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On July 12 2011 12:12 matjlav wrote:Show nested quote +On July 12 2011 11:58 Sgany wrote:On July 12 2011 11:56 n.DieJokes wrote:On July 12 2011 11:55 Sgany wrote:On July 12 2011 11:46 n.DieJokes wrote:Mostly C's? I don't want to put you down or anything but getting into an Ivy is hard for someone with a perfect record. Being already 17 I would say you'd have a better chance (assuming you work as fanatically hard as you say you will) transferring in (which is in of itself absurdly difficult). It may be your dream now but without some sort of incredible hook it'd be foolish to get your hopes up. + Show Spoiler +Sorry :/ I got canned from the Ivies last year and I spent my whole summer killing myself over it, I don't want you to do the same. Due to different education systems I cannot see the Cs effecting my that much due to it basicly my "middle school" grades. Really? How old will you be when you plan to attend college? I had a gap year due to the awkward time I moved country so I will be 19. We only have two years of what can be called High school. As a general question are Ivy Graduate schools less exclusive compared to the undergrade college? I don't know about business, but in science, graduate school in general is much more exclusive than undergrad (acceptance rates for all grad schools are typically <20%, and that's among the students who had the drive to apply to grad school). But, as others have said, you can prove yourself to graduate schools at pretty much any half-decent school you go to.
Honestly, I hate to crush your dreams, but if you have mostly C's and a couple of B's, you pretty much have no chance of getting into an Ivy League. Being the first person to go to college in your family will help, but you have to realize that a >3.5 GPA is pretty much a prerequisite to get into any Ivy League school. Oxbridge/HYPSM generally will only accept someone with straight A's (unless you're a minority). I really don't think there's much you can do to make up for a C record with few extracurriculars.Honestly, at this point, I wouldn't even waste my money ($70-80 per app) applying to top-tier schools if I were you. Set your sights on a solid mid-tier school and work your ass off once you get there. Go to grad school after that if you get good results. Most importantly, I think that your determination to just get into Ivy Leagues or Oxbridge is quite short sighted. It's much more important that you go somewhere that you like.
As I said that will most likely not matter at all, due to the different education systems those exams are basicly to say if you can continue your education to a higher level in the UK and Ireland, which I was able to do easily. The reason I done so bad was that I went to a bad school and the system in the UK means that there is two test tiers and I was forced to do the lower papers as the teachers could not teach the higher tier stuff to the class. I got 90%+ in everything if not 100%
I am yet to do any of the major exams.
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Can you explain the Irish grading system a bit? Specifically the high school - not sure why middle school grades are even mentioned tbh as U.S. schools don't look at that at all. What's the 635 points thing? How does it equate to GPA in U.S. (if you know that system).
Also, you should expect to have perfect 800 in all your SAT II subjects, very average students can get 800 on SAT II with moderate ease, good students can get them in their sleep (especially if they also took the AP course/test of the same subject). And for SAT, depending on your definition of "near perfect" that's a good goal, but honestly anything above 2300 is good enough for ivy leagues.
Oh, also, don't worry so much. Even if you don't get into a a great school you can always transfer in second year, lots of people do it. Don't make it sound like there's one shot to graduate from a top school.
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On July 12 2011 12:28 Count9 wrote:
Can you explain the Irish grading system a bit? Specifically the high school - not sure why middle school grades are even mentioned tbh as U.S. schools don't look at that at all. What's the 635 points thing? How does it equate to GPA in U.S. (if you know that system).
Also, you should expect to have perfect 800 in all your SAT II subjects, very average students can get 800 on SAT II with moderate ease, good students can get them in their sleep (especially if they also took the AP course/test of the same subject). And for SAT, depending on your definition of "near perfect" that's a good goal, but honestly anything above 2300 is good enough for ivy leagues.
Oh, also, don't worry so much. Even if you don't get into a a great school you can always transfer in second year, lots of people do it. Don't make it sound like there's one shot to graduate from a top school.
Basicly we do it like this
First 7 years are your junior years
Next 5 are your middle years (These are the exams I did bad on)
Next 2 are your final years
You get points for each grade you get the max being 625 now, it just went up from 600. It means getting A1 = A+ in everything. So basicly a perfect GPA.
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On July 12 2011 12:36 Sgany wrote:
Basicly we do it like this
First 7 years are your junior years
Next 5 are your middle years (These are the exams I did bad on)
Next 2 are your final years
You get points for each grade you get the max being 625 now, it just went up from 600. It means getting A1 = A+ in everything. So basicly a perfect GPA.
Sorry I'm not adding anything but I'm curious haha. If you already got a bunch of C's and only a few B's how is it possible for you to still achieve the max of 625?
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On July 12 2011 12:07 RedJustice wrote:Columbia (every transfer student I know here at Penn came from Columbia cause they hated it and said it was a depressing campus. Not sure how the suicide rates compare, but I seem to recall news articles from time to time about students committing suicide there.)
What is this, lol. Columbia has one of the most elegant campuses out there, not to mention being situated within Manhattan.
I'm not gonna talk about UPenn, because everyone knows how awkward the rest of the city is around it =P.
I think you're mistaking Columbia for Cornell, where there was a string of suicides not long ago.
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My school's valedictorian got rejected from Harvard and Yale with a 4.7 GPA, 2400 SATs, all 5s in ~20 APs, and a ridiculous number of extracurriculars.
Moral of the story: don't get your hopes up, aim for something you have a decent shot with (lets be honest, your grades aren't anywhere close to where they need to be). Since you're living in the UK you would probably be better off saving money then going somewhere really good for graduate school.
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Wow. I feel like I could have written your post 20 years ago. I too was fixated on going to a "top" university. I had middling grades and pretty much perfect board scores. Needless to say I didn't get in.
You should really broaden your search for the right school. Think more about what you want to study and the kind of environment that works for you (big? small? structured? unstructured?). You want to go to b-school? There are schools with better econ departments than any of the ones you mentioned. Do you thrive on personal attention and small class size? You won't find it any of those schools. Are you the kind of person that succeeds in a structured environment? Then maybe look for a school with a strong core curriculum. Or are you a self-starter? Then look for a school with a reputation for fostering independent studies.
I went on to my "safety" school--the University of Chicago, which, as it happens, gave me a better education than I would have received at Harvard. I can verify that I think because I went on to law school at Harvard after graduating with highest honors from Chicago. I was lucky--I blindly stumbled onto a place, Chicago, that was probably perfect for me.
So, my advice to you is apply to the Ivys so you don't go the rest of your life wondering about it, but put some serious effort into identifying some reachable schools that offer you the kind of education you want. Feel free to PM me if you want any further advice about American colleges.
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here's a bit of advice: accept the fact that you're not going to get in. i got rejected from UC berkley and UCLA despite having 2400 SAT, 800 on math sat2, 3.8ish gpa; as for MIT, lol. even if you don't have amazing grades (which you don't), you have to stand out from the thousands of other applicants with amazing grades. you need to have fucking good extracurriculars where you're someone who mattered in stuff like FBLA, mock UN, et cetera.
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Stanford is the worst, unless you're amazing at sports and have excellent grades, you're not getting in. Most of the American schools you choose have extremely low acceptance rates, even if you did well on your academic studies, there is barely any chance of you getting in.
Not to destroy your dreams but thats reality. You should not only focus on academic achievements but also an array of ECs. Lets face it once you get to college, you then realise how straight forward and simple high school was.
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On July 12 2011 12:07 RedJustice wrote:Lol Harvard is Harvard? Bad reason to go there.  I have not attended school there, so I am sure I am no authority. However, my ex went to MIT (which is rather close to Harvard), so I have met quite a few kids from there. My impression of them are spoiled rich kids being pampered by an institution more interested in keeping money families around than encouraging a solid academic environment. Traditionally they do accept a great deal of legacies (and then some token poor smart kids). I suppose it depends on the kind of person you are, but if you are looking for a happy environment that is academically focused with smart-but-still-normal people, I would recommend against Harvard (for reasons listed above; also if you are seriously interested in business, Wharton is better than Harvard) Columbia (every transfer student I know here at Penn came from Columbia cause they hated it and said it was a depressing campus. Not sure how the suicide rates compare, but I seem to recall news articles from time to time about students committing suicide there.) Yale (similar reasons to Harvard, though a bit less)
Err I go to Yale and it's a pretty nice place. Of course there are rich kids, but there are also many smart and nice people. There are lots of great professors at these universities and if you're really into a subject they can be a great resource. I don't know much about Harvard or Columbia but I would advise against making a sweeping judgment based on a few people you met from there.
Wharton is obviously great if you're set on doing business, but as you surely know it's not easy to get in =p
"Harvard is Harvard" is a pretty common reason why people go there, which is fine since people are attracted to prestige. However, to get the most out of it you probably need to have some clear strengths or goals.
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Alright, so I can't really say much with respect to undergrad at ivy league/top tier schools because I didn't go - but I would guess networking/exposure etc. are some of the biggest pros.
In terms of graduate school (sciences, specifically chemistry/biochemistry) I learned that people seem to be accepted from everyhwere. I guess the issue comes down to graduate schools looking for the best and thus it's probably much better to be the top student in some sub-par Canadian university (me, now at harvard) vs. anything less than like top 5 in an ivy. I noted during my graduate interviews that there were actually very few students from ivy league/top tier schools and they definetely didn't seem as over-represented as I had expected. So this is definetely something to consider if you are planning to go onto graduate school. Your chances of being the best student @ harvard or stanford are so much slimmer than at a less prestigious university. That being said this is probably field variable, and I would guess going to say medschool it might help. Business I have no idea - maybe the networking/contacts etc. help.
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Some people here had some very good ideas.
If you plan to go to graduate school, then any reasonably high ranked public school will do.
I am not sure about your situation at UK, but here at Toronto, only one friend of mine went to MIT, rest stayed in Ontario (University of Toronto, University of Waterloo, etc.). Many of them then got into Harvard, CMU, NYU, etc. for graduate school. I am sure their future is very bright, and debt-free.
So yea, if you cannot afford a top private school, just go to a good public school that is near your home. You can spend an extra 1-2 year to get a graduate degree from a top private school later on - which will very likely to be funded by the department.
On July 12 2011 13:24 TOloseGT wrote:Show nested quote +On July 12 2011 12:07 RedJustice wrote:Columbia (every transfer student I know here at Penn came from Columbia cause they hated it and said it was a depressing campus. Not sure how the suicide rates compare, but I seem to recall news articles from time to time about students committing suicide there.) What is this, lol. Columbia has one of the most elegant campuses out there, not to mention being situated within Manhattan. I'm not gonna talk about UPenn, because everyone knows how awkward the rest of the city is around it =P. I think you're mistaking Columbia for Cornell, where there was a string of suicides not long ago.
I am not sure. I visited Columbia before, it was not that impressive. It wasn't as nice as University of Michigan, but certainly better than NYU.
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16957 Posts
I really don't like Columbia's campus ._.
(though to be fair, I've never actually done any campus tours in my life. It's just from visiting friends who go there <_<)
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On July 12 2011 14:19 Empyrean wrote:
I really don't like Columbia's campus ._.
(though to be fair, I've never actually done any campus tours in my life. It's just from visiting friends who go there <_<)
I've been to a few. Columbia is not bad, but it's really small, making it not that impressive.
It's still better than NYU, Hopkins, and CMU.
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I had similar aspirations 4 years ago and I'd like to tell you what I wish I knew back then: really focus on the personal essays. With my college application experience (Harvard-econ=no, Princeton-econ=no, Yale-econ=no, Wharton=no, MIT Sloan=no, NYU Stern=yes, and Cornell-engineering because in this case their engineering program was that much better than their business school, imo=yes), I would say that was the deciding factor (possibly also teacher recs). Grade-wise and SAT-wise, I was set, extracurrics were competitive, but in retrospect, I don't think I chose the right topics for my essays and they probably blended into all the other mind-numbing essays application offices have to read.
If you have good essays, you can get into Ivys/honorary Ivys even with average grades. I recall one guy at my high school who got into MIT with a 3.2 gpa, but radiated intelligence; grades just weren't that important to him. There's always people like that and schools know it; essays are where you can convey that in an application. With what you've said about your background (first to aspire to graduate from college, self-motivated), you have some promising, above-average material. You may think it's a bit sappy and an easy way out (at least, that's what I thought before, unfortunately) but it gets results.
Might help, might stress you out: a forum I remember many kids in my high school liked to use was collegeconfidential.com--basically this thread, extended to an entire site.
More business-school related advice: the Ivys are good but for a post-school job, internships are more important. If you're interested in working for a financial firm, yes, there are a lot of kids from UPenn, but there's also always a few kids from state schools. Just network and develop your work experience, even part-time during the semester if you can. Do consider the location of your school. (Ultimately I picked Stern over Cornell and, having since graduated with job security, I don't regret it.)
Summary: good grades/ec activities help, but the essay is what actually makes the decision. And wherever you end up going, look for good internships because in the end, school is just a means to an end. Hope this helps, feel free to PM, and good luck!
(Okay I have to defend NYU a little bit--it's location cannot be beat. I haven't even been to Columbia yet and just hearing about fellow interns' 45 min. commutes depresses me.)
Edit: Also you can try to apply as 'undeclared' to increase your chances, and then declare/transfer internally later. Wish I thought of that too.
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Hi, I'm really really curious, you say you're interested in business related stuff and looking for funding and whatnot from Harvard and other Ivy league unis, but why aren't you considering LSE? They have really amazing economics and business related professors and they have a really nice set up support scheme.
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United States42250 Posts
On July 12 2011 12:53 Demoninja wrote:Show nested quote +On July 12 2011 12:36 Sgany wrote:
Basicly we do it like this
First 7 years are your junior years
Next 5 are your middle years (These are the exams I did bad on)
Next 2 are your final years
You get points for each grade you get the max being 625 now, it just went up from 600. It means getting A1 = A+ in everything. So basicly a perfect GPA.
Sorry I'm not adding anything but I'm curious haha. If you already got a bunch of C's and only a few B's how is it possible for you to still achieve the max of 625?
As he explained the 5 middle year exams only count to see if you can do the final 2 years (if you can't you're stuck with them though). If you get to do the final 2 years then nobody cares what you got on the previous ones, they're obsolete.
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On July 12 2011 14:46 twelveapm wrote:
I had similar aspirations 4 years ago and I'd like to tell you what I wish I knew back then: really focus on the personal essays. With my college application experience (Harvard-econ=no, Princeton-econ=no, Yale-econ=no, Wharton=no, MIT Sloan=no, NYU Stern=yes, and Cornell-engineering because in this case their engineering program was that much better than their business school, imo=yes), I would say that was the deciding factor (possibly also teacher recs). Grade-wise and SAT-wise, I was set, extracurrics were competitive, but in retrospect, I don't think I chose the right topics for my essays and they probably blended into all the other mind-numbing essays application offices have to read.
If you have good essays, you can get into Ivys/honorary Ivys even with average grades. I recall one guy at my high school who got into MIT with a 3.2 gpa, but radiated intelligence; grades just weren't that important to him. There's always people like that and schools know it; essays are where you can convey that in an application. With what you've said about your background (first to aspire to graduate from college, self-motivated), you have some promising, above-average material. You may think it's a bit sappy and an easy way out (at least, that's what I thought before, unfortunately) but it gets results.
Might help, might stress you out: a forum I remember many kids in my high school liked to use was collegeconfidential.com--basically this thread, extended to an entire site.
More business-school related advice: the Ivys are good but for a post-school job, internships are more important. If you're interested in working for a financial firm, yes, there are a lot of kids from UPenn, but there's also always a few kids from state schools. Just network and develop your work experience, even part-time during the semester if you can. Do consider the location of your school. (Ultimately I picked Stern over Cornell and, having since graduated with job security, I don't regret it.)
Summary: good grades/ec activities help, but the essay is what actually makes the decision. And wherever you end up going, look for good internships because in the end, school is just a means to an end. Hope this helps, feel free to PM, and good luck!
(Okay I have to defend NYU a little bit--it's location cannot be beat. I haven't even been to Columbia yet and just hearing about fellow interns' 45 min. commutes depresses me.)
Edit: Also you can try to apply as 'undeclared' to increase your chances, and then declare/transfer internally later. Wish I thought of that too.
Now when I am not studying I will just spend all my time trying to pre-write my essay :D
Thank you too everyone who has commented, it has been a great help 
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Where does the extra 35 points from? I didn't realise they'd changed the layout.
If you can max out your exam results and you write a decent personal statement you should have no problem getting into Oxbridge. I got given a conditional offer which was pretty easy, A1 in maths, Physics and Applied Maths. I ended up turning it down and going to Trinity instead however.
As for Ivy League I have no idea, but you seem to have gotten decent advice from other people
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the Dagon Knight4002 Posts
On July 12 2011 20:26 deconduo wrote:
Where does the extra 35 points from? I didn't realise they'd changed the layout.
I believe he is including the bonus offered by some colleges for those who achieve high results in both honours maths and applied maths, though there could be some other numerical witchcraft at work here that I'm not aware of
On July 12 2011 12:17 Sgany wrote:
The reason I done so bad was that I went to a bad school and the system in the UK means that there is two test tiers and I was forced to do the lower papers as the teachers could not teach the higher tier stuff to the class.
So, if I'm understanding this correctly, you were forced to do easier papers and you still managed to score poorly?
[You mean to say "did" so "badly" here]
On July 12 2011 12:36 Sgany wrote:
Basicly we do it like this
On July 12 2011 11:55 Sgany wrote:
Due to different education systems I cannot see the Cs effecting my that much due to it basicly my "middle school" grades.
On July 12 2011 11:07 Sgany wrote:
For the last year I have been fixated with going into an Ivy League College (or Stanford) or going to Cambridge or Oxford in my native UK.
To start of I am 17 year old male from an average family in the UnitedKingdom ... I moreless plan to achieve 635 points total which is the highest amount of points you can earn in the Irish education system. I am also planning to sit SAT and two SAT IIs, achieving near max marks in all of them hopefully. I know this sounds arrogant to say I am going to get the highest marks possible but it what I feel I need to do, and I am going to invest the time needed to do so, even if that means rarely leaving my room.
[deletia]
I have been getting very bad paranoia if I fail to get into one of these universities that I will be unable to forget about it as it is what I see as my main goal in life. My parents honestly do not seem to care at all, moreless calling me stupid for attempting to get into any of these universities.
As someone who has sat an Irish leaving certificate, I have to ask: Do you worry that your issues with English writing might cost you your 635 points? Marks are deducted for poor grammar, spelling and punctuation.
This isn't meant to be inflammatory, just a question.
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