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For the last year I have been fixated with going into an Ivy League College (or Stanford) or going to Cambridge or Oxford in my native UK.
To start of I am 17 year old male from an average family in the UnitedKingdom. After doing my GCSEs and getting all passes but mostly C's and 2 B's, I moved down to Ireland and as of September I will be starting school down in Ireland studying.
Subjects studying are:
English
Maths
Applied Maths
Physics
Biology
Economics
Business
I moreless plan to achieve 625 points total which is the highest amount of points you can earn in the Irish education system. I am also planning to sit SAT and two SAT IIs, achieving near max marks in all of them hopefully. I know this sounds arrogant to say I am going to get the highest marks possible but it what I feel I need to do, and I am going to invest the time needed to do so, even if that means rarely leaving my room.
My issue comes when it comes to EC and other awards, in the UK and Ireland there seems to be little I can actually do outside Science rewards and Sports, since I plan to major/study Business it seems they would help me very little. Recently I have been losing lots of sleep not knowing what to do, I have been thinking of going abroad to South Korea to study at a SKY summer school for a month for the next 2 summers as this would give some sort of achievement I could put down. (We could not have a TL blog without Korea being involved could we now  )
I have been thinking of asking my parents if they would be able to pay for me to attend a private school which could perhaps offer me more support for my high aims and they also seem to provide additional EC such as Model UN etc. My parents however are not very supportive of me in any of this, I have yet to ask them for money to go to a private school as they do not even support me wanting to go study abroad for a summer even if I pay for it myself, which I am able to do.
I have been getting very bad paranoia if I fail to get into one of these universities that I will be unable to forget about it as it is what I see as my main goal in life. My parents honestly do not seem to care at all, moreless calling me stupid for attempting to get into any of these universities.
Currently I do not know what to do 
 
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Not to stomp on your dreams, but if your parents aren't willing to pay for private school, how are you expecting to fund the $250k+ cost of a top American private school?
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It's absurd the fanaticism people place on undergraduate education. Not only is there no practical difference amongst top level schools, but if you're serious about school and plan to continue into graduate school, there are far far more important things than what undergrad university you attend.
Sounds like you're beating yourself up based on an imagined fear, the only thing to care about is whether you attend a good school. If you have the work ethic you describe in the OP, you'll have little trouble excelling wherever you arrive at, and excelling at a good university is just as impressive as excelling at a slightly better university.
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On July 12 2011 11:17 theonemephisto wrote:
Not to stomp on your dreams, but if your parents aren't willing to pay for private school, how are you expecting to fund the $250k+ cost of a top American private school?
Most of them seem to offer really good support for lower income families such as for Harvard I would not be required to pay for anything outside living costs and housing. Oxbridge is only 9k a year for 3years which I my am personally able to support. I am unsure about Columbia, Stanford etc but I will be doing more research on their finicial support.
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On July 12 2011 11:20 Elegy wrote:
It's absurd the fanaticism people place on undergraduate education. Not only is there no practical difference amongst top level schools, but if you're serious about school and plan to continue into graduate school, there are far far more important things than what undergrad university you attend.
Sounds like you're beating yourself up based on an imagined fear, the only thing to care about is whether you attend a good school. If you have the work ethic you describe in the OP, you'll have little trouble excelling wherever you arrive at, and excelling at a good university is just as impressive as excelling at a slightly better university.
You're going to find a lot better job opportunities and connections if you go to Wharton compared to NYU Stern..
Or MIT compared to some state school like NJIT.
I'm not sure if that's a lot bigger of a difference than what you were referring to, but there is definitely a "practical" advantage in different undergrad schools.
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On July 12 2011 11:20 Elegy wrote:
It's absurd the fanaticism people place on undergraduate education. Not only is there no practical difference amongst top level schools, but if you're serious about school and plan to continue into graduate school, there are far far more important things than what undergrad university you attend.
Sounds like you're beating yourself up based on an imagined fear, the only thing to care about is whether you attend a good school. If you have the work ethic you describe in the OP, you'll have little trouble excelling wherever you arrive at, and excelling at a good university is just as impressive as excelling at a slightly better university.
I know the difference between good universities and the top is very small, but I will be the first person in my families history (both sides) to attend university/College and I want to attend the best possible at every level. I know the major factor will be what graduate school I attend and not what undergrade I attend, I aim to end up at Harvard Business School (that being my ultimate goal at the end of it all).
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On July 12 2011 11:22 Jaso wrote:Show nested quote +On July 12 2011 11:20 Elegy wrote:
It's absurd the fanaticism people place on undergraduate education. Not only is there no practical difference amongst top level schools, but if you're serious about school and plan to continue into graduate school, there are far far more important things than what undergrad university you attend.
Sounds like you're beating yourself up based on an imagined fear, the only thing to care about is whether you attend a good school. If you have the work ethic you describe in the OP, you'll have little trouble excelling wherever you arrive at, and excelling at a good university is just as impressive as excelling at a slightly better university. You're going to find a lot better job opportunities and connections if you go to Wharton compared to NYU Stern.. Or MIT compared to some state school like NJIT. I'm not sure if that's a lot bigger of a difference than what you were referring to, but there is definitely a "practical" advantage in different undergrad schools.
Sure, but beating yourself up because X school is 2 points higher on Y rating scale probably does more harm than anything else.
Harvard law or MIT vs a state school is a huge difference, Harvard or Princeton vs say...Georgetown, Tufts, Dartmouth, NWU, NYU, or a top UC not so much
btw OP, financially you should be fine, the top private schools have insane endowments for people just like you. Provided your parents aren't rich, your financial aid package will defray most, if not all of the costs
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On July 12 2011 11:24 Elegy wrote:Show nested quote +On July 12 2011 11:22 Jaso wrote:On July 12 2011 11:20 Elegy wrote:
It's absurd the fanaticism people place on undergraduate education. Not only is there no practical difference amongst top level schools, but if you're serious about school and plan to continue into graduate school, there are far far more important things than what undergrad university you attend.
Sounds like you're beating yourself up based on an imagined fear, the only thing to care about is whether you attend a good school. If you have the work ethic you describe in the OP, you'll have little trouble excelling wherever you arrive at, and excelling at a good university is just as impressive as excelling at a slightly better university. You're going to find a lot better job opportunities and connections if you go to Wharton compared to NYU Stern.. Or MIT compared to some state school like NJIT. I'm not sure if that's a lot bigger of a difference than what you were referring to, but there is definitely a "practical" advantage in different undergrad schools. Sure, but beating yourself up because X school is 2 points higher on Y rating scale probably does more harm than anything else. Harvard law or MIT vs a state school is a huge difference, Harvard or Princeton vs say...Georgetown, Tufts, Dartmouth, NWU, NYU, or a top UC not so much btw OP, financially you should be fine, the top private schools have insane endowments for people just like you. Provided your parents aren't rich, your financial aid package will defray most, if not all of the costs
While I say Oxbridge and Ivy I basicly mean any university or College in the top 20 ranking being the goal, I would certainly not complain if I got accepted into one of the prestige London universities or Stanford etc.
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You should realize that people at these schools have good opportunities largely in part because they already had to be pretty successful to be admitted in the first place. For example, many people have national recognition in various areas on top of excellent academics. Even if they went to a state school they would be able to find good opportunities.
If you're outstanding then you'll do well regardless where you go, so don't worry about it.
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I say just get through life, don't worry about formal education, and accomplish what you're able to.
Good fortune in your enrollment!
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For start I think you should have a reality check. There are many many people getting all As these days in their GCSEs, so for whatever reason you are not currently getting the results that you need to go to one of these elite universities. You should also not be losing sleep about the eventuality that you don't end up going to one of these places. Don't worry about things that you haven't happened yet or things that you can't control.
However, making it your goal to get into one of these universities is great goal which could motivate you and frankly turn around your very average academic performance to date.
You won't believe what I am going to tell you, but it is true.
You don't need to pay for a private school to get great qualifications, and it probably wouldn't do you any good anyway. They don't have any magic way of making you learn. Half the reason they get good results is that they select their student input and their pupils come from families with high expectations, and the other half is to do with not having to deal with poor student behaviour and no money.
If you are the kind of person who can come home from school and study for 2 extra hours every day, who takes it upon themself to talk to their teachers after class about questions they have, who goes to the library and reads ahead of their classes, then you will definately get great grades, and you won't lose any sleep because you will know in your own mind that you are doing everything in your power to achieve your goals.
If I were you I would for example be spending the summer looking ahead to what I will be learning about when term starts, and reading ahead, as well as looking at the syllabus and some past exam papers so that you know what kind of questions you are going to have to answer eventually.
If you can do all these things then your parents will also see that you are serious and will I'm sure be more supportive.
As for extracurricular, I was captain of the school rugby teama and represented the school in many other sports, but it never did me the slightest bit of good for job/university applications. I would recommend writing to national and local businesses asking if you could volunteer (especially local businesses). Also look on the internet for internships, almost every big company has them. This is experience that will carry some weight, and it's not even that hard to get.
Turn your worry into action and take responsability for yourself and your education.
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Mostly C's? I don't want to put you down or anything but getting into an Ivy is hard for someone with a perfect record. Being already 17 I would say you'd have a better chance (assuming you work as fanatically hard as you say you will) transferring in (which is in of itself absurdly difficult). It may be your dream now but without some sort of incredible hook it'd be foolish to get your hopes up.
+ Show Spoiler +Sorry :/ I got canned from the Ivies last year and I spent my whole summer killing myself over it, I don't want you to do the same.
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Qualifications: I am currently at UPenn.
Basically I have a very very poor family, and went to a terrible school where many kids drop out and almost no one makes it through college. I knew this would not reflect well on my application so:
- I got very top grades in all of my classes. (not hard at a crappy school)
- I got very very good scores on the ACT and SAT. (You only need to take the SAT)
- I studied on my own for 12 AP courses, and got good scores on most of them.
- I worked a job during high school in tech support. (any job is good because it shows you can balance your time with school work if you keep up your grades)
- I volunteered at my church and in the summer to go to natural disaster sites.
- I participated in the academic competitions every Saturday for my school.
- I played classical piano for 12 years.
I think most important was my entrance essays. I spoke about my desire for a diverse environment of peers and classes, where I could explore anything I wanted to learn about. This is basically exactly the kind of school Penn is. I then explained how I could contribute to the environment the school has, by talking about how I have a unique perspective from having moved 13 times and gotten to see many different places and people.
You need to get good grades and good scores. (Good, not perfect or genius, just good.) You need to do a few things outside of class. (A few, not 20.) And you need to convince the school you apply to that you are as good a fit for them as they are for you.
I suggest you take some time to revise this ridiculous idea that you seem to have about getting into any school as long as it is in the top 20 or so. Find the schools that are the best fit for you (2 or 3), and tailor your applications and aims towards them. Your chances will be much better, and you will be much happier. I wanted to come to Penn since I was 14. I spent all of high school with the goal of getting in to Penn. I never once considered another school as a school I was interested in, and I only applied to Penn (I did apply through a special program where I got accepted at the end of October, so there was still time to submit to other schools if I was rejected. Not completely stupid. ). Because my goal was extremely narrow and focused, I was very successful.
Stop panicking. Pick a school or two. Make a plan. Carry it out.
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On July 12 2011 11:46 n.DieJokes wrote:Mostly C's? I don't want to put you down or anything but getting into an Ivy is hard for someone with a perfect record. Being already 17 I would say you'd have a better chance (assuming you work as fanatically hard as you say you will) transferring in (which is in of itself absurdly difficult). It may be your dream now but without some sort of incredible hook it'd be foolish to get your hopes up. + Show Spoiler +Sorry :/ I got canned from the Ivies last year and I spent my whole summer killing myself over it, I don't want you to do the same.
Due to different education systems I cannot see the Cs effecting my that much due to it basicly my "middle school" grades.
On July 12 2011 11:48 RedJustice wrote:Qualifications: I am currently at UPenn. Basically I have a very very poor family, and went to a terrible school where many kids drop out and almost no one makes it through college. I knew this would not reflect well on my application so: - I got very top grades in all of my classes. (not hard at a crappy school) - I got very very good scores on the ACT and SAT. (You only need to take the SAT) - I studied on my own for 12 AP courses, and got good scores on most of them. - I worked a job during high school in tech support. (any job is good because it shows you can balance your time with school work if you keep up your grades) - I volunteered at my church and in the summer to go to natural disaster sites. - I participated in the academic competitions every Saturday for my school. - I played classical piano for 12 years. I think most important was my entrance essays. I spoke about my desire for a diverse environment of peers and classes, where I could explore anything I wanted to learn about. This is basically exactly the kind of school Penn is. I then explained how I could contribute to the environment the school has, by talking about how I have a unique perspective from having moved 13 times and gotten to see many different places and people. You need to get good grades and good scores. (Good, not perfect or genius, just good.) You need to do a few things outside of class. (A few, not 20.) And you need to convince the school you apply to that you are as good a fit for them as they are for you. I suggest you take some time to revise this ridiculous idea that you seem to have about getting into any school as long as it is in the top 20 or so. Find the schools that are the best fit for you (2 or 3), and tailor your applications and aims towards them. Your chances will be much better, and you will be much happier. I wanted to come to Penn since I was 14. I spent all of high school with the goal of getting in to Penn. I never once considered another school as a school I was interested in, and I only applied to Penn (I did apply through a special program where I got accepted at the end of October, so there was still time to submit to other schools if I was rejected. Not completely stupid. ). Because my goal was extremely narrow and focused, I was very successful. Stop panicking. Pick a school or two. Make a plan. Carry it out.
In that case I would pick Stanford and Harvard, they are just two schools I have always been greatly interested in, Stanford just seems to be an amazing place to be at, while Harvard is Harvard. Outside of those two it would be Oxbridge or UCL.
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To be honest, I would try to go to school in the UK. Top colleges in the U.S. do accept a lot of international students, but they trend towards excellent students in third world countries or really exceptional students from Western Europe. If I recall, people made a big deal about Emma Watson going to Brown because she got all A levels, similar to her character in Harry Potter.
Coming from the UK, you are actually at quite a disadvantage, so keep your options open. I've heard of people go to Scotland or Ireland to university as well.
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On July 12 2011 11:55 Sgany wrote:Show nested quote +On July 12 2011 11:46 n.DieJokes wrote:Mostly C's? I don't want to put you down or anything but getting into an Ivy is hard for someone with a perfect record. Being already 17 I would say you'd have a better chance (assuming you work as fanatically hard as you say you will) transferring in (which is in of itself absurdly difficult). It may be your dream now but without some sort of incredible hook it'd be foolish to get your hopes up. + Show Spoiler +Sorry :/ I got canned from the Ivies last year and I spent my whole summer killing myself over it, I don't want you to do the same. Due to different education systems I cannot see the Cs effecting my that much due to it basicly my "middle school" grades.
Really? How old will you be when you plan to attend college?
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On July 12 2011 11:56 n.DieJokes wrote:Show nested quote +On July 12 2011 11:55 Sgany wrote:On July 12 2011 11:46 n.DieJokes wrote:Mostly C's? I don't want to put you down or anything but getting into an Ivy is hard for someone with a perfect record. Being already 17 I would say you'd have a better chance (assuming you work as fanatically hard as you say you will) transferring in (which is in of itself absurdly difficult). It may be your dream now but without some sort of incredible hook it'd be foolish to get your hopes up. + Show Spoiler +Sorry :/ I got canned from the Ivies last year and I spent my whole summer killing myself over it, I don't want you to do the same. Due to different education systems I cannot see the Cs effecting my that much due to it basicly my "middle school" grades. Really? How old will you be when you plan to attend college?
I had a gap year due to the awkward time I moved country so I will be 19. We only have two years of what can be called High school.
As a general question are Ivy Graduate schools less exclusive compared to the undergrade college?
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Lol Harvard is Harvard? Bad reason to go there.
I have not attended school there, so I am sure I am no authority. However, my ex went to MIT (which is rather close to Harvard), so I have met quite a few kids from there. My impression of them are spoiled rich kids being pampered by an institution more interested in keeping money families around than encouraging a solid academic environment. Traditionally they do accept a great deal of legacies (and then some token poor smart kids).
I suppose it depends on the kind of person you are, but if you are looking for a happy environment that is academically focused with smart-but-still-normal people, I would recommend against
Harvard (for reasons listed above; also if you are seriously interested in business, Wharton is better than Harvard)
Columbia (every transfer student I know here at Penn came from Columbia cause they hated it and said it was a depressing campus. Not sure how the suicide rates compare, but I seem to recall news articles from time to time about students committing suicide there.)
Yale (similar reasons to Harvard, though a bit less)
Standford seems quite good from what I know/hear about it.  I would spend a lot of time on their website getting to know more about the school/campus/courses/etc. If you have your heart set on Harvard, same. Otherwise, spend some more time looking at other schools to find a good fit for you.
EDIT: The Ivy Graduate schools are pretty exclusive, though remember that less people apply to graduate schools, so there is less overall competition. If you get in for undergrad though, you are very likely to get in for grad. If you do not get into a top college in your undergrad, you will need to get very good grades, and pursue research in the field you are interested in order to be competitive for a grad school at an Ivy.
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On July 12 2011 11:58 Sgany wrote:Show nested quote +On July 12 2011 11:56 n.DieJokes wrote:On July 12 2011 11:55 Sgany wrote:On July 12 2011 11:46 n.DieJokes wrote:Mostly C's? I don't want to put you down or anything but getting into an Ivy is hard for someone with a perfect record. Being already 17 I would say you'd have a better chance (assuming you work as fanatically hard as you say you will) transferring in (which is in of itself absurdly difficult). It may be your dream now but without some sort of incredible hook it'd be foolish to get your hopes up. + Show Spoiler +Sorry :/ I got canned from the Ivies last year and I spent my whole summer killing myself over it, I don't want you to do the same. Due to different education systems I cannot see the Cs effecting my that much due to it basicly my "middle school" grades. Really? How old will you be when you plan to attend college? I had a gap year due to the awkward time I moved country so I will be 19. We only have two years of what can be called High school. As a general question are Ivy Graduate schools less exclusive compared to the undergrade college?
I don't know about business, but in science, graduate school in general is much more exclusive than undergrad (acceptance rates for all grad schools are typically <20%, and that's among the students who had the drive to apply to grad school). But, as others have said, you can prove yourself to graduate schools at pretty much any half-decent school you go to.
Honestly, I hate to crush your dreams, but if you have mostly C's and a couple of B's, you pretty much have no chance of getting into an Ivy League. Being the first person to go to college in your family will help, but you have to realize that a >3.5 GPA is pretty much a prerequisite to get into any Ivy League school. Oxbridge/HYPSM generally will only accept someone with straight A's (unless you're a minority). I really don't think there's much you can do to make up for a C record with few extracurriculars.
Honestly, at this point, I wouldn't even waste my money ($70-80 per app) applying to top-tier schools if I were you. Set your sights on a solid mid-tier school and work your ass off once you get there. Go to grad school after that if you get good results.
Most importantly, I think that your determination to just get into Ivy Leagues or Oxbridge is quite short sighted. It's much more important that you go somewhere that you like.
edit: I guess I'll add some credentials. I'm a Cornell student who also applied and got rejected from Yale despite a near-perfect academic record (4.6 GPA weighted, 3.95 unweighted), many extracurriculars, a 2280 SAT, perfect SAT2 scores on Math and Physics, and working a job 15+ hours a week for most of high school. You have to understand how ridiculously competitive these schools are to get into, and if you have mostly C's, you simply cannot compete.
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On July 12 2011 11:55 Sgany wrote:
In that case I would pick Stanford and Harvard, they are just two schools I have always been greatly interested in, Stanford just seems to be an amazing place to be at, while Harvard is Harvard.
I don't mean to be harsh, but those reasons are nowhere near as fleshed out as they need to be. If you truly want to go to a top US school with those shoddy grades (yes, they are shoddy), you'll need to show an upward trend in your grades throughout the rest of your high school career, and you'll need to write some fucking great essays.
Re: ECs - Do what you love, don't do what you think will impress the admission officers.
On July 12 2011 12:07 RedJustice wrote:
I suppose it depends on the kind of person you are, but if you are looking for a happy environment that is academically focused with smart-but-still-normal people, I would recommend against
Harvard (for reasons listed above; also if you are seriously interested in business, Wharton is better than Harvard)
Columbia (every transfer student I know here at Penn came from Columbia cause they hated it and said it was a depressing campus. Not sure how the suicide rates compare, but I seem to recall news articles from time to time about students committing suicide there.)
Yale (similar reasons to Harvard, though a bit less)
Are you trolling?
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On July 12 2011 12:12 matjlav wrote:Show nested quote +On July 12 2011 11:58 Sgany wrote:On July 12 2011 11:56 n.DieJokes wrote:On July 12 2011 11:55 Sgany wrote:On July 12 2011 11:46 n.DieJokes wrote:Mostly C's? I don't want to put you down or anything but getting into an Ivy is hard for someone with a perfect record. Being already 17 I would say you'd have a better chance (assuming you work as fanatically hard as you say you will) transferring in (which is in of itself absurdly difficult). It may be your dream now but without some sort of incredible hook it'd be foolish to get your hopes up. + Show Spoiler +Sorry :/ I got canned from the Ivies last year and I spent my whole summer killing myself over it, I don't want you to do the same. Due to different education systems I cannot see the Cs effecting my that much due to it basicly my "middle school" grades. Really? How old will you be when you plan to attend college? I had a gap year due to the awkward time I moved country so I will be 19. We only have two years of what can be called High school. As a general question are Ivy Graduate schools less exclusive compared to the undergrade college? I don't know about business, but in science, graduate school in general is much more exclusive than undergrad (acceptance rates for all grad schools are typically <20%, and that's among the students who had the drive to apply to grad school). But, as others have said, you can prove yourself to graduate schools at pretty much any half-decent school you go to.
Honestly, I hate to crush your dreams, but if you have mostly C's and a couple of B's, you pretty much have no chance of getting into an Ivy League. Being the first person to go to college in your family will help, but you have to realize that a >3.5 GPA is pretty much a prerequisite to get into any Ivy League school. Oxbridge/HYPSM generally will only accept someone with straight A's (unless you're a minority). I really don't think there's much you can do to make up for a C record with few extracurriculars.Honestly, at this point, I wouldn't even waste my money ($70-80 per app) applying to top-tier schools if I were you. Set your sights on a solid mid-tier school and work your ass off once you get there. Go to grad school after that if you get good results. Most importantly, I think that your determination to just get into Ivy Leagues or Oxbridge is quite short sighted. It's much more important that you go somewhere that you like.
As I said that will most likely not matter at all, due to the different education systems those exams are basicly to say if you can continue your education to a higher level in the UK and Ireland, which I was able to do easily. The reason I done so bad was that I went to a bad school and the system in the UK means that there is two test tiers and I was forced to do the lower papers as the teachers could not teach the higher tier stuff to the class. I got 90%+ in everything if not 100%
I am yet to do any of the major exams.
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Can you explain the Irish grading system a bit? Specifically the high school - not sure why middle school grades are even mentioned tbh as U.S. schools don't look at that at all. What's the 635 points thing? How does it equate to GPA in U.S. (if you know that system).
Also, you should expect to have perfect 800 in all your SAT II subjects, very average students can get 800 on SAT II with moderate ease, good students can get them in their sleep (especially if they also took the AP course/test of the same subject). And for SAT, depending on your definition of "near perfect" that's a good goal, but honestly anything above 2300 is good enough for ivy leagues.
Oh, also, don't worry so much. Even if you don't get into a a great school you can always transfer in second year, lots of people do it. Don't make it sound like there's one shot to graduate from a top school.
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On July 12 2011 12:28 Count9 wrote:
Can you explain the Irish grading system a bit? Specifically the high school - not sure why middle school grades are even mentioned tbh as U.S. schools don't look at that at all. What's the 635 points thing? How does it equate to GPA in U.S. (if you know that system).
Also, you should expect to have perfect 800 in all your SAT II subjects, very average students can get 800 on SAT II with moderate ease, good students can get them in their sleep (especially if they also took the AP course/test of the same subject). And for SAT, depending on your definition of "near perfect" that's a good goal, but honestly anything above 2300 is good enough for ivy leagues.
Oh, also, don't worry so much. Even if you don't get into a a great school you can always transfer in second year, lots of people do it. Don't make it sound like there's one shot to graduate from a top school.
Basicly we do it like this
First 7 years are your junior years
Next 5 are your middle years (These are the exams I did bad on)
Next 2 are your final years
You get points for each grade you get the max being 625 now, it just went up from 600. It means getting A1 = A+ in everything. So basicly a perfect GPA.
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On July 12 2011 12:36 Sgany wrote:
Basicly we do it like this
First 7 years are your junior years
Next 5 are your middle years (These are the exams I did bad on)
Next 2 are your final years
You get points for each grade you get the max being 625 now, it just went up from 600. It means getting A1 = A+ in everything. So basicly a perfect GPA.
Sorry I'm not adding anything but I'm curious haha. If you already got a bunch of C's and only a few B's how is it possible for you to still achieve the max of 625?
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On July 12 2011 12:07 RedJustice wrote:Columbia (every transfer student I know here at Penn came from Columbia cause they hated it and said it was a depressing campus. Not sure how the suicide rates compare, but I seem to recall news articles from time to time about students committing suicide there.)
What is this, lol. Columbia has one of the most elegant campuses out there, not to mention being situated within Manhattan.
I'm not gonna talk about UPenn, because everyone knows how awkward the rest of the city is around it =P.
I think you're mistaking Columbia for Cornell, where there was a string of suicides not long ago.
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My school's valedictorian got rejected from Harvard and Yale with a 4.7 GPA, 2400 SATs, all 5s in ~20 APs, and a ridiculous number of extracurriculars.
Moral of the story: don't get your hopes up, aim for something you have a decent shot with (lets be honest, your grades aren't anywhere close to where they need to be). Since you're living in the UK you would probably be better off saving money then going somewhere really good for graduate school.
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Wow. I feel like I could have written your post 20 years ago. I too was fixated on going to a "top" university. I had middling grades and pretty much perfect board scores. Needless to say I didn't get in.
You should really broaden your search for the right school. Think more about what you want to study and the kind of environment that works for you (big? small? structured? unstructured?). You want to go to b-school? There are schools with better econ departments than any of the ones you mentioned. Do you thrive on personal attention and small class size? You won't find it any of those schools. Are you the kind of person that succeeds in a structured environment? Then maybe look for a school with a strong core curriculum. Or are you a self-starter? Then look for a school with a reputation for fostering independent studies.
I went on to my "safety" school--the University of Chicago, which, as it happens, gave me a better education than I would have received at Harvard. I can verify that I think because I went on to law school at Harvard after graduating with highest honors from Chicago. I was lucky--I blindly stumbled onto a place, Chicago, that was probably perfect for me.
So, my advice to you is apply to the Ivys so you don't go the rest of your life wondering about it, but put some serious effort into identifying some reachable schools that offer you the kind of education you want. Feel free to PM me if you want any further advice about American colleges.
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here's a bit of advice: accept the fact that you're not going to get in. i got rejected from UC berkley and UCLA despite having 2400 SAT, 800 on math sat2, 3.8ish gpa; as for MIT, lol. even if you don't have amazing grades (which you don't), you have to stand out from the thousands of other applicants with amazing grades. you need to have fucking good extracurriculars where you're someone who mattered in stuff like FBLA, mock UN, et cetera.
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Stanford is the worst, unless you're amazing at sports and have excellent grades, you're not getting in. Most of the American schools you choose have extremely low acceptance rates, even if you did well on your academic studies, there is barely any chance of you getting in.
Not to destroy your dreams but thats reality. You should not only focus on academic achievements but also an array of ECs. Lets face it once you get to college, you then realise how straight forward and simple high school was.
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On July 12 2011 12:07 RedJustice wrote:Lol Harvard is Harvard? Bad reason to go there. I have not attended school there, so I am sure I am no authority. However, my ex went to MIT (which is rather close to Harvard), so I have met quite a few kids from there. My impression of them are spoiled rich kids being pampered by an institution more interested in keeping money families around than encouraging a solid academic environment. Traditionally they do accept a great deal of legacies (and then some token poor smart kids). I suppose it depends on the kind of person you are, but if you are looking for a happy environment that is academically focused with smart-but-still-normal people, I would recommend against Harvard (for reasons listed above; also if you are seriously interested in business, Wharton is better than Harvard) Columbia (every transfer student I know here at Penn came from Columbia cause they hated it and said it was a depressing campus. Not sure how the suicide rates compare, but I seem to recall news articles from time to time about students committing suicide there.) Yale (similar reasons to Harvard, though a bit less)
Err I go to Yale and it's a pretty nice place. Of course there are rich kids, but there are also many smart and nice people. There are lots of great professors at these universities and if you're really into a subject they can be a great resource. I don't know much about Harvard or Columbia but I would advise against making a sweeping judgment based on a few people you met from there.
Wharton is obviously great if you're set on doing business, but as you surely know it's not easy to get in =p
"Harvard is Harvard" is a pretty common reason why people go there, which is fine since people are attracted to prestige. However, to get the most out of it you probably need to have some clear strengths or goals.
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Alright, so I can't really say much with respect to undergrad at ivy league/top tier schools because I didn't go - but I would guess networking/exposure etc. are some of the biggest pros.
In terms of graduate school (sciences, specifically chemistry/biochemistry) I learned that people seem to be accepted from everyhwere. I guess the issue comes down to graduate schools looking for the best and thus it's probably much better to be the top student in some sub-par Canadian university (me, now at harvard) vs. anything less than like top 5 in an ivy. I noted during my graduate interviews that there were actually very few students from ivy league/top tier schools and they definetely didn't seem as over-represented as I had expected. So this is definetely something to consider if you are planning to go onto graduate school. Your chances of being the best student @ harvard or stanford are so much slimmer than at a less prestigious university. That being said this is probably field variable, and I would guess going to say medschool it might help. Business I have no idea - maybe the networking/contacts etc. help.
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Some people here had some very good ideas.
If you plan to go to graduate school, then any reasonably high ranked public school will do.
I am not sure about your situation at UK, but here at Toronto, only one friend of mine went to MIT, rest stayed in Ontario (University of Toronto, University of Waterloo, etc.). Many of them then got into Harvard, CMU, NYU, etc. for graduate school. I am sure their future is very bright, and debt-free.
So yea, if you cannot afford a top private school, just go to a good public school that is near your home. You can spend an extra 1-2 year to get a graduate degree from a top private school later on - which will very likely to be funded by the department.
On July 12 2011 13:24 TOloseGT wrote:Show nested quote +On July 12 2011 12:07 RedJustice wrote:Columbia (every transfer student I know here at Penn came from Columbia cause they hated it and said it was a depressing campus. Not sure how the suicide rates compare, but I seem to recall news articles from time to time about students committing suicide there.) What is this, lol. Columbia has one of the most elegant campuses out there, not to mention being situated within Manhattan. I'm not gonna talk about UPenn, because everyone knows how awkward the rest of the city is around it =P. I think you're mistaking Columbia for Cornell, where there was a string of suicides not long ago.
I am not sure. I visited Columbia before, it was not that impressive. It wasn't as nice as University of Michigan, but certainly better than NYU.
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16952 Posts
I really don't like Columbia's campus ._.
(though to be fair, I've never actually done any campus tours in my life. It's just from visiting friends who go there <_<)
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On July 12 2011 14:19 Empyrean wrote:
I really don't like Columbia's campus ._.
(though to be fair, I've never actually done any campus tours in my life. It's just from visiting friends who go there <_<)
I've been to a few. Columbia is not bad, but it's really small, making it not that impressive.
It's still better than NYU, Hopkins, and CMU.
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I had similar aspirations 4 years ago and I'd like to tell you what I wish I knew back then: really focus on the personal essays. With my college application experience (Harvard-econ=no, Princeton-econ=no, Yale-econ=no, Wharton=no, MIT Sloan=no, NYU Stern=yes, and Cornell-engineering because in this case their engineering program was that much better than their business school, imo=yes), I would say that was the deciding factor (possibly also teacher recs). Grade-wise and SAT-wise, I was set, extracurrics were competitive, but in retrospect, I don't think I chose the right topics for my essays and they probably blended into all the other mind-numbing essays application offices have to read.
If you have good essays, you can get into Ivys/honorary Ivys even with average grades. I recall one guy at my high school who got into MIT with a 3.2 gpa, but radiated intelligence; grades just weren't that important to him. There's always people like that and schools know it; essays are where you can convey that in an application. With what you've said about your background (first to aspire to graduate from college, self-motivated), you have some promising, above-average material. You may think it's a bit sappy and an easy way out (at least, that's what I thought before, unfortunately) but it gets results.
Might help, might stress you out: a forum I remember many kids in my high school liked to use was collegeconfidential.com--basically this thread, extended to an entire site.
More business-school related advice: the Ivys are good but for a post-school job, internships are more important. If you're interested in working for a financial firm, yes, there are a lot of kids from UPenn, but there's also always a few kids from state schools. Just network and develop your work experience, even part-time during the semester if you can. Do consider the location of your school. (Ultimately I picked Stern over Cornell and, having since graduated with job security, I don't regret it.)
Summary: good grades/ec activities help, but the essay is what actually makes the decision. And wherever you end up going, look for good internships because in the end, school is just a means to an end. Hope this helps, feel free to PM, and good luck!
(Okay I have to defend NYU a little bit--it's location cannot be beat. I haven't even been to Columbia yet and just hearing about fellow interns' 45 min. commutes depresses me.)
Edit: Also you can try to apply as 'undeclared' to increase your chances, and then declare/transfer internally later. Wish I thought of that too.
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Hi, I'm really really curious, you say you're interested in business related stuff and looking for funding and whatnot from Harvard and other Ivy league unis, but why aren't you considering LSE? They have really amazing economics and business related professors and they have a really nice set up support scheme.
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United States42106 Posts
On July 12 2011 12:53 Demoninja wrote:Show nested quote +On July 12 2011 12:36 Sgany wrote:
Basicly we do it like this
First 7 years are your junior years
Next 5 are your middle years (These are the exams I did bad on)
Next 2 are your final years
You get points for each grade you get the max being 625 now, it just went up from 600. It means getting A1 = A+ in everything. So basicly a perfect GPA.
Sorry I'm not adding anything but I'm curious haha. If you already got a bunch of C's and only a few B's how is it possible for you to still achieve the max of 625?
As he explained the 5 middle year exams only count to see if you can do the final 2 years (if you can't you're stuck with them though). If you get to do the final 2 years then nobody cares what you got on the previous ones, they're obsolete.
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On July 12 2011 14:46 twelveapm wrote:
I had similar aspirations 4 years ago and I'd like to tell you what I wish I knew back then: really focus on the personal essays. With my college application experience (Harvard-econ=no, Princeton-econ=no, Yale-econ=no, Wharton=no, MIT Sloan=no, NYU Stern=yes, and Cornell-engineering because in this case their engineering program was that much better than their business school, imo=yes), I would say that was the deciding factor (possibly also teacher recs). Grade-wise and SAT-wise, I was set, extracurrics were competitive, but in retrospect, I don't think I chose the right topics for my essays and they probably blended into all the other mind-numbing essays application offices have to read.
If you have good essays, you can get into Ivys/honorary Ivys even with average grades. I recall one guy at my high school who got into MIT with a 3.2 gpa, but radiated intelligence; grades just weren't that important to him. There's always people like that and schools know it; essays are where you can convey that in an application. With what you've said about your background (first to aspire to graduate from college, self-motivated), you have some promising, above-average material. You may think it's a bit sappy and an easy way out (at least, that's what I thought before, unfortunately) but it gets results.
Might help, might stress you out: a forum I remember many kids in my high school liked to use was collegeconfidential.com--basically this thread, extended to an entire site.
More business-school related advice: the Ivys are good but for a post-school job, internships are more important. If you're interested in working for a financial firm, yes, there are a lot of kids from UPenn, but there's also always a few kids from state schools. Just network and develop your work experience, even part-time during the semester if you can. Do consider the location of your school. (Ultimately I picked Stern over Cornell and, having since graduated with job security, I don't regret it.)
Summary: good grades/ec activities help, but the essay is what actually makes the decision. And wherever you end up going, look for good internships because in the end, school is just a means to an end. Hope this helps, feel free to PM, and good luck!
(Okay I have to defend NYU a little bit--it's location cannot be beat. I haven't even been to Columbia yet and just hearing about fellow interns' 45 min. commutes depresses me.)
Edit: Also you can try to apply as 'undeclared' to increase your chances, and then declare/transfer internally later. Wish I thought of that too.
Now when I am not studying I will just spend all my time trying to pre-write my essay :D
Thank you too everyone who has commented, it has been a great help
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Where does the extra 35 points from? I didn't realise they'd changed the layout.
If you can max out your exam results and you write a decent personal statement you should have no problem getting into Oxbridge. I got given a conditional offer which was pretty easy, A1 in maths, Physics and Applied Maths. I ended up turning it down and going to Trinity instead however.
As for Ivy League I have no idea, but you seem to have gotten decent advice from other people
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the Dagon Knight4002 Posts
On July 12 2011 20:26 deconduo wrote:
Where does the extra 35 points from? I didn't realise they'd changed the layout.
I believe he is including the bonus offered by some colleges for those who achieve high results in both honours maths and applied maths, though there could be some other numerical witchcraft at work here that I'm not aware of
On July 12 2011 12:17 Sgany wrote:
The reason I done so bad was that I went to a bad school and the system in the UK means that there is two test tiers and I was forced to do the lower papers as the teachers could not teach the higher tier stuff to the class.
So, if I'm understanding this correctly, you were forced to do easier papers and you still managed to score poorly?
[You mean to say "did" so "badly" here]
On July 12 2011 12:36 Sgany wrote:
Basicly we do it like this
On July 12 2011 11:55 Sgany wrote:
Due to different education systems I cannot see the Cs effecting my that much due to it basicly my "middle school" grades.
On July 12 2011 11:07 Sgany wrote:
For the last year I have been fixated with going into an Ivy League College (or Stanford) or going to Cambridge or Oxford in my native UK.
To start of I am 17 year old male from an average family in the UnitedKingdom ... I moreless plan to achieve 635 points total which is the highest amount of points you can earn in the Irish education system. I am also planning to sit SAT and two SAT IIs, achieving near max marks in all of them hopefully. I know this sounds arrogant to say I am going to get the highest marks possible but it what I feel I need to do, and I am going to invest the time needed to do so, even if that means rarely leaving my room.
[deletia]
I have been getting very bad paranoia if I fail to get into one of these universities that I will be unable to forget about it as it is what I see as my main goal in life. My parents honestly do not seem to care at all, moreless calling me stupid for attempting to get into any of these universities.
As someone who has sat an Irish leaving certificate, I have to ask: Do you worry that your issues with English writing might cost you your 635 points? Marks are deducted for poor grammar, spelling and punctuation.
This isn't meant to be inflammatory, just a question.
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On July 12 2011 14:54 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On July 12 2011 12:53 Demoninja wrote:On July 12 2011 12:36 Sgany wrote:
Basicly we do it like this
First 7 years are your junior years
Next 5 are your middle years (These are the exams I did bad on)
Next 2 are your final years
You get points for each grade you get the max being 625 now, it just went up from 600. It means getting A1 = A+ in everything. So basicly a perfect GPA.
Sorry I'm not adding anything but I'm curious haha. If you already got a bunch of C's and only a few B's how is it possible for you to still achieve the max of 625? As he explained the 5 middle year exams only count to see if you can do the final 2 years (if you can't you're stuck with them though). If you get to do the final 2 years then nobody cares what you got on the previous ones, they're obsolete.
Sorry, only one thing I disagree with here. Oxford especially takes a very strong look at your GCSE grades. Cambridge on the other hand looks more are your specialized test, ie your STEP/BMAT etc.
With regards to the maximum score thing. There are two tiers of paper, so say you are doing Maths. There will be a higher tier paper, and a foundation tier paper. Higher obviously including more things in the curriculum and being harder. If you were to achieve full marks in the foundation paper, you get a (C?) whereas if you achieve full marks in the higher paper, you would get the highest grade (A*)
I think what the OP is saying is that because of the bad school he went to, the teachers were only able to teach up to foundation level and therefore the highest grade he could possibly get was a C.
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On July 12 2011 20:29 SirJolt wrote:Show nested quote +On July 12 2011 20:26 deconduo wrote:
Where does the extra 35 points from? I didn't realise they'd changed the layout.
I believe he is including the bonus offered by some colleges for those who achieve high results in both honours maths and applied maths, though there could be some other numerical witchcraft at work here that I'm not aware of Show nested quote +On July 12 2011 12:17 Sgany wrote:
The reason I done so bad was that I went to a bad school and the system in the UK means that there is two test tiers and I was forced to do the lower papers as the teachers could not teach the higher tier stuff to the class. So, if I'm understanding this correctly, you were forced to do easier papers and you still managed to score poorly?[You mean to say "did" so "badly" here] Show nested quote +On July 12 2011 11:55 Sgany wrote:
Due to different education systems I cannot see the Cs effecting my that much due to it basicly my "middle school" grades.
Show nested quote +On July 12 2011 11:07 Sgany wrote:
For the last year I have been fixated with going into an Ivy League College (or Stanford) or going to Cambridge or Oxford in my native UK.
To start of I am 17 year old male from an average family in the UnitedKingdom ... I moreless plan to achieve 635 points total which is the highest amount of points you can earn in the Irish education system. I am also planning to sit SAT and two SAT IIs, achieving near max marks in all of them hopefully. I know this sounds arrogant to say I am going to get the highest marks possible but it what I feel I need to do, and I am going to invest the time needed to do so, even if that means rarely leaving my room.
[deletia]
I have been getting very bad paranoia if I fail to get into one of these universities that I will be unable to forget about it as it is what I see as my main goal in life. My parents honestly do not seem to care at all, moreless calling me stupid for attempting to get into any of these universities.
As someone who has sat an Irish leaving certificate, I have to ask: Do you worry that your issues with English writing might cost you your 635 points? Marks are deducted for poor grammar, spelling and punctuation. This isn't meant to be inflammatory, just a question.
The highest possible grade you can get in the lower paper of every subject is C you cannot get higher, the only subject which has no tiers is History which was probably my weakest subject and I got a high B in it, with very little revision/work done for it.
My English writing is pretty poor I'll admit that but I wrote the blog around 2am - 4am in the morning while pretty tired, I did not spell check it or read it, like I would for something which is going to be marked for spelling and grammar.
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- You will not be able to afford university abroad. International student fees are astronomical.
- Extracurricular activities are hugely important when it comes to getting into Ivy League schools. The applicants all have amazing marks, so EC is the only way to separate them.
- Harvard is a beautiful campus. If I were to go to MIT for graduate studies I would go straight there or to UCLA, which is amazingly beautiful.
- School environment only means anything if you're in a bullshit (read: non-technical) program and have the spare time to participate in anything.
- Schools frown upon educational gaps. I heard a story just last night of a girl who didn't get into Waterloo because she took grade 12 twice to improve her marks. She's now going to McMaster...
- What school you go to means everything to employers. Where you get your degree will instantly put you ahead of other applicants because it reflects on the effort you put into getting into and completing your education at that school.
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To get into Oxbridge you'll want to start doing as many EC activities as you can. DoE is the standard one that everyone does, basically you want activities that both show you're passionate about your chosen subject, but also ones that show there's more to you then academic ability.
If you aim slightly lower, so top universities aside from Oxbride and Imperial, the standards are a lot lower. Normal EC activities and good grades are enough, I applied this year for Maths & Physics with predicted grades of AAB, but a fairly poor application apart from them, and got offers from Manchester, Glasgow, Nottingham, Cardiff and got rejected from Bristol.
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let me tell you as one of the people who attend one of the schools that you mentioned in the OP:
don't worry about it too much but make sure you make up for it during college.
doing well in "mediocre" college >>>>> doing badly in a top college
this is true for almost all industries (mayyybe except for in business). and you can always go to a prestigious grad school.
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Ivy Leagues are not the source of success. It all boils down to you. A lot of people attend these schools but by the end of their careers, only make 150k. This is a lot of money, but for all the trouble and money spent on the education itself, it pales in comparison since many many more poeple make that exact same amount through hard work and determination. So really, just find what you love in life and put yourself behind that and you will succeed. Ivy Leagues are a great start, but certainly not everything!
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This reminds me of those ads that try to convince you that Bayer is better than aspirin, so that you'll pay more for it. "I've got to get into a top 20 school!" WTF is a top 20 school, and who cares? The quality of your education depends entirely upon you and the effort you choose to put into it, but I guess their self-created image is a good way to get people to blow hundreds of thousands of dollars attending these places.
People are claiming you can go to Harvard for free? That sounds mind-numbingly stupid to me and my brain can't even comprehend it right now. All I'm trying to say is don't buy into the hype, and don't kick your own ass trying to get there. You will be much better off investing your time in learning some marketable skills for the real (job) world. Anyone who puts a lot of weight on which piece of paper came from which university probably won't have a large impact on your life. If you are just a workaholic then I guess have fun studying all day long. Do you even play starcraft?
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Do something.
No, seriously, just go out there and find some online business club or whatnot or project (there must be at least a few), join up and do something.
Offer to intern. Have a family member that runs a business? Go help them, research and make a plan for their "company." Write it up formally, propose it to them and then keep track of how it effects their business.
Tie all of that stuff together with a pretty bow and you'll get into whatever business school you want, as long as your test scores support it decently.
Schools are much, much more impressed by self-motivated projects in the field than they are by a few private school courses.
HOWEVER, do make sure you take all classes that fulfill the college's suggested requirements (whatever it may be: calculus, 3 years of foreign language, etc).
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On July 13 2011 02:09 jdseemoreglass wrote:
This reminds me of those ads that try to convince you that Bayer is better than aspirin, so that you'll pay more for it. "I've got to get into a top 20 school!" WTF is a top 20 school, and who cares? The quality of your education depends entirely upon you and the effort you choose to put into it, but I guess their self-created image is a good way to get people to blow hundreds of thousands of dollars attending these places.
People are claiming you can go to Harvard for free? That sounds mind-numbingly stupid to me and my brain can't even comprehend it right now. All I'm trying to say is don't buy into the hype, and don't kick your own ass trying to get there. You will be much better off investing your time in learning some marketable skills for the real (job) world. Anyone who puts a lot of weight on which piece of paper came from which university probably won't have a large impact on your life. If you are just a workaholic then I guess have fun studying all day long. Do you even play starcraft?
Actually, big name schools provide many full-ride scholarships due to the absurd amount of money they get from their alumni.
I know that my family is pretty well off, but I wouldn't have had to pay tuition if I had decided to go to Stanford (if your parents make less than $80k or $100k combined, I forget which, your tuition is waved).
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On July 12 2011 21:08 GoDLy MD wrote:Show nested quote +On July 12 2011 14:54 KwarK wrote:On July 12 2011 12:53 Demoninja wrote:On July 12 2011 12:36 Sgany wrote:
Basicly we do it like this
First 7 years are your junior years
Next 5 are your middle years (These are the exams I did bad on)
Next 2 are your final years
You get points for each grade you get the max being 625 now, it just went up from 600. It means getting A1 = A+ in everything. So basicly a perfect GPA.
Sorry I'm not adding anything but I'm curious haha. If you already got a bunch of C's and only a few B's how is it possible for you to still achieve the max of 625? As he explained the 5 middle year exams only count to see if you can do the final 2 years (if you can't you're stuck with them though). If you get to do the final 2 years then nobody cares what you got on the previous ones, they're obsolete. Sorry, only one thing I disagree with here. Oxford especially takes a very strong look at your GCSE grades. Cambridge on the other hand looks more are your specialized test, ie your STEP/BMAT etc. With regards to the maximum score thing. There are two tiers of paper, so say you are doing Maths. There will be a higher tier paper, and a foundation tier paper. Higher obviously including more things in the curriculum and being harder. If you were to achieve full marks in the foundation paper, you get a (C?) whereas if you achieve full marks in the higher paper, you would get the highest grade (A*) I think what the OP is saying is that because of the bad school he went to, the teachers were only able to teach up to foundation level and therefore the highest grade he could possibly get was a C.
I know people at oxford with Bs and Cs at GCSE *shrug* as long as you´ve got your 4 or so As at A level and impress them at interview (the most important thing really) (+ ace whatever subject exam they give you) you´ll be fine i think, overall I think people in this thread are vastly exagerating the importance of his GCSE results, do unis in the US really look at your middle school grades ? :s
My advice for the OP is that should make a bigger deal than you seem to about whether you should study in the UK or the US. The systems are very different, the american major and minor style seem to be very compartmentalised, meaning you take individual courses (maybe 4-6 each term?) and are examined on each one. This gives you greater freedom to shape your education the way you want it and you also get to do some stuff completely unrelated to your major.
On the other hand the exams are smaller and more frequent which favour a memorise and forget sort of learning you also probably won't get to specialise to the same degree should that be what you want.
In the UK you'll be doing the subject they accepted you for and only that. This leads to greater depth but in return you are pretty screwed if you end up not liking your subject.
Also (at least in oxford but I assume everywhere) you often have (depends a bit on subject) one set of exams for a three year course. In my oppinion this strongly encourges actually understanding your subject to a deeper level and you also don't need to constantly waste time throughout every single year for pure exam preparation but can again focus on learning.
On the other hand if you crack under pressure once finally sitting the exam then bam there you stand with a 2.2 and 3 wasted years.
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Here is the thing.
I studied in Toronto, and from my highschool (#1 public school in the province), only 1 made to Harvard. Even that is amazing. now, he had the highest mark in the entire province in one of the hardest academic school, + robotics club + math club + etc etc
pretty much, he was a genius.
Either you have to be an absolute genius or you have to REALLY stand out. there are THOUSANDS applying to ivy league, and only a handful gets in. They ALL have similar scores, so who will they pick? the outstanding ones.
My recommendation is, stop dreaming.
undergrad at ivy league is crazy expensive for international students. of course, if you are outstanding, these schools pay for your tuition entirely. but thats not easy.
You should aim for TOP TIER universities in the states or the UK that is NOT Ivy league (Like, not Harvard MIT UC Berk Yale Stanford etc)
UPenn Cornell Toronto NYU Chicago Columbia and bunch of other Engineering strength universities will do. go to QS or Times University ranking and check out the top 20 schools. if you do well in undergrad, you can definitely make to ivy league Grad school.
Regardless, you really need to stand out, so try to have an impressive resume for the application.
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Finances should also definitely be taken into consideration. If your family income is lower to middle class income, I know harvard and yale provide very good aid. Then it may be worth working hard for, because you get the chance to study abroad while paying low tuition.
Otherwise, it's definitely not worth dishing out 200k+ . I read that the tuition for cambridge is less than 9k a year (and was like under 4k in the past). Shit, compared to the u.s that's really really cheap.
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You're fucked.
You have C's and B's on your transcripts that these colleges are going to see. Unless your family is giving hundreds of thousands to these schools there is pretty much no chance of you getting in. Sorry bro but that's just reality, I'd start looking somewhere else and maybe kick ass at some other college in hopes of going to a good grad school; because it is probably too late for you to try and get in these top schools.
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I passed on Ivy League price tag to go to local public school. Best decision I ever made (monetary wise). Now I'm studying Law in America at a relatively good school.
The school you go to does not define you. It really doesn't.
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Also, the whole idea of "get into the best school you can" is absolutely retarded. Jobs are all about connections.
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My friend that got in to cornell had straight a's for all of high school, was first chair violin for an award winning private orchestra, did research and volunteer work for over 20 hours a week at the largest aquarium in connecticut, biked across the united states from georgia to california twice, and was an eagle scout.
My friend that got in to Oxford had straight a's for all of high school, won an international IBM programming contest, did lab work and testing for a fortune 500 cosmetics company in new york city, and was captain of the robotics and math team.
Just to give you an idea of the competition you'll be up against
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C's and 2 B's
sorry but you've got no chance whatsoever unless you want to resit all of your GCSE's until you get all A*'s or A's
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Pretty much my whole family has been told that without a line of A*'s for GCSE behind your Oxbridge application or something seriously shit-hot in the extra-curricular department it will be very difficult, not impossible though. That said, you get 6 UCAS choices so there's really no harm in trying anyway.
However UCL / Imperial / KCL / LSE would be worth a shot, they are all really pretty equal academically although UCL probably has the most diverse crowd being more into arts and humanities than the other 3. I personally can't see it making a huge difference job wise (although someone in business can fell free to correct me).
The best extracurricular thing you could probably do based on my experice from Medicine and my sisters from Economics & Architecture is to get some kind of experience in what you are going to study. Then you can genuinely talk about why you think it's awesome, what you have done etc etc.
edit: I cannot say how the UK Golden Triangle universities compare to the US Ivy League on a global scale. Should be fairly even though and I'm curious to know.
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On July 13 2011 07:30 MoonfireSpam wrote:
Pretty much my whole family has been told that without a line of A*'s for GCSE behind your Oxbridge application or something seriously shit-hot in the extra-curricular department it will be very difficult, not impossible though. That said, you get 6 UCAS choices so there's really no harm in trying anyway.
However UCL / Imperial / KCL / LSE would be worth a shot, they are all really pretty equal academically although UCL probably has the most diverse crowd being more into arts and humanities than the other 3. I personally can't see it making a huge difference job wise (although someone in business can fell free to correct me).
The best extracurricular thing you could probably do based on my experice from Medicine and my sisters from Economics & Architecture is to get some kind of experience in what you are going to study. Then you can genuinely talk about why you think it's awesome, what you have done etc etc.
edit: I cannot say how the UK Golden Triangle universities compare to the US Ivy League on a global scale. Should be fairly even though and I'm curious to know.
Please don't compare kings to Imperial/UCL/LSE...the students of the latter would be gravely offended. For medicine at least, kings is nowhere near Imperial/UCL.
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after reading through your posts a few more times its clear you're delusional and have no idea what it actually takes to get into these schools and have clearly not researched it properly, do not get yourself worked up and worried about something that is beyond you and move on with your life
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On July 13 2011 05:26 BluePanther wrote:
Also, the whole idea of "get into the best school you can" is absolutely retarded. Jobs are all about connections.
Good schools bring you good connections...
Also, if your area of study isn't standardized across all schools (like some masters programs), then the quality of your professors and the program is important as well.
Good school isn't always most important though. I know in Law (edit: in Canada) the school that is closest to where you want to practice law is generally speaking the best choice, as it affords you the opportunity to network that wouldn't exist in a long-distance education scenario.
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On July 13 2011 07:37 GoDLy MD wrote:Show nested quote +On July 13 2011 07:30 MoonfireSpam wrote:
Pretty much my whole family has been told that without a line of A*'s for GCSE behind your Oxbridge application or something seriously shit-hot in the extra-curricular department it will be very difficult, not impossible though. That said, you get 6 UCAS choices so there's really no harm in trying anyway.
However UCL / Imperial / KCL / LSE would be worth a shot, they are all really pretty equal academically although UCL probably has the most diverse crowd being more into arts and humanities than the other 3. I personally can't see it making a huge difference job wise (although someone in business can fell free to correct me).
The best extracurricular thing you could probably do based on my experice from Medicine and my sisters from Economics & Architecture is to get some kind of experience in what you are going to study. Then you can genuinely talk about why you think it's awesome, what you have done etc etc.
edit: I cannot say how the UK Golden Triangle universities compare to the US Ivy League on a global scale. Should be fairly even though and I'm curious to know.
Please don't compare kings to Imperial/UCL/LSE...the students of the latter would be gravely offended. For medicine at least, kings is nowhere near Imperial/UCL.
Medicine as far as I thought was not really affected by your undergrad school (barring personal bias) at any level of work or am I mis informed?
Anyways, I don't really hang out with people that think that way, they tend to be less fun than other folks
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Also, I am not sure why OP does not want any other universities in UK. In my opinion (from someone in North America), UCL, Nottingham, Edinburgh, Glasgow, and LSE are awesome schools... I don't look down on them at all. If you want to go to professional schools or graduate schools after your undergraduate degree, these schools will definitely pave your way there.
Considering your family is considerably poor, I think a postgraduate degree will do you good. With that in mind, just attend a reasonably good public university and avoid getting in debt. Your worth will probably come from your postgraduate education anyways.
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On July 13 2011 08:18 Sufficiency wrote:
Also, I am not sure why OP does not want any other universities in UK. In my opinion (from someone in North America), UCL, Nottingham, Edinburgh, Glasgow, and LSE are awesome schools... I don't look down on them at all. If you want to go to professional schools or graduate schools after your undergraduate degree, these schools will definitely pave your way there.
Considering your family is considerably poor, I think a postgraduate degree will do you good. With that in mind, just attend a reasonably good public university and avoid getting in debt. Your worth will probably come from your postgraduate education anyways.
I'm not poor. I would love to attend one of the many outstanding London universities without a doubt and would happily aim for them, if my chances at Ivy/Oxbridge are so bad I will just aim for LSE, UCL, etc and then hope to go to Oxbridge/Ivy with outstanding graduate results. (I have never really been interested in going to Scotland to exam, and would prefer to be in a capital city or a campus near a massive city.) Out of my own pocket I could pay for myself to go to any UK university.
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On July 13 2011 08:22 Sgany wrote:Show nested quote +On July 13 2011 08:18 Sufficiency wrote:
Also, I am not sure why OP does not want any other universities in UK. In my opinion (from someone in North America), UCL, Nottingham, Edinburgh, Glasgow, and LSE are awesome schools... I don't look down on them at all. If you want to go to professional schools or graduate schools after your undergraduate degree, these schools will definitely pave your way there.
Considering your family is considerably poor, I think a postgraduate degree will do you good. With that in mind, just attend a reasonably good public university and avoid getting in debt. Your worth will probably come from your postgraduate education anyways. I'm not poor. I would love to attend one of the many outstanding London universities without a doubt and would happily aim for them, if my chances at Ivy/Oxbridge are so bad I will just aim for LSE, UCL, etc and then hope to go to Oxbridge/Ivy with outstanding graduate results. (I have never really been interested in going to Scotland to exam, and would prefer to be in a capital city or a campus near a massive city.) Out of my own pocket I could pay for myself to go to any UK university.
Sorry I may have understood. You said your parents don't want to shell out a single penny for you. In that case, it would be terribly hard for you to support yourself in the US without any kinds of scholarships... since you will be looking at about 30k-60k per year USD for tuition alone (for international). A Canadian school will cost about 10k-20k per year for tuition alone (for international).
My opinion is that shelling out that much money for undergraduate is not worth it (shelling that much for professional school, however, may be worth it). So yes, it seems to me that you should focus on getting into any reasonably good college that won't cost an arm and a leg, then consider graduate school as you go along.
Furthermore, since you are still in high school, it's difficult to say right now what you want to do now is what you want to do in the future. It's quite common for people to switch major in their undergrad. You may also discover new things, etc.
Anyways good luck. If I were you, I'd just make sure I at least get into a mid-high tier public school in the UK.
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United States10774 Posts
meh, you need to grow up. i chose my school based on actually visiting them and matching it with what i want to do with life. blindly choosing these schools ahead of time seems pointless to me. (it is also useless to set meaningless goals, such as getting to harvard business school, without even thinking about why you would want to or realizing what it would take to get there.) to me, it seems like you are obsessed with going to these schools just for the sake of doing so, without even thinking about why.
keep in mind that what you do at the school (regardless of its ranking on us news) matters so much more than the brand name. some of my close friends went to prestigious universities around the country yet have failed to make a use of that education because they thought attending those universities solved everything. please think practically and take a second to ponder what and why you want it. and to let you know that im not bitter about this ranking business, i go to a top 10 u.s. school for what it's worth.
On July 12 2011 11:48 RedJustice wrote:I have not attended school there, so I am sure I am no authority. However, my ex went to MIT (which is rather close to Harvard), so I have met quite a few kids from there. My impression of them are spoiled rich kids being pampered by an institution more interested in keeping money families around than encouraging a solid academic environment. Traditionally they do accept a great deal of legacies (and then some token poor smart kids).
I suppose it depends on the kind of person you are, but if you are looking for a happy environment that is academically focused with smart-but-still-normal people, I would recommend against
Harvard (for reasons listed above; also if you are seriously interested in business, Wharton is better than Harvard)
Columbia (every transfer student I know here at Penn came from Columbia cause they hated it and said it was a depressing campus. Not sure how the suicide rates compare, but I seem to recall news articles from time to time about students committing suicide there.)
Yale (similar reasons to Harvard, though a bit less)
lol is this serious? don't listen to bullshit advice like this. i thought by the time you got to college you would be wise enough to not say empty statements about schools based on unsubstantial "evidence."
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On July 13 2011 08:22 Sgany wrote:Show nested quote +On July 13 2011 08:18 Sufficiency wrote:
Also, I am not sure why OP does not want any other universities in UK. In my opinion (from someone in North America), UCL, Nottingham, Edinburgh, Glasgow, and LSE are awesome schools... I don't look down on them at all. If you want to go to professional schools or graduate schools after your undergraduate degree, these schools will definitely pave your way there.
Considering your family is considerably poor, I think a postgraduate degree will do you good. With that in mind, just attend a reasonably good public university and avoid getting in debt. Your worth will probably come from your postgraduate education anyways. I'm not poor. I would love to attend one of the many outstanding London universities without a doubt and would happily aim for them, if my chances at Ivy/Oxbridge are so bad I will just aim for LSE, UCL, etc and then hope to go to Oxbridge/Ivy with outstanding graduate results. (I have never really been interested in going to Scotland to exam, and would prefer to be in a capital city or a campus near a massive city.) Out of my own pocket I could pay for myself to go to any UK university.
the most important thing is are you actually getting the results required to get you even into LSE, UCL etc just saying it doesnt matter it is all about hard work and saying that you'll get outstanding graduate results and go later when you havent even done well at the easiest level of education in the UK so step up your work and stop living a fantasy
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On July 13 2011 09:25 Telebear wrote:Show nested quote +On July 13 2011 08:22 Sgany wrote:On July 13 2011 08:18 Sufficiency wrote:
Also, I am not sure why OP does not want any other universities in UK. In my opinion (from someone in North America), UCL, Nottingham, Edinburgh, Glasgow, and LSE are awesome schools... I don't look down on them at all. If you want to go to professional schools or graduate schools after your undergraduate degree, these schools will definitely pave your way there.
Considering your family is considerably poor, I think a postgraduate degree will do you good. With that in mind, just attend a reasonably good public university and avoid getting in debt. Your worth will probably come from your postgraduate education anyways. I'm not poor. I would love to attend one of the many outstanding London universities without a doubt and would happily aim for them, if my chances at Ivy/Oxbridge are so bad I will just aim for LSE, UCL, etc and then hope to go to Oxbridge/Ivy with outstanding graduate results. (I have never really been interested in going to Scotland to exam, and would prefer to be in a capital city or a campus near a massive city.) Out of my own pocket I could pay for myself to go to any UK university. the most important thing is are you actually getting the results required to get you even into LSE, UCL etc just saying it doesnt matter it is all about hard work and saying that you'll get outstanding graduate results and go later when you havent even done well at the easiest level of education in the UK so step up your work and stop living a fantasy
I'll get the grades I need for any university in the UK you can hold me to that, come back to me in 2hours and ask if I have and I will. *I have told too many people that I will get the highest possible to not get the highest possible*
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Pinning your hopes on getting into a Top X school is just asking for disappointment. College admissions are so incredibly random - they have to sift through so many applicants that they have to reject high quality candidates. In most professions, the school you went to isn't relevant (as long as it's a decent college/university), and that's especially true after you get your first job.
I think for some professions it might matter some (grad schools, law, medicine), but you will be *way* happier if you find a school you know you'll be happy at.
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As some people have already stated: It's far more important to what graduate school you go than to what undergrad. So you might consider going to a decent but affordable university first and switching to some high profile university for your masters.
Also:
On July 13 2011 10:34 Bortlett wrote:
Pinning your hopes on getting into a Top X school is just asking for disappointment. College admissions are so incredibly random - they have to sift through so many applicants that they have to reject high quality candidates. In most professions, the school you went to isn't relevant (as long as it's a decent college/university), and that's especially true after you get your first job.
I think for some professions it might matter some (grad schools, law, medicine), but you will be *way* happier if you find a school you know you'll be happy at.
A friend of mine from Bulgaria applied to MIT, CalTech and a few other top universities in the states. He had basically perfect grades from high school (which was arguably the top Bulgarian high school (if this matters at all)), was on the Bulgarian national students' Physics team and went to a world-wide competition in South Korea, scored max on the SATs for Physics, Chemistry and Mathematics, but still wasn't accepted anywhere... So the admissions process truly is very hard (and somewhat "random" I'd say) at those top universities in the US.
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On July 13 2011 09:30 Sgany wrote:
I'll get the grades I need for any university in the UK you can hold me to that, come back to me in 2hours and ask if I have and I will. *I have told too many people that I will get the highest possible to not get the highest possible*
so how much work are you putting in a day in order to get these grades because you need to basically forget about your life for the next 2 years or however long if you want to get those grades because full marks is an almost impossible feat and judging by your gcse results you're not naturally clever enough to do it withouth an absurd amount of work and effort into your studies just telling people you'll do it means fuck all
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On July 13 2011 22:37 Telebear wrote:Show nested quote +On July 13 2011 09:30 Sgany wrote:
I'll get the grades I need for any university in the UK you can hold me to that, come back to me in 2hours and ask if I have and I will. *I have told too many people that I will get the highest possible to not get the highest possible* so how much work are you putting in a day in order to get these grades because you need to basically forget about your life for the next 2 years or however long if you want to get those grades because full marks is an almost impossible feat and judging by your gcse results you're not naturally clever enough to do it withouth an absurd amount of work and effort into your studies just telling people you'll do it means fuck all
I achieved 100% in nearly everyone of my GCSEs my only downfall which was my history which I admittently put no effort in and I was the only person in my year from that school to actually pass it, so the standard of teaching for it was pretty low. All I do not asides for watching GSL mornings and the other major starcraft tournaments is study and read so I am putting the effort into it.
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On July 12 2011 11:07 Sgany wrote:For the last year I have been fixated with going into an Ivy League College (or Stanford) or going to Cambridge or Oxford in my native UK. To start of I am 17 year old male from an average family in the UnitedKingdom. After doing my GCSEs and getting all passes but mostly C's and 2 B's, I moved down to Ireland and as of September I will be starting school down in Ireland studying. Subjects studying are: English Maths Applied Maths Physics Biology Economics Business I moreless plan to achieve 625 points total which is the highest amount of points you can earn in the Irish education system. I am also planning to sit SAT and two SAT IIs, achieving near max marks in all of them hopefully. I know this sounds arrogant to say I am going to get the highest marks possible but it what I feel I need to do, and I am going to invest the time needed to do so, even if that means rarely leaving my room. My issue comes when it comes to EC and other awards, in the UK and Ireland there seems to be little I can actually do outside Science rewards and Sports, since I plan to major/study Business it seems they would help me very little. Recently I have been losing lots of sleep not knowing what to do, I have been thinking of going abroad to South Korea to study at a SKY summer school for a month for the next 2 summers as this would give some sort of achievement I could put down. (We could not have a TL blog without Korea being involved could we now ) I have been thinking of asking my parents if they would be able to pay for me to attend a private school which could perhaps offer me more support for my high aims and they also seem to provide additional EC such as Model UN etc. My parents however are not very supportive of me in any of this, I have yet to ask them for money to go to a private school as they do not even support me wanting to go study abroad for a summer even if I pay for it myself, which I am able to do. I have been getting very bad paranoia if I fail to get into one of these universities that I will be unable to forget about it as it is what I see as my main goal in life. My parents honestly do not seem to care at all, moreless calling me stupid for attempting to get into any of these universities. Currently I do not know what to do
Consider sometimes your parents are very right. Consider everybody here is telling you to get a reality check, and consider that pretty much every teenager wants to prove everybody wrong, and consider the fact that you really do appear fixated. Fixation on something grandiose is a problem. You can dream big, but get results first and then you can come back here start planning your finances seriously, because you will have absolutely no money to fund this without scholarships. And then start thinking what you really want to do because you may find the experience disconcerting. You're thinking too much on what you can get and not enough on the actual work before you've jumped in.
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On July 13 2011 23:56 rabidch wrote:
Consider sometimes your parents are very right. Consider everybody here is telling you to get a reality check, and consider that pretty much every teenager wants to prove everybody wrong, and consider the fact that you really do appear fixated. Fixation on something grandiose is a problem. You can dream big, but get results first and then you can come back here start planning your finances seriously, because you will have absolutely no money to fund this without scholarships. And then start thinking what you really want to do because you may find the experience disconcerting. You're thinking too much on what you can get and not enough on the actual work before you've jumped in.
This is exactly right. Do your best work and then go to the best place the situation allows when the time comes. Don't set your sights on an extremely high goal and then allow yourself to be disappointed if you don't make it.
You shouldn't be worrying so much about where you're going to end up right now, you should be working hard and doing good work.
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On July 12 2011 11:07 Sgany wrote:For the last year I have been fixated with going into an Ivy League College (or Stanford) or going to Cambridge or Oxford in my native UK. To start of I am 17 year old male from an average family in the UnitedKingdom. After doing my GCSEs and getting all passes but mostly C's and 2 B's, I moved down to Ireland and as of September I will be starting school down in Ireland studying. Subjects studying are: English Maths Applied Maths Physics Biology Economics Business I moreless plan to achieve 625 points total which is the highest amount of points you can earn in the Irish education system. I am also planning to sit SAT and two SAT IIs, achieving near max marks in all of them hopefully. I know this sounds arrogant to say I am going to get the highest marks possible but it what I feel I need to do, and I am going to invest the time needed to do so, even if that means rarely leaving my room. My issue comes when it comes to EC and other awards, in the UK and Ireland there seems to be little I can actually do outside Science rewards and Sports, since I plan to major/study Business it seems they would help me very little. Recently I have been losing lots of sleep not knowing what to do, I have been thinking of going abroad to South Korea to study at a SKY summer school for a month for the next 2 summers as this would give some sort of achievement I could put down. (We could not have a TL blog without Korea being involved could we now ) I have been thinking of asking my parents if they would be able to pay for me to attend a private school which could perhaps offer me more support for my high aims and they also seem to provide additional EC such as Model UN etc. My parents however are not very supportive of me in any of this, I have yet to ask them for money to go to a private school as they do not even support me wanting to go study abroad for a summer even if I pay for it myself, which I am able to do. I have been getting very bad paranoia if I fail to get into one of these universities that I will be unable to forget about it as it is what I see as my main goal in life. My parents honestly do not seem to care at all, moreless calling me stupid for attempting to get into any of these universities. Currently I do not know what to do
I know a lot of people have already replied to this thread saying you need to stop fixating yourself with Harvard and Stanford, glorifying them and making a illogical straight drive towards them. I don't want to repeat their message too much. I know I'm not from the UK, but from the standpoint of a student applying for college, I have a lot of firsthand experience. I am 17 going on 18, and I applied to all those schools you were talking about last year.
+ Show Spoiler +On July 12 2011 11:48 RedJustice wrote:Qualifications: I am currently at UPenn. Basically I have a very very poor family, and went to a terrible school where many kids drop out and almost no one makes it through college. I knew this would not reflect well on my application so: - I got very top grades in all of my classes. (not hard at a crappy school) - I got very very good scores on the ACT and SAT. (You only need to take the SAT) - I studied on my own for 12 AP courses, and got good scores on most of them. - I worked a job during high school in tech support. (any job is good because it shows you can balance your time with school work if you keep up your grades) - I volunteered at my church and in the summer to go to natural disaster sites. - I participated in the academic competitions every Saturday for my school. - I played classical piano for 12 years. I think most important was my entrance essays. I spoke about my desire for a diverse environment of peers and classes, where I could explore anything I wanted to learn about. This is basically exactly the kind of school Penn is. I then explained how I could contribute to the environment the school has, by talking about how I have a unique perspective from having moved 13 times and gotten to see many different places and people. You need to get good grades and good scores. (Good, not perfect or genius, just good.) You need to do a few things outside of class. (A few, not 20.) And you need to convince the school you apply to that you are as good a fit for them as they are for you. I suggest you take some time to revise this ridiculous idea that you seem to have about getting into any school as long as it is in the top 20 or so. Find the schools that are the best fit for you (2 or 3), and tailor your applications and aims towards them. Your chances will be much better, and you will be much happier. I wanted to come to Penn since I was 14. I spent all of high school with the goal of getting in to Penn. I never once considered another school as a school I was interested in, and I only applied to Penn (I did apply through a special program where I got accepted at the end of October, so there was still time to submit to other schools if I was rejected. Not completely stupid. ). Because my goal was extremely narrow and focused, I was very successful. Stop panicking. Pick a school or two. Make a plan. Carry it out.
Grades, I wasn't as good as Redjustice up there, and I didn't have to go to a terrible high school. I scored mostly 5s on my 9 Aps, 800s on my sat ii's, over 2300 sat, played varsity sports, had numerous internships and leadership positions and won an international science competition. I didn't make HYP, and I got waitlisted (they took practicallly no one this year off waitlist anyway) by Stanford. I made all the UC's and was given Regent's scholarships and Honors program offers. I decided to go to UCLA.
I'm not bitter about not making these "TOP" schools because I know now that I'm not the kind of person they're looking for. I showed them neither some exceptional talent nor a specific quality that would show that I'm the kind of student they WANT to have on campus. I could just be another person who sits in his room, studying his books to get the grades, dreaming of but never actually seeing the gates of the Ivies.
Right now you are already 17, and the application process will be looming over you soon. You have only a few months to FIND a specific extracurricular that sets you apart.
But you already said there's nothing but science competitions or sports. That mindset alone, that nothing is setting you apart, is toxic. I also think getting hung up on the BEST schools as your only future in which you will succeed, and being anxious about it is a dangerous mindset. You really do have to make the decision with you eyes and brain rather than this gut feeling that you have to go to Cambridge/Oxford/Harvard.
You haven't seen the schools yourself and decided if you like it there? I went to visit Harvard, and I almost drowned in the snot-nosed elitism of the promotional video they showed while I sat there for hours waiting for a chance to ask questions to the Harvard presenter. (Nothing against the undergrads just the way Harvard admissions office promotional material portrays the school) Stanford was awesome though <3, I can understand why you'd want to apply there. HYP campuses are all gorgeous, and the professors are famous and well-connected while many of the kids are also from rich families. That sounds great, but that's really the only draw and you have to pay out of your ass for it.
When I was where you were right now, 17 and about to apply for college, I already knew that, even with my great numbers I was lacking some of the traits they wanted to see in their essays, interviews, and recommendations. I applied anyway because the application and transcript fee was marginal compared to the finality of an actual decision. However, in retrospect, that time was better spent on other things.
Even though I was so anxious about applying for college just a year ago, what I really remember over the past year was the friends I had met doing both old and new activities, hanging out w/ my fellow high school seniors before we all graduated. I took part in the play, the musical, I shot an amateur film, and I played a crapload of games. The anxiety no longer bothers me, now I just remember how great high school was. Go out and enjoy your life as much as your studies allow. It's a lot better than having your head in the clouds.
Do what you can and be proud of it. I wish you well, the application process is never easy.
TL;DR: Stop freaking out about Ivies. Do what you need to do, and really consider who you are. That's the most positive aspect of being a college applicant, self-discovery.
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You're not a rich international student or an even richer student schooled in Britain so I wouldn't bother applying to LSE.
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I'll throw in my two cents. I'm an Ivy League graduate and I can honestly say that I regret going through with it. I grew up in a household and a community where going to the most renown university was everything. It was only when I was mid-way through college that I realized it was overrated. By overrated, I don't mean that there aren't clear benefits to going to a top college, but that it's misplaced on what should be every student's priority list.
Now that I'm out of college, it's clear that I didn't get as much out of college life as I should have. I was stuck with the mentality that everything needed to have a second step, and that the end goal should lead me to a position of respect and fulfillment. This is bullcrap, mostly because at the end of the day you will never achieve your dreams and goals without being passionate about it. And the best way to become passionate is to be happy during those precious 4 years when you grow a tremendous amount.
I wasn't happy, and I just want to warn you that it was fairly common at my university... I agree with the others who said to evaluate yourself and what you really want. It's only then that you solidify some direction for your life instead of floating around uncertain and afraid of what the future holds.
If you didn't grow up as an overachiever (at least, this is what I gather from your grades), I would recommend exploring institutions where you could envision yourself doing well and with a positive attitude. Don't shackle yourself miserably to a misplaced social expectation.
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One other thing. Tons of people who do well at their undergraduate institutions end up going to prestigious graduate programs. This is something a lot of high school students overlook. In fact, graduate degrees are far more valuable than undergraduate degrees.
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Ok there is a MASSIVE thing you are missing in this whole thought process. And that is what you actually want to do with your life. You say your current aim is to get into a prestigious university, thats retarded. You should be aiming at a JOB you want, and then choosing the best institution to help you get there, university is a TOOL to help you get to where you want to go, it shouldn't be the place your aiming to get to. Even if you pulled off a miracle (from your current grades) and ended up studying astrophysics at Cambridge or something similar, you would be one of the thousands of graduates that drop out, becuase half way through your degree you will be asking yourself "why the hell am i actually doing this? Oh shit i actually don't know what i want to do for a job and I've picked the wrong degree/ i don't even want to do a degree".
It's ok if your not sure what to do when your older, but if thats the case then study a subject you REALLY love at university. And a note to the Americans, our system is not the same, basically in the UK university is a choice, and to not get into a good university either means your lazy or stupid, its not hard to get into a top 20 university in a subject your good at/enjoy. Even the best universities only ask for 4 A's at a-level, which isn't unattainable for most people, just most people are lazy, and the rest are really stupid. I know plenty of girls in particular who arnt intelligent who got 4 a's and have gone to a good university in the UK, we are very lucky that our university system, is much easier to get into. To get into a top 20 you dont even need 4 A's, most offers are much lower than that, and also you apply to 5, and even if you dont get the standard offer, one of those 5 usually let you in with below entrance requires, its really not hard, unless you get like all c's at a-level which either means your lazy or stupid again. And often you can get into a program with like BCC in a top 20, then apply for one year at a top institution after getting a 1st or 2/1 and then get a university name like oxford after your name for working hard for one year on your masters. But again, its all about what you want to actually do with your degree that matters, ie if you want to work for nasa then yes you will need to go to oxbridge, if you want to do medicine you will need perfect grades, but if your passion is graphic design and your aiming for maths at Cambridge becuase your parents are proud you will either realize at uni and drop out or be mid-career, have a crisis, and then realize you've wasted a lot of your working carer on a job you never wanted to do anyways.
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