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Calgary25989 Posts
On June 15 2011 01:00 mTw|NarutO wrote:Show nested quote +On June 15 2011 00:43 Chill wrote:
This is one change I can get behind. I will lead the charge with you, Flaccid!
Huk and Jinro = Foreigners at GSL
MC and MMA = Foreigners at MLG
Non-Koreans shouldn't be frankly called foreigners in SC2. Actually I don't think it ever had something to do with where the player was from, but what the "homecountry" of that sports was. Koreans will always be Koreans (obvious-_-) and non-Koreans will always be foreign in Starcraft related stuff. I wouldn't mind a change, but I still find the term and how its used right now correct. Same with people living in another country, even if you are born there you still are a foreigner if your parents weren't.. at least I would say so.
It was a term borrowed from Koreans. Koreans call every non-Korean 'foreigner', as they should. But the mistake was everyone adopting the term. Now that SC2 is more global and Korea is no longer the central hub, the term makes no sense in SC2.
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I agree with the OP. In my regards the term foreigner is impolite and often missplaced in my eyes. SC II does not need koreans, many people dont even watch korean stuff. I for example am not interested in GSL and what not never watched it maybe never will.
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I don't understand all the bullshit in the blog related to 'negativity' and 'derogatory-ness' of the word foreigners. Either you all didn't bother reading the OP or you are bad at reading.
SC2 is huge outside of Korea (in comparison to SC1). There are now many, many international tournaments and many top players from all over the world. Regardless of whether or not Korea has the strongest scene, it is not so disproportionate in size to the rest of the world that you can call everyone else outsiders (foreigners). If people want to specify that someone is not from the Korean scene, just call them non-Korean... or Swedish, or Canadian or whatever they happen to be. SC2 is international, not Korea + a sprinkling of the rest of the world.
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On June 15 2011 01:08 Chill wrote:Show nested quote +On June 15 2011 01:00 mTw|NarutO wrote:On June 15 2011 00:43 Chill wrote:
This is one change I can get behind. I will lead the charge with you, Flaccid!
Huk and Jinro = Foreigners at GSL
MC and MMA = Foreigners at MLG
Non-Koreans shouldn't be frankly called foreigners in SC2. Actually I don't think it ever had something to do with where the player was from, but what the "homecountry" of that sports was. Koreans will always be Koreans (obvious-_-) and non-Koreans will always be foreign in Starcraft related stuff. I wouldn't mind a change, but I still find the term and how its used right now correct. Same with people living in another country, even if you are born there you still are a foreigner if your parents weren't.. at least I would say so. It was a term borrowed from Koreans. Koreans call every non-Korean 'foreigner', as they should. But the mistake was everyone adopting the term. Now that SC2 is more global and Korea is no longer the central hub, the term makes no sense in SC2.
That's just it. Foreigner is a relative term and we are using it as an absolute. We should cut that shit out.
On June 15 2011 01:12 RedJustice wrote:
I don't understand all the bullshit in the blog related to 'negativity' and 'derogatory-ness' of the word foreigners. Either you all didn't bother reading the OP or you are bad at reading.
SC2 is huge outside of Korea (in comparison to SC1). There are now many, many international tournaments and many top players from all over the world. Regardless of whether or not Korea has the strongest scene, it is not so disproportionate in size to the rest of the world that you can call everyone else outsiders (foreigners). If people want to specify that someone is not from the Korean scene, just call them non-Korean... or Swedish, or Canadian or whatever they happen to be. SC2 is international, not Korea + a sprinkling of the rest of the world.
RedJustice totally gets it. Thanks for understanding my incoherent ramblings =)
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Eh, its just semantics. I don't really see the big deal - it's sort of starcraft-slang at this point. I'm not sure why we need to debate about the word usage when its just common now.
On June 15 2011 01:08 Chill wrote:Show nested quote +On June 15 2011 01:00 mTw|NarutO wrote:On June 15 2011 00:43 Chill wrote:
This is one change I can get behind. I will lead the charge with you, Flaccid!
Huk and Jinro = Foreigners at GSL
MC and MMA = Foreigners at MLG
Non-Koreans shouldn't be frankly called foreigners in SC2. Actually I don't think it ever had something to do with where the player was from, but what the "homecountry" of that sports was. Koreans will always be Koreans (obvious-_-) and non-Koreans will always be foreign in Starcraft related stuff. I wouldn't mind a change, but I still find the term and how its used right now correct. Same with people living in another country, even if you are born there you still are a foreigner if your parents weren't.. at least I would say so. It was a term borrowed from Koreans. Koreans call every non-Korean 'foreigner', as they should. But the mistake was everyone adopting the term. Now that SC2 is more global and Korea is no longer the central hub, the term makes no sense in SC2.
I would argue that korea still is the center of starcraft 2 - while it is not as important or solidified as it was in starcraft broodwar, still, the most prestigious and important tournament (I think most would agree) is held there, the best progamers play there, the vast majority of progamer houses are held there, etc.
Is starcraft 2 less centric than starcraft broodwar? Yes.
Is the center still in Korea? Yes.
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ALLEYCAT BLUES50596 Posts
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Netherlands45349 Posts
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Was done on 5 June though.
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They misspelled ESPORTS.
It's part of the heritage from BW. Kind of like tl itself. I don't think it really is annoying as such, just a term that seperates two communities, like any other.
It also gives us a history. The term gives us time before the SC2 Beta, before IEM and MLG. No reason to change it. We don't redesign old buildings because they are impractical and from another age.
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I actually have no problem with this movement. Maybe it have to do with how much pedantic I am 
After all, both sides concur the language must adjust to fit the expectation of majority- if prominent individuals like casters stop using foreigners and shift over to replacement word, the trend will start to natrually change even without some activists hopping up and down about it. And if people does not agree, well, the term will stay.
True democracy.
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I disagree with you for several reasons. The reason it does not compare to sports like hockey is because there is a generally even distribution of players with skill throughout countries and generally has always been the case. In SC2 the top players are about 50% Korean and 50% non Korean, and since most major tournaments from SC/SC2 took place in chorea anyone playing in them was a foreigner, the term simply carried over.
On top of which, look at the major tournaments in Korea, GSL is like 99% Korean players while MLG/Dreamhack contain people from a whole host of foreign countries. So while non-korean could apply in all cases, it was not the commonly used expression and foreigner still works in most instances of the word.
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On June 15 2011 01:08 Chill wrote:Show nested quote +On June 15 2011 01:00 mTw|NarutO wrote:On June 15 2011 00:43 Chill wrote:
This is one change I can get behind. I will lead the charge with you, Flaccid!
Huk and Jinro = Foreigners at GSL
MC and MMA = Foreigners at MLG
Non-Koreans shouldn't be frankly called foreigners in SC2. Actually I don't think it ever had something to do with where the player was from, but what the "homecountry" of that sports was. Koreans will always be Koreans (obvious-_-) and non-Koreans will always be foreign in Starcraft related stuff. I wouldn't mind a change, but I still find the term and how its used right now correct. Same with people living in another country, even if you are born there you still are a foreigner if your parents weren't.. at least I would say so. It was a term borrowed from Koreans. Koreans call every non-Korean 'foreigner', as they should. But the mistake was everyone adopting the term. Now that SC2 is more global and Korea is no longer the central hub, the term makes no sense in SC2.
A Canadian and a Swede would still be foreigners at MLG  the term honestly doesn't bother me one way or the other.
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On June 15 2011 01:10 Holy_AT wrote:
SC II does not need koreans,
This was a sentiment that existed about a year ago when SC2 was about to be released. I am rather surprised that there are people who still hold this view when the Koreans have been winning tournaments after tournaments.
On June 15 2011 01:10 Holy_AT wrote:
many people dont even watch korean stuff. I for example am not interested in GSL and what not never watched it maybe never will.
What you said may be true, but I'm sure you are a minority.
As for OP, he has a valid point me thinks. The reason why that happened in BW was because the Koreans were so far ahead that it literally became the Koreans or others. That is not the case in SC2...yet.
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On June 15 2011 01:37 don_kyuhote wrote:This was a sentiment that existed about a year ago when SC2 was about to be released. I am rather surprised that there are people who still hold this view when the Koreans have been winning tournaments after tournaments.
I believe Holy_AT was simply saying that SC2 doesn't necessarily require Korea in order to succeed elsewhere. That point can be argued on its own merits.
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On June 15 2011 01:33 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote:
I disagree with you for several reasons. The reason it does not compare to sports like hockey is because there is a generally even distribution of players with skill throughout countries and generally has always been the case. In SC2 the top players are about 50% Korean and 50% non Korean, and since most major tournaments from SC/SC2 took place in chorea anyone playing in them was a foreigner, the term simply carried over.
In the NHL (top level of hockey) as of 2008:
52.0% Canadian
19.9% American
5.9% Swedish
and so on. Roughly 50% Canadian, 50% foreigner.
The comparison may be more apt than you're giving it credit for ;-)
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I agree. We should also stop referring to people from Mexico as Mexicans. Extremely rude and ignorant.
Edit: OT: I don't have a problem with the term. I think it makes a non-korean feel like an underdog in a tournament with koreans which I think is ok; I think the fans would pull more for a "foreigner" than a "white dude."
User was warned for this post
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On June 15 2011 01:48 Alejandrisha wrote:
I agree. We should also stop referring to people from Mexico as Mexicans. Extremely rude and ignorant.
WTF?
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On June 15 2011 01:48 Alejandrisha wrote:
I agree. We should also stop referring to people from Mexico as Mexicans. Extremely rude and ignorant.
Then call them people form Mexico, wait, isn`t a person from Mexico a Mexican? 
(Too bad that english doesn`t have a distinction between nationality and citizenship.)
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EPT
