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On June 09 2011 22:01 SolHeiM wrote:
How the fuck is being a receptionist anything like being an astrophysicist? And if you're going to be a receptionist for a team of astrophysicists you need to have knowledge of astrophysics because you handle requests involving astrophysics.
As Empyrean said, those jobs go to university students, postdocs or Ph.D students, not to some unemployed business school drop-out.
I don't understand why you're so hostile.
If he's out of luck, then he's out of luck. It's not like I said, "You MUST do this before switching courses." I just said it should be his top priority to learn about the job before he wastes too many years on it, and I said it may not be within the realm of possibility.
Like I said, he can at least see what life is like for a teacher.
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I haven't entered university yet, but I'm pretty sure they tell you what life is like as a professional in <science> during your first year or first month even when you're being introduced to your courses. And what you learn is going to be relevant for your entire life as a professional in your field. It's not going to be a surprise that after five or six years of obtaining a bachelors and masters degree you realize you don't like it because you thought it would be more fun.
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On June 09 2011 22:11 Warble wrote:And I have a degree I do not use. Guess what field it's in? I gave him advice I would have given myself in his situation. Seriously.
The advice you gave him is be a receptionist and you'll learn what it's like to be an astrophysicist. What you'll learn is what life is like as a receptionist.
Why the edit?
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Engineering and Business are the two best things to be in right now. Bonus points for both. Sciences come in a close second, but the applicability and availability of jobs is not as prevalent.
I've never agreed with NOT completing a degree however. See it though so you have something under your belt and change later. Don't waste the money you've already spent and let that accumulated knowledge go to waste. (It will go to waste if you don't have a degree to back it up; the associated credibility is everything in the working world.)
Honestly, science classes in university are very hard. Engineering classes are the hardest of the hard. Astrophysics classes are notoriously hard. My school has an Engineering and Physics Option that only 3 people have graduated from in the past 25 years. If you're not capable of doing the work then you're going to be sorely disappointed.
Honestly, as a mechanical engineer I have more of a shot of working in aerospace than you ever will. Even if you take astrophysics you'll likely end up in some branch of research that may not result in anything rewarding at all, and then you'll have to teach.
tl;dr
Stay the course and consider taking classes later out of interest/improvement. Consider science as a second degree to work towards. You might find that you're not cut out for the actual work, so you should at least have a Business degree to fall back on.
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Being a receptionist is better than nothing. At the same time it's not a total loss since he'll get paid and it's work experience (that's why I said to have a serious think before being willing to work for free).
If he sits at home and reads books on astrophysics he'll learn nothing about what it's like to be an astrophysicist.
If he works as a receptionist for an organisation that deals with astrophysics he'll get a clearer idea of the work they do and then he can talk to them during breaks.
I still reckon it's worth him applying. Sure, he'll probably get rejected. So what?
He still has a good shot at learning something about teaching.
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On June 09 2011 22:23 Warble wrote:
Being a receptionist is better than nothing. At the same time it's not a total loss since he'll get paid and it's work experience (that's why I said to have a serious think before being willing to work for free).
If he sits at home and reads books on astrophysics he'll learn nothing about what it's like to be an astrophysicist.
If he works as a receptionist for an organisation that deals with astrophysics he'll get a clearer idea of the work they do and then he can talk to them during breaks.
I still reckon it's worth him applying. Sure, he'll probably get rejected. So what?
He still has a good shot at learning something about teaching.
Then he might as well just call an astrophysicist and ask them what they do during the day instead of wasting a summer being a receptionist.
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On June 09 2011 22:33 SolHeiM wrote:Show nested quote +On June 09 2011 22:23 Warble wrote:
Being a receptionist is better than nothing. At the same time it's not a total loss since he'll get paid and it's work experience (that's why I said to have a serious think before being willing to work for free).
If he sits at home and reads books on astrophysics he'll learn nothing about what it's like to be an astrophysicist.
If he works as a receptionist for an organisation that deals with astrophysics he'll get a clearer idea of the work they do and then he can talk to them during breaks.
I still reckon it's worth him applying. Sure, he'll probably get rejected. So what?
He still has a good shot at learning something about teaching. Then he might as well just call an astrophysicist and ask them what they do during the day instead of wasting a summer being a receptionist.
If this was the case, internships wouldn't exist.
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You really want to affect society?
Give up your social life for four years save up enough for a lot of beer and get a B.Eng
One day you will be part of a 15 man team that patents a slightly better generator that will be popularized in industry buildings.
No one will ever know your name but you will save thousands and thousands of kWh over the years.
Get a nice little bonus for more beer.
Just saying your "ideologies" align better with applied engineering than academic physics.
ERTW
EDIT: TheGiz knows whats up.
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On June 09 2011 22:37 Bambipwnsu wrote:Show nested quote +On June 09 2011 22:33 SolHeiM wrote:On June 09 2011 22:23 Warble wrote:
Being a receptionist is better than nothing. At the same time it's not a total loss since he'll get paid and it's work experience (that's why I said to have a serious think before being willing to work for free).
If he sits at home and reads books on astrophysics he'll learn nothing about what it's like to be an astrophysicist.
If he works as a receptionist for an organisation that deals with astrophysics he'll get a clearer idea of the work they do and then he can talk to them during breaks.
I still reckon it's worth him applying. Sure, he'll probably get rejected. So what?
He still has a good shot at learning something about teaching. Then he might as well just call an astrophysicist and ask them what they do during the day instead of wasting a summer being a receptionist. If this was the case, internships wouldn't exist.
You haven't read what we've been discussing have you?
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Having briefly studied natural sciences and getting an engineering degree, I find that above all else you need to be passionate about your field -- everything else comes second to your curiosity and long-term interest in the subject. I enjoy cosmology as much as the next nerd, but realize that the majority of your studies will be in relativistic physics, optics, a little chemistry, a little electronics -- a bit of work all around and it won't all be interesting at first.
My best advice if you have an opportunity is to find out what kind of laboratory work you can get as a student (you will probably have to take relevant classes first and the pay will suck). Talk to graduate students and post docs in the lab, see if the grunt work is for you. If you find the grunt work interesting, then it's probably a good field for you.
My impression of astronomy is that it is less hobby eye-telescoping in a night time observatory and more computer programming of telescopes and signal analysis of the data by day. You'll probably be staring at a computer screen most of the time.
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Sure, if you can get much information out of an astrophysicist just by cold calling, you can get some useful information that way, and trying to do that is pretty much a given. I still think it's worthwhile to try to get a job there over the summer.
It's all about opportunity costs. He's a student, so what would he have been doing over that summer? Probably working or on vacation. If he's already working, then sending out 5 extra resumes gives him a slim chance of learning even more about his future career. Is it worth giving up the vacation? That's up to him.
By the way, SolHeiM, I removed my post above because I felt I was making things too personal and cheap. Would you mind removing the quote from your post too? Your post will still make sense afterwards. Then we can discuss the idea on its merits rather than on personal qualifications.
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17078 Posts
On June 09 2011 22:15 TheGiz wrote:
Engineering and Business are the two best things to be in right now. Bonus points for both. Sciences come in a close second, but the applicability and availability of jobs is not as prevalent.
I highly disagree with business being a useful thing to major in as an undergrad. The American tertiary education system churns out legions of "business" majors every year and I'd be willing to bet a great deal that the vast majority get entry level bitch jobs or jobs in the service industry. Not as bad as, say, communications, but still, not very good. Unless you go into a rigorous program like Wharton or something (and by something I mean a very few select other programs), you're not going to learn anything substantive, and the glitzy high pay jobs you're going after will have been taken by computer scientists, mathematicians, and engineers.
As for being a receptionist for an astrophysicist, I think it's a pretty bad idea. At the very best, you're going to work for a bemused professor who thinks the idea of a secretary being interested in physics is charming. My Fair Lady style.
By all means, OP, only you can decide what's best for you after carefully weighing your options. If you're passionate enough to pursue a degree in physics, then by all means. I feel like I say this way too much, and sorry if I'm being a downer, but sometimes idealism needs to give way to reality.
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On June 09 2011 22:08 SolHeiM wrote:
I haven't entered university yet, but I'm pretty sure they tell you what life is like as a professional in <science> during your first year or first month even when you're being introduced to your courses. And what you learn is going to be relevant for your entire life as a professional in your field. It's not going to be a surprise that after five or six years of obtaining a bachelors and masters degree you realize you don't like it because you thought it would be more fun.
nahh that never happens
(lol)
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On June 09 2011 19:33 micronesia wrote:
I have a few thoughts:
[list]
[*]Don't go into teaching just because you love the topic that you want to teach (not saying this is necessarily you, but just keep this in mind). This is less big of a deal for being a professor but it is also very difficult to become a professor. Also, most teachers don't just teach astronomy in high schools.
Can you go more into this micronesia?
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On June 09 2011 22:39 SolHeiM wrote:Show nested quote +On June 09 2011 22:37 Bambipwnsu wrote:On June 09 2011 22:33 SolHeiM wrote:On June 09 2011 22:23 Warble wrote:
Being a receptionist is better than nothing. At the same time it's not a total loss since he'll get paid and it's work experience (that's why I said to have a serious think before being willing to work for free).
If he sits at home and reads books on astrophysics he'll learn nothing about what it's like to be an astrophysicist.
If he works as a receptionist for an organisation that deals with astrophysics he'll get a clearer idea of the work they do and then he can talk to them during breaks.
I still reckon it's worth him applying. Sure, he'll probably get rejected. So what?
He still has a good shot at learning something about teaching. Then he might as well just call an astrophysicist and ask them what they do during the day instead of wasting a summer being a receptionist. If this was the case, internships wouldn't exist. You haven't read what we've been discussing have you?
I have. I don't know what you want me to catch here. Warble is suggesting he gets some experience working as close as he possibly can to the field instead of staying at home reading books all day. He hasn't taken any classes yet and this is a way for him to get a feel for what he is getting into. I don't see how this is a terrible idea? It doesn't have to be being a receptionist at all either. He could even work for free helping at the center. You learn things by seeing them first hand. You see years of experience at work. Same way fashion designers intern at clothing companies. How do you substitute first-hand experience with a phone call?
If this is so terrible what is your alternative?
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First, I would definitely finish the business degree, which you seem to be planning on doing. You are probably underestimating how hard it is to get a degree in the hard sciences. I was consistently in the top 10% of my medical school, but as an undergrad the physics and chemistry majors I hung out with would blow me away.
As with any big change it is probably best to start slow. How about just taking 1 or 2 classes next semester, or even just buying the textbooks and asking the professors if you can audit the classes. I doubt the astrophysics class is too crowded at your school. If you can catch up on the math and are really enjoying yourself then you can consider pursuing the major.
Good luck.
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17078 Posts
On June 09 2011 23:06 Ilikestarcraft wrote:Show nested quote +On June 09 2011 19:33 micronesia wrote:
I have a few thoughts:
[list]
[*]Don't go into teaching just because you love the topic that you want to teach (not saying this is necessarily you, but just keep this in mind). This is less big of a deal for being a professor but it is also very difficult to become a professor. Also, most teachers don't just teach astronomy in high schools. Can you go more into this micronesia?
I'm not micronesia, but can you think of a high school that would be willing to hire a teacher to solely teach intro. to astronomy to high school students?
A high school where you can find enough students to take that class is rare enough.
As for becoming a professor, you're first going to need a PhD, then fight through the legions of other PhDs for the few academic positions available.
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Don't want to be an ass but you don't exactly seem like the most intelligent or the most dedicated guy around. You said you wanted to do business at the beggining, but changed your mind half way through.
Well first of all the same thing may happen with physics, and you will be wasting your parents cash, even more of it anyway, and second if you're failing business classes i'm having a hard time believing you'll pass physics classes. I don't know if your failing is only because you don't care about what you're doing, but to pass physics , unless your very gifted, you will be putting in many hours of studying.
I would reccomend working in the business field and saving for a portion of your physics education. if you decide that you want it so much, are so convinced that you'll stick to it that you're willing to give up your own savings, and not only your parent's, then do it. If it's not worth that much too you you're probably not going to pass, or stick with it anyway
EDIT: If you plan on being a teacher you'll be teaching the same stuff every year, and no longer "discovering" all the new and interesting physics topics. If you enjoy physics because it's something fresh in your life, then becoming a teacher is not a good idea
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I did something similiar. I started out doing two years of accounting before switching to science.
Most of the astro classes are run through physics departments, so make sure to brush up on your math and physics. Also I imagine your first two years will be full of general sciences like compsci and chemistry as well.
You mention you've taken some rather slow semesters (two courses) and failed courses multiple times. You should know, you have to sit through a lot of random bullshit classes that have nothing to do with what you're interested in regardless of what program you choose.
Also, at least from the universities I've attended 4 courses is only 80% courseload, and I wouldn't suggest rushing through it going through the summer as well. I've done that before, and it will burn you out fast.
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EPT
