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On October 13 2010 08:26 Borked wrote:
I won't compare bw to sc2, bw has filled many years of my life since '99 and sc2 is a new game that I want to be good at.
But what I will do is comparing bw forumers to sc2 forumers:
Bw forumers can't accept the reality and even a remote possibility that A PERSON, A GAMER can love 2 games, you guys need to face it that X player can be sad of bw's slow death, and happy about new developments in sc2.
I am surfing TL for a long time , both fanboy of bw and sc2 forums but this "gamist" attitude which bw forumers have is hurting the community. and oh, sc2 players are not the reason bw is dying, it is a company. I understand your anger but please stop decharging that anger with humiliating or bullying sc2 players.
I like how in that entire post, you fail to recognize that BW and SC2 forumers are the same people.
And then I like how even under the assumption that they're different, you don't mention the qualifties of SC2 forumers. You only imply that they're nice mannered and awesome.
Clearly you're being an objective speaker on the issue. 
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On October 13 2010 08:16 Zergneedsfood wrote:Show nested quote +On October 13 2010 08:09 Offhand wrote:On October 13 2010 08:04 Zergneedsfood wrote:
Doesn't mean those people need to come here and argue. I don't see your logic there.
Likewise, this doesn't mean BW fans need to bitch about SC2 and hate on SC2 players. Rumors provoke speculation, and a lot of people are excited to see current BW pros playing SC2. Right, but what I'm saying is that regardless of our constant bickering, the idea is that BW players are angry that SC2 players are coming in and purposely putting on provocative statements about BW's death. And while I don't speak on behalf of all BW fans, I don't think saying that SC2 is "boring" is bitching about SC2. I also don't think we "hate" SC2 players. In fact, most of the posts here merely talk about how they dislike how the arrival of SC2 and Blizzard's legal actions are thrusting SC2 down the throats of everybody, and it's just bad for the community in general.
BW players seem pretty interested on whether or not BW is dying as well. I think plenty of people are alright with it, but the diehards won't give it up. SC2 fans can accept BW going away, BW only fans can't.
So yes, the hostility goes both ways, people who are here exclusively for SC2 (i.e. recent registrations) do get targeted by older members. I got called a 4channer for being excited that Boxer was moving to SC2 (true story)
EDIT: If you still like BW, the fact that it loses the money/fame/glory shouldn't really matter.
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On October 13 2010 08:31 Zergneedsfood wrote:Show nested quote +On October 13 2010 08:26 Borked wrote:
I won't compare bw to sc2, bw has filled many years of my life since '99 and sc2 is a new game that I want to be good at.
But what I will do is comparing bw forumers to sc2 forumers:
Bw forumers can't accept the reality and even a remote possibility that A PERSON, A GAMER can love 2 games, you guys need to face it that X player can be sad of bw's slow death, and happy about new developments in sc2.
I am surfing TL for a long time , both fanboy of bw and sc2 forums but this "gamist" attitude which bw forumers have is hurting the community. and oh, sc2 players are not the reason bw is dying, it is a company. I understand your anger but please stop decharging that anger with humiliating or bullying sc2 players. I like how in that entire post, you fail to recognize that BW and SC2 forumers are the same people. And then I like how even under the assumption that they're different, you don't mention the qualifties of SC2 forumers. You only imply that they're nice mannered and awesome. Clearly you're being an objective speaker on the issue.
They were same ppl in the early stage of beta, but each day ppl separated. So yes, you can call it a failure but my opinions is , at the moment bw and sc2 forumers are mostly different people.
Especially after release of sc2 there are tons of new players just learned about TL.net.
and you immediately proved my point with your answer to my post.
Anyway, I am sad that broodwar is dying in Korea.
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Nobody would do that if they didn't come into BW threads and shit it up with things like "im so glad bw is dead!  " That's just disrespectful regardless of what the subject matter is, it's not even an issue of BW vs. SC2. I don't see SC2 players who have made coherent posts about why they like SC2 more getting bashed.
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Didn't know things were so sour for MBC Heroes. I'm most interested in who this progamer is that will supposedly be getting the largest guaranteed salary for SC2 right now.
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On October 13 2010 08:34 Borked wrote:Show nested quote +On October 13 2010 08:31 Zergneedsfood wrote:On October 13 2010 08:26 Borked wrote:
I won't compare bw to sc2, bw has filled many years of my life since '99 and sc2 is a new game that I want to be good at.
But what I will do is comparing bw forumers to sc2 forumers:
Bw forumers can't accept the reality and even a remote possibility that A PERSON, A GAMER can love 2 games, you guys need to face it that X player can be sad of bw's slow death, and happy about new developments in sc2.
I am surfing TL for a long time , both fanboy of bw and sc2 forums but this "gamist" attitude which bw forumers have is hurting the community. and oh, sc2 players are not the reason bw is dying, it is a company. I understand your anger but please stop decharging that anger with humiliating or bullying sc2 players. I like how in that entire post, you fail to recognize that BW and SC2 forumers are the same people. And then I like how even under the assumption that they're different, you don't mention the qualifties of SC2 forumers. You only imply that they're nice mannered and awesome. Clearly you're being an objective speaker on the issue. They were same ppl in the early stage of beta, but each day ppl separated. So yes, you can call it a failure but my opinions is , at the moment bw and sc2 forumers are mostly different people. and you immediately proved my point with your answer to my post. Anyway, I am sad that broodwar is dying in Korea.
Me posting that you're not being objective doesn't prove anything. I'm just saying you're not being fair to both sides by providing an incredibly flawed perspective.
I haven't even chosen a side in that post. >.>
But anyway....I think this thread gives me a really good idea.
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On October 13 2010 08:32 Offhand wrote:So yes, the hostility goes both ways, people who are here exclusively for SC2 (i.e. recent registrations) do get targeted by older members. I got called a 4channer for being excited that Boxer was moving to SC2 ( true story) EDIT: If you still like BW, the fact that it loses the money/fame/glory shouldn't really matter.
You got called a 4channer for acting like a general asshole with your post(s). Being happy for Boxer is a far cry from what you posted.
Also, it's not about BW losing money/fame/glory, it's about not being watch the pros play it at all.
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United States47024 Posts
On October 13 2010 08:16 Zergneedsfood wrote:
Right, but what I'm saying is that regardless of our constant bickering, the idea is that BW players are angry that SC2 players are coming in and purposely putting on provocative statements about BW's death.
The hate works both ways. Just as many people come into the BW forums to say SC1 players should move on as do people in the SC2 forums say that SC2 sucks. People are generally just limited in their viewpoint because they primarily browse one forum or another and so they get the false impression that one side is more antagonistic than another.
On October 13 2010 08:16 Zergneedsfood wrote:
And while I don't speak on behalf of all BW fans, I don't think saying that SC2 is "boring" is bitching about SC2. I also don't think we "hate" SC2 players.
Again, this happens in every debate on TL (Flash vs Jaedong, SKT fans vs SKT haters, etc.). Moderate views from one side feel like the extreme views from the other are wronging them when they don't stop to think that the extremists on the same side of the fence are doing the same damn thing. This is how these arguments go in circles.
On October 13 2010 08:16 Zergneedsfood wrote:
In fact, most of the posts here merely talk about how they dislike how the arrival of SC2 and Blizzard's legal actions are thrusting SC2 down the throats of everybody, and it's just bad for the community in general.
Except in some cases, that link is tangential at best. I'm sure plenty of progamers/teams would have quit for SC2, Kespa drama or not. Surely not all of them, but at least a fair share of it was not Blizzard-driven.
Spectator numbers were declining noticeably before SC2 became dominant in the public eye. Not all of BW's woes can be attributed to SC2.
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It is sad to see Broodwar die, but I stopped watching it and playing it so it wont effect my life whatsoever. You would think this would make me happy because it means more success for sc2, but I am still sad.
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Brood War will live forever in my heart, and on my hard drive. But it is extremely sad to see the proleague falling apart, and no MSL? =[
I dug up some old Rekrul posts (sorry to bring this up in your own blog, Milkis)
http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/viewblog.php?topic_id=142288¤tpage=4#67
+ Show Spoiler +On August 08 2010 17:19 Rekrul wrote:
...Koreans are totally fad-oriented. So what if it wasn't what they hoped and the fad began as soon as the game out, that doesn't mean it still can't happen later. Also, SC2/GOMTV will be huge, whether you like their commentators or not. And most importantly, SC2 Esports will be huge outside of Korea 100%...this is the game that everyone has been waiting for to make an esport. If it becomes huge outside of Korea that means more big korean companies will want to get involved and the game will eventually become mainstream as it creeps into Korea. If there's one thing I've learned about Koreans is they have their national pride and everyone can instantly start loving something they had no previous knowledge of before ... Or imagine Blizzard getting some key names like Boxer to abandon ties to KESPA and go on a massive advertising campaign for SC2...
=[
http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/viewblog.php?topic_id=142288¤tpage=9#162
=[[[[[
Honestly, I didn't even follow GSL1. I watched a few VODs but they put me to sleep. SC2 is fun to play, and it's fun to follow the community, but it's not fun to actually watch. That's probably the only thing keeping me from burning out - not watching the actual game.
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man sadface for BW scene =[
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Why can't we all live together in a wonderful SC1 and SC2 world? :[
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On October 13 2010 10:55 MrMotionPicture wrote:
Why can't we all live together in a wonderful SC1 and SC2 world? :[
Because there are a lot of people who are thinking the two are mutually exclusive.
Which is false.
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On October 13 2010 09:16 Mastermind wrote:
It is sad to see Broodwar die, but I stopped watching it and playing it so it wont effect my life whatsoever. You would think this would make me happy because it means more success for sc2, but I am still sad.
I agree. I love BW to death and I'm sad to see it go, but honestly it doesn't affect me at all. I still feel a huge emotional attachment to it, but... 
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I don't know what to say
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On October 13 2010 11:00 Zergneedsfood wrote:Show nested quote +On October 13 2010 10:55 MrMotionPicture wrote:
Why can't we all live together in a wonderful SC1 and SC2 world? :[ Because there are a lot of people who are thinking the two are mutually exclusive. Which is false.
They are mutually exclusive in that the rise of SC2 is indirectly leading to the death of BW due to Blizzard's handling of it all. People aren't upset because BW was dying. People know it has to end sometime. It was a magical ride but everyone knew that it was going to turn back into a pumpkin soon or later. People are upset that Blizzard is trying to kill the BW scene and SC2 is helping them do that. That's why the vets are upset about the whole situation. That being said, I'mma pour out some Jameson for SC tonight.
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So many rumors, so few good
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Man they just need to start proleague already, this has been the only topic to talk about for a month now. Everything appears worse than it actually is because we haven't been able to enjoy BW, cause ya know, it's offseason.
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I think I didn't voice my opinion properly. I *LOVE* BW and of course if it were my decision I'd choose for it to never die in Esports and always be huge in both Korea and the foreign scene. My point was that all things eventually come to an end. Of course it stinks that BW is phasing out a lot faster than we all expected, but we all knew that someday it would come. The average life of a competitive video game is lucky to make it to a year or two. The fact that BW has lasted 10 years strong is amazing in itself. What I was trying to say is that if there is a game that will transition from BW, at least it is SC2. I mean, look at SC2 as it is already. It's been out less than 6 months and already has huge tournaments associated with it. Teams are being created, the game growing and being patched to fit competitive needs. Sure it will take some time, but the potential is definitely there. In another 10 years we may all be looking back at SC2 and wish it wasn't being phased out by another game.
Life forces uncomfortable and unpleasant changes on us and the post that I quoted before stated just that. Why not embrace what we have going for us now and try to turn it into the wonderful amazing game that BW was? That's all.
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EPT
