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We have a saying in my career field, you dont know what you dont know till you dont know it. It sounds cliche, sure, but its said and heard and known for a reason.
I've been in the SC community for over a decade now, meeting the plot brothers at WCG Los Angeles in 2001. Getting cannon rushed by Liquid`Tyler at a lan in 2000 in tyler, tx. Him and Whear showed us how nub we were.
I find myself watching these interviews of players at mlg and shaking my head with shame. They are making themselves look so ridiculous in my opinion. With their sponsor shirts on, their sponsor hoodies on, all this talk about how good they are, how the skill gap from them to the koreans in GSL is infinitesimal, how they hope to go to korea soon and 'compete'.
Then to play absolutely atrocious... Down right awful, going out first round, etc (consistently for some players). Dropping games vs random 1000 rated diamond players and barely winning the series only b/c the opposing player threw away an advantage.
There are half a dozen websites out there with these 'pro gamers' with their shitty bios trying to convince newbs to pay for coaching. Since when did we become so commercial?
You have all these kids on their streams begging for donations and charging people just to talk to them. Its absolutely insane, and the worst part? They arent even good... Their terrible players who just have 1-2 builds and can actually macro to some extent. Who are they to charge people for lessons? 'make men, make production buildings, make peons, roll'
I think people are looking at the null of skill due to the VAST majority of the korean scene still playing SC:BW, so they think they can fill that void and compete. Thats like saying you're a pro gamer at WC2, who are you fighting against though? So you're beating up against random kids on the ladder with your shitty 2k rating and you.. charge people? B/c you can beat randoms? Gratz?
All these 'pro gamers' at MLG talking all that trash in the interviews is pretty amusing, if you actually want to get good you might want to change your attitude from gods gift to SC2 to humble student and actually put some time in to getting better. /end rant
 
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Its true... to be honest it has to be with the lack of an organized progaming scene here, while in Korea players/progamers tend to be wayyyy overly reserved. But what can one do when all those wannabes that are full of themselves with their massive egos?
Though I never cared or put any effort into following MLG, it just doesnt seem like a very natural progaming base? for me.
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Woah Lumberjack! I insta-opened this blog because it's been a long time since I've seen you posting here!! Welcome back!!!
I actually try to avoid this topic of paying for lessons because of how touchy it can get. You have one side that says that it doesn't matter what their relative skill is to other top players; as long as there are terribad newbs outs there, they stand to gain something by taking lessons from them. Then you have the other camp that feels it's a waste of money to pay to get better at video games, to which you could also make similar assertions for other activities.
I personally think it's a waste of money to pay to get better at video games, especially at the rates some of these people charge. When people are like "but you pay for dancing lessons!?" I just facepalm because something like dancing is much more useful than your skill at C&C: Space Edition, and it has been woven into human culture since...we became "human"? I think you could make a better case for paying for lessons for anything else in comparison to video games.
I also think lessons hinder the community. If it weren't for this whole money business, we'd have a lot more content in the community in terms of replays and streams etc. Instead, you hear them say "you get full access to my replays if you sign up". I dunno, I don't like it being around but I can understand why it is around, if that makes sense.
/2 cents
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Best lesson one can get: Read the blog about the guy who was able to play 26 hours in a row. That's true talent, you will become better if you play like you mean it. The talking about skillllllllz is completely useless in a lot of cases. It just creates an illusion into one's mind.
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Link to interviews. I only say ones from people like liquid`tyler and EG.idra who not only are really fucking good but also know how to play BW so this thread confuses me.
i'll try to find them myself tho
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Yep - the requisite skill for recognition in the SC2 scene is ridiculously low right now. I'm not going to name names, but there are people who have absolutely awful mechanics and wouldn't make C level in Iccup in BW who are big names in the community and have the gall to charge $30+ for lessons. But that's the nature of the current hype surrounding the scene - it's profitable to do that and they have the necessary attention and even their own fanbases.
Fortunately this will change over the years as the scene shrinks but also develops from its currently noob-friendly state. The game is so new right now that basically everyone sucks - for all the mockery that TL's elitism gets, I believe there is significant portion of people here that could take singular games off GSL players - but the learning curve will steepen as the game develops, and we'll know which players are actually worth watching.
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Which players are we talking about? I never saw any of that shit on the MLG stream. In fact the interviews I saw were of Idra and Nony, and they came off very humble.
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I didnt really want to name names, but in the name of logic and science i guess i should. Gretorp (dallas) and incontrol (dc).
edit: gretorp said that the skill gap between himself and koreans was minimal, and that he hoped to go to korea to compete. incontrol went on for 20min about how amazing he was, how amazing his team was, etc, just to cannon rush his teammate machine and still not go past the third round.
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On November 07 2010 21:41 LumberJack wrote:
I didnt really want to name names, but in the name of logic and science i guess i should. Gretorp (dallas) and incontrol (dc).
Gretorp only trains 3 hours a day and is really smart/strategically minded. He didn't say anything particularly cocky but he's the kinda social guy who probably is better in an environment full of people.
Incontrol has always been really outspoken.
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On November 07 2010 21:08 Kraznaya wrote:
Yep - the requisite skill for recognition in the SC2 scene is ridiculously low right now. I'm not going to name names, but there are people who have absolutely awful mechanics and wouldn't make C level in Iccup in BW who are big names in the community and have the gall to charge $30+ for lessons. But that's the nature of the current hype surrounding the scene - it's profitable to do that and they have the necessary attention and even their own fanbases.
Fortunately this will change over the years as the scene shrinks but also develops from its currently noob-friendly state. The game is so new right now that basically everyone sucks - for all the mockery that TL's elitism gets, I believe there is significant portion of people here that could take singular games off GSL players - but the learning curve will steepen as the game develops, and we'll know which players are actually worth watching.
very well put imo
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Interviews are marketing. If you say "I don't know, we probably won't win" your sponsors will not be happy. "We have a very good chance of winning" (and putting in a good performance) is the way to keep your sponsorship.
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On November 07 2010 21:51 BottleAbuser wrote:
Interviews are marketing. If you say "I don't know, we probably won't win" your sponsors will not be happy. "We have a very good chance of winning" (and putting in a good performance) is the way to keep your sponsorship.
It's pretty easy to contrast SC2 foreigner interviews with Korean progamer interviews (especially BW veterans) and see the marked difference in humility demonstrated. There's a difference between confidence and arrogance.
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I haven't watched many interviews, but I do remember some time ago 마재윤 and 이윤열 both going "I'm gonna win this" in interviews.
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Yeah its definitely a part of mindgames as well. It's not a prediction. Actually knowing savior and nada they both fully believed what they said.
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On November 07 2010 21:59 BottleAbuser wrote:
I haven't watched many interviews, but I do remember some time ago 마재윤 and 이윤열 both going "I'm gonna win this" in interviews.
Like I said, there's a difference in projecting confidence and arrogance. A lot of the foreigners currently lack the tact to avoid the latter in favor of the former. You can predict to win - but you don't have to flaunt your own perceived talents or your opponent's weaknesses in doing so.
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You can count the truly talented number of NA BW players on one hand, it's not much different in SC2.
There definitely are a huge number of self acclaimed tactical geniuses who do the most basic marine marauder build every single game
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On November 07 2010 21:41 LumberJack wrote:
I didnt really want to name names, but in the name of logic and science i guess i should. Gretorp (dallas) and incontrol (dc).
edit: gretorp said that the skill gap between himself and koreans was minimal, and that he hoped to go to korea to compete. incontrol went on for 20min about how amazing he was, how amazing his team was, etc, just to cannon rush his teammate machine and still not go past the third round.
It is arrogant, but when you're at a tournament with the aim to win, unshakable confidence in yourself can go a long way, as long as your ego can handle losing. We gotta remember that SC2 is a sport, and in sport there will be trash talking and talking yourself up. The scene is much different than in 2000/2001 when the vocation of scpro had just come into existence.
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Spare us the righteous indignation. That's how the world works. The majority of sc2 gamers are in their early to mid twenties. If they want to continue gaming at a high level (when everyone in society is telling them to get "real jobs") they had better be able to sell themselves, maintain sponsorships, and gain new opportunities. Being able to articulate yourself in a confident manner is absolutely an asset. Obviously some do it better or worse than others. I don't envy what they do. The large majority of these people will not make it professionally. Of those that do, the majority will never make more than the equivalent of minimum wage for the hours they put in. This is America. If you don't like what they're selling then don't fucking buy it.
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On November 08 2010 00:19 radar14 wrote:
Spare us the righteous indignation. That's how the world works. The majority of sc2 gamers are in their early to mid twenties. If they want to continue gaming at a high level (when everyone in society is telling them to get "real jobs") they had better be able to sell themselves, maintain sponsorships, and gain new opportunities. Being able to articulate yourself in a confident manner is absolutely an asset. Obviously some do it better or worse than others. I don't envy what they do. The large majority of these people will not make it professionally. Of those that do, the majority will never make more than the equivalent of minimum wage for the hours they put in. This is America. If you don't like what they're selling then don't fucking buy it.
I dont agree with that at all. The scene didnt used to be that way, they are literally scamming people, scamming their sponsors, etc. Thats crap and a cop out. 'Hate the game, not the player' mentality doesnt fit here. Convincing sponsors that you are actually good, could actually compete, its pathetic when you cant. I guess its their scam, their hustle, i shouldnt care. The whole point of the blog wasnt to point fingers, but to say how disgusted I am with all these mediocre players calling themselves pro and that they are going to win it all, just to consistently get out in early rounds.
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maybe these players think they are good. maybe they are, maybe they're not. but if so, they're not scamming anyone - at worst, they're deluding themselves (and their sponsors/students).
as for the lessons stuff, you only have to be X amount better than your student to teach them something. obviously the teacher shouldn't misrepresent their skill and student's shouldn't pay for lessons they won't learn anything from.
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EPT
