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On June 08 2011 01:45 Vinnesta wrote:Show nested quote +On June 08 2011 01:28 DNB wrote:On June 08 2011 01:21 IamBach wrote:
Korean is crazy difficult. If you can read in one you can basically read in the other(with some work of course). I would go with Korean because Mandarin is actually not that difficult of a language and if you think you can pick up Korean, Mandarin will come pretty quickly too. Like you said, you know the basics of Korean, but I think you'll be surprised how challenging it is for an English speaker. Also, I think because of the challenge that Korean poses, you'll actually be more likely to find work as a Korean speaker, because Mandarin speakers are more common. What do you mean? I think Mandarin and Korean are both equally difficult but in different aspects. Korean is crazy hard because of the grammar and all forms of politeness, but is easy in the alphabet. Mandarin on the other hand has a relatively simple grammar, but the writing system and pronouncing make it also super difficult. It's actually funny when you said that Korean is hard for English-speakers, but I find pronouncing it very easy and slightly similar to Finnish, some Koreans have even said my accent sounds like a native. But again, the grammar is super complicated, if that is what you mean. I would think that Mandarin pronunciation is actually easier, since the sounds are very standard, whereas Korean syllables require a lot of practice to be articulated correctly. But like you said, reading and writing Mandarin is going to be a lot tougher than Korean. With thousands of characters in use, Mandarin characters take years to remember (and lots of patience with a dictionary...) Learning a language is a challenging process which requires huge commitment. Thus you should choose whichever culture you prefer, as constant exposure to the language is the only way you'll ever master the language.
Do they really take YEARS to remember? I picked up Remembering the Kanji 2 months ago, I already know 600 kanjis with 90% accuracy and I've barely been studying the past 3 weeks because of last months in highschool. (Priorities!) I reckon I will be done with the 2000 kanjis in a few months. And then go over to the compounds and such which take less time. (From what I've heard.)
Now I know there is more characters in chinese, but is it really that different that it would take years? I know some people who mastered the art of writing in Japanese. (Most likely easier then Chinese) in less then a year. Their biggest problem was actually knowing how to pronounce the words. They did spend many months in Japan though which certainly boosted their learning.
I'm also extremely interested in Asian languages. Which is why I'm studying Japanese. I'll also be leaving for Japan early next year, just to spend some time there and hopefully learn the language as much as possible. If my learning goes well, I'll most likely pick up Mandarin aswell. I find learning Chinese characters (Kanji or Hanzi) being extremely fun tbh. So I have that thing going for me. (It seems that the general idea that people have is that WRITING both Japanese and Chinese is the hardest part of these two languages mainly due to the massive amount of characters they use?) In that case, I have a good thing going for me if it's the hardest obstacle. Though I don't expect fluency anytime soon nor to be easy.
I'm myself thinking about volunteering as a English teacher in China after Japan trip. Sadly I don't think thats possible in Korea. Nor in Japan. >=[
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CA10830 Posts
^ how many strokes are the characters you're learning? they get much harder later on...
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On June 08 2011 03:10 NonFactor wrote:Show nested quote +On June 08 2011 01:45 Vinnesta wrote:On June 08 2011 01:28 DNB wrote:On June 08 2011 01:21 IamBach wrote:
Korean is crazy difficult. If you can read in one you can basically read in the other(with some work of course). I would go with Korean because Mandarin is actually not that difficult of a language and if you think you can pick up Korean, Mandarin will come pretty quickly too. Like you said, you know the basics of Korean, but I think you'll be surprised how challenging it is for an English speaker. Also, I think because of the challenge that Korean poses, you'll actually be more likely to find work as a Korean speaker, because Mandarin speakers are more common. What do you mean? I think Mandarin and Korean are both equally difficult but in different aspects. Korean is crazy hard because of the grammar and all forms of politeness, but is easy in the alphabet. Mandarin on the other hand has a relatively simple grammar, but the writing system and pronouncing make it also super difficult. It's actually funny when you said that Korean is hard for English-speakers, but I find pronouncing it very easy and slightly similar to Finnish, some Koreans have even said my accent sounds like a native. But again, the grammar is super complicated, if that is what you mean. I would think that Mandarin pronunciation is actually easier, since the sounds are very standard, whereas Korean syllables require a lot of practice to be articulated correctly. But like you said, reading and writing Mandarin is going to be a lot tougher than Korean. With thousands of characters in use, Mandarin characters take years to remember (and lots of patience with a dictionary...) Learning a language is a challenging process which requires huge commitment. Thus you should choose whichever culture you prefer, as constant exposure to the language is the only way you'll ever master the language. Do they really take YEARS to remember? I picked up Remembering the Kanji 2 months ago, I already know 600 kanjis with 90% accuracy and I've barely been studying the past 3 weeks because of last months in highschool. (Priorities!) I reckon I will be done with the 2000 kanjis in a few months. And then go over to the compounds and such which take less time. (From what I've heard.) Now I know there is more characters in chinese, but is it really that different that it would take years? I know some people who mastered the art of writing in Japanese. (Most likely easier then Chinese) in less then a year. Their biggest problem was actually knowing how to pronounce the words. They did spend many months in Japan though which certainly boosted their learning.
Yes, just remembering the all characters can take years, unless one is living in a Chinese speaking country and learning the language full-time. To be considered fully literate in Mandarin, one is required to know about 3000 to 4000 characters. Because of the unique pronunciation and meaning of each character, it is difficult to passively learn the language without constant reference to a guide or dictionary.
And really,
+ Show Spoiler +你真的懂得怎麼讀六百個漢字嗎？在不到兩個月,你已經能記得這麼多字... 我很難相信
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On June 08 2011 03:47 LosingID8 wrote:
^ how many strokes are the characters you're learning? they get much harder later on...
the point of RTK is to learn radicals so that it doesn't look so difficult, you can identify parts of kanji and see what they're made of.
there's also differences in reading vs. writing. if i see a character, i can re-write it properly. but writing it from memory is completely different. and even reading it is a problem. having done RTK myself, i can say that it really doesn't teach you as much as you think... all it gives you is the ability to distinguish between kanji and how to break it down. it doesn't teach you how to write from memory or read at all.
also in japanese, "difficult" kanji is rare kanji, not necessarily high stroke order kanji. 丹 is considered difficult whereas 曜 is like kindergarten level and 龍 is still fairly easy.
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On June 08 2011 03:47 LosingID8 wrote:
^ how many strokes are the characters you're learning? they get much harder later on...
Like someone said, you focus on the radicals first. Basically some Kanji that I've learned are incredibly simple yet some are up to like 20 strokes already. RTK goes through the characters radical to radical meaning it isn't exactly ''easier to harder'', but rather it goes through them per radicals. Lesson 1 you might learn Kanji with radical nr 1. And lesson 2 you might learn Kanji with radical nr 2. In lesson 3 you might learn Kanji that contain both of the radicals from 1 and 2, and so on.
On top of that, he uses your imagination as a tool to remember these Kanjis and radicals, you are prompted to create your own stories for every character. And the order of how the kanji are represented are usually made so that you have a easier time coming up with stories.
Imo makes it very easy to learn, and so far has worked like a charm. Since you constantly use the radicals you JUST learned. And slowly but surely move to new radicals while still using the old ones.
I'm steamrolling the characters by like 25-30 a day while I sit in the bus, then I use the internet to test myself. My overall accruacy is like 91%. I do it everyday. 10 days = 250 characters. Sounds hardcore but I spend around 45-60 minutes a day for this. Most of it while I sit in the bus. The most important part is to test yourself. And I don't expect myself to get 90% correct from the first time I test myself in a new batch of characters. (Usually 50 characters or so.) But second or third time I always get up to 90%.
He recently released Remembering the Hanzi aswell, I will most likely use it aswell if I seriously decide to chase Mandarin.
I also realize that not everyone can learn 25 characters a day, not because it's hard, but because it might get monotone and boring. But to me honestly, it's a lot of fun. Which is probably why I can push myself.
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I recommend you learn Korean because it is just as useful as learning Mandarin. It is true that more people in the world know Mandarin. However, if you are looking for a job, Chinese jobs will not pay as well as Korean ones.
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On June 08 2011 06:49 Kutsuki wrote:
I recommend you learn Korean because it is just as useful as learning Mandarin. It is true that more people in the world know Mandarin. However, if you are looking for a job, Chinese jobs will not pay as well as Korean ones.
Are we talking Chinese jobs in China? You realize the Chinese economy is a lot stronger than Korea's right now.
Back to OP. If you planning for usage, I would probably learn Chinese, you get more "mileage" out of it. But between the two, I like korean a lot more. Just so I can follow starcraft more!
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Having graduated from DLI in Mandarin. It was widely known at DLI that Korean was the toughest language there.
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Mandarin is very very hard to master, so if you already have the basics of Korean, id go for Korean. You could do translation writeups from Korean gaming sites for TL, which are always a huge hit. Thats purely from a selfish standpoint though. 
I understand what you mean about Asian languages being interesting, I'm a third year Japanese student and really like the culture and language. Kanji can go die in a ditch though.
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On June 08 2011 09:57 Sorook wrote:
Having graduated from DLI in Mandarin. It was widely known at DLI that Korean was the toughest language there.
i dunno about that, i'm pretty sure it's a toss up between mandarin and korean.
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As you said OP, learning Mandarin will be much more benificial for you in later life. Mandarin is not only used in mainland China but also Taiwan, Singapore and a very large number of Chinese community outside China. Before Cantonese was the dominance dialect for Chinese community outside China but Mandarin is gaining ground as we speak.
I learnt Mandarin 5 years ago, and now I can speak as good as a native, my writing, reading skill is somewhat below that level. So If you work hard enough, learning Chinese is very doable, esp if you can come to China to learnt it. And the night life, girls etc in any big China city is very good as well.
One problem is you are a westerner which will make your learning curve much more harder than me. As an Asian with a very similar culture with Chinese and Korean culture, I can learnt the language faster in sense of understanding the whole language itself.
Vietnam also use alphabet system so Chinese characters are as difficult for as everyone else, hard work is required. So don't be discourage because of Chinese characters. Even well educated Chinese can't write some very common characters from time to time.
One more thing, if you pick up Chinese, learnt it at least to intermidiate level, you can learn Korean later on, since out of 3 East Asia languages(Chinese, Japanese, Korean) if you master one of them, it makes learning the 2 others much more easier.
So, in conclusion, I think you should pick up Chinese, give it a few years, then you can, if you want to, pick up Korean. :D
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Follow your heart and go with Korean. It will be more enjoyable. Don't put yourself through torture learning chinese. You will have no drive.
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EPT
