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For the last year I have been fixated with going into an Ivy League College (or Stanford) or going to Cambridge or Oxford in my native UK.
To start of I am 17 year old male from an average family in the UnitedKingdom. After doing my GCSEs and getting all passes but mostly C's and 2 B's, I moved down to Ireland and as of September I will be starting school down in Ireland studying.
Subjects studying are:
English
Maths
Applied Maths
Physics
Biology
Economics
Business
I moreless plan to achieve 625 points total which is the highest amount of points you can earn in the Irish education system. I am also planning to sit SAT and two SAT IIs, achieving near max marks in all of them hopefully. I know this sounds arrogant to say I am going to get the highest marks possible but it what I feel I need to do, and I am going to invest the time needed to do so, even if that means rarely leaving my room.
My issue comes when it comes to EC and other awards, in the UK and Ireland there seems to be little I can actually do outside Science rewards and Sports, since I plan to major/study Business it seems they would help me very little. Recently I have been losing lots of sleep not knowing what to do, I have been thinking of going abroad to South Korea to study at a SKY summer school for a month for the next 2 summers as this would give some sort of achievement I could put down. (We could not have a TL blog without Korea being involved could we now  )
I have been thinking of asking my parents if they would be able to pay for me to attend a private school which could perhaps offer me more support for my high aims and they also seem to provide additional EC such as Model UN etc. My parents however are not very supportive of me in any of this, I have yet to ask them for money to go to a private school as they do not even support me wanting to go study abroad for a summer even if I pay for it myself, which I am able to do.
I have been getting very bad paranoia if I fail to get into one of these universities that I will be unable to forget about it as it is what I see as my main goal in life. My parents honestly do not seem to care at all, moreless calling me stupid for attempting to get into any of these universities.
Currently I do not know what to do 
 
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Not to stomp on your dreams, but if your parents aren't willing to pay for private school, how are you expecting to fund the $250k+ cost of a top American private school?
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It's absurd the fanaticism people place on undergraduate education. Not only is there no practical difference amongst top level schools, but if you're serious about school and plan to continue into graduate school, there are far far more important things than what undergrad university you attend.
Sounds like you're beating yourself up based on an imagined fear, the only thing to care about is whether you attend a good school. If you have the work ethic you describe in the OP, you'll have little trouble excelling wherever you arrive at, and excelling at a good university is just as impressive as excelling at a slightly better university.
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On July 12 2011 11:17 theonemephisto wrote:
Not to stomp on your dreams, but if your parents aren't willing to pay for private school, how are you expecting to fund the $250k+ cost of a top American private school?
Most of them seem to offer really good support for lower income families such as for Harvard I would not be required to pay for anything outside living costs and housing. Oxbridge is only 9k a year for 3years which I my am personally able to support. I am unsure about Columbia, Stanford etc but I will be doing more research on their finicial support.
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On July 12 2011 11:20 Elegy wrote:
It's absurd the fanaticism people place on undergraduate education. Not only is there no practical difference amongst top level schools, but if you're serious about school and plan to continue into graduate school, there are far far more important things than what undergrad university you attend.
Sounds like you're beating yourself up based on an imagined fear, the only thing to care about is whether you attend a good school. If you have the work ethic you describe in the OP, you'll have little trouble excelling wherever you arrive at, and excelling at a good university is just as impressive as excelling at a slightly better university.
You're going to find a lot better job opportunities and connections if you go to Wharton compared to NYU Stern..
Or MIT compared to some state school like NJIT.
I'm not sure if that's a lot bigger of a difference than what you were referring to, but there is definitely a "practical" advantage in different undergrad schools.
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On July 12 2011 11:20 Elegy wrote:
It's absurd the fanaticism people place on undergraduate education. Not only is there no practical difference amongst top level schools, but if you're serious about school and plan to continue into graduate school, there are far far more important things than what undergrad university you attend.
Sounds like you're beating yourself up based on an imagined fear, the only thing to care about is whether you attend a good school. If you have the work ethic you describe in the OP, you'll have little trouble excelling wherever you arrive at, and excelling at a good university is just as impressive as excelling at a slightly better university.
I know the difference between good universities and the top is very small, but I will be the first person in my families history (both sides) to attend university/College and I want to attend the best possible at every level. I know the major factor will be what graduate school I attend and not what undergrade I attend, I aim to end up at Harvard Business School (that being my ultimate goal at the end of it all).
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On July 12 2011 11:22 Jaso wrote:Show nested quote +On July 12 2011 11:20 Elegy wrote:
It's absurd the fanaticism people place on undergraduate education. Not only is there no practical difference amongst top level schools, but if you're serious about school and plan to continue into graduate school, there are far far more important things than what undergrad university you attend.
Sounds like you're beating yourself up based on an imagined fear, the only thing to care about is whether you attend a good school. If you have the work ethic you describe in the OP, you'll have little trouble excelling wherever you arrive at, and excelling at a good university is just as impressive as excelling at a slightly better university. You're going to find a lot better job opportunities and connections if you go to Wharton compared to NYU Stern.. Or MIT compared to some state school like NJIT. I'm not sure if that's a lot bigger of a difference than what you were referring to, but there is definitely a "practical" advantage in different undergrad schools.
Sure, but beating yourself up because X school is 2 points higher on Y rating scale probably does more harm than anything else.
Harvard law or MIT vs a state school is a huge difference, Harvard or Princeton vs say...Georgetown, Tufts, Dartmouth, NWU, NYU, or a top UC not so much
btw OP, financially you should be fine, the top private schools have insane endowments for people just like you. Provided your parents aren't rich, your financial aid package will defray most, if not all of the costs
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On July 12 2011 11:24 Elegy wrote:Show nested quote +On July 12 2011 11:22 Jaso wrote:On July 12 2011 11:20 Elegy wrote:
It's absurd the fanaticism people place on undergraduate education. Not only is there no practical difference amongst top level schools, but if you're serious about school and plan to continue into graduate school, there are far far more important things than what undergrad university you attend.
Sounds like you're beating yourself up based on an imagined fear, the only thing to care about is whether you attend a good school. If you have the work ethic you describe in the OP, you'll have little trouble excelling wherever you arrive at, and excelling at a good university is just as impressive as excelling at a slightly better university. You're going to find a lot better job opportunities and connections if you go to Wharton compared to NYU Stern.. Or MIT compared to some state school like NJIT. I'm not sure if that's a lot bigger of a difference than what you were referring to, but there is definitely a "practical" advantage in different undergrad schools. Sure, but beating yourself up because X school is 2 points higher on Y rating scale probably does more harm than anything else. Harvard law or MIT vs a state school is a huge difference, Harvard or Princeton vs say...Georgetown, Tufts, Dartmouth, NWU, NYU, or a top UC not so much btw OP, financially you should be fine, the top private schools have insane endowments for people just like you. Provided your parents aren't rich, your financial aid package will defray most, if not all of the costs
While I say Oxbridge and Ivy I basicly mean any university or College in the top 20 ranking being the goal, I would certainly not complain if I got accepted into one of the prestige London universities or Stanford etc.
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You should realize that people at these schools have good opportunities largely in part because they already had to be pretty successful to be admitted in the first place. For example, many people have national recognition in various areas on top of excellent academics. Even if they went to a state school they would be able to find good opportunities.
If you're outstanding then you'll do well regardless where you go, so don't worry about it.
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I say just get through life, don't worry about formal education, and accomplish what you're able to.
Good fortune in your enrollment!
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For start I think you should have a reality check. There are many many people getting all As these days in their GCSEs, so for whatever reason you are not currently getting the results that you need to go to one of these elite universities. You should also not be losing sleep about the eventuality that you don't end up going to one of these places. Don't worry about things that you haven't happened yet or things that you can't control.
However, making it your goal to get into one of these universities is great goal which could motivate you and frankly turn around your very average academic performance to date.
You won't believe what I am going to tell you, but it is true.
You don't need to pay for a private school to get great qualifications, and it probably wouldn't do you any good anyway. They don't have any magic way of making you learn. Half the reason they get good results is that they select their student input and their pupils come from families with high expectations, and the other half is to do with not having to deal with poor student behaviour and no money.
If you are the kind of person who can come home from school and study for 2 extra hours every day, who takes it upon themself to talk to their teachers after class about questions they have, who goes to the library and reads ahead of their classes, then you will definately get great grades, and you won't lose any sleep because you will know in your own mind that you are doing everything in your power to achieve your goals.
If I were you I would for example be spending the summer looking ahead to what I will be learning about when term starts, and reading ahead, as well as looking at the syllabus and some past exam papers so that you know what kind of questions you are going to have to answer eventually.
If you can do all these things then your parents will also see that you are serious and will I'm sure be more supportive.
As for extracurricular, I was captain of the school rugby teama and represented the school in many other sports, but it never did me the slightest bit of good for job/university applications. I would recommend writing to national and local businesses asking if you could volunteer (especially local businesses). Also look on the internet for internships, almost every big company has them. This is experience that will carry some weight, and it's not even that hard to get.
Turn your worry into action and take responsability for yourself and your education.
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Mostly C's? I don't want to put you down or anything but getting into an Ivy is hard for someone with a perfect record. Being already 17 I would say you'd have a better chance (assuming you work as fanatically hard as you say you will) transferring in (which is in of itself absurdly difficult). It may be your dream now but without some sort of incredible hook it'd be foolish to get your hopes up.
+ Show Spoiler +Sorry :/ I got canned from the Ivies last year and I spent my whole summer killing myself over it, I don't want you to do the same.
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Qualifications: I am currently at UPenn.
Basically I have a very very poor family, and went to a terrible school where many kids drop out and almost no one makes it through college. I knew this would not reflect well on my application so:
- I got very top grades in all of my classes. (not hard at a crappy school)
- I got very very good scores on the ACT and SAT. (You only need to take the SAT)
- I studied on my own for 12 AP courses, and got good scores on most of them.
- I worked a job during high school in tech support. (any job is good because it shows you can balance your time with school work if you keep up your grades)
- I volunteered at my church and in the summer to go to natural disaster sites.
- I participated in the academic competitions every Saturday for my school.
- I played classical piano for 12 years.
I think most important was my entrance essays. I spoke about my desire for a diverse environment of peers and classes, where I could explore anything I wanted to learn about. This is basically exactly the kind of school Penn is. I then explained how I could contribute to the environment the school has, by talking about how I have a unique perspective from having moved 13 times and gotten to see many different places and people.
You need to get good grades and good scores. (Good, not perfect or genius, just good.) You need to do a few things outside of class. (A few, not 20.) And you need to convince the school you apply to that you are as good a fit for them as they are for you.
I suggest you take some time to revise this ridiculous idea that you seem to have about getting into any school as long as it is in the top 20 or so. Find the schools that are the best fit for you (2 or 3), and tailor your applications and aims towards them. Your chances will be much better, and you will be much happier. I wanted to come to Penn since I was 14. I spent all of high school with the goal of getting in to Penn. I never once considered another school as a school I was interested in, and I only applied to Penn (I did apply through a special program where I got accepted at the end of October, so there was still time to submit to other schools if I was rejected. Not completely stupid. ). Because my goal was extremely narrow and focused, I was very successful.
Stop panicking. Pick a school or two. Make a plan. Carry it out.
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On July 12 2011 11:46 n.DieJokes wrote:Mostly C's? I don't want to put you down or anything but getting into an Ivy is hard for someone with a perfect record. Being already 17 I would say you'd have a better chance (assuming you work as fanatically hard as you say you will) transferring in (which is in of itself absurdly difficult). It may be your dream now but without some sort of incredible hook it'd be foolish to get your hopes up. + Show Spoiler +Sorry :/ I got canned from the Ivies last year and I spent my whole summer killing myself over it, I don't want you to do the same.
Due to different education systems I cannot see the Cs effecting my that much due to it basicly my "middle school" grades.
On July 12 2011 11:48 RedJustice wrote:Qualifications: I am currently at UPenn. Basically I have a very very poor family, and went to a terrible school where many kids drop out and almost no one makes it through college. I knew this would not reflect well on my application so: - I got very top grades in all of my classes. (not hard at a crappy school) - I got very very good scores on the ACT and SAT. (You only need to take the SAT) - I studied on my own for 12 AP courses, and got good scores on most of them. - I worked a job during high school in tech support. (any job is good because it shows you can balance your time with school work if you keep up your grades) - I volunteered at my church and in the summer to go to natural disaster sites. - I participated in the academic competitions every Saturday for my school. - I played classical piano for 12 years. I think most important was my entrance essays. I spoke about my desire for a diverse environment of peers and classes, where I could explore anything I wanted to learn about. This is basically exactly the kind of school Penn is. I then explained how I could contribute to the environment the school has, by talking about how I have a unique perspective from having moved 13 times and gotten to see many different places and people. You need to get good grades and good scores. (Good, not perfect or genius, just good.) You need to do a few things outside of class. (A few, not 20.) And you need to convince the school you apply to that you are as good a fit for them as they are for you. I suggest you take some time to revise this ridiculous idea that you seem to have about getting into any school as long as it is in the top 20 or so. Find the schools that are the best fit for you (2 or 3), and tailor your applications and aims towards them. Your chances will be much better, and you will be much happier. I wanted to come to Penn since I was 14. I spent all of high school with the goal of getting in to Penn. I never once considered another school as a school I was interested in, and I only applied to Penn (I did apply through a special program where I got accepted at the end of October, so there was still time to submit to other schools if I was rejected. Not completely stupid. ). Because my goal was extremely narrow and focused, I was very successful. Stop panicking. Pick a school or two. Make a plan. Carry it out.
In that case I would pick Stanford and Harvard, they are just two schools I have always been greatly interested in, Stanford just seems to be an amazing place to be at, while Harvard is Harvard. Outside of those two it would be Oxbridge or UCL.
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To be honest, I would try to go to school in the UK. Top colleges in the U.S. do accept a lot of international students, but they trend towards excellent students in third world countries or really exceptional students from Western Europe. If I recall, people made a big deal about Emma Watson going to Brown because she got all A levels, similar to her character in Harry Potter.
Coming from the UK, you are actually at quite a disadvantage, so keep your options open. I've heard of people go to Scotland or Ireland to university as well.
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On July 12 2011 11:55 Sgany wrote:Show nested quote +On July 12 2011 11:46 n.DieJokes wrote:Mostly C's? I don't want to put you down or anything but getting into an Ivy is hard for someone with a perfect record. Being already 17 I would say you'd have a better chance (assuming you work as fanatically hard as you say you will) transferring in (which is in of itself absurdly difficult). It may be your dream now but without some sort of incredible hook it'd be foolish to get your hopes up. + Show Spoiler +Sorry :/ I got canned from the Ivies last year and I spent my whole summer killing myself over it, I don't want you to do the same. Due to different education systems I cannot see the Cs effecting my that much due to it basicly my "middle school" grades.
Really? How old will you be when you plan to attend college?
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On July 12 2011 11:56 n.DieJokes wrote:Show nested quote +On July 12 2011 11:55 Sgany wrote:On July 12 2011 11:46 n.DieJokes wrote:Mostly C's? I don't want to put you down or anything but getting into an Ivy is hard for someone with a perfect record. Being already 17 I would say you'd have a better chance (assuming you work as fanatically hard as you say you will) transferring in (which is in of itself absurdly difficult). It may be your dream now but without some sort of incredible hook it'd be foolish to get your hopes up. + Show Spoiler +Sorry :/ I got canned from the Ivies last year and I spent my whole summer killing myself over it, I don't want you to do the same. Due to different education systems I cannot see the Cs effecting my that much due to it basicly my "middle school" grades. Really? How old will you be when you plan to attend college?
I had a gap year due to the awkward time I moved country so I will be 19. We only have two years of what can be called High school.
As a general question are Ivy Graduate schools less exclusive compared to the undergrade college?
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Lol Harvard is Harvard? Bad reason to go there.
I have not attended school there, so I am sure I am no authority. However, my ex went to MIT (which is rather close to Harvard), so I have met quite a few kids from there. My impression of them are spoiled rich kids being pampered by an institution more interested in keeping money families around than encouraging a solid academic environment. Traditionally they do accept a great deal of legacies (and then some token poor smart kids).
I suppose it depends on the kind of person you are, but if you are looking for a happy environment that is academically focused with smart-but-still-normal people, I would recommend against
Harvard (for reasons listed above; also if you are seriously interested in business, Wharton is better than Harvard)
Columbia (every transfer student I know here at Penn came from Columbia cause they hated it and said it was a depressing campus. Not sure how the suicide rates compare, but I seem to recall news articles from time to time about students committing suicide there.)
Yale (similar reasons to Harvard, though a bit less)
Standford seems quite good from what I know/hear about it.  I would spend a lot of time on their website getting to know more about the school/campus/courses/etc. If you have your heart set on Harvard, same. Otherwise, spend some more time looking at other schools to find a good fit for you.
EDIT: The Ivy Graduate schools are pretty exclusive, though remember that less people apply to graduate schools, so there is less overall competition. If you get in for undergrad though, you are very likely to get in for grad. If you do not get into a top college in your undergrad, you will need to get very good grades, and pursue research in the field you are interested in order to be competitive for a grad school at an Ivy.
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On July 12 2011 11:58 Sgany wrote:Show nested quote +On July 12 2011 11:56 n.DieJokes wrote:On July 12 2011 11:55 Sgany wrote:On July 12 2011 11:46 n.DieJokes wrote:Mostly C's? I don't want to put you down or anything but getting into an Ivy is hard for someone with a perfect record. Being already 17 I would say you'd have a better chance (assuming you work as fanatically hard as you say you will) transferring in (which is in of itself absurdly difficult). It may be your dream now but without some sort of incredible hook it'd be foolish to get your hopes up. + Show Spoiler +Sorry :/ I got canned from the Ivies last year and I spent my whole summer killing myself over it, I don't want you to do the same. Due to different education systems I cannot see the Cs effecting my that much due to it basicly my "middle school" grades. Really? How old will you be when you plan to attend college? I had a gap year due to the awkward time I moved country so I will be 19. We only have two years of what can be called High school. As a general question are Ivy Graduate schools less exclusive compared to the undergrade college?
I don't know about business, but in science, graduate school in general is much more exclusive than undergrad (acceptance rates for all grad schools are typically <20%, and that's among the students who had the drive to apply to grad school). But, as others have said, you can prove yourself to graduate schools at pretty much any half-decent school you go to.
Honestly, I hate to crush your dreams, but if you have mostly C's and a couple of B's, you pretty much have no chance of getting into an Ivy League. Being the first person to go to college in your family will help, but you have to realize that a >3.5 GPA is pretty much a prerequisite to get into any Ivy League school. Oxbridge/HYPSM generally will only accept someone with straight A's (unless you're a minority). I really don't think there's much you can do to make up for a C record with few extracurriculars.
Honestly, at this point, I wouldn't even waste my money ($70-80 per app) applying to top-tier schools if I were you. Set your sights on a solid mid-tier school and work your ass off once you get there. Go to grad school after that if you get good results.
Most importantly, I think that your determination to just get into Ivy Leagues or Oxbridge is quite short sighted. It's much more important that you go somewhere that you like.
edit: I guess I'll add some credentials. I'm a Cornell student who also applied and got rejected from Yale despite a near-perfect academic record (4.6 GPA weighted, 3.95 unweighted), many extracurriculars, a 2280 SAT, perfect SAT2 scores on Math and Physics, and working a job 15+ hours a week for most of high school. You have to understand how ridiculously competitive these schools are to get into, and if you have mostly C's, you simply cannot compete.
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On July 12 2011 11:55 Sgany wrote:
In that case I would pick Stanford and Harvard, they are just two schools I have always been greatly interested in, Stanford just seems to be an amazing place to be at, while Harvard is Harvard.
I don't mean to be harsh, but those reasons are nowhere near as fleshed out as they need to be. If you truly want to go to a top US school with those shoddy grades (yes, they are shoddy), you'll need to show an upward trend in your grades throughout the rest of your high school career, and you'll need to write some fucking great essays.
Re: ECs - Do what you love, don't do what you think will impress the admission officers.
On July 12 2011 12:07 RedJustice wrote:
I suppose it depends on the kind of person you are, but if you are looking for a happy environment that is academically focused with smart-but-still-normal people, I would recommend against
Harvard (for reasons listed above; also if you are seriously interested in business, Wharton is better than Harvard)
Columbia (every transfer student I know here at Penn came from Columbia cause they hated it and said it was a depressing campus. Not sure how the suicide rates compare, but I seem to recall news articles from time to time about students committing suicide there.)
Yale (similar reasons to Harvard, though a bit less)
Are you trolling?
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EPT
