This is a video interview I did with CatZ at the MLG Columbus after party. We talked about the situation with CatZ being late for his main stage games with StarTale July.
yeah I believe a little more communication maybe between player and mlg would be better. Idk if they tried to contact root or catz but if they didnt then yes it was ridiculous, but if they tried to contact someone to find out where he was and got no answers then the DQ is justified. And i agree they need to have the same rules for everyone but id say DQ should be the last option and should be something thats not handed out lightly
I think the rules should be followed to a 'T', because it's the only way to be totally fair. That means that CatZ should have been DQ'ed if he broke the rules, even by a small amount. So as he said in the interview, everyone else who broke the rules should be DQ'ed as well. There's no point in having rules if they're only going to be followed half the time.
I'm a huge fan of ROOT and I feel really really bad for Catz, I think his response is pretty appropriate and I understand his frustration.
I mean, I highly doubt MLG would disqualify July or any of the Korean players, nor would they disqualify some of the higher finishing players but that seems wrong to me, if the examples that Catz gave are accurate then I feel he really got fucked over. It shouldn't matter if you got 1st at a previous MLG, are a GSL winner or are a diamond leaguer who is at his first MLG, the rules should apply equally to everyone or show the same leniency to everyone. If they couldn't wait 14 minutes for Catz, they shouldn't wait for anyone.
On June 08 2011 12:43 TadH wrote: Late is late, they have thousands of games to deal with, deal with it. They can't make the right decision every time. Shitty for you.
Great attitude.
Obviously he should have tried to be on time, but it was a poor decision by MLG regardless considering the amount of exceptions they made for other players.
It would definitely have to be equal disqualification rules for everyone, so in this case, since others weren't disqualified, they shouldn't have DQ'ed Catz. Also, players shouldn't be able to reschedule matches; that just seems like it would screw stuff up even more (even if it is earlier, like what if July's opponent didn't show and wasn't notified of the change in time; it's completely unfair).
They should just put up a schedule of the games of the upcoming players or something, so that players will just be able to like click a link and get online to see what time they need to show up, cause it seems like MLG wasn't clear in what times they want the players to be at a specific spot.
On June 08 2011 12:43 TadH wrote: Late is late, they have thousands of games to deal with, deal with it. They can't make the right decision every time. Shitty for you.
If late is late then why is it not applied the same for everyone? If you listened to the video you would have heard a bunch of people got exceptions. I would be bitter as well.
Oh man, I didn't realize that it was going to be a main stage series as well. Really rubs it in. At most I was disappointed as a fan to not have the replays to watch.
I guess I really don't know what the think since on the one hand, MLG is so big, they can't build up a reputation of letting people slide by the rules and being lax on their regulations. However, because there are so many people and the conference is such is a big and busy place, it would be nice to have some sort of leeway given, within reason.
I guess I really don't know though, it's a situation that is basically lose-lose.
On June 08 2011 12:43 TadH wrote: Late is late, they have thousands of games to deal with, deal with it. They can't make the right decision every time. Shitty for you.
Or maybe MLG needs to make sure the rules are enforced for everyone?
All the games Catz mentioned are matches toward the end of the first night. It is possible that the players were late because they/their opponent were still in another match/waiting for a match to end to play each other. Catz vs July I believe was one of the first matches on Saturday and it was also featured on the main stage. So no one had previous matches to finish or anything like that. Even if none of that was the case, though it's a double standard, having the first match on the main stage of a new day of games start late could have angered the viewers. (The long periods of black screens were annoying ) I'm sure if his game was held later on in the day they probably wouldn't of DQ'd him. I'd say it was bad luck for him and hopefully he brought this to the attention of the MLG staff so they could fix this problem for the next MLG to make it even better.
I would have loved to see his crazy builds vs July
Man, CatZ looks so down in that. I feel for him. That was the opportunity of a lifetime without a doubt.
That said, he has a great attitude. That's one of the reasons he's my favorite SC2 player. Awesome guy, awesome player, awesome everything. We would have won anyways, CatZ. ROOT is the best team. The chemistry they have is awesome. They look like brothers in that video.
Can't wait for you to start streaming again, CatZ. Chin up.
mlg are a bunch of fucking mugs. great tournament, but they don't dare do this to any of the korean pros but they do this to catz and other people? ridiculous.
Wasn't it the first game of the day? Cant be late for that without a good reason. If someone is late later in the day it could be because the series went longer than they wanted or they were on a break after the match and were hard to find.
Given the information at hand, I beleive that everyone should be held the the same standard. No matter what. MLG is gaining so much hype for being one the biggest and baddest streaming tournments on the internet, but this is an issue that they should not overlook. Not just for CatZ but for future tournaments. As a growing company they should always be looking for ways to improve and receiving feed back, positive or negative, this is the best way to reach new goals. Personally again, I beleive they should take what CatZ is saying and look at professional ways to fix these occuring issues. Communication is key in life no matter what! This shows a lack of management skills, the tournament moderators should be able to set a time hack after each match and then make sure indefinitely that the new competitors receive it. After that its all on the competitors to show up. I do hope to watch MLG grow into bigger and better things, but alas I feel as if they are still in the crawling phase.
Good job blowing up CatZ saying that he deserves it for being late.
You guys realize that MLG Officials were telling them that their games wouldn't start til 11, and then they started matches at 10 right? Pokebunny was the victim of this as well..
Enforce the rules equally to EVERYONE otherwise what's the point in having them if they don't apply to everyone? It's a damn shame. Keep your head up CatZ!
I heard a rumor (truth?) that one competitor was actually stuck in an elevator (not just in an elevator, but actually stuck in one, like fire department rescue type of stuck) at the time of his match and got disqualified. Talk about bad luck.
Like most people have pointed out, the issue isn't whether or not people should get penalty for being late. Rules are to be followed, noone disagrees with that. However, knowing other players get away with bending the rules to their favor just because they are more high profile, leaves me with a bad taste in my mouth.
It was very nice to hear CatZ statement, thanks for posting this, Joshy. You never fail to deliver amazing 'behind the scene' videoes
Gotta say, the more I see of CatZ, the more I love his attitude and how he approaches the scene/community. Hope he never changes!
Really awesome to see Catz with a really calm, and reasonable/respectful opinion on the issue. Also agree with MLGs decision (and so does Catz), and definitely agree that every player should be held accountable for following the rules. Also seemed like there was error in communication between the players and MLG at times since this wasn't the only DQ situation.
When you are an up and comer, it's on you to work harder than the big names to get there on time, especially when it's a big opportunity like main-stage vs July. When you get to July's level, then you get to be late every once in a while. Not fair but that's how the world works. You can either complain about how unfair the world is, or suck it up and start doing what you need to do so one day you get to be the July and not the Catz in the situation.
That said, I still feel bad for the guy. I hope he keeps going and we see Catz on the main-stage soon.
On June 08 2011 13:47 JoshSuth wrote: I heard a rumor (truth?) that one competitor was actually stuck in an elevator (not just in an elevator, but actually stuck in one, like fire department rescue type of stuck) at the time of his match and got disqualified. Talk about bad luck.
I feel like the whole debacle around Pokebunny if its correct is way worse. Where a MLG official told him a wrong time, and he shows up at that time to be informed that he has been DQd for being late, must be fun being a 15y old up and comer and get fucker over by insanely incompetent crew of MLG.
MLG needs to enforce the rule of being late and apply it to EVERYONE. In my opinion it doesn't matter if your in platinum league or if your JulyZerg, if your not on time for your match within the set period you're disqualified. If the Community goes into a rage just say that you need to draw the line and giving certain players wiggle room is not acceptable. It's not like July would be late for his GSL match, treat it as the same thing. Thats my opinion anyways, please take it as such.
Well I agree with most you say catz but u gotta realize there is bias ism especially to people who dont speak great english, (korean players) who also had to come over very jet lagged. In general altho people dont like to admit players are going to be treated differently, if a random open bracket player from silver league is 15 minutes late or MC is 15 minutes late; for some reason i see them being more lenient for MC (there are a lot of names i could put in MC's place.)
But i agree in a perfect world every1 is treated equally and you do have a right to be mad since u were the one who was fucked this time.
It is a little interesting though that I would hae considered catz one of those high profile people that himself would have recieved special treatment. if you think about it, te mlg staff don't necessarily know big names in the sc2 world so it's not really like they're rgetting preferential treatment from it.
On June 08 2011 16:47 Emporio wrote: It is a little interesting though that I would hae considered catz one of those high profile people that himself would have recieved special treatment. if you think about it, te mlg staff don't necessarily know big names in the sc2 world so it's not really like they're rgetting preferential treatment from it.
Sadly part of the scene and community doesn't recognize CatZ and ROOT as high profile. It seems that this same part seem to respect players who were well known in broodwar way more. And if you were unknown in broodwar you have to perform at least twice as good in SC2 than the broodward heroes to be 'accepted'. Which probably is quite standard, but still doesn't make it 'fair'.
MLG honestly need to have a zero tolerance policy on lateness. They have to run hundreds of games to a schedule, so I really have sympathy with them for this rule. On the other hand, they need to make the schedule reasonable so that players and staff can have a decent nights sleep. Finishing at 3am and then starting at 10am is inhumane.
@ video: You guys look like a lovely crowd to hang around with.
@ the guy with the slutty girlfiend attitude: I personally think breaking up wasn't the right choice. I mean you should have taken her first infront of the people concerned. Then being sure she was being guilty i would have severly beaten them up. And finally dump her.
To be honest breaking up with her was the easiest and the most coward thing to do. I would have gone mental on those online fatties.
On June 08 2011 21:20 CaM27 wrote: @ video: You guys look like a lovely crowd to hang around with.
@ the guy with the slutty girlfiend attitude: I personally think breaking up wasn't the right choice. I mean you should have taken her first infront of the people concerned. Then being sure she was being guilty I would have severly beating them up. Finally dumping her.
To be honest breaking up with her was the easiest and the most coward thing to do. I would have gone mental on those online fatties.
I agree 100% with the first statement. What kind of guy "makes out" with someone else girlfriend? A douchebag usually. (Assuming he knew about it)
The second part, not so much. I would have broken up with her asap also, that's just unacceptable.
Personally I would have confronted her in front of whoever she made out with, made a scene, punched the guy/start a fight and kicked her to the curb.
On topic: Actually, my first statement was harsh, if so many others had exceptions it would make sense to accommodate catz. And that does suck ass, but the only way to make sure it doesn't happen to you is don't be late int he first place.
On June 08 2011 23:19 Ganjamaster wrote: I am quite fond of CatZ and his stream, apparently he is a pretty chill dude who keeps it real.
That being said, I do not know how this guy who posted on reddit didnt start some shit with him when he started being cheeky around his girlfriend.
If that shit about ret is true than thats even worse rofl.
BTW if Ret really FLEW a random girl over to the netherlands at the prospect of potential sex, somebody should really remind him that he lives in AMSTERDAM where prostitution is LEGAL. Maybe he will save some money.... last time I checked shit went for 50 euros or something like that.
On June 08 2011 23:29 TadH wrote: Josh hit it too, hahah don't lie.
Nah. I witnessed some of the stuff talked about in the Reddit thread but didn't think anything of it, because hey, good for them. Didn't know she had a bf.
Also, feel bad for Ret for booking a flight for her. Reeeeally doesn't seem like she's worth a $1,600 investment.
On June 08 2011 23:29 TadH wrote: Josh hit it too, hahah don't lie.
Nah. I witnessed some of the stuff talked about in the Reddit thread but didn't think anything of it, because hey, good for them. Didn't know she had a bf.
Also, feel bad for Ret for booking a flight for her. Reeeeally doesn't seem like she's worth a $1,600 investment.
On June 08 2011 23:29 TadH wrote: Josh hit it too, hahah don't lie.
Nah. I witnessed some of the stuff talked about in the Reddit thread but didn't think anything of it, because hey, good for them. Didn't know she had a bf.
Also, feel bad for Ret for booking a flight for her. Reeeeally doesn't seem like she's worth a $1,600 investment.
Do you have pics or video of her? I want to see!
I'm digging around reddit (which is a painful process, I really hate big threads on reddit)
On June 08 2011 23:29 TadH wrote: Josh hit it too, hahah don't lie.
Nah. I witnessed some of the stuff talked about in the Reddit thread but didn't think anything of it, because hey, good for them. Didn't know she had a bf.
Also, feel bad for Ret for booking a flight for her. Reeeeally doesn't seem like she's worth a $1,600 investment.
Do you have pics or video of her? I want to see!
I'm digging around reddit (which is a painful process, I really hate big threads on reddit)
LMAO and another chapter in TL begins with this lmao. I remember seeing this chick all the time in Columbus and didnt think much of it thought it was Catz chick didnt know the whole back story till i read that. And as for the ret part hey man hes a pimp let the man do him . As for this chick ......LMAo idk what to say good job catz,and ret?? lol
Edit: I also love how this community can dig up pics in a heart beat lol
To whoever wrote that thread, give your girlfriend a break. I mean who can resist the raw sex appeal and the X-factor these two celebrities hold? They are so famous she couldn't see what they really are, normal guys, as opposed to the superstars the media portray them as.
I can understand the reaction of Catz and that he feels misstreated right after the event is over, but there ultimately is none else than himself to blame (not neccessarily saying he disputes that). To be outraged that others were treated differently shouldn't really be an issue. As Huk said, its only natural to give the Koreans, who don't speak the language, a bit of leeway.
Who cares if some people got away with it and you didn't? It is a rule, simply follow it. By your own examples of people getting away with it, you can safely assume that if you are late, there is a chance you get away with it. The only responsibility MLG has is to enforce that rule when they see fit, so that people generally will be more aware of it. All you have to do is to show the fuck up, and none will misstreat you. It is like (pulling an example out of my ass....) someone driving to fast, get caught, and then pointing at another guy saying "but he got away with it". Be responsible and don't give a shit if others get away with being irresponsible.
PS: I assume it was entirely Catz's own fault for being late. If not this isn't really relevant, such as with the poor fellow who got stuck in an elevator.
On June 08 2011 23:57 JoshSuth wrote: Turns out the girl in question's roommate is the one who posted that high-quality pic with Ret. =P She was the one holding the "GL" in GL HF. =P
Best friend sold her out with the pics lol wonder if she has a TL account she better not see this
I for one like to think that CatZ is completely innocent. I can just imagine all those movies where our respectable man avoids like Joseph the seductive woman who comes on strongly.
"No no, I can't do that. I have a game to play tomorrow, and I can't be late!"
She proceeds to jump on him, pull out her handcuffs, and our hero CatZ is helpless. Leave him alone you whore!
Well, I like to think at least he didn't know she had a boyfriend.
tbh i think u made the right choice, i'd rather get some from a girl than take it up the butt from julyzerg
LOL WTF? Wow shit is crazy these days.
It's only a matter of time till they start throwing themselves at casters, WHAT U GONNA DO CHILL?
Chill already #2 homie of Gordon Haywood. You are right, it s only time till the women start throwing themselves on him.
On June 09 2011 00:58 Dalguno wrote: I for one like to think that CatZ is completely innocent. I can just imagine all those movies where our respectable man avoids like Joseph the seductive woman who comes on strongly.
"No no, I can't do that. I have a game to play tomorrow, and I can't be late!"
She proceeds to jump on him, pull out her handcuffs, and our hero CatZ is helpless. Leave him alone you whore!
Well, I like to think at least he didn't know she had a boyfriend.
There was a quote somewhere on reddit allegedly of catz asking when she was going to dump her bf.
Yeesh Catz. It's completely your fault that you're late for a match, but you complain about inconsistent application of the rules? Some of the people you mentioned might have contacted MLG staff and received an extension. Also, on the first day, MLG might not have been on such a tight schedule. Instead of complaining next MLG, why don't you just make sure you come on time?
And the match wouldn't have been good for your career. July would almost certainly have easily beaten you and everyone would have posted "guess we know why Catz didn't want Koreans at MLG."
On June 09 2011 01:54 -_- wrote: Yeesh Catz. It's completely your fault that you're late for a match, but you complain about inconsistent application of the rules? Some of the people you mentioned might have contacted MLG staff and received an extension. Also, on the first day, MLG might not have been on such a tight schedule. Instead of complaining next MLG, why don't you just make sure you come on time?
And the match wouldn't have been good for your career. July would almost certainly have easily beaten you and everyone would have posted "guess we know why Catz didn't want Koreans at MLG."
Guy who got stuck in broken elevator and had to have the fire department come and rescue him did contact MLG staff via his friends when it happened... He was also DQ'd for beeing 15 minutes late.
Oh wow. I feel so bad for the girl's boyfriend. This is seriously probably the worst week of his life finding out his girlfriend is such a slut. I hate to be rude and direct but that girl could not be any worse of a person to hang around. She probably knew she would get with the pros before MLG started too.
On June 09 2011 02:58 DeepBlu2 wrote: Oh wow. I feel so bad for the girl's boyfriend. This is seriously probably the worst week of his life finding out his girlfriend is such a slut. I hate to be rude and direct but that girl could not be any worse of a person to hang around. She probably knew she would get with the pros before MLG started too.
He also put her on his stream in her underwear to get more viewers, so I really don't feel that bad for him.
On June 09 2011 02:58 DeepBlu2 wrote: Oh wow. I feel so bad for the girl's boyfriend. This is seriously probably the worst week of his life finding out his girlfriend is such a slut. I hate to be rude and direct but that girl could not be any worse of a person to hang around. She probably knew she would get with the pros before MLG started too.
He also put her on his stream in her underwear to get more viewers, so I really don't feel that bad for him.
LOL. I was just reading Reddit and saw that as I read your post. Oh god. They are both terrible. If only she saved him the trouble and broke up a while ago. He said she should do it because she'll get free coaching.
On June 09 2011 02:58 DeepBlu2 wrote: Oh wow. I feel so bad for the girl's boyfriend. This is seriously probably the worst week of his life finding out his girlfriend is such a slut. I hate to be rude and direct but that girl could not be any worse of a person to hang around. She probably knew she would get with the pros before MLG started too.
He should have found out she was a slut months ago when she was stripping for SC2 coaching.
I'm pretty sure if you check the female action correlation spreadsheet that'd be in the slut column.
On a more serious note, it would be nice if we could get some actual evidence about people being more than 15 mins late and being able to play. Most of this is very circumstantial. I love CatZ, but its probably the case where his matches may have been first up on the main stage, and they just simply couldn't wait any longer.
We will probably never know exactly what happened @ MLG, but I assume there were different producers and refs, all making decisions based on their own ideals. Is there a written set of rules sent to each player who registered for MLG? Is there a set of rules on the web page? I tried to do some searching but I found nothing. I'd love to know if there is an official time rule in place, IE: 10 mins late, forfeit, or 10+ mins late, ref or opponent discretion.
As for the chick in question, there's been tons of speculation on what actually transpired, but it would be nice to hear something from CatZ or Ret themselves.
Wow. I know someone has probably already said this on Reddit, but when it gets to the point where you're listening to "take me back, i can change, ill never do it again." for the third time in three days you should really reevaluate your own actions.. Heh.
On June 09 2011 03:12 zawk9 wrote: Wow. I know someone has probably already said this on Reddit, but when it gets to the point where you're listening to "take me back, i can change, ill never do it again." for the third time in three days you should really reevaluate your own actions.. Heh.
On June 09 2011 03:12 zawk9 wrote: Wow. I know someone has probably already said this on Reddit, but when it gets to the point where you're listening to "take me back, i can change, ill never do it again." for the third time in three days you should really reevaluate your own actions.. Heh.
Easier said than done.
From reading the full thread and his comments in the comment section. It sounds like it was an easy choice. He claims they did not get back together after her make out session with Catz on night 1.
Also reading the 700+ comments on that thread is great time killer.
On June 09 2011 03:12 zawk9 wrote: Wow. I know someone has probably already said this on Reddit, but when it gets to the point where you're listening to "take me back, i can change, ill never do it again." for the third time in three days you should really reevaluate your own actions.. Heh.
Easier said than done.
From reading the full thread and his comments in the comment section. It sounds like it was an easy choice. He claims they did not get back together after her make out session with Catz on night 1.
Also reading the 700+ comments on that thread is great time killer.
its logically easy, but if you have feelings it still can be quiet difficult. I don't really know wether I should feel sorry for this guy or disgusted by that whole story..
On June 09 2011 03:12 zawk9 wrote: Wow. I know someone has probably already said this on Reddit, but when it gets to the point where you're listening to "take me back, i can change, ill never do it again." for the third time in three days you should really reevaluate your own actions.. Heh.
Easier said than done.
From reading the full thread and his comments in the comment section. It sounds like it was an easy choice. He claims they did not get back together after her make out session with Catz on night 1.
Also reading the 700+ comments on that thread is great time killer.
its logically easy, but if you have feelings it still can be quiet difficult. I don't really know wether I should feel sorry for this guy or disgusted by that whole story..
I recognize that. However, I was referring to his specific case.
On June 09 2011 03:12 zawk9 wrote: Wow. I know someone has probably already said this on Reddit, but when it gets to the point where you're listening to "take me back, i can change, ill never do it again." for the third time in three days you should really reevaluate your own actions.. Heh.
Easier said than done.
For sure and I'm really not trying to trivialize the difficulty of dealing with your emotions in that situation, but it usually comes off like that on the internet..
On June 08 2011 23:57 JoshSuth wrote: Turns out the girl in question's roommate is the one who posted that high-quality pic with Ret. =P She was the one holding the "GL" in GL HF. =P
Yeah, that's me. This whole thing is getting pretty ridiculous. I would have much rather you guys all remember me as me and not as the roommate of this girl
On June 08 2011 23:57 JoshSuth wrote: Turns out the girl in question's roommate is the one who posted that high-quality pic with Ret. =P She was the one holding the "GL" in GL HF. =P
Yeah, that's me. This whole thing is getting pretty ridiculous. I would have much rather you guys all remember me as me and not as the roommate of this crazy girl
Are you still roommates? that seems like it will now get awkward.
That is of course if she doesn't elope to The Netherlands with Ret
On June 08 2011 23:57 JoshSuth wrote: Turns out the girl in question's roommate is the one who posted that high-quality pic with Ret. =P She was the one holding the "GL" in GL HF. =P
Yeah, that's me. This whole thing is getting pretty ridiculous. I would have much rather you guys all remember me as me and not as the roommate of this crazy girl
Well you did nothing wrong, so I don't see why anyone needs to view you in a bad light.
I like this video, I like seeing you guys just chillin and hangin out.... RooT is the best team cause you guys seem like guys I would want to chill with.
Heres hopin I can keep improving and challenge some of you guys some day...
Yeah. I didn't lend money from my dad, i just dont have a credit card so I needed to use that temporarily, i paid him back immidiately via bank. And im not paying for the flight either, im helping out a bit though.
I think it was really unnesecary for this to be on the internet and there are always 2 sides to every story, i really didnt know it was going to be such a big deal. I'm shocked by all of this.
^ -Edit- Well I guess that pretty much confirms the story then no? I do agree, what you do on your own time is your own privacy though. Pretty shady that the girl hid her status with her bf though.
On June 09 2011 06:04 Liquid`Ret wrote: Yeah. I didn't lend money from my dad, i just dont have a credit card so I needed to use that temporarily, i paid him back immidiately via bank. And im not paying for the flight either, im helping out a bit though.
I think it was really unnesecary for this to be on the internet and there are always 2 sides to every story, i really didnt know it was going to be such a big deal. I'm shocked by all of this.
I'm just trying to understand.
You met a girl at MLG who was "all over" CatZ and yourself (as described by others), and you just randomly have an urge to help her pay for a plane ticket, there is also an image in this thread where it shows you saying you spent 1600 bucks and you "hope she makes her flight" or something.
Why dude? It just seems like a really poor series of decisions made by all.
On June 09 2011 06:04 Zidane wrote: ^ -Edit- Well I guess that pretty much confirms the story then no? I do agree, what you do on your own time is your own privacy though. Pretty shady that the girl hid her status with her bf though.
Agreed, imo a girl like that isn't worth pitching in ANY amount for a plane ticket.
"I'm the guy that she lied to, soon enough that guy will be you."-Voltaire
On June 09 2011 06:04 Zidane wrote: ^ -Edit- Well I guess that pretty much confirms the story then no? I do agree, what you do on your own time is your own privacy though. Pretty shady that the girl hid her status with her bf though.
Accord to the guy he met both Ret and Catz with the girl as her bf. Hide seems VERY unlikely.
On June 09 2011 06:04 Liquid`Ret wrote: Yeah. I didn't lend money from my dad, i just dont have a credit card so I needed to use that temporarily, i paid him back immidiately via bank. And im not paying for the flight either, im helping out a bit though.
I think it was really unnesecary for this to be on the internet and there are always 2 sides to every story, i really didnt know it was going to be such a big deal. I'm shocked by all of this.
You met a girl and her bf. Girl is all over Catz then you. You then fly her out to the Nerthlands and the now ex-bf posts about it. I don't see how that doesn't explode over the internet.
On June 09 2011 06:04 Liquid`Ret wrote: Yeah. I didn't lend money from my dad, i just dont have a credit card so I needed to use that temporarily, i paid him back immidiately via bank. And im not paying for the flight either, im helping out a bit though.
I think it was really unnesecary for this to be on the internet and there are always 2 sides to every story, i really didnt know it was going to be such a big deal. I'm shocked by all of this.
We're curious to hear your side of the story as well! People love drama, I don't see what's shocking about this.
On June 08 2011 23:57 JoshSuth wrote: Turns out the girl in question's roommate is the one who posted that high-quality pic with Ret. =P She was the one holding the "GL" in GL HF. =P
Yeah, that's me. This whole thing is getting pretty ridiculous. I would have much rather you guys all remember me as me and not as the roommate of this crazy girl
Are you still roommates? that seems like it will now get awkward.
That is of course if she doesn't elope to The Netherlands with Ret
As of right now we are still roommates. She moved to Columbus from Cincinnati to be with OP of the reddit post though so I'm not sure what's going to happen.
On June 08 2011 23:57 JoshSuth wrote: Turns out the girl in question's roommate is the one who posted that high-quality pic with Ret. =P She was the one holding the "GL" in GL HF. =P
Yeah, that's me. This whole thing is getting pretty ridiculous. I would have much rather you guys all remember me as me and not as the roommate of this crazy girl
Well you did nothing wrong, so I don't see why anyone needs to view you in a bad light.
(I give great coaching btw)
lol couldn't resist.
True
I'll take your coaching if it's free but you're getting nothing in return
On June 09 2011 06:04 Liquid`Ret wrote: Yeah. I didn't lend money from my dad, i just dont have a credit card so I needed to use that temporarily, i paid him back immidiately via bank. And im not paying for the flight either, im helping out a bit though.
I think it was really unnesecary for this to be on the internet and there are always 2 sides to every story, i really didnt know it was going to be such a big deal. I'm shocked by all of this.
its never nice when your the centre of attention but people are only so interested because they care about you! and they dont want you to make what looks like a mistake from the one point of view we have heard.
On June 09 2011 06:04 Liquid`Ret wrote: Yeah. I didn't lend money from my dad, i just dont have a credit card so I needed to use that temporarily, i paid him back immidiately via bank. And im not paying for the flight either, im helping out a bit though.
I think it was really unnesecary for this to be on the internet and there are always 2 sides to every story, i really didnt know it was going to be such a big deal. I'm shocked by all of this.
Not really sure where the shocking part of this is, i mean
* You meet a groupie at MLG * Said groupie during the weekend makes out a lot with Catz (and you?) * She and her BF breaks up sometime during the weekend * She then flies with you to netherlands with a plane-ticket it appears you had to borrow money from your dad to pay her * Her pissed-off BF then posts the entire story in Reddit, and it turns out she is the girls who stripped-for-starcraft a while back
Drama-bomb!
You not actually borrowing money from your dad nor actully buying her the whole ticket takes some of the edge of it i admit, but not to much. According to Reddit (so it MUST be true!!!) she also tried her luck with Destiny but was denied...
Just confirmed for cheating on me previous to all of this boys. Shit. I can also tell you based on the conversation I had with Ret he is probably going to lie about this more. He was telling me he never even kissed her. I mean i'm no more believable , just some guy on the internet, but if any of you saw her that weekend and saw how she was acting you know it to be true.
She was a liar and a all around whore. This is kind of like John Tucker Must Die only with starcraft.
And believe me, if it happened to you, it'd be a pretty big deal. And if you think about it, a random girl thats all over you generally has something significant she isn't being truthful about. This is unsurprising and unshocking. It happens all the time. The difference today is the lovely power of the internet and strange closeness of the starcraft community that she can be shamed by a massive audience instead of just being an anecdotal bar story.
I guess the upside is this happened to you now before you commited even further with her.
Edit: As a matter of fact, I believe the OP a hell of a lot more than someone trying to save their rep.
Well this is starting to look very ugly, wonder if mods are gonna jump in anytime soon seeing as they're already starting to clean up Ret's fanclub thread.
On June 09 2011 06:04 Liquid`Ret wrote: Yeah. I didn't lend money from my dad, i just dont have a credit card so I needed to use that temporarily, i paid him back immidiately via bank. And im not paying for the flight either, im helping out a bit though.
I think it was really unnesecary for this to be on the internet and there are always 2 sides to every story, i really didnt know it was going to be such a big deal. I'm shocked by all of this.
Not really sure where the shocking part of this is, i mean
* You meet a groupie at MLG * Said groupie during the weekend makes out a lot with Catz (and you?) * She and her BF breaks up sometime during the weekend * She then flies with you to netherlands with a plane-ticket it appears you had to borrow money from your dad to pay her * Her pissed-off BF then posts the entire story in Reddit, and it turns out she is the girls who stripped-for-starcraft a while back
Drama-bomb!
You not actually borrowing money from your dad nor actully buying her the whole ticket takes some of the edge of it i admit, but not to much. According to Reddit (so it MUST be true!!!) she also tried her luck with Destiny but was denied...
Whoa whoa whoa. Don't bring Destiny into this. I spent more time talking to Destiny than she did. Other than stopping to take a picture with myself and her he was not involved whatsoever and he was a really nice guy
On June 09 2011 06:04 Liquid`Ret wrote: Yeah. I didn't lend money from my dad, i just dont have a credit card so I needed to use that temporarily, i paid him back immidiately via bank. And im not paying for the flight either, im helping out a bit though.
I think it was really unnesecary for this to be on the internet and there are always 2 sides to every story, i really didnt know it was going to be such a big deal. I'm shocked by all of this.
Not really sure where the shocking part of this is, i mean
* You meet a groupie at MLG * Said groupie during the weekend makes out a lot with Catz (and you?) * She and her BF breaks up sometime during the weekend * She then flies with you to netherlands with a plane-ticket it appears you had to borrow money from your dad to pay her * Her pissed-off BF then posts the entire story in Reddit, and it turns out she is the girls who stripped-for-starcraft a while back
Drama-bomb!
You not actually borrowing money from your dad nor actully buying her the whole ticket takes some of the edge of it i admit, but not to much. According to Reddit (so it MUST be true!!!) she also tried her luck with Destiny but was denied...
Whoa whoa whoa. Don't bring Destiny into this. I spent more time talking to Destiny than she did. Other than stopping to take a picture with myself and her he was not involved whatsoever and he was a really nice guy
She never really had a go at him she more of tried to meet him, take a picture, and then he was off as soon as he heard she was the Starcraft Stripper.
Heh so many lies. In my skype conversation with you you messaged me from her skype after you got into her house I had just found out that you posted on reddit. I didn't know I was doing something so terrible I thought you guys broke up on friday, which technically you did! but I have also heard about some fucked up shit you did. You seem to be enjoying the attention thought but this is really none of anyones business its only between the people involved so I don't want to go and explain myself here on a forum.
I think Ret, Catz, and the girl is in the wrong. I feel sorry for the dude who got cheated on. As Ret said, there are two sides to a story, but when you have 10+witnesses from MLG confirming the cheated dude's story...
On June 09 2011 07:02 ptbl wrote: I think Ret, Catz, and the girl is in the wrong. I feel sorry for the dude who got cheated on. As Ret said, there are two sides to a story, but when you have 10+witnesses from MLG confirming the cheated dude's story...
+1...
I was a fan of ret since BW but this is a bit too much...
On June 09 2011 07:00 Liquid`Ret wrote: Heh so many lies. In my skype conversation with you you messaged me from her skype after you got into her house I had just found out that you posted on reddit. I didn't know I was doing something so terrible I thought you guys broke up on friday, which technically you did! but I have also heard about some fucked up shit you did. You seem to be enjoying the attention thought but this is really none of anyones business its only between the people involved so I don't want to go and explain myself here on a forum.
If you've done nothing wrong then why not explain yourself? You owe it to your fans...
On June 09 2011 07:00 Liquid`Ret wrote: Heh so many lies. In my skype conversation with you you messaged me from her skype after you got into her house I had just found out that you posted on reddit. I didn't know I was doing something so terrible I thought you guys broke up on friday, which technically you did! but I have also heard about some fucked up shit you did. You seem to be enjoying the attention thought but this is really none of anyones business its only between the people involved so I don't want to go and explain myself here on a forum.
She cheated on me previously, she cheated on her ex before me multiple times. I found all of this out after we broke up. You are her next victim Ret. She is using you to get a free trip to the Netherlands, sure she will fuck you and make you feel special but she didn't even know of you before MLG. Her favorite zerg player was catz. Does that make any sense? NO. At the same time she is on skype telling you she thinks your cute and that she can't wait to see you, that she would just die if she got to come see you, she is trying to get back together with me. Telling me she wants to marry me, we we have to be together and that she needs me.
So much stuff goes on behind the scenes that is never talked about. Everyone needs to realize a lot of these players now have "images" to uphold since it's in their best interest monetarily. Just like Ret's message, he doesn't seem like he cares at all about what occurred and just expected no one would say a thing or that it would "get out" in the open. He's shocked because his douchiness was made public not because he was a douche. Thinking with your dick and not your brain normally causes that to happen.
Expect more and more stories like this, "personal" in nature, to leak out the more attention SC gets. It's inevitable.
On June 09 2011 07:00 Liquid`Ret wrote: Heh so many lies. In my skype conversation with you you messaged me from her skype after you got into her house I had just found out that you posted on reddit. I didn't know I was doing something so terrible I thought you guys broke up on friday, which technically you did! but I have also heard about some fucked up shit you did. You seem to be enjoying the attention thought but this is really none of anyones business its only between the people involved so I don't want to go and explain myself here on a forum.
As is the case in many of these girl between multiple guys situations, the girl is pretty much entirely in the wrong. She certainly was broken up with her boyfriend as of Friday, no one would deny this even the boyfriend's own account doesn't. The inconsistency is that she continued to tell her ex that she wanted to be with him while telling Ret and Catz presumably that the relationship was over. Both parties had been deceived I am sure and it is infinitely more complicated than people can explain in endless text rants of presumable credibility. This post will probably go unnoticed amongst the thousands of "Dramabomb" screams that will be uttered until the internet decides to move on to the next one, but honestly I don't think you can fault any of the guys in this situation. They were all lied to by the one girl. This is a common social situation that occurs. Sorry if that seems sexist but I can think of tons of examples I have witnessed growing up where completely similiar situations have occurred.
On June 09 2011 07:02 ptbl wrote: I think Ret, Catz, and the girl is in the wrong. I feel sorry for the dude who got cheated on. As Ret said, there are two sides to a story, but when you have 10+witnesses from MLG confirming the cheated dude's story...
it doesnt matter what you think though. as much as its fun to swim in the drama you cant make statements over who is right and wrong when none of us know whats going on.
On June 09 2011 07:00 Liquid`Ret wrote: Heh so many lies. In my skype conversation with you you messaged me from her skype after you got into her house I had just found out that you posted on reddit. I didn't know I was doing something so terrible I thought you guys broke up on friday, which technically you did! but I have also heard about some fucked up shit you did. You seem to be enjoying the attention thought but this is really none of anyones business its only between the people involved so I don't want to go and explain myself here on a forum.
She cheated on me previously, she cheated on her ex before me multiple times. I found all of this out after we broke up. You are her next victim Ret. She is using you to get a free trip to the Netherlands, sure she will fuck you and make you feel special but she didn't even know of you before MLG. Her favorite zerg player was catz. Does that make any sense? NO. At the same time she is on skype telling you she thinks your cute and that she can't wait to see you, that she would just die if she got to come see you, she is trying to get back together with me. Telling me she wants to marry me, we we have to be together and that she needs me.
OHHH MY GAWDD DUDE. Lol. If there is a place to do this, it's PMs bro, putting this out in the open is making it more embarrassing for yourself!
On June 09 2011 07:00 Liquid`Ret wrote: Heh so many lies. In my skype conversation with you you messaged me from her skype after you got into her house I had just found out that you posted on reddit. I didn't know I was doing something so terrible I thought you guys broke up on friday, which technically you did! but I have also heard about some fucked up shit you did. You seem to be enjoying the attention thought but this is really none of anyones business its only between the people involved so I don't want to go and explain myself here on a forum.
As is the case in many of these girl between multiple guys situations, the girl is pretty much entirely in the wrong. She certainly was broken up with her boyfriend as of Friday, no one would deny this even the boyfriend's own account doesn't. The inconsistency is that she continued to tell her ex that she wanted to be with him while telling Ret and Catz presumably that the relationship was over. Both parties had been deceived I am sure and it is infinitely more complicated than people can explain in endless text rants of presumable credibility. This post will probably go unnoticed amongst the thousands of "Dramabomb" screams that will be uttered until the internet decides to move on to the next one, but honestly I don't think you can fault any of the guys in this situation. They were all lied to by the one girl. This is a common social situation that occurs. Sorry if that seems sexist but I can think of tons of examples I have witnessed growing up where completely similiar situations have occurred.
TL;DR: Bitches lie, calm down bros
You should probably ask her roommate about this one, cause she was with her most of the time. After the break up she did nothing but talk to ret about how terrible it was and how much we needed to get back together. In turn he tells her everything is going to be ok, holds hand with her, kisses her and then flies her to the Netherlands.
Oh come on guys, some of you must have been blinded by years of media bs giving you a feeling of fucking entitlement. Ret doesn't owe any of you an explanation, because this entire issue is wholly irrelevant to everyone but three or four people. I can understand that this is a funny story and that it produces some entertainment value, but how are any of you influenced by this? You don't know what girl in question and ret talked about in private. you don't know what ex boyfriend and girl in question talked about in private. you don't know what ret's perception of girl in question and ex boyfriend's relationship status was. ret is by no means obliged to tell you either - his status as a professional starcraft two gamer does not mean that every aspect of his private life is up to scrutiny. enjoy the show if you want, but with the exception of ex-boyfriend, none of you have the right to be judgemental.
On June 09 2011 07:00 Liquid`Ret wrote: so I don't want to go and explain myself here on a forum.
And yet here you are doing this, I find this whole thing pretty funny. This is now pretty much what you will be known for now.
1. This thing is not funny, I cant understand how anyone can find such a situation funny, thats sick. 2. While you may be partly right by implyng that people will remember this, I think that Ret still will mainly be known for being a great Starcraft player and I really hope that we don't forget what this community is all about: Starcraft, not Drama. (at least I hope so)
Karma is a bitch, seeing your previous post on reddit, what did you expect from her? How can you complain she is a groupie now ?? Ret is the victim here, he wasn't even the first target (catz) for her.
Wow seriously no need to drag this through the mud even more. BTW the psycho bitch girlfriend sounds like she has Histrionic personality disorder. Just read through the symptoms lol Psycho Bitch Disorder
On June 09 2011 07:08 the7ak3 wrote: Her favorite zerg player was catz. Does that make any sense?
Of course it makes sense. Have you not seen CatZ? Or heard him sing?
Anyways, there's things going on here that probably shouldn't be meddled with by us forum-goers. It's all speculation, and it's business between those involved.
Sucks CatZ didn't get to play regardless of all this stuff!
I really enjoy this type of stuff because you find out so much about people (the ones involved, in particular) that you otherwise can only speculate. Actions speak loudly, though.
That aside, no one is owed any explanation, and the way you guys are swarming Ret or the OP like you're entitled to answers is a bit sick. Leave them to it. The OP is an idiot for posting anything publicly about this in the first place, and it definitely doesn't mean someone like Ret or Catz owes you guys public explanations or anything, regardless of the foolishness of their actions.
there's a lot of untrue stuff being said, but i don't want to get into that. i met a girl, i thought she was single. i didn't think two single people hanging out was a big deal. please respect the privacy of the people involved. thanks!
though we haven't heard her side of the story i still sympathize with the boyfriend. as far as a relationship goes there isn't anything worse than knowing your partner is hooking up with other people - forget about the fact that you are in close proximity it's still bad on principle.
"Women are like monkeys swinging from vine to vine, they don't let go of one until they've grabbed onto the next."
I really cannot even pity the boyfriend in this case. He already tried to make that strip-tease Starcraft bs then took his GF straight into the lion's den. I am not going to attempt to comment on this guy because I do not know him or what really happened but based on the info given by him in his reddit he was pretty much letting his GF flaunt around all weekend without taking any action (whether it be confronting the guys attempting to hit on her, or to tell her to wake the fuck up or it's over). When things are slipping away you must do SOMETHING or you are screwed. Now granted you may have not known your GF was capable of blatantly disrespecting you so you tried to give her the benefit of the doubt for a while, but still, come on!
And can you really blame Ret? You are a progamer at a huge event where now tons of fan girls are attending. Any man who has groupies who has access to the groupies will usually try to get with the groupies, it's just the law of fame. And for you all to assume that "Ret knew she had a bf!" or that to him she is merely some groupie who said "oh hey I hear you have pretty good zerg wanna fuck?" is pretty dumb. What probably happened is this girl was showing obvious interest in Ret and probably talked and got to know each other better then told him her and her BF are done. Now, knowing the BF is still around would I get involved with this girl? Well that depends on 1. how hot is she and 2. how dangerous is he (LOL). But whatever, you cannot blame Ret, if he likes her and she likes him they are both free to do whatever they want and that includes spending 1k on a plane ticket.
If I was the ex-bf would I have posted that shit online in an attempt for revenge? No I would probably wait around for as long as it takes to assemble a plan to have his legs broken, but that's just me and I'd never get in this situation anyways. But I can't really blame him for posting it all. Such is life and whatever makes u feel better
Cliffs notes: 1. EX-Boyfriend was either a naive retard or a pussy at MLG. 2. You cannot blame Ret for swooping up a groupie fresh on the market 3. Most girls are sluts like men too, except as in this case some don't hide it as well as others. 4. Sorry Ret but this is just the price you must pay for your fame
P.S. Who cares if she made out with a newbie like Catz, obviously she has to work her way up the ladder to go from Gold to Masters with a real progamer, Liquid`Ret!
On June 09 2011 07:17 Liquid`Drone wrote: Oh come on guys, some of you must have been blinded by years of media bs giving you a feeling of fucking entitlement. Ret doesn't owe any of you an explanation, because this entire issue is wholly irrelevant to everyone but three or four people. I can understand that this is a funny story and that it produces some entertainment value, but how are any of you influenced by this? You don't know what girl in question and ret talked about in private. you don't know what ex boyfriend and girl in question talked about in private. you don't know what ret's perception of girl in question and ex boyfriend's relationship status was. ret is by no means obliged to tell you either - his status as a professional starcraft two gamer does not mean that every aspect of his private life is up to scrutiny. enjoy the show if you want, but with the exception of ex-boyfriend, none of you have the right to be judgemental.
I agree for the most part. It's their private life, but it's kind of naive to think publicly talking about in the transparency of a forum isn't going to cause some people to throw in their opinions.
Personally I could care less about the whole thing, and I wouldn't really bother taking the time to type something for or against something that happened that has nothing to do with me personally.
There are however two things that stick out to me:
1. I like the fact that the mods aren't trying to cover the e-tracks here. Maybe as the sport becomes more popular people will think more about what they do in the spotlight or at a major event.
2. Speaking of major event, the part that DOES bother me about this, was that it was at MLG. I've talked to players that have made decent showing at these events, and they always tell me how it's a lot of fun and they generally drink a lot and have a good time. Well, that's fine I guess AFTER the event. In context to this story, it seems like a lot of this happened during the event.
Seriously, how can we talk about "pro-houses" and training to "catch up with the Koreans" when we can't keep it in our pants and focus seriously for just 3 fucking days? That just makes me sad. Really Sad.
Well w/e though.... on the lighter side of things, sounds like you found a real winner there Ret :/
On June 09 2011 07:17 Liquid`Drone wrote: Oh come on guys, some of you must have been blinded by years of media bs giving you a feeling of fucking entitlement. Ret doesn't owe any of you an explanation, because this entire issue is wholly irrelevant to everyone but three or four people. I can understand that this is a funny story and that it produces some entertainment value, but how are any of you influenced by this? You don't know what girl in question and ret talked about in private. you don't know what ex boyfriend and girl in question talked about in private. you don't know what ret's perception of girl in question and ex boyfriend's relationship status was. ret is by no means obliged to tell you either - his status as a professional starcraft two gamer does not mean that every aspect of his private life is up to scrutiny. enjoy the show if you want, but with the exception of ex-boyfriend, none of you have the right to be judgemental.
You can't really say that his private life should be staying private. "Famous" people (obviously I am using that term loosely as no SC2 player is really "famous" in north america) do not have the same expectation of privacy, at least in NA, as do the everyday person. There are no laws or anything regarding the matter.
The fact is that when you have many people who are your fans, or look up to you, then your personal behavior is subject to more scrutiny simply because you have more people watching what you do. The same is true for any sports star or actor, anything "personal" they do that reflects badly upon them is quite often found out by paparazzi and sold. Gossip, drama, etc is a good business.
Ret is by no means obliged to tell us anything but we absolutely have the right to be judgemental, especially if we are only given one side of a story that paints ret in a bad light that he refuses to refute. His image is a.) something people look up to, admire, or want to watch and b.) reflective of him, TeamLiquid, and all the according sponsors. That is what happens when you are someone with at least some importance. I am sorely disappointed that he didn't realize this and approach this situation much better, and I know that I am not alone. Something like this reflects badly upon his professional team and that is why it is subject to more scrutiny. If it didn't effect others then yes it wouldn't be an issue. But he is a representative of a brand and therefore yes I am influenced by this. I know that I am much less likely to want to watch his games for at least the short term simply because I wouldn't like the player.
On June 09 2011 07:17 Liquid`Drone wrote: Oh come on guys, some of you must have been blinded by years of media bs giving you a feeling of fucking entitlement. Ret doesn't owe any of you an explanation, because this entire issue is wholly irrelevant to everyone but three or four people. I can understand that this is a funny story and that it produces some entertainment value, but how are any of you influenced by this? You don't know what girl in question and ret talked about in private. you don't know what ex boyfriend and girl in question talked about in private. you don't know what ret's perception of girl in question and ex boyfriend's relationship status was. ret is by no means obliged to tell you either - his status as a professional starcraft two gamer does not mean that every aspect of his private life is up to scrutiny. enjoy the show if you want, but with the exception of ex-boyfriend, none of you have the right to be judgemental.
I agree for the most part. It's their private life, but it's kind of naive to think publicly talking about in the transparency of a forum isn't going to cause some people to throw in their opinions.
Personally I could care less about the whole thing, and I wouldn't really bother taking the time to type something for or against something that happened that has nothing to do with me personally.
There are however two things that stick out to me:
1. I like the fact that the mods aren't trying to cover the e-tracks here. Maybe as the sport becomes more popular people will think more about what they do in the spotlight or at a major event.
2. Speaking of major event, the part that DOES bother me about this, was that it was at MLG. I've talked to players that have made decent showing at these events, and they always tell me how it's a lot of fun and they generally drink a lot and have a good time. Well, that's fine I guess AFTER the event. In context to this story, it seems like a lot of this happened during the event.
Seriously, how can we talk about "pro-houses" and training to "cacth up with the koreans" when we can't keep it in our pants and focus seriously for just 3 fucking days? That just makes me sad. Really Sad.
Well w/e though.... on the lighter side of things, sounds like you found a real winner there Ret :/
I don't think anyone cares about the boyfriend, the girl, or even Ret specifically (outside of a few fans). More that every hormonal teenager is just excited at the prospect of groupies.
On June 09 2011 07:17 Liquid`Drone wrote: Oh come on guys, some of you must have been blinded by years of media bs giving you a feeling of fucking entitlement. Ret doesn't owe any of you an explanation, because this entire issue is wholly irrelevant to everyone but three or four people. I can understand that this is a funny story and that it produces some entertainment value, but how are any of you influenced by this? You don't know what girl in question and ret talked about in private. you don't know what ex boyfriend and girl in question talked about in private. you don't know what ret's perception of girl in question and ex boyfriend's relationship status was. ret is by no means obliged to tell you either - his status as a professional starcraft two gamer does not mean that every aspect of his private life is up to scrutiny. enjoy the show if you want, but with the exception of ex-boyfriend, none of you have the right to be judgemental.
You can't really say that his private life should be staying private. "Famous" people (obviously I am using that term loosely as no SC2 player is really "famous" in north america) do not have the same expectation of privacy, at least in NA, as do the everyday person. There are no laws or anything regarding the matter.
The fact is that when you have many people who are your fans, or look up to you, then your personal behavior is subject to more scrutiny simply because you have more people watching what you do. The same is true for any sports star or actor, anything "personal" they do that reflects badly upon them is quite often found out by paparazzi and sold. Gossip, drama, etc is a good business.
Ret is by no means obliged to tell us anything but we absolutely have the right to be judgemental, especially if we are only given one side of a story that paints ret in a bad light that he refuses to refute. His image is a.) something people look up to, admire, or want to watch and b.) reflective of him, TeamLiquid, and all the according sponsors. That is what happens when you are someone with at least some importance. I am sorely disappointed that he didn't realize this and approach this situation much better, and I know that I am not alone. Something like this reflects badly upon his professional team and that is why it is subject to more scrutiny. If it didn't effect others then yes it wouldn't be an issue. But he is a representative of a brand and therefore yes I am influenced by this. I know that I am much less likely to want to watch his games for at least the short term simply because I wouldn't like the player.
WOW cmon made out with a girl he thought was single LMAO. You're making it sound like he impregnated her and is abandoning the baby.
On June 09 2011 07:25 Rekrul wrote: "Women are like monkeys swinging from vine to vine, they don't let go of one until they've grabbed onto the next."
I really cannot even pity the boyfriend in this case. He already tried to make that strip-tease Starcraft bs then took his GF straight into the lion's den. I am not going to attempt to comment on this guy because I do not know him or what really happened but based on the info given by him in his reddit he was pretty much letting his GF flaunt around all weekend without taking any action (whether it be confronting the guys attempting to hit on her, or to tell her to wake the fuck up or it's over). When things are slipping away you must do SOMETHING or you are screwed. Now granted you may have not known your GF was capable of blatantly disrespecting you so you tried to give her the benefit of the doubt for a while, but still, come on!
And can you really blame Ret? You are a progamer at a huge event where now tons of fan girls are attending. Any man who has groupies who has access to the groupies will usually try to get with the groupies, it's just the law of fame. And for you all to assume that "Ret knew she had a bf!" or that to him she is merely some groupie who said "oh hey I hear you have pretty good zerg wanna fuck?" is pretty dumb. What probably happened is this girl was showing obvious interest in Ret and probably talked and got to know each other better then told him her and her BF are done. Now, knowing the BF is still around would I get involved with this girl? Well that depends on 1. how hot is she and 2. how dangerous is he (LOL). But whatever, you cannot blame Ret, if he likes her and she likes him they are both free to do whatever they want and that includes spending 1k on a plane ticket.
If I was the ex-bf would I have posted that shit online in an attempt for revenge? No I would probably wait around for as long as it takes to assemble a plan to have his legs broken, but that's just me and I'd never get in this situation anyways. But I can't really blame him. Such is life and whatever makes u feel better
Cliffs notes: 1. EX-Boyfriend was either a naive retard or a pussy at MLG. 2. You cannot blame Ret for swooping up a groupie fresh on the market 3. Most girls are sluts like men too, except as in this case some don't hide it as well as others.
P.S. Who cares if she made out with a newbie like Catz, obviously she has to work her way up the ladder to go from Gold to Masters with a real progamer, Liquid`Ret!
as much as i mostly agree with what you are saying i dont think its fair to label the guy as a pussy. i know its cool to act like we would all 'smack that faggot' for messing with the women folk but thats not how things get done . and even if he was the violent type, i dont think attacking someone as popular as ret at an mlg is a smart way to keep your legs attached to your body :D
I agree with ret on this one from everything said the guy broke up with the girl on friday and even if not this is you and her problem maybe bring up with her, and for some one who swears your not taking her back you sure seem like some one who wants her back, obviously she is not your type of girl your really into so instead of wasting energy getting mad or upset go find some who can be a little bit more tame and not try to show her off on webcam cause it would probably happen again. But back to what this was actually about, I agree with catz the fact that some people were allowed to be late and didnt get DQ is unfair and mlg should change it i think so they have a wait time, like ten mins and 10-15 per game. I really wanted to see the july -catz match
On June 09 2011 07:17 Liquid`Drone wrote: Oh come on guys, some of you must have been blinded by years of media bs giving you a feeling of fucking entitlement. Ret doesn't owe any of you an explanation, because this entire issue is wholly irrelevant to everyone but three or four people. I can understand that this is a funny story and that it produces some entertainment value, but how are any of you influenced by this? You don't know what girl in question and ret talked about in private. you don't know what ex boyfriend and girl in question talked about in private. you don't know what ret's perception of girl in question and ex boyfriend's relationship status was. ret is by no means obliged to tell you either - his status as a professional starcraft two gamer does not mean that every aspect of his private life is up to scrutiny. enjoy the show if you want, but with the exception of ex-boyfriend, none of you have the right to be judgemental.
You can't really say that his private life should be staying private. "Famous" people (obviously I am using that term loosely as no SC2 player is really "famous" in north america) do not have the same expectation of privacy, at least in NA, as do the everyday person. There are no laws or anything regarding the matter.
The fact is that when you have many people who are your fans, or look up to you, then your personal behavior is subject to more scrutiny simply because you have more people watching what you do. The same is true for any sports star or actor, anything "personal" they do that reflects badly upon them is quite often found out by paparazzi and sold. Gossip, drama, etc is a good business.
Ret is by no means obliged to tell us anything but we absolutely have the right to be judgemental, especially if we are only given one side of a story that paints ret in a bad light that he refuses to refute. His image is a.) something people look up to, admire, or want to watch and b.) reflective of him, TeamLiquid, and all the according sponsors. That is what happens when you are someone with at least some importance. I am sorely disappointed that he didn't realize this and approach this situation much better, and I know that I am not alone. Something like this reflects badly upon his professional team and that is why it is subject to more scrutiny. If it didn't effect others then yes it wouldn't be an issue. But he is a representative of a brand and therefore yes I am influenced by this. I know that I am much less likely to want to watch his games for at least the short term simply because I wouldn't like the player.
1: Yes, famous people have been victims of paparazzis and lack of privacy for years. But isn't this pretty fucking horrible? I mean, in some instances you have dumb celebrities who want fame for the sake of being famous - and in that case they did give up their privacy. But for most celebrities, they are celebrities through being exceptionally good at something - and the fame and thus lack of privacy is something of a negative, unintended consequence. In fact, you might say that this sort of, gossipy behaviour, is discouraging exceptionalism. And that, to me, is bad.
2: Just because something is good business, does not mean it should be encouraged. Weapons, prostitution and drugs make up three of the biggest industries in the world. While at least two out of these three might give you entertainment, I think we can largely agree that they contribute more bad than good.
3: The reason why you cannot be judgemental is that you are judging based on incomplete information. So far you have heard the story of one disgruntled part whom is obviously really biased, one part has not posted anything, and the third part has posted that not everything posted is true, but that he feels this is within his private sphere and that it is none of your concern. That should end it - it's none of your concern. Ret is a sc2 player, judge him based on that.
I think there's a difference between europe and usa in this aspect though, you have far more people who are famous for being famous, and with the exception of england, the right to privacy is far more respected in europe - unless someone's private actions are actually in direct conflict with their public persona, then I don't see how it matters at all.
Don't really care about the whole situation, backstory or history. Just wanted to clap and tell Ret that I'm glad he had a fun/enjoyable time at MLG and got some action.
Doesn't sound like either Catz or Ret has had much experience dealing with girls so of course they don't recognize gold diggers or tramps at first sight. Honest noob mistake. Lesson learned I hope.
On June 09 2011 07:23 Steven.Bonnell.II wrote: I really enjoy this type of stuff because you find out so much about people (the ones involved, in particular) that you otherwise can only speculate. Actions speak loudly, though.
That aside, no one is owed any explanation, and the way you guys are swarming Ret or the OP like you're entitled to answers is a bit sick. Leave them to it. The OP is an idiot for posting anything publicly about this in the first place, and it definitely doesn't mean someone like Ret or Catz owes you guys public explanations or anything, regardless of the foolishness of their actions.
I think this has a lot of validity.
Being involved makes it easy to get caught up in the drama but I am definitely stepping back and letting this work itself out.
On June 09 2011 07:17 Liquid`Drone wrote: Oh come on guys, some of you must have been blinded by years of media bs giving you a feeling of fucking entitlement. Ret doesn't owe any of you an explanation, because this entire issue is wholly irrelevant to everyone but three or four people. I can understand that this is a funny story and that it produces some entertainment value, but how are any of you influenced by this? You don't know what girl in question and ret talked about in private. you don't know what ex boyfriend and girl in question talked about in private. you don't know what ret's perception of girl in question and ex boyfriend's relationship status was. ret is by no means obliged to tell you either - his status as a professional starcraft two gamer does not mean that every aspect of his private life is up to scrutiny. enjoy the show if you want, but with the exception of ex-boyfriend, none of you have the right to be judgemental.
You can't really say that his private life should be staying private. "Famous" people (obviously I am using that term loosely as no SC2 player is really "famous" in north america) do not have the same expectation of privacy, at least in NA, as do the everyday person. There are no laws or anything regarding the matter.
The fact is that when you have many people who are your fans, or look up to you, then your personal behavior is subject to more scrutiny simply because you have more people watching what you do. The same is true for any sports star or actor, anything "personal" they do that reflects badly upon them is quite often found out by paparazzi and sold. Gossip, drama, etc is a good business.
Ret is by no means obliged to tell us anything but we absolutely have the right to be judgemental, especially if we are only given one side of a story that paints ret in a bad light that he refuses to refute. His image is a.) something people look up to, admire, or want to watch and b.) reflective of him, TeamLiquid, and all the according sponsors. That is what happens when you are someone with at least some importance. I am sorely disappointed that he didn't realize this and approach this situation much better, and I know that I am not alone. Something like this reflects badly upon his professional team and that is why it is subject to more scrutiny. If it didn't effect others then yes it wouldn't be an issue. But he is a representative of a brand and therefore yes I am influenced by this. I know that I am much less likely to want to watch his games for at least the short term simply because I wouldn't like the player.
1: Yes, famous people have been victims of paparazzis and lack of privacy for years. But isn't this pretty fucking horrible? I mean, in some instances you have dumb celebrities who want fame for the sake of being famous - and in that case they did give up their privacy. But for most celebrities, they are celebrities through being exceptionally good at something - and the fame and thus lack of privacy is something of a negative, unintended consequence. In fact, you might say that this sort of, gossipy behaviour, is in fact discouraging exceptionalism. And that, to me, is bad.
2: Just because something is good business, does not mean it should be encouraged. Weapons, prostitution and drugs make up three of the biggest industries in the world. While at least two out of these three might give you entertainment, I think we can largely agree that they contribute more bad than good.
3: The reason why you cannot be judgemental is that you are judging based on incomplete information. So far you have heard the story of one disgruntled part whom is obviously really biased, one part has not posted anything, and the third part has posted that not everything posted is true, but that he feels this is within his private sphere and that it is none of your concern. That should end it - it's none of your concern. Ret is a sc2 player, judge him based on that.
I think there's a difference between europe and usa in this aspect though, you have far more people who are famous for being famous, and with the exception of england, the right to privacy is far more respected in europe - unless someone's private actions are actually in direct conflict with their public persona, then I don't see how it matters at all.
I agree in the fact that paparazzi is bad and so is the gossip industry. I tend to not care at all and completely ignore most of it, I hate it when a news channel covers something stupid like "Justin Bieber's new haircut". Also I do agree, it is more of a thing in America than in Europe which is why I think Ret didn't realize what could happen here. Also there is actually other partial information from people who were at MLG and saw Ret / Catz with this girl apparently (from the reddit thread).
Going forward however there are lessons to be learned. Forging e-sports into something that is actually respected though means that we really do need to avoid situations like this, for both the sport and the players. For the sport this just reflects badly. Yes it happens in established sports, but what kind of image do people get of e-sports when they hear of players acting like this? For Ret himself it even does have consequences. It's extremely unlikely but if he is in a close position with another player to get invited to a tournament couldn't the tournament sponsors decide to go with someone else to avoid a negative incident associated with the sponsors?
I just hope that any other player that gets involved with groupies (Idra) learns a lesson in at least how to be careful here. There is nothing intrinsically wrong with getting with a groupie, but it does have to be done with more tact than what was done here. I don't blame Ret too much for what went on though, I do believe he was a little blindsided with how america approaches privacy.
On June 09 2011 07:02 ptbl wrote: I think Ret, Catz, and the girl is in the wrong. I feel sorry for the dude who got cheated on. As Ret said, there are two sides to a story, but when you have 10+witnesses from MLG confirming the cheated dude's story...
+1...
I was a fan of ret since BW but this is a bit too much...
On June 09 2011 07:00 Liquid`Ret wrote: Heh so many lies. In my skype conversation with you you messaged me from her skype after you got into her house I had just found out that you posted on reddit. I didn't know I was doing something so terrible I thought you guys broke up on friday, which technically you did! but I have also heard about some fucked up shit you did. You seem to be enjoying the attention thought but this is really none of anyones business its only between the people involved so I don't want to go and explain myself here on a forum.
If you've done nothing wrong then why not explain yourself? You owe it to your fans...
To me the chick's boyfriend seems pretty much an attention whore. Why would he make a thread on reddit telling us his story in the first place, then come here and give details? Seems he's looking for some kind of revenge on his ex-gf that he will never get.
Edit: Yeah and let's not forget about the "My gf will strip on stream for free lessons" thing.
This kid started a thread on reddit to get viewers because his GF (now ex-GF) wanted to start a STRIP SC2 STREAM for LESSONS. How he did not see this coming, I have no idea and he deserves everything that happened to him.
On June 09 2011 07:17 Liquid`Drone wrote: Oh come on guys, some of you must have been blinded by years of media bs giving you a feeling of fucking entitlement. Ret doesn't owe any of you an explanation, because this entire issue is wholly irrelevant to everyone but three or four people. I can understand that this is a funny story and that it produces some entertainment value, but how are any of you influenced by this? You don't know what girl in question and ret talked about in private. you don't know what ex boyfriend and girl in question talked about in private. you don't know what ret's perception of girl in question and ex boyfriend's relationship status was. ret is by no means obliged to tell you either - his status as a professional starcraft two gamer does not mean that every aspect of his private life is up to scrutiny. enjoy the show if you want, but with the exception of ex-boyfriend, none of you have the right to be judgemental.
You can't really say that his private life should be staying private. "Famous" people (obviously I am using that term loosely as no SC2 player is really "famous" in north america) do not have the same expectation of privacy, at least in NA, as do the everyday person. There are no laws or anything regarding the matter.
The fact is that when you have many people who are your fans, or look up to you, then your personal behavior is subject to more scrutiny simply because you have more people watching what you do. The same is true for any sports star or actor, anything "personal" they do that reflects badly upon them is quite often found out by paparazzi and sold. Gossip, drama, etc is a good business.
Ret is by no means obliged to tell us anything but we absolutely have the right to be judgemental, especially if we are only given one side of a story that paints ret in a bad light that he refuses to refute. His image is a.) something people look up to, admire, or want to watch and b.) reflective of him, TeamLiquid, and all the according sponsors. That is what happens when you are someone with at least some importance. I am sorely disappointed that he didn't realize this and approach this situation much better, and I know that I am not alone. Something like this reflects badly upon his professional team and that is why it is subject to more scrutiny. If it didn't effect others then yes it wouldn't be an issue. But he is a representative of a brand and therefore yes I am influenced by this. I know that I am much less likely to want to watch his games for at least the short term simply because I wouldn't like the player.
1: Yes, famous people have been victims of paparazzis and lack of privacy for years. But isn't this pretty fucking horrible? I mean, in some instances you have dumb celebrities who want fame for the sake of being famous - and in that case they did give up their privacy. But for most celebrities, they are celebrities through being exceptionally good at something - and the fame and thus lack of privacy is something of a negative, unintended consequence. In fact, you might say that this sort of, gossipy behaviour, is in fact discouraging exceptionalism. And that, to me, is bad.
2: Just because something is good business, does not mean it should be encouraged. Weapons, prostitution and drugs make up three of the biggest industries in the world. While at least two out of these three might give you entertainment, I think we can largely agree that they contribute more bad than good.
3: The reason why you cannot be judgemental is that you are judging based on incomplete information. So far you have heard the story of one disgruntled part whom is obviously really biased, one part has not posted anything, and the third part has posted that not everything posted is true, but that he feels this is within his private sphere and that it is none of your concern. That should end it - it's none of your concern. Ret is a sc2 player, judge him based on that.
I think there's a difference between europe and usa in this aspect though, you have far more people who are famous for being famous, and with the exception of england, the right to privacy is far more respected in europe - unless someone's private actions are actually in direct conflict with their public persona, then I don't see how it matters at all.
Going forward however there are lessons to be learned. Forging e-sports into something that is actually respected though means that we really do need to avoid situations like this, for both the sport and the players. For the sport this just reflects badly. Yes it happens in established sports, but what kind of image do people get of e-sports when they hear of players acting like this? For Ret himself it even does have consequences. It's extremely unlikely but if he is in a close position with another player to get invited to a tournament couldn't the tournament sponsors decide to go with someone else to avoid a negative incident associated with the sponsors?
LMAO once again the "For the future of e-sports we just can't let this happen!" nonsense. Get a clue.
Given her track record (previous BF's accounts, strip-starcraft fiasco, and events at Columbus) sounds like a big ball of crazy/drama is on its way to the Netherlands... I can only hope that if Ret decides to stick his dick in crazy it wont affect his gameplay.
Damn, let them with their personal life, its not your business at all so why do you care so much about it ? Whatever they do, they are free to do it so stop judging people without knowing the entire story.
On June 09 2011 07:17 Liquid`Drone wrote: Oh come on guys, some of you must have been blinded by years of media bs giving you a feeling of fucking entitlement. Ret doesn't owe any of you an explanation, because this entire issue is wholly irrelevant to everyone but three or four people. I can understand that this is a funny story and that it produces some entertainment value, but how are any of you influenced by this? You don't know what girl in question and ret talked about in private. you don't know what ex boyfriend and girl in question talked about in private. you don't know what ret's perception of girl in question and ex boyfriend's relationship status was. ret is by no means obliged to tell you either - his status as a professional starcraft two gamer does not mean that every aspect of his private life is up to scrutiny. enjoy the show if you want, but with the exception of ex-boyfriend, none of you have the right to be judgemental.
You can't really say that his private life should be staying private. "Famous" people (obviously I am using that term loosely as no SC2 player is really "famous" in north america) do not have the same expectation of privacy, at least in NA, as do the everyday person. There are no laws or anything regarding the matter.
The fact is that when you have many people who are your fans, or look up to you, then your personal behavior is subject to more scrutiny simply because you have more people watching what you do. The same is true for any sports star or actor, anything "personal" they do that reflects badly upon them is quite often found out by paparazzi and sold. Gossip, drama, etc is a good business.
Ret is by no means obliged to tell us anything but we absolutely have the right to be judgemental, especially if we are only given one side of a story that paints ret in a bad light that he refuses to refute. His image is a.) something people look up to, admire, or want to watch and b.) reflective of him, TeamLiquid, and all the according sponsors. That is what happens when you are someone with at least some importance. I am sorely disappointed that he didn't realize this and approach this situation much better, and I know that I am not alone. Something like this reflects badly upon his professional team and that is why it is subject to more scrutiny. If it didn't effect others then yes it wouldn't be an issue. But he is a representative of a brand and therefore yes I am influenced by this. I know that I am much less likely to want to watch his games for at least the short term simply because I wouldn't like the player.
1: Yes, famous people have been victims of paparazzis and lack of privacy for years. But isn't this pretty fucking horrible? I mean, in some instances you have dumb celebrities who want fame for the sake of being famous - and in that case they did give up their privacy. But for most celebrities, they are celebrities through being exceptionally good at something - and the fame and thus lack of privacy is something of a negative, unintended consequence. In fact, you might say that this sort of, gossipy behaviour, is in fact discouraging exceptionalism. And that, to me, is bad.
2: Just because something is good business, does not mean it should be encouraged. Weapons, prostitution and drugs make up three of the biggest industries in the world. While at least two out of these three might give you entertainment, I think we can largely agree that they contribute more bad than good.
3: The reason why you cannot be judgemental is that you are judging based on incomplete information. So far you have heard the story of one disgruntled part whom is obviously really biased, one part has not posted anything, and the third part has posted that not everything posted is true, but that he feels this is within his private sphere and that it is none of your concern. That should end it - it's none of your concern. Ret is a sc2 player, judge him based on that.
I think there's a difference between europe and usa in this aspect though, you have far more people who are famous for being famous, and with the exception of england, the right to privacy is far more respected in europe - unless someone's private actions are actually in direct conflict with their public persona, then I don't see how it matters at all.
Going forward however there are lessons to be learned. Forging e-sports into something that is actually respected though means that we really do need to avoid situations like this, for both the sport and the players. For the sport this just reflects badly. Yes it happens in established sports, but what kind of image do people get of e-sports when they hear of players acting like this? For Ret himself it even does have consequences. It's extremely unlikely but if he is in a close position with another player to get invited to a tournament couldn't the tournament sponsors decide to go with someone else to avoid a negative incident associated with the sponsors?
LMAO once again the "For the future of e-sports we just can't let this happen!" nonsense. Get a clue.
On June 09 2011 07:17 Liquid`Drone wrote: Oh come on guys, some of you must have been blinded by years of media bs giving you a feeling of fucking entitlement. Ret doesn't owe any of you an explanation, because this entire issue is wholly irrelevant to everyone but three or four people. I can understand that this is a funny story and that it produces some entertainment value, but how are any of you influenced by this? You don't know what girl in question and ret talked about in private. you don't know what ex boyfriend and girl in question talked about in private. you don't know what ret's perception of girl in question and ex boyfriend's relationship status was. ret is by no means obliged to tell you either - his status as a professional starcraft two gamer does not mean that every aspect of his private life is up to scrutiny. enjoy the show if you want, but with the exception of ex-boyfriend, none of you have the right to be judgemental.
You can't really say that his private life should be staying private. "Famous" people (obviously I am using that term loosely as no SC2 player is really "famous" in north america) do not have the same expectation of privacy, at least in NA, as do the everyday person. There are no laws or anything regarding the matter.
The fact is that when you have many people who are your fans, or look up to you, then your personal behavior is subject to more scrutiny simply because you have more people watching what you do. The same is true for any sports star or actor, anything "personal" they do that reflects badly upon them is quite often found out by paparazzi and sold. Gossip, drama, etc is a good business.
Ret is by no means obliged to tell us anything but we absolutely have the right to be judgemental, especially if we are only given one side of a story that paints ret in a bad light that he refuses to refute. His image is a.) something people look up to, admire, or want to watch and b.) reflective of him, TeamLiquid, and all the according sponsors. That is what happens when you are someone with at least some importance. I am sorely disappointed that he didn't realize this and approach this situation much better, and I know that I am not alone. Something like this reflects badly upon his professional team and that is why it is subject to more scrutiny. If it didn't effect others then yes it wouldn't be an issue. But he is a representative of a brand and therefore yes I am influenced by this. I know that I am much less likely to want to watch his games for at least the short term simply because I wouldn't like the player.
1: Yes, famous people have been victims of paparazzis and lack of privacy for years. But isn't this pretty fucking horrible? I mean, in some instances you have dumb celebrities who want fame for the sake of being famous - and in that case they did give up their privacy. But for most celebrities, they are celebrities through being exceptionally good at something - and the fame and thus lack of privacy is something of a negative, unintended consequence. In fact, you might say that this sort of, gossipy behaviour, is in fact discouraging exceptionalism. And that, to me, is bad.
2: Just because something is good business, does not mean it should be encouraged. Weapons, prostitution and drugs make up three of the biggest industries in the world. While at least two out of these three might give you entertainment, I think we can largely agree that they contribute more bad than good.
3: The reason why you cannot be judgemental is that you are judging based on incomplete information. So far you have heard the story of one disgruntled part whom is obviously really biased, one part has not posted anything, and the third part has posted that not everything posted is true, but that he feels this is within his private sphere and that it is none of your concern. That should end it - it's none of your concern. Ret is a sc2 player, judge him based on that.
I think there's a difference between europe and usa in this aspect though, you have far more people who are famous for being famous, and with the exception of england, the right to privacy is far more respected in europe - unless someone's private actions are actually in direct conflict with their public persona, then I don't see how it matters at all.
Going forward however there are lessons to be learned. Forging e-sports into something that is actually respected though means that we really do need to avoid situations like this, for both the sport and the players. For the sport this just reflects badly. Yes it happens in established sports, but what kind of image do people get of e-sports when they hear of players acting like this? For Ret himself it even does have consequences. It's extremely unlikely but if he is in a close position with another player to get invited to a tournament couldn't the tournament sponsors decide to go with someone else to avoid a negative incident associated with the sponsors?
LMAO once again the "For the future of e-sports we just can't let this happen!" nonsense. Get a clue.
No u see u don''t realize now that this has happened hundreds of thousands of dollars wont be going to esports, prospective tourneys that were going to be the greatest have ceased, and companies have now shunned esports as a whole, the entire scene is gonna collapse within days!
On June 09 2011 07:17 Liquid`Drone wrote: Oh come on guys, some of you must have been blinded by years of media bs giving you a feeling of fucking entitlement. Ret doesn't owe any of you an explanation, because this entire issue is wholly irrelevant to everyone but three or four people. I can understand that this is a funny story and that it produces some entertainment value, but how are any of you influenced by this? You don't know what girl in question and ret talked about in private. you don't know what ex boyfriend and girl in question talked about in private. you don't know what ret's perception of girl in question and ex boyfriend's relationship status was. ret is by no means obliged to tell you either - his status as a professional starcraft two gamer does not mean that every aspect of his private life is up to scrutiny. enjoy the show if you want, but with the exception of ex-boyfriend, none of you have the right to be judgemental.
You can't really say that his private life should be staying private. "Famous" people (obviously I am using that term loosely as no SC2 player is really "famous" in north america) do not have the same expectation of privacy, at least in NA, as do the everyday person. There are no laws or anything regarding the matter.
The fact is that when you have many people who are your fans, or look up to you, then your personal behavior is subject to more scrutiny simply because you have more people watching what you do. The same is true for any sports star or actor, anything "personal" they do that reflects badly upon them is quite often found out by paparazzi and sold. Gossip, drama, etc is a good business.
Ret is by no means obliged to tell us anything but we absolutely have the right to be judgemental, especially if we are only given one side of a story that paints ret in a bad light that he refuses to refute. His image is a.) something people look up to, admire, or want to watch and b.) reflective of him, TeamLiquid, and all the according sponsors. That is what happens when you are someone with at least some importance. I am sorely disappointed that he didn't realize this and approach this situation much better, and I know that I am not alone. Something like this reflects badly upon his professional team and that is why it is subject to more scrutiny. If it didn't effect others then yes it wouldn't be an issue. But he is a representative of a brand and therefore yes I am influenced by this. I know that I am much less likely to want to watch his games for at least the short term simply because I wouldn't like the player.
1: Yes, famous people have been victims of paparazzis and lack of privacy for years. But isn't this pretty fucking horrible? I mean, in some instances you have dumb celebrities who want fame for the sake of being famous - and in that case they did give up their privacy. But for most celebrities, they are celebrities through being exceptionally good at something - and the fame and thus lack of privacy is something of a negative, unintended consequence. In fact, you might say that this sort of, gossipy behaviour, is in fact discouraging exceptionalism. And that, to me, is bad.
2: Just because something is good business, does not mean it should be encouraged. Weapons, prostitution and drugs make up three of the biggest industries in the world. While at least two out of these three might give you entertainment, I think we can largely agree that they contribute more bad than good.
3: The reason why you cannot be judgemental is that you are judging based on incomplete information. So far you have heard the story of one disgruntled part whom is obviously really biased, one part has not posted anything, and the third part has posted that not everything posted is true, but that he feels this is within his private sphere and that it is none of your concern. That should end it - it's none of your concern. Ret is a sc2 player, judge him based on that.
I think there's a difference between europe and usa in this aspect though, you have far more people who are famous for being famous, and with the exception of england, the right to privacy is far more respected in europe - unless someone's private actions are actually in direct conflict with their public persona, then I don't see how it matters at all.
Going forward however there are lessons to be learned. Forging e-sports into something that is actually respected though means that we really do need to avoid situations like this, for both the sport and the players. For the sport this just reflects badly. Yes it happens in established sports, but what kind of image do people get of e-sports when they hear of players acting like this? For Ret himself it even does have consequences. It's extremely unlikely but if he is in a close position with another player to get invited to a tournament couldn't the tournament sponsors decide to go with someone else to avoid a negative incident associated with the sponsors?
LMAO once again the "For the future of e-sports we just can't let this happen!" nonsense. Get a clue.
I think I can safely say that YOU ARE HURTING ESPORTS by laughing at that fine piece of post
What a pity to belong to a community that spread that crap.We are supposed to be all mature and a woman + a man .... can do some stuff OMG.... NO?! And if a girl is acting bitchy (under alcohol)...so what?
On June 09 2011 07:17 Liquid`Drone wrote: Oh come on guys, some of you must have been blinded by years of media bs giving you a feeling of fucking entitlement. Ret doesn't owe any of you an explanation, because this entire issue is wholly irrelevant to everyone but three or four people. I can understand that this is a funny story and that it produces some entertainment value, but how are any of you influenced by this? You don't know what girl in question and ret talked about in private. you don't know what ex boyfriend and girl in question talked about in private. you don't know what ret's perception of girl in question and ex boyfriend's relationship status was. ret is by no means obliged to tell you either - his status as a professional starcraft two gamer does not mean that every aspect of his private life is up to scrutiny. enjoy the show if you want, but with the exception of ex-boyfriend, none of you have the right to be judgemental.
You can't really say that his private life should be staying private. "Famous" people (obviously I am using that term loosely as no SC2 player is really "famous" in north america) do not have the same expectation of privacy, at least in NA, as do the everyday person. There are no laws or anything regarding the matter.
The fact is that when you have many people who are your fans, or look up to you, then your personal behavior is subject to more scrutiny simply because you have more people watching what you do. The same is true for any sports star or actor, anything "personal" they do that reflects badly upon them is quite often found out by paparazzi and sold. Gossip, drama, etc is a good business.
Ret is by no means obliged to tell us anything but we absolutely have the right to be judgemental, especially if we are only given one side of a story that paints ret in a bad light that he refuses to refute. His image is a.) something people look up to, admire, or want to watch and b.) reflective of him, TeamLiquid, and all the according sponsors. That is what happens when you are someone with at least some importance. I am sorely disappointed that he didn't realize this and approach this situation much better, and I know that I am not alone. Something like this reflects badly upon his professional team and that is why it is subject to more scrutiny. If it didn't effect others then yes it wouldn't be an issue. But he is a representative of a brand and therefore yes I am influenced by this. I know that I am much less likely to want to watch his games for at least the short term simply because I wouldn't like the player.
1: Yes, famous people have been victims of paparazzis and lack of privacy for years. But isn't this pretty fucking horrible? I mean, in some instances you have dumb celebrities who want fame for the sake of being famous - and in that case they did give up their privacy. But for most celebrities, they are celebrities through being exceptionally good at something - and the fame and thus lack of privacy is something of a negative, unintended consequence. In fact, you might say that this sort of, gossipy behaviour, is in fact discouraging exceptionalism. And that, to me, is bad.
2: Just because something is good business, does not mean it should be encouraged. Weapons, prostitution and drugs make up three of the biggest industries in the world. While at least two out of these three might give you entertainment, I think we can largely agree that they contribute more bad than good.
3: The reason why you cannot be judgemental is that you are judging based on incomplete information. So far you have heard the story of one disgruntled part whom is obviously really biased, one part has not posted anything, and the third part has posted that not everything posted is true, but that he feels this is within his private sphere and that it is none of your concern. That should end it - it's none of your concern. Ret is a sc2 player, judge him based on that.
I think there's a difference between europe and usa in this aspect though, you have far more people who are famous for being famous, and with the exception of england, the right to privacy is far more respected in europe - unless someone's private actions are actually in direct conflict with their public persona, then I don't see how it matters at all.
Going forward however there are lessons to be learned. Forging e-sports into something that is actually respected though means that we really do need to avoid situations like this, for both the sport and the players. For the sport this just reflects badly. Yes it happens in established sports, but what kind of image do people get of e-sports when they hear of players acting like this? For Ret himself it even does have consequences. It's extremely unlikely but if he is in a close position with another player to get invited to a tournament couldn't the tournament sponsors decide to go with someone else to avoid a negative incident associated with the sponsors?
LMAO once again the "For the future of e-sports we just can't let this happen!" nonsense. Get a clue.
I think I can safely say that YOU ARE HURTING ESPORTS by laughing at that fine piece of post
I know ur being sarcastic but I find it sad that a bunch of kids will actually agree with Lunares' argument.
I am personally glad to hear that ret and catz and othere pros are able to get out at all and have some fun. If they got with a girl whether they were single or not who cares. These guys play tons of hours usually inside there homes and need to have some fun and let off some steam. If they do get a girl and its yours and you lost it to them then its both you loss and gain. obviously if your were with them you cared and sucks to lose some one but on the plus side the werent right for you. It is none of any ones business who did what with who or anything.
I think a life lesson is needed for that guy, a girl is always available on the market until you put a ring on her death. (unless she is the gf of a friend or family, in that case, its just douchy) If you whore her out for viewership/coaching, well we know what happens now.
Dramadramadrama. Does this really have to be discussed in such a public forum? -_- I'd hate to be involved and have people scrutinize, poke and prod. That being said... I learned my lesson about asian girls, don't do it man!
On June 09 2011 07:17 Liquid`Drone wrote: Oh come on guys, some of you must have been blinded by years of media bs giving you a feeling of fucking entitlement. Ret doesn't owe any of you an explanation, because this entire issue is wholly irrelevant to everyone but three or four people. I can understand that this is a funny story and that it produces some entertainment value, but how are any of you influenced by this? You don't know what girl in question and ret talked about in private. you don't know what ex boyfriend and girl in question talked about in private. you don't know what ret's perception of girl in question and ex boyfriend's relationship status was. ret is by no means obliged to tell you either - his status as a professional starcraft two gamer does not mean that every aspect of his private life is up to scrutiny. enjoy the show if you want, but with the exception of ex-boyfriend, none of you have the right to be judgemental.
You can't really say that his private life should be staying private. "Famous" people (obviously I am using that term loosely as no SC2 player is really "famous" in north america) do not have the same expectation of privacy, at least in NA, as do the everyday person. There are no laws or anything regarding the matter.
The fact is that when you have many people who are your fans, or look up to you, then your personal behavior is subject to more scrutiny simply because you have more people watching what you do. The same is true for any sports star or actor, anything "personal" they do that reflects badly upon them is quite often found out by paparazzi and sold. Gossip, drama, etc is a good business.
Ret is by no means obliged to tell us anything but we absolutely have the right to be judgemental, especially if we are only given one side of a story that paints ret in a bad light that he refuses to refute. His image is a.) something people look up to, admire, or want to watch and b.) reflective of him, TeamLiquid, and all the according sponsors. That is what happens when you are someone with at least some importance. I am sorely disappointed that he didn't realize this and approach this situation much better, and I know that I am not alone. Something like this reflects badly upon his professional team and that is why it is subject to more scrutiny. If it didn't effect others then yes it wouldn't be an issue. But he is a representative of a brand and therefore yes I am influenced by this. I know that I am much less likely to want to watch his games for at least the short term simply because I wouldn't like the player.
1: Yes, famous people have been victims of paparazzis and lack of privacy for years. But isn't this pretty fucking horrible? I mean, in some instances you have dumb celebrities who want fame for the sake of being famous - and in that case they did give up their privacy. But for most celebrities, they are celebrities through being exceptionally good at something - and the fame and thus lack of privacy is something of a negative, unintended consequence. In fact, you might say that this sort of, gossipy behaviour, is in fact discouraging exceptionalism. And that, to me, is bad.
2: Just because something is good business, does not mean it should be encouraged. Weapons, prostitution and drugs make up three of the biggest industries in the world. While at least two out of these three might give you entertainment, I think we can largely agree that they contribute more bad than good.
3: The reason why you cannot be judgemental is that you are judging based on incomplete information. So far you have heard the story of one disgruntled part whom is obviously really biased, one part has not posted anything, and the third part has posted that not everything posted is true, but that he feels this is within his private sphere and that it is none of your concern. That should end it - it's none of your concern. Ret is a sc2 player, judge him based on that.
I think there's a difference between europe and usa in this aspect though, you have far more people who are famous for being famous, and with the exception of england, the right to privacy is far more respected in europe - unless someone's private actions are actually in direct conflict with their public persona, then I don't see how it matters at all.
Going forward however there are lessons to be learned. Forging e-sports into something that is actually respected though means that we really do need to avoid situations like this, for both the sport and the players. For the sport this just reflects badly. Yes it happens in established sports, but what kind of image do people get of e-sports when they hear of players acting like this? For Ret himself it even does have consequences. It's extremely unlikely but if he is in a close position with another player to get invited to a tournament couldn't the tournament sponsors decide to go with someone else to avoid a negative incident associated with the sponsors?
LMAO once again the "For the future of e-sports we just can't let this happen!" nonsense. Get a clue.
I think I can safely say that YOU ARE HURTING ESPORTS by laughing at that fine piece of post
what i don't understand is why so many people is concerned about "giving a good image". if something needs to be that polite and correct to reach the big audience, then maybe it's the big audiene who is being too hypocritical
i understand punk concerts (for example) not being acceptable for the big audience, but some lolsy affair between pros and groupies... i think the drama gives vitality and attractive to the scene, but maybe that's my wicked perception of things. anyways, i don't like u all morals paladins, imo u just contribute to make esports more boring.
On June 09 2011 07:17 Liquid`Drone wrote: Oh come on guys, some of you must have been blinded by years of media bs giving you a feeling of fucking entitlement. Ret doesn't owe any of you an explanation, because this entire issue is wholly irrelevant to everyone but three or four people. I can understand that this is a funny story and that it produces some entertainment value, but how are any of you influenced by this? You don't know what girl in question and ret talked about in private. you don't know what ex boyfriend and girl in question talked about in private. you don't know what ret's perception of girl in question and ex boyfriend's relationship status was. ret is by no means obliged to tell you either - his status as a professional starcraft two gamer does not mean that every aspect of his private life is up to scrutiny. enjoy the show if you want, but with the exception of ex-boyfriend, none of you have the right to be judgemental.
You can't really say that his private life should be staying private. "Famous" people (obviously I am using that term loosely as no SC2 player is really "famous" in north america) do not have the same expectation of privacy, at least in NA, as do the everyday person. There are no laws or anything regarding the matter.
The fact is that when you have many people who are your fans, or look up to you, then your personal behavior is subject to more scrutiny simply because you have more people watching what you do. The same is true for any sports star or actor, anything "personal" they do that reflects badly upon them is quite often found out by paparazzi and sold. Gossip, drama, etc is a good business.
Ret is by no means obliged to tell us anything but we absolutely have the right to be judgemental, especially if we are only given one side of a story that paints ret in a bad light that he refuses to refute. His image is a.) something people look up to, admire, or want to watch and b.) reflective of him, TeamLiquid, and all the according sponsors. That is what happens when you are someone with at least some importance. I am sorely disappointed that he didn't realize this and approach this situation much better, and I know that I am not alone. Something like this reflects badly upon his professional team and that is why it is subject to more scrutiny. If it didn't effect others then yes it wouldn't be an issue. But he is a representative of a brand and therefore yes I am influenced by this. I know that I am much less likely to want to watch his games for at least the short term simply because I wouldn't like the player.
1: Yes, famous people have been victims of paparazzis and lack of privacy for years. But isn't this pretty fucking horrible? I mean, in some instances you have dumb celebrities who want fame for the sake of being famous - and in that case they did give up their privacy. But for most celebrities, they are celebrities through being exceptionally good at something - and the fame and thus lack of privacy is something of a negative, unintended consequence. In fact, you might say that this sort of, gossipy behaviour, is in fact discouraging exceptionalism. And that, to me, is bad.
2: Just because something is good business, does not mean it should be encouraged. Weapons, prostitution and drugs make up three of the biggest industries in the world. While at least two out of these three might give you entertainment, I think we can largely agree that they contribute more bad than good.
3: The reason why you cannot be judgemental is that you are judging based on incomplete information. So far you have heard the story of one disgruntled part whom is obviously really biased, one part has not posted anything, and the third part has posted that not everything posted is true, but that he feels this is within his private sphere and that it is none of your concern. That should end it - it's none of your concern. Ret is a sc2 player, judge him based on that.
I think there's a difference between europe and usa in this aspect though, you have far more people who are famous for being famous, and with the exception of england, the right to privacy is far more respected in europe - unless someone's private actions are actually in direct conflict with their public persona, then I don't see how it matters at all.
Going forward however there are lessons to be learned. Forging e-sports into something that is actually respected though means that we really do need to avoid situations like this, for both the sport and the players. For the sport this just reflects badly. Yes it happens in established sports, but what kind of image do people get of e-sports when they hear of players acting like this? For Ret himself it even does have consequences. It's extremely unlikely but if he is in a close position with another player to get invited to a tournament couldn't the tournament sponsors decide to go with someone else to avoid a negative incident associated with the sponsors?
LMAO once again the "For the future of e-sports we just can't let this happen!" nonsense. Get a clue.
No u see u don''t realize now that this has happened hundreds of thousands of dollars wont be going to esports, prospective tourneys that were going to be the greatest have ceased, and companies have now shunned esports as a whole, the entire scene is gonna collapse within days!
On June 09 2011 07:17 Liquid`Drone wrote: Oh come on guys, some of you must have been blinded by years of media bs giving you a feeling of fucking entitlement. Ret doesn't owe any of you an explanation, because this entire issue is wholly irrelevant to everyone but three or four people. I can understand that this is a funny story and that it produces some entertainment value, but how are any of you influenced by this? You don't know what girl in question and ret talked about in private. you don't know what ex boyfriend and girl in question talked about in private. you don't know what ret's perception of girl in question and ex boyfriend's relationship status was. ret is by no means obliged to tell you either - his status as a professional starcraft two gamer does not mean that every aspect of his private life is up to scrutiny. enjoy the show if you want, but with the exception of ex-boyfriend, none of you have the right to be judgemental.
You can't really say that his private life should be staying private. "Famous" people (obviously I am using that term loosely as no SC2 player is really "famous" in north america) do not have the same expectation of privacy, at least in NA, as do the everyday person. There are no laws or anything regarding the matter.
The fact is that when you have many people who are your fans, or look up to you, then your personal behavior is subject to more scrutiny simply because you have more people watching what you do. The same is true for any sports star or actor, anything "personal" they do that reflects badly upon them is quite often found out by paparazzi and sold. Gossip, drama, etc is a good business.
Ret is by no means obliged to tell us anything but we absolutely have the right to be judgemental, especially if we are only given one side of a story that paints ret in a bad light that he refuses to refute. His image is a.) something people look up to, admire, or want to watch and b.) reflective of him, TeamLiquid, and all the according sponsors. That is what happens when you are someone with at least some importance. I am sorely disappointed that he didn't realize this and approach this situation much better, and I know that I am not alone. Something like this reflects badly upon his professional team and that is why it is subject to more scrutiny. If it didn't effect others then yes it wouldn't be an issue. But he is a representative of a brand and therefore yes I am influenced by this. I know that I am much less likely to want to watch his games for at least the short term simply because I wouldn't like the player.
1: Yes, famous people have been victims of paparazzis and lack of privacy for years. But isn't this pretty fucking horrible? I mean, in some instances you have dumb celebrities who want fame for the sake of being famous - and in that case they did give up their privacy. But for most celebrities, they are celebrities through being exceptionally good at something - and the fame and thus lack of privacy is something of a negative, unintended consequence. In fact, you might say that this sort of, gossipy behaviour, is in fact discouraging exceptionalism. And that, to me, is bad.
2: Just because something is good business, does not mean it should be encouraged. Weapons, prostitution and drugs make up three of the biggest industries in the world. While at least two out of these three might give you entertainment, I think we can largely agree that they contribute more bad than good.
3: The reason why you cannot be judgemental is that you are judging based on incomplete information. So far you have heard the story of one disgruntled part whom is obviously really biased, one part has not posted anything, and the third part has posted that not everything posted is true, but that he feels this is within his private sphere and that it is none of your concern. That should end it - it's none of your concern. Ret is a sc2 player, judge him based on that.
I think there's a difference between europe and usa in this aspect though, you have far more people who are famous for being famous, and with the exception of england, the right to privacy is far more respected in europe - unless someone's private actions are actually in direct conflict with their public persona, then I don't see how it matters at all.
Going forward however there are lessons to be learned. Forging e-sports into something that is actually respected though means that we really do need to avoid situations like this, for both the sport and the players. For the sport this just reflects badly. Yes it happens in established sports, but what kind of image do people get of e-sports when they hear of players acting like this? For Ret himself it even does have consequences. It's extremely unlikely but if he is in a close position with another player to get invited to a tournament couldn't the tournament sponsors decide to go with someone else to avoid a negative incident associated with the sponsors?
LMAO once again the "For the future of e-sports we just can't let this happen!" nonsense. Get a clue.
I think I can safely say that YOU ARE HURTING ESPORTS by laughing at that fine piece of post
Fine. I apologize for my actions in the past. No more pro-gaming gossip threads or anything ever. For E-SPORTS!
On June 09 2011 07:17 Liquid`Drone wrote: Oh come on guys, some of you must have been blinded by years of media bs giving you a feeling of fucking entitlement. Ret doesn't owe any of you an explanation, because this entire issue is wholly irrelevant to everyone but three or four people. I can understand that this is a funny story and that it produces some entertainment value, but how are any of you influenced by this? You don't know what girl in question and ret talked about in private. you don't know what ex boyfriend and girl in question talked about in private. you don't know what ret's perception of girl in question and ex boyfriend's relationship status was. ret is by no means obliged to tell you either - his status as a professional starcraft two gamer does not mean that every aspect of his private life is up to scrutiny. enjoy the show if you want, but with the exception of ex-boyfriend, none of you have the right to be judgemental.
You can't really say that his private life should be staying private. "Famous" people (obviously I am using that term loosely as no SC2 player is really "famous" in north america) do not have the same expectation of privacy, at least in NA, as do the everyday person. There are no laws or anything regarding the matter.
The fact is that when you have many people who are your fans, or look up to you, then your personal behavior is subject to more scrutiny simply because you have more people watching what you do. The same is true for any sports star or actor, anything "personal" they do that reflects badly upon them is quite often found out by paparazzi and sold. Gossip, drama, etc is a good business.
Ret is by no means obliged to tell us anything but we absolutely have the right to be judgemental, especially if we are only given one side of a story that paints ret in a bad light that he refuses to refute. His image is a.) something people look up to, admire, or want to watch and b.) reflective of him, TeamLiquid, and all the according sponsors. That is what happens when you are someone with at least some importance. I am sorely disappointed that he didn't realize this and approach this situation much better, and I know that I am not alone. Something like this reflects badly upon his professional team and that is why it is subject to more scrutiny. If it didn't effect others then yes it wouldn't be an issue. But he is a representative of a brand and therefore yes I am influenced by this. I know that I am much less likely to want to watch his games for at least the short term simply because I wouldn't like the player.
1: Yes, famous people have been victims of paparazzis and lack of privacy for years. But isn't this pretty fucking horrible? I mean, in some instances you have dumb celebrities who want fame for the sake of being famous - and in that case they did give up their privacy. But for most celebrities, they are celebrities through being exceptionally good at something - and the fame and thus lack of privacy is something of a negative, unintended consequence. In fact, you might say that this sort of, gossipy behaviour, is in fact discouraging exceptionalism. And that, to me, is bad.
2: Just because something is good business, does not mean it should be encouraged. Weapons, prostitution and drugs make up three of the biggest industries in the world. While at least two out of these three might give you entertainment, I think we can largely agree that they contribute more bad than good.
3: The reason why you cannot be judgemental is that you are judging based on incomplete information. So far you have heard the story of one disgruntled part whom is obviously really biased, one part has not posted anything, and the third part has posted that not everything posted is true, but that he feels this is within his private sphere and that it is none of your concern. That should end it - it's none of your concern. Ret is a sc2 player, judge him based on that.
I think there's a difference between europe and usa in this aspect though, you have far more people who are famous for being famous, and with the exception of england, the right to privacy is far more respected in europe - unless someone's private actions are actually in direct conflict with their public persona, then I don't see how it matters at all.
Going forward however there are lessons to be learned. Forging e-sports into something that is actually respected though means that we really do need to avoid situations like this, for both the sport and the players. For the sport this just reflects badly. Yes it happens in established sports, but what kind of image do people get of e-sports when they hear of players acting like this? For Ret himself it even does have consequences. It's extremely unlikely but if he is in a close position with another player to get invited to a tournament couldn't the tournament sponsors decide to go with someone else to avoid a negative incident associated with the sponsors?
LMAO once again the "For the future of e-sports we just can't let this happen!" nonsense. Get a clue.
I think I can safely say that YOU ARE HURTING ESPORTS by laughing at that fine piece of post
what i don't understand is why so many people is concerned about "giving a good image". if something needs to be that polite and correct to reach the big audience, then maybe it's the big audiene who is being too hypocritical
i understand punk concerts (for example) not being acceptable for the big audience, but some lolsy affair between pros and groupies... i think the drama gives vitality and attractive to the scene, but maybe that's my wicked perception of things. anyways, i don't like u all morals paladins, imo u just contribute to make esports more boring.
I think you forgot to turn on your sarcasm sensor, but i guess the signal from Spain is not optimal.
On June 09 2011 07:17 Liquid`Drone wrote: Oh come on guys, some of you must have been blinded by years of media bs giving you a feeling of fucking entitlement. Ret doesn't owe any of you an explanation, because this entire issue is wholly irrelevant to everyone but three or four people. I can understand that this is a funny story and that it produces some entertainment value, but how are any of you influenced by this? You don't know what girl in question and ret talked about in private. you don't know what ex boyfriend and girl in question talked about in private. you don't know what ret's perception of girl in question and ex boyfriend's relationship status was. ret is by no means obliged to tell you either - his status as a professional starcraft two gamer does not mean that every aspect of his private life is up to scrutiny. enjoy the show if you want, but with the exception of ex-boyfriend, none of you have the right to be judgemental.
You can't really say that his private life should be staying private. "Famous" people (obviously I am using that term loosely as no SC2 player is really "famous" in north america) do not have the same expectation of privacy, at least in NA, as do the everyday person. There are no laws or anything regarding the matter.
The fact is that when you have many people who are your fans, or look up to you, then your personal behavior is subject to more scrutiny simply because you have more people watching what you do. The same is true for any sports star or actor, anything "personal" they do that reflects badly upon them is quite often found out by paparazzi and sold. Gossip, drama, etc is a good business.
Ret is by no means obliged to tell us anything but we absolutely have the right to be judgemental, especially if we are only given one side of a story that paints ret in a bad light that he refuses to refute. His image is a.) something people look up to, admire, or want to watch and b.) reflective of him, TeamLiquid, and all the according sponsors. That is what happens when you are someone with at least some importance. I am sorely disappointed that he didn't realize this and approach this situation much better, and I know that I am not alone. Something like this reflects badly upon his professional team and that is why it is subject to more scrutiny. If it didn't effect others then yes it wouldn't be an issue. But he is a representative of a brand and therefore yes I am influenced by this. I know that I am much less likely to want to watch his games for at least the short term simply because I wouldn't like the player.
1: Yes, famous people have been victims of paparazzis and lack of privacy for years. But isn't this pretty fucking horrible? I mean, in some instances you have dumb celebrities who want fame for the sake of being famous - and in that case they did give up their privacy. But for most celebrities, they are celebrities through being exceptionally good at something - and the fame and thus lack of privacy is something of a negative, unintended consequence. In fact, you might say that this sort of, gossipy behaviour, is in fact discouraging exceptionalism. And that, to me, is bad.
2: Just because something is good business, does not mean it should be encouraged. Weapons, prostitution and drugs make up three of the biggest industries in the world. While at least two out of these three might give you entertainment, I think we can largely agree that they contribute more bad than good.
3: The reason why you cannot be judgemental is that you are judging based on incomplete information. So far you have heard the story of one disgruntled part whom is obviously really biased, one part has not posted anything, and the third part has posted that not everything posted is true, but that he feels this is within his private sphere and that it is none of your concern. That should end it - it's none of your concern. Ret is a sc2 player, judge him based on that.
I think there's a difference between europe and usa in this aspect though, you have far more people who are famous for being famous, and with the exception of england, the right to privacy is far more respected in europe - unless someone's private actions are actually in direct conflict with their public persona, then I don't see how it matters at all.
Going forward however there are lessons to be learned. Forging e-sports into something that is actually respected though means that we really do need to avoid situations like this, for both the sport and the players. For the sport this just reflects badly. Yes it happens in established sports, but what kind of image do people get of e-sports when they hear of players acting like this? For Ret himself it even does have consequences. It's extremely unlikely but if he is in a close position with another player to get invited to a tournament couldn't the tournament sponsors decide to go with someone else to avoid a negative incident associated with the sponsors?
LMAO once again the "For the future of e-sports we just can't let this happen!" nonsense. Get a clue.
I think I can safely say that YOU ARE HURTING ESPORTS by laughing at that fine piece of post
what i don't understand is why so many people is concerned about "giving a good image". if something needs to be that polite and correct to reach the big audience, then maybe it's the big audiene who is being too hypocritical
i understand punk concerts (for example) not being acceptable for the big audience, but some lolsy affair between pros and groupies... i think the drama gives vitality and attractive to the scene, but maybe that's my wicked perception of things. anyways, i don't like u all morals paladins, imo u just contribute to make esports more boring.
New teamliquid has a fascination with keeping everything as PC as possible, someone says the word rape HURTING ESPORTS, someone flips a guy off HURTING ESPORTS, someone says "sup bitches" HURTING ESPORTS, someone hooks up with some random slut HURTING ESPORTS.
Someone posts about hurting esports HURTING ESPORTS.
Ret, I love you man, and I really could care less about all the drama bullshit, but you have to see the potential problem in spending money to bring a girl all the way to Europe when you've only known her for less than a week.
On June 09 2011 07:17 Liquid`Drone wrote: Oh come on guys, some of you must have been blinded by years of media bs giving you a feeling of fucking entitlement. Ret doesn't owe any of you an explanation, because this entire issue is wholly irrelevant to everyone but three or four people. I can understand that this is a funny story and that it produces some entertainment value, but how are any of you influenced by this? You don't know what girl in question and ret talked about in private. you don't know what ex boyfriend and girl in question talked about in private. you don't know what ret's perception of girl in question and ex boyfriend's relationship status was. ret is by no means obliged to tell you either - his status as a professional starcraft two gamer does not mean that every aspect of his private life is up to scrutiny. enjoy the show if you want, but with the exception of ex-boyfriend, none of you have the right to be judgemental.
I agree for the most part. It's their private life, but it's kind of naive to think publicly talking about in the transparency of a forum isn't going to cause some people to throw in their opinions.
Personally I could care less about the whole thing, and I wouldn't really bother taking the time to type something for or against something that happened that has nothing to do with me personally.
There are however two things that stick out to me:
1. I like the fact that the mods aren't trying to cover the e-tracks here. Maybe as the sport becomes more popular people will think more about what they do in the spotlight or at a major event.
2. Speaking of major event, the part that DOES bother me about this, was that it was at MLG. I've talked to players that have made decent showing at these events, and they always tell me how it's a lot of fun and they generally drink a lot and have a good time. Well, that's fine I guess AFTER the event. In context to this story, it seems like a lot of this happened during the event.
Seriously, how can we talk about "pro-houses" and training to "cacth up with the koreans" when we can't keep it in our pants and focus seriously for just 3 fucking days? That just makes me sad. Really Sad.
Well w/e though.... on the lighter side of things, sounds like you found a real winner there Ret :/
Someone sounds a little jealous.
User was warned for this post
No, just disappointed really. So many people in the community are putting out all kinds of effort to grow the scene into a sport over here, and all too often we have to look at the players here at home and go "where's the beef"?
Can you remember the first MLG's that included SC2? I sure do. I can remember watching Incontrol sitting on the floor with a pillow amongst a crowd of 100~ people watching TT1-play Jinro on something pretty close to a standard sized LAN table. Now we have have an event with two decent streams and live attendees reaching +2000 people.
The interest has grown tremendously, the money seems to be there, but no one (not the majority at least) seems to want to want to commit to the "pro"fessional part about being or becoming a "pro"gamer. Reading a story like this just throws a little bit of salt in the wound is all (for the points I mentioned, not all this relationship/character judgement drama shit).
Seriously though. Chick realized she can fuck around to get free trips and stuff. Not uncommon. In the end, she's pretty pathetic so just laugh in her face and tell her to gtfo if she keeps bugging you. You sound young, move on.
If it was a serious relationship, I'm with Rekrul that someone would need to get hurt just out of principle, but you missed your chance (and it didn't sound really serious).
Either way, no one really cares and it will be forgotten soon. It's a dick move to go after someone else's girl but in this case she went after them and I'll give ret the benefit of the doubt that he didn't know she had a boyfriend.
P.S : I'm still finding it hilarious and disturbing that SC2 players have groupies. Even someone like CatZ rofl...
Obviously with the fact that ESports is growing is a pretty good idea that not much of the stuff thet say hurts esporsts is hurting esports. All the so called "Bad" words i think define this as a different way of think that as the younger people grow up will just be the norm. If you think about the words a decade a go that stood for "Bad" words are more or less just normal to say now. As for whats happening with ret or catz really i dont think either one will be affected by this once people leave alone and get bored with it which is tragic that they have to deal with the scrunity of people trying to dwell in there personal lives. Ret and catz are big boys now i am pretty sure they can take care of them selves if they feel need to pay for some ones flight or not or do what ever they can take care of themselves and if not pretty sure they have their own parents and friends that can help them with any advice they need. they dont need hundreds of people telling them what to do or how to do it or how their opinion is
I think Ret should tell us everything because I'm personally curious and I don't really care about his privacy. ... What? If we're being selfish here, might as well be transparent about it.
This thread has gone beyond hurting esports... LiquidRet you have personally broken e-sports.
no, really... this isn't that interesting. Jealous ex-bf, kinda slutty girl... the best thing to come out of the thread so far is this lil gem of a quote:
Coolest thing is, Thread title is still valid no matter which topic hehe...
No one would blink an eye if a girl broke up with her bf for a rockstar who decided to fly her around with him for a while. Don't you people see that your hurting e sports by reacting like this? If we cant even treat our top players like rock stars how will the mainstream media ever take us seriously?? Shame on all of you.
I find it amusing that this is happening in SC2 now. These kinds of antics end up having professional consequences for players sooner or later, and combined with the fact that pro SC2 players are not good at handling female attention has the brewing of a delicious concotion. It's also entertaining to read the desperate damage control posts which end up looking embarassing (Rekrul). Ret is free to do what he wants, but to brush it off as a simple groupie fling when you're taking the groupie half way across the world with you is lollerific.
On June 09 2011 09:09 Rinny wrote: No one would blink an eye if a girl broke up with her bf for a rockstar who decided to fly her around with him for a while. Don't you people see that your hurting e sports by reacting like this? If we cant even treat our top players like rock stars how will the mainstream media ever take us seriously?? Shame on all of you.
Hope that was extreme sarcasm. :D
How are groupie whores and naive pro-gamers what we want for our community? Ret trying to play it down so much is actually making it a bit worse.
Or hey maybe i'm totally wrong and they are madly in love, but I really doubt it.
On June 09 2011 09:14 AnalThermometer wrote: Ret is free to do what he wants, but to brush it off as a simple groupie fling when you're taking the groupie half way across the world with you is lollerific.
On June 09 2011 09:09 Rinny wrote: No one would blink an eye if a girl broke up with her bf for a rockstar who decided to fly her around with him for a while. Don't you people see that your hurting e sports by reacting like this? If we cant even treat our top players like rock stars how will the mainstream media ever take us seriously?? Shame on all of you.
for truth. all of these events are helping esports get mainstream, they're just helping us get up to speed with the rest of the world! Else, we'll forever remain a niche market. drugs sex bitches ! (and sex with bitches, even)
On June 09 2011 09:14 AnalThermometer wrote: I find it amusing that this is happening in SC2 now. These kinds of antics end up having professional consequences for players sooner or later, and combined with the fact that pro SC2 players are not good at handling female attention has the brewing of a delicious concotion. It's also entertaining to read the desperate damage control posts which end up looking embarassing (Rekrul). Ret is free to do what he wants, but to brush it off as a simple groupie fling when you're taking the groupie half way across the world with you is lollerific.
Eventhough this was an entertaining read I really don't get what all the drama is about. If everything OP said is true then OP should be glad he's rid of a girl like this (what did he really expect after trying to pimp her out on stream?) and as for Ret, well what he does is his own damn business. Eventhough I'd think twice if I was in his shoes.
On June 09 2011 09:32 XenoKai wrote: Can someone PLEASE make a scumbag steve meme with rets picture and post here and on reddit? it would be an instant classic
Memes are not allowed here. It'd be off-putting and a terrible joke, do it yourself.
On June 09 2011 09:32 XenoKai wrote: Can someone PLEASE make a scumbag steve meme with rets picture and post here and on reddit? it would be an instant classic
Memes are not allowed here. It'd be off-putting and a terrible joke, do it yourself.
?? i dont remember it saying anything in the OP about not allowing memes and last time i checked you are not a fucking mod BROSEF
On June 09 2011 07:02 ptbl wrote: I think Ret, Catz, and the girl is in the wrong. I feel sorry for the dude who got cheated on. As Ret said, there are two sides to a story, but when you have 10+witnesses from MLG confirming the cheated dude's story...
+1...
I was a fan of ret since BW but this is a bit too much...
On June 09 2011 07:00 Liquid`Ret wrote: Heh so many lies. In my skype conversation with you you messaged me from her skype after you got into her house I had just found out that you posted on reddit. I didn't know I was doing something so terrible I thought you guys broke up on friday, which technically you did! but I have also heard about some fucked up shit you did. You seem to be enjoying the attention thought but this is really none of anyones business its only between the people involved so I don't want to go and explain myself here on a forum.
If you've done nothing wrong then why not explain yourself? You owe it to your fans...
He doesn't owe shit to anyone.
I'm going to have to disagree
Without fans, a pro is nothing
Without fans, there is not a pro that would be where they are today
It could be argued that pros owe EVERYTHING to fans
At the end of the day, it basically comes down to the fans...
Being good at the game = gets you more fans Winning championships = gets you more fans
Why do teams sponsor players? So they preform well and promote their products to their fans and fans of whatever the player is participating in.
They are tons of people that are better than some low tier pros but just don't have a large fan base. Why is it that the popular players get teams/sponsorships even though they aren't as skilled as some other people? The fans...
The "oh they don't owe you shit" attitude is the attitude that people take when they take fame for granted and forget that the fans got them where they are today
Am I saying that he has to answer every single little question we have? Of course not. It's fully within his rights to refuse to elucidate the situation. But he's putting his fans in a difficult position when one party presents some hard evidence [skype conversation+eye witnesses is pretty incriminating] and he answers with vague answers.
On June 09 2011 07:02 ptbl wrote: I think Ret, Catz, and the girl is in the wrong. I feel sorry for the dude who got cheated on. As Ret said, there are two sides to a story, but when you have 10+witnesses from MLG confirming the cheated dude's story...
+1...
I was a fan of ret since BW but this is a bit too much...
On June 09 2011 07:00 Liquid`Ret wrote: Heh so many lies. In my skype conversation with you you messaged me from her skype after you got into her house I had just found out that you posted on reddit. I didn't know I was doing something so terrible I thought you guys broke up on friday, which technically you did! but I have also heard about some fucked up shit you did. You seem to be enjoying the attention thought but this is really none of anyones business its only between the people involved so I don't want to go and explain myself here on a forum.
If you've done nothing wrong then why not explain yourself? You owe it to your fans...
He doesn't owe shit to anyone.
I'm going to have to disagree
Without fans, a pro is nothing
Without fans, there is not a pro that would be where they are today
It could be argued that pros owe EVERYTHING to fans
At the end of the day, it basically comes down to the fans...
Being good at the game = gets you more fans Winning championships = gets you more fans
Why do teams sponsor players? So they preform well and promote their products to their fans and fans of whatever the player is participating in.
They are tons of people that are better than some low tier pros but just don't have a large fan base. Why is it that the popular players get teams/sponsorships even though they aren't as skilled as some other people? The fans...
The "oh they don't owe you shit" attitude is the attitude that people take when they take fame for granted and forget that the fans got them where they are today
Am I saying that he has to answer every single little question we have? Of course not. It's fully within his rights to refuse to elucidate the situation. But he's putting his fans in a difficult position when one party presents some hard evidence [skype conversation+eye witnesses is pretty incriminating] and he answers with vague answers.
can someone close this thread now plz my head is going to explode
On June 09 2011 09:32 XenoKai wrote: Can someone PLEASE make a scumbag steve meme with rets picture and post here and on reddit? it would be an instant classic
Memes are not allowed here. It'd be off-putting and a terrible joke, do it yourself.
?? i dont remember it saying anything in the OP about not allowing memes and last time i checked you are not a fucking mod BROSEF
On September 13 2004 22:42 mensrea wrote: [*] Memes, even TL ones, are annoying. Don't 1a2a3a your way to posting over 9000 memes -- we will ban you. There are plenty of places to go if you want to see posters of people failing at things or a humorous caption appended to a photograph of a cat. TeamLiquid is not one of those places.
TL commandments... Please read it before posting...
Also, please respect your fellow forum mates
@rekrul: Okay, then please point out where I've made my errors in judgements. I'm willing to admit that I've made a mistake if you tell me where it is.
On June 09 2011 07:02 ptbl wrote: I think Ret, Catz, and the girl is in the wrong. I feel sorry for the dude who got cheated on. As Ret said, there are two sides to a story, but when you have 10+witnesses from MLG confirming the cheated dude's story...
+1...
I was a fan of ret since BW but this is a bit too much...
On June 09 2011 07:00 Liquid`Ret wrote: Heh so many lies. In my skype conversation with you you messaged me from her skype after you got into her house I had just found out that you posted on reddit. I didn't know I was doing something so terrible I thought you guys broke up on friday, which technically you did! but I have also heard about some fucked up shit you did. You seem to be enjoying the attention thought but this is really none of anyones business its only between the people involved so I don't want to go and explain myself here on a forum.
If you've done nothing wrong then why not explain yourself? You owe it to your fans...
He doesn't owe shit to anyone.
I'm going to have to disagree
Without fans, a pro is nothing
Without fans, there is not a pro that would be where they are today
It could be argued that pros owe EVERYTHING to fans
At the end of the day, it basically comes down to the fans...
Being good at the game = gets you more fans Winning championships = gets you more fans
Why do teams sponsor players? So they preform well and promote their products to their fans and fans of whatever the player is participating in.
They are tons of people that are better than some low tier pros but just don't have a large fan base. Why is it that the popular players get teams/sponsorships even though they aren't as skilled as some other people? The fans...
The "oh they don't owe you shit" attitude is the attitude that people take when they take fame for granted and forget that the fans got them where they are today
Am I saying that he has to answer every single little question we have? Of course not. It's fully within his rights to refuse to elucidate the situation. But he's putting his fans in a difficult position when one party presents some hard evidence [skype conversation+eye witnesses is pretty incriminating] and he answers with vague answers.
still they don't owe fans shit. if fans found that the behavior unacceptable then they should feel free to stop being a fan. pros in turn face the consequences of having less fans, if that really happens.
On June 09 2011 09:32 XenoKai wrote: Can someone PLEASE make a scumbag steve meme with rets picture and post here and on reddit? it would be an instant classic
Memes are not allowed here. It'd be off-putting and a terrible joke, do it yourself.
?? i dont remember it saying anything in the OP about not allowing memes and last time i checked you are not a fucking mod BROSEF
On September 13 2004 22:42 mensrea wrote: [*] Memes, even TL ones, are annoying. Don't 1a2a3a your way to posting over 9000 memes -- we will ban you. There are plenty of places to go if you want to see posters of people failing at things or a humorous caption appended to a photograph of a cat. TeamLiquid is not one of those places.
TL commandments... Please read it before posting...
Also, please respect your fellow forum mates
@rekrul: Okay, then please point out where I've made my errors in judgements. I'm willing to admit that I've made a mistake if you tell me where it is.
the only thing a progamer owes to his fans is to try his hardest to give them great games to watch
imo if the progamers really cared about the fans they'd give us more drama ^_^ -->drama sparks interest, interest drives the industry
On June 09 2011 07:02 ptbl wrote: I think Ret, Catz, and the girl is in the wrong. I feel sorry for the dude who got cheated on. As Ret said, there are two sides to a story, but when you have 10+witnesses from MLG confirming the cheated dude's story...
+1...
I was a fan of ret since BW but this is a bit too much...
On June 09 2011 07:00 Liquid`Ret wrote: Heh so many lies. In my skype conversation with you you messaged me from her skype after you got into her house I had just found out that you posted on reddit. I didn't know I was doing something so terrible I thought you guys broke up on friday, which technically you did! but I have also heard about some fucked up shit you did. You seem to be enjoying the attention thought but this is really none of anyones business its only between the people involved so I don't want to go and explain myself here on a forum.
If you've done nothing wrong then why not explain yourself? You owe it to your fans...
He doesn't owe shit to anyone.
I'm going to have to disagree
Without fans, a pro is nothing
Without fans, there is not a pro that would be where they are today
It could be argued that pros owe EVERYTHING to fans
At the end of the day, it basically comes down to the fans...
Being good at the game = gets you more fans Winning championships = gets you more fans
Why do teams sponsor players? So they preform well and promote their products to their fans and fans of whatever the player is participating in. They are tons of people that are better than some low tier pros but just don't have a large fan base. Why is it that the popular players get teams/sponsorships even though they aren't as skilled as some other people? The fans...
The "oh they don't owe you shit" attitude is the attitude that people take when they take fame for granted and forget that the fans got them where they are today
Am I saying that he has to answer every single little question we have? Of course not. It's fully within his rights to refuse to elucidate the situation. But he's putting his fans in a difficult position when one party presents some hard evidence [skype conversation+eye witnesses is pretty incriminating] and he answers with vague answers.
I bolded everything that didn't make sense in your post. For starters, how you think pros need fans to be what they are is beyond comprehension.
Edit: I edited leniency because some things do make sense in the end.
On June 09 2011 07:17 Liquid`Drone wrote: Oh come on guys, some of you must have been blinded by years of media bs giving you a feeling of fucking entitlement. Ret doesn't owe any of you an explanation, because this entire issue is wholly irrelevant to everyone but three or four people. I can understand that this is a funny story and that it produces some entertainment value, but how are any of you influenced by this? You don't know what girl in question and ret talked about in private. you don't know what ex boyfriend and girl in question talked about in private. you don't know what ret's perception of girl in question and ex boyfriend's relationship status was. ret is by no means obliged to tell you either - his status as a professional starcraft two gamer does not mean that every aspect of his private life is up to scrutiny. enjoy the show if you want, but with the exception of ex-boyfriend, none of you have the right to be judgemental.
You can't really say that his private life should be staying private. "Famous" people (obviously I am using that term loosely as no SC2 player is really "famous" in north america) do not have the same expectation of privacy, at least in NA, as do the everyday person. There are no laws or anything regarding the matter.
The fact is that when you have many people who are your fans, or look up to you, then your personal behavior is subject to more scrutiny simply because you have more people watching what you do. The same is true for any sports star or actor, anything "personal" they do that reflects badly upon them is quite often found out by paparazzi and sold. Gossip, drama, etc is a good business.
Ret is by no means obliged to tell us anything but we absolutely have the right to be judgemental, especially if we are only given one side of a story that paints ret in a bad light that he refuses to refute. His image is a.) something people look up to, admire, or want to watch and b.) reflective of him, TeamLiquid, and all the according sponsors. That is what happens when you are someone with at least some importance. I am sorely disappointed that he didn't realize this and approach this situation much better, and I know that I am not alone. Something like this reflects badly upon his professional team and that is why it is subject to more scrutiny. If it didn't effect others then yes it wouldn't be an issue. But he is a representative of a brand and therefore yes I am influenced by this. I know that I am much less likely to want to watch his games for at least the short term simply because I wouldn't like the player.
1: Yes, famous people have been victims of paparazzis and lack of privacy for years. But isn't this pretty fucking horrible? I mean, in some instances you have dumb celebrities who want fame for the sake of being famous - and in that case they did give up their privacy. But for most celebrities, they are celebrities through being exceptionally good at something - and the fame and thus lack of privacy is something of a negative, unintended consequence. In fact, you might say that this sort of, gossipy behaviour, is in fact discouraging exceptionalism. And that, to me, is bad.
2: Just because something is good business, does not mean it should be encouraged. Weapons, prostitution and drugs make up three of the biggest industries in the world. While at least two out of these three might give you entertainment, I think we can largely agree that they contribute more bad than good.
3: The reason why you cannot be judgemental is that you are judging based on incomplete information. So far you have heard the story of one disgruntled part whom is obviously really biased, one part has not posted anything, and the third part has posted that not everything posted is true, but that he feels this is within his private sphere and that it is none of your concern. That should end it - it's none of your concern. Ret is a sc2 player, judge him based on that.
I think there's a difference between europe and usa in this aspect though, you have far more people who are famous for being famous, and with the exception of england, the right to privacy is far more respected in europe - unless someone's private actions are actually in direct conflict with their public persona, then I don't see how it matters at all.
Going forward however there are lessons to be learned. Forging e-sports into something that is actually respected though means that we really do need to avoid situations like this, for both the sport and the players. For the sport this just reflects badly. Yes it happens in established sports, but what kind of image do people get of e-sports when they hear of players acting like this? For Ret himself it even does have consequences. It's extremely unlikely but if he is in a close position with another player to get invited to a tournament couldn't the tournament sponsors decide to go with someone else to avoid a negative incident associated with the sponsors?
LMAO once again the "For the future of e-sports we just can't let this happen!" nonsense. Get a clue.
Amen.
Seriously, the "E-Sports" card is getting old.
I'm sorry if this is a bit off topic but how the FUCK DO YOU HAVE 1100 posts in one week my god.
On June 09 2011 07:02 ptbl wrote: I think Ret, Catz, and the girl is in the wrong. I feel sorry for the dude who got cheated on. As Ret said, there are two sides to a story, but when you have 10+witnesses from MLG confirming the cheated dude's story...
+1...
I was a fan of ret since BW but this is a bit too much...
On June 09 2011 07:00 Liquid`Ret wrote: Heh so many lies. In my skype conversation with you you messaged me from her skype after you got into her house I had just found out that you posted on reddit. I didn't know I was doing something so terrible I thought you guys broke up on friday, which technically you did! but I have also heard about some fucked up shit you did. You seem to be enjoying the attention thought but this is really none of anyones business its only between the people involved so I don't want to go and explain myself here on a forum.
If you've done nothing wrong then why not explain yourself? You owe it to your fans...
He doesn't owe shit to anyone.
I'm going to have to disagree
Without fans, a pro is nothing
Without fans, there is not a pro that would be where they are today
It could be argued that pros owe EVERYTHING to fans
At the end of the day, it basically comes down to the fans...
Being good at the game = gets you more fans Winning championships = gets you more fans
Why do teams sponsor players? So they preform well and promote their products to their fans and fans of whatever the player is participating in. They are tons of people that are better than some low tier pros but just don't have a large fan base. Why is it that the popular players get teams/sponsorships even though they aren't as skilled as some other people? The fans...
The "oh they don't owe you shit" attitude is the attitude that people take when they take fame for granted and forget that the fans got them where they are today
Am I saying that he has to answer every single little question we have? Of course not. It's fully within his rights to refuse to elucidate the situation. But he's putting his fans in a difficult position when one party presents some hard evidence [skype conversation+eye witnesses is pretty incriminating] and he answers with vague answers.
I bolded everything that didn't make sense in your post. For starters, how you think pros need fans to be what they are is beyond comprehension.
Edit: I edited leniency because some things do make sense in the end.
Okay, I'll go through it line by line then
Without fans, a pro is nothing <- main argument
Without fans, there is not a pro that would be where they are today <- By disagreeing with these statement, you're suggesting that fans are a complete nonfactor in a pro's success. I've avoided giving specific examples of people that have become successful purely through fans because I don't like naming specific people in public. PM me and I will give you a list. I can also give you a list of people who have not been successful because of the lack of fans but are skilled enough.
It could be argued that pros owe EVERYTHING to fans <- Pros need to make livings. In order to make a living, you need a sponsor/team. What are sponsors looking for? Someone with a large fan following to promote their products. There are reasons why unknown people are not sponsored by big names. It's not a concrete rule but there's a huge correlation between fanbase and sponsorships.
Big example here: Boxer. Is he as good as MVP/MC? Nope. But he gets a private sponsor because of his fanbase. [Yes I realize I named a specific example]
At the end of the day, it basically comes down to the fans...
Being good at the game = gets you more fans Winning championships = gets you more fans
Why do teams sponsor players? So they preform well and promote their products to their fans and fans of whatever the player is participating in.
<- Well, you said these lines make sense so I'll skip it.
They are tons of people that are better than some low tier pros but just don't have a large fan base. Why is it that the popular players get teams/sponsorships even though they aren't as skilled as some other people? The fans...
<- Again, see boxer example.
The "oh they don't owe you shit" attitude is the attitude that people take when they take fame for granted and forget that the fans got them where they are today <- This is an opinion, I can see how you would not be able to see it my way.
Am I saying that he has to answer every single little question we have? Of course not. It's fully within his rights to refuse to elucidate the situation. But he's putting his fans in a difficult position when one party presents some hard evidence [skype conversation+eye witnesses is pretty incriminating] and he answers with vague answers. <- I'm not sure what you're saying "doesn't make sense" so I'll discuss both parts of this one
Am I saying that he has to answer every single little question we have? Of course not. It's fully within his rights to refuse to elucidate the situation. <- This doesn't make sense? So he has to answer to the situation? Bolding this makes me feel like you just skimmed and didn't really think about what I wrote.
But he's putting his fans in a difficult position when one party presents some hard evidence [skype conversation+eye witnesses is pretty incriminating] and he answers with vague answers. <-Are you saying it's not hard on the fans to see one of their favorite players potentially in this light?
You realize that saying "this doesn't make sense" and not pointing out any logical fallacies is not debating or proving anything at all?
On June 09 2011 07:17 Liquid`Drone wrote: Oh come on guys, some of you must have been blinded by years of media bs giving you a feeling of fucking entitlement. Ret doesn't owe any of you an explanation, because this entire issue is wholly irrelevant to everyone but three or four people. I can understand that this is a funny story and that it produces some entertainment value, but how are any of you influenced by this? You don't know what girl in question and ret talked about in private. you don't know what ex boyfriend and girl in question talked about in private. you don't know what ret's perception of girl in question and ex boyfriend's relationship status was. ret is by no means obliged to tell you either - his status as a professional starcraft two gamer does not mean that every aspect of his private life is up to scrutiny. enjoy the show if you want, but with the exception of ex-boyfriend, none of you have the right to be judgemental.
You can't really say that his private life should be staying private. "Famous" people (obviously I am using that term loosely as no SC2 player is really "famous" in north america) do not have the same expectation of privacy, at least in NA, as do the everyday person. There are no laws or anything regarding the matter.
The fact is that when you have many people who are your fans, or look up to you, then your personal behavior is subject to more scrutiny simply because you have more people watching what you do. The same is true for any sports star or actor, anything "personal" they do that reflects badly upon them is quite often found out by paparazzi and sold. Gossip, drama, etc is a good business.
Ret is by no means obliged to tell us anything but we absolutely have the right to be judgemental, especially if we are only given one side of a story that paints ret in a bad light that he refuses to refute. His image is a.) something people look up to, admire, or want to watch and b.) reflective of him, TeamLiquid, and all the according sponsors. That is what happens when you are someone with at least some importance. I am sorely disappointed that he didn't realize this and approach this situation much better, and I know that I am not alone. Something like this reflects badly upon his professional team and that is why it is subject to more scrutiny. If it didn't effect others then yes it wouldn't be an issue. But he is a representative of a brand and therefore yes I am influenced by this. I know that I am much less likely to want to watch his games for at least the short term simply because I wouldn't like the player.
1: Yes, famous people have been victims of paparazzis and lack of privacy for years. But isn't this pretty fucking horrible? I mean, in some instances you have dumb celebrities who want fame for the sake of being famous - and in that case they did give up their privacy. But for most celebrities, they are celebrities through being exceptionally good at something - and the fame and thus lack of privacy is something of a negative, unintended consequence. In fact, you might say that this sort of, gossipy behaviour, is in fact discouraging exceptionalism. And that, to me, is bad.
2: Just because something is good business, does not mean it should be encouraged. Weapons, prostitution and drugs make up three of the biggest industries in the world. While at least two out of these three might give you entertainment, I think we can largely agree that they contribute more bad than good.
3: The reason why you cannot be judgemental is that you are judging based on incomplete information. So far you have heard the story of one disgruntled part whom is obviously really biased, one part has not posted anything, and the third part has posted that not everything posted is true, but that he feels this is within his private sphere and that it is none of your concern. That should end it - it's none of your concern. Ret is a sc2 player, judge him based on that.
I think there's a difference between europe and usa in this aspect though, you have far more people who are famous for being famous, and with the exception of england, the right to privacy is far more respected in europe - unless someone's private actions are actually in direct conflict with their public persona, then I don't see how it matters at all.
Going forward however there are lessons to be learned. Forging e-sports into something that is actually respected though means that we really do need to avoid situations like this, for both the sport and the players. For the sport this just reflects badly. Yes it happens in established sports, but what kind of image do people get of e-sports when they hear of players acting like this? For Ret himself it even does have consequences. It's extremely unlikely but if he is in a close position with another player to get invited to a tournament couldn't the tournament sponsors decide to go with someone else to avoid a negative incident associated with the sponsors?
LMAO once again the "For the future of e-sports we just can't let this happen!" nonsense. Get a clue.
Amen.
Seriously, the "E-Sports" card is getting old.
I'm sorry if this is a bit off topic but how the FUCK DO YOU HAVE 1100 posts in one week my god.
Don't worry, I've been meaning to ask the same thing. I saw him at 5200 posts sometime during the MLG LR thread and noticed his post count earlier today and went "wtf".
On June 09 2011 07:02 ptbl wrote: I think Ret, Catz, and the girl is in the wrong. I feel sorry for the dude who got cheated on. As Ret said, there are two sides to a story, but when you have 10+witnesses from MLG confirming the cheated dude's story...
+1...
I was a fan of ret since BW but this is a bit too much...
On June 09 2011 07:00 Liquid`Ret wrote: Heh so many lies. In my skype conversation with you you messaged me from her skype after you got into her house I had just found out that you posted on reddit. I didn't know I was doing something so terrible I thought you guys broke up on friday, which technically you did! but I have also heard about some fucked up shit you did. You seem to be enjoying the attention thought but this is really none of anyones business its only between the people involved so I don't want to go and explain myself here on a forum.
If you've done nothing wrong then why not explain yourself? You owe it to your fans...
He doesn't owe shit to anyone.
I'm going to have to disagree
Without fans, a pro is nothing
Without fans, there is not a pro that would be where they are today
It could be argued that pros owe EVERYTHING to fans
At the end of the day, it basically comes down to the fans...
Being good at the game = gets you more fans Winning championships = gets you more fans
Why do teams sponsor players? So they preform well and promote their products to their fans and fans of whatever the player is participating in. They are tons of people that are better than some low tier pros but just don't have a large fan base. Why is it that the popular players get teams/sponsorships even though they aren't as skilled as some other people? The fans...
The "oh they don't owe you shit" attitude is the attitude that people take when they take fame for granted and forget that the fans got them where they are today
Am I saying that he has to answer every single little question we have? Of course not. It's fully within his rights to refuse to elucidate the situation. But he's putting his fans in a difficult position when one party presents some hard evidence [skype conversation+eye witnesses is pretty incriminating] and he answers with vague answers.
I bolded everything that didn't make sense in your post. For starters, how you think pros need fans to be what they are is beyond comprehension.
Edit: I edited leniency because some things do make sense in the end.
Without fans, there is not a pro that would be where they are today <- By disagreeing with these statement, you're suggesting that fans are a complete nonfactor in a pro's success. I've avoided giving specific examples of people that have become successful purely through fans because I don't like naming specific people in public. PM me and I will give you a list. I can also give you a list of people who have not been successful because of the lack of fans but are skilled enough.
It could be argued that pros owe EVERYTHING to fans <- Pros need to make livings. In order to make a living, you need a sponsor/team. What are sponsors looking for? Someone with a large fan following to promote their products. There are reasons why unknown people are not sponsored by big names. It's not a concrete rule but there's a huge correlation between fanbase and sponsorships.
Big example here: Boxer. Is he as good as MVP/MC? Nope. But he gets a private sponsor because of his fanbase. [Yes I realize I named a specific example]
At the end of the day, it basically comes down to the fans...
Being good at the game = gets you more fans Winning championships = gets you more fans
Why do teams sponsor players? So they preform well and promote their products to their fans and fans of whatever the player is participating in.
<- Well, you said these lines make sense so I'll skip it.
They are tons of people that are better than some low tier pros but just don't have a large fan base. Why is it that the popular players get teams/sponsorships even though they aren't as skilled as some other people? The fans...
<- Again, see boxer example.
The "oh they don't owe you shit" attitude is the attitude that people take when they take fame for granted and forget that the fans got them where they are today <- This is an opinion, I can see how you would not be able to see it my way.
Am I saying that he has to answer every single little question we have? Of course not. It's fully within his rights to refuse to elucidate the situation. But he's putting his fans in a difficult position when one party presents some hard evidence [skype conversation+eye witnesses is pretty incriminating] and he answers with vague answers. <- I'm not sure what you're saying "doesn't make sense" so I'll discuss both parts of this one
Am I saying that he has to answer every single little question we have? Of course not. It's fully within his rights to refuse to elucidate the situation. <- This doesn't make sense? So he has to answer to the situation? Bolding this makes me feel like you just skimmed and didn't really think about what I wrote.
But he's putting his fans in a difficult position when one party presents some hard evidence [skype conversation+eye witnesses is pretty incriminating] and he answers with vague answers. <-Are you saying it's not hard on the fans to see one of their favorite players potentially in this light?
You realize that saying "this doesn't make sense" and not pointing out any logical fallacies is not debating or proving anything at all?
On June 09 2011 07:17 Liquid`Drone wrote: Oh come on guys, some of you must have been blinded by years of media bs giving you a feeling of fucking entitlement. Ret doesn't owe any of you an explanation, because this entire issue is wholly irrelevant to everyone but three or four people. I can understand that this is a funny story and that it produces some entertainment value, but how are any of you influenced by this? You don't know what girl in question and ret talked about in private. you don't know what ex boyfriend and girl in question talked about in private. you don't know what ret's perception of girl in question and ex boyfriend's relationship status was. ret is by no means obliged to tell you either - his status as a professional starcraft two gamer does not mean that every aspect of his private life is up to scrutiny. enjoy the show if you want, but with the exception of ex-boyfriend, none of you have the right to be judgemental.
You can't really say that his private life should be staying private. "Famous" people (obviously I am using that term loosely as no SC2 player is really "famous" in north america) do not have the same expectation of privacy, at least in NA, as do the everyday person. There are no laws or anything regarding the matter.
The fact is that when you have many people who are your fans, or look up to you, then your personal behavior is subject to more scrutiny simply because you have more people watching what you do. The same is true for any sports star or actor, anything "personal" they do that reflects badly upon them is quite often found out by paparazzi and sold. Gossip, drama, etc is a good business.
Ret is by no means obliged to tell us anything but we absolutely have the right to be judgemental, especially if we are only given one side of a story that paints ret in a bad light that he refuses to refute. His image is a.) something people look up to, admire, or want to watch and b.) reflective of him, TeamLiquid, and all the according sponsors. That is what happens when you are someone with at least some importance. I am sorely disappointed that he didn't realize this and approach this situation much better, and I know that I am not alone. Something like this reflects badly upon his professional team and that is why it is subject to more scrutiny. If it didn't effect others then yes it wouldn't be an issue. But he is a representative of a brand and therefore yes I am influenced by this. I know that I am much less likely to want to watch his games for at least the short term simply because I wouldn't like the player.
1: Yes, famous people have been victims of paparazzis and lack of privacy for years. But isn't this pretty fucking horrible? I mean, in some instances you have dumb celebrities who want fame for the sake of being famous - and in that case they did give up their privacy. But for most celebrities, they are celebrities through being exceptionally good at something - and the fame and thus lack of privacy is something of a negative, unintended consequence. In fact, you might say that this sort of, gossipy behaviour, is in fact discouraging exceptionalism. And that, to me, is bad.
2: Just because something is good business, does not mean it should be encouraged. Weapons, prostitution and drugs make up three of the biggest industries in the world. While at least two out of these three might give you entertainment, I think we can largely agree that they contribute more bad than good.
3: The reason why you cannot be judgemental is that you are judging based on incomplete information. So far you have heard the story of one disgruntled part whom is obviously really biased, one part has not posted anything, and the third part has posted that not everything posted is true, but that he feels this is within his private sphere and that it is none of your concern. That should end it - it's none of your concern. Ret is a sc2 player, judge him based on that.
I think there's a difference between europe and usa in this aspect though, you have far more people who are famous for being famous, and with the exception of england, the right to privacy is far more respected in europe - unless someone's private actions are actually in direct conflict with their public persona, then I don't see how it matters at all.
Going forward however there are lessons to be learned. Forging e-sports into something that is actually respected though means that we really do need to avoid situations like this, for both the sport and the players. For the sport this just reflects badly. Yes it happens in established sports, but what kind of image do people get of e-sports when they hear of players acting like this? For Ret himself it even does have consequences. It's extremely unlikely but if he is in a close position with another player to get invited to a tournament couldn't the tournament sponsors decide to go with someone else to avoid a negative incident associated with the sponsors?
LMAO once again the "For the future of e-sports we just can't let this happen!" nonsense. Get a clue.
Amen.
Seriously, the "E-Sports" card is getting old.
I'm sorry if this is a bit off topic but how the FUCK DO YOU HAVE 1100 posts in one week my god.
Don't worry, I've been meaning to ask the same thing. I saw him at 5200 posts sometime during the MLG LR thread and noticed his post count earlier today and went "wtf".
I've seen Torte De Lini with like 2k posts just months ago, is this guy on drugs or something? He posts like 200 times PER DAY
On June 09 2011 07:02 ptbl wrote: I think Ret, Catz, and the girl is in the wrong. I feel sorry for the dude who got cheated on. As Ret said, there are two sides to a story, but when you have 10+witnesses from MLG confirming the cheated dude's story...
+1...
I was a fan of ret since BW but this is a bit too much...
On June 09 2011 07:00 Liquid`Ret wrote: Heh so many lies. In my skype conversation with you you messaged me from her skype after you got into her house I had just found out that you posted on reddit. I didn't know I was doing something so terrible I thought you guys broke up on friday, which technically you did! but I have also heard about some fucked up shit you did. You seem to be enjoying the attention thought but this is really none of anyones business its only between the people involved so I don't want to go and explain myself here on a forum.
If you've done nothing wrong then why not explain yourself? You owe it to your fans...
He doesn't owe shit to anyone.
I'm going to have to disagree
Without fans, a pro is nothing
Without fans, there is not a pro that would be where they are today
It could be argued that pros owe EVERYTHING to fans
At the end of the day, it basically comes down to the fans...
Being good at the game = gets you more fans Winning championships = gets you more fans
Why do teams sponsor players? So they preform well and promote their products to their fans and fans of whatever the player is participating in.
They are tons of people that are better than some low tier pros but just don't have a large fan base. Why is it that the popular players get teams/sponsorships even though they aren't as skilled as some other people? The fans...
The "oh they don't owe you shit" attitude is the attitude that people take when they take fame for granted and forget that the fans got them where they are today
Am I saying that he has to answer every single little question we have? Of course not. It's fully within his rights to refuse to elucidate the situation. But he's putting his fans in a difficult position when one party presents some hard evidence [skype conversation+eye witnesses is pretty incriminating] and he answers with vague answers.
can someone close this thread now plz my head is going to explode
On June 09 2011 08:34 Vansetsu wrote: Can you remember the first MLG's that included SC2? I sure do. I can remember watching Incontrol sitting on the floor with a pillow amongst a crowd of 100~ people watching TT1-play Jinro on something pretty close to a standard sized LAN table. Now we have have an event with two decent streams and live attendees reaching +2000 people.
Pretty sure Jinro wasn't at the first MLG that included SC2?
Jos is a moron for going with a girl, and buying a plane ticket, he knows for maybe... What? ONE week? Maybe less? Every guy knows it when a girl is after your money whatever you want to call it. and I deriously doubt that she is going to be with you because she loves you so much. There is nothing wrong with a bit of casual flirting and getting laid, but shit Jos, aren't you taking this way too serious? Is it that cliché 'Love at first sight' shit? Pfrt.. I'm shocked to be Honest.
On the other hand: if it's Really cool between you two, which I doubt, I wish you all the best. But remember: she has a nice record of shit she has pulled off. Imo she is just a borderliner.
I am dying here at the "don't hook up for the good of ESPORTS" argument. Wow, hahaha. TL needs a smiley with aviators and the ESPORTS tshirt on. Get on that Kennigit.
On June 09 2011 07:02 ptbl wrote: I think Ret, Catz, and the girl is in the wrong. I feel sorry for the dude who got cheated on. As Ret said, there are two sides to a story, but when you have 10+witnesses from MLG confirming the cheated dude's story...
+1...
I was a fan of ret since BW but this is a bit too much...
On June 09 2011 07:00 Liquid`Ret wrote: Heh so many lies. In my skype conversation with you you messaged me from her skype after you got into her house I had just found out that you posted on reddit. I didn't know I was doing something so terrible I thought you guys broke up on friday, which technically you did! but I have also heard about some fucked up shit you did. You seem to be enjoying the attention thought but this is really none of anyones business its only between the people involved so I don't want to go and explain myself here on a forum.
If you've done nothing wrong then why not explain yourself? You owe it to your fans...
He doesn't owe shit to anyone.
I'm going to have to disagree
Without fans, a pro is nothing
Without fans, there is not a pro that would be where they are today
It could be argued that pros owe EVERYTHING to fans
At the end of the day, it basically comes down to the fans...
Being good at the game = gets you more fans Winning championships = gets you more fans
Why do teams sponsor players? So they preform well and promote their products to their fans and fans of whatever the player is participating in. They are tons of people that are better than some low tier pros but just don't have a large fan base. Why is it that the popular players get teams/sponsorships even though they aren't as skilled as some other people? The fans...
The "oh they don't owe you shit" attitude is the attitude that people take when they take fame for granted and forget that the fans got them where they are today
Am I saying that he has to answer every single little question we have? Of course not. It's fully within his rights to refuse to elucidate the situation. But he's putting his fans in a difficult position when one party presents some hard evidence [skype conversation+eye witnesses is pretty incriminating] and he answers with vague answers.
I bolded everything that didn't make sense in your post. For starters, how you think pros need fans to be what they are is beyond comprehension.
Edit: I edited leniency because some things do make sense in the end.
Okay, I'll go through it line by line then
Without fans, a pro is nothing <- main argument
Without fans, there is not a pro that would be where they are today <- By disagreeing with these statement, you're suggesting that fans are a complete nonfactor in a pro's success. I've avoided giving specific examples of people that have become successful purely through fans because I don't like naming specific people in public. PM me and I will give you a list. I can also give you a list of people who have not been successful because of the lack of fans but are skilled enough.
It could be argued that pros owe EVERYTHING to fans <- Pros need to make livings. In order to make a living, you need a sponsor/team. What are sponsors looking for? Someone with a large fan following to promote their products. There are reasons why unknown people are not sponsored by big names. It's not a concrete rule but there's a huge correlation between fanbase and sponsorships.
Big example here: Boxer. Is he as good as MVP/MC? Nope. But he gets a private sponsor because of his fanbase. [Yes I realize I named a specific example]
At the end of the day, it basically comes down to the fans...
Being good at the game = gets you more fans Winning championships = gets you more fans
Why do teams sponsor players? So they preform well and promote their products to their fans and fans of whatever the player is participating in.
<- Well, you said these lines make sense so I'll skip it.
They are tons of people that are better than some low tier pros but just don't have a large fan base. Why is it that the popular players get teams/sponsorships even though they aren't as skilled as some other people? The fans...
<- Again, see boxer example.
The "oh they don't owe you shit" attitude is the attitude that people take when they take fame for granted and forget that the fans got them where they are today <- This is an opinion, I can see how you would not be able to see it my way.
Am I saying that he has to answer every single little question we have? Of course not. It's fully within his rights to refuse to elucidate the situation. But he's putting his fans in a difficult position when one party presents some hard evidence [skype conversation+eye witnesses is pretty incriminating] and he answers with vague answers. <- I'm not sure what you're saying "doesn't make sense" so I'll discuss both parts of this one
Am I saying that he has to answer every single little question we have? Of course not. It's fully within his rights to refuse to elucidate the situation. <- This doesn't make sense? So he has to answer to the situation? Bolding this makes me feel like you just skimmed and didn't really think about what I wrote.
But he's putting his fans in a difficult position when one party presents some hard evidence [skype conversation+eye witnesses is pretty incriminating] and he answers with vague answers. <-Are you saying it's not hard on the fans to see one of their favorite players potentially in this light?
You realize that saying "this doesn't make sense" and not pointing out any logical fallacies is not debating or proving anything at all?
Right, so the conclusion is that progamers get everything from fans but don't owe them anything. Great, we agree.
I finally slogged through all of that, aided only by a few beacons of light and reason shining through the chaos and darkness of the masses...not necessarily limited to mods or "power users", of course.
On June 09 2011 07:17 Liquid`Drone wrote: Oh come on guys, some of you must have been blinded by years of media bs giving you a feeling of fucking entitlement. Ret doesn't owe any of you an explanation, because this entire issue is wholly irrelevant to everyone but three or four people. I can understand that this is a funny story and that it produces some entertainment value, but how are any of you influenced by this? You don't know what girl in question and ret talked about in private. you don't know what ex boyfriend and girl in question talked about in private. you don't know what ret's perception of girl in question and ex boyfriend's relationship status was. ret is by no means obliged to tell you either - his status as a professional starcraft two gamer does not mean that every aspect of his private life is up to scrutiny. enjoy the show if you want, but with the exception of ex-boyfriend, none of you have the right to be judgemental.
You can't really say that his private life should be staying private. "Famous" people (obviously I am using that term loosely as no SC2 player is really "famous" in north america) do not have the same expectation of privacy, at least in NA, as do the everyday person. There are no laws or anything regarding the matter.
The fact is that when you have many people who are your fans, or look up to you, then your personal behavior is subject to more scrutiny simply because you have more people watching what you do. The same is true for any sports star or actor, anything "personal" they do that reflects badly upon them is quite often found out by paparazzi and sold. Gossip, drama, etc is a good business.
Ret is by no means obliged to tell us anything but we absolutely have the right to be judgemental, especially if we are only given one side of a story that paints ret in a bad light that he refuses to refute. His image is a.) something people look up to, admire, or want to watch and b.) reflective of him, TeamLiquid, and all the according sponsors. That is what happens when you are someone with at least some importance. I am sorely disappointed that he didn't realize this and approach this situation much better, and I know that I am not alone. Something like this reflects badly upon his professional team and that is why it is subject to more scrutiny. If it didn't effect others then yes it wouldn't be an issue. But he is a representative of a brand and therefore yes I am influenced by this. I know that I am much less likely to want to watch his games for at least the short term simply because I wouldn't like the player.
1: Yes, famous people have been victims of paparazzis and lack of privacy for years. But isn't this pretty fucking horrible? I mean, in some instances you have dumb celebrities who want fame for the sake of being famous - and in that case they did give up their privacy. But for most celebrities, they are celebrities through being exceptionally good at something - and the fame and thus lack of privacy is something of a negative, unintended consequence. In fact, you might say that this sort of, gossipy behaviour, is in fact discouraging exceptionalism. And that, to me, is bad.
2: Just because something is good business, does not mean it should be encouraged. Weapons, prostitution and drugs make up three of the biggest industries in the world. While at least two out of these three might give you entertainment, I think we can largely agree that they contribute more bad than good.
3: The reason why you cannot be judgemental is that you are judging based on incomplete information. So far you have heard the story of one disgruntled part whom is obviously really biased, one part has not posted anything, and the third part has posted that not everything posted is true, but that he feels this is within his private sphere and that it is none of your concern. That should end it - it's none of your concern. Ret is a sc2 player, judge him based on that.
I think there's a difference between europe and usa in this aspect though, you have far more people who are famous for being famous, and with the exception of england, the right to privacy is far more respected in europe - unless someone's private actions are actually in direct conflict with their public persona, then I don't see how it matters at all.
Going forward however there are lessons to be learned. Forging e-sports into something that is actually respected though means that we really do need to avoid situations like this, for both the sport and the players. For the sport this just reflects badly. Yes it happens in established sports, but what kind of image do people get of e-sports when they hear of players acting like this? For Ret himself it even does have consequences. It's extremely unlikely but if he is in a close position with another player to get invited to a tournament couldn't the tournament sponsors decide to go with someone else to avoid a negative incident associated with the sponsors?
LMAO once again the "For the future of e-sports we just can't let this happen!" nonsense. Get a clue.
No u see u don''t realize now that this has happened hundreds of thousands of dollars wont be going to esports, prospective tourneys that were going to be the greatest have ceased, and companies have now shunned esports as a whole, the entire scene is gonna collapse within days!
On June 09 2011 07:17 Liquid`Drone wrote: Oh come on guys, some of you must have been blinded by years of media bs giving you a feeling of fucking entitlement. Ret doesn't owe any of you an explanation, because this entire issue is wholly irrelevant to everyone but three or four people. I can understand that this is a funny story and that it produces some entertainment value, but how are any of you influenced by this? You don't know what girl in question and ret talked about in private. you don't know what ex boyfriend and girl in question talked about in private. you don't know what ret's perception of girl in question and ex boyfriend's relationship status was. ret is by no means obliged to tell you either - his status as a professional starcraft two gamer does not mean that every aspect of his private life is up to scrutiny. enjoy the show if you want, but with the exception of ex-boyfriend, none of you have the right to be judgemental.
You can't really say that his private life should be staying private. "Famous" people (obviously I am using that term loosely as no SC2 player is really "famous" in north america) do not have the same expectation of privacy, at least in NA, as do the everyday person. There are no laws or anything regarding the matter.
The fact is that when you have many people who are your fans, or look up to you, then your personal behavior is subject to more scrutiny simply because you have more people watching what you do. The same is true for any sports star or actor, anything "personal" they do that reflects badly upon them is quite often found out by paparazzi and sold. Gossip, drama, etc is a good business.
Ret is by no means obliged to tell us anything but we absolutely have the right to be judgemental, especially if we are only given one side of a story that paints ret in a bad light that he refuses to refute. His image is a.) something people look up to, admire, or want to watch and b.) reflective of him, TeamLiquid, and all the according sponsors. That is what happens when you are someone with at least some importance. I am sorely disappointed that he didn't realize this and approach this situation much better, and I know that I am not alone. Something like this reflects badly upon his professional team and that is why it is subject to more scrutiny. If it didn't effect others then yes it wouldn't be an issue. But he is a representative of a brand and therefore yes I am influenced by this. I know that I am much less likely to want to watch his games for at least the short term simply because I wouldn't like the player.
1: Yes, famous people have been victims of paparazzis and lack of privacy for years. But isn't this pretty fucking horrible? I mean, in some instances you have dumb celebrities who want fame for the sake of being famous - and in that case they did give up their privacy. But for most celebrities, they are celebrities through being exceptionally good at something - and the fame and thus lack of privacy is something of a negative, unintended consequence. In fact, you might say that this sort of, gossipy behaviour, is in fact discouraging exceptionalism. And that, to me, is bad.
2: Just because something is good business, does not mean it should be encouraged. Weapons, prostitution and drugs make up three of the biggest industries in the world. While at least two out of these three might give you entertainment, I think we can largely agree that they contribute more bad than good.
3: The reason why you cannot be judgemental is that you are judging based on incomplete information. So far you have heard the story of one disgruntled part whom is obviously really biased, one part has not posted anything, and the third part has posted that not everything posted is true, but that he feels this is within his private sphere and that it is none of your concern. That should end it - it's none of your concern. Ret is a sc2 player, judge him based on that.
I think there's a difference between europe and usa in this aspect though, you have far more people who are famous for being famous, and with the exception of england, the right to privacy is far more respected in europe - unless someone's private actions are actually in direct conflict with their public persona, then I don't see how it matters at all.
Going forward however there are lessons to be learned. Forging e-sports into something that is actually respected though means that we really do need to avoid situations like this, for both the sport and the players. For the sport this just reflects badly. Yes it happens in established sports, but what kind of image do people get of e-sports when they hear of players acting like this? For Ret himself it even does have consequences. It's extremely unlikely but if he is in a close position with another player to get invited to a tournament couldn't the tournament sponsors decide to go with someone else to avoid a negative incident associated with the sponsors?
LMAO once again the "For the future of e-sports we just can't let this happen!" nonsense. Get a clue.
I think I can safely say that YOU ARE HURTING ESPORTS by laughing at that fine piece of post
Fine. I apologize for my actions in the past. No more pro-gaming gossip threads or anything ever. For E-SPORTS!
No please for the love of god! Dont apologize Sir, you are the thread-hero your page 2 post made my day. GG and please more gossip at least its something cool to kill some time with while these 80% lousy cheesy sc2 games are live.
Saying that we deserve to know player's secrets because progamers are nothing without fans is like saying that Coca-cola needs to disclose their exact formula and methods of production because they would be nothing without people buying their product.
On June 09 2011 07:17 Liquid`Drone wrote: Oh come on guys, some of you must have been blinded by years of media bs giving you a feeling of fucking entitlement. Ret doesn't owe any of you an explanation, because this entire issue is wholly irrelevant to everyone but three or four people. I can understand that this is a funny story and that it produces some entertainment value, but how are any of you influenced by this? You don't know what girl in question and ret talked about in private. you don't know what ex boyfriend and girl in question talked about in private. you don't know what ret's perception of girl in question and ex boyfriend's relationship status was. ret is by no means obliged to tell you either - his status as a professional starcraft two gamer does not mean that every aspect of his private life is up to scrutiny. enjoy the show if you want, but with the exception of ex-boyfriend, none of you have the right to be judgemental.
You can't really say that his private life should be staying private. "Famous" people (obviously I am using that term loosely as no SC2 player is really "famous" in north america) do not have the same expectation of privacy, at least in NA, as do the everyday person. There are no laws or anything regarding the matter.
The fact is that when you have many people who are your fans, or look up to you, then your personal behavior is subject to more scrutiny simply because you have more people watching what you do. The same is true for any sports star or actor, anything "personal" they do that reflects badly upon them is quite often found out by paparazzi and sold. Gossip, drama, etc is a good business.
Ret is by no means obliged to tell us anything but we absolutely have the right to be judgemental, especially if we are only given one side of a story that paints ret in a bad light that he refuses to refute. His image is a.) something people look up to, admire, or want to watch and b.) reflective of him, TeamLiquid, and all the according sponsors. That is what happens when you are someone with at least some importance. I am sorely disappointed that he didn't realize this and approach this situation much better, and I know that I am not alone. Something like this reflects badly upon his professional team and that is why it is subject to more scrutiny. If it didn't effect others then yes it wouldn't be an issue. But he is a representative of a brand and therefore yes I am influenced by this. I know that I am much less likely to want to watch his games for at least the short term simply because I wouldn't like the player.
1: Yes, famous people have been victims of paparazzis and lack of privacy for years. But isn't this pretty fucking horrible? I mean, in some instances you have dumb celebrities who want fame for the sake of being famous - and in that case they did give up their privacy. But for most celebrities, they are celebrities through being exceptionally good at something - and the fame and thus lack of privacy is something of a negative, unintended consequence. In fact, you might say that this sort of, gossipy behaviour, is in fact discouraging exceptionalism. And that, to me, is bad.
2: Just because something is good business, does not mean it should be encouraged. Weapons, prostitution and drugs make up three of the biggest industries in the world. While at least two out of these three might give you entertainment, I think we can largely agree that they contribute more bad than good.
3: The reason why you cannot be judgemental is that you are judging based on incomplete information. So far you have heard the story of one disgruntled part whom is obviously really biased, one part has not posted anything, and the third part has posted that not everything posted is true, but that he feels this is within his private sphere and that it is none of your concern. That should end it - it's none of your concern. Ret is a sc2 player, judge him based on that.
I think there's a difference between europe and usa in this aspect though, you have far more people who are famous for being famous, and with the exception of england, the right to privacy is far more respected in europe - unless someone's private actions are actually in direct conflict with their public persona, then I don't see how it matters at all.
Going forward however there are lessons to be learned. Forging e-sports into something that is actually respected though means that we really do need to avoid situations like this, for both the sport and the players. For the sport this just reflects badly. Yes it happens in established sports, but what kind of image do people get of e-sports when they hear of players acting like this? For Ret himself it even does have consequences. It's extremely unlikely but if he is in a close position with another player to get invited to a tournament couldn't the tournament sponsors decide to go with someone else to avoid a negative incident associated with the sponsors?
LMAO once again the "For the future of e-sports we just can't let this happen!" nonsense. Get a clue.
No u see u don''t realize now that this has happened hundreds of thousands of dollars wont be going to esports, prospective tourneys that were going to be the greatest have ceased, and companies have now shunned esports as a whole, the entire scene is gonna collapse within days!
On June 09 2011 07:17 Liquid`Drone wrote: Oh come on guys, some of you must have been blinded by years of media bs giving you a feeling of fucking entitlement. Ret doesn't owe any of you an explanation, because this entire issue is wholly irrelevant to everyone but three or four people. I can understand that this is a funny story and that it produces some entertainment value, but how are any of you influenced by this? You don't know what girl in question and ret talked about in private. you don't know what ex boyfriend and girl in question talked about in private. you don't know what ret's perception of girl in question and ex boyfriend's relationship status was. ret is by no means obliged to tell you either - his status as a professional starcraft two gamer does not mean that every aspect of his private life is up to scrutiny. enjoy the show if you want, but with the exception of ex-boyfriend, none of you have the right to be judgemental.
You can't really say that his private life should be staying private. "Famous" people (obviously I am using that term loosely as no SC2 player is really "famous" in north america) do not have the same expectation of privacy, at least in NA, as do the everyday person. There are no laws or anything regarding the matter.
The fact is that when you have many people who are your fans, or look up to you, then your personal behavior is subject to more scrutiny simply because you have more people watching what you do. The same is true for any sports star or actor, anything "personal" they do that reflects badly upon them is quite often found out by paparazzi and sold. Gossip, drama, etc is a good business.
Ret is by no means obliged to tell us anything but we absolutely have the right to be judgemental, especially if we are only given one side of a story that paints ret in a bad light that he refuses to refute. His image is a.) something people look up to, admire, or want to watch and b.) reflective of him, TeamLiquid, and all the according sponsors. That is what happens when you are someone with at least some importance. I am sorely disappointed that he didn't realize this and approach this situation much better, and I know that I am not alone. Something like this reflects badly upon his professional team and that is why it is subject to more scrutiny. If it didn't effect others then yes it wouldn't be an issue. But he is a representative of a brand and therefore yes I am influenced by this. I know that I am much less likely to want to watch his games for at least the short term simply because I wouldn't like the player.
1: Yes, famous people have been victims of paparazzis and lack of privacy for years. But isn't this pretty fucking horrible? I mean, in some instances you have dumb celebrities who want fame for the sake of being famous - and in that case they did give up their privacy. But for most celebrities, they are celebrities through being exceptionally good at something - and the fame and thus lack of privacy is something of a negative, unintended consequence. In fact, you might say that this sort of, gossipy behaviour, is in fact discouraging exceptionalism. And that, to me, is bad.
2: Just because something is good business, does not mean it should be encouraged. Weapons, prostitution and drugs make up three of the biggest industries in the world. While at least two out of these three might give you entertainment, I think we can largely agree that they contribute more bad than good.
3: The reason why you cannot be judgemental is that you are judging based on incomplete information. So far you have heard the story of one disgruntled part whom is obviously really biased, one part has not posted anything, and the third part has posted that not everything posted is true, but that he feels this is within his private sphere and that it is none of your concern. That should end it - it's none of your concern. Ret is a sc2 player, judge him based on that.
I think there's a difference between europe and usa in this aspect though, you have far more people who are famous for being famous, and with the exception of england, the right to privacy is far more respected in europe - unless someone's private actions are actually in direct conflict with their public persona, then I don't see how it matters at all.
Going forward however there are lessons to be learned. Forging e-sports into something that is actually respected though means that we really do need to avoid situations like this, for both the sport and the players. For the sport this just reflects badly. Yes it happens in established sports, but what kind of image do people get of e-sports when they hear of players acting like this? For Ret himself it even does have consequences. It's extremely unlikely but if he is in a close position with another player to get invited to a tournament couldn't the tournament sponsors decide to go with someone else to avoid a negative incident associated with the sponsors?
LMAO once again the "For the future of e-sports we just can't let this happen!" nonsense. Get a clue.
I think I can safely say that YOU ARE HURTING ESPORTS by laughing at that fine piece of post
Fine. I apologize for my actions in the past. No more pro-gaming gossip threads or anything ever. For E-SPORTS!
While some people might be getting on their high horses to make judgements on what happened, none of that is important.
Ret, (if you're even bothering to read this anymore) it definitely sucks to have your private life dragged out into public drama. People are gonna have ridiculous opinions from every angle. Eventually, all of this blows over.
However, don't miss the key message from all this. That message is a warning, that this girl is serious bad news. That's why people are talking about you bringing her over to the Netherlands, your fans don't want you to get stuck with the crazy. The signs are there, burrowed banelings getting called out for you, and hopefully you can micro yourself to survival (and maybe even get laid along the way).
On June 09 2011 08:34 Vansetsu wrote: Can you remember the first MLG's that included SC2? I sure do. I can remember watching Incontrol sitting on the floor with a pillow amongst a crowd of 100~ people watching TT1-play Jinro on something pretty close to a standard sized LAN table. Now we have have an event with two decent streams and live attendees reaching +2000 people.
Pretty sure Jinro wasn't at the first MLG that included SC2?
Can you remember the first MLG'sthat included SC2?
^Pretty sure I didn't say he was. (though I don't quite remember much from the first one other than HuK winning and some games from SeleCT maybe)
$1,600?!?! RET! C'mon man! you don't seem to understand the concept of groupies!
Anywho, I personally see nothing wrong with it. Think about this though: the guy has catz in his house, and his first response is break up with his girlfriend? I mean, I would've used her to get close to all the pros myself.
Btw: gossip like this should be banned from forums. Cheap stories & laughter is not what TL is about imo. Yo ushould close this shit. Its just a guy that can't control his woman, a caveman that gets laid, clubs her on the head and drags her to his cave and a groupie slut. Close it and let's move on people, nothing to see here.
On June 09 2011 10:42 Singu wrote: Btw: gossip like this should be banned from forums. Cheap stories & laughter is not what TL is about imo. Yo ushould close this shit. Its just a guy that can't control his woman, a caveman that gets laid, clubs her on the head and drags her to his cave and a groupie slut. Close it and let's move on people, nothing to see here.
Have you never seen Rekrul's threads? TL has a good history of gossip threads much like this. Speaking of Rekrul since he dropped by the thread, you need to bring those threads back!
Rekrul is an exception on the rule. Is that shit about 'Hovz driving to a kids house to beat him up' up somewhere? Or that story about a Brazilian lan where a guy CHAIR rushed his opponent?
oh wow >.< I could have agreed that 14 pages on TL and 1000+ replies on reddit would be justified if Ret made out with Catz because that would have been epic but this is just sad.
Obviously there's something else we don't know, there's always 2 sides of a story. If you think about what OP has been saying in his posts, the girl doesn't seem to be someone who goes to church on sundays and promised her mom to save her virginity untill age 40. She's been cheating on him several times and not just at this MLG event. A normal response to that would be "GTFO" but for some reason he chose to stay with her and with the knowledge that she is about as faithful a rabbit on speed, he brings her to this major event where the testosterone flows and manfluids boils and the manliest of manly nerds hang ut.
On June 09 2011 10:55 Svartstol wrote: with the knowledge that she is about as faithful a rabbit on speed, he brings her to this major event where the testosterone flows and manfluids boils and the manliest of manly nerds hang ut.
He said he didn't know until after all of this about the cheating, FWIW.
On June 09 2011 07:02 ptbl wrote: I think Ret, Catz, and the girl is in the wrong. I feel sorry for the dude who got cheated on. As Ret said, there are two sides to a story, but when you have 10+witnesses from MLG confirming the cheated dude's story...
+1...
I was a fan of ret since BW but this is a bit too much...
On June 09 2011 07:00 Liquid`Ret wrote: Heh so many lies. In my skype conversation with you you messaged me from her skype after you got into her house I had just found out that you posted on reddit. I didn't know I was doing something so terrible I thought you guys broke up on friday, which technically you did! but I have also heard about some fucked up shit you did. You seem to be enjoying the attention thought but this is really none of anyones business its only between the people involved so I don't want to go and explain myself here on a forum.
If you've done nothing wrong then why not explain yourself? You owe it to your fans...
He doesn't owe shit to anyone.
I'm going to have to disagree
Without fans, a pro is nothing
Without fans, there is not a pro that would be where they are today
It could be argued that pros owe EVERYTHING to fans
At the end of the day, it basically comes down to the fans...
Being good at the game = gets you more fans Winning championships = gets you more fans
Why do teams sponsor players? So they preform well and promote their products to their fans and fans of whatever the player is participating in. They are tons of people that are better than some low tier pros but just don't have a large fan base. Why is it that the popular players get teams/sponsorships even though they aren't as skilled as some other people? The fans...
The "oh they don't owe you shit" attitude is the attitude that people take when they take fame for granted and forget that the fans got them where they are today
Am I saying that he has to answer every single little question we have? Of course not. It's fully within his rights to refuse to elucidate the situation. But he's putting his fans in a difficult position when one party presents some hard evidence [skype conversation+eye witnesses is pretty incriminating] and he answers with vague answers.
I bolded everything that didn't make sense in your post. For starters, how you think pros need fans to be what they are is beyond comprehension.
Edit: I edited leniency because some things do make sense in the end.
skewed perception
Here's how it works from limited perspective:
Pros: motivated and determined player excels in several tournaments -> Team sees potentially good player and recruits him -> Player practices and engages in great battles, improving his skill level and thus win-rate + tournament placements and winnings -> Team and organization gets exposure and sponsors become interested.
Exposure is increased by interest of StarCraft II, of the battles, games and how the player plays, not how he is perceived in his personal life. It has an effect, but it is the equivalent of Weiner showing his crotch to a few mistresses. Some people care and see it as reflective to his career, others don't.
If you don't notice, a player doesn't get a fanbase usually until after his succession: prime example are people like Major who frowned upon until recently at the MLG (and even then).
On June 09 2011 07:02 ptbl wrote: I think Ret, Catz, and the girl is in the wrong. I feel sorry for the dude who got cheated on. As Ret said, there are two sides to a story, but when you have 10+witnesses from MLG confirming the cheated dude's story...
+1...
I was a fan of ret since BW but this is a bit too much...
On June 09 2011 07:00 Liquid`Ret wrote: Heh so many lies. In my skype conversation with you you messaged me from her skype after you got into her house I had just found out that you posted on reddit. I didn't know I was doing something so terrible I thought you guys broke up on friday, which technically you did! but I have also heard about some fucked up shit you did. You seem to be enjoying the attention thought but this is really none of anyones business its only between the people involved so I don't want to go and explain myself here on a forum.
If you've done nothing wrong then why not explain yourself? You owe it to your fans...
He doesn't owe shit to anyone.
I'm going to have to disagree
Without fans, a pro is nothing
Without fans, there is not a pro that would be where they are today
It could be argued that pros owe EVERYTHING to fans
At the end of the day, it basically comes down to the fans...
Being good at the game = gets you more fans Winning championships = gets you more fans
Why do teams sponsor players? So they preform well and promote their products to their fans and fans of whatever the player is participating in.
They are tons of people that are better than some low tier pros but just don't have a large fan base. Why is it that the popular players get teams/sponsorships even though they aren't as skilled as some other people? The fans...
The "oh they don't owe you shit" attitude is the attitude that people take when they take fame for granted and forget that the fans got them where they are today
Am I saying that he has to answer every single little question we have? Of course not. It's fully within his rights to refuse to elucidate the situation. But he's putting his fans in a difficult position when one party presents some hard evidence [skype conversation+eye witnesses is pretty incriminating] and he answers with vague answers.
can someone close this thread now plz my head is going to explode
Without a head, there is nothing to live for.
Without threads, you wouldn't be ahead.
Ha ha!
-_-
Yeah, I'm not going to license your use of the korean gosu stare.
On June 09 2011 09:14 AnalThermometer wrote: I find it amusing that this is happening in SC2 now.
These things have been happening for years. Theres just more girls now so people are becoming aware of it. Esports events in general are cess pools.
Really? Thats pretty awesome. Anyway i am really surprised this thread is still going, my guess is nothing good is going to come of it, only a lot of negativity. I feel bad for everyone personally involved sounds like a fairly bad situation. Will watch with baited breath to see what happens next though. Ret if I were you I would just ignore it and everyone should forget in like a week, really don't see any of this as your fault at all, feel bad you had to be involved in this controversy.
On June 09 2011 07:02 ptbl wrote: I think Ret, Catz, and the girl is in the wrong. I feel sorry for the dude who got cheated on. As Ret said, there are two sides to a story, but when you have 10+witnesses from MLG confirming the cheated dude's story...
+1...
I was a fan of ret since BW but this is a bit too much...
On June 09 2011 07:00 Liquid`Ret wrote: Heh so many lies. In my skype conversation with you you messaged me from her skype after you got into her house I had just found out that you posted on reddit. I didn't know I was doing something so terrible I thought you guys broke up on friday, which technically you did! but I have also heard about some fucked up shit you did. You seem to be enjoying the attention thought but this is really none of anyones business its only between the people involved so I don't want to go and explain myself here on a forum.
If you've done nothing wrong then why not explain yourself? You owe it to your fans...
He doesn't owe shit to anyone.
I'm going to have to disagree
Without fans, a pro is nothing
Without fans, there is not a pro that would be where they are today
It could be argued that pros owe EVERYTHING to fans
At the end of the day, it basically comes down to the fans...
Being good at the game = gets you more fans Winning championships = gets you more fans
Why do teams sponsor players? So they preform well and promote their products to their fans and fans of whatever the player is participating in. They are tons of people that are better than some low tier pros but just don't have a large fan base. Why is it that the popular players get teams/sponsorships even though they aren't as skilled as some other people? The fans...
The "oh they don't owe you shit" attitude is the attitude that people take when they take fame for granted and forget that the fans got them where they are today
Am I saying that he has to answer every single little question we have? Of course not. It's fully within his rights to refuse to elucidate the situation. But he's putting his fans in a difficult position when one party presents some hard evidence [skype conversation+eye witnesses is pretty incriminating] and he answers with vague answers.
I bolded everything that didn't make sense in your post. For starters, how you think pros need fans to be what they are is beyond comprehension.
Edit: I edited leniency because some things do make sense in the end.
skewed perception
Here's how it works from limited perspective:
Pros: motivated and determined player excels in several tournaments -> Team sees potentially good player and recruits him -> Player practices and engages in great battles, improving his skill level and thus win-rate + tournament placements and winnings -> Team and organization gets exposure and sponsors become interested.
Exposure is increased by interest of StarCraft II, of the battles, games and how the player plays, not how he is perceived in his personal life. It has an effect, but it is the equivalent of Weiner showing his crotch to a few mistresses. Some people care and see it as reflective to his career, others don't.
If you don't notice, a player doesn't get a fanbase usually until after his succession: prime example are people like Major who frowned upon until recently at the MLG (and even then).
I don't remember saying that interest of SCII was based on people's personal lives anywhere. If you could point that out it would be helpful.
Also, public image of a celebrity /is/ in fact important. The pro is representing the sponsors to the fans, and by having a negative self image, they are showing the sponsor and their team in a bad light by association. People have been kicked out of teams because of "bad public image". Same reason why you don't want a famous criminal to promote your product.
From a purely financial standpoint, pros that get a lot more views are worth more than pros with less views. Especially in individual leagues. How do people choose what games to watch? They want to watch their favorite pros, not some random person that no one has heard of.
And before calling my view a "skewed perception", please point out where my fallacies are. Respect my opinions as much as I respect yours.[yes, what we are debating are opinions.] Thanks. Merely saying that "No you're wrong this is how it really works" when our views are not mutually exclusive does not mean much.
On June 09 2011 07:02 ptbl wrote: I think Ret, Catz, and the girl is in the wrong. I feel sorry for the dude who got cheated on. As Ret said, there are two sides to a story, but when you have 10+witnesses from MLG confirming the cheated dude's story...
+1...
I was a fan of ret since BW but this is a bit too much...
On June 09 2011 07:00 Liquid`Ret wrote: Heh so many lies. In my skype conversation with you you messaged me from her skype after you got into her house I had just found out that you posted on reddit. I didn't know I was doing something so terrible I thought you guys broke up on friday, which technically you did! but I have also heard about some fucked up shit you did. You seem to be enjoying the attention thought but this is really none of anyones business its only between the people involved so I don't want to go and explain myself here on a forum.
If you've done nothing wrong then why not explain yourself? You owe it to your fans...
He doesn't owe shit to anyone.
I'm going to have to disagree
Without fans, a pro is nothing
Without fans, there is not a pro that would be where they are today
It could be argued that pros owe EVERYTHING to fans
At the end of the day, it basically comes down to the fans...
Being good at the game = gets you more fans Winning championships = gets you more fans
Why do teams sponsor players? So they preform well and promote their products to their fans and fans of whatever the player is participating in. They are tons of people that are better than some low tier pros but just don't have a large fan base. Why is it that the popular players get teams/sponsorships even though they aren't as skilled as some other people? The fans...
The "oh they don't owe you shit" attitude is the attitude that people take when they take fame for granted and forget that the fans got them where they are today
Am I saying that he has to answer every single little question we have? Of course not. It's fully within his rights to refuse to elucidate the situation. But he's putting his fans in a difficult position when one party presents some hard evidence [skype conversation+eye witnesses is pretty incriminating] and he answers with vague answers.
I bolded everything that didn't make sense in your post. For starters, how you think pros need fans to be what they are is beyond comprehension.
Edit: I edited leniency because some things do make sense in the end.
skewed perception
Here's how it works from limited perspective:
Pros: motivated and determined player excels in several tournaments -> Team sees potentially good player and recruits him -> Player practices and engages in great battles, improving his skill level and thus win-rate + tournament placements and winnings -> Team and organization gets exposure and sponsors become interested.
Exposure is increased by interest of StarCraft II, of the battles, games and how the player plays, not how he is perceived in his personal life. It has an effect, but it is the equivalent of Weiner showing his crotch to a few mistresses. Some people care and see it as reflective to his career, others don't.
If you don't notice, a player doesn't get a fanbase usually until after his succession: prime example are people like Major who frowned upon until recently at the MLG (and even then).
I don't remember saying that interest of SCII was based on people's personal lives anywhere. If you could point that out it would be helpful.
Also, public image of a celebrity /is/ in fact important. The pro is representing the sponsors to the fans, and by having a negative self image, they are showing the sponsor and their team in a bad light by association. People have been kicked out of teams because of "bad public image". Same reason why you don't want a famous criminal to promote your product.
From a purely financial standpoint, pros that get a lot more views are worth more than pros with less views. Especially in individual leagues. How do people choose what games to watch? They want to watch their favorite pros, not some random person that no one has heard of.
And before calling my view a "skewed perception", please point out where my fallacies are. Respect my opinions as much as I respect yours.[yes, what we are debating are opinions.] Thanks. Merely saying that "No you're wrong this is how it really works" when our views are not mutually exclusive does not mean much.
This is what the general discussion is going on about. If you need underlining, I don't think I can help you, it's all over your reply(ies) to me.
I'm sure idra is really losing sponsors over his bad manners, poor sportsmanship conduct and overall public rudeness to highly-regarded players. Who's been kicked out of teams because of bad public image in StarCraft II?
To end, you link (in)famous criminal with poor public image of a celebrity.
I already pointed out all your fallacies in bold and then summed its skewed perception by how I feel it truly goes. I even bolded it and let the ball roll with "For starters, how you think pros need fans to be what they are is beyond comprehension."
This is my last reply for you I'm afraid. I don't see this discussion going any further because you seem to overlook several aspects and emphasize parts of people with any decent examples or follow-ups.
On June 09 2011 07:02 ptbl wrote: I think Ret, Catz, and the girl is in the wrong. I feel sorry for the dude who got cheated on. As Ret said, there are two sides to a story, but when you have 10+witnesses from MLG confirming the cheated dude's story...
+1...
I was a fan of ret since BW but this is a bit too much...
On June 09 2011 07:00 Liquid`Ret wrote: Heh so many lies. In my skype conversation with you you messaged me from her skype after you got into her house I had just found out that you posted on reddit. I didn't know I was doing something so terrible I thought you guys broke up on friday, which technically you did! but I have also heard about some fucked up shit you did. You seem to be enjoying the attention thought but this is really none of anyones business its only between the people involved so I don't want to go and explain myself here on a forum.
If you've done nothing wrong then why not explain yourself? You owe it to your fans...
He doesn't owe shit to anyone.
I'm going to have to disagree
Without fans, a pro is nothing
Without fans, there is not a pro that would be where they are today
It could be argued that pros owe EVERYTHING to fans
At the end of the day, it basically comes down to the fans...
Being good at the game = gets you more fans Winning championships = gets you more fans
Why do teams sponsor players? So they preform well and promote their products to their fans and fans of whatever the player is participating in.
They are tons of people that are better than some low tier pros but just don't have a large fan base. Why is it that the popular players get teams/sponsorships even though they aren't as skilled as some other people? The fans...
The "oh they don't owe you shit" attitude is the attitude that people take when they take fame for granted and forget that the fans got them where they are today
Am I saying that he has to answer every single little question we have? Of course not. It's fully within his rights to refuse to elucidate the situation. But he's putting his fans in a difficult position when one party presents some hard evidence [skype conversation+eye witnesses is pretty incriminating] and he answers with vague answers.
can someone close this thread now plz my head is going to explode
I have some strange feeling that the7ak3 and ret are gonna become total bros and be like loool that girl was such a whore and rets gonna bring him along for the groupies next mlg or something.
This kid started a thread on reddit to get viewers because his GF (now ex-GF) wanted to start a STRIP SC2 STREAM for LESSONS. How he did not see this coming, I have no idea and he deserves everything that happened to him.
Just going to reiterate the fact that the OP started a thread looking for viewers to watch his girlfriend (ex) strip, Also if you go through his posts in the thread, they're ridiculously unprofessional and trollworthy. High level troll in the midst.
On June 09 2011 07:02 ptbl wrote: I think Ret, Catz, and the girl is in the wrong. I feel sorry for the dude who got cheated on. As Ret said, there are two sides to a story, but when you have 10+witnesses from MLG confirming the cheated dude's story...
+1...
I was a fan of ret since BW but this is a bit too much...
On June 09 2011 07:00 Liquid`Ret wrote: Heh so many lies. In my skype conversation with you you messaged me from her skype after you got into her house I had just found out that you posted on reddit. I didn't know I was doing something so terrible I thought you guys broke up on friday, which technically you did! but I have also heard about some fucked up shit you did. You seem to be enjoying the attention thought but this is really none of anyones business its only between the people involved so I don't want to go and explain myself here on a forum.
If you've done nothing wrong then why not explain yourself? You owe it to your fans...
He doesn't owe shit to anyone.
I'm going to have to disagree
Without fans, a pro is nothing
Without fans, there is not a pro that would be where they are today
It could be argued that pros owe EVERYTHING to fans
At the end of the day, it basically comes down to the fans...
Being good at the game = gets you more fans Winning championships = gets you more fans
Why do teams sponsor players? So they preform well and promote their products to their fans and fans of whatever the player is participating in. They are tons of people that are better than some low tier pros but just don't have a large fan base. Why is it that the popular players get teams/sponsorships even though they aren't as skilled as some other people? The fans...
The "oh they don't owe you shit" attitude is the attitude that people take when they take fame for granted and forget that the fans got them where they are today
Am I saying that he has to answer every single little question we have? Of course not. It's fully within his rights to refuse to elucidate the situation. But he's putting his fans in a difficult position when one party presents some hard evidence [skype conversation+eye witnesses is pretty incriminating] and he answers with vague answers.
I bolded everything that didn't make sense in your post. For starters, how you think pros need fans to be what they are is beyond comprehension.
Edit: I edited leniency because some things do make sense in the end.
skewed perception
Here's how it works from limited perspective:
Pros: motivated and determined player excels in several tournaments -> Team sees potentially good player and recruits him -> Player practices and engages in great battles, improving his skill level and thus win-rate + tournament placements and winnings -> Team and organization gets exposure and sponsors become interested.
Exposure is increased by interest of StarCraft II, of the battles, games and how the player plays, not how he is perceived in his personal life. It has an effect, but it is the equivalent of Weiner showing his crotch to a few mistresses. Some people care and see it as reflective to his career, others don't.
If you don't notice, a player doesn't get a fanbase usually until after his succession: prime example are people like Major who frowned upon until recently at the MLG (and even then).
I don't remember saying that interest of SCII was based on people's personal lives anywhere. If you could point that out it would be helpful.
Also, public image of a celebrity /is/ in fact important. The pro is representing the sponsors to the fans, and by having a negative self image, they are showing the sponsor and their team in a bad light by association. People have been kicked out of teams because of "bad public image". Same reason why you don't want a famous criminal to promote your product.
From a purely financial standpoint, pros that get a lot more views are worth more than pros with less views. Especially in individual leagues. How do people choose what games to watch? They want to watch their favorite pros, not some random person that no one has heard of.
And before calling my view a "skewed perception", please point out where my fallacies are. Respect my opinions as much as I respect yours.[yes, what we are debating are opinions.] Thanks. Merely saying that "No you're wrong this is how it really works" when our views are not mutually exclusive does not mean much.
I like how you're shining the same light on this situation as you would on someone "being a criminal". Made me chuckle.
I don't even know what to post that's "on-topic" anymore. Fucking ESPORTS ruining everything.
On June 08 2011 23:19 Ganjamaster wrote: I am quite fond of CatZ and his stream, apparently he is a pretty chill dude who keeps it real.
That being said, I do not know how this guy who posted on reddit didnt start some shit with him when he started being cheeky around his girlfriend.
If that shit about ret is true than thats even worse rofl.
BTW if Ret really FLEW a random girl over to the netherlands at the prospect of potential sex, somebody should really remind him that he lives in AMSTERDAM where prostitution is LEGAL. Maybe he will save some money.... last time I checked shit went for 50 euros or something like that.
and
On June 09 2011 14:35 javy925 wrote: brother mack gives his view on the catz and ret thing LOL:
1600...holy hell. Imagine going to a strip club with 1600....I can't even imagine all the possibilities. As Brother Mack said...that can also last you many a day of fun.
In all reality I could easily expect CatZ could do such a thing. But ret. Really?
idk just seems to me Ret was beyond this kind of stuff. I was a big fan of ret. Not only as a player, but as a person to sorta look up to in way. A model of ideal character. But apperently I was wrong.
Now I understand that there are hormones and such running wild. but I though ret was the kind of guy who auctally respected women in a way. not get drunk and make out with some random girl. All just seems out of character for him. But again I am just a fan and was seeing him with rose colored glasses.
Sorta feels like the people you once looked up to let you down in a ways. Feels personal.
On June 09 2011 15:06 masterbreti wrote: In all reality I could easily expect CatZ could do such a thing. But ret. Really?
idk just seems to me Ret was beyond this kind of stuff. I was a big fan of ret. Not only as a player, but as a person to sorta look up to in way. A model of ideal character. But apperently I was wrong.
Now I understand that there are hormones and such running wild. but I though ret was the kind of guy who auctally respected women in a way. not get drunk and make out with some random girl. All just seems out of character for him. But again I am just a fan and was seeing him with rose colored glasses.
Sorta feels like the people you once looked up to let you down in a ways. Feels personal.
Ret said that he thought they broke up. I mean from his point of view he's got someone he likes, who likes him back, who could use a rebound.
I saw this on Reddit then thought the (ex)boyfriend was over exaggerating and posted false pictures... Looks like I was wrong.
I would have NEVER believed girls would fall in groupie status for video games... Looks like I was wrong.
Welp Ret, only word of advice is... if you're going to go out with someone and fly them from the US to Europe... at least let them pay half the ticket....
I don't really know why this makes me so angry. Usually I can detach from these kinds of deals but I guess when you idolize a player it's harder to detach. I'm literally fuming about some of the attitudes people have here and more commonly on reddit about this.
The attitude that "LOL this dude is a loser and a whimp why doesnt he act out" is actually so detestable that it's hard to put into words. If someone gave that attitude to me after my girlfriend had lied and fucked around this way I would probably give that person the beatdown of their life. In what world is it ok to be such an incredibly inhumane douchebag fratboy that you actually say such shit. Would you preffer it if he was "cool and badass" and bought a gun and gunned down our well loved gamers? Is that the kind of reaction that makes him a man instead of a wimp? God that attitude is despicable. Regardless of whether his actions are unacceptable or not. You do not put a guy on blast for not getting violent with the situation. That is simply retarded.
On June 09 2011 16:41 StarBrift wrote: I don't really know why this makes me so angry. Usually I can detach from these kinds of deals but I guess when you idolize a player it's harder to detach. I'm literally fuming about some of the attitudes people have here and more commonly on reddit about this.
The attitude that "LOL this dude is a loser and a whimp why doesnt he act out" is actually so detestable that it's hard to put into words. If someone gave that attitude to me after my girlfriend had lied and fucked around this way I would probably give that person the beatdown of their life. In what world is it ok to be such an incredibly inhumane douchebag fratboy that you actually say such shit. Would you preffer it if he was "cool and badass" and bought a gun and gunned down our well loved gamers? Is that the kind of reaction that makes him a man instead of a wimp? God that attitude is despicable. Regardless of whether his actions are unacceptable or not. You do not put a guy on blast for not getting violent with the situation. That is simply retarded.
While I agree with everything you said, I believe that the majority of the people you are referring to were actually detesting him not because he didn't react violently against the other party, but because he let his girlfriend get so out of control and was overly trusting. If not, then I do agree people are being completely out of hand. One thing I would criticize him for is the fact that the way he finally does react, though I can't blame him completely to act irrationally. This shouldn't have been so public. Oh well... at least it's interesting to watch... I guess.
On June 08 2011 23:19 Ganjamaster wrote: I am quite fond of CatZ and his stream, apparently he is a pretty chill dude who keeps it real.
That being said, I do not know how this guy who posted on reddit didnt start some shit with him when he started being cheeky around his girlfriend.
If that shit about ret is true than thats even worse rofl.
BTW if Ret really FLEW a random girl over to the netherlands at the prospect of potential sex, somebody should really remind him that he lives in AMSTERDAM where prostitution is LEGAL. Maybe he will save some money.... last time I checked shit went for 50 euros or something like that.
1600...holy hell. Imagine going to a strip club with 1600....I can't even imagine all the possibilities. As Brother Mack said...that can also last you many a day of fun.
uhhh...it'll get you a bottle and 3 hours in the back room which = blue balls
On June 08 2011 23:19 Ganjamaster wrote: I am quite fond of CatZ and his stream, apparently he is a pretty chill dude who keeps it real.
That being said, I do not know how this guy who posted on reddit didnt start some shit with him when he started being cheeky around his girlfriend.
If that shit about ret is true than thats even worse rofl.
BTW if Ret really FLEW a random girl over to the netherlands at the prospect of potential sex, somebody should really remind him that he lives in AMSTERDAM where prostitution is LEGAL. Maybe he will save some money.... last time I checked shit went for 50 euros or something like that.
and
On June 09 2011 14:35 javy925 wrote: brother mack gives his view on the catz and ret thing LOL:
1600...holy hell. Imagine going to a strip club with 1600....I can't even imagine all the possibilities. As Brother Mack said...that can also last you many a day of fun.
uhhh...it'll get you a bottle and 3 hours in the back room which = blue balls
Don't worry guys, I deleted it because I found out from the thread (a coworker of hers sent me a message), that she had been cheating on me the entire relationship. I was just too dumb to know. This is not Ret or Catz fault, it's hers, but I agree with everyone in that Ret should not stick his dick in crazy.
On June 08 2011 23:19 Ganjamaster wrote: I am quite fond of CatZ and his stream, apparently he is a pretty chill dude who keeps it real.
That being said, I do not know how this guy who posted on reddit didnt start some shit with him when he started being cheeky around his girlfriend.
If that shit about ret is true than thats even worse rofl.
BTW if Ret really FLEW a random girl over to the netherlands at the prospect of potential sex, somebody should really remind him that he lives in AMSTERDAM where prostitution is LEGAL. Maybe he will save some money.... last time I checked shit went for 50 euros or something like that.
and
On June 09 2011 14:35 javy925 wrote: brother mack gives his view on the catz and ret thing LOL:
1600...holy hell. Imagine going to a strip club with 1600....I can't even imagine all the possibilities. As Brother Mack said...that can also last you many a day of fun.
uhhh...it'll get you a bottle and 3 hours in the back room which = blue balls
hf..
completely dependent on where you go
True, I was chilling with some friends in Tampa 2 years ago for the Steelers- Cards SB and we went to this stripclub called Space Odyssey 2001 or something like that... they private ("Champagne") room was called the "space ship" and it was on the top floor. My friend bought a lap dance and the girl randomly gave him a handy... maybe for 40 bucks extra. It is worthwhile noting that you are allowed to feel the strippers in Tampa, it is legal. The handy, not so much, but he got pretty lucky.
Nevertheless this is inconsequential since, as I stated before, prostitution is legal in amsterdam and 1600 dollars can get you at least 10 long rounds with prime prostitutes in the red light district, plus a few beers and joints to boot. This deal is substantially better than flying a random ho across the world, but to each his own I guess.
I wake up this morning nothing to read no newspaper but i can rely on TL forum for my morning read i love you guys all of you this threads gets better and bettter by the hour
On June 09 2011 06:04 Liquid`Ret wrote: I think it was really unnesecary for this to be on the internet and there are always 2 sides to every story, i really didnt know it was going to be such a big deal. I'm shocked by all of this.
On June 09 2011 07:00 Liquid`Ret wrote: this is really none of anyones business its only between the people involved so I don't want to go and explain myself here on a forum.
On June 09 2011 07:23 Liquid`Ret wrote: there's a lot of untrue stuff being said, but i don't want to get into that. i met a girl, i thought she was single. i didn't think two single people hanging out was a big deal. please respect the privacy of the people involved. thanks!
Personality is a large part of likeability especially for public figures. As a person who strives to see themself at the top of (e)sports you are a public figure.
You don't have to tell anybody anything. But you can't expect nor demand respect in turn. People are entitled to their opinion and if you don't like it you can correct it by providing your reasoning, which will enable people to judge you more accurately by reducing the influence of speculation. Whether that works more against or for you then depends on where the behaviour at issue places you in the eyes of the people. Or you can try to keep it out of the public, improving your image by hiding unlikable traits. But that is not always possible, as evidenced by this story, which apparently has some truth to it.
Bottom line is you can't and shouldn't be able to prevent people from forming opinions about things.
On June 09 2011 16:41 StarBrift wrote: I don't really know why this makes me so angry. Usually I can detach from these kinds of deals but I guess when you idolize a player it's harder to detach. I'm literally fuming about some of the attitudes people have here and more commonly on reddit about this.
The attitude that "LOL this dude is a loser and a whimp why doesnt he act out" is actually so detestable that it's hard to put into words. If someone gave that attitude to me after my girlfriend had lied and fucked around this way I would probably give that person the beatdown of their life. In what world is it ok to be such an incredibly inhumane douchebag fratboy that you actually say such shit. Would you preffer it if he was "cool and badass" and bought a gun and gunned down our well loved gamers? Is that the kind of reaction that makes him a man instead of a wimp? God that attitude is despicable. Regardless of whether his actions are unacceptable or not. You do not put a guy on blast for not getting violent with the situation. That is simply retarded.
I don´t know about gunning people down, but I think a good old bar brawl was more than warranted if CatZ or any of the guys involved were crossing some lines with his girlfriend.
Speaking for myself here, if anyone, regardless of his size or number of his party, continually behaved in a way I deemed inappropriate towards my girlfriend in disregard of any warnings I may give him would be met with the maximum amount of unarmed physical violence available to me swiftly and decisively, without even a hint of consideration for my own physical integrity.
On June 09 2011 16:41 StarBrift wrote: I don't really know why this makes me so angry. Usually I can detach from these kinds of deals but I guess when you idolize a player it's harder to detach. I'm literally fuming about some of the attitudes people have here and more commonly on reddit about this.
The attitude that "LOL this dude is a loser and a whimp why doesnt he act out" is actually so detestable that it's hard to put into words. If someone gave that attitude to me after my girlfriend had lied and fucked around this way I would probably give that person the beatdown of their life. In what world is it ok to be such an incredibly inhumane douchebag fratboy that you actually say such shit. Would you preffer it if he was "cool and badass" and bought a gun and gunned down our well loved gamers? Is that the kind of reaction that makes him a man instead of a wimp? God that attitude is despicable. Regardless of whether his actions are unacceptable or not. You do not put a guy on blast for not getting violent with the situation. That is simply retarded.
I don´t know about gunning people down, but I think a good old bar brawl was more than warranted if CatZ or any of the guys involved were crossing some lines with his girlfriend.
Speaking for myself here, if anyone, regardless of his size or number of his party, continually behaved in a way I deemed inappropriate towards my girlfriend in disregard of any warnings I may give him would be met with the maximum amount of unarmed physical violence available to me swiftly and decisively, without even a hint of consideration for my own physical integrity.
Have done so in the past, would do it again.
So many stronk alfa males lurking TL, I'm deeply impressed.
On June 09 2011 16:41 StarBrift wrote: I don't really know why this makes me so angry. Usually I can detach from these kinds of deals but I guess when you idolize a player it's harder to detach. I'm literally fuming about some of the attitudes people have here and more commonly on reddit about this.
The attitude that "LOL this dude is a loser and a whimp why doesnt he act out" is actually so detestable that it's hard to put into words. If someone gave that attitude to me after my girlfriend had lied and fucked around this way I would probably give that person the beatdown of their life. In what world is it ok to be such an incredibly inhumane douchebag fratboy that you actually say such shit. Would you preffer it if he was "cool and badass" and bought a gun and gunned down our well loved gamers? Is that the kind of reaction that makes him a man instead of a wimp? God that attitude is despicable. Regardless of whether his actions are unacceptable or not. You do not put a guy on blast for not getting violent with the situation. That is simply retarded.
I don´t know about gunning people down, but I think a good old bar brawl was more than warranted if CatZ or any of the guys involved were crossing some lines with his girlfriend.
Speaking for myself here, if anyone, regardless of his size or number of his party, continually behaved in a way I deemed inappropriate towards my girlfriend in disregard of any warnings I may give him would be met with the maximum amount of unarmed physical violence available to me swiftly and decisively, without even a hint of consideration for my own physical integrity.
Have done so in the past, would do it again.
So many stronk alfa males lurking TL, I'm deeply impressed.
I do not understand how this makes me "strong" or "alpha" in any way. I just do not see any other possible course of action in this situation if they do not cease and desist from their actions after being given many warnings.
Ret the Ryan Giggs of starcraft! hahaha funny sh!t!
Also I liked the comment about bringing a girl to MLG is the same as taking them to the lions den. Its not like MLG is chippendales ppl. Id laugh if my gf broke it off @ mlg to go hang out with the "pro's" hahaha. Funny thing!
Get real!
UPDATE:Forgot prostitution is legal in netherlands.
On June 08 2011 12:37 Mordiford wrote: I'm a huge fan of ROOT and I feel really really bad for Catz, I think his response is pretty appropriate and I understand his frustration.
I mean, I highly doubt MLG would disqualify July or any of the Korean players, nor would they disqualify some of the higher finishing players but that seems wrong to me, if the examples that Catz gave are accurate then I feel he really got fucked over. It shouldn't matter if you got 1st at a previous MLG, are a GSL winner or are a diamond leaguer who is at his first MLG, the rules should apply equally to everyone or show the same leniency to everyone. If they couldn't wait 14 minutes for Catz, they shouldn't wait for anyone.
Koreans were never late to anything though. We got a close call at one point and we had to rush back (and MMA needed tums cause of that T_T) so I'm pretty sure their standards are about the same. You just have to be very aggressive with everything I think D:
Things became pretty magical when I discovered the info booth though, I wish I discovered it sooner so I didn't have to bug the refs as much
On June 09 2011 08:59 twstdletz wrote: This thread has gone beyond hurting esports... LiquidRet you have personally broken e-sports.
no, really... this isn't that interesting. Jealous ex-bf, kinda slutty girl... the best thing to come out of the thread so far is this lil gem of a quote:
On June 09 2011 16:41 StarBrift wrote: I don't really know why this makes me so angry. Usually I can detach from these kinds of deals but I guess when you idolize a player it's harder to detach. I'm literally fuming about some of the attitudes people have here and more commonly on reddit about this.
The attitude that "LOL this dude is a loser and a whimp why doesnt he act out" is actually so detestable that it's hard to put into words. If someone gave that attitude to me after my girlfriend had lied and fucked around this way I would probably give that person the beatdown of their life. In what world is it ok to be such an incredibly inhumane douchebag fratboy that you actually say such shit. Would you preffer it if he was "cool and badass" and bought a gun and gunned down our well loved gamers? Is that the kind of reaction that makes him a man instead of a wimp? God that attitude is despicable. Regardless of whether his actions are unacceptable or not. You do not put a guy on blast for not getting violent with the situation. That is simply retarded.
I don´t know about gunning people down, but I think a good old bar brawl was more than warranted if CatZ or any of the guys involved were crossing some lines with his girlfriend.
Speaking for myself here, if anyone, regardless of his size or number of his party, continually behaved in a way I deemed inappropriate towards my girlfriend in disregard of any warnings I may give him would be met with the maximum amount of unarmed physical violence available to me swiftly and decisively, without even a hint of consideration for my own physical integrity.
Have done so in the past, would do it again.
So many stronk alfa males lurking TL, I'm deeply impressed.
I do not understand how this makes me "strong" or "alpha" in any way. I just do not see any other possible course of action in this situation if they do not cease and desist from their actions after being given many warnings.
On June 09 2011 16:41 StarBrift wrote: I don't really know why this makes me so angry. Usually I can detach from these kinds of deals but I guess when you idolize a player it's harder to detach. I'm literally fuming about some of the attitudes people have here and more commonly on reddit about this.
The attitude that "LOL this dude is a loser and a whimp why doesnt he act out" is actually so detestable that it's hard to put into words. If someone gave that attitude to me after my girlfriend had lied and fucked around this way I would probably give that person the beatdown of their life. In what world is it ok to be such an incredibly inhumane douchebag fratboy that you actually say such shit. Would you preffer it if he was "cool and badass" and bought a gun and gunned down our well loved gamers? Is that the kind of reaction that makes him a man instead of a wimp? God that attitude is despicable. Regardless of whether his actions are unacceptable or not. You do not put a guy on blast for not getting violent with the situation. That is simply retarded.
I don´t know about gunning people down, but I think a good old bar brawl was more than warranted if CatZ or any of the guys involved were crossing some lines with his girlfriend.
Speaking for myself here, if anyone, regardless of his size or number of his party, continually behaved in a way I deemed inappropriate towards my girlfriend in disregard of any warnings I may give him would be met with the maximum amount of unarmed physical violence available to me swiftly and decisively, without even a hint of consideration for my own physical integrity.
Have done so in the past, would do it again.
So many stronk alfa males lurking TL, I'm deeply impressed.
I do not understand how this makes me "strong" or "alpha" in any way. I just do not see any other possible course of action in this situation if they do not cease and desist from their actions after being given many warnings.
You're a savage living in another century. In the West, we don't use violence, we sue people! Now in this case it might not be optimal to do that, so the fellow told the whole story and got a bigillion replies/attention, which has hurt Ret's reputation more than what a "good ol' beating" would have.
As for the girl, she is now gonna be known as a slut (in the sc community). Thats just the way it is. I'd say his approach was a lot better than what you suggested in your macho way.
On June 09 2011 16:41 StarBrift wrote: I don't really know why this makes me so angry. Usually I can detach from these kinds of deals but I guess when you idolize a player it's harder to detach. I'm literally fuming about some of the attitudes people have here and more commonly on reddit about this.
The attitude that "LOL this dude is a loser and a whimp why doesnt he act out" is actually so detestable that it's hard to put into words. If someone gave that attitude to me after my girlfriend had lied and fucked around this way I would probably give that person the beatdown of their life. In what world is it ok to be such an incredibly inhumane douchebag fratboy that you actually say such shit. Would you preffer it if he was "cool and badass" and bought a gun and gunned down our well loved gamers? Is that the kind of reaction that makes him a man instead of a wimp? God that attitude is despicable. Regardless of whether his actions are unacceptable or not. You do not put a guy on blast for not getting violent with the situation. That is simply retarded.
I don´t know about gunning people down, but I think a good old bar brawl was more than warranted if CatZ or any of the guys involved were crossing some lines with his girlfriend.
Speaking for myself here, if anyone, regardless of his size or number of his party, continually behaved in a way I deemed inappropriate towards my girlfriend in disregard of any warnings I may give him would be met with the maximum amount of unarmed physical violence available to me swiftly and decisively, without even a hint of consideration for my own physical integrity.
Have done so in the past, would do it again.
So many stronk alfa males lurking TL, I'm deeply impressed.
I do not understand how this makes me "strong" or "alpha" in any way. I just do not see any other possible course of action in this situation if they do not cease and desist from their actions after being given many warnings.
You're a savage living in another century. In the West, we don't use violence, we sue people! Now in this case it might not be optimal to do that, so the fellow told the whole story and got a bigillion replies/attention, which has hurt Ret's reputation more than what a "good ol' beating" would have.
As for the girl, she is now gonna be known as a slut (in the sc community). Thats just the way it is. I'd say his approach was a lot better than what you suggested in your macho way.
Where I am from, the law does not concern itself with trivial matters such as a barfight (unless there serious consequences eg. death, severe injury), or it is too slow and corrupt to be of any use anyway. When people refuse to respect you through simple reasoning and talking, you have to resort to violence to make them respect you, or else they will walk all over you (like what happened to the poor dude in this story). And with regards to hurting Ret´s reputation (just saying ret for the sake of example, could be any given person) I would be much more satisfied pummeling his face into the ground than I would ever be by "hurting his reputation" in an online forum, lol. Additionally, hurting his reputation occurs after the fact, violence will deter the fact from happening or make it worse, depending on the outcome of the fight.
On June 09 2011 16:41 StarBrift wrote: I don't really know why this makes me so angry. Usually I can detach from these kinds of deals but I guess when you idolize a player it's harder to detach. I'm literally fuming about some of the attitudes people have here and more commonly on reddit about this.
The attitude that "LOL this dude is a loser and a whimp why doesnt he act out" is actually so detestable that it's hard to put into words. If someone gave that attitude to me after my girlfriend had lied and fucked around this way I would probably give that person the beatdown of their life. In what world is it ok to be such an incredibly inhumane douchebag fratboy that you actually say such shit. Would you preffer it if he was "cool and badass" and bought a gun and gunned down our well loved gamers? Is that the kind of reaction that makes him a man instead of a wimp? God that attitude is despicable. Regardless of whether his actions are unacceptable or not. You do not put a guy on blast for not getting violent with the situation. That is simply retarded.
I don´t know about gunning people down, but I think a good old bar brawl was more than warranted if CatZ or any of the guys involved were crossing some lines with his girlfriend.
Speaking for myself here, if anyone, regardless of his size or number of his party, continually behaved in a way I deemed inappropriate towards my girlfriend in disregard of any warnings I may give him would be met with the maximum amount of unarmed physical violence available to me swiftly and decisively, without even a hint of consideration for my own physical integrity.
Have done so in the past, would do it again.
So many stronk alfa males lurking TL, I'm deeply impressed.
I do not understand how this makes me "strong" or "alpha" in any way. I just do not see any other possible course of action in this situation if they do not cease and desist from their actions after being given many warnings.
You're a savage living in another century. In the West, we don't use violence, we sue people! Now in this case it might not be optimal to do that, so the fellow told the whole story and got a bigillion replies/attention, which has hurt Ret's reputation more than what a "good ol' beating" would have.
As for the girl, she is now gonna be known as a slut (in the sc community). Thats just the way it is. I'd say his approach was a lot better than what you suggested in your macho way.
Where I am from, the law does not concern itself with trivial matters such as a barfight (unless there serious consequences eg. death, severe injury), or it is too slow and corrupt to be of any use anyway. When people refuse to respect you through simple reasoning and talking, you have to resort to violence to make them respect you, or else they will walk all over you (like what happened to the poor dude in this story). And with regards to hurting Ret´s reputation (just saying ret for the sake of example, could be any given person) I would be much more satisfied pummeling his face into the ground than I would ever be by "hurting his reputation" in an online forum, lol. Additionally, hurting his reputation occurs after the fact, violence will deter the fact from happening or make it worse, depending on the outcome of the fight.
I see no reason for a fight to ever result in less than grievous bodily harm or death, you realise this is why people don't fight in the first place? If you're too weak to do that then you shouldn't be fighting in the first place.
On June 09 2011 16:41 StarBrift wrote: I don't really know why this makes me so angry. Usually I can detach from these kinds of deals but I guess when you idolize a player it's harder to detach. I'm literally fuming about some of the attitudes people have here and more commonly on reddit about this.
The attitude that "LOL this dude is a loser and a whimp why doesnt he act out" is actually so detestable that it's hard to put into words. If someone gave that attitude to me after my girlfriend had lied and fucked around this way I would probably give that person the beatdown of their life. In what world is it ok to be such an incredibly inhumane douchebag fratboy that you actually say such shit. Would you preffer it if he was "cool and badass" and bought a gun and gunned down our well loved gamers? Is that the kind of reaction that makes him a man instead of a wimp? God that attitude is despicable. Regardless of whether his actions are unacceptable or not. You do not put a guy on blast for not getting violent with the situation. That is simply retarded.
I don´t know about gunning people down, but I think a good old bar brawl was more than warranted if CatZ or any of the guys involved were crossing some lines with his girlfriend.
Speaking for myself here, if anyone, regardless of his size or number of his party, continually behaved in a way I deemed inappropriate towards my girlfriend in disregard of any warnings I may give him would be met with the maximum amount of unarmed physical violence available to me swiftly and decisively, without even a hint of consideration for my own physical integrity.
Have done so in the past, would do it again.
So many stronk alfa males lurking TL, I'm deeply impressed.
I do not understand how this makes me "strong" or "alpha" in any way. I just do not see any other possible course of action in this situation if they do not cease and desist from their actions after being given many warnings.
You're a savage living in another century. In the West, we don't use violence, we sue people! Now in this case it might not be optimal to do that, so the fellow told the whole story and got a bigillion replies/attention, which has hurt Ret's reputation more than what a "good ol' beating" would have.
As for the girl, she is now gonna be known as a slut (in the sc community). Thats just the way it is. I'd say his approach was a lot better than what you suggested in your macho way.
Where I am from, the law does not concern itself with trivial matters such as a barfight (unless there serious consequences eg. death, severe injury), or it is too slow and corrupt to be of any use anyway. When people refuse to respect you through simple reasoning and talking, you have to resort to violence to make them respect you, or else they will walk all over you (like what happened to the poor dude in this story). And with regards to hurting Ret´s reputation (just saying ret for the sake of example, could be any given person) I would be much more satisfied pummeling his face into the ground than I would ever be by "hurting his reputation" in an online forum, lol. Additionally, hurting his reputation occurs after the fact, violence will deter the fact from happening or make it worse, depending on the outcome of the fight.
I see no reason for a fight to ever result in less than grievous bodily harm or death, you realise this is why people don't fight in the first place? If you're too weak to do that then you shouldn't be fighting in the first place.
I never claimed that, I only claimed that death and grievous bodily harm are the only cases in which argentine law will act with regards to a barfight, as opposed to the U.S. for example where you can be charged with battery by throwing a single punch. Technically you can be sued in Argentina but it would never happen, this is besides the point though.
I am not saying that fighting is the best course of action, I am saying that sometimes it is a necessary course of action if it comes to a point where all other options are exhausted or the actions of the person are serious enough to warrant inmediate retaliation with full force.
For example, if I am at a bar with my girlfriend and a dude purposefully grabs her ass, my inmediate reaction would be to punch him in the face as hard as I can, and continue until he is subdued.
If he were hitting on my girl, I would explain what the situation is and ask him to desist, if he does not comply I would threaten him with the possibility of physical violence. If he continues, then I would fight him, absolutely. But as you can see, there are at least 2 instances prior to that where I am actively trying to avoid the fight. Sometimes, you just cant.
I can't believe some of you think this will hurt Ret's reputation. What did he honestly do that's so grievous? The only thing I can see that's stupid is he made some dumb puppy love/desperate move trying to fly her out. Other than that, who cares if he made a play at some random chick that lives 3000 miles away from him? If a dude that's willing to pony up $1600 to fly some chick out to see him (in other words very inexperienced with women or desperate, neither of which are qualities that a girl that's worth a damn will find attractive), is able to pick her up then he did this guy a favor.
This has nothing to do with SC other than the fact they were there for a tournament. Good for him bagging the chick regardless of whether she had a boyfriend or not, bad for him taking it way too far afterwards. I've run into plenty of girls that tell me they have boyfriends. Funny how easily the story can change a couple hours later when you find out it's either a defensive mechanism and they're down to do the dirty or they're down regardless. Some of you have a real beta male attitude towards females.
On June 10 2011 04:24 Disp wrote: I can't believe some of you think this will hurt Ret's reputation.
Just judging from this thread there are people dissappointed in his behaviour. Its not something one has to believe/think, its something one can see reading this thread.
Ok, so 20 people are upset about it, and 5,000 probably don't give a crap. Your point? This won't hurt his reputation at all besides making him look inexperienced with women, which is not something uncommon for a young guy, and easily remedied.
On June 10 2011 04:35 Disp wrote: Ok, so 20 people are upset about it, and 5,000 probably don't give a crap. Your point? This won't hurt his reputation at all besides making him look inexperienced with women, which is not something uncommon for a young guy, and easily remedied.
To what degree his reputation is hurt isn't really relevant. What I said was that this hurt his reputation more than what an attempt to hit him in the face would have. He has been to this thread showing obvious concern about it so the fear of losing his reputation is damage in it of itself.
I'm not saying I care, I'm not saying his reputation is forever broken, I quite agree with you how it makes him look. What I would say, though, I'm quite sure not all people who are dissappointed with him will make a post about it.
Let me be clear. I don't give a shit about what that girl and Jos did or did not do. It doesn't affect the way I perceive him. What is certain is that some people took offense to it. Degree is not relevant as to what I said. This "scandal" (lolol) has hurt him more than it has gained him.
On June 09 2011 16:41 StarBrift wrote: I don't really know why this makes me so angry. Usually I can detach from these kinds of deals but I guess when you idolize a player it's harder to detach. I'm literally fuming about some of the attitudes people have here and more commonly on reddit about this.
The attitude that "LOL this dude is a loser and a whimp why doesnt he act out" is actually so detestable that it's hard to put into words. If someone gave that attitude to me after my girlfriend had lied and fucked around this way I would probably give that person the beatdown of their life. In what world is it ok to be such an incredibly inhumane douchebag fratboy that you actually say such shit. Would you preffer it if he was "cool and badass" and bought a gun and gunned down our well loved gamers? Is that the kind of reaction that makes him a man instead of a wimp? God that attitude is despicable. Regardless of whether his actions are unacceptable or not. You do not put a guy on blast for not getting violent with the situation. That is simply retarded.
I don´t know about gunning people down, but I think a good old bar brawl was more than warranted if CatZ or any of the guys involved were crossing some lines with his girlfriend.
Speaking for myself here, if anyone, regardless of his size or number of his party, continually behaved in a way I deemed inappropriate towards my girlfriend in disregard of any warnings I may give him would be met with the maximum amount of unarmed physical violence available to me swiftly and decisively, without even a hint of consideration for my own physical integrity.
Have done so in the past, would do it again.
So many stronk alfa males lurking TL, I'm deeply impressed.
I do not understand how this makes me "strong" or "alpha" in any way. I just do not see any other possible course of action in this situation if they do not cease and desist from their actions after being given many warnings.
You're a savage living in another century. In the West, we don't use violence, we sue people! Now in this case it might not be optimal to do that, so the fellow told the whole story and got a bigillion replies/attention, which has hurt Ret's reputation more than what a "good ol' beating" would have.
As for the girl, she is now gonna be known as a slut (in the sc community). Thats just the way it is. I'd say his approach was a lot better than what you suggested in your macho way.
Where I am from, the law does not concern itself with trivial matters such as a barfight (unless there serious consequences eg. death, severe injury), or it is too slow and corrupt to be of any use anyway. When people refuse to respect you through simple reasoning and talking, you have to resort to violence to make them respect you, or else they will walk all over you (like what happened to the poor dude in this story). And with regards to hurting Ret´s reputation (just saying ret for the sake of example, could be any given person) I would be much more satisfied pummeling his face into the ground than I would ever be by "hurting his reputation" in an online forum, lol. Additionally, hurting his reputation occurs after the fact, violence will deter the fact from happening or make it worse, depending on the outcome of the fight.
I see no reason for a fight to ever result in less than grievous bodily harm or death, you realise this is why people don't fight in the first place? If you're too weak to do that then you shouldn't be fighting in the first place.
I never claimed that, I only claimed that death and grievous bodily harm are the only cases in which argentine law will act with regards to a barfight, as opposed to the U.S. for example where you can be charged with battery by throwing a single punch. Technically you can be sued in Argentina but it would never happen, this is besides the point though.
I am not saying that fighting is the best course of action, I am saying that sometimes it is a necessary course of action if it comes to a point where all other options are exhausted or the actions of the person are serious enough to warrant inmediate retaliation with full force.
For example, if I am at a bar with my girlfriend and a dude purposefully grabs her ass, my inmediate reaction would be to punch him in the face as hard as I can, and continue until he is subdued.
If he were hitting on my girl, I would explain what the situation is and ask him to desist, if he does not comply I would threaten him with the possibility of physical violence. If he continues, then I would fight him, absolutely. But as you can see, there are at least 2 instances prior to that where I am actively trying to avoid the fight. Sometimes, you just cant.
only problem is that your analogies here are flawed because they're situations where the guys are making unwarranted passes at your girl. in this situation, the girl is the one who approached and initiated the inappropriate behavior, in which case there's really nothing wrong with the other guy in question's action and has everything to do with the girl. Proper response here wasn't to flip out on Ret/Catz but instead to see the warning signs that your girlfriend doesn't give a flying fuck about you and detach from her immediately. Like, both your scenarios are at least semi-reasonable to me, but I just don't think they're accurate models for talking about what went down here. *shrugs* at least that's my take.
On June 09 2011 16:41 StarBrift wrote: I don't really know why this makes me so angry. Usually I can detach from these kinds of deals but I guess when you idolize a player it's harder to detach. I'm literally fuming about some of the attitudes people have here and more commonly on reddit about this.
The attitude that "LOL this dude is a loser and a whimp why doesnt he act out" is actually so detestable that it's hard to put into words. If someone gave that attitude to me after my girlfriend had lied and fucked around this way I would probably give that person the beatdown of their life. In what world is it ok to be such an incredibly inhumane douchebag fratboy that you actually say such shit. Would you preffer it if he was "cool and badass" and bought a gun and gunned down our well loved gamers? Is that the kind of reaction that makes him a man instead of a wimp? God that attitude is despicable. Regardless of whether his actions are unacceptable or not. You do not put a guy on blast for not getting violent with the situation. That is simply retarded.
I don´t know about gunning people down, but I think a good old bar brawl was more than warranted if CatZ or any of the guys involved were crossing some lines with his girlfriend.
Speaking for myself here, if anyone, regardless of his size or number of his party, continually behaved in a way I deemed inappropriate towards my girlfriend in disregard of any warnings I may give him would be met with the maximum amount of unarmed physical violence available to me swiftly and decisively, without even a hint of consideration for my own physical integrity.
Have done so in the past, would do it again.
So many stronk alfa males lurking TL, I'm deeply impressed.
I do not understand how this makes me "strong" or "alpha" in any way. I just do not see any other possible course of action in this situation if they do not cease and desist from their actions after being given many warnings.
You're a savage living in another century. In the West, we don't use violence, we sue people! Now in this case it might not be optimal to do that, so the fellow told the whole story and got a bigillion replies/attention, which has hurt Ret's reputation more than what a "good ol' beating" would have.
As for the girl, she is now gonna be known as a slut (in the sc community). Thats just the way it is. I'd say his approach was a lot better than what you suggested in your macho way.
Where I am from, the law does not concern itself with trivial matters such as a barfight (unless there serious consequences eg. death, severe injury), or it is too slow and corrupt to be of any use anyway. When people refuse to respect you through simple reasoning and talking, you have to resort to violence to make them respect you, or else they will walk all over you (like what happened to the poor dude in this story). And with regards to hurting Ret´s reputation (just saying ret for the sake of example, could be any given person) I would be much more satisfied pummeling his face into the ground than I would ever be by "hurting his reputation" in an online forum, lol. Additionally, hurting his reputation occurs after the fact, violence will deter the fact from happening or make it worse, depending on the outcome of the fight.
I see no reason for a fight to ever result in less than grievous bodily harm or death, you realise this is why people don't fight in the first place? If you're too weak to do that then you shouldn't be fighting in the first place.
I never claimed that, I only claimed that death and grievous bodily harm are the only cases in which argentine law will act with regards to a barfight, as opposed to the U.S. for example where you can be charged with battery by throwing a single punch. Technically you can be sued in Argentina but it would never happen, this is besides the point though.
I am not saying that fighting is the best course of action, I am saying that sometimes it is a necessary course of action if it comes to a point where all other options are exhausted or the actions of the person are serious enough to warrant inmediate retaliation with full force.
For example, if I am at a bar with my girlfriend and a dude purposefully grabs her ass, my inmediate reaction would be to punch him in the face as hard as I can, and continue until he is subdued.
If he were hitting on my girl, I would explain what the situation is and ask him to desist, if he does not comply I would threaten him with the possibility of physical violence. If he continues, then I would fight him, absolutely. But as you can see, there are at least 2 instances prior to that where I am actively trying to avoid the fight. Sometimes, you just cant.
only problem is that your analogies here are flawed because they're situations where the guys are making unwarranted passes at your girl. in this situation, the girl is the one who approached and initiated the inappropriate behavior, in which case there's really nothing wrong with the other guy in question's action and has everything to do with the girl. Proper response here wasn't to flip out on Ret/Catz but instead to see the warning signs that your girlfriend doesn't give a flying fuck about you and detach from her immediately. Like, both your scenarios are at least semi-reasonable to me, but I just don't think they're accurate models for talking about what went down here. *shrugs* at least that's my take.
What should have happened in this situation is:
1) The dude should have spoken to his GF and made his expectations (eg. not flirt with other dudes) perfectly clear. 2) Approached Ret/CatZ and made his position crystal clear. 3) Attempt to resolve the situation with the girl, and if she states she wants to be with Ret/CatZ then of course dump her and carry on with life. 4) If Ret/CatZ attempt to interfere while in the process of figuring out the situation (Eg. white knighting) , tell them not to interfere further. 5) if they interfere further, engage in gradually escalating physical violence until they cease or the girl decides to side with them.
But I would definitely not allow them to hook up with my girlfriend while in my presence, regardless if she wants it or not.
if you ever have to make the expectation that your girlfriend won't hook up with other guys clear to her, chances are you probably shouldn't be dating said girl. at least that's how I see it.
On June 10 2011 05:12 Mogwai wrote: if you ever have to make the expectation that your girlfriend won't hook up with other guys clear to her, chances are you probably shouldn't be dating said girl. at least that's how I see it.
I agree completely, it should never come to that. But, to my knowledge, the situation reached the point I described in my previous post and that is the way I would have handled if I were in that exact same situation.
But I would never let it get to that point, no way, you are 100% right in that.
On June 10 2011 04:51 Ballack wrote: To what degree his reputation is hurt isn't really relevant. What I said was that this hurt his reputation more than what an attempt to hit him in the face would have. He has been to this thread showing obvious concern about it so the fear of losing his reputation is damage in it of itself.
I agree, it's definitely not going to help him. My point is, Idra pulled some of the stupidest crap we've seen in a tournament towards the end of this MLG; actions that really upset a lot of his fans. That didn't stop his stream from getting 10,000 viewers last night though. It's all just a drop in the bucket, and the effect on his popularity and number of fans will be negligible.
On June 09 2011 16:41 StarBrift wrote: I don't really know why this makes me so angry. Usually I can detach from these kinds of deals but I guess when you idolize a player it's harder to detach. I'm literally fuming about some of the attitudes people have here and more commonly on reddit about this.
The attitude that "LOL this dude is a loser and a whimp why doesnt he act out" is actually so detestable that it's hard to put into words. If someone gave that attitude to me after my girlfriend had lied and fucked around this way I would probably give that person the beatdown of their life. In what world is it ok to be such an incredibly inhumane douchebag fratboy that you actually say such shit. Would you preffer it if he was "cool and badass" and bought a gun and gunned down our well loved gamers? Is that the kind of reaction that makes him a man instead of a wimp? God that attitude is despicable. Regardless of whether his actions are unacceptable or not. You do not put a guy on blast for not getting violent with the situation. That is simply retarded.
I don´t know about gunning people down, but I think a good old bar brawl was more than warranted if CatZ or any of the guys involved were crossing some lines with his girlfriend.
Speaking for myself here, if anyone, regardless of his size or number of his party, continually behaved in a way I deemed inappropriate towards my girlfriend in disregard of any warnings I may give him would be met with the maximum amount of unarmed physical violence available to me swiftly and decisively, without even a hint of consideration for my own physical integrity.
Have done so in the past, would do it again.
So many stronk alfa males lurking TL, I'm deeply impressed.
I do not understand how this makes me "strong" or "alpha" in any way. I just do not see any other possible course of action in this situation if they do not cease and desist from their actions after being given many warnings.
You're a savage living in another century. In the West, we don't use violence, we sue people! Now in this case it might not be optimal to do that, so the fellow told the whole story and got a bigillion replies/attention, which has hurt Ret's reputation more than what a "good ol' beating" would have.
As for the girl, she is now gonna be known as a slut (in the sc community). Thats just the way it is. I'd say his approach was a lot better than what you suggested in your macho way.
Where I am from, the law does not concern itself with trivial matters such as a barfight (unless there serious consequences eg. death, severe injury), or it is too slow and corrupt to be of any use anyway. When people refuse to respect you through simple reasoning and talking, you have to resort to violence to make them respect you, or else they will walk all over you (like what happened to the poor dude in this story). And with regards to hurting Ret´s reputation (just saying ret for the sake of example, could be any given person) I would be much more satisfied pummeling his face into the ground than I would ever be by "hurting his reputation" in an online forum, lol. Additionally, hurting his reputation occurs after the fact, violence will deter the fact from happening or make it worse, depending on the outcome of the fight.
I see no reason for a fight to ever result in less than grievous bodily harm or death, you realise this is why people don't fight in the first place? If you're too weak to do that then you shouldn't be fighting in the first place.
I never claimed that, I only claimed that death and grievous bodily harm are the only cases in which argentine law will act with regards to a barfight, as opposed to the U.S. for example where you can be charged with battery by throwing a single punch. Technically you can be sued in Argentina but it would never happen, this is besides the point though.
I am not saying that fighting is the best course of action, I am saying that sometimes it is a necessary course of action if it comes to a point where all other options are exhausted or the actions of the person are serious enough to warrant inmediate retaliation with full force.
For example, if I am at a bar with my girlfriend and a dude purposefully grabs her ass, my inmediate reaction would be to punch him in the face as hard as I can, and continue until he is subdued.
If he were hitting on my girl, I would explain what the situation is and ask him to desist, if he does not comply I would threaten him with the possibility of physical violence. If he continues, then I would fight him, absolutely. But as you can see, there are at least 2 instances prior to that where I am actively trying to avoid the fight. Sometimes, you just cant.
only problem is that your analogies here are flawed because they're situations where the guys are making unwarranted passes at your girl. in this situation, the girl is the one who approached and initiated the inappropriate behavior, in which case there's really nothing wrong with the other guy in question's action and has everything to do with the girl. Proper response here wasn't to flip out on Ret/Catz but instead to see the warning signs that your girlfriend doesn't give a flying fuck about you and detach from her immediately. Like, both your scenarios are at least semi-reasonable to me, but I just don't think they're accurate models for talking about what went down here. *shrugs* at least that's my take.
The guys are still in the wrong. They could have refused her. Apparently she tried to hook up with Destiny but was rejected [read that somewhere in this thread or on reddit].
On June 10 2011 05:18 frogmelter wrote: The guys are still in the wrong. They could have refused her. Apparently she tried to hook up with Destiny but was rejected [read that somewhere in this thread or on reddit].
It takes two to cheat
Maybe I'm unique, but when I'm on a trip in a different state or country with some of my good friends and at a bar, the last thing I'm wondering or caring about is if the girl that's into me has a boyfriend .
The girl is 100% in the wrong. People do stupid stuff when they get drunk, but when it happens 2 nights in a row it's not just some drunken mistake. Catz and Ret are just guys, and if you're getting mad at them for going after some cute chick when they're a bit tipsy then you may as well be mad at the entire male sex for having a dick. If it wasn't Ret and Catz it would've been 2 other dudes, because that's just the way the male brain works. For most guys anyways...not sure about some of you.
I agree with Disp here. In my opinion, the whole "it takes two to cheat" saying is a way for people who have been cheated on to redirect blame from the person they had/still have feelings for onto someone for whom them have no feelings. in other words a way to blame someone other than their girlfriend for cheating on them. situation is a bit different if the cheating is with someone the guy knows, but these are just random guys being approached by a random girl who's expressing interest. it's neither their concern or their fault that the girl has a boyfriend that she has decided to cheat on.
EDIT: I still chuckle every time I look at this thread's Title or OP.
Well it's awesome that even SC2 players who haven't accomplished anything get groupies. Serious e-sports growth :D
As for the particular stories, the girl can do whatever she wants although it's awfully disrespectful and she's obviously a bit crazy. Dating doesn't come with any obligations. I just think the $1600 thing is insane and sad... But you know, there's stories of girls putting out for WoW gold and stuff - so heh, if that's how you roll...
Now that Ret knows what kind of girl she is, maybe he'll be careful. Groupies do have this one particular "use".
On June 10 2011 05:49 Mogwai wrote: I agree with Disp here. In my opinion, the whole "it takes two to cheat" saying is a way for people who have been cheated on to redirect blame from the person they had/still have feelings for onto someone for whom them have no feelings. in other words a way to blame someone other than their girlfriend for cheating on them. situation is a bit different if the cheating is with someone the guy knows, but these are just random guys being approached by a random girl who's expressing interest. it's neither their concern or their fault that the girl has a boyfriend that she has decided to cheat on.
EDIT: I still chuckle every time I look at this thread's Title or OP.
I think it needs to be said again, both Ret/Catz met the bf on day 1 as her bf. So in this case it really did take 2 to cheat since they both knew.
On June 10 2011 05:12 Mogwai wrote: if you ever have to make the expectation that your girlfriend won't hook up with other guys clear to her, chances are you probably shouldn't be dating said girl. at least that's how I see it.
well, ok, assuming they knew, that means that had I personally been in their shoes, I would not have acted the way they did. however, I still don't think they're really at any fault.
I seriously hope that the Swedish girls will step up at Dreamhack. If the players get perks as this at MLG we shouldn’t be worse (and we have prettier girls ; ) .
people tend to forget that things like this are always going to happen. it's just human nature, the posting on reddit is all scorned lover behavior. i think no one is to blame really, probably the girl is a bit skanky if she would just jump up a plane to the Netherlands on a whim so no loss for the ex-bf there
This is probably the most ridiculous thing I have ever read. Why would you wait to get home, and post all of this on the internet? Would it not be more beneficial to solve this in person? It just baffles me that you would be that much of a coward to not only do all of this on the internet, but to continually invade the privacy of your ex g/f.
I understand that what she did was sleezy, or however you want to put it, but to try to expose ret and catz on the internet, rather than be a man and handle it as such is just stupid. As for ret, the man can do whatever the fuck he wants and has no reason to explain anything to anyone.
I'd be super pissed if I were Catz. Catz was such good mannered and well tempered in my opinion, especially stating how other players were late too and they got to play all their matches!
On June 09 2011 10:38 Munk-E wrote: $1,600?!?! RET! C'mon man! you don't seem to understand the concept of groupies!
Anywho, I personally see nothing wrong with it. Think about this though: the guy has catz in his house, and his first response is break up with his girlfriend? I mean, I would've used her to get close to all the pros myself.
the guy did the right thing, I would have dumped that whore and moved on, I mean come on
I even warned catz, it was crystal clear she was a little insecure fan with dad issues from how easy she seemed to be from catz story
I'm also not sure what ret did wrong there (besides buying her a ticket to fly her over, which isnt wrong but a bit... needy?)
On June 09 2011 10:38 Munk-E wrote: $1,600?!?! RET! C'mon man! you don't seem to understand the concept of groupies!
Anywho, I personally see nothing wrong with it. Think about this though: the guy has catz in his house, and his first response is break up with his girlfriend? I mean, I would've used her to get close to all the pros myself.
the guy did the right thing, I would have dumped that whore and moved on, I mean come on
I even warned catz, it was crystal clear she was a little insecure fan with dad issues from how easy she seemed to be from catz story
I'm also not sure what ret did wrong there (besides buying her a ticket to fly her over, which isnt wrong but a bit... needy?)
either way rek is sick troll :D
I think this blog can be closed now. This is GOLD.
On June 10 2011 12:33 freeloader625 wrote: I'd be super pissed if I were Catz. Catz was such good mannered and well tempered in my opinion, especially stating how other players were late too and they got to play all their matches!
Have you ignored the entire thread besides the first post? t.t And fayth, why did you edit out that picture? Seems like the ex boyfriend vanished and nobody knows what happened to the girl, whether she is in the Netherlands or not (probably not).
On June 09 2011 10:38 Munk-E wrote: $1,600?!?! RET! C'mon man! you don't seem to understand the concept of groupies!
Anywho, I personally see nothing wrong with it. Think about this though: the guy has catz in his house, and his first response is break up with his girlfriend? I mean, I would've used her to get close to all the pros myself.
I even warned catz, it was crystal clear she was a little insecure fan with dad issues from how easy she seemed to be from catz story
Why would that need a warning? Given those observations it's a green light to go for it.
On June 09 2011 10:38 Munk-E wrote: $1,600?!?! RET! C'mon man! you don't seem to understand the concept of groupies!
Anywho, I personally see nothing wrong with it. Think about this though: the guy has catz in his house, and his first response is break up with his girlfriend? I mean, I would've used her to get close to all the pros myself.
I even warned catz, it was crystal clear she was a little insecure fan with dad issues from how easy she seemed to be from catz story
Why would that need a warning? Given those observations it's a green light to go for it.
Crazy girls make the best lays, since their insecurity translates into submission for fear of being dumped/ridiculed. Nevertheless, you should stay clear once the deed has been done lest drama and harassment will ensue.
I know that sex is a highly individual thing, but the notion that insecure girls are the best lays because they're more submissive.. there are several parts of that statement I am diametrically opposed to lol.
On June 10 2011 22:49 Liquid`Drone wrote: I know that sex is a highly individual thing, but the notion that insecure girls are the best lays because they're more submissive.. there are several parts of that statement I am diametrically opposed to lol.
Hmmm I could understand submission not being your cup of tea, but I would argue insecure girls are easier and are more willing to do whatever you want since their main goal would be to gain your acceptance.
These girls are the worst kind possible to be in a relationship with (clearly since they are off their rocker).
That being said, please do expand on how you are opposed to that statement.
On June 10 2011 22:49 Liquid`Drone wrote: I know that sex is a highly individual thing, but the notion that insecure girls are the best lays because they're more submissive.. there are several parts of that statement I am diametrically opposed to lol.
Hmmm I could understand submission not being your cup of tea, but I would argue insecure girls are easier and are more willing to do whatever you want since their main goal would be to gain your acceptance.
These girls are the worst kind possible to be in a relationship with (clearly since they are off their rocker).
That being said, please do expand on how you are opposed to that statement.
Plenty of not insecure girls are into being dominated, plus they won't harass you in the future, whereas a crazy/insecure girl might act ridiculous online or at future MLGs.
On June 10 2011 22:49 Liquid`Drone wrote: I know that sex is a highly individual thing, but the notion that insecure girls are the best lays because they're more submissive.. there are several parts of that statement I am diametrically opposed to lol.
Hmmm I could understand submission not being your cup of tea, but I would argue insecure girls are easier and are more willing to do whatever you want since their main goal would be to gain your acceptance.
These girls are the worst kind possible to be in a relationship with (clearly since they are off their rocker).
That being said, please do expand on how you are opposed to that statement.
Plenty of not insecure girls are into being dominated, plus they won't harass you in the future, whereas a crazy/insecure girl might act ridiculous online or at future MLGs.
Well, but I claim there is a substantially higher probability of a crazy girl being more submissive to sex and a wider variety of sexual practices than a normal average girl who is not crazy.
being into a wider variety of sexual practices is not about insecurity, it's about security. exception being is if your idea of good sex is making girls do stuff they actually don't want to do, but that would trigger some alarm clocks in my head.
On June 11 2011 01:06 Liquid`Drone wrote: being into a wider variety of sexual practices is not about insecurity, it's about security. exception being is if your idea of good sex is making girls do stuff they actually don't want to do, but that would trigger some alarm clocks in my head.
What you say about getting girls to do things they do not want is valid insofar as this is a premeditated act in which you force the situation through psychological and/or physical means, which is one thing.
You are correct in arguing that a wider variety of practices relates to security in some cases, but what I do argue is that insecurity makes girls do things they do not necessarily want to just to get the approval of their partner without this partner necessarily knowing that they do not want to engage in whatever they are doing.
This is the reason crazy groupie girls, jock girls etc etc will usually put out and go out of their way to satisfy their "targets" in order to get their approval and be with them. Thus, these dudes have the power to induce these girls into providing a wider array of sexual practices than is to be expected, under normal circumstances, from an average girl.
Consquentially, a crazy girl is more prone to provide easier and a wider variety of sex than an average non-crazy girl.
So to summarize: - Girl is slutty - Girl gets encouraged to be slutty by her boyfriend (seeing he posted shit online about her stripping on stream) - Girl meets het big idols and hooks up - The two players dont know she has a bf (is what it looks like) - Catz gets DENIED! - Ret becomes a victim of his genetalia - (ex)boyfriend cries on the internet, when hes just as bad as the girl - ..... - Profit for the communitie
On June 11 2011 02:24 Madoga wrote: So to summarize: - Girl is slutty - Girl gets encouraged to be slutty by her boyfriend (seeing he posted shit online about her stripping on stream) - Girl meets het big idols and hooks up - The two players dont know she has a bf (is what it looks like) - Catz gets DENIED! - Ret becomes a victim of his genetalia - (ex)boyfriend cries on the internet, when hes just as bad as the girl - ..... - Profit for the communitie
On June 09 2011 09:32 XenoKai wrote: Can someone PLEASE make a scumbag steve meme with rets picture and post here and on reddit? it would be an instant classic
Memes are not allowed here. It'd be off-putting and a terrible joke, do it yourself.
?? i dont remember it saying anything in the OP about not allowing memes and last time i checked you are not a fucking mod BROSEF
On September 13 2004 22:42 mensrea wrote: [*] Memes, even TL ones, are annoying. Don't 1a2a3a your way to posting over 9000 memes -- we will ban you. There are plenty of places to go if you want to see posters of people failing at things or a humorous caption appended to a photograph of a cat. TeamLiquid is not one of those places.
TL commandments... Please read it before posting...
Also, please respect your fellow forum mates
@rekrul: Okay, then please point out where I've made my errors in judgements. I'm willing to admit that I've made a mistake if you tell me where it is.
the only thing a progamer owes to his fans is to try his hardest to give them great games to watch
imo if the progamers really cared about the fans they'd give us more drama ^_^ -->drama sparks interest, interest drives the industry
On June 11 2011 09:30 Megaliskuu wrote: Man the girl is everywhere, in artosis' latest video shes walking with artosis and TLO on the way to the relay race rofl.
On June 11 2011 09:30 Megaliskuu wrote: Man the girl is everywhere, in artosis' latest video shes walking with artosis and TLO on the way to the relay race rofl.
Dang. So fangirls can hang with whatever progamers they want and us fanguys can't. i feel so sad.
Sure you can hang out with the progamers, but if you spend too much time around them or acting like you know them, you're a creeper and the annoying guy who gets in the way. Groupies don't have that effect because they do their cute little groupie things to be special
Regardless of who hooked up with who, and whether that's right or wrong. Paying for a flight, or paying for some of it, if under the pretense of possible sex, that's a bad move lol. Maybe that's not the case, but Ret seemingly said he did pay for some/all of it. That's a questionable decision haha.
On June 09 2011 16:41 StarBrift wrote: I don't really know why this makes me so angry. Usually I can detach from these kinds of deals but I guess when you idolize a player it's harder to detach. I'm literally fuming about some of the attitudes people have here and more commonly on reddit about this.
The attitude that "LOL this dude is a loser and a whimp why doesnt he act out" is actually so detestable that it's hard to put into words. If someone gave that attitude to me after my girlfriend had lied and fucked around this way I would probably give that person the beatdown of their life. In what world is it ok to be such an incredibly inhumane douchebag fratboy that you actually say such shit. Would you preffer it if he was "cool and badass" and bought a gun and gunned down our well loved gamers? Is that the kind of reaction that makes him a man instead of a wimp? God that attitude is despicable. Regardless of whether his actions are unacceptable or not. You do not put a guy on blast for not getting violent with the situation. That is simply retarded.
I don´t know about gunning people down, but I think a good old bar brawl was more than warranted if CatZ or any of the guys involved were crossing some lines with his girlfriend.
Speaking for myself here, if anyone, regardless of his size or number of his party, continually behaved in a way I deemed inappropriate towards my girlfriend in disregard of any warnings I may give him would be met with the maximum amount of unarmed physical violence available to me swiftly and decisively, without even a hint of consideration for my own physical integrity.
Have done so in the past, would do it again.
So many stronk alfa males lurking TL, I'm deeply impressed.
I do not understand how this makes me "strong" or "alpha" in any way. I just do not see any other possible course of action in this situation if they do not cease and desist from their actions after being given many warnings.
You're a savage living in another century. In the West, we don't use violence, we sue people! Now in this case it might not be optimal to do that, so the fellow told the whole story and got a bigillion replies/attention, which has hurt Ret's reputation more than what a "good ol' beating" would have.
As for the girl, she is now gonna be known as a slut (in the sc community). Thats just the way it is. I'd say his approach was a lot better than what you suggested in your macho way.
Where I am from, the law does not concern itself with trivial matters such as a barfight (unless there serious consequences eg. death, severe injury), or it is too slow and corrupt to be of any use anyway. When people refuse to respect you through simple reasoning and talking, you have to resort to violence to make them respect you, or else they will walk all over you (like what happened to the poor dude in this story). And with regards to hurting Ret´s reputation (just saying ret for the sake of example, could be any given person) I would be much more satisfied pummeling his face into the ground than I would ever be by "hurting his reputation" in an online forum, lol. Additionally, hurting his reputation occurs after the fact, violence will deter the fact from happening or make it worse, depending on the outcome of the fight.
lol jesus christ, chill the fuck down. Shit's really simple: Ret nor I did anything wrong, I met a cute girl at MLG, without her boyfriend there, then we had some drinks and had fun, later I learned she had a boyfriend, and later I learned they broke up according to her, and confirmed in the post.
I actually met her boyfriend after learning she had a boyfriend, he was quite a nice guy I thought. Out of respect to him, I avoided commenting on any of the threads, did she cheat on him? ya maybe... did she have her own reasons? maybe, but she's also a human being with the super-power of free will. Does this justify cheating? probably not. Should her bf break up with her if she cheated on him? I personally would.
I understand you're buff and super strong and all that, but relax buddy, your fist isn't gonna come on the other side of the screen to teach Ret and I ethics or teach the girl's bf how you do it in argentina, see people with half a brain usually prefer to settle things by talking. Also, I was not given any warning unfortunately, so your law of brute strenght doesn't apply there either.
You see when you have a girlfriend, what your brain should be thinking about is "I trust her enough that she won't cheat on me" your brain should not be thinking "IF I SEE MALE KISS HER, MAYBE ME PUNCH HIM SO SHE STAY WITH ME! ARGHH!" your fist doesn't get you respect, anywhere in the world, unless you make money off of punching people, that might get you respect from people who like watching the sport and admire your talents.
because you see from the guy's perspective that you'd walk up to in a bar and punch cause you're mad cool, he probably just met a cute girl and was having fun, and if you punch him like you do where you come from, maybe he'll get a gun and go shoot you and then all that respect... gone...
edit: this thread was actually supposed to be about my dq vs julyzerg, lol.
On June 09 2011 16:41 StarBrift wrote: I don't really know why this makes me so angry. Usually I can detach from these kinds of deals but I guess when you idolize a player it's harder to detach. I'm literally fuming about some of the attitudes people have here and more commonly on reddit about this.
The attitude that "LOL this dude is a loser and a whimp why doesnt he act out" is actually so detestable that it's hard to put into words. If someone gave that attitude to me after my girlfriend had lied and fucked around this way I would probably give that person the beatdown of their life. In what world is it ok to be such an incredibly inhumane douchebag fratboy that you actually say such shit. Would you preffer it if he was "cool and badass" and bought a gun and gunned down our well loved gamers? Is that the kind of reaction that makes him a man instead of a wimp? God that attitude is despicable. Regardless of whether his actions are unacceptable or not. You do not put a guy on blast for not getting violent with the situation. That is simply retarded.
I don´t know about gunning people down, but I think a good old bar brawl was more than warranted if CatZ or any of the guys involved were crossing some lines with his girlfriend.
Speaking for myself here, if anyone, regardless of his size or number of his party, continually behaved in a way I deemed inappropriate towards my girlfriend in disregard of any warnings I may give him would be met with the maximum amount of unarmed physical violence available to me swiftly and decisively, without even a hint of consideration for my own physical integrity.
Have done so in the past, would do it again.
So many stronk alfa males lurking TL, I'm deeply impressed.
I do not understand how this makes me "strong" or "alpha" in any way. I just do not see any other possible course of action in this situation if they do not cease and desist from their actions after being given many warnings.
You're a savage living in another century. In the West, we don't use violence, we sue people! Now in this case it might not be optimal to do that, so the fellow told the whole story and got a bigillion replies/attention, which has hurt Ret's reputation more than what a "good ol' beating" would have.
As for the girl, she is now gonna be known as a slut (in the sc community). Thats just the way it is. I'd say his approach was a lot better than what you suggested in your macho way.
Where I am from, the law does not concern itself with trivial matters such as a barfight (unless there serious consequences eg. death, severe injury), or it is too slow and corrupt to be of any use anyway. When people refuse to respect you through simple reasoning and talking, you have to resort to violence to make them respect you, or else they will walk all over you (like what happened to the poor dude in this story). And with regards to hurting Ret´s reputation (just saying ret for the sake of example, could be any given person) I would be much more satisfied pummeling his face into the ground than I would ever be by "hurting his reputation" in an online forum, lol. Additionally, hurting his reputation occurs after the fact, violence will deter the fact from happening or make it worse, depending on the outcome of the fight.
lol jesus christ, chill the fuck down. Shit's really simple: Ret nor I did anything wrong, I met a cute girl at MLG, without her boyfriend there, then we had some drinks and had fun, later I learned she had a boyfriend, and later I learned they broke up according to her, and confirmed in the post.
I actually met her boyfriend after learning she had a boyfriend, he was quite a nice guy I thought. Out of respect to him, I avoided commenting on any of the threads, did she cheat on him? ya maybe... did she have her own reasons? maybe, but she's also a human being with the super-power of free will. Does this justify cheating? probably not. Should her bf break up with her if she cheated on him? I personally would.
I understand you're buff and super strong and all that, but relax buddy, your fist isn't gonna come on the other side of the screen to teach Ret and I ethics or teach the girl's bf how you do it in argentina, see people with half a brain usually prefer to settle things by talking. Also, I was not given any warning unfortunately, so your law of brute strenght doesn't apply there either.
You see when you have a girlfriend, what your brain should be thinking about is "I trust her enough that she won't cheat on me" your brain should not be thinking "IF I SEE MALE KISS HER, MAYBE ME PUNCH HIM SO SHE STAY WITH ME! ARGHH!" your fist doesn't get you respect, anywhere in the world, unless you make money off of punching people, that might get you respect from people who like watching the sport and admire your talents.
because you see from the guy's perspective that you'd walk up to in a bar and punch cause you're mad cool, he probably just met a cute girl and was having fun, and if you punch him like you do where you come from, maybe he'll get a gun and go shoot you and then all that respect... gone...
edit: this thread was actually supposed to be about my dq vs julyzerg, lol.
nice reply, hope our argentinian friend finally shuts the fuck up (not gonna happen)
On June 09 2011 16:41 StarBrift wrote: I don't really know why this makes me so angry. Usually I can detach from these kinds of deals but I guess when you idolize a player it's harder to detach. I'm literally fuming about some of the attitudes people have here and more commonly on reddit about this.
The attitude that "LOL this dude is a loser and a whimp why doesnt he act out" is actually so detestable that it's hard to put into words. If someone gave that attitude to me after my girlfriend had lied and fucked around this way I would probably give that person the beatdown of their life. In what world is it ok to be such an incredibly inhumane douchebag fratboy that you actually say such shit. Would you preffer it if he was "cool and badass" and bought a gun and gunned down our well loved gamers? Is that the kind of reaction that makes him a man instead of a wimp? God that attitude is despicable. Regardless of whether his actions are unacceptable or not. You do not put a guy on blast for not getting violent with the situation. That is simply retarded.
I don´t know about gunning people down, but I think a good old bar brawl was more than warranted if CatZ or any of the guys involved were crossing some lines with his girlfriend.
Speaking for myself here, if anyone, regardless of his size or number of his party, continually behaved in a way I deemed inappropriate towards my girlfriend in disregard of any warnings I may give him would be met with the maximum amount of unarmed physical violence available to me swiftly and decisively, without even a hint of consideration for my own physical integrity.
Have done so in the past, would do it again.
So many stronk alfa males lurking TL, I'm deeply impressed.
I do not understand how this makes me "strong" or "alpha" in any way. I just do not see any other possible course of action in this situation if they do not cease and desist from their actions after being given many warnings.
You're a savage living in another century. In the West, we don't use violence, we sue people! Now in this case it might not be optimal to do that, so the fellow told the whole story and got a bigillion replies/attention, which has hurt Ret's reputation more than what a "good ol' beating" would have.
As for the girl, she is now gonna be known as a slut (in the sc community). Thats just the way it is. I'd say his approach was a lot better than what you suggested in your macho way.
Where I am from, the law does not concern itself with trivial matters such as a barfight (unless there serious consequences eg. death, severe injury), or it is too slow and corrupt to be of any use anyway. When people refuse to respect you through simple reasoning and talking, you have to resort to violence to make them respect you, or else they will walk all over you (like what happened to the poor dude in this story). And with regards to hurting Ret´s reputation (just saying ret for the sake of example, could be any given person) I would be much more satisfied pummeling his face into the ground than I would ever be by "hurting his reputation" in an online forum, lol. Additionally, hurting his reputation occurs after the fact, violence will deter the fact from happening or make it worse, depending on the outcome of the fight.
lol jesus christ, chill the fuck down. Shit's really simple: Ret nor I did anything wrong, I met a cute girl at MLG, without her boyfriend there, then we had some drinks and had fun, later I learned she had a boyfriend, and later I learned they broke up according to her, and confirmed in the post.
I actually met her boyfriend after learning she had a boyfriend, he was quite a nice guy I thought. Out of respect to him, I avoided commenting on any of the threads, did she cheat on him? ya maybe... did she have her own reasons? maybe, but she's also a human being with the super-power of free will. Does this justify cheating? probably not. Should her bf break up with her if she cheated on him? I personally would.
I understand you're buff and super strong and all that, but relax buddy, your fist isn't gonna come on the other side of the screen to teach Ret and I ethics or teach the girl's bf how you do it in argentina, see people with half a brain usually prefer to settle things by talking. Also, I was not given any warning unfortunately, so your law of brute strenght doesn't apply there either.
You see when you have a girlfriend, what your brain should be thinking about is "I trust her enough that she won't cheat on me" your brain should not be thinking "IF I SEE MALE KISS HER, MAYBE ME PUNCH HIM SO SHE STAY WITH ME! ARGHH!" your fist doesn't get you respect, anywhere in the world, unless you make money off of punching people, that might get you respect from people who like watching the sport and admire your talents.
because you see from the guy's perspective that you'd walk up to in a bar and punch cause you're mad cool, he probably just met a cute girl and was having fun, and if you punch him like you do where you come from, maybe he'll get a gun and go shoot you and then all that respect... gone...
edit: this thread was actually supposed to be about my dq vs julyzerg, lol.
On June 09 2011 16:41 StarBrift wrote: I don't really know why this makes me so angry. Usually I can detach from these kinds of deals but I guess when you idolize a player it's harder to detach. I'm literally fuming about some of the attitudes people have here and more commonly on reddit about this.
The attitude that "LOL this dude is a loser and a whimp why doesnt he act out" is actually so detestable that it's hard to put into words. If someone gave that attitude to me after my girlfriend had lied and fucked around this way I would probably give that person the beatdown of their life. In what world is it ok to be such an incredibly inhumane douchebag fratboy that you actually say such shit. Would you preffer it if he was "cool and badass" and bought a gun and gunned down our well loved gamers? Is that the kind of reaction that makes him a man instead of a wimp? God that attitude is despicable. Regardless of whether his actions are unacceptable or not. You do not put a guy on blast for not getting violent with the situation. That is simply retarded.
I don´t know about gunning people down, but I think a good old bar brawl was more than warranted if CatZ or any of the guys involved were crossing some lines with his girlfriend.
Speaking for myself here, if anyone, regardless of his size or number of his party, continually behaved in a way I deemed inappropriate towards my girlfriend in disregard of any warnings I may give him would be met with the maximum amount of unarmed physical violence available to me swiftly and decisively, without even a hint of consideration for my own physical integrity.
Have done so in the past, would do it again.
So many stronk alfa males lurking TL, I'm deeply impressed.
I do not understand how this makes me "strong" or "alpha" in any way. I just do not see any other possible course of action in this situation if they do not cease and desist from their actions after being given many warnings.
You're a savage living in another century. In the West, we don't use violence, we sue people! Now in this case it might not be optimal to do that, so the fellow told the whole story and got a bigillion replies/attention, which has hurt Ret's reputation more than what a "good ol' beating" would have.
As for the girl, she is now gonna be known as a slut (in the sc community). Thats just the way it is. I'd say his approach was a lot better than what you suggested in your macho way.
Where I am from, the law does not concern itself with trivial matters such as a barfight (unless there serious consequences eg. death, severe injury), or it is too slow and corrupt to be of any use anyway. When people refuse to respect you through simple reasoning and talking, you have to resort to violence to make them respect you, or else they will walk all over you (like what happened to the poor dude in this story). And with regards to hurting Ret´s reputation (just saying ret for the sake of example, could be any given person) I would be much more satisfied pummeling his face into the ground than I would ever be by "hurting his reputation" in an online forum, lol. Additionally, hurting his reputation occurs after the fact, violence will deter the fact from happening or make it worse, depending on the outcome of the fight.
lol jesus christ, chill the fuck down. Shit's really simple: Ret nor I did anything wrong, I met a cute girl at MLG, without her boyfriend there, then we had some drinks and had fun, later I learned she had a boyfriend, and later I learned they broke up according to her, and confirmed in the post.
I actually met her boyfriend after learning she had a boyfriend, he was quite a nice guy I thought. Out of respect to him, I avoided commenting on any of the threads, did she cheat on him? ya maybe... did she have her own reasons? maybe, but she's also a human being with the super-power of free will. Does this justify cheating? probably not. Should her bf break up with her if she cheated on him? I personally would.
I understand you're buff and super strong and all that, but relax buddy, your fist isn't gonna come on the other side of the screen to teach Ret and I ethics or teach the girl's bf how you do it in argentina, see people with half a brain usually prefer to settle things by talking. Also, I was not given any warning unfortunately, so your law of brute strenght doesn't apply there either.
You see when you have a girlfriend, what your brain should be thinking about is "I trust her enough that she won't cheat on me" your brain should not be thinking "IF I SEE MALE KISS HER, MAYBE ME PUNCH HIM SO SHE STAY WITH ME! ARGHH!" your fist doesn't get you respect, anywhere in the world, unless you make money off of punching people, that might get you respect from people who like watching the sport and admire your talents.
because you see from the guy's perspective that you'd walk up to in a bar and punch cause you're mad cool, he probably just met a cute girl and was having fun, and if you punch him like you do where you come from, maybe he'll get a gun and go shoot you and then all that respect... gone...
edit: this thread was actually supposed to be about my dq vs julyzerg, lol.
I was smiling all the way through the thread 'till I read Rekrul's statement about "assembling a plan to break the guy's legs or something".
Wtf, Rekrul, I thought you were way cooler than that broseph!
I mean, sure, if I caught her cheating in my house, I might snap and beat the guy up, if I was married or something more complicated, then yeah, I may overreact, but in this type of scenario, why in the world would you blame HIM for this? How is it the guy's fault that your lady is umm... open to new things?
Fuck, everyone is entitled to do whatever they want. If your partner wants to pick someone else, if your partner is dishonest, etc, then it's your choice to drop them. But I don't see how the person who they cheated with is of ANY blame. At all. Maybe if they were your friend or something, lol.
I agree with catz, that was a huge match for him. Its not only him that missed out on it either, its the entire community. I would have loved to see it, catz style is hard for anyone to play, even if you have had time to study it, let alone when your in a foreign country and have no idea what to expect.
I have to say that I'm a bit disappointed how Catz and Ret handled the situation. Especially Catz post on how he is blameless is really shady, since he has been warned about the girl at the MLG.I hope for him that he never gets into a situation where he's being cheated on.
Also it might be good advise for both Catz and Ret to get tested for STDs as soon as possible, and to stay clear of any sexual encounters until they have tested clean. No need to spread anything around.
On June 12 2011 23:42 Whit wrote: I hope for him that he never gets into a situation where he's being cheated on.
Also it might be good advise for both Catz and Ret to get tested for STDs as soon as possible, and to stay clear of any sexual encounters until they have tested clean. No need to spread anything around.
I'm sure both Catz and Ret appreciate that you made a TL account to warn/inform them.
On June 12 2011 23:42 Whit wrote: I hope for him that he never gets into a situation where he's being cheated on.
Also it might be good advise for both Catz and Ret to get tested for STDs as soon as possible, and to stay clear of any sexual encounters until they have tested clean. No need to spread anything around.
I'm sure both Catz and Ret appreciate that you made a TL account to warn/inform them.
Sigh the courts of the the TL trolls don't stop. Stop wasting time debating their personal issues here.
and ffs, anyone who says they would beat up the guy who is picking up his girl is a fool who cant handle the thought of being out macked by another male. Learn to judge character instead crying every time you pick up a crazy bitch.
On June 09 2011 16:41 StarBrift wrote: I don't really know why this makes me so angry. Usually I can detach from these kinds of deals but I guess when you idolize a player it's harder to detach. I'm literally fuming about some of the attitudes people have here and more commonly on reddit about this.
The attitude that "LOL this dude is a loser and a whimp why doesnt he act out" is actually so detestable that it's hard to put into words. If someone gave that attitude to me after my girlfriend had lied and fucked around this way I would probably give that person the beatdown of their life. In what world is it ok to be such an incredibly inhumane douchebag fratboy that you actually say such shit. Would you preffer it if he was "cool and badass" and bought a gun and gunned down our well loved gamers? Is that the kind of reaction that makes him a man instead of a wimp? God that attitude is despicable. Regardless of whether his actions are unacceptable or not. You do not put a guy on blast for not getting violent with the situation. That is simply retarded.
I don´t know about gunning people down, but I think a good old bar brawl was more than warranted if CatZ or any of the guys involved were crossing some lines with his girlfriend.
Speaking for myself here, if anyone, regardless of his size or number of his party, continually behaved in a way I deemed inappropriate towards my girlfriend in disregard of any warnings I may give him would be met with the maximum amount of unarmed physical violence available to me swiftly and decisively, without even a hint of consideration for my own physical integrity.
Have done so in the past, would do it again.
So many stronk alfa males lurking TL, I'm deeply impressed.
I do not understand how this makes me "strong" or "alpha" in any way. I just do not see any other possible course of action in this situation if they do not cease and desist from their actions after being given many warnings.
You're a savage living in another century. In the West, we don't use violence, we sue people! Now in this case it might not be optimal to do that, so the fellow told the whole story and got a bigillion replies/attention, which has hurt Ret's reputation more than what a "good ol' beating" would have.
As for the girl, she is now gonna be known as a slut (in the sc community). Thats just the way it is. I'd say his approach was a lot better than what you suggested in your macho way.
Where I am from, the law does not concern itself with trivial matters such as a barfight (unless there serious consequences eg. death, severe injury), or it is too slow and corrupt to be of any use anyway. When people refuse to respect you through simple reasoning and talking, you have to resort to violence to make them respect you, or else they will walk all over you (like what happened to the poor dude in this story). And with regards to hurting Ret´s reputation (just saying ret for the sake of example, could be any given person) I would be much more satisfied pummeling his face into the ground than I would ever be by "hurting his reputation" in an online forum, lol. Additionally, hurting his reputation occurs after the fact, violence will deter the fact from happening or make it worse, depending on the outcome of the fight.
lol jesus christ, chill the fuck down. Shit's really simple: Ret nor I did anything wrong, I met a cute girl at MLG, without her boyfriend there, then we had some drinks and had fun, later I learned she had a boyfriend, and later I learned they broke up according to her, and confirmed in the post.
I actually met her boyfriend after learning she had a boyfriend, he was quite a nice guy I thought. Out of respect to him, I avoided commenting on any of the threads, did she cheat on him? ya maybe... did she have her own reasons? maybe, but she's also a human being with the super-power of free will. Does this justify cheating? probably not. Should her bf break up with her if she cheated on him? I personally would.
I understand you're buff and super strong and all that, but relax buddy, your fist isn't gonna come on the other side of the screen to teach Ret and I ethics or teach the girl's bf how you do it in argentina, see people with half a brain usually prefer to settle things by talking. Also, I was not given any warning unfortunately, so your law of brute strenght doesn't apply there either.
You see when you have a girlfriend, what your brain should be thinking about is "I trust her enough that she won't cheat on me" your brain should not be thinking "IF I SEE MALE KISS HER, MAYBE ME PUNCH HIM SO SHE STAY WITH ME! ARGHH!" your fist doesn't get you respect, anywhere in the world, unless you make money off of punching people, that might get you respect from people who like watching the sport and admire your talents.
because you see from the guy's perspective that you'd walk up to in a bar and punch cause you're mad cool, he probably just met a cute girl and was having fun, and if you punch him like you do where you come from, maybe he'll get a gun and go shoot you and then all that respect... gone...
edit: this thread was actually supposed to be about my dq vs julyzerg, lol.
CatZ my man, if you had half a brain maybe you would comprehend what I am saying. What I said was that the ex boyfriend dude should just told her not to act in that way, and told you to back the fuck off his girlfriend. Then if you did not back off, THEN AND ONLY THEN should he have proceeded to fuck you up. So I condone violence if talking does not solve the problem.
Moreover, given that this did not happen (he did not say anything to you or the girl at that time) then, in my opinion, you are absolutely blameless and I would have done the exact same thing you did (and of course Ret is blameless through the same logic).
Bad news for e-sports, give progamers a bad name by portraying them as desperate virgins. Gained a whole lot of respect towards Destiny after reading the wholes story, very mature IRL compared to his BM (for fun) in games.
On June 09 2011 16:41 StarBrift wrote: I don't really know why this makes me so angry. Usually I can detach from these kinds of deals but I guess when you idolize a player it's harder to detach. I'm literally fuming about some of the attitudes people have here and more commonly on reddit about this.
The attitude that "LOL this dude is a loser and a whimp why doesnt he act out" is actually so detestable that it's hard to put into words. If someone gave that attitude to me after my girlfriend had lied and fucked around this way I would probably give that person the beatdown of their life. In what world is it ok to be such an incredibly inhumane douchebag fratboy that you actually say such shit. Would you preffer it if he was "cool and badass" and bought a gun and gunned down our well loved gamers? Is that the kind of reaction that makes him a man instead of a wimp? God that attitude is despicable. Regardless of whether his actions are unacceptable or not. You do not put a guy on blast for not getting violent with the situation. That is simply retarded.
I don´t know about gunning people down, but I think a good old bar brawl was more than warranted if CatZ or any of the guys involved were crossing some lines with his girlfriend.
Speaking for myself here, if anyone, regardless of his size or number of his party, continually behaved in a way I deemed inappropriate towards my girlfriend in disregard of any warnings I may give him would be met with the maximum amount of unarmed physical violence available to me swiftly and decisively, without even a hint of consideration for my own physical integrity.
Have done so in the past, would do it again.
So many stronk alfa males lurking TL, I'm deeply impressed.
I do not understand how this makes me "strong" or "alpha" in any way. I just do not see any other possible course of action in this situation if they do not cease and desist from their actions after being given many warnings.
You're a savage living in another century. In the West, we don't use violence, we sue people! Now in this case it might not be optimal to do that, so the fellow told the whole story and got a bigillion replies/attention, which has hurt Ret's reputation more than what a "good ol' beating" would have.
As for the girl, she is now gonna be known as a slut (in the sc community). Thats just the way it is. I'd say his approach was a lot better than what you suggested in your macho way.
Where I am from, the law does not concern itself with trivial matters such as a barfight (unless there serious consequences eg. death, severe injury), or it is too slow and corrupt to be of any use anyway. When people refuse to respect you through simple reasoning and talking, you have to resort to violence to make them respect you, or else they will walk all over you (like what happened to the poor dude in this story). And with regards to hurting Ret´s reputation (just saying ret for the sake of example, could be any given person) I would be much more satisfied pummeling his face into the ground than I would ever be by "hurting his reputation" in an online forum, lol. Additionally, hurting his reputation occurs after the fact, violence will deter the fact from happening or make it worse, depending on the outcome of the fight.
lol jesus christ, chill the fuck down. Shit's really simple: Ret nor I did anything wrong, I met a cute girl at MLG, without her boyfriend there, then we had some drinks and had fun, later I learned she had a boyfriend, and later I learned they broke up according to her, and confirmed in the post.
I actually met her boyfriend after learning she had a boyfriend, he was quite a nice guy I thought. Out of respect to him, I avoided commenting on any of the threads, did she cheat on him? ya maybe... did she have her own reasons? maybe, but she's also a human being with the super-power of free will. Does this justify cheating? probably not. Should her bf break up with her if she cheated on him? I personally would.
I understand you're buff and super strong and all that, but relax buddy, your fist isn't gonna come on the other side of the screen to teach Ret and I ethics or teach the girl's bf how you do it in argentina, see people with half a brain usually prefer to settle things by talking. Also, I was not given any warning unfortunately, so your law of brute strenght doesn't apply there either.
You see when you have a girlfriend, what your brain should be thinking about is "I trust her enough that she won't cheat on me" your brain should not be thinking "IF I SEE MALE KISS HER, MAYBE ME PUNCH HIM SO SHE STAY WITH ME! ARGHH!" your fist doesn't get you respect, anywhere in the world, unless you make money off of punching people, that might get you respect from people who like watching the sport and admire your talents.
because you see from the guy's perspective that you'd walk up to in a bar and punch cause you're mad cool, he probably just met a cute girl and was having fun, and if you punch him like you do where you come from, maybe he'll get a gun and go shoot you and then all that respect... gone...
edit: this thread was actually supposed to be about my dq vs julyzerg, lol.
CatZ my man, if you had half a brain maybe you would comprehend what I am saying. What I said was that the ex boyfriend dude should just told her not to act in that way, and told you to back the fuck off his girlfriend. Then if you did not back off, THEN AND ONLY THEN should he have proceeded to fuck you up. So I condone violence if talking does not solve the problem.
Moreover, given that this did not happen (he did not say anything to you or the girl at that time) then, in my opinion, you are absolutely blameless and I would have done the exact same thing you did (and of course Ret is blameless through the same logic).
So if your girlfriend can't keep her panties on, you will beat up all the guys she's trying to jump? Very smart, why solve the source of the issue when you can try to <endlessly> deal with the outcomes. Well, not endlessly, if that's your attitude, you will eventually mess with the wrong person, who will put you in the hospital, or in the ground.
On June 09 2011 16:41 StarBrift wrote: I don't really know why this makes me so angry. Usually I can detach from these kinds of deals but I guess when you idolize a player it's harder to detach. I'm literally fuming about some of the attitudes people have here and more commonly on reddit about this.
The attitude that "LOL this dude is a loser and a whimp why doesnt he act out" is actually so detestable that it's hard to put into words. If someone gave that attitude to me after my girlfriend had lied and fucked around this way I would probably give that person the beatdown of their life. In what world is it ok to be such an incredibly inhumane douchebag fratboy that you actually say such shit. Would you preffer it if he was "cool and badass" and bought a gun and gunned down our well loved gamers? Is that the kind of reaction that makes him a man instead of a wimp? God that attitude is despicable. Regardless of whether his actions are unacceptable or not. You do not put a guy on blast for not getting violent with the situation. That is simply retarded.
I don´t know about gunning people down, but I think a good old bar brawl was more than warranted if CatZ or any of the guys involved were crossing some lines with his girlfriend.
Speaking for myself here, if anyone, regardless of his size or number of his party, continually behaved in a way I deemed inappropriate towards my girlfriend in disregard of any warnings I may give him would be met with the maximum amount of unarmed physical violence available to me swiftly and decisively, without even a hint of consideration for my own physical integrity.
Have done so in the past, would do it again.
So many stronk alfa males lurking TL, I'm deeply impressed.
I do not understand how this makes me "strong" or "alpha" in any way. I just do not see any other possible course of action in this situation if they do not cease and desist from their actions after being given many warnings.
You're a savage living in another century. In the West, we don't use violence, we sue people! Now in this case it might not be optimal to do that, so the fellow told the whole story and got a bigillion replies/attention, which has hurt Ret's reputation more than what a "good ol' beating" would have.
As for the girl, she is now gonna be known as a slut (in the sc community). Thats just the way it is. I'd say his approach was a lot better than what you suggested in your macho way.
Where I am from, the law does not concern itself with trivial matters such as a barfight (unless there serious consequences eg. death, severe injury), or it is too slow and corrupt to be of any use anyway. When people refuse to respect you through simple reasoning and talking, you have to resort to violence to make them respect you, or else they will walk all over you (like what happened to the poor dude in this story). And with regards to hurting Ret´s reputation (just saying ret for the sake of example, could be any given person) I would be much more satisfied pummeling his face into the ground than I would ever be by "hurting his reputation" in an online forum, lol. Additionally, hurting his reputation occurs after the fact, violence will deter the fact from happening or make it worse, depending on the outcome of the fight.
lol jesus christ, chill the fuck down. Shit's really simple: Ret nor I did anything wrong, I met a cute girl at MLG, without her boyfriend there, then we had some drinks and had fun, later I learned she had a boyfriend, and later I learned they broke up according to her, and confirmed in the post.
I actually met her boyfriend after learning she had a boyfriend, he was quite a nice guy I thought. Out of respect to him, I avoided commenting on any of the threads, did she cheat on him? ya maybe... did she have her own reasons? maybe, but she's also a human being with the super-power of free will. Does this justify cheating? probably not. Should her bf break up with her if she cheated on him? I personally would.
I understand you're buff and super strong and all that, but relax buddy, your fist isn't gonna come on the other side of the screen to teach Ret and I ethics or teach the girl's bf how you do it in argentina, see people with half a brain usually prefer to settle things by talking. Also, I was not given any warning unfortunately, so your law of brute strenght doesn't apply there either.
You see when you have a girlfriend, what your brain should be thinking about is "I trust her enough that she won't cheat on me" your brain should not be thinking "IF I SEE MALE KISS HER, MAYBE ME PUNCH HIM SO SHE STAY WITH ME! ARGHH!" your fist doesn't get you respect, anywhere in the world, unless you make money off of punching people, that might get you respect from people who like watching the sport and admire your talents.
because you see from the guy's perspective that you'd walk up to in a bar and punch cause you're mad cool, he probably just met a cute girl and was having fun, and if you punch him like you do where you come from, maybe he'll get a gun and go shoot you and then all that respect... gone...
edit: this thread was actually supposed to be about my dq vs julyzerg, lol.
CatZ my man, if you had half a brain maybe you would comprehend what I am saying. What I said was that the ex boyfriend dude should just told her not to act in that way, and told you to back the fuck off his girlfriend. Then if you did not back off, THEN AND ONLY THEN should he have proceeded to fuck you up. So I condone violence if talking does not solve the problem.
Moreover, given that this did not happen (he did not say anything to you or the girl at that time) then, in my opinion, you are absolutely blameless and I would have done the exact same thing you did (and of course Ret is blameless through the same logic).
So if your girlfriend can't keep her panties on, you will beat up all the guys she's trying to jump? Very smart, why solve the source of the issue when you can try to <endlessly> deal with the outcomes. Well, not endlessly, if that's your attitude, you will eventually mess with the wrong person, who will put you in the hospital, or in the ground.
I am not addressing how to solve the situation in the long term. Of course he should dump the girl, moreso, he should never have taken her for his girlfriend in the first place. But if this is the first instance of this behavior, and a random dude keeps going after your warning then you are a pushover if you allow other people to disrespect you in your face. OFC you should inmediately break up with her after, hell, I would consider getting into a fight (regardless of outcome) in this context to be a de facto breakup.
Some facts. Only criminal here is teh girl. No offense, but Ret is kind of pathetic if he really paid $1600,.. I mean, he barely met her and investing 1,6k like Josh said. The girls boyfriend - nice that you shared story with us, but move on from that peace of crap, simple thing.
This is good thing by the way, because many people that think with right head will avoid her in future(if they read this topic or his blog lol).
I'm glad this was finally revealed! Sounds to me like MLG panicked when they couldn't start the day on time so they booted Catz. Lets hope during the next MLG they are treating all players equally!
Interesting read, really disappointed that there was no Catz v July match. That would have been one hell of a match. Could really care less if starcraft players want to use their fame to get a few fan girls, but I really do wish the players would sort out their priorities. I'm a little bit shocked if Ret really did buy that girl a $1,600 plane ticket...
I have lost a little bit of respect for both Catz and Ret, but nothing that can't be gained back.
well, Really seems that there was a double standard going around at MLG where some players could be late and others couldn't ? Or maybe it has something to do with it being the second day, and people should have been more prepared? Honestly I am a huge Catz fan and its disappointing to see him robbed like this. But, anyway he'll do well at next MLG !
EPT
) I'm sure if his game was held later on in the day they probably wouldn't of DQ'd him. I'd say it was bad luck for him and hopefully he brought this to the attention of the MLG staff so they could fix this problem for the next MLG to make it even better. 
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