I agree with the OP, but I don't think we will be convincing anyone. It simply doesn't make sense to the general audience when it is a NA tournament and a NA commentator referring to his fellow countrymen as "foreigners". It makes sense in Korea, the same way that Koreans here could be correctly referred to as foreigners. The word foreigner itself is a relative term and not at all suited as a static identifier within the English language. Personally I never use it incorrectly, so I do my part.

emythrel

United Kingdom2599 Posts

June 14 2011 14:51 GMT

#23

Unless you are specifically going to refer to someone as from Sweden, US etc there is no reason not to use the term foreigner.

Non-korean and international mean the exact same thing within the context of SC2, its just a word. We use it to signify anyone not from Korea, its not a slight on them and its not a negative term its just the simplest way to convey the message.

At MLG you can't use the term foreigner to mean anyone not from the US when the convention within the community is that foreigner means non-korean. Words can be used differently than their original intent, we do it all the time.......

Rape for instance, we all agree that within the context of gaming it holds a different meaning to the rest of the worlds population, well foreigner is the same.... to us it doesn't mean "someone not of my home land" after all, if I'm casting a game... anyone not from the UK is a foreigner, to a Swedish guy I am a foreigner....

ComaDose

Canada10357 Posts

June 14 2011 14:52 GMT

#24

On June 14 2011 23:23 Flaccid wrote:

Show nested quote +

Let's start a counter-movement to the original movement. As we all know the best hockey players in the world are (to a great degree) from Canada. And the best development and junior leagues are also in Canada with an ever-increasing number of Europeans and Americans moving here in order to 'compete with the best' and increase their chances of turning pro. Because of this, and the similar context to the Korean example in SC2, we will now refer to all non-Canadian hockey players as foreigners.

Tim Thomas is a pretty good goaltender, for a foreigner. Evgeni Malkin is a top-foreign player.

Join the revolution!

OKAY!
There are so many Canadians playing for foreign teams Id like to see them come home and make stuff happen for our teams.
To bad so much money is involved.
I also really hope that foreigners don't take our lord Stanly's cup out of our grasp this year.
There's a lot of foreigners that are better than Canadian NHL players.
There are not a lot of foreigners that are better than Korean GSL players.

EDIT:+ Show Spoiler +

On June 14 2011 23:45 Maliris wrote:
Agreed, its just BW elitists clinging to their dying traditions

lol wtf. its starcraft.

redFF

United States3910 Posts

June 14 2011 14:53 GMT

#25

Yeah it's HURTING ESPORTS. (sorry couldn't resist) :p

The_LiNk

Canada863 Posts

June 14 2011 14:56 GMT

#26

No matter what the context; a foreigner still won MLG.

Kipsate

Netherlands45349 Posts

June 14 2011 14:57 GMT

#27

Would you rather have it be named non-korean then?

''All of the non-koreans'' were eliminated.

Also this is hurting E-sports.

Enervate

United States1769 Posts

June 14 2011 15:00 GMT

#28

Non-korean is racist. Foreginer is not racist.

Why is this? Because if the most dense area of progamers were to change from Korea, the term non-Korean is not adaptable while the term foreigner is.

Starshaped

Sweden575 Posts

June 14 2011 15:01 GMT

#29

It made sense to use the term for BW, since everyone played it in Korea and only like 5 people played it in the rest of the world, but for SC2 it really is silly to use the term.

Stop using it, I say.

Velr

Switzerland10742 Posts

June 14 2011 15:02 GMT

#30

On June 14 2011 23:45 caradoc wrote:

EDIT: if you don't like it, instead of saying 'foreigner' how about saying 'Koreanally challenged' or something.

How about "culturally disadvantaged" :D

Flaccid

8841 Posts

June 14 2011 15:04 GMT

#31

On June 15 2011 00:00 Enervate wrote:
Non-korean is racist.

Really? Please explain.

On June 14 2011 23:45 caradoc wrote:

EDIT: if you don't like it, instead of saying 'foreigner' how about saying 'Koreanally challenged' or something.

When I saw this I first read it as 'anally challenged' so obviously I support the movement 100%.

ComaDose

Canada10357 Posts

June 14 2011 15:08 GMT

#32

On June 15 2011 00:01 Starshaped wrote:
It made sense to use the term for BW... only like 5 people played it in the rest of the world,

This is not true and also not the reason for the term

but for SC2 it really is silly to use the term.

no its not.
its very seriously not silly.
the point is its accept terminology.
it describes a group of people briefly to those knowledgeable of the terms meaning.
does it offend you that you cant be a citizen or something?
why hate the term?

ch33psh33p

7650 Posts

June 14 2011 15:09 GMT

#33

On June 14 2011 23:53 redFF wrote:
Yeah it's HURTING ESPORTS. (sorry couldn't resist) :p

This. You need to stop hurting ESPORTs. Consult the blog a few links below this one about the detrimental effect you are having ESPORTs.

Flaccid

8841 Posts

June 14 2011 15:12 GMT

#34

By not capitalizing the 's' at the end of ESPORTS you are, in fact, hurting ESPORTS/

Essbee

Canada2371 Posts

June 14 2011 15:18 GMT

#35

On June 14 2011 23:45 Maliris wrote:
Agreed, its just BW elitists clinging to their dying traditions

Way to go champ...

Edit: On topic, I like the term foreigner and it has nothing to do with BW, I just like it.

SigmaoctanusIV

United States3313 Posts

June 14 2011 15:18 GMT

#36

I always felt being a foreigner was a cool term. Once we take Esports as seriously as Korea we can stop being foreigners. We made the name for ourselves, I don't see it changing anytime soon anyway. foreigners FTW :D

Fog-of-War

United States103 Posts

June 14 2011 15:27 GMT

#37

HAHAHAAHAHAHA what a joke. compare sc scene to hockey.

I was watching a show the other day the joke was some canadian talking about how much he loves hockey then asking the interviewer what his favorite hockey team was. the interviewer laughed and said "I'm american, I don't care about hockey." which is true for 90% of americans, hockey is a dying sport no one cares about any more, I only watched it for the fights....the few times i did watch.

Korea loves esports and has embraced them more than any other country ESPECIALLY starcraft brood war. Also the best players have been and still are in korea. In BW if you were any good at all you went to korea to play. Didn't you see the post "naniwa and thorzain goto korea" wow our two of the best foreigners are going to korea to play in the GSL starting off in code A.

Korea is still the capital of SC bw and SC2 there is no doubt. the distinction is correct...and i'm a foreigner. I used to think it was stupid until I saw the stats, Korea rules the SC world while a couple foreigners try to battle the Koreans

nayumi

Australia6499 Posts

June 14 2011 15:27 GMT

#38

You can only change that ONLY when the Korean reign is over in Starcraft (which is never anyway).

Torenhire

United States11681 Posts

June 14 2011 15:33 GMT

#39

While I agree that the SC2 scene is WAAAAAAAAAAY more internationalized than Brood War's, there's still a pretty large skill gap between Korea and everyone else.

Look at MLG? You can't say that there weren't top players there from Europe and the Americas playing there, and the Koreans swept it. Yeah they didn't go undefeated like they probably would have in BW (usually did, lol) but the skill gap is still clearly there. We're not ready to lump the world together, there's still a "foreigner" and a Korean scene - how many non-Koreans play in GSL? Not a whole lot, how many Koreans play in international tournaments? Again, not a whole lot.

I think the word is definitely needed and fine to use.

PS I'm a BW elitist clinging to my old ways.

Starshaped

Sweden575 Posts

June 14 2011 15:35 GMT

#40

On June 15 2011 00:08 ComaDose wrote:

Show nested quote +

This is not true and also not the reason for the term

Show nested quote +

Just because some self-hating nerds started calling themselves foreigners back in 1999 when the term was actually more or less applicable, we should use it today? How does that make sense to you? I don't care if it's a tradition from the BW days, it's still silly and stupid and should not be used.

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