On June 09 2011 07:17 Liquid`Drone wrote: Oh come on guys, some of you must have been blinded by years of media bs giving you a feeling of fucking entitlement. Ret doesn't owe any of you an explanation, because this entire issue is wholly irrelevant to everyone but three or four people. I can understand that this is a funny story and that it produces some entertainment value, but how are any of you influenced by this? You don't know what girl in question and ret talked about in private. you don't know what ex boyfriend and girl in question talked about in private. you don't know what ret's perception of girl in question and ex boyfriend's relationship status was. ret is by no means obliged to tell you either - his status as a professional starcraft two gamer does not mean that every aspect of his private life is up to scrutiny. enjoy the show if you want, but with the exception of ex-boyfriend, none of you have the right to be judgemental.
You can't really say that his private life should be staying private. "Famous" people (obviously I am using that term loosely as no SC2 player is really "famous" in north america) do not have the same expectation of privacy, at least in NA, as do the everyday person. There are no laws or anything regarding the matter.
The fact is that when you have many people who are your fans, or look up to you, then your personal behavior is subject to more scrutiny simply because you have more people watching what you do. The same is true for any sports star or actor, anything "personal" they do that reflects badly upon them is quite often found out by paparazzi and sold. Gossip, drama, etc is a good business.
Ret is by no means obliged to tell us anything but we absolutely have the right to be judgemental, especially if we are only given one side of a story that paints ret in a bad light that he refuses to refute. His image is a.) something people look up to, admire, or want to watch and b.) reflective of him, TeamLiquid, and all the according sponsors. That is what happens when you are someone with at least some importance. I am sorely disappointed that he didn't realize this and approach this situation much better, and I know that I am not alone. Something like this reflects badly upon his professional team and that is why it is subject to more scrutiny. If it didn't effect others then yes it wouldn't be an issue. But he is a representative of a brand and therefore yes I am influenced by this. I know that I am much less likely to want to watch his games for at least the short term simply because I wouldn't like the player.
1: Yes, famous people have been victims of paparazzis and lack of privacy for years. But isn't this pretty fucking horrible? I mean, in some instances you have dumb celebrities who want fame for the sake of being famous - and in that case they did give up their privacy. But for most celebrities, they are celebrities through being exceptionally good at something - and the fame and thus lack of privacy is something of a negative, unintended consequence. In fact, you might say that this sort of, gossipy behaviour, is in fact discouraging exceptionalism. And that, to me, is bad.
2: Just because something is good business, does not mean it should be encouraged. Weapons, prostitution and drugs make up three of the biggest industries in the world. While at least two out of these three might give you entertainment, I think we can largely agree that they contribute more bad than good.
3: The reason why you cannot be judgemental is that you are judging based on incomplete information. So far you have heard the story of one disgruntled part whom is obviously really biased, one part has not posted anything, and the third part has posted that not everything posted is true, but that he feels this is within his private sphere and that it is none of your concern. That should end it - it's none of your concern. Ret is a sc2 player, judge him based on that.
I think there's a difference between europe and usa in this aspect though, you have far more people who are famous for being famous, and with the exception of england, the right to privacy is far more respected in europe - unless someone's private actions are actually in direct conflict with their public persona, then I don't see how it matters at all.
Going forward however there are lessons to be learned. Forging e-sports into something that is actually respected though means that we really do need to avoid situations like this, for both the sport and the players. For the sport this just reflects badly. Yes it happens in established sports, but what kind of image do people get of e-sports when they hear of players acting like this? For Ret himself it even does have consequences. It's extremely unlikely but if he is in a close position with another player to get invited to a tournament couldn't the tournament sponsors decide to go with someone else to avoid a negative incident associated with the sponsors?
LMAO once again the "For the future of e-sports we just can't let this happen!" nonsense. Get a clue.
I think I can safely say that YOU ARE HURTING ESPORTS by laughing at that fine piece of post
what i don't understand is why so many people is concerned about "giving a good image". if something needs to be that polite and correct to reach the big audience, then maybe it's the big audiene who is being too hypocritical
i understand punk concerts (for example) not being acceptable for the big audience, but some lolsy affair between pros and groupies... i think the drama gives vitality and attractive to the scene, but maybe that's my wicked perception of things. anyways, i don't like u all morals paladins, imo u just contribute to make esports more boring.
New teamliquid has a fascination with keeping everything as PC as possible, someone says the word rape HURTING ESPORTS, someone flips a guy off HURTING ESPORTS, someone says "sup bitches" HURTING ESPORTS, someone hooks up with some random slut HURTING ESPORTS.
Someone posts about hurting esports HURTING ESPORTS.
Ret, I love you man, and I really could care less about all the drama bullshit, but you have to see the potential problem in spending money to bring a girl all the way to Europe when you've only known her for less than a week.
On June 09 2011 07:17 Liquid`Drone wrote: Oh come on guys, some of you must have been blinded by years of media bs giving you a feeling of fucking entitlement. Ret doesn't owe any of you an explanation, because this entire issue is wholly irrelevant to everyone but three or four people. I can understand that this is a funny story and that it produces some entertainment value, but how are any of you influenced by this? You don't know what girl in question and ret talked about in private. you don't know what ex boyfriend and girl in question talked about in private. you don't know what ret's perception of girl in question and ex boyfriend's relationship status was. ret is by no means obliged to tell you either - his status as a professional starcraft two gamer does not mean that every aspect of his private life is up to scrutiny. enjoy the show if you want, but with the exception of ex-boyfriend, none of you have the right to be judgemental.
I agree for the most part. It's their private life, but it's kind of naive to think publicly talking about in the transparency of a forum isn't going to cause some people to throw in their opinions.
Personally I could care less about the whole thing, and I wouldn't really bother taking the time to type something for or against something that happened that has nothing to do with me personally.
There are however two things that stick out to me:
1. I like the fact that the mods aren't trying to cover the e-tracks here. Maybe as the sport becomes more popular people will think more about what they do in the spotlight or at a major event.
2. Speaking of major event, the part that DOES bother me about this, was that it was at MLG. I've talked to players that have made decent showing at these events, and they always tell me how it's a lot of fun and they generally drink a lot and have a good time. Well, that's fine I guess AFTER the event. In context to this story, it seems like a lot of this happened during the event.
Seriously, how can we talk about "pro-houses" and training to "cacth up with the koreans" when we can't keep it in our pants and focus seriously for just 3 fucking days? That just makes me sad. Really Sad.
Well w/e though.... on the lighter side of things, sounds like you found a real winner there Ret :/
Someone sounds a little jealous.
User was warned for this post
No, just disappointed really. So many people in the community are putting out all kinds of effort to grow the scene into a sport over here, and all too often we have to look at the players here at home and go "where's the beef"?
Can you remember the first MLG's that included SC2? I sure do. I can remember watching Incontrol sitting on the floor with a pillow amongst a crowd of 100~ people watching TT1-play Jinro on something pretty close to a standard sized LAN table. Now we have have an event with two decent streams and live attendees reaching +2000 people.
The interest has grown tremendously, the money seems to be there, but no one (not the majority at least) seems to want to want to commit to the "pro"fessional part about being or becoming a "pro"gamer. Reading a story like this just throws a little bit of salt in the wound is all (for the points I mentioned, not all this relationship/character judgement drama shit).
Seriously though. Chick realized she can fuck around to get free trips and stuff. Not uncommon. In the end, she's pretty pathetic so just laugh in her face and tell her to gtfo if she keeps bugging you. You sound young, move on.
If it was a serious relationship, I'm with Rekrul that someone would need to get hurt just out of principle, but you missed your chance (and it didn't sound really serious).
Either way, no one really cares and it will be forgotten soon. It's a dick move to go after someone else's girl but in this case she went after them and I'll give ret the benefit of the doubt that he didn't know she had a boyfriend.
P.S : I'm still finding it hilarious and disturbing that SC2 players have groupies. Even someone like CatZ rofl...
Obviously with the fact that ESports is growing is a pretty good idea that not much of the stuff thet say hurts esporsts is hurting esports. All the so called "Bad" words i think define this as a different way of think that as the younger people grow up will just be the norm. If you think about the words a decade a go that stood for "Bad" words are more or less just normal to say now. As for whats happening with ret or catz really i dont think either one will be affected by this once people leave alone and get bored with it which is tragic that they have to deal with the scrunity of people trying to dwell in there personal lives. Ret and catz are big boys now i am pretty sure they can take care of them selves if they feel need to pay for some ones flight or not or do what ever they can take care of themselves and if not pretty sure they have their own parents and friends that can help them with any advice they need. they dont need hundreds of people telling them what to do or how to do it or how their opinion is
I think Ret should tell us everything because I'm personally curious and I don't really care about his privacy. ... What? If we're being selfish here, might as well be transparent about it.
This thread has gone beyond hurting esports... LiquidRet you have personally broken e-sports.
no, really... this isn't that interesting. Jealous ex-bf, kinda slutty girl... the best thing to come out of the thread so far is this lil gem of a quote:
Coolest thing is, Thread title is still valid no matter which topic hehe...
No one would blink an eye if a girl broke up with her bf for a rockstar who decided to fly her around with him for a while. Don't you people see that your hurting e sports by reacting like this? If we cant even treat our top players like rock stars how will the mainstream media ever take us seriously?? Shame on all of you.
I find it amusing that this is happening in SC2 now. These kinds of antics end up having professional consequences for players sooner or later, and combined with the fact that pro SC2 players are not good at handling female attention has the brewing of a delicious concotion. It's also entertaining to read the desperate damage control posts which end up looking embarassing (Rekrul). Ret is free to do what he wants, but to brush it off as a simple groupie fling when you're taking the groupie half way across the world with you is lollerific.
On June 09 2011 09:09 Rinny wrote: No one would blink an eye if a girl broke up with her bf for a rockstar who decided to fly her around with him for a while. Don't you people see that your hurting e sports by reacting like this? If we cant even treat our top players like rock stars how will the mainstream media ever take us seriously?? Shame on all of you.
Hope that was extreme sarcasm. :D
How are groupie whores and naive pro-gamers what we want for our community? Ret trying to play it down so much is actually making it a bit worse.
Or hey maybe i'm totally wrong and they are madly in love, but I really doubt it.
On June 09 2011 09:14 AnalThermometer wrote: Ret is free to do what he wants, but to brush it off as a simple groupie fling when you're taking the groupie half way across the world with you is lollerific.
On June 09 2011 09:09 Rinny wrote: No one would blink an eye if a girl broke up with her bf for a rockstar who decided to fly her around with him for a while. Don't you people see that your hurting e sports by reacting like this? If we cant even treat our top players like rock stars how will the mainstream media ever take us seriously?? Shame on all of you.
for truth. all of these events are helping esports get mainstream, they're just helping us get up to speed with the rest of the world! Else, we'll forever remain a niche market. drugs sex bitches ! (and sex with bitches, even)
On June 09 2011 09:14 AnalThermometer wrote: I find it amusing that this is happening in SC2 now. These kinds of antics end up having professional consequences for players sooner or later, and combined with the fact that pro SC2 players are not good at handling female attention has the brewing of a delicious concotion. It's also entertaining to read the desperate damage control posts which end up looking embarassing (Rekrul). Ret is free to do what he wants, but to brush it off as a simple groupie fling when you're taking the groupie half way across the world with you is lollerific.
Eventhough this was an entertaining read I really don't get what all the drama is about. If everything OP said is true then OP should be glad he's rid of a girl like this (what did he really expect after trying to pimp her out on stream?) and as for Ret, well what he does is his own damn business. Eventhough I'd think twice if I was in his shoes.
On June 09 2011 09:32 XenoKai wrote: Can someone PLEASE make a scumbag steve meme with rets picture and post here and on reddit? it would be an instant classic
Memes are not allowed here. It'd be off-putting and a terrible joke, do it yourself.
On June 09 2011 09:32 XenoKai wrote: Can someone PLEASE make a scumbag steve meme with rets picture and post here and on reddit? it would be an instant classic
Memes are not allowed here. It'd be off-putting and a terrible joke, do it yourself.
?? i dont remember it saying anything in the OP about not allowing memes and last time i checked you are not a fucking mod BROSEF
On June 09 2011 07:02 ptbl wrote: I think Ret, Catz, and the girl is in the wrong. I feel sorry for the dude who got cheated on. As Ret said, there are two sides to a story, but when you have 10+witnesses from MLG confirming the cheated dude's story...
+1...
I was a fan of ret since BW but this is a bit too much...
On June 09 2011 07:00 Liquid`Ret wrote: Heh so many lies. In my skype conversation with you you messaged me from her skype after you got into her house I had just found out that you posted on reddit. I didn't know I was doing something so terrible I thought you guys broke up on friday, which technically you did! but I have also heard about some fucked up shit you did. You seem to be enjoying the attention thought but this is really none of anyones business its only between the people involved so I don't want to go and explain myself here on a forum.
If you've done nothing wrong then why not explain yourself? You owe it to your fans...
He doesn't owe shit to anyone.
I'm going to have to disagree
Without fans, a pro is nothing
Without fans, there is not a pro that would be where they are today
It could be argued that pros owe EVERYTHING to fans
At the end of the day, it basically comes down to the fans...
Being good at the game = gets you more fans Winning championships = gets you more fans
Why do teams sponsor players? So they preform well and promote their products to their fans and fans of whatever the player is participating in.
They are tons of people that are better than some low tier pros but just don't have a large fan base. Why is it that the popular players get teams/sponsorships even though they aren't as skilled as some other people? The fans...
The "oh they don't owe you shit" attitude is the attitude that people take when they take fame for granted and forget that the fans got them where they are today
Am I saying that he has to answer every single little question we have? Of course not. It's fully within his rights to refuse to elucidate the situation. But he's putting his fans in a difficult position when one party presents some hard evidence [skype conversation+eye witnesses is pretty incriminating] and he answers with vague answers.
EPT
