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On February 24 2011 08:41 artoo[ wrote:Show nested quote +On February 24 2011 08:38 ReachTheSky wrote:
They really need to stop calling this thing a league. Its more like an invitational minus one spot(what a fucking joke). sigh. Whats funny is that this league was never about making esports big. It was about how one person saw how they could make a shitload of money. Yet its for esports!!! rofl what a joke. ALL the players and this community make up esports. Having a purely invite tourny does not benefit esports as a whole. GSL/KPGA/OSL/MSL all had prelims. Prelims that allowed EVERYONE to try their heart out. This is nothing but selection just so you folks can try and make dough. ;/
I'm disappointed in the direction this so called 'esports' is heading. Hopefully you get your act together. YUP, join me in boycotting giving any money to these guys. We have plenty of good quality content in GSL and MLG on a regular basis, not to mention the Dreamhacks and others.... I'm really disappointed that idra and incontrol are so behind this...
I think it's really unfortunate that because of a rule you don't agree with you're so willing to write off what is a big step towards making esports and SC2 so much bigger in the west.
Yes this may not be an ideal situation and perhaps some things need to change, but you know what? Rules aren't set in stone. After these initial seasons, or even after the first, they may further examine how things went and make changes.
It's so early right now and throwing this much negativity is really unfair. I'm not saying we should all just smile and agree with absolutely everything but to say all they're doing this for is to make money and that we need to boycott this over something that doesn't effect either of you (forgive me if I'm wrong but you're not the sixth man on a team are you?) is shortsighted and immature.
Try using a little positivity and giving some constructive criticism instead of just slinging mud. Maybe people will listen to what you say. Cause reading this, you sound like children.
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On February 24 2011 09:40 artoo[ wrote:Show nested quote +On February 24 2011 09:24 RogueStatus wrote:
This whole NASL thing is getting old already! Some egos that have proved to be large to begin with, are now only growing. The power tripping that's going on seems to beexcessive for an event that is yet to be established or developed. It's a shame that it could be a real positive thing for the community and it's becoming a political, poplularity driven snob fest. Yea, the kind of thing that could make idra and team EG some money at the expense of a possibly great league. Now it's clear why he left Korea to cash in on this.
Except that EG (The organization) is not involved with this whatso ever.
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team liquid B. since "team" has not been defined, this should fit all nasl criteria.
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looks this rule is going to end up being the "extended series" of NASL.
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Tyler for world domination and another TSL win!
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On February 24 2011 10:24 ThatETmonkey wrote:
What is Nasl definition of a team then?
This is something I have been wondering myself. On the FAQ of the NASL site, they have the questions that you are supposed to answer in a video that you send in. They don't have a specific questions asking if the player is on a team. The first questions is asking about the players history in SC2 so i guess thats where people would say what team they are on.
But there is no definition described for what the team that you have to be on is. Does the team have to meet certain requirements? Can I just make a team with my friends and if the team requires a sponsor can I just get anyone to sponsor the team?
There was also something else I read in another thread. The top 4 of the open tournament I believe get seeded into the next season of the league. What if those people are not on a team, do they no get to enter anymore or by getting top 4 are these players placed on a team? Perhaps they have teams that have agreed to recruit the top 4 players so that they are able to play in the next season.
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I don't think players should be excluded because they aren't on a known team. When we ran UG tournaments we would have people on high profile teams that didn't show up without any notification at all or at the very last minute, all the time. Being on Team doesn't make individuals more responsible. While possible, it seems highly unlikely that a player given a chance to win thousands of dollars is going to show up late for his match or not all all. If it's about the travel then make the prize pool $390,000 and cover the travel.
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I compeletly agree with you tyler, i just think there are so many funny rules and the format is even questionable. i would way prefer to have qualifiers for this tournament to get the best of the best. But if they insist on doing it this way there should be no limit on teams you made numerous excellent points in the SOTG last night. Its really discouraging to think that this tournament should it grow to be a big deal in esports in the west could destroy the way teams are run.
One more thing id like to point out it seems like Fnatic is also running some things behind the scenes for the NASL ( i have no idea how it works) but it seems like EG and Fnatic stand to benifit the most from the NASL and although EG has a stellar lineup and i could not argue that 5 of their players dont deserve to be in the NASL i could defenetly not say the same for Fnatic, if they get 5 seats for their team at the cost of say the 6th member of TL not getting one i would be extremely dissapointed i can name maybe 2 players on their lineup that deserve(?) to be in the NASL any more would be a slap in the face and defenetly shown as favoritism.
I think having a similair format to the GSL in terms of qualifiers for the first 3 seasons and then maybe a and b groups would be much more appealing it has problems of its own but at least you know that you really would be getting some of the best players. There isnt many people in code S in season 5 of the gsl that i would say dont deserve to be there.
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Thank you Tyler for calling out the serious flaws in this setup. People that are quick to defend NASL don't even think about how poorly structured and put together it really is.
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I truly agree with your point Tyler. There are so many things wrong in the NASL's rules that it really keeps the unknowns from proving themselves. i.e. more like a battle of the famous.
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On February 24 2011 10:37 audiosnag wrote:Show nested quote +On February 24 2011 08:41 artoo[ wrote:On February 24 2011 08:38 ReachTheSky wrote:
They really need to stop calling this thing a league. Its more like an invitational minus one spot(what a fucking joke). sigh. Whats funny is that this league was never about making esports big. It was about how one person saw how they could make a shitload of money. Yet its for esports!!! rofl what a joke. ALL the players and this community make up esports. Having a purely invite tourny does not benefit esports as a whole. GSL/KPGA/OSL/MSL all had prelims. Prelims that allowed EVERYONE to try their heart out. This is nothing but selection just so you folks can try and make dough. ;/
I'm disappointed in the direction this so called 'esports' is heading. Hopefully you get your act together. YUP, join me in boycotting giving any money to these guys. We have plenty of good quality content in GSL and MLG on a regular basis, not to mention the Dreamhacks and others.... I'm really disappointed that idra and incontrol are so behind this... I think it's really unfortunate that because of a rule you don't agree with you're so willing to write off what is a big step towards making esports and SC2 so much bigger in the west. Yes this may not be an ideal situation and perhaps some things need to change, but you know what? Rules aren't set in stone. After these initial seasons, or even after the first, they may further examine how things went and make changes. It's so early right now and throwing this much negativity is really unfair. I'm not saying we should all just smile and agree with absolutely everything but to say all they're doing this for is to make money and that we need to boycott this over something that doesn't effect either of you (forgive me if I'm wrong but you're not the sixth man on a team are you?) is shortsighted and immature. Try using a little positivity and giving some constructive criticism instead of just slinging mud. Maybe people will listen to what you say. Cause reading this, you sound like children.
This affects everybody. This isn't some tiny rule at the back of the rulebook. This is a big thing. I will also boycott and never watch a game of the NASL if this rule stays in because I too think its a bit worthless(as someone earlier to warned about) as who knows who is going ones to pick who gets into this league in the first place. This rule makes me really suspicious about the whole thing.
Tyler, I agree with what you say. I was listening to SOTG and the argument about NBA had little to no merit in regards to this this, tennis would have been better to use be that goes into your favor so it probably wouldn't have been used. I'm glad that at least one top player has balls to come out and say it.
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I find the biggest reason why the 5 player limit is not good is because hurts the growth of teams. Two examples:
1) Team A has 6 or 7 players and is looking for more good players to improve their roster, so they talk to player X and after seeing him play they invite him to join. X likes the team but declines because it will hurt his chances of joining the NASL since they have more than 5 players. Joining a team should _never_ be detrimental to a player.
2) Team B has 10 players all of whom are good friends and enjoy practicing with each other. However, each one wants to compete in NASL as well. B must now choose 5 players they can send, and the other 5, although they want to stay with the team, decide to leave in order to have a chance at the NASL. The limitation has now effectively broken up a perfectly good team.
I never thought I would say this, but I would rather have extended series than this.
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On February 24 2011 11:20 RndmGdNck wrote:Show nested quote +On February 24 2011 10:37 audiosnag wrote:On February 24 2011 08:41 artoo[ wrote:On February 24 2011 08:38 ReachTheSky wrote:
They really need to stop calling this thing a league. Its more like an invitational minus one spot(what a fucking joke). sigh. Whats funny is that this league was never about making esports big. It was about how one person saw how they could make a shitload of money. Yet its for esports!!! rofl what a joke. ALL the players and this community make up esports. Having a purely invite tourny does not benefit esports as a whole. GSL/KPGA/OSL/MSL all had prelims. Prelims that allowed EVERYONE to try their heart out. This is nothing but selection just so you folks can try and make dough. ;/
I'm disappointed in the direction this so called 'esports' is heading. Hopefully you get your act together. YUP, join me in boycotting giving any money to these guys. We have plenty of good quality content in GSL and MLG on a regular basis, not to mention the Dreamhacks and others.... I'm really disappointed that idra and incontrol are so behind this... I think it's really unfortunate that because of a rule you don't agree with you're so willing to write off what is a big step towards making esports and SC2 so much bigger in the west. Yes this may not be an ideal situation and perhaps some things need to change, but you know what? Rules aren't set in stone. After these initial seasons, or even after the first, they may further examine how things went and make changes. It's so early right now and throwing this much negativity is really unfair. I'm not saying we should all just smile and agree with absolutely everything but to say all they're doing this for is to make money and that we need to boycott this over something that doesn't effect either of you (forgive me if I'm wrong but you're not the sixth man on a team are you?) is shortsighted and immature. Try using a little positivity and giving some constructive criticism instead of just slinging mud. Maybe people will listen to what you say. Cause reading this, you sound like children. This affects everybody. This isn't some tiny rule at the back of the rulebook. This is a big thing. I will also boycott and never watch a game of the NASL if this rule stays in because I too think its a bit worthless(as someone earlier to warned about) as who knows who is going ones to pick who gets into this league in the first place. This rule makes me really suspicious about the whole thing. Tyler, I agree with what you say. I was listening to SOTG and the argument about NBA had little to no merit in regards to this this, tennis would have been better to use be that goes into your favor so it probably wouldn't have been used. I'm glad that at least one top player has balls to come out and say it.
Wanna explain to me how it affects you? I'm all ears.
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On February 24 2011 11:20 phantaxx wrote:
I find the biggest reason why the 5 player limit is not good is because hurts the growth of teams. Two examples:
1) Team A has 6 or 7 players and is looking for more good players to improve their roster, so they talk to player X and after seeing him play they invite him to join. X likes the team but declines because it will hurt his chances of joining the NASL since they have more than 5 players. Joining a team should _never_ be detrimental to a player.
2) Team B has 10 players all of whom are good friends and enjoy practicing with each other. However, each one wants to compete in NASL as well. B must now choose 5 players they can send, and the other 5, although they want to stay with the team, decide to leave in order to have a chance at the NASL. The limitation has now effectively broken up a perfectly good team.
I never thought I would say this, but I would rather have extended series than this.
Good summation. It'd be nice to see an official response to this.
Although really the only response would be to scrap the limit.
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has anyone provided a concrete example of how two teammates could collude given that they have to play their match early in the league? for collusion to be an issue a player would have to lose intentionally. i don't see how losing to someone that is not your teammate could help your teammate advance.
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Good post. I think the whole belonging to a team requirement is pretty silly anyway. On occasion a good player might be without a team temporarily, that shouldn't matter in sign-ups for an individual league.
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What's to stop Tyler, TLO, and Haypro from leaving Team Liquid, forming "Team TTH" (Also sponsored by TLAF, at no cost to them!), playing in the NASL alongside HuK, Ret and Jinro, and rejoining Team Liquid later?
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The impression I got from Xeris was that more than 5 players from a team can compete if the additional spots are earned through the open tournament.
I thought this 5 player rule was just an initial guideline for the first season, to insure there was a diverse range of players and fair representation.
It's also a way of sidestepping the logistics of a lengthy, expensive, complex qualification process, while still assuring (roughly) the best players in North America to participate.
After the first three open tournaments, the cream of the crop should rise and hopefully you can say the best 50 players are participating.
It's far from a perfect system, but look at the GSL. Outside the top 24 players, I'd say the remaining 40 players are all jockeying for position with some blatant outliers that got there by luck or chance. This is after investing an insane amount of money and time on three tournies and countless qualifiers.
From purely a management stand-point, I can understand why they went in this direction to launch the league. Hopefully the 5 player per team cap is not a hard and fast rule, and they will adapt if it is obviously hurting the competitiveness of the league.
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Their whole 'vote for your favorite players to increase their chances of being chosen for the league' is gay... I can see from a promotional stand point, where they want to get the crowd picks to increase popularity to start... but if this is how they are going to choose who can play and who cant then they are only screwing themselves over.
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On February 24 2011 11:50 DanceSC wrote:
Their whole 'vote for your favorite players to increase their chances of being chosen for the league' is gay... I can see from a promotional stand point, where they want to get the crowd picks to increase popularity to start... but if this is how they are going to choose who can play and who cant then they are only screwing themselves over.
That isn't how they are going to choose the players, though. It just helps them pick names to look into.
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EPT
