EPTHumbleness - Page 2
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BuGzlToOnl
United States5918 Posts
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MrBitter
United States2940 Posts
I think they're freaking awesome. I'm a 2100 Diamond player. I'm 25 years old, I make a comfortable living, and I fucking love SC2. I would love to be able to go out and be competitive in this game, but I don't really have a network of friends/practice partners who play anywhere near my level. I'm not good enough to be a sponsored player, and I don't have connections with pros. What better way to reach a higher level than by paying someone who has been there? Someone who is around it every day... Someone who can watch me play, tell me what I'm doing wrong, and give me legit guidance towards getting better? People pay for chess lessons. People pay for poker lessons. People pay to learn to do all sorts of things... I don't understand why its frowned upon to seek guidance for becoming better at something you enjoy... Edit: And to those of you saying that the lessons taught by these "alleged coaches" are a scam, I invite you to actually look and see what we're paying for: http://www.livestream.com/mrbitter/video?clipId=pla_cbc6e062-d0a2-40a4-a012-f53cf2fe1dcd&utm_source=lslibrary&utm_medium=ui-thumb Coaching starts at 25:08. I played sports through school. I've trained in martial arts for years. The quality of instruction I get from iNcontroL is easily on par with some of the best coaches I've come to know in my lifetime. | ||
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ZoW
United States3983 Posts
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LumberJack
United States3355 Posts
On November 08 2010 11:38 palanq wrote: maybe these players think they are good. maybe they are, maybe they're not. but if so, they're not scamming anyone - at worst, they're deluding themselves (and their sponsors/students). except that with that delusion, comes money. They are convincing sponsors to PAY them with a LIE. I'm pretty sure webster would agree that that's a scam | ||
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LumberJack
United States3355 Posts
On November 08 2010 11:47 MrBitter wrote: I pay for lessons from iNcontroL. I think they're freaking awesome. I'm a 2100 Diamond player. I'm 25 years old, I make a comfortable living, and I fucking love SC2. I would love to be able to go out and be competitive in this game, but I don't really have a network of friends/practice partners who play anywhere near my level. I'm not good enough to be a sponsored player, and I don't have connections with pros. What better way to reach a higher level than by paying someone who has been there? Someone who is around it every day... Someone who can watch me play, tell me what I'm doing wrong, and give me legit guidance towards getting better? People pay for chess lessons. People pay for poker lessons. People pay to learn to do all sorts of things... I don't understand why its frowned upon to seek guidance for becoming better at something you enjoy... Edit: And to those of you saying that the lessons taught by these "alleged coaches" are a scam, I invite you to actually look and see what we're paying for: http://www.livestream.com/mrbitter/video?clipId=pla_cbc6e062-d0a2-40a4-a012-f53cf2fe1dcd&utm_source=lslibrary&utm_medium=ui-thumb Coaching starts at 25:08. I played sports through school. I've trained in martial arts for years. The quality of instruction I get from iNcontroL is easily on par with some of the best coaches I've come to know in my lifetime. I didnt want this to turn into a lesson debate. If you want to get a lesson from someone just b/c he was in reality show, sure, go for it. If that makes you feel good inside to have someone else tell you not to supply block yourself. If you feel like thats a positive thing in your life, then pay for it. I think paying for a lapdance would probably do you better good, but thats just my opinion The point that I'm making is that there are literally DOZENS of guys who are just random guys who know 1 or 2 builds and can spend their money, who are charging people for lessons, and calling themselves pro. There are people going to events, scamming their sponsors by convincing them that they have what it takes to win and get their product out there so people will want to be them, and use their product. I'm not saying ALL players are like that, not at all. There are some who are trying to milk the scene for all its worth, and its disgusting to me. | ||
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whatever
Mexico693 Posts
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Gatsbi
United States1134 Posts
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A3iL3r0n
United States2196 Posts
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LumberJack
United States3355 Posts
'brand new enterprise' ![[image loading]](http://asset.soup.io/asset/1171/4257_912c.jpeg) yea, its kind of like that. | ||
Rekrul
Korea (South)17174 Posts
As time goes on they will fade into nothingness. | ||
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Rekrul
Korea (South)17174 Posts
On November 07 2010 21:51 BottleAbuser wrote: Interviews are marketing. If you say "I don't know, we probably won't win" your sponsors will not be happy. "We have a very good chance of winning" (and putting in a good performance) is the way to keep your sponsorship. This too. They have to do it. It's all in good fun anyways, if everyone was down to earth like you seem to want then e-sports would be pretty damn boring. Don't be jealous of the pro-gamers Lumberjack! | ||
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Entropic
Canada2837 Posts
On November 08 2010 17:14 Rekrul wrote: This too. They have to do it. It's all in good fun anyways, if everyone was down to earth like you seem to want then e-sports would be pretty damn boring. Oh god this... I don't want anymore Korean style interviews (ie. copy+paste Thanks my team, my opponent was tough, I was just lucky, I'd like to thank my mother, my father, etc etc) | ||
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Loanshark
China3094 Posts
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LumberJack
United States3355 Posts
On November 08 2010 17:14 Rekrul wrote: This too. They have to do it. It's all in good fun anyways, if everyone was down to earth like you seem to want then e-sports would be pretty damn boring. ROLF SUP? haha long time mr dan. TBH, i do agree with this statement. Isn't there a balance though? I'd like to think that you can still be crazy and fun and not be super arrogant and cocky. I think its one thing to be arrogant and cocky (idra) and actually perform, its another to be that way, and play god awful and just make up excuses over and over for every tournament failure you've had so far. I watched some of the Lo3 post MLG and i thought it was a great cast, 3hrs of drunken party with interviews inbetween. To me, thats different than the korean scene, and I'm totally ok with that. It just really bothers me to see randoms charging people, and really bad amature players calling themselves pro by convincing someone to pay them to lose. | ||
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Disregard
China10252 Posts
On November 08 2010 17:14 Rekrul wrote: This too. They have to do it. It's all in good fun anyways, if everyone was down to earth like you seem to want then e-sports would be pretty damn boring. Don't be jealous of the pro-gamers Lumberjack! Thats why we have Grack! | ||
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Rekrul
Korea (South)17174 Posts
On November 08 2010 18:30 LumberJack wrote: ROLF SUP? haha long time mr dan. TBH, i do agree with this statement. Isn't there a balance though? I'd like to think that you can still be crazy and fun and not be super arrogant and cocky. I think its one thing to be arrogant and cocky (idra) and actually perform, its another to be that way, and play god awful and just make up excuses over and over for every tournament failure you've had so far. I watched some of the Lo3 post MLG and i thought it was a great cast, 3hrs of drunken party with interviews inbetween. To me, thats different than the korean scene, and I'm totally ok with that. It just really bothers me to see randoms charging people, and really bad amature players calling themselves pro by convincing someone to pay them to lose. yeah, don't worry, the foreigners suck series might have to be revived sc2 edition | ||
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shannn
Netherlands2891 Posts
With the release of sc2 there is a booming increase of new players joining the esports scene or coming from other scenes to jump along in the bandwagon that is starcraft. Obviously the majority are really bad and some of them want to be very competetive and are willing to pay players who are better than themselves so they can improve. This is the same from every other sport. When you hire a personal trainer ofcourse you're going to expect at least that they can teach you something which will make you improve while these trainers probably aren't the best in their fields or near that. You might think people like Gretorp/incontrol is bad (whether this is true or not is subjective and does not matter in this argument) but a new player will think otherwise and thus is willing to pay for these lessons. In that sense it may be a scam in your eyes as the players you question are not that great but this is all a matter of opinion and the players who take these lessons are of the opinion that these players are in fact great. Atleast great enough to pay for lessons. It's the same as in the strategy forums. People make themselves out to be the best and theorycraft their answers that they are right and thus the rest is wrong. This is all subjective in the eyes of the paying customer. Let it be. These people are smart for earning money by it as they seem to have thought about this. | ||
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DND_Enkil
Sweden598 Posts
Not all Football coaches has been pros in thier past, and few of them top pros. If people are lying in the ads saying the are much better than they really are at playing that is one thing, but if they are honest in the adds they should really be judged on one thing and one thing only, the quality of the lessons they provide. Looking around in the site where they sell lessons I dont see any lies at all, they list thier achivements and a small bio (obviously in as positive light as they can, they are trying to sell themself after all). Only checked that website tho, i'm sure there are several and in some cases the quality of the teachers and lessons might be so low to justify the term scamming. But if so, cant you try to point out thoose instead of pointing a finger at all of them? My economy is a bit stretched atm. but i could totally see myself paying for a lesson sometime in the future, i have taken lessons in golf, tennis and PT-trainers in the past and i spent way less time in thoose sports then I playing/watching SC2. Not so much because i want to be "competetive" but because i enjoy improving and just think it would be fun. I see this as a win-win situation, I get a fun lesson and they get some cash. And if there is the possibility of sponsors then players are gonna hype themself in order to land a sponsor contract. If the sponsors are clueless and takes the players word for granted, well... thats pretty stupid aint it? Same with paying for lessons, it aint that hard to do a simple background check on someone, google the name. The one thing where i really do agree with you is about excuses when losing, i half expect players to be extremely cocky before a tournament (like IncontroL). Building up the own ego can help a lot, and if nothing else it is fun to watch and makes it interesting. But i hate when players lack humility and respect for the opponent after a loss. Pulling excuses out of thier ass and doing everything but admit that the other player played better. Dont have to say that the opponent is better, but admit that right there and then he played better. (no example on this atm) Anyways, counter-rant over... | ||
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Mothra
United States1448 Posts
On November 09 2010 00:53 DND_Enkil wrote: There are plenty of teachers in all fields that has a solid understanding about what they teach and great skills when it comes to analyze and teach without being top-of-the pros. I agree with this, and also about the players being obligated to hype themselves and their team. Haven't been following SC2 too closely but some of the commentators are really irritating (someone made a blog about that before). As people said, the skill level will go up over time and the bad players weeded out. | ||
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Garrl
Scotland1974 Posts
On November 08 2010 11:42 BuGzlToOnl wrote: Amen. Everyone is pretty much trying to cash in on this SCII thing in hopes that it will become what BW once was. But IMHO they are doing nothing but slowly killing it before it actually becomes worth anything. ^ The fact that many people decided they were going to be "THE BEST SC2 PROGAMER EVER" before the beta even came out (looking at you, BW foriegners like IdrA) shows this; they didn't even know if the game was going to be any good before they decided to switch. The guy who posted a blog saying he wanted to become a progamer when he said he didn't even know the hotkeys epitomises this. imo, the SC2 scene only exists because Blizzard are pumping a ton of money into it in hopes of cashing in later; the BW scene started up without large investors for a reason: it was actually good, instead of just being marketed as "AN ESPORTS GAME". (ahem C&C Generals/ZH, marketed as the next big esports game, died out a few months after). | ||
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