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I think most people have this sort of mentality. Public places such as parks, beaches, etc are there for enjoyment and most everyone will tend to litter less. Private places have a direct owner/staff that has a job to clean the mess.
So when you throw trash in the Del Taco parking lot or drive thru there will be a guy out there within a day to clean it up. No harm done, in fact you could argue that you helped someone keep a job.
I hate the street sweeper so fucking much that I will litter on purpose as my 'right' to get my personal justice on all the tickets I have received.
On the other hand, I remember reading/watching something about when a property is owned by a community it tends to be less taken care of then if someone privately owns it.
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Justice is a fairy tale. Basically you have three choices: 1) believe in it and try to bring justice to the world. This will give you a sense of purpose. 2) Be indifferent to it -- there are so many things which other people believe but are untrue, you can't be bothered with all of it. This will give you inner peace. 3) Try to exploit the believe of people who do believe in Justice. It's like in starcraft when one player plays NR20 and you 4 pool him. This will gain you fortune.
The engine of the game contains the rules of the game. Everything else is a fairytale.
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On June 18 2011 18:09 BlackJack wrote:
I can't stand to see people getting away with injustice.
I bet you love pirates. Companies should ruin generations of lives because someone downloaded a song, amirite? You can't just key someones car and say that it's the same as littering because of cosmetic reasons. That scratch might rust and the repair bill might be way bigger. If you threw some paint or put a sticker or something on the car, it would be closer to littering.
I'll bet he thinks twice before throwing his garbage out the window next time.
That type of reasoning pretty much never works. Do you really think he'll go "Oh this must be punishment for littering, I guess I'll have to stop it or get my car keyed again." In the end the only thing you can really do is ask him to pick up his trash, if he doesn't, there's nothing you can do about it.
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On June 18 2011 19:52 Sotamursu wrote:Show nested quote +On June 18 2011 18:09 BlackJack wrote:
I can't stand to see people getting away with injustice. I bet you love pirates. Companies should ruin generations of lives because someone downloaded a song, amirite? You can't just key someones car and say that it's the same as littering because of cosmetic reasons. That scratch might rust and the repair bill might be way bigger. If you threw some paint or put a sticker or something on the car, it would be closer to littering. Show nested quote +
I'll bet he thinks twice before throwing his garbage out the window next time.
That type of reasoning pretty much never works. Do you really think he'll go "Oh this must be punishment for littering, I guess I'll have to stop it or get my car keyed again." In the end the only thing you can really do is ask him to pick up his trash, if he doesn't, there's nothing you can do about it.
Well he will know why because I included a note on his windshield that says why. The fact that he won't know who did it will make him uneasy because he won't know if I am watching him the next time he decides to litter. The belief that it probably won't accomplish anything isn't a good excuse to do nothing, imo.
btw, I agree it won't be a very successful deterrent but that's mostly because 1 person can't make much of a difference. If the community decided to crackdown on litterbugs then people would definitely not be so brazen about throwing garbage out their window right in front of others. You have to have enough vigilantes for the person to worry about who is watching them, and 1 just isn't enough.
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On June 18 2011 18:59 BlackJack wrote:Show nested quote +On June 18 2011 18:57 DisaFear wrote:
It' just a kid man, calm down
Yes, litter is bad, but a kid is a kid. He should be taught by parents, but they probably didn't see it, so shrug
There's worse things in the world than this I should clarify that I am from a college town where everyone is a "kid" and by kid I mean 18-26 year olds.
ok, that makes more sense
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On June 18 2011 20:08 BlackJack wrote:Show nested quote +On June 18 2011 19:52 Sotamursu wrote:On June 18 2011 18:09 BlackJack wrote:
I can't stand to see people getting away with injustice. I bet you love pirates. Companies should ruin generations of lives because someone downloaded a song, amirite? You can't just key someones car and say that it's the same as littering because of cosmetic reasons. That scratch might rust and the repair bill might be way bigger. If you threw some paint or put a sticker or something on the car, it would be closer to littering.
I'll bet he thinks twice before throwing his garbage out the window next time.
That type of reasoning pretty much never works. Do you really think he'll go "Oh this must be punishment for littering, I guess I'll have to stop it or get my car keyed again." In the end the only thing you can really do is ask him to pick up his trash, if he doesn't, there's nothing you can do about it. Well he will know why because I included a note on his windshield that says why. The fact that he won't know who did it will make him uneasy because he won't know if I am watching him the next time he decides to litter. The belief that it probably won't accomplish anything isn't a good excuse to do nothing, imo.
This isn't clever at all because it fails to recognize the emotions that will likely come into play. You expect to instill fear, but keying a car and leaving a note will merely inspire anger.
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On June 18 2011 20:08 BlackJack wrote:
btw, I agree it won't be a very successful deterrent but that's mostly because 1 person can't make much of a difference. If the community decided to crackdown on litterbugs then people would definitely not be so brazen about throwing garbage out their window right in front of others. You have to have enough vigilantes for the person to worry about who is watching them, and 1 just isn't enough.
Wait, you're pissed because he threw trash when someone was watching and not because he is littering?
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On June 18 2011 20:15 Sinborn wrote:Show nested quote +On June 18 2011 20:08 BlackJack wrote:On June 18 2011 19:52 Sotamursu wrote:On June 18 2011 18:09 BlackJack wrote:
I can't stand to see people getting away with injustice. I bet you love pirates. Companies should ruin generations of lives because someone downloaded a song, amirite? You can't just key someones car and say that it's the same as littering because of cosmetic reasons. That scratch might rust and the repair bill might be way bigger. If you threw some paint or put a sticker or something on the car, it would be closer to littering.
I'll bet he thinks twice before throwing his garbage out the window next time.
That type of reasoning pretty much never works. Do you really think he'll go "Oh this must be punishment for littering, I guess I'll have to stop it or get my car keyed again." In the end the only thing you can really do is ask him to pick up his trash, if he doesn't, there's nothing you can do about it. Well he will know why because I included a note on his windshield that says why. The fact that he won't know who did it will make him uneasy because he won't know if I am watching him the next time he decides to litter. The belief that it probably won't accomplish anything isn't a good excuse to do nothing, imo. This isn't clever at all because it fails to recognize the emotions that will likely come into play. You expect to instill fear, but keying a car and leaving a note will merely inspire anger.
People also get angry when they get parking tickets. They still make excellent deterrents. The only problem is I can't deliver on a wide enough scale to make it an effective deterrent because people will still get away with it 99.9% of the time. That doesn't mean they shouldn't pay for their crime though.
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On June 18 2011 20:24 BlackJack wrote:Show nested quote +On June 18 2011 20:15 Sinborn wrote:On June 18 2011 20:08 BlackJack wrote:On June 18 2011 19:52 Sotamursu wrote:On June 18 2011 18:09 BlackJack wrote:
I can't stand to see people getting away with injustice. I bet you love pirates. Companies should ruin generations of lives because someone downloaded a song, amirite? You can't just key someones car and say that it's the same as littering because of cosmetic reasons. That scratch might rust and the repair bill might be way bigger. If you threw some paint or put a sticker or something on the car, it would be closer to littering.
I'll bet he thinks twice before throwing his garbage out the window next time.
That type of reasoning pretty much never works. Do you really think he'll go "Oh this must be punishment for littering, I guess I'll have to stop it or get my car keyed again." In the end the only thing you can really do is ask him to pick up his trash, if he doesn't, there's nothing you can do about it. Well he will know why because I included a note on his windshield that says why. The fact that he won't know who did it will make him uneasy because he won't know if I am watching him the next time he decides to litter. The belief that it probably won't accomplish anything isn't a good excuse to do nothing, imo. This isn't clever at all because it fails to recognize the emotions that will likely come into play. You expect to instill fear, but keying a car and leaving a note will merely inspire anger. People also get angry when they get parking tickets. They still make excellent deterrents. The only problem is I can't deliver on a wide enough scale to make it an effective deterrent because people will still get away with it 99.9% of the time. That doesn't mean they shouldn't pay for their crime though.
Parking tickets are different in that they are backed by an institution that has actual power. Not paying the ticket has legitimate consequences that are well understood by society. You are planning on keying cars, leaving cryptic messages and acting like Batman.
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On June 18 2011 20:24 BlackJack wrote:
People also get angry when they get parking tickets. They still make excellent deterrents. The only problem is I can't deliver on a wide enough scale to make it an effective deterrent because people will still get away with it 99.9% of the time. That doesn't mean they shouldn't pay for their crime though.
I have a feeling you'll find more people against keying cars for littering than for it. It's not even an actual crime.
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On June 18 2011 20:21 Sotamursu wrote:Show nested quote +On June 18 2011 20:08 BlackJack wrote:
btw, I agree it won't be a very successful deterrent but that's mostly because 1 person can't make much of a difference. If the community decided to crackdown on litterbugs then people would definitely not be so brazen about throwing garbage out their window right in front of others. You have to have enough vigilantes for the person to worry about who is watching them, and 1 just isn't enough. Wait, you're pissed because he threw trash when someone was watching and not because he is littering?
I'm pissed because he is littering but obviously nothing could possibly be done if there is no witness so there's no point in fretting over it.
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On June 18 2011 20:25 Sinborn wrote:Show nested quote +On June 18 2011 20:24 BlackJack wrote:On June 18 2011 20:15 Sinborn wrote:On June 18 2011 20:08 BlackJack wrote:On June 18 2011 19:52 Sotamursu wrote:On June 18 2011 18:09 BlackJack wrote:
I can't stand to see people getting away with injustice. I bet you love pirates. Companies should ruin generations of lives because someone downloaded a song, amirite? You can't just key someones car and say that it's the same as littering because of cosmetic reasons. That scratch might rust and the repair bill might be way bigger. If you threw some paint or put a sticker or something on the car, it would be closer to littering.
I'll bet he thinks twice before throwing his garbage out the window next time.
That type of reasoning pretty much never works. Do you really think he'll go "Oh this must be punishment for littering, I guess I'll have to stop it or get my car keyed again." In the end the only thing you can really do is ask him to pick up his trash, if he doesn't, there's nothing you can do about it. Well he will know why because I included a note on his windshield that says why. The fact that he won't know who did it will make him uneasy because he won't know if I am watching him the next time he decides to litter. The belief that it probably won't accomplish anything isn't a good excuse to do nothing, imo. This isn't clever at all because it fails to recognize the emotions that will likely come into play. You expect to instill fear, but keying a car and leaving a note will merely inspire anger. People also get angry when they get parking tickets. They still make excellent deterrents. The only problem is I can't deliver on a wide enough scale to make it an effective deterrent because people will still get away with it 99.9% of the time. That doesn't mean they shouldn't pay for their crime though. Parking tickets are different in that they are backed by an institution that has actual power. Not paying the ticket has legitimate consequences that are well understood by society. You are planning on keying cars, leaving cryptic messages and acting like Batman.
There are billions of differences between any 2 things. Believing these difference will lead to different results is nothing short of conjecture on your part or my part, which is why I stand behind my position that not knowing if a discipline for bad behavior will be effective isn't a good reason to not discipline bad behavior.
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On June 18 2011 20:39 BlackJack wrote:Show nested quote +On June 18 2011 20:25 Sinborn wrote:On June 18 2011 20:24 BlackJack wrote:On June 18 2011 20:15 Sinborn wrote:On June 18 2011 20:08 BlackJack wrote:On June 18 2011 19:52 Sotamursu wrote:On June 18 2011 18:09 BlackJack wrote:
I can't stand to see people getting away with injustice. I bet you love pirates. Companies should ruin generations of lives because someone downloaded a song, amirite? You can't just key someones car and say that it's the same as littering because of cosmetic reasons. That scratch might rust and the repair bill might be way bigger. If you threw some paint or put a sticker or something on the car, it would be closer to littering.
I'll bet he thinks twice before throwing his garbage out the window next time.
That type of reasoning pretty much never works. Do you really think he'll go "Oh this must be punishment for littering, I guess I'll have to stop it or get my car keyed again." In the end the only thing you can really do is ask him to pick up his trash, if he doesn't, there's nothing you can do about it. Well he will know why because I included a note on his windshield that says why. The fact that he won't know who did it will make him uneasy because he won't know if I am watching him the next time he decides to litter. The belief that it probably won't accomplish anything isn't a good excuse to do nothing, imo. This isn't clever at all because it fails to recognize the emotions that will likely come into play. You expect to instill fear, but keying a car and leaving a note will merely inspire anger. People also get angry when they get parking tickets. They still make excellent deterrents. The only problem is I can't deliver on a wide enough scale to make it an effective deterrent because people will still get away with it 99.9% of the time. That doesn't mean they shouldn't pay for their crime though. Parking tickets are different in that they are backed by an institution that has actual power. Not paying the ticket has legitimate consequences that are well understood by society. You are planning on keying cars, leaving cryptic messages and acting like Batman. There are billions of differences between any 2 things. Believing these difference will lead to different results is nothing short of conjecture on your part or my part, which is why I stand behind my position that not knowing if a discipline for bad behavior will be effective isn't a good reason to not discipline bad behavior.
Are you willing to back up your theory with actual practice?
Also, it's not conjecture. I can reason why your plan actually doesn't work based on factors that make it relatively innocuous. You continue to assert that keying cars creates the necessary panic to stop a certain behavior when reality would indicate otherwise.
You are one person and can be tracked down and stopped. Traffic tickets are part of system that you cannot track and halt. Individual actions do not have as much weight as a result and do not have the necessary leverage to get what you're looking for.
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On June 18 2011 20:39 BlackJack wrote:
There are billions of differences between any 2 things. Believing these difference will lead to different results is nothing short of conjecture on your part or my part, which is why I stand behind my position that not knowing if a discipline for bad behavior will be effective isn't a good reason to not discipline bad behavior.
Who will decide what the punishment will be and who will carry out the punishment? If you're not sure which punishment is effective, how are you going to choose one?
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Littering happens to create street cleaning jobs for old people in the city.
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Vigilante justice is unlikely to enforce change, for that you need a larger social shift. Vigilante justice can however appease your own personal need to see justice served, I wouldn't leave a note, it might assist in identifying you. Instead just be satisfied that their action has had consequences.
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OP if someone tried to beat you up for keying their car for being a dirty fucking litterbug I would help you and cave their skull in with a pipe wrench. Just sayin' 
Litterbugs fucking piss me off
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littering is serious business
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On June 18 2011 18:57 Kerotan wrote:
Casually toss your salami on his chin, its poetic, and also breaks the ice so you can tell him not to litter.
fixed
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honestly if someone beat up my friend because he keyed his car because that someone littered i would beat up that someone in return because hes an asshole and you just dont litter. stop being a lazy shithead and just put your trash in the goddamn trash can.
you have no right to beat up someone else for keying your car when YOU were being an irresponsible citizen.
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EPT
