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On July 13 2011 05:26 BluePanther wrote:
Also, the whole idea of "get into the best school you can" is absolutely retarded. Jobs are all about connections.
Good schools bring you good connections...
Also, if your area of study isn't standardized across all schools (like some masters programs), then the quality of your professors and the program is important as well.
Good school isn't always most important though. I know in Law (edit: in Canada) the school that is closest to where you want to practice law is generally speaking the best choice, as it affords you the opportunity to network that wouldn't exist in a long-distance education scenario.
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On July 13 2011 07:37 GoDLy MD wrote:Show nested quote +On July 13 2011 07:30 MoonfireSpam wrote:
Pretty much my whole family has been told that without a line of A*'s for GCSE behind your Oxbridge application or something seriously shit-hot in the extra-curricular department it will be very difficult, not impossible though. That said, you get 6 UCAS choices so there's really no harm in trying anyway.
However UCL / Imperial / KCL / LSE would be worth a shot, they are all really pretty equal academically although UCL probably has the most diverse crowd being more into arts and humanities than the other 3. I personally can't see it making a huge difference job wise (although someone in business can fell free to correct me).
The best extracurricular thing you could probably do based on my experice from Medicine and my sisters from Economics & Architecture is to get some kind of experience in what you are going to study. Then you can genuinely talk about why you think it's awesome, what you have done etc etc.
edit: I cannot say how the UK Golden Triangle universities compare to the US Ivy League on a global scale. Should be fairly even though and I'm curious to know.
Please don't compare kings to Imperial/UCL/LSE...the students of the latter would be gravely offended. For medicine at least, kings is nowhere near Imperial/UCL.
Medicine as far as I thought was not really affected by your undergrad school (barring personal bias) at any level of work or am I mis informed?
Anyways, I don't really hang out with people that think that way, they tend to be less fun than other folks 
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Also, I am not sure why OP does not want any other universities in UK. In my opinion (from someone in North America), UCL, Nottingham, Edinburgh, Glasgow, and LSE are awesome schools... I don't look down on them at all. If you want to go to professional schools or graduate schools after your undergraduate degree, these schools will definitely pave your way there.
Considering your family is considerably poor, I think a postgraduate degree will do you good. With that in mind, just attend a reasonably good public university and avoid getting in debt. Your worth will probably come from your postgraduate education anyways.
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On July 13 2011 08:18 Sufficiency wrote:
Also, I am not sure why OP does not want any other universities in UK. In my opinion (from someone in North America), UCL, Nottingham, Edinburgh, Glasgow, and LSE are awesome schools... I don't look down on them at all. If you want to go to professional schools or graduate schools after your undergraduate degree, these schools will definitely pave your way there.
Considering your family is considerably poor, I think a postgraduate degree will do you good. With that in mind, just attend a reasonably good public university and avoid getting in debt. Your worth will probably come from your postgraduate education anyways.
I'm not poor. I would love to attend one of the many outstanding London universities without a doubt and would happily aim for them, if my chances at Ivy/Oxbridge are so bad I will just aim for LSE, UCL, etc and then hope to go to Oxbridge/Ivy with outstanding graduate results. (I have never really been interested in going to Scotland to exam, and would prefer to be in a capital city or a campus near a massive city.) Out of my own pocket I could pay for myself to go to any UK university.
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On July 13 2011 08:22 Sgany wrote:Show nested quote +On July 13 2011 08:18 Sufficiency wrote:
Also, I am not sure why OP does not want any other universities in UK. In my opinion (from someone in North America), UCL, Nottingham, Edinburgh, Glasgow, and LSE are awesome schools... I don't look down on them at all. If you want to go to professional schools or graduate schools after your undergraduate degree, these schools will definitely pave your way there.
Considering your family is considerably poor, I think a postgraduate degree will do you good. With that in mind, just attend a reasonably good public university and avoid getting in debt. Your worth will probably come from your postgraduate education anyways. I'm not poor. I would love to attend one of the many outstanding London universities without a doubt and would happily aim for them, if my chances at Ivy/Oxbridge are so bad I will just aim for LSE, UCL, etc and then hope to go to Oxbridge/Ivy with outstanding graduate results. (I have never really been interested in going to Scotland to exam, and would prefer to be in a capital city or a campus near a massive city.) Out of my own pocket I could pay for myself to go to any UK university.
Sorry I may have understood. You said your parents don't want to shell out a single penny for you. In that case, it would be terribly hard for you to support yourself in the US without any kinds of scholarships... since you will be looking at about 30k-60k per year USD for tuition alone (for international). A Canadian school will cost about 10k-20k per year for tuition alone (for international).
My opinion is that shelling out that much money for undergraduate is not worth it (shelling that much for professional school, however, may be worth it). So yes, it seems to me that you should focus on getting into any reasonably good college that won't cost an arm and a leg, then consider graduate school as you go along.
Furthermore, since you are still in high school, it's difficult to say right now what you want to do now is what you want to do in the future. It's quite common for people to switch major in their undergrad. You may also discover new things, etc.
Anyways good luck. If I were you, I'd just make sure I at least get into a mid-high tier public school in the UK.
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United States10774 Posts
meh, you need to grow up. i chose my school based on actually visiting them and matching it with what i want to do with life. blindly choosing these schools ahead of time seems pointless to me. (it is also useless to set meaningless goals, such as getting to harvard business school, without even thinking about why you would want to or realizing what it would take to get there.) to me, it seems like you are obsessed with going to these schools just for the sake of doing so, without even thinking about why.
keep in mind that what you do at the school (regardless of its ranking on us news) matters so much more than the brand name. some of my close friends went to prestigious universities around the country yet have failed to make a use of that education because they thought attending those universities solved everything. please think practically and take a second to ponder what and why you want it. and to let you know that im not bitter about this ranking business, i go to a top 10 u.s. school for what it's worth.
On July 12 2011 11:48 RedJustice wrote:I have not attended school there, so I am sure I am no authority. However, my ex went to MIT (which is rather close to Harvard), so I have met quite a few kids from there. My impression of them are spoiled rich kids being pampered by an institution more interested in keeping money families around than encouraging a solid academic environment. Traditionally they do accept a great deal of legacies (and then some token poor smart kids).
I suppose it depends on the kind of person you are, but if you are looking for a happy environment that is academically focused with smart-but-still-normal people, I would recommend against
Harvard (for reasons listed above; also if you are seriously interested in business, Wharton is better than Harvard)
Columbia (every transfer student I know here at Penn came from Columbia cause they hated it and said it was a depressing campus. Not sure how the suicide rates compare, but I seem to recall news articles from time to time about students committing suicide there.)
Yale (similar reasons to Harvard, though a bit less)
lol is this serious? don't listen to bullshit advice like this. i thought by the time you got to college you would be wise enough to not say empty statements about schools based on unsubstantial "evidence."
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On July 13 2011 08:22 Sgany wrote:Show nested quote +On July 13 2011 08:18 Sufficiency wrote:
Also, I am not sure why OP does not want any other universities in UK. In my opinion (from someone in North America), UCL, Nottingham, Edinburgh, Glasgow, and LSE are awesome schools... I don't look down on them at all. If you want to go to professional schools or graduate schools after your undergraduate degree, these schools will definitely pave your way there.
Considering your family is considerably poor, I think a postgraduate degree will do you good. With that in mind, just attend a reasonably good public university and avoid getting in debt. Your worth will probably come from your postgraduate education anyways. I'm not poor. I would love to attend one of the many outstanding London universities without a doubt and would happily aim for them, if my chances at Ivy/Oxbridge are so bad I will just aim for LSE, UCL, etc and then hope to go to Oxbridge/Ivy with outstanding graduate results. (I have never really been interested in going to Scotland to exam, and would prefer to be in a capital city or a campus near a massive city.) Out of my own pocket I could pay for myself to go to any UK university.
the most important thing is are you actually getting the results required to get you even into LSE, UCL etc just saying it doesnt matter it is all about hard work and saying that you'll get outstanding graduate results and go later when you havent even done well at the easiest level of education in the UK so step up your work and stop living a fantasy
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On July 13 2011 09:25 Telebear wrote:Show nested quote +On July 13 2011 08:22 Sgany wrote:On July 13 2011 08:18 Sufficiency wrote:
Also, I am not sure why OP does not want any other universities in UK. In my opinion (from someone in North America), UCL, Nottingham, Edinburgh, Glasgow, and LSE are awesome schools... I don't look down on them at all. If you want to go to professional schools or graduate schools after your undergraduate degree, these schools will definitely pave your way there.
Considering your family is considerably poor, I think a postgraduate degree will do you good. With that in mind, just attend a reasonably good public university and avoid getting in debt. Your worth will probably come from your postgraduate education anyways. I'm not poor. I would love to attend one of the many outstanding London universities without a doubt and would happily aim for them, if my chances at Ivy/Oxbridge are so bad I will just aim for LSE, UCL, etc and then hope to go to Oxbridge/Ivy with outstanding graduate results. (I have never really been interested in going to Scotland to exam, and would prefer to be in a capital city or a campus near a massive city.) Out of my own pocket I could pay for myself to go to any UK university. the most important thing is are you actually getting the results required to get you even into LSE, UCL etc just saying it doesnt matter it is all about hard work and saying that you'll get outstanding graduate results and go later when you havent even done well at the easiest level of education in the UK so step up your work and stop living a fantasy
I'll get the grades I need for any university in the UK you can hold me to that, come back to me in 2hours and ask if I have and I will. *I have told too many people that I will get the highest possible to not get the highest possible*
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Pinning your hopes on getting into a Top X school is just asking for disappointment. College admissions are so incredibly random - they have to sift through so many applicants that they have to reject high quality candidates. In most professions, the school you went to isn't relevant (as long as it's a decent college/university), and that's especially true after you get your first job.
I think for some professions it might matter some (grad schools, law, medicine), but you will be *way* happier if you find a school you know you'll be happy at.
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As some people have already stated: It's far more important to what graduate school you go than to what undergrad. So you might consider going to a decent but affordable university first and switching to some high profile university for your masters.
Also:
On July 13 2011 10:34 Bortlett wrote:
Pinning your hopes on getting into a Top X school is just asking for disappointment. College admissions are so incredibly random - they have to sift through so many applicants that they have to reject high quality candidates. In most professions, the school you went to isn't relevant (as long as it's a decent college/university), and that's especially true after you get your first job.
I think for some professions it might matter some (grad schools, law, medicine), but you will be *way* happier if you find a school you know you'll be happy at.
A friend of mine from Bulgaria applied to MIT, CalTech and a few other top universities in the states. He had basically perfect grades from high school (which was arguably the top Bulgarian high school (if this matters at all)), was on the Bulgarian national students' Physics team and went to a world-wide competition in South Korea, scored max on the SATs for Physics, Chemistry and Mathematics, but still wasn't accepted anywhere... So the admissions process truly is very hard (and somewhat "random" I'd say) at those top universities in the US.
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On July 13 2011 09:30 Sgany wrote:
I'll get the grades I need for any university in the UK you can hold me to that, come back to me in 2hours and ask if I have and I will. *I have told too many people that I will get the highest possible to not get the highest possible*
so how much work are you putting in a day in order to get these grades because you need to basically forget about your life for the next 2 years or however long if you want to get those grades because full marks is an almost impossible feat and judging by your gcse results you're not naturally clever enough to do it withouth an absurd amount of work and effort into your studies just telling people you'll do it means fuck all
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On July 13 2011 22:37 Telebear wrote:Show nested quote +On July 13 2011 09:30 Sgany wrote:
I'll get the grades I need for any university in the UK you can hold me to that, come back to me in 2hours and ask if I have and I will. *I have told too many people that I will get the highest possible to not get the highest possible* so how much work are you putting in a day in order to get these grades because you need to basically forget about your life for the next 2 years or however long if you want to get those grades because full marks is an almost impossible feat and judging by your gcse results you're not naturally clever enough to do it withouth an absurd amount of work and effort into your studies just telling people you'll do it means fuck all
I achieved 100% in nearly everyone of my GCSEs my only downfall which was my history which I admittently put no effort in and I was the only person in my year from that school to actually pass it, so the standard of teaching for it was pretty low. All I do not asides for watching GSL mornings and the other major starcraft tournaments is study and read so I am putting the effort into it.
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On July 12 2011 11:07 Sgany wrote:For the last year I have been fixated with going into an Ivy League College (or Stanford) or going to Cambridge or Oxford in my native UK. To start of I am 17 year old male from an average family in the UnitedKingdom. After doing my GCSEs and getting all passes but mostly C's and 2 B's, I moved down to Ireland and as of September I will be starting school down in Ireland studying. Subjects studying are: English Maths Applied Maths Physics Biology Economics Business I moreless plan to achieve 625 points total which is the highest amount of points you can earn in the Irish education system. I am also planning to sit SAT and two SAT IIs, achieving near max marks in all of them hopefully. I know this sounds arrogant to say I am going to get the highest marks possible but it what I feel I need to do, and I am going to invest the time needed to do so, even if that means rarely leaving my room. My issue comes when it comes to EC and other awards, in the UK and Ireland there seems to be little I can actually do outside Science rewards and Sports, since I plan to major/study Business it seems they would help me very little. Recently I have been losing lots of sleep not knowing what to do, I have been thinking of going abroad to South Korea to study at a SKY summer school for a month for the next 2 summers as this would give some sort of achievement I could put down. (We could not have a TL blog without Korea being involved could we now  ) I have been thinking of asking my parents if they would be able to pay for me to attend a private school which could perhaps offer me more support for my high aims and they also seem to provide additional EC such as Model UN etc. My parents however are not very supportive of me in any of this, I have yet to ask them for money to go to a private school as they do not even support me wanting to go study abroad for a summer even if I pay for it myself, which I am able to do. I have been getting very bad paranoia if I fail to get into one of these universities that I will be unable to forget about it as it is what I see as my main goal in life. My parents honestly do not seem to care at all, moreless calling me stupid for attempting to get into any of these universities. Currently I do not know what to do 
Consider sometimes your parents are very right. Consider everybody here is telling you to get a reality check, and consider that pretty much every teenager wants to prove everybody wrong, and consider the fact that you really do appear fixated. Fixation on something grandiose is a problem. You can dream big, but get results first and then you can come back here start planning your finances seriously, because you will have absolutely no money to fund this without scholarships. And then start thinking what you really want to do because you may find the experience disconcerting. You're thinking too much on what you can get and not enough on the actual work before you've jumped in.
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On July 13 2011 23:56 rabidch wrote:
Consider sometimes your parents are very right. Consider everybody here is telling you to get a reality check, and consider that pretty much every teenager wants to prove everybody wrong, and consider the fact that you really do appear fixated. Fixation on something grandiose is a problem. You can dream big, but get results first and then you can come back here start planning your finances seriously, because you will have absolutely no money to fund this without scholarships. And then start thinking what you really want to do because you may find the experience disconcerting. You're thinking too much on what you can get and not enough on the actual work before you've jumped in.
This is exactly right. Do your best work and then go to the best place the situation allows when the time comes. Don't set your sights on an extremely high goal and then allow yourself to be disappointed if you don't make it.
You shouldn't be worrying so much about where you're going to end up right now, you should be working hard and doing good work.
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On July 12 2011 11:07 Sgany wrote:For the last year I have been fixated with going into an Ivy League College (or Stanford) or going to Cambridge or Oxford in my native UK. To start of I am 17 year old male from an average family in the UnitedKingdom. After doing my GCSEs and getting all passes but mostly C's and 2 B's, I moved down to Ireland and as of September I will be starting school down in Ireland studying. Subjects studying are: English Maths Applied Maths Physics Biology Economics Business I moreless plan to achieve 625 points total which is the highest amount of points you can earn in the Irish education system. I am also planning to sit SAT and two SAT IIs, achieving near max marks in all of them hopefully. I know this sounds arrogant to say I am going to get the highest marks possible but it what I feel I need to do, and I am going to invest the time needed to do so, even if that means rarely leaving my room. My issue comes when it comes to EC and other awards, in the UK and Ireland there seems to be little I can actually do outside Science rewards and Sports, since I plan to major/study Business it seems they would help me very little. Recently I have been losing lots of sleep not knowing what to do, I have been thinking of going abroad to South Korea to study at a SKY summer school for a month for the next 2 summers as this would give some sort of achievement I could put down. (We could not have a TL blog without Korea being involved could we now ) I have been thinking of asking my parents if they would be able to pay for me to attend a private school which could perhaps offer me more support for my high aims and they also seem to provide additional EC such as Model UN etc. My parents however are not very supportive of me in any of this, I have yet to ask them for money to go to a private school as they do not even support me wanting to go study abroad for a summer even if I pay for it myself, which I am able to do. I have been getting very bad paranoia if I fail to get into one of these universities that I will be unable to forget about it as it is what I see as my main goal in life. My parents honestly do not seem to care at all, moreless calling me stupid for attempting to get into any of these universities. Currently I do not know what to do
I know a lot of people have already replied to this thread saying you need to stop fixating yourself with Harvard and Stanford, glorifying them and making a illogical straight drive towards them. I don't want to repeat their message too much. I know I'm not from the UK, but from the standpoint of a student applying for college, I have a lot of firsthand experience. I am 17 going on 18, and I applied to all those schools you were talking about last year.
+ Show Spoiler +On July 12 2011 11:48 RedJustice wrote:Qualifications: I am currently at UPenn. Basically I have a very very poor family, and went to a terrible school where many kids drop out and almost no one makes it through college. I knew this would not reflect well on my application so: - I got very top grades in all of my classes. (not hard at a crappy school) - I got very very good scores on the ACT and SAT. (You only need to take the SAT) - I studied on my own for 12 AP courses, and got good scores on most of them. - I worked a job during high school in tech support. (any job is good because it shows you can balance your time with school work if you keep up your grades) - I volunteered at my church and in the summer to go to natural disaster sites. - I participated in the academic competitions every Saturday for my school. - I played classical piano for 12 years. I think most important was my entrance essays. I spoke about my desire for a diverse environment of peers and classes, where I could explore anything I wanted to learn about. This is basically exactly the kind of school Penn is. I then explained how I could contribute to the environment the school has, by talking about how I have a unique perspective from having moved 13 times and gotten to see many different places and people. You need to get good grades and good scores. (Good, not perfect or genius, just good.) You need to do a few things outside of class. (A few, not 20.) And you need to convince the school you apply to that you are as good a fit for them as they are for you. I suggest you take some time to revise this ridiculous idea that you seem to have about getting into any school as long as it is in the top 20 or so. Find the schools that are the best fit for you (2 or 3), and tailor your applications and aims towards them. Your chances will be much better, and you will be much happier. I wanted to come to Penn since I was 14. I spent all of high school with the goal of getting in to Penn. I never once considered another school as a school I was interested in, and I only applied to Penn (I did apply through a special program where I got accepted at the end of October, so there was still time to submit to other schools if I was rejected. Not completely stupid. ). Because my goal was extremely narrow and focused, I was very successful. Stop panicking. Pick a school or two. Make a plan. Carry it out.
Grades, I wasn't as good as Redjustice up there, and I didn't have to go to a terrible high school. I scored mostly 5s on my 9 Aps, 800s on my sat ii's, over 2300 sat, played varsity sports, had numerous internships and leadership positions and won an international science competition. I didn't make HYP, and I got waitlisted (they took practicallly no one this year off waitlist anyway) by Stanford. I made all the UC's and was given Regent's scholarships and Honors program offers. I decided to go to UCLA.
I'm not bitter about not making these "TOP" schools because I know now that I'm not the kind of person they're looking for. I showed them neither some exceptional talent nor a specific quality that would show that I'm the kind of student they WANT to have on campus. I could just be another person who sits in his room, studying his books to get the grades, dreaming of but never actually seeing the gates of the Ivies.
Right now you are already 17, and the application process will be looming over you soon. You have only a few months to FIND a specific extracurricular that sets you apart.
But you already said there's nothing but science competitions or sports. That mindset alone, that nothing is setting you apart, is toxic. I also think getting hung up on the BEST schools as your only future in which you will succeed, and being anxious about it is a dangerous mindset. You really do have to make the decision with you eyes and brain rather than this gut feeling that you have to go to Cambridge/Oxford/Harvard.
You haven't seen the schools yourself and decided if you like it there? I went to visit Harvard, and I almost drowned in the snot-nosed elitism of the promotional video they showed while I sat there for hours waiting for a chance to ask questions to the Harvard presenter. (Nothing against the undergrads just the way Harvard admissions office promotional material portrays the school) Stanford was awesome though <3, I can understand why you'd want to apply there. HYP campuses are all gorgeous, and the professors are famous and well-connected while many of the kids are also from rich families. That sounds great, but that's really the only draw and you have to pay out of your ass for it.
When I was where you were right now, 17 and about to apply for college, I already knew that, even with my great numbers I was lacking some of the traits they wanted to see in their essays, interviews, and recommendations. I applied anyway because the application and transcript fee was marginal compared to the finality of an actual decision. However, in retrospect, that time was better spent on other things.
Even though I was so anxious about applying for college just a year ago, what I really remember over the past year was the friends I had met doing both old and new activities, hanging out w/ my fellow high school seniors before we all graduated. I took part in the play, the musical, I shot an amateur film, and I played a crapload of games. The anxiety no longer bothers me, now I just remember how great high school was. Go out and enjoy your life as much as your studies allow. It's a lot better than having your head in the clouds.
Do what you can and be proud of it. I wish you well, the application process is never easy.
TL;DR: Stop freaking out about Ivies. Do what you need to do, and really consider who you are. That's the most positive aspect of being a college applicant, self-discovery.
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You're not a rich international student or an even richer student schooled in Britain so I wouldn't bother applying to LSE.
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I'll throw in my two cents. I'm an Ivy League graduate and I can honestly say that I regret going through with it. I grew up in a household and a community where going to the most renown university was everything. It was only when I was mid-way through college that I realized it was overrated. By overrated, I don't mean that there aren't clear benefits to going to a top college, but that it's misplaced on what should be every student's priority list.
Now that I'm out of college, it's clear that I didn't get as much out of college life as I should have. I was stuck with the mentality that everything needed to have a second step, and that the end goal should lead me to a position of respect and fulfillment. This is bullcrap, mostly because at the end of the day you will never achieve your dreams and goals without being passionate about it. And the best way to become passionate is to be happy during those precious 4 years when you grow a tremendous amount.
I wasn't happy, and I just want to warn you that it was fairly common at my university... I agree with the others who said to evaluate yourself and what you really want. It's only then that you solidify some direction for your life instead of floating around uncertain and afraid of what the future holds.
If you didn't grow up as an overachiever (at least, this is what I gather from your grades), I would recommend exploring institutions where you could envision yourself doing well and with a positive attitude. Don't shackle yourself miserably to a misplaced social expectation.
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One other thing. Tons of people who do well at their undergraduate institutions end up going to prestigious graduate programs. This is something a lot of high school students overlook. In fact, graduate degrees are far more valuable than undergraduate degrees.
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Ok there is a MASSIVE thing you are missing in this whole thought process. And that is what you actually want to do with your life. You say your current aim is to get into a prestigious university, thats retarded. You should be aiming at a JOB you want, and then choosing the best institution to help you get there, university is a TOOL to help you get to where you want to go, it shouldn't be the place your aiming to get to. Even if you pulled off a miracle (from your current grades) and ended up studying astrophysics at Cambridge or something similar, you would be one of the thousands of graduates that drop out, becuase half way through your degree you will be asking yourself "why the hell am i actually doing this? Oh shit i actually don't know what i want to do for a job and I've picked the wrong degree/ i don't even want to do a degree".
It's ok if your not sure what to do when your older, but if thats the case then study a subject you REALLY love at university. And a note to the Americans, our system is not the same, basically in the UK university is a choice, and to not get into a good university either means your lazy or stupid, its not hard to get into a top 20 university in a subject your good at/enjoy. Even the best universities only ask for 4 A's at a-level, which isn't unattainable for most people, just most people are lazy, and the rest are really stupid. I know plenty of girls in particular who arnt intelligent who got 4 a's and have gone to a good university in the UK, we are very lucky that our university system, is much easier to get into. To get into a top 20 you dont even need 4 A's, most offers are much lower than that, and also you apply to 5, and even if you dont get the standard offer, one of those 5 usually let you in with below entrance requires, its really not hard, unless you get like all c's at a-level which either means your lazy or stupid again. And often you can get into a program with like BCC in a top 20, then apply for one year at a top institution after getting a 1st or 2/1 and then get a university name like oxford after your name for working hard for one year on your masters. But again, its all about what you want to actually do with your degree that matters, ie if you want to work for nasa then yes you will need to go to oxbridge, if you want to do medicine you will need perfect grades, but if your passion is graphic design and your aiming for maths at Cambridge becuase your parents are proud you will either realize at uni and drop out or be mid-career, have a crisis, and then realize you've wasted a lot of your working carer on a job you never wanted to do anyways.
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