I didn't think this warranted a thread in General, so I thought I'd just blog it out.
I've spent the last three and a half years slowly working through a Business Diploma (two year degree). Due to a combination of working, and not giving a shit about anything I've been learning, it has taken quite some time. I've had several semesters where I've only done two courses, and I've failed some courses multiple times.
But here I am now, three and a half years since starting fresh out of high school, and I need to change my major. I have no interest in business. I thought I did, but I've changed a lot since then. I no longer have any desire for money or wealth, and I'm filled with an ambition to, in some way, even if it's a tiny blip, to have some affect on society, humanity and the world. I have no desire to try and sell some product, or some service, work in a cubical, make business decisions based off accounting information, or work my way up some corporate ladder.
I spend my free time, the time in between work, school and girlfriend, reading Discovery News, reading wikis, articles and watching videos regarding people like Carl Sagan, Richard Feynman, and Einstein or topics such as Super String Theory/M-theory, Astronomy, Cosmology, TED videos, etc. I've really gotten in-touch with my inner-nerd.
Astronomy and Cosmology have been one of my favourite sciences for a couple of years now, I really can't get enough of them. I'm constantly annoying friends and family with random facts that I find so fascinating (which no one else seems to have much care for). It blows my mind that people don't share the same enthusiasm as myself about the Universe.
I'm seriously contemplating finishing off my Business Diploma (which will be done this semester), and starting all over again and getting a degree in Cosmology or Astrophysics. I haven't said anything to the parents yet. I'm fortunate enough to have very financially supportive parents. But I know this is going to sound ridiculous to them, especially considering it has taken me this long just to get a two year degree. But I can seriously see myself being a professor or high school teacher of such topics, even if it's just introductory astronomy. I want to learn and explore more of the Universe, and change the lives of others by teaching them what I know in the process. I also have this desire to cram my brain with as much knowledge as possible; I want to make myself smarter! What I've learned in my spare time over the last year through internet sources, has really changed my perspective on life, reality, and our existence. Money isn't an issue to me at all; I only want to live comfortably. I originally got into business because I was a naive high school kid who wanted to own a Ferrari some day.
Is anyone else majoring in such topics? What's the work load like? How are you enjoying it thus far?
The glass-half-empty side of my conscience is worried that this is just a cliche phase in the life of any twenty-one year old. I gaze into the night sky with a level of understanding and different perspective from my peers. I guess I'm just afraid that I will get burnt out before I have anything to show for it. I also want to become financially independent from my parents, but I won't be able to work enough to support myself while taking on such a high amount of schooling (if I do switch my major, I'm going to get through it ASAP; 4 courses a semester, every semester, including summer). My father really wants to retire; he's worked hard his whole life, and I want to finally see him relax and enjoy life to its fullest. I feel as though the financial burden of my education, and just general support of my living, is an anchor to this goal of his.
I've never really been focused during this diploma. Studying accounting, economics and organizational behavior is torture for me. My parents have recognized this and that is why they're going to be choked to hear I want to start all over again.
But I know I'll be able to knuckle down if I love what I'm learning.
I've also never done any form of traveling. I was thinking that perhaps I should meet new and interesting people, and explore new cultures and different parts of the world. I also really want to travel to South America to drink some ayahusca, in addition to trying psilocybin mushrooms this summer. Perhaps such experiences will give me more direction haha.
I want to live a happy and fulfilling life. I believe at this time that a career in Cosmology, Astrophysics, Astronomy, or teaching said topics, is the path to such fulfillment. I want to break down the egos of others, and change perspectives on the system, our way of life, and the state of Humanity with these disciplines as my tools. I feel lucky to be the generation of the paradigm shift; I think we'll experience some great things in the next half century, mainly of a technological nature. Perhaps I'll some day have the opportunity to go into space myself with such a career?
What to do TL-net? What alternatives to switching majors would you recommend? Am I being too hasty in my decision? Should I just go for it? Am I overlooking anything?
Don't go into teaching just because you love the topic that you want to teach (not saying this is necessarily you, but just keep this in mind). This is less big of a deal for being a professor but it is also very difficult to become a professor. Also, most teachers don't just teach astronomy in high schools.
It will be convenient if your belief that you will buckle down in astronomy is founded and that you won't have the problems with the new degree that you have had with the current one... but my guess is (without knowing you) that you won't be able to escape the problems you had with your business program. I don't think any of my classmates when I was a physics major were people who would have failed to get their business degree in 2 years like they had originally planned.
What type of program of study would you do exactly? Can you study cosmology as an undergraduate? My college had astronomy as an optional add-on to physics as an undergrad. By the way, are you prepared to do a ton of math?
Hopefully my advice and that of others will help you make a decision.
If you want to travel and explore cultures, a career in anthropology and/or archaeology is a great choice for that.
But if you really want to break down egos of others and have an effect on society or people, a career in criminology or forensic psychology is probably the best choice. You get to catch murderers, crush their egos because they think they are smarter than the police and you get to change peoples lives by giving victims families closure and save future possible victims.
Sure it's not going to be like an action movie or TV-show but personally I'm considering a career in criminology and forensic psychology because the psychology of serial killers fascinate me. And if I can save a human life by stopping a murderer then that's more valuable than any amount of money.
-Am I underestimating the amount of math I'll be doing? Most likely. I failed grade 12 math twice (got it on the third attempt, lol), simply because I never did homework. I then found myself in a situation where I had to pass a Calculus 1 course, and got 92% overall; this was the first time I realized I was capable of doing well at anything I really set my mind to; the thought of even getting a C+ in such a course seemed ridiculous at the time). I've always been someone full of potential, but never succeeded due to focus. I'm hoping my new found passion for these subjects will spark the focus I've always been lacking. Business courses have always been easy, and I've recognized this. Essentially zero homework and not doing the readings, and getting through just from class lectures is what's hindered me throughout my post-secondary career. I'm thinking the fact that these courses will be so intellectually demanding, is what will motivate me.
-Does it take a special type of person to do sciences? Like you said (micronesia), none of your classmates were the type of people who'd fail to get a business degree. I feel like I'd definitely need a whole new approach to education to do this. But what makes me optimistic are the few electives I have taken in the past few years, such as Intro. Astronomy, Psychology, and Philosophy, that I thoroughly enjoyed and easily got high marks in; I was able to dedicate to studying because I enjoyed what I was learning. Some people, like your classmates for example, may have been those type of people that can be successful in anything, whether they hate what they're learning or not.
-My current University doesn't offer any programs. I'm going to have to do a general science diploma, or a minor in physics and transfer to a new school. The diploma requires me to take courses from several disciplines, but I have the choice to also focus in specific areas (which will be physics in my case, with Astronomy electives). I still don't know the full details of the transferable programs, I've yet to seek education advice as I'm still on the fence about going for this.
On June 09 2011 19:38 SolHeiM wrote: Sure it's not going to be like an action movie or TV-show but personally I'm considering a career in criminology and forensic psychology because the psychology of serial killers fascinate me. And if I can save a human life by stopping a murderer then that's more valuable than any amount of money.
I doubt you need to be special (as in genius) to do a good job in science as long as you make it a point to really know your subject. A scientist reads a lot because they have to be kept up to date on everything that's relevant to their field. If you are passionate about your subject you're going to excel at it because you want to know everything that relates to it.
Please make sure you truly love the subject, and not just pop sci cosmology and string theory that tends to "pollute" an "outsider" perception of the sciences. Calculus I is probably not going to be enough to get you through a physics degree.
On June 09 2011 19:38 SolHeiM wrote: Sure it's not going to be like an action movie or TV-show but personally I'm considering a career in criminology and forensic psychology because the psychology of serial killers fascinate me. And if I can save a human life by stopping a murderer then that's more valuable than any amount of money.
On June 09 2011 19:53 Carnivorous Sheep wrote: Please make sure you truly love the subject, and not just pop sci cosmology and string theory that tends to "pollute" an "outsider" perception of the sciences. Calculus I is probably not going to be enough to get you through a physics degree.
Agreed. The YouTube stuff you watch on String Theory and Astronomy etc that sum out decades worth of scientific work is very dumbed down and is meant to be easy to understand to attract ratings. Don't think that at any point in your early undergraduate career its going to be discussions on String theory and mind fucks galore - it'll be by the textbook math and physics and a lot of things you may find tedious.
Not trying to discourage you because if you truly have a passion for this stuff, you'll work through all of it. To really get involved in the latest science happenings, you'll probably have to get into research, and profs really want a strong background in basic college math and physics before they mentor you, and even then you have to work your way up to a decent level of understanding of the subject. To work your way into being a professor from grad school is even more tough, you have to publish some really groundbreaking or thought provoking work!
I guess to leave off on a more positive note - switching majors to something you really enjoy is like a huge breath of fresh air. There is a lot of overhead and GE's you may need to take care of but once you study the things you really enjoy its a great invigorating feeling. I have no idea what type of person you are but I hope your decisions bring you out of your current rut!
Get jobs in the fields you're considering (teaching, astronomy, astrophysics) or as close as you can get with your background.
Your aim is to see the work and do the work for a few months so you can learn what it will be like. Your mentors will be valuable sources of knowledge.
Then decide.
It will be hard because nobody will want to give you a job. Nevertheless, every kid should be doing this. Making a career decision without ever having experienced the job?
On June 09 2011 20:56 Warble wrote: Seriously? The best advice I can give you?
Get jobs in the fields you're considering (teaching, astronomy, astrophysics) or as close as you can get with your background.
Your aim is to see the work and do the work for a few months so you can learn what it will be like. Your mentors will be valuable sources of knowledge.
Then decide.
It will be hard because nobody will want to give you a job. Nevertheless, every kid should be doing this. Making a career decision without ever having experienced the job?
Seriously.
Please tell me where you can get a job in astrophysics with no knowledge of the subject and work there for a few months being dead weight. Jobs like that go to students who are actually in school majoring in that subject because they are there to learn.
It will take a long time to reach the topics you are interested in if you start science now. But you should do it anyways because science is the best. Its a lot of really hard work, totally different from the work that you have been doing in business. You are finishing your degree after committing to it for 3 years right? You definitely should.
EDIT: about not reaching the topics you find interesting for a long time basically what the person beneath me said. Lots lots lots of things to cover before you get there.
On June 09 2011 20:56 Warble wrote: Seriously? The best advice I can give you?
Get jobs in the fields you're considering (teaching, astronomy, astrophysics) or as close as you can get with your background.
Your aim is to see the work and do the work for a few months so you can learn what it will be like. Your mentors will be valuable sources of knowledge.
Then decide.
It will be hard because nobody will want to give you a job. Nevertheless, every kid should be doing this. Making a career decision without ever having experienced the job?
Seriously.
Rofl, the only jobs in astronomy or astrophyics are going to physics PhDs or postdocs.
Also, for the math, expect to go through calc 3, linear algebra, pde/odes and perhaps some analysis. You might also need to take more advanced calculus (things like method of residues, contour integration, etc.), but you also might not.
There's no way calc one is going to get you through anything in physics except a basic mechanics class (and probably something like basic optics, too, but that generally has prereqs that require more calc).
So yeah, I'd brush up on your math now. Real physics is nothing like what it's being sold to the public as.
I went into college wanting to major in political science and economics. I realized I only liked my math classes and switched to a math major. I'm barely into my second year of the program and it's damn near wasted me.
The big problem is catching up in sciences. I didn't take any sciences in high school so I have had to start at the bottom. I was very much like you. I loved reading wikis and all sorts of fascinating books on physics and the wonders of the world.
But there is a huge difference in reading A Brief History of Time and taking a real physics class on mechanics. You don't just sit in a lecture and listen to the professor read a whack ton of cool, interesting facts about the universe. No. It is very difficult. Very difficult. Let me emphasize that for you: Very Difficult. It is a lot more tedious and rigorous than what is shown in documentaries and pop sci books. There is a huge difference between Liberal Arts/Business and Sciences. Sciences are very difficult and require a lot of time, hard work, dedication, and even more motivation.
The whole last year all I wanted to do was be a mathematician. I love math. I read all the books, love all my homework, love my lectures, and love the community. I've become quite entrenched in it. I also realized, after that year (circa now), that this will never happen. The biggest thing I have to look forward to is to enjoy the upper level math classes that I am so excited for (Number Theory, Real Analysis, Group Theory) and, hopefully, get accepted into a Charted Accountant program when I'm done the BSc. I am just not as good as the people who have been into it their whole lives, the ones who will go onto good PhD programs and get professorships.
Also if you plan to be a scientist, you will most likely wind up being somebodys lab bitch. You will not make good pay. The politics in academia is just as ruthless and competitive as anywhere else, if not more.
After reading your post, you seem like a very idealistic person with intents on helping humanity, advancing our knowledge about the world, and whatnot. This was like me when I first went into a science degree a few years ago. However, after grinding it out for a degree and seeing the inner workings of a research lab (the endless failures, the excruciatingly slow progress, the grant committee!!), I lost some of that spark heh.
As has been stated above, real science is not that simple. The underlying goals are idealistic but there is a lot of politics, jerks, and other setbacks. It takes a special person to rise above all the BS and still just love the topic they're working on. (I'm referring to research - which is something you need to do as a prof lol)
Anyways, I would suggest looking into what a professor's day is like and whether or not you would enjoy doing the things he/she does. I'm sure there must be blogs and stuff out there... try to see both sides before deciding. At the end of the day, science can be very rewarding!
On June 09 2011 21:31 rushz0rz wrote: Also if you plan to be a scientist, you will most likely wind up being somebodys lab bitch. You will not make good pay. The politics in academia is just as ruthless and competitive as anywhere else, if not more.
Go for a Ph.D. and you get bitches assigned to you. I don't like how you just throw in the towel because it was a little difficult for you. Just gives up on the dream because it got a little tough.
On June 09 2011 21:31 rushz0rz wrote: Also if you plan to be a scientist, you will most likely wind up being somebodys lab bitch. You will not make good pay. The politics in academia is just as ruthless and competitive as anywhere else, if not more.
Go for a Ph.D. and you get bitches assigned to you. I don't like how you just throw in the towel because it was a little difficult for you. Just gives up on the dream because it got a little tough.
LOL. It is quite hard to get into a worthwhile PhD program. And then you have to do something worthwhile.
On June 09 2011 21:31 rushz0rz wrote: Also if you plan to be a scientist, you will most likely wind up being somebodys lab bitch. You will not make good pay. The politics in academia is just as ruthless and competitive as anywhere else, if not more.
Go for a Ph.D. and you get bitches assigned to you. I don't like how you just throw in the towel because it was a little difficult for you. Just gives up on the dream because it got a little tough.
LOL. It is quite hard to get into a worthwhile PhD program. And then you have to do something worthwhile.
You can actually start your own program and apply for a research grant. There are tens of thousands of universities all over the world. Some dude did a Ph.D. on Che Guevara (or w/e his name is). If you want to do a Ph.D. there are universities who offer them if you just look hard enough.
On June 09 2011 20:56 Warble wrote: Seriously? The best advice I can give you?
Get jobs in the fields you're considering (teaching, astronomy, astrophysics) or as close as you can get with your background.
Your aim is to see the work and do the work for a few months so you can learn what it will be like. Your mentors will be valuable sources of knowledge.
Then decide.
It will be hard because nobody will want to give you a job. Nevertheless, every kid should be doing this. Making a career decision without ever having experienced the job?
Seriously.
Please tell me where you can get a job in astrophysics with no knowledge of the subject and work there for a few months being dead weight. Jobs like that go to students who are actually in school majoring in that subject because they are there to learn.
I said it will be hard.
The problem is that you're thinking too literally. Of course you can't get a job as an astrophysicist without having qualifications as an astrophysicist. So you don't go for that.
The key is to get a job as close as you can get.
Be a receptionist. Be the unskilled lackey who does all the boring jobs like entering the numbers onto the spreadsheets. Work for free if you have to (although consider what you're giving up).
Yes, it will still be hard. Like I said, nobody will want to give you a job.
But hell, it is still the best thing you can do and it is still worth trying.
Because the alternative is wasting another year of your life and adding to your crippling debt. Or worse: he learns he's good at the maths and he wastes 4 years of his life and learns that the job itself is very different from the training (studying).
At least he can try out for one of the jobs on his list (teaching). It is much easier to get something near that job.
Look, what I'm saying is, don't think you know how you feel on the job until you've done the job or at least seen it firsthand. I enjoy SC2 and poker but I wouldn't want to play either for a living. In many fields there's a big difference between enjoying the subject and actually doing it for a living.
What does it cost you to try to get a job that gets you in touch with an astrophysicist? A few hours typing up resumes and cover letters, a few hours researching likely prospects, and maybe $50 in printing costs and postage. Then you spend your summer working there, or maybe your free days during semester (if you land a job).
I never said you can't start studying the field while doing this. But it's better to learn that you hate working as an astrophysicist in your 2nd year than after you've graduated. And it's easier to get placements in your 2nd year than before you've started.
Come to think of it, Freeloss, have you actually worked in the fields that your current studies would lead to? They might not reflect your studies at all. Just a thought.
EDIT: I should add that one of your goals will be to talk to the veterans in the field while you're working near them. Not while on the job, of course. On your lunch breaks or something. Let's face it: if they're nice enough to give you a job there, then they'll probably be willing to help you decide whether your future lays there.
How the fuck is being a receptionist anything like being an astrophysicist? And if you're going to be a receptionist for a team of astrophysicists you need to have knowledge of astrophysics because you handle requests involving astrophysics.
As Empyrean said, those jobs go to university students, postdocs or Ph.D students, not to some unemployed business school drop-out.
EPT
More something like the Behavioral Analysis Unit based in Quantico, Virginia for example. 
