|
Yeah it's never profitable.. just exposure towards a certain market. Which is why it's kinda weird for so many to pull out now, if the TV figures are still good, which they apparently are, the exposure hasn't changed for them. The smaller teams miss the play-off exposure maybe but they are playing in Proleague constantly the rest of the time, not to mention individual players representing teams in OSL/MSL. It's kinda wrong with them to be pulling out and messing with many players livelihoods.
Sponsors should be under long-term contracts and re-negotiate a lot earlier if they don't intend to keep the teams running, if KeSPA knew a season in advance it could actually be planned for a lot better.
Ontopic, for SC2 this could be an issue in the future too. There's no governing body like KeSPA so a sponsor pulling out unexpectedly could be even worse for those players with no drafting or anything in place for free agents. I suppose any skilled enough player will always find some team to take them on even if it's for severely reduced or no salary, but that's hardly good. BW was always the example to point to of eSports running correctly long-term, if it's no longer the case what does it show to potential future sponsors? Unfortunately, if Blizzard had made an agreement with KeSPA in the first place then both might be running alongside each other right now in a system that strengthened both game's proscenes... now it's potentially harmed both.
|
Renter's insurance is probably only like 300-500/yr.
I overestimated.
|
7 people getting paid 25k/yr? I'd like to be on your team.
|
On August 30 2011 16:14 frequency wrote:
7 people getting paid 25k/yr? I'd like to be on your team.
So I'm not crazy to think that's a high number for SC2, despite it being a relatively low number given the opportunity cost/risk!
|
On August 30 2011 16:14 frequency wrote:
7 people getting paid 25k/yr? I'd like to be on your team.
really? i thought that was rather low...
|
And then you just have to ask yourself where EG gets their money from.
|
On August 30 2011 16:38 AnxiousHippo wrote:
And then you just have to ask yourself where EG gets their money from.
Sponsors, they are continually marketing themselves and working with their sponsors.
|
I think lots of teams have their players pay a cut to them if they win (like 10% or less), with a GSL each month more or less and a few team leagues running in between (teams probably take most of the money from these) if you had a team like SlayerS you would end up with from one GSL run (this current once since only 1 player is left)
Ganzi is 1st place code A
Taeja Ro8 code A
Yugioh Ro16 Code A
Boxer Ro32 ( ) Code A
Ryung Ro8+ Code S
MMA Ro16 Code S
Coca Ro32 Code S
Alicia Ro32 Code S
If you took 10% of their winnings you would end up with at least (could go up or down dramatically depending on Ryung) 8,270,000 won, which is about $7,773 per month or about $93k a year. This is how most of the Korean teams run IIRC and how many like IM were able to stay afloat without ANY sponsors. Obviously I don't have the EXACT numbers and this is speculation, but it seems to work that way, The unfortunate aspect is that you NEED to have tip top caliber players to make that money off that model which is probably why teams like fOu were running into dire straights.
Just something to consider as part of your model.
|
Glad someone is start to take a serious look at the financial side of eSports. Here's some refined numbers:
Player salary: Vast majority of teams pay token salaries, if at all, to their players. This is doubly true for Korea. Your IdrAs and HuKs can be counted in two hands, worldwide, that actually makes wages acceptable in any other industry.
Travel and team cut: The industry standard is 30% (Korea is a mystery to me, especially considering Puma was not contracted when he won NASL's $50k). This number is not intended as significant source of revenue, but more as a way to keep travel budget in check.
Thus, compared with what your expectations of a "proper way" to run teams, vast majority runs on a budget a magnitude lower than your expense numbers. From what I can tell, though, your revenue numbers are much closer to the mark, even if still on the high side.
disclaimer: I do not run a team. My numbers are unsourced and unsubstantiated. However, i have had a reputation for good guessimation of numbers (or at least I think I do).
|
On August 30 2011 16:59 Primadog wrote:
Glad someone is start to take a serious look at the financial side of eSports. Here's some refined numbers:
Player salary: Vast majority of teams pay token salaries, if at all, to their players. This is doubly true for Korea. Your IdrAs and HuKs can be counted in two hands, worldwide, that actually makes wages acceptable in any other industry.
Travel and team cut: The industry standard is 30% (Korea is a mystery to me, especially considering Puma was not contracted when he won NASL's $50k). This number is not intended as significant source of revenue, but more as a way to keep travel budget in check.
Thus, compared with what your expectations of a "proper way" to run teams, vast majority runs on a budget a magnitude lower than your expense numbers. From what I can tell, though, your revenue numbers are much closer to the mark, even if still on the high side.
disclaimer: I do not run a team. My numbers are unsourced and unsubstantiated. However, i have had a reputation for good guessimation of numbers (or at least I think I do).
To be more precise, my definition of "proper way" is not so much how things "should" be done but rather how much things would cost if progamers were paid as least as well as grad students are, and grad students aren't paid much at all.
|
I agree with you about the grad student pay and believe this is the reason why contracts are not public -- they're simply sad and not worth of note. When you can't even beat a grad student stipend, no one will take you seriously.
|
On August 30 2011 16:08 EtherealDeath wrote:Show nested quote +On August 30 2011 16:03 Gao Xi wrote:
I think corporations might have figured out that it is cheaper to sponsor a league like GSL, then it is for a team. Since it accomplishes the same thing (advertising) for a lesser cost? But I guess if you sponsor a successful team it would be better since you'd get more advertising. But that is sort of a double-edged sword.
Does that the reason why sony/coca cola/pepsi sponsor the GSL instead of teams?
But i guess its the total opposite in the west.
Yea, that could be part of the reasoning. Part of the income problem I think lies in the broadcasting rights. There is no such thing really as charging for the broadcasting rights to a team, which I think happens indirectly in the NBA, in that teams get some share from the league of the general broadcasting rights package that is bought by some cable company. Then there is also the arena, which has sold tickets. Neither of these two really translate over to SC2.
I wonder if with the Proleague if the teams get broadcasting monies. In the big 4 sport leagues here in the US teams survive off of the media money sharing.
I think that broadcasting rights could end up happening but we would need one big team league like the proleague in Korea...otherwise it would not be feasible. I'm really tired so hopefully this made sense.
|
On August 30 2011 16:19 EtherealDeath wrote:Show nested quote +On August 30 2011 16:14 frequency wrote:
7 people getting paid 25k/yr? I'd like to be on your team. So I'm not crazy to think that's a high number for SC2, despite it being a relatively low number given the opportunity cost/risk!
I think 25k is quite alot. I think only the top foreign pro players at the top of their teams and on the best teams or with individual sponsors (mouz, fnatic, eg, ttesports) will get anywhere near that much. But players such as idra/puma probably get a bit more than that and huk, Grubby would get considerably more. And the lesser players on those teams such as incontrol or LZ are probably in the lower bracket described below and are more like likely to get most of their earnings from coaching and doing appearances for their sponsors.
I think what actually happens is that most "pro" teams that aren't that wealthy but are still quite strong, ie liquid, mtw, dignitas, complexity, probably will pay their players anywhere from 5-15k as a base salary, but then will give them plenty of travel opportunitys and let them keep their winnings. If a player does extraordinarily well like huk they might get another offer before their contract is over.
What I am really curious about is FXO as they seem to have the most pro/fulltime players and the most housing with 2 locations, so unlike other foreigner teams they actually can pay for living expenses for their players and I am curious if that affects their salarys compared to other teams.
|
When I win Lotto I will create a pro team
|
On August 30 2011 17:59 Bartiemus wrote:
When I win Lotto I will create a pro team
haha would be fun to set up a starcraft-player based world-wide lotto syndicate with the aim to make a team.
|
If it helps, I'll throw out the fact that they're probably making ~$15-20 profit per t-shirt. I ran a website for competitive Pump it Up players (Korean DDR, basically) for a few years and paid for it by selling tshirts to the user base. It was a crazy simple design, I really wish I remembered what site it was but it ended up being incredibly good quality and they offered lower prices based on how many shirts I ordered at a time. The biggest order I had was for maybe 60 shirts with a black and white design and including shipping I maybe paid $6 each for them. Even with teams like EG selling color shirts, with the volume they're selling they can't be paying more than $7-8 each so there's plenty of profit to be made just from that.
|
I thought it was a plan to create Liquid Oz. I'm super disappointed.
Also, i don't think most player gets 25K/year. Less known players get as little as 400 to 500 dollars per month
|
On August 30 2011 20:46 legaton wrote:
I thought it was a plan to create Liquid Oz. I'm super disappointed.
Also, i don't think most player gets 25K/year. Less known players get as little as 400 to 500 dollars per month
AFAIK most players don't even get any money at all. It all has to come from their own pocket (i.e. streaming/coaching).
I think many aspiring or lower ranked progamers would already be happy with a free teamhouse, a PC, $500 "pocket money", free food and 90% of whatever they earn in tournaments.
That would basically reduce the costs of 6 players to $36000 in salaries, ~$6000 in food and around the same $6000 for new PCs every year, replacement for broken parts, etc.
You don't really need a manager for such a small team and you can appoint the most reliable player as a coach to take care of most of the basic matters.
Take a house in some suburb for ~$1000 a month and you end up with a total of $60000 a year or with a safety margin, ~$70000.
This doesn't factor in travel, but that is hard to calculate as it depends a lot on where the team is located, where tournaments are, how many players you think are strong enough to compete, etc.
Yes, for a high-end team, you need a lot more money but you also get a lot more and better sponsors. To start a team of talented but newer players, you don't really need that much money.
|
On August 31 2011 00:46 Morfildur wrote:Show nested quote +On August 30 2011 20:46 legaton wrote:
I thought it was a plan to create Liquid Oz. I'm super disappointed.
Also, i don't think most player gets 25K/year. Less known players get as little as 400 to 500 dollars per month AFAIK most players don't even get any money at all. It all has to come from their own pocket (i.e. streaming/coaching). I think many aspiring or lower ranked progamers would already be happy with a free teamhouse, a PC, $500 "pocket money", free food and 90% of whatever they earn in tournaments. That would basically reduce the costs of 6 players to $36000 in salaries, ~$6000 in food and around the same $6000 for new PCs every year, replacement for broken parts, etc. You don't really need a manager for such a small team and you can appoint the most reliable player as a coach to take care of most of the basic matters. Take a house in some suburb for ~$1000 a month and you end up with a total of $60000 a year or with a safety margin, ~$70000. This doesn't factor in travel, but that is hard to calculate as it depends a lot on where the team is located, where tournaments are, how many players you think are strong enough to compete, etc. Yes, for a high-end team, you need a lot more money but you also get a lot more and better sponsors. To start a team of talented but newer players, you don't really need that much money.
Hmm so that could feasibly reduce costs to 50% of what I guesstimated using grad student pay levels, so about $120k, rounding down a bit. I wonder how close that is to the actual figures for the most well off/known teams.
|
Top 10 players in Europe make somewhere between €8 000 - 15 000 per year from their teams, add streaming income and tournament winnings income on top of that and that's what most of them live off.
Unfortunately no Bahamas beach properties yet 
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
