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Thank you so much, Team Liquid mods.
I finally slogged through all of that, aided only by a few beacons of light and reason shining through the chaos and darkness of the masses...not necessarily limited to mods or "power users", of course.
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On June 09 2011 08:26 Rekrul wrote:Show nested quote +On June 09 2011 08:13 Megaliskuu wrote:On June 09 2011 08:09 Rekrul wrote:On June 09 2011 08:01 Lunares wrote:On June 09 2011 07:48 Liquid`Drone wrote:On June 09 2011 07:32 Lunares wrote:On June 09 2011 07:17 Liquid`Drone wrote:
Oh come on guys, some of you must have been blinded by years of media bs giving you a feeling of fucking entitlement. Ret doesn't owe any of you an explanation, because this entire issue is wholly irrelevant to everyone but three or four people. I can understand that this is a funny story and that it produces some entertainment value, but how are any of you influenced by this? You don't know what girl in question and ret talked about in private. you don't know what ex boyfriend and girl in question talked about in private. you don't know what ret's perception of girl in question and ex boyfriend's relationship status was. ret is by no means obliged to tell you either - his status as a professional starcraft two gamer does not mean that every aspect of his private life is up to scrutiny. enjoy the show if you want, but with the exception of ex-boyfriend, none of you have the right to be judgemental. You can't really say that his private life should be staying private. "Famous" people (obviously I am using that term loosely as no SC2 player is really "famous" in north america) do not have the same expectation of privacy, at least in NA, as do the everyday person. There are no laws or anything regarding the matter. The fact is that when you have many people who are your fans, or look up to you, then your personal behavior is subject to more scrutiny simply because you have more people watching what you do. The same is true for any sports star or actor, anything "personal" they do that reflects badly upon them is quite often found out by paparazzi and sold. Gossip, drama, etc is a good business. Ret is by no means obliged to tell us anything but we absolutely have the right to be judgemental, especially if we are only given one side of a story that paints ret in a bad light that he refuses to refute. His image is a.) something people look up to, admire, or want to watch and b.) reflective of him, TeamLiquid, and all the according sponsors. That is what happens when you are someone with at least some importance. I am sorely disappointed that he didn't realize this and approach this situation much better, and I know that I am not alone. Something like this reflects badly upon his professional team and that is why it is subject to more scrutiny. If it didn't effect others then yes it wouldn't be an issue. But he is a representative of a brand and therefore yes I am influenced by this. I know that I am much less likely to want to watch his games for at least the short term simply because I wouldn't like the player. 1: Yes, famous people have been victims of paparazzis and lack of privacy for years. But isn't this pretty fucking horrible? I mean, in some instances you have dumb celebrities who want fame for the sake of being famous - and in that case they did give up their privacy. But for most celebrities, they are celebrities through being exceptionally good at something - and the fame and thus lack of privacy is something of a negative, unintended consequence. In fact, you might say that this sort of, gossipy behaviour, is in fact discouraging exceptionalism. And that, to me, is bad. 2: Just because something is good business, does not mean it should be encouraged. Weapons, prostitution and drugs make up three of the biggest industries in the world. While at least two out of these three might give you entertainment, I think we can largely agree that they contribute more bad than good. 3: The reason why you cannot be judgemental is that you are judging based on incomplete information. So far you have heard the story of one disgruntled part whom is obviously really biased, one part has not posted anything, and the third part has posted that not everything posted is true, but that he feels this is within his private sphere and that it is none of your concern. That should end it - it's none of your concern. Ret is a sc2 player, judge him based on that. I think there's a difference between europe and usa in this aspect though, you have far more people who are famous for being famous, and with the exception of england, the right to privacy is far more respected in europe - unless someone's private actions are actually in direct conflict with their public persona, then I don't see how it matters at all. Going forward however there are lessons to be learned. Forging e-sports into something that is actually respected though means that we really do need to avoid situations like this, for both the sport and the players. For the sport this just reflects badly. Yes it happens in established sports, but what kind of image do people get of e-sports when they hear of players acting like this? For Ret himself it even does have consequences. It's extremely unlikely but if he is in a close position with another player to get invited to a tournament couldn't the tournament sponsors decide to go with someone else to avoid a negative incident associated with the sponsors? LMAO once again the "For the future of e-sports we just can't let this happen!" nonsense. Get a clue. No u see u don''t realize now that this has happened hundreds of thousands of dollars wont be going to esports, prospective tourneys that were going to be the greatest have ceased, and companies have now shunned esports as a whole, the entire scene is gonna collapse within days! + Show Spoiler + Show nested quote +On June 09 2011 08:16 lindn wrote:On June 09 2011 08:09 Rekrul wrote:On June 09 2011 08:01 Lunares wrote:On June 09 2011 07:48 Liquid`Drone wrote:On June 09 2011 07:32 Lunares wrote:On June 09 2011 07:17 Liquid`Drone wrote:
Oh come on guys, some of you must have been blinded by years of media bs giving you a feeling of fucking entitlement. Ret doesn't owe any of you an explanation, because this entire issue is wholly irrelevant to everyone but three or four people. I can understand that this is a funny story and that it produces some entertainment value, but how are any of you influenced by this? You don't know what girl in question and ret talked about in private. you don't know what ex boyfriend and girl in question talked about in private. you don't know what ret's perception of girl in question and ex boyfriend's relationship status was. ret is by no means obliged to tell you either - his status as a professional starcraft two gamer does not mean that every aspect of his private life is up to scrutiny. enjoy the show if you want, but with the exception of ex-boyfriend, none of you have the right to be judgemental. You can't really say that his private life should be staying private. "Famous" people (obviously I am using that term loosely as no SC2 player is really "famous" in north america) do not have the same expectation of privacy, at least in NA, as do the everyday person. There are no laws or anything regarding the matter. The fact is that when you have many people who are your fans, or look up to you, then your personal behavior is subject to more scrutiny simply because you have more people watching what you do. The same is true for any sports star or actor, anything "personal" they do that reflects badly upon them is quite often found out by paparazzi and sold. Gossip, drama, etc is a good business. Ret is by no means obliged to tell us anything but we absolutely have the right to be judgemental, especially if we are only given one side of a story that paints ret in a bad light that he refuses to refute. His image is a.) something people look up to, admire, or want to watch and b.) reflective of him, TeamLiquid, and all the according sponsors. That is what happens when you are someone with at least some importance. I am sorely disappointed that he didn't realize this and approach this situation much better, and I know that I am not alone. Something like this reflects badly upon his professional team and that is why it is subject to more scrutiny. If it didn't effect others then yes it wouldn't be an issue. But he is a representative of a brand and therefore yes I am influenced by this. I know that I am much less likely to want to watch his games for at least the short term simply because I wouldn't like the player. 1: Yes, famous people have been victims of paparazzis and lack of privacy for years. But isn't this pretty fucking horrible? I mean, in some instances you have dumb celebrities who want fame for the sake of being famous - and in that case they did give up their privacy. But for most celebrities, they are celebrities through being exceptionally good at something - and the fame and thus lack of privacy is something of a negative, unintended consequence. In fact, you might say that this sort of, gossipy behaviour, is in fact discouraging exceptionalism. And that, to me, is bad. 2: Just because something is good business, does not mean it should be encouraged. Weapons, prostitution and drugs make up three of the biggest industries in the world. While at least two out of these three might give you entertainment, I think we can largely agree that they contribute more bad than good. 3: The reason why you cannot be judgemental is that you are judging based on incomplete information. So far you have heard the story of one disgruntled part whom is obviously really biased, one part has not posted anything, and the third part has posted that not everything posted is true, but that he feels this is within his private sphere and that it is none of your concern. That should end it - it's none of your concern. Ret is a sc2 player, judge him based on that. I think there's a difference between europe and usa in this aspect though, you have far more people who are famous for being famous, and with the exception of england, the right to privacy is far more respected in europe - unless someone's private actions are actually in direct conflict with their public persona, then I don't see how it matters at all. Going forward however there are lessons to be learned. Forging e-sports into something that is actually respected though means that we really do need to avoid situations like this, for both the sport and the players. For the sport this just reflects badly. Yes it happens in established sports, but what kind of image do people get of e-sports when they hear of players acting like this? For Ret himself it even does have consequences. It's extremely unlikely but if he is in a close position with another player to get invited to a tournament couldn't the tournament sponsors decide to go with someone else to avoid a negative incident associated with the sponsors? LMAO once again the "For the future of e-sports we just can't let this happen!" nonsense. Get a clue. I think I can safely say that YOU ARE HURTING ESPORTS by laughing at that fine piece of post Fine. I apologize for my actions in the past. No more pro-gaming gossip threads or anything ever. For E-SPORTS!
No please for the love of god! Dont apologize Sir, you are the thread-hero your page 2 post made my day.
GG and please more gossip at least its something cool to kill some time with while these 80% lousy cheesy sc2 games are live.
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Saying that we deserve to know player's secrets because progamers are nothing without fans is like saying that Coca-cola needs to disclose their exact formula and methods of production because they would be nothing without people buying their product.
It's completely ludicrous.
EDIT:
On June 09 2011 08:26 Rekrul wrote:Show nested quote +On June 09 2011 08:13 Megaliskuu wrote:On June 09 2011 08:09 Rekrul wrote:On June 09 2011 08:01 Lunares wrote:On June 09 2011 07:48 Liquid`Drone wrote:On June 09 2011 07:32 Lunares wrote:On June 09 2011 07:17 Liquid`Drone wrote:
Oh come on guys, some of you must have been blinded by years of media bs giving you a feeling of fucking entitlement. Ret doesn't owe any of you an explanation, because this entire issue is wholly irrelevant to everyone but three or four people. I can understand that this is a funny story and that it produces some entertainment value, but how are any of you influenced by this? You don't know what girl in question and ret talked about in private. you don't know what ex boyfriend and girl in question talked about in private. you don't know what ret's perception of girl in question and ex boyfriend's relationship status was. ret is by no means obliged to tell you either - his status as a professional starcraft two gamer does not mean that every aspect of his private life is up to scrutiny. enjoy the show if you want, but with the exception of ex-boyfriend, none of you have the right to be judgemental. You can't really say that his private life should be staying private. "Famous" people (obviously I am using that term loosely as no SC2 player is really "famous" in north america) do not have the same expectation of privacy, at least in NA, as do the everyday person. There are no laws or anything regarding the matter. The fact is that when you have many people who are your fans, or look up to you, then your personal behavior is subject to more scrutiny simply because you have more people watching what you do. The same is true for any sports star or actor, anything "personal" they do that reflects badly upon them is quite often found out by paparazzi and sold. Gossip, drama, etc is a good business. Ret is by no means obliged to tell us anything but we absolutely have the right to be judgemental, especially if we are only given one side of a story that paints ret in a bad light that he refuses to refute. His image is a.) something people look up to, admire, or want to watch and b.) reflective of him, TeamLiquid, and all the according sponsors. That is what happens when you are someone with at least some importance. I am sorely disappointed that he didn't realize this and approach this situation much better, and I know that I am not alone. Something like this reflects badly upon his professional team and that is why it is subject to more scrutiny. If it didn't effect others then yes it wouldn't be an issue. But he is a representative of a brand and therefore yes I am influenced by this. I know that I am much less likely to want to watch his games for at least the short term simply because I wouldn't like the player. 1: Yes, famous people have been victims of paparazzis and lack of privacy for years. But isn't this pretty fucking horrible? I mean, in some instances you have dumb celebrities who want fame for the sake of being famous - and in that case they did give up their privacy. But for most celebrities, they are celebrities through being exceptionally good at something - and the fame and thus lack of privacy is something of a negative, unintended consequence. In fact, you might say that this sort of, gossipy behaviour, is in fact discouraging exceptionalism. And that, to me, is bad. 2: Just because something is good business, does not mean it should be encouraged. Weapons, prostitution and drugs make up three of the biggest industries in the world. While at least two out of these three might give you entertainment, I think we can largely agree that they contribute more bad than good. 3: The reason why you cannot be judgemental is that you are judging based on incomplete information. So far you have heard the story of one disgruntled part whom is obviously really biased, one part has not posted anything, and the third part has posted that not everything posted is true, but that he feels this is within his private sphere and that it is none of your concern. That should end it - it's none of your concern. Ret is a sc2 player, judge him based on that. I think there's a difference between europe and usa in this aspect though, you have far more people who are famous for being famous, and with the exception of england, the right to privacy is far more respected in europe - unless someone's private actions are actually in direct conflict with their public persona, then I don't see how it matters at all. Going forward however there are lessons to be learned. Forging e-sports into something that is actually respected though means that we really do need to avoid situations like this, for both the sport and the players. For the sport this just reflects badly. Yes it happens in established sports, but what kind of image do people get of e-sports when they hear of players acting like this? For Ret himself it even does have consequences. It's extremely unlikely but if he is in a close position with another player to get invited to a tournament couldn't the tournament sponsors decide to go with someone else to avoid a negative incident associated with the sponsors? LMAO once again the "For the future of e-sports we just can't let this happen!" nonsense. Get a clue. No u see u don''t realize now that this has happened hundreds of thousands of dollars wont be going to esports, prospective tourneys that were going to be the greatest have ceased, and companies have now shunned esports as a whole, the entire scene is gonna collapse within days! + Show Spoiler + Show nested quote +On June 09 2011 08:16 lindn wrote:On June 09 2011 08:09 Rekrul wrote:On June 09 2011 08:01 Lunares wrote:On June 09 2011 07:48 Liquid`Drone wrote:On June 09 2011 07:32 Lunares wrote:On June 09 2011 07:17 Liquid`Drone wrote:
Oh come on guys, some of you must have been blinded by years of media bs giving you a feeling of fucking entitlement. Ret doesn't owe any of you an explanation, because this entire issue is wholly irrelevant to everyone but three or four people. I can understand that this is a funny story and that it produces some entertainment value, but how are any of you influenced by this? You don't know what girl in question and ret talked about in private. you don't know what ex boyfriend and girl in question talked about in private. you don't know what ret's perception of girl in question and ex boyfriend's relationship status was. ret is by no means obliged to tell you either - his status as a professional starcraft two gamer does not mean that every aspect of his private life is up to scrutiny. enjoy the show if you want, but with the exception of ex-boyfriend, none of you have the right to be judgemental. You can't really say that his private life should be staying private. "Famous" people (obviously I am using that term loosely as no SC2 player is really "famous" in north america) do not have the same expectation of privacy, at least in NA, as do the everyday person. There are no laws or anything regarding the matter. The fact is that when you have many people who are your fans, or look up to you, then your personal behavior is subject to more scrutiny simply because you have more people watching what you do. The same is true for any sports star or actor, anything "personal" they do that reflects badly upon them is quite often found out by paparazzi and sold. Gossip, drama, etc is a good business. Ret is by no means obliged to tell us anything but we absolutely have the right to be judgemental, especially if we are only given one side of a story that paints ret in a bad light that he refuses to refute. His image is a.) something people look up to, admire, or want to watch and b.) reflective of him, TeamLiquid, and all the according sponsors. That is what happens when you are someone with at least some importance. I am sorely disappointed that he didn't realize this and approach this situation much better, and I know that I am not alone. Something like this reflects badly upon his professional team and that is why it is subject to more scrutiny. If it didn't effect others then yes it wouldn't be an issue. But he is a representative of a brand and therefore yes I am influenced by this. I know that I am much less likely to want to watch his games for at least the short term simply because I wouldn't like the player. 1: Yes, famous people have been victims of paparazzis and lack of privacy for years. But isn't this pretty fucking horrible? I mean, in some instances you have dumb celebrities who want fame for the sake of being famous - and in that case they did give up their privacy. But for most celebrities, they are celebrities through being exceptionally good at something - and the fame and thus lack of privacy is something of a negative, unintended consequence. In fact, you might say that this sort of, gossipy behaviour, is in fact discouraging exceptionalism. And that, to me, is bad. 2: Just because something is good business, does not mean it should be encouraged. Weapons, prostitution and drugs make up three of the biggest industries in the world. While at least two out of these three might give you entertainment, I think we can largely agree that they contribute more bad than good. 3: The reason why you cannot be judgemental is that you are judging based on incomplete information. So far you have heard the story of one disgruntled part whom is obviously really biased, one part has not posted anything, and the third part has posted that not everything posted is true, but that he feels this is within his private sphere and that it is none of your concern. That should end it - it's none of your concern. Ret is a sc2 player, judge him based on that. I think there's a difference between europe and usa in this aspect though, you have far more people who are famous for being famous, and with the exception of england, the right to privacy is far more respected in europe - unless someone's private actions are actually in direct conflict with their public persona, then I don't see how it matters at all. Going forward however there are lessons to be learned. Forging e-sports into something that is actually respected though means that we really do need to avoid situations like this, for both the sport and the players. For the sport this just reflects badly. Yes it happens in established sports, but what kind of image do people get of e-sports when they hear of players acting like this? For Ret himself it even does have consequences. It's extremely unlikely but if he is in a close position with another player to get invited to a tournament couldn't the tournament sponsors decide to go with someone else to avoid a negative incident associated with the sponsors? LMAO once again the "For the future of e-sports we just can't let this happen!" nonsense. Get a clue. I think I can safely say that YOU ARE HURTING ESPORTS by laughing at that fine piece of post Fine. I apologize for my actions in the past. No more pro-gaming gossip threads or anything ever. For E-SPORTS!
Shh! Don't tell.
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where are the pics of the chick?
User was temp banned for this post.
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While some people might be getting on their high horses to make judgements on what happened, none of that is important.
Ret, (if you're even bothering to read this anymore) it definitely sucks to have your private life dragged out into public drama. People are gonna have ridiculous opinions from every angle. Eventually, all of this blows over.
However, don't miss the key message from all this. That message is a warning, that this girl is serious bad news. That's why people are talking about you bringing her over to the Netherlands, your fans don't want you to get stuck with the crazy. The signs are there, burrowed banelings getting called out for you, and hopefully you can micro yourself to survival (and maybe even get laid along the way).
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On June 09 2011 10:05 Hot_Bid wrote:
true, i had to fight off hordes of girls and buy a pair of aviators to stop being recognized
"unban me!!! feature my stream!!! change my icon!!" they cried, my security guys had to usher me out the back.
i love you...
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On June 09 2011 10:20 redFF wrote:Show nested quote +On June 09 2011 08:34 Vansetsu wrote:
Can you remember the first MLG's that included SC2? I sure do. I can remember watching Incontrol sitting on the floor with a pillow amongst a crowd of 100~ people watching TT1-play Jinro on something pretty close to a standard sized LAN table. Now we have have an event with two decent streams and live attendees reaching +2000 people.
Pretty sure Jinro wasn't at the first MLG that included SC2?
Can you remember the first MLG's that included SC2?
^Pretty sure I didn't say he was. (though I don't quite remember much from the first one other than HuK winning and some games from SeleCT maybe)
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$1,600?!?!
RET! C'mon man! you don't seem to understand the concept of groupies!
Anywho, I personally see nothing wrong with it. Think about this though: the guy has catz in his house, and his first response is break up with his girlfriend? I mean, I would've used her to get close to all the pros myself.
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Btw: gossip like this should be banned from forums. Cheap stories & laughter is not what TL is about imo. Yo ushould close this shit. Its just a guy that can't control his woman, a caveman that gets laid, clubs her on the head and drags her to his cave and a groupie slut. Close it and let's move on people, nothing to see here.
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On June 09 2011 10:42 Singu wrote:
Btw: gossip like this should be banned from forums. Cheap stories & laughter is not what TL is about imo. Yo ushould close this shit. Its just a guy that can't control his woman, a caveman that gets laid, clubs her on the head and drags her to his cave and a groupie slut. Close it and let's move on people, nothing to see here.
Have you never seen Rekrul's threads? TL has a good history of gossip threads much like this. Speaking of Rekrul since he dropped by the thread, you need to bring those threads back!
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On June 09 2011 08:09 Rekrul wrote:
Fine. I apologize for my actions in the past. No more pro-gaming gossip threads or anything ever. For E-SPORTS!
You stopped making them anyways, I liked those threads. 
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Rekrul is an exception on the rule. Is that shit about 'Hovz driving to a kids house to beat him up' up somewhere? Or that story about a Brazilian lan where a guy CHAIR rushed his opponent? 
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oh wow >.< I could have agreed that 14 pages on TL and 1000+ replies on reddit would be justified if Ret made out with Catz because that would have been epic but this is just sad.
Obviously there's something else we don't know, there's always 2 sides of a story.
If you think about what OP has been saying in his posts, the girl doesn't seem to be someone who goes to church on sundays and promised her mom to save her virginity untill age 40.
She's been cheating on him several times and not just at this MLG event.
A normal response to that would be "GTFO" but for some reason he chose to stay with her and with the knowledge that she is about as faithful a rabbit on speed, he brings her to this major event where the testosterone flows and manfluids boils and the manliest of manly nerds hang ut.
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On June 09 2011 10:55 Svartstol wrote:
with the knowledge that she is about as faithful a rabbit on speed, he brings her to this major event where the testosterone flows and manfluids boils and the manliest of manly nerds hang ut.
He said he didn't know until after all of this about the cheating, FWIW.
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On June 09 2011 10:10 frogmelter wrote:Show nested quote +On June 09 2011 09:53 Torte de Lini wrote:On June 09 2011 09:38 frogmelter wrote:On June 09 2011 08:03 BandonBanshee wrote:On June 09 2011 07:08 frogmelter wrote:On June 09 2011 07:02 ptbl wrote:
I think Ret, Catz, and the girl is in the wrong. I feel sorry for the dude who got cheated on. As Ret said, there are two sides to a story, but when you have 10+witnesses from MLG confirming the cheated dude's story... +1... I was a fan of ret since BW but this is a bit too much... On June 09 2011 07:00 Liquid`Ret wrote:
Heh so many lies. In my skype conversation with you you messaged me from her skype after you got into her house I had just found out that you posted on reddit. I didn't know I was doing something so terrible I thought you guys broke up on friday, which technically you did! but I have also heard about some fucked up shit you did. You seem to be enjoying the attention thought but this is really none of anyones business its only between the people involved so I don't want to go and explain myself here on a forum. If you've done nothing wrong then why not explain yourself? You owe it to your fans... He doesn't owe shit to anyone. I'm going to have to disagree
Without fans, a pro is nothing
Without fans, there is not a pro that would be where they are today
It could be argued that pros owe EVERYTHING to fansAt the end of the day, it basically comes down to the fans... Being good at the game = gets you more fans Winning championships = gets you more fans Why do teams sponsor players? So they preform well and promote their products to their fans and fans of whatever the player is participating in.
They are tons of people that are better than some low tier pros but just don't have a large fan base. Why is it that the popular players get teams/sponsorships even though they aren't as skilled as some other people? The fans...The "oh they don't owe you shit" attitude is the attitude that people take when they take fame for granted and forget that the fans got them where they are todayAm I saying that he has to answer every single little question we have? Of course not. It's fully within his rights to refuse to elucidate the situation. But he's putting his fans in a difficult position when one party presents some hard evidence [skype conversation+eye witnesses is pretty incriminating] and he answers with vague answers. I bolded everything that didn't make sense in your post. For starters, how you think pros need fans to be what they are is beyond comprehension. Edit: I edited leniency because some things do make sense in the end. skewed perception
Here's how it works from limited perspective:
Pros: motivated and determined player excels in several tournaments -> Team sees potentially good player and recruits him -> Player practices and engages in great battles, improving his skill level and thus win-rate + tournament placements and winnings -> Team and organization gets exposure and sponsors become interested.
Exposure is increased by interest of StarCraft II, of the battles, games and how the player plays, not how he is perceived in his personal life. It has an effect, but it is the equivalent of Weiner showing his crotch to a few mistresses. Some people care and see it as reflective to his career, others don't.
If you don't notice, a player doesn't get a fanbase usually until after his succession: prime example are people like Major who frowned upon until recently at the MLG (and even then).
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On June 09 2011 10:17 Chill wrote:Show nested quote +On June 09 2011 09:39 Rekrul wrote:On June 09 2011 09:38 frogmelter wrote:On June 09 2011 08:03 BandonBanshee wrote:On June 09 2011 07:08 frogmelter wrote:On June 09 2011 07:02 ptbl wrote:
I think Ret, Catz, and the girl is in the wrong. I feel sorry for the dude who got cheated on. As Ret said, there are two sides to a story, but when you have 10+witnesses from MLG confirming the cheated dude's story... +1... I was a fan of ret since BW but this is a bit too much... On June 09 2011 07:00 Liquid`Ret wrote:
Heh so many lies. In my skype conversation with you you messaged me from her skype after you got into her house I had just found out that you posted on reddit. I didn't know I was doing something so terrible I thought you guys broke up on friday, which technically you did! but I have also heard about some fucked up shit you did. You seem to be enjoying the attention thought but this is really none of anyones business its only between the people involved so I don't want to go and explain myself here on a forum. If you've done nothing wrong then why not explain yourself? You owe it to your fans... He doesn't owe shit to anyone. I'm going to have to disagree Without fans, a pro is nothing Without fans, there is not a pro that would be where they are today It could be argued that pros owe EVERYTHING to fans At the end of the day, it basically comes down to the fans... Being good at the game = gets you more fans Winning championships = gets you more fans Why do teams sponsor players? So they preform well and promote their products to their fans and fans of whatever the player is participating in. They are tons of people that are better than some low tier pros but just don't have a large fan base. Why is it that the popular players get teams/sponsorships even though they aren't as skilled as some other people? The fans... The "oh they don't owe you shit" attitude is the attitude that people take when they take fame for granted and forget that the fans got them where they are today Am I saying that he has to answer every single little question we have? Of course not. It's fully within his rights to refuse to elucidate the situation. But he's putting his fans in a difficult position when one party presents some hard evidence [skype conversation+eye witnesses is pretty incriminating] and he answers with vague answers. can someone close this thread now plz my head is going to explode Without a head, there is nothing to live for. Without threads, you wouldn't be ahead. Ha ha! -_-
Yeah, I'm not going to license your use of the korean gosu stare.
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On June 09 2011 09:59 Kennigit wrote:Show nested quote +On June 09 2011 09:14 AnalThermometer wrote:
I find it amusing that this is happening in SC2 now. These things have been happening for years. Theres just more girls now so people are becoming aware of it. Esports events in general are cess pools.
Really? Thats pretty awesome. Anyway i am really surprised this thread is still going, my guess is nothing good is going to come of it, only a lot of negativity. I feel bad for everyone personally involved sounds like a fairly bad situation. Will watch with baited breath to see what happens next though. Ret if I were you I would just ignore it and everyone should forget in like a week, really don't see any of this as your fault at all, feel bad you had to be involved in this controversy.
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On June 09 2011 11:07 Torte de Lini wrote:Show nested quote +On June 09 2011 10:10 frogmelter wrote:On June 09 2011 09:53 Torte de Lini wrote:On June 09 2011 09:38 frogmelter wrote:On June 09 2011 08:03 BandonBanshee wrote:On June 09 2011 07:08 frogmelter wrote:On June 09 2011 07:02 ptbl wrote:
I think Ret, Catz, and the girl is in the wrong. I feel sorry for the dude who got cheated on. As Ret said, there are two sides to a story, but when you have 10+witnesses from MLG confirming the cheated dude's story... +1... I was a fan of ret since BW but this is a bit too much... On June 09 2011 07:00 Liquid`Ret wrote:
Heh so many lies. In my skype conversation with you you messaged me from her skype after you got into her house I had just found out that you posted on reddit. I didn't know I was doing something so terrible I thought you guys broke up on friday, which technically you did! but I have also heard about some fucked up shit you did. You seem to be enjoying the attention thought but this is really none of anyones business its only between the people involved so I don't want to go and explain myself here on a forum. If you've done nothing wrong then why not explain yourself? You owe it to your fans... He doesn't owe shit to anyone. I'm going to have to disagree
Without fans, a pro is nothing
Without fans, there is not a pro that would be where they are today
It could be argued that pros owe EVERYTHING to fansAt the end of the day, it basically comes down to the fans... Being good at the game = gets you more fans Winning championships = gets you more fans Why do teams sponsor players? So they preform well and promote their products to their fans and fans of whatever the player is participating in.
They are tons of people that are better than some low tier pros but just don't have a large fan base. Why is it that the popular players get teams/sponsorships even though they aren't as skilled as some other people? The fans...The "oh they don't owe you shit" attitude is the attitude that people take when they take fame for granted and forget that the fans got them where they are todayAm I saying that he has to answer every single little question we have? Of course not. It's fully within his rights to refuse to elucidate the situation. But he's putting his fans in a difficult position when one party presents some hard evidence [skype conversation+eye witnesses is pretty incriminating] and he answers with vague answers. I bolded everything that didn't make sense in your post. For starters, how you think pros need fans to be what they are is beyond comprehension. Edit: I edited leniency because some things do make sense in the end. skewed perception Here's how it works from limited perspective: Pros: motivated and determined player excels in several tournaments -> Team sees potentially good player and recruits him -> Player practices and engages in great battles, improving his skill level and thus win-rate + tournament placements and winnings -> Team and organization gets exposure and sponsors become interested. Exposure is increased by interest of StarCraft II, of the battles, games and how the player plays, not how he is perceived in his personal life. It has an effect, but it is the equivalent of Weiner showing his crotch to a few mistresses. Some people care and see it as reflective to his career, others don't. If you don't notice, a player doesn't get a fanbase usually until after his succession: prime example are people like Major who frowned upon until recently at the MLG (and even then).
I don't remember saying that interest of SCII was based on people's personal lives anywhere. If you could point that out it would be helpful.
Also, public image of a celebrity /is/ in fact important. The pro is representing the sponsors to the fans, and by having a negative self image, they are showing the sponsor and their team in a bad light by association. People have been kicked out of teams because of "bad public image". Same reason why you don't want a famous criminal to promote your product.
From a purely financial standpoint, pros that get a lot more views are worth more than pros with less views. Especially in individual leagues. How do people choose what games to watch? They want to watch their favorite pros, not some random person that no one has heard of.
And before calling my view a "skewed perception", please point out where my fallacies are. Respect my opinions as much as I respect yours.[yes, what we are debating are opinions.] Thanks. Merely saying that "No you're wrong this is how it really works" when our views are not mutually exclusive does not mean much.
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On June 09 2011 11:46 frogmelter wrote:Show nested quote +On June 09 2011 11:07 Torte de Lini wrote:On June 09 2011 10:10 frogmelter wrote:On June 09 2011 09:53 Torte de Lini wrote:On June 09 2011 09:38 frogmelter wrote:On June 09 2011 08:03 BandonBanshee wrote:On June 09 2011 07:08 frogmelter wrote:On June 09 2011 07:02 ptbl wrote:
I think Ret, Catz, and the girl is in the wrong. I feel sorry for the dude who got cheated on. As Ret said, there are two sides to a story, but when you have 10+witnesses from MLG confirming the cheated dude's story... +1... I was a fan of ret since BW but this is a bit too much... On June 09 2011 07:00 Liquid`Ret wrote:
Heh so many lies. In my skype conversation with you you messaged me from her skype after you got into her house I had just found out that you posted on reddit. I didn't know I was doing something so terrible I thought you guys broke up on friday, which technically you did! but I have also heard about some fucked up shit you did. You seem to be enjoying the attention thought but this is really none of anyones business its only between the people involved so I don't want to go and explain myself here on a forum. If you've done nothing wrong then why not explain yourself? You owe it to your fans... He doesn't owe shit to anyone. I'm going to have to disagree
Without fans, a pro is nothing
Without fans, there is not a pro that would be where they are today
It could be argued that pros owe EVERYTHING to fansAt the end of the day, it basically comes down to the fans... Being good at the game = gets you more fans Winning championships = gets you more fans Why do teams sponsor players? So they preform well and promote their products to their fans and fans of whatever the player is participating in.
They are tons of people that are better than some low tier pros but just don't have a large fan base. Why is it that the popular players get teams/sponsorships even though they aren't as skilled as some other people? The fans...The "oh they don't owe you shit" attitude is the attitude that people take when they take fame for granted and forget that the fans got them where they are todayAm I saying that he has to answer every single little question we have? Of course not. It's fully within his rights to refuse to elucidate the situation. But he's putting his fans in a difficult position when one party presents some hard evidence [skype conversation+eye witnesses is pretty incriminating] and he answers with vague answers. I bolded everything that didn't make sense in your post. For starters, how you think pros need fans to be what they are is beyond comprehension. Edit: I edited leniency because some things do make sense in the end. skewed perception Here's how it works from limited perspective: Pros: motivated and determined player excels in several tournaments -> Team sees potentially good player and recruits him -> Player practices and engages in great battles, improving his skill level and thus win-rate + tournament placements and winnings -> Team and organization gets exposure and sponsors become interested. Exposure is increased by interest of StarCraft II, of the battles, games and how the player plays, not how he is perceived in his personal life. It has an effect, but it is the equivalent of Weiner showing his crotch to a few mistresses. Some people care and see it as reflective to his career, others don't. If you don't notice, a player doesn't get a fanbase usually until after his succession: prime example are people like Major who frowned upon until recently at the MLG (and even then). I don't remember saying that interest of SCII was based on people's personal lives anywhere. If you could point that out it would be helpful. Also, public image of a celebrity /is/ in fact important. The pro is representing the sponsors to the fans, and by having a negative self image, they are showing the sponsor and their team in a bad light by association. People have been kicked out of teams because of "bad public image". Same reason why you don't want a famous criminal to promote your product. From a purely financial standpoint, pros that get a lot more views are worth more than pros with less views. Especially in individual leagues. How do people choose what games to watch? They want to watch their favorite pros, not some random person that no one has heard of. And before calling my view a "skewed perception", please point out where my fallacies are. Respect my opinions as much as I respect yours.[yes, what we are debating are opinions.] Thanks. Merely saying that "No you're wrong this is how it really works" when our views are not mutually exclusive does not mean much.
This is what the general discussion is going on about. If you need underlining, I don't think I can help you, it's all over your reply(ies) to me.
I'm sure idra is really losing sponsors over his bad manners, poor sportsmanship conduct and overall public rudeness to highly-regarded players. Who's been kicked out of teams because of bad public image in StarCraft II?
To end, you link (in)famous criminal with poor public image of a celebrity.
I already pointed out all your fallacies in bold and then summed its skewed perception by how I feel it truly goes. I even bolded it and let the ball roll with "For starters, how you think pros need fans to be what they are is beyond comprehension."
This is my last reply for you I'm afraid. I don't see this discussion going any further because you seem to overlook several aspects and emphasize parts of people with any decent examples or follow-ups.
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On June 09 2011 10:17 Chill wrote:Show nested quote +On June 09 2011 09:39 Rekrul wrote:On June 09 2011 09:38 frogmelter wrote:On June 09 2011 08:03 BandonBanshee wrote:On June 09 2011 07:08 frogmelter wrote:On June 09 2011 07:02 ptbl wrote:
I think Ret, Catz, and the girl is in the wrong. I feel sorry for the dude who got cheated on. As Ret said, there are two sides to a story, but when you have 10+witnesses from MLG confirming the cheated dude's story... +1... I was a fan of ret since BW but this is a bit too much... On June 09 2011 07:00 Liquid`Ret wrote:
Heh so many lies. In my skype conversation with you you messaged me from her skype after you got into her house I had just found out that you posted on reddit. I didn't know I was doing something so terrible I thought you guys broke up on friday, which technically you did! but I have also heard about some fucked up shit you did. You seem to be enjoying the attention thought but this is really none of anyones business its only between the people involved so I don't want to go and explain myself here on a forum. If you've done nothing wrong then why not explain yourself? You owe it to your fans... He doesn't owe shit to anyone. I'm going to have to disagree Without fans, a pro is nothing Without fans, there is not a pro that would be where they are today It could be argued that pros owe EVERYTHING to fans At the end of the day, it basically comes down to the fans... Being good at the game = gets you more fans Winning championships = gets you more fans Why do teams sponsor players? So they preform well and promote their products to their fans and fans of whatever the player is participating in. They are tons of people that are better than some low tier pros but just don't have a large fan base. Why is it that the popular players get teams/sponsorships even though they aren't as skilled as some other people? The fans... The "oh they don't owe you shit" attitude is the attitude that people take when they take fame for granted and forget that the fans got them where they are today Am I saying that he has to answer every single little question we have? Of course not. It's fully within his rights to refuse to elucidate the situation. But he's putting his fans in a difficult position when one party presents some hard evidence [skype conversation+eye witnesses is pretty incriminating] and he answers with vague answers. can someone close this thread now plz my head is going to explode Without a head, there is nothing to live for. Without threads, you wouldn't be ahead. Ha ha! -_-
Ohh very deep poetic i like lol
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EPT
