As someone who enjoys listening to heavy music (mostly progressive death metal + ___core bands and whatever else tickles my fancy), it really irks me that every time im checking out bands on youtube, the comments always end up in flame wars about the band being "deathcore" and how people should listen to "real metal" and proceed to drop some technical death metal band names. And i remember i posted on TL about a few deathcore bands before and was immediately called out and referred to "better" bands.
To give you an idea of what kind of stuff I like, I grew off of a lot of Opeth and Between the Buried and Me and transitioned into more ___core bands like Parkway Drive, Born of Osiris, The Faceless, Whitechapel, Suicide Silence, and Veil of Maya. I also really dig bands that evoke atmosphere, like Circus Maximus, Nightwish, and Cradle of Filth.
So the main reasons I think people hate on ____core bands are 1) they just don't like that kind of sound 2) because of the scene/scene kids that detracts from the music itself, which goes hand in hand with 3) people don't like the repetitiveness/clicheness of ___core bands. I personally like a lot of ____core bands, but can totally understand and respect the first reason. I definitely agree with the second 100 percent, kids who listen to this stuff to be part of the scene and act like dicks at shows are totally a turn off. But just cuz you listen to it hardly makes you a scene kid. And I don't deny the third statement, but I hardly think this is a reason to completely alienate a genre. Yeah, there are a lot of copycat bands that sound alike out there, but that doesn't mean you can't enjoy it for what it is. And there are some creative ____core bands out there that I personally think have a lot to offer... and some bands make "standard" sounding music, but they are just so good at it that they stand out regardless. I just don't understand the whole "too good for this" mentality that people have against ___core genres (especially deathcore).... is that really a legitimate reason to completely detach yourself from a genre?
Being a huge Opeth and BTBAM fan, I can't only listen to that kind of music because its just too long and deep for 100 percent casual listening, which is when i turn to deathcore and metalcore to get a good fix of no-bullshit heaviness. I get great satisfaction out of both kinds of music, and really think people who refuse to listen to deathcore because they are stubborn or elitist are really missing out on a lot of potential enjoyment.
I'd like to hear back from the metal community on tl about this.
The metal community is overwhelmingly elitist. When we feel that a subculture is encroaching upon our holy ground (extreme metal), we don't take very kindly to it.
Also, *core breakdowns get really fucking boring after a while.
I'm not really part of the underground metal community anymore, and I never shared the abhorrence that many in the community have for core music, but I understood the reasons for disliking __core to be as follows:
1. It's more commercial than "true" metal. I mean this in terms of both its aim and its sound. 2. Metal tends to be fairly subversive and progressive. This is not true for many core bands that make use of the more rock/pop music structures. 3. Core took many of the central elements of metal and turned it commercial. This is probably the biggest criticism. The metal community (which is very elitist to start off with) seemed to think of core as crappy metal made for mainstream consumption, which is like a betrayal. The hate directed at core bands is very similar to the hate directed at bands like In Flames and Arch Enemy these days.
I'm not really interested in arguing the legitimacy of these criticisms, but they seemed to be the common opinions held by the metal community when I was part of it.
On June 28 2011 22:24 OMin wrote: Being a huge Opeth and BTBAM fan, I can't only listen to that kind of music because its just too long and deep for 100 percent casual listening, which is when i turn to deathcore and metalcore to get a good fix of no-bullshit heaviness. I get great satisfaction out of both kinds of music, and really think people who refuse to listen to deathcore because they are stubborn or elitist are really missing out on a lot of potential enjoyment.
I think this sums up why the metal community hates core very well. The very things you get tired of metal is the same things that makes metal lovers feel that their music is superior. Because core lacks this, it's a cheap imitation of metal made for people who just like to pretend that they like metal.
Like I say, I don't necessarily agree with this point of view, but that's the view that's commonly held.
Ok first Born of Osirirs are obviously influenced by Nile but are really really really really bad and are unlistenable and a disgrace to nile . Also the production values on the Whitechapel and Suicide Silence are downright aweful and just sound like one big wall of sound coming at you. Deathcore has no reedeming values that cannot be filled by other genres. Death Metal has so much stuff that totally outclasses Deathcore by comparison. Comparing Death, Cannible Corpse, Cryptopsy, and Vader to ANY deathcore band is just insulting to them. Now I know that you didnt compare deathcore to them but seriously why would you ever listen to deathcore when there is so much good deathmetal and tech death available to you? The differences between deathcore bands are almost negligable and maybe the only semi-acceptable deathcore band is The Faceless.
OK, personally a huge metalcore fan. Why? I love music which have lyrics that discusses stuff other than sex, love, money and partying. I'm not as 'heavy' as you, but I feel I can definitely relate. I find a lot of christian metalcore (especially August Burns Red by far) very beautiful, generally because of the whole meaning and the positive aura given off from the song; I also definitely enjoy damn good bands like born of osiris (have you heard The Discovery it's ridiculously good). Just gonna share a bit of my thoughts.. My opinions on the reasons: 1) There are 2 type of haters. One type blindly (or deafly) just say 'shit no this sux im not listening' to any kind of music that they don't stand for, which I'm quite speechless about. The other type acknowledges good or well composed music whether or not they appreceiate the music or not, and I'm pretty darn fine with that. 2) I hate them. They look stupid, out of place and fake when they try to hang in with the genuine stuff. Especially scene bands that have no talent whatsoever. These few bands really do disgrace the metalcore scene.. 3) I don't understand this point, although I do know of quite a few who claim that to be a reason. Are they talking about the general sound of an album, the general sound of the band, or do they simply hear all guitar riffs by how distorted/minor they sound? I've even considered whether they just hear all breakdowns to be the same and give them no mosh feeling whatsoever. Glad to see there are pretty fervent ____core fans on TL too!
On June 28 2011 22:40 Daigomi wrote: I'm not really part of the underground metal community anymore, and I never shared the abhorrence that many in the community have for core music, but I understood the reasons for disliking __core to be as follows:
1. It's more commercial than "true" metal. I mean this in terms of both its aim and its sound. 2. Metal tends to be fairly subversive and progressive. This is not true for many core bands that make use of the more rock/pop music structures. 3. Core took many of the central elements of metal and turned it commercial. This is probably the biggest criticism. The metal community (which is very elitist to start off with) seemed to think of core as crappy metal made for mainstream consumption, which is like a betrayal. The hate directed at core bands is very similar to the hate directed at bands like In Flames and Arch Enemy these days.
I'm not really interested in arguing the legitimacy of these criticisms, but they seemed to be the common opinions held by the metal community when I was part of it.
On June 28 2011 22:24 OMin wrote: Being a huge Opeth and BTBAM fan, I can't only listen to that kind of music because its just too long and deep for 100 percent casual listening, which is when i turn to deathcore and metalcore to get a good fix of no-bullshit heaviness. I get great satisfaction out of both kinds of music, and really think people who refuse to listen to deathcore because they are stubborn or elitist are really missing out on a lot of potential enjoyment.
I think this sums up why the metal community hates core very well. The very things you get tired of metal is the same things that makes metal lovers feel that their music is superior. Because core lacks this, it's a cheap imitation of metal made for people who just like to pretend that they like metal.
Like I say, I don't necessarily agree with this point of view, but that's the view that's commonly held.
you're basically saying that ___core is a mainstream version of metal? i disagree very strongly. neither metal nor core is more or less commercial. both genres have mainstreamish bands and progressive non-mainstream stuff.
to be honest, the borders between deathcore and prog death metal are extremely fluent. the main differences being the style of the vocals and the breakdownish riffing in deathcore.
that's not "more commercial" at all. like seriously, not at all.
On June 28 2011 22:46 Crabman123 wrote: Ok first Born of Osirirs are obviously influenced by Nile but are really really really really bad and are unlistenable iand a disgrace to nile . Also the production values on the Whitechapel and Suicide Silence are downright aweful and just sound like one big wall of coming at you. Deathcore has no reedeming values that cannot be filled by other genres. Death Metal has so much stuff that totally outclasses Deathcore by comparison. Comparing Death, Cannible Corpse, Cryptopsy, and Vader to ANY deathcore band is just insulting to them. Now I know that you didnt compare deathcore to them but seriously why would you ever listen to deathcore when there is so much good deathmetal and tech death available to you? The differences between deathcore bands are almost negligable and maybe the only semi-acceptable deathcore band is The Faceless.
lol this is a prime example of what im talking about in the OP. could you perhaps go a little beyond "deathcore sucks" to explain what you just said? lol.
and as a sidenote, born of osiris has stated in an interview that they were not familiar with nile. but regardless i think both are sick bands
On June 28 2011 22:51 shucklesors wrote: OK, personally a huge metalcore fan. Why? I love music which have lyrics that discusses stuff other than sex, love, money and partying. I'm not as 'heavy' as you, but I feel I can definitely relate. I find a lot of christian metalcore (especially August Burns Red by far) very beautiful, generally because of the whole meaning and the positive aura given off from the song; I also definitely enjoy damn good bands like born of osiris (have you heard The Discovery it's ridiculously good). Just gonna share a bit of my thoughts.. My opinions on the reasons: 1) There are 2 type of haters. One type blindly (or deafly) just say 'shit no this sux im not listening' to any kind of music that they don't stand for, which I'm quite speechless about. The other type acknowledges good or well composed music whether or not they appreceiate the music or not, and I'm pretty darn fine with that. 2) I hate them. They look stupid, out of place and fake when they try to hang in with the genuine stuff. Especially scene bands that have no talent whatsoever. These few bands really do disgrace the metalcore scene.. 3) I don't understand this point, although I do know of quite a few who claim that to be a reason. Are they talking about the general sound of an album, the general sound of the band, or do they simply hear all guitar riffs by how distorted/minor they sound? I've even considered whether they just hear all breakdowns to be the same and give them no mosh feeling whatsoever. Glad to see there are pretty fervent ____core fans on TL too!
Deathcore is entirely different than metalcore. There are a ton of great metalcore bands that I listen too on ocassion but this thread is about Deathcore.
On June 28 2011 22:46 Crabman123 wrote: Ok first Born of Osirirs are obviously influenced by Nile but are really really really really bad and are unlistenable iand a disgrace to nile . Also the production values on the Whitechapel and Suicide Silence are downright aweful and just sound like one big wall of coming at you. Deathcore has no reedeming values that cannot be filled by other genres. Death Metal has so much stuff that totally outclasses Deathcore by comparison. Comparing Death, Cannible Corpse, Cryptopsy, and Vader to ANY deathcore band is just insulting to them. Now I know that you didnt compare deathcore to them but seriously why would you ever listen to deathcore when there is so much good deathmetal and tech death available to you? The differences between deathcore bands are almost negligable and maybe the only semi-acceptable deathcore band is The Faceless.
lol this is a prime example of what im talking about in the OP. could you perhaps go a little beyond "deathcore sucks" to explain what you just said? lol.
The only real complaint I have about deathcore is the production values. Almost every deathcore band I have ever listened to its almost impossible to be able to differentiate what instrument is making what noise at every single point during the song. Why would I listen to music that just sounds like one big heavy ball of mush?
On June 28 2011 22:46 Crabman123 wrote: Ok first Born of Osirirs are obviously influenced by Nile but are really really really really bad and are unlistenable and a disgrace to nile . Also the production values on the Whitechapel and Suicide Silence are downright aweful and just sound like one big wall of sound coming at you. Deathcore has no reedeming values that cannot be filled by other genres. Death Metal has so much stuff that totally outclasses Deathcore by comparison. Comparing Death, Cannible Corpse, Cryptopsy, and Vader to ANY deathcore band is just insulting to them. Now I know that you didnt compare deathcore to them but seriously why would you ever listen to deathcore when there is so much good deathmetal and tech death available to you? The differences between deathcore bands are almost negligable and maybe the only semi-acceptable deathcore band is The Faceless.
which of these bands play awesome brutal breakdowns, which deathcore is famous for? like.. none?
"Deathcore has no reedeming values that cannot be filled by other genres."
breakdowns dude, it's all about breakdowns. they sound so good. also deathcore is super progressive, yet more melodic than death metal (at least the bands i listen to). it's just a really good powerful mix.
On June 28 2011 22:51 shucklesors wrote: OK, personally a huge metalcore fan. Why? I love music which have lyrics that discusses stuff other than sex, love, money and partying. I'm not as 'heavy' as you, but I feel I can definitely relate. I find a lot of christian metalcore (especially August Burns Red by far) very beautiful, generally because of the whole meaning and the positive aura given off from the song; I also definitely enjoy damn good bands like born of osiris (have you heard The Discovery it's ridiculously good). Just gonna share a bit of my thoughts.. My opinions on the reasons: 1) There are 2 type of haters. One type blindly (or deafly) just say 'shit no this sux im not listening' to any kind of music that they don't stand for, which I'm quite speechless about. The other type acknowledges good or well composed music whether or not they appreceiate the music or not, and I'm pretty darn fine with that. 2) I hate them. They look stupid, out of place and fake when they try to hang in with the genuine stuff. Especially scene bands that have no talent whatsoever. These few bands really do disgrace the metalcore scene.. 3) I don't understand this point, although I do know of quite a few who claim that to be a reason. Are they talking about the general sound of an album, the general sound of the band, or do they simply hear all guitar riffs by how distorted/minor they sound? I've even considered whether they just hear all breakdowns to be the same and give them no mosh feeling whatsoever. Glad to see there are pretty fervent ____core fans on TL too!
Deathcore is entirely different than metalcore. There are a ton of great metalcore bands that I listen too on ocassion but this thread is about Deathcore.
On June 28 2011 22:46 Crabman123 wrote: Ok first Born of Osirirs are obviously influenced by Nile but are really really really really bad and are unlistenable iand a disgrace to nile . Also the production values on the Whitechapel and Suicide Silence are downright aweful and just sound like one big wall of coming at you. Deathcore has no reedeming values that cannot be filled by other genres. Death Metal has so much stuff that totally outclasses Deathcore by comparison. Comparing Death, Cannible Corpse, Cryptopsy, and Vader to ANY deathcore band is just insulting to them. Now I know that you didnt compare deathcore to them but seriously why would you ever listen to deathcore when there is so much good deathmetal and tech death available to you? The differences between deathcore bands are almost negligable and maybe the only semi-acceptable deathcore band is The Faceless.
lol this is a prime example of what im talking about in the OP. could you perhaps go a little beyond "deathcore sucks" to explain what you just said? lol.
The only real complaint I have about deathcore is the production values. Almost every deathcore band I have ever listened to its almost impossible to be able to differentiate what instrument is making what noise at every single point during the song. Why would I listen to music that just sounds like one big heavy ball of mush?
i dont know what kind of deathcore you listened to, but... try this...
On June 28 2011 22:51 shucklesors wrote: OK, personally a huge metalcore fan. Why? I love music which have lyrics that discusses stuff other than sex, love, money and partying. I'm not as 'heavy' as you, but I feel I can definitely relate. I find a lot of christian metalcore (especially August Burns Red by far) very beautiful, generally because of the whole meaning and the positive aura given off from the song; I also definitely enjoy damn good bands like born of osiris (have you heard The Discovery it's ridiculously good). Just gonna share a bit of my thoughts.. My opinions on the reasons: 1) There are 2 type of haters. One type blindly (or deafly) just say 'shit no this sux im not listening' to any kind of music that they don't stand for, which I'm quite speechless about. The other type acknowledges good or well composed music whether or not they appreceiate the music or not, and I'm pretty darn fine with that. 2) I hate them. They look stupid, out of place and fake when they try to hang in with the genuine stuff. Especially scene bands that have no talent whatsoever. These few bands really do disgrace the metalcore scene.. 3) I don't understand this point, although I do know of quite a few who claim that to be a reason. Are they talking about the general sound of an album, the general sound of the band, or do they simply hear all guitar riffs by how distorted/minor they sound? I've even considered whether they just hear all breakdowns to be the same and give them no mosh feeling whatsoever. Glad to see there are pretty fervent ____core fans on TL too!
Deathcore is entirely different than metalcore. There are a ton of great metalcore bands that I listen too on ocassion but this thread is about Deathcore.
On June 28 2011 22:46 Crabman123 wrote: Ok first Born of Osirirs are obviously influenced by Nile but are really really really really bad and are unlistenable iand a disgrace to nile . Also the production values on the Whitechapel and Suicide Silence are downright aweful and just sound like one big wall of coming at you. Deathcore has no reedeming values that cannot be filled by other genres. Death Metal has so much stuff that totally outclasses Deathcore by comparison. Comparing Death, Cannible Corpse, Cryptopsy, and Vader to ANY deathcore band is just insulting to them. Now I know that you didnt compare deathcore to them but seriously why would you ever listen to deathcore when there is so much good deathmetal and tech death available to you? The differences between deathcore bands are almost negligable and maybe the only semi-acceptable deathcore band is The Faceless.
lol this is a prime example of what im talking about in the OP. could you perhaps go a little beyond "deathcore sucks" to explain what you just said? lol.
The only real complaint I have about deathcore is the production values. Almost every deathcore band I have ever listened to its almost impossible to be able to differentiate what instrument is making what noise at every single point during the song. Why would I listen to music that just sounds like one big heavy ball of mush?
yeah i agree that deathcore can just be soundwalls... but sometimes thats exactly what i want to hear. but regardless, i think some deathcore bands have good things to offer if you can look past the production
On June 28 2011 22:24 OMin wrote: Being a huge Opeth and BTBAM fan, I can't only listen to that kind of music because its just too long and deep for 100 percent casual listening, which is when i turn to deathcore and metalcore to get a good fix of no-bullshit heaviness. I get great satisfaction out of both kinds of music, and really think people who refuse to listen to deathcore because they are stubborn or elitist are really missing out on a lot of potential enjoyment.
I think this sums up why the metal community hates core very well. The very things you get tired of metal is the same things that makes metal lovers feel that their music is superior. Because core lacks this, it's a cheap imitation of metal made for people who just like to pretend that they like metal.
Like I say, I don't necessarily agree with this point of view, but that's the view that's commonly held.
you're basically saying that ___core is a mainstream version of metal? i disagree very strongly. neither metal nor core is more or less commercial. both genres have mainstreamish bands and progressive non-mainstream stuff.
to be honest, the borders between deathcore and prog death metal are extremely fluent. the main differences being the style of the vocals and the breakdownish riffing in deathcore.
that's not "more commercial" at all. like seriously, not at all.[/QUOTE] 'Commercial' is more clean vocals, more relaxed instrumentals, less minor/sad sounding songs and guitar solos that are similar to their previous album or slower. If I'm not wrong, I heard they're planning to add 'more HQ sounds such that the guitar feels less distorted' into the definition.
On June 28 2011 22:40 Daigomi wrote: I'm not really part of the underground metal community anymore, and I never shared the abhorrence that many in the community have for core music, but I understood the reasons for disliking __core to be as follows:
1. It's more commercial than "true" metal. I mean this in terms of both its aim and its sound. 2. Metal tends to be fairly subversive and progressive. This is not true for many core bands that make use of the more rock/pop music structures. 3. Core took many of the central elements of metal and turned it commercial. This is probably the biggest criticism. The metal community (which is very elitist to start off with) seemed to think of core as crappy metal made for mainstream consumption, which is like a betrayal. The hate directed at core bands is very similar to the hate directed at bands like In Flames and Arch Enemy these days.
I'm not really interested in arguing the legitimacy of these criticisms, but they seemed to be the common opinions held by the metal community when I was part of it.
On June 28 2011 22:24 OMin wrote: Being a huge Opeth and BTBAM fan, I can't only listen to that kind of music because its just too long and deep for 100 percent casual listening, which is when i turn to deathcore and metalcore to get a good fix of no-bullshit heaviness. I get great satisfaction out of both kinds of music, and really think people who refuse to listen to deathcore because they are stubborn or elitist are really missing out on a lot of potential enjoyment.
I think this sums up why the metal community hates core very well. The very things you get tired of metal is the same things that makes metal lovers feel that their music is superior. Because core lacks this, it's a cheap imitation of metal made for people who just like to pretend that they like metal.
Like I say, I don't necessarily agree with this point of view, but that's the view that's commonly held.
you're basically saying that ___core is a mainstream version of metal? i disagree very strongly. neither metal nor core is more or less commercial. both genres have mainstreamish bands and progressive non-mainstream stuff.
to be honest, the borders between deathcore and prog death metal are extremely fluent. the main differences being the style of the vocals and the breakdownish riffing in deathcore.
that's not "more commercial" at all. like seriously, not at all.
Like I said, I don't personally feel this way, these are just the most common arguments that got brought up against _core whenever it was mentioned. I'm talking about back in 2002-2006 though, so it might have changed.
Also, as you mention in your post, there are very commercial bands in both metal and core. The "real" metal community hates both of these equally though. The difference is that elitist metal listeners believe that there are metal bands who are not commercial, while all core bands (or a very large proportion) are commercial according to them. In my experience, the difference is attirubted to the difference in structure between metal and _core, with almost no "real" metal bands relying on the conventional verse-bridge-chorus structure, while metalcore, which takes it song structure more from punk, being more conventional in this sense. That doesn't make it any less of a legitimate music form in my opinion, but I do believe that metal is slightly less conventional and harder to listen to for the average person (hence, less "commercial").
EDIT: Let me just reiterate that I'm not trying to argue the merit of the different genres of music. The OP asked why metalheads acted like this, and I gave him the common reasons from when I was part of that community. Also, I'm talking about metalcore in general, not deathcore.
On June 28 2011 23:04 shucklesors wrote: 'Commercial' is more clean vocals, more relaxed instrumentals, less minor/sad sounding songs and guitar solos that are similar to their previous album or slower. If I'm not wrong, I heard they're planning to add 'more HQ sounds such that the guitar feels less distorted' into the definition.
On June 28 2011 22:51 shucklesors wrote: OK, personally a huge metalcore fan. Why? I love music which have lyrics that discusses stuff other than sex, love, money and partying. I'm not as 'heavy' as you, but I feel I can definitely relate. I find a lot of christian metalcore (especially August Burns Red by far) very beautiful, generally because of the whole meaning and the positive aura given off from the song; I also definitely enjoy damn good bands like born of osiris (have you heard The Discovery it's ridiculously good). Just gonna share a bit of my thoughts.. My opinions on the reasons: 1) There are 2 type of haters. One type blindly (or deafly) just say 'shit no this sux im not listening' to any kind of music that they don't stand for, which I'm quite speechless about. The other type acknowledges good or well composed music whether or not they appreceiate the music or not, and I'm pretty darn fine with that. 2) I hate them. They look stupid, out of place and fake when they try to hang in with the genuine stuff. Especially scene bands that have no talent whatsoever. These few bands really do disgrace the metalcore scene.. 3) I don't understand this point, although I do know of quite a few who claim that to be a reason. Are they talking about the general sound of an album, the general sound of the band, or do they simply hear all guitar riffs by how distorted/minor they sound? I've even considered whether they just hear all breakdowns to be the same and give them no mosh feeling whatsoever. Glad to see there are pretty fervent ____core fans on TL too!
Deathcore is entirely different than metalcore. There are a ton of great metalcore bands that I listen too on ocassion but this thread is about Deathcore.
On June 28 2011 22:53 OMin wrote:
On June 28 2011 22:46 Crabman123 wrote: Ok first Born of Osirirs are obviously influenced by Nile but are really really really really bad and are unlistenable iand a disgrace to nile . Also the production values on the Whitechapel and Suicide Silence are downright aweful and just sound like one big wall of coming at you. Deathcore has no reedeming values that cannot be filled by other genres. Death Metal has so much stuff that totally outclasses Deathcore by comparison. Comparing Death, Cannible Corpse, Cryptopsy, and Vader to ANY deathcore band is just insulting to them. Now I know that you didnt compare deathcore to them but seriously why would you ever listen to deathcore when there is so much good deathmetal and tech death available to you? The differences between deathcore bands are almost negligable and maybe the only semi-acceptable deathcore band is The Faceless.
lol this is a prime example of what im talking about in the OP. could you perhaps go a little beyond "deathcore sucks" to explain what you just said? lol.
The only real complaint I have about deathcore is the production values. Almost every deathcore band I have ever listened to its almost impossible to be able to differentiate what instrument is making what noise at every single point during the song. Why would I listen to music that just sounds like one big heavy ball of mush?
i dont know what kind of deathcore you listened to, but... try this...
On June 28 2011 22:40 Daigomi wrote: I'm not really part of the underground metal community anymore, and I never shared the abhorrence that many in the community have for core music, but I understood the reasons for disliking __core to be as follows:
1. It's more commercial than "true" metal. I mean this in terms of both its aim and its sound. 2. Metal tends to be fairly subversive and progressive. This is not true for many core bands that make use of the more rock/pop music structures. 3. Core took many of the central elements of metal and turned it commercial. This is probably the biggest criticism. The metal community (which is very elitist to start off with) seemed to think of core as crappy metal made for mainstream consumption, which is like a betrayal. The hate directed at core bands is very similar to the hate directed at bands like In Flames and Arch Enemy these days.
I'm not really interested in arguing the legitimacy of these criticisms, but they seemed to be the common opinions held by the metal community when I was part of it.
On June 28 2011 22:24 OMin wrote: Being a huge Opeth and BTBAM fan, I can't only listen to that kind of music because its just too long and deep for 100 percent casual listening, which is when i turn to deathcore and metalcore to get a good fix of no-bullshit heaviness. I get great satisfaction out of both kinds of music, and really think people who refuse to listen to deathcore because they are stubborn or elitist are really missing out on a lot of potential enjoyment.
I think this sums up why the metal community hates core very well. The very things you get tired of metal is the same things that makes metal lovers feel that their music is superior. Because core lacks this, it's a cheap imitation of metal made for people who just like to pretend that they like metal.
Like I say, I don't necessarily agree with this point of view, but that's the view that's commonly held.
you're basically saying that ___core is a mainstream version of metal? i disagree very strongly. neither metal nor core is more or less commercial. both genres have mainstreamish bands and progressive non-mainstream stuff.
to be honest, the borders between deathcore and prog death metal are extremely fluent. the main differences being the style of the vocals and the breakdownish riffing in deathcore.
that's not "more commercial" at all. like seriously, not at all.
Like I said, I don't personally feel this way, these are just the most common arguments that got brought up against _core whenever it was mentioned. I'm talking about back in 2002-2006 though, so it might have changed.
Also, as you mention in your post, there are very commercial bands in both metal and core. The "real" metal community hates both of these equally though. The difference is that elitist metal listeners believe that there are metal bands who are not commercial, while all core bands (or a very large proportion) are commercial according to them. In my experience, the difference is attirubted to the difference in structure between metal and _core, with almost no "real" metal bands relying on the conventional verse-bridge-chorus structure, while metalcore, which takes it song structure more from punk, being more conventional in this sense. That doesn't make it any less of a legitimate music form in my opinion, but I do believe that metal is slightly less conventional and harder to listen to for the average person (hence, less "commercial").
yeah i definitely agree with the stuff you said. i gotta say even being a deathcore fan, that this "commerciality" is a lot worse in deathcore than in regular death metal.... but there are still great deathcore bands out there among the stereotypes regardless. i never thought about the last point you made.... it makes a lot of sense though, i can totally see how this would set off the old school dm'ers
On June 28 2011 23:04 shucklesors wrote: 'Commercial' is more clean vocals, more relaxed instrumentals, less minor/sad sounding songs and guitar solos that are similar to their previous album or slower. If I'm not wrong, I heard they're planning to add 'more HQ sounds such that the guitar feels less distorted' into the definition.
Death Metal always has a special place in my heart. I could care less about how comercial the band is though, as long as the music and vocals(a good screamer is always a +) are excellent and I will enjoy the music.
On June 28 2011 23:04 shucklesors wrote: 'Commercial' is more clean vocals, more relaxed instrumentals, less minor/sad sounding songs and guitar solos that are similar to their previous album or slower. If I'm not wrong, I heard they're planning to add 'more HQ sounds such that the guitar feels less distorted' into the definition.
that's not deathcore, sorry
lol, i'm sorry if you really can't tell..
that sounds more "commercial" in the sense of regular/pop music. totally not the case for death metal/core
On June 28 2011 23:16 Kralic wrote: Death Metal always has a special place in my heart. I could care less about how comercial the band is though, as long as the music and vocals(a good screamer is always a +) are excellent and I will enjoy the music.
dude i feel the exact same way.... every cradle of filth upload on youtube is an argument about cof being black metal or not.... how about you just dont give a fuck and listen to them if you like them? i really think you are doing yourself a disfavor if you filter out bands by genre without giving them an unbiased assessment before deciding whether you like them or not.
On June 28 2011 23:04 shucklesors wrote: 'Commercial' is more clean vocals, more relaxed instrumentals, less minor/sad sounding songs and guitar solos that are similar to their previous album or slower. If I'm not wrong, I heard they're planning to add 'more HQ sounds such that the guitar feels less distorted' into the definition.
that's not deathcore, sorry
lol, i'm sorry if you really can't tell..
that sounds more "commercial" in the sense of regular/pop music. totally not the case for death metal/core
OK maybe the sarcasm really wasn't obvious enough..
EPT
