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why dont all the sc2 lovers just get the fuck out of here and let the bw lovers cry about their loss in peace? and why the fuck does konadora get warned, while all those newbies show absolutely no respect?
+ Show Spoiler [irrational long ass rant] +im not the nicest guy on tl and i sure wouldve flamed some of the newbies, but the lack of respect, not just for the veterans, but even moreso for bw, just makes me really sad. everyone pretends to be a lurker and having followed bw 10 yrs, but watching a boxer highlight video on youtube is NOT making you that. most of you come here, learn the names of a few current top pros, some of the legends and watch some stuff, but what you PLAY is sc2. you dont know how it is to have grown up with this game, which was and still is so fucking hard to play, so youd appreciate and cheer for every little move a progamer pulls even more, because you know that you NEVER could do that, in no actual game, and most people not even on micromaps lol. i played sc2, i watched it, i really tried to like it, but god is this game boring and unchallenging. its all the same shit over and over again and theres nothing you really need to practice.
in bw you spent 5000hrs on vulture micro maps, even if you didnt play t. you played mutamicro maps, because you wanted to feel like july, raping marines left and right. i know im drifting away from what i initially was trying to say, but theres little sense to this anyhow, so im just walking down the memory lane. bw hooked me as soon as i played it, it just had what sc2 lacks completely and that is PERSONALITY. it just feels like a clone, like all the other rts out there (except for wc3, cant believe im saying this), which just repeated the same old concept over and over again. bw was true beauty and it was sth that has never been there before and, looking at sc2, never will be there again, at least not anytime soon.
i played sc2 in the beta, it felt old already then. i tried out everything. as a bw veteran im just that much better than the general sc2 newb, and i really liked the idea of having an easy time on the ladder, trying out cute shit and laughing my opponent in the face while raping him with stuff which could be compared to the stove in bw. but while it was easy i couldnt pull off anything, there was nothing cute to try out. people started hyping TLO, for what? i couldnt see anything really original in his moves, all he did was converting ancient bw tricks to sc2, which didnt even work out most of the times. then there was this horrible video with chill, hyping stuff like nuking some newb (ill never forgive you that sellout chill).
i dont even know what to say, so i guess ill just keep ranting on till i realized that bw, for which my attention over the years of course decreased, will die for sure and soon. while i didnt watch or play that much anymore, i still love this game. it wasnt just the game, it was the community. i still talk to people i met on bnet 12 years ago, when i was barely a teenager and grew my first pubic hair. so yeah, my rants is emotionally fuelled and probably not even rational, but i dont give a fuck. if you disagree, why not just keep quiet and let me mourn my loss? show some respect, isnt that what you want from "us bw veterans" for your beloved sc2 and its community?
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sc2 is good and all but watching brood war is just on a different level of suspense and intensity. the skill in sc2 isn't very high and people can still recover from major mistakes. one small mistake in bw and you lost the game even if that mistake you made happened 10 minutes ago. i knew sc2 would supersede bw but not for at least a year... to think in less than 80 days from sc2's release, bw already has a legitimate chance of dying.
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I came to TL because of SC2, and I still hold that SC2 is a great game with an enormous amount of potential not only in Korean eSports, but also over in the West, which has brought me great joy to think about this hobby of mine being more mainstream where I live. That said, only shortly after the announcement of SC2, I pretty much gave up on the game for a while to catch up on BW history and learn more about the game as it stands now. After watching many recent pro matches from both games, I just enjoy BW more, plain and simple. I acknowledge that I got into the BW scene far too late for me to really understand the intricacies of the game or to ever be good at it in any regard, but as it stands, BW flat out requires more skill, is more entertaining to watch, and has a much more devoted standing fan base. Even as a (kinda sorta) SC2 player, this is the worst news I think I've ever heard regarding the eSports scene that I've come to love.
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On October 13 2010 06:31 im a roc wrote:
I came to TL because of SC2, and I still hold that SC2 is a great game with an enormous amount of potential not only in Korean eSports, but also over in the West, which has brought me great joy to think about this hobby of mine being more mainstream where I live. That said, only shortly after the announcement of SC2, I pretty much gave up on the game for a while to catch up on BW history and learn more about the game as it stands now. After watching many recent pro matches from both games, I just enjoy BW more, plain and simple. I acknowledge that I got into the BW scene far too late for me to really understand the intricacies of the game or to ever be good at it in any regard, but as it stands, BW flat out requires more skill, is more entertaining to watch, and has a much more devoted standing fan base. Even as a (kinda sorta) SC2 player, this is the worst news I think I've ever heard regarding the eSports scene that I've come to love.
Thank you. =)
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On October 13 2010 06:31 im a roc wrote:
I came to TL because of SC2, and I still hold that SC2 is a great game with an enormous amount of potential not only in Korean eSports, but also over in the West, which has brought me great joy to think about this hobby of mine being more mainstream where I live. That said, only shortly after the announcement of SC2, I pretty much gave up on the game for a while to catch up on BW history and learn more about the game as it stands now. After watching many recent pro matches from both games, I just enjoy BW more, plain and simple. I acknowledge that I got into the BW scene far too late for me to really understand the intricacies of the game or to ever be good at it in any regard, but as it stands, BW flat out requires more skill, is more entertaining to watch, and has a much more devoted standing fan base. Even as a (kinda sorta) SC2 player, this is the worst news I think I've ever heard regarding the eSports scene that I've come to love.
THIS.
As a long-time BW fan, I am not raging over SC2 creeping into the esports scene or whether it might replace BW. I want the best to happen for both BW and SC2, because I can get to see my old favourite stars like Boxer and Nada make it happen again in SC2 while enjoying the more intricate tactical acuteness of BW.
I am DISGUSTED instead by how Blizzard is trying to kill off BW just to force SC2 up our throats. Just because I enjoy watching BW does not mean I have to sacrifice that to watch another different game entirely, even if it is being forcefully touted as BW's successor. Whatever.
It makes me so SAD that the BW proscene is deteriorating. What happened to rational thinking here, that even veterans of TL are getting warned (or temp banned?) in favor of newer members?
I loved TL for its unique BW identity in the past, and for its wonderful jackpot of information on all players possible. It was a wonderful place for VoD's and live report threads. What is happening to all that now?
Now, TL is becoming more unrecognizable by the day. Slowly, SC2 fills up more of the forums and new members are paying less respect to what made this site successful in the first place: BW.
Sigh... just stop this madness already. Thanks for all the translations so far, but just... keep TL the way it always was... PLEASE!
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Osaka27148 Posts
On October 13 2010 06:33 Manifesto7 wrote:
I am getting tired of this BW vs SC2 bullshit, and I am getting tired of fans from each game taking shots at each other.
Stop fucking derailing threads into useless passive aggressive baiting.
It is a beautiful morning and my bike is ready for a ride. I'm going to work now. And then I have 9 hours to sit and ban people because I don't have to teach today.
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On October 13 2010 06:20 Tazza wrote:Show nested quote +On October 13 2010 06:06 Musoeun wrote:On October 13 2010 05:39 Tazza wrote:
Also, what really pisses me off is that people are saying BW has reached its strategic boundaries. IT HAS NOT. Have you seen how tvz is played nowadays? Or how terrans know how to react to 12 nexus now?
This is like saying
Football(american) has reached its pinnacle, there is nothing more to do, and it should be replaced by football 2. Remember when all the teams used to just run the ball, and were about running, and stopping the running game? I'm not talking about the period before the forward pass, but after, which is what american football is based on, and has been based on since super bowl 1. And so the teams all just ran the ball, but you know what? Great strategies like the spread offense, the triple option, and things like that were invented. And so is Broodwar, its still evolving. I'd argue - since I was one of the people arguing that BW has reached that limit, albeit in defence of the game - that there are two ways you can talk about a "strategic boundary". The first, most literal use, is to say that everything that can be done in a game has been done. This is true for... tic-tac-toe, definitely. Minesweeper, maybe. But the number of games you can really say this about is so vanishingly small that it doesn't make sense to assume I used the term that way. In the sense I'm using it in I mean that we've had demonstrations that everything can be done. Sometimes as cheese, sometimes as a revolution - we've had every unit (except possibly the scout and maybe the infested Terran) used in a serious game now. We've had mech, bio, bio-mech, mech->bio, crazy stuff. Would people stop coming up with new combinations? No. Would people never be forced by new maps to start experimenting again? Of course not. Would new players not have personal idiosyncracies leading to even wilder games? Never. But the basic elements are known (barring another revolutionary discovery akin to muta stacking). Perhaps "tactical boundary" would have been a better term. But I do consider that we've reached some kind of a boundary point (and by "we" I obviously mean the top players), which is where development and longevity can really take off - for your football example, the turning point was the NFL-AFL merger, cementing the NFL's supremacy in American professional sport. But the key was that that merger incorporated a solid foundation in all aspects of the game, which BW now has. I don't know how much of my point is coming across, but I'm at a loss to make it better. Yeah, I'm sorry but I didn't really understand what you were saying. I don't really understand the NFL-AFL merger and how this relates to sc1 and sc2, because they were playing the same game, while sc1 and sc2 are different. And you can say that there are a certain number of units you can use in sc1, but there's also the same number of football players in a football game. Also, there are rules about having enough men on the line stuff, which is kind of similar to "laws" in BW so you don't just make 20 medics and attack. However, this doesn't stop players from doing stuff like the medic blinding spell on observers, and stuff, which is creative, kind of like new trick plays in football
Alright, let me try to simplify then.
1) I'm an apologist for Brood War. But I don't hate SC2 intrinsically, I just dislike what it's done to the scene. It's taken what could have been a jumping-off point for BW and derailed it.
2) The reason I think BW had reached that point is that it's reached the point where everything has been explored. Not in all possible combinations, not for good and all, not done to death, but almost everything is - individually - a "known quantity" now.
3) What the AFL-NFL merger accomplished was to bring together - forcibly, in some cases - two very different styles of football. The NFL was largely the "3 yards and a cloud of dust" league; the AFL was attracting a different audience through aerial offensive displays, helped in large part by more liberal passing rules as well as the different "culture". Combining the two led to the full fruition of the potential. While I didn't fully flesh it out, BW really reached that spot maybe two years ago, when the "best player" crown was unclear between Bisu, Stork, Flash, and Jaedong - as compared to years of Terran domination and then the domination of sAviOr and Jaedong, there appeared to be near parity - anything was viable. And that's continued even today: I'd argue what Kal and free lack compared to Flash and Jaedong is not skill but the so-called "killer instinct".
In short, there are two times in a game's life when "You can do anything!" and win. The first is when it's first brought out - and anything really does mean "anything", because no one knows "how to play the game". The second - which is what Brood War had reached - is when there's a large enough strategic history and knowledge-base to draw on, and even the "new" can be seen as variations on, or having been foreshadowed by, the old.
I should probably stop derailing the thread with my philosophy of games though.
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Oh I am sad. *sigh*
I was a bit late to get in on a lot of SC1's history, but after reading and watching a bunch of VODS, it really stuck to me. I don't really know all the names...or any of that stuff....but jeez....gonna be hard to let go and watch pure SC2 streams....which already make me sleepy. 
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Calgary25980 Posts
On October 13 2010 05:44 Tazza wrote:Show nested quote +On October 13 2010 04:05 AlBundy wrote:On October 13 2010 03:48 Half wrote:
idk international chess has been around for a few hundred years now.
You're saying that any game, regardless of skill cap or design, will allow for gosu micro given enough time? This is a false statement. People aren't just complaining that the player micro is bad, but the game is designed so that player micro can only improve so much. First you compare chess with esports. I won't argue about that because my english skills are somewhat limited but it's like comparing apples and oranges. Second you say that "the game is designed so that player micro can only improve so much." Such a huge statement surely deserves to be backed by solid evidence. Can you direct me to an relevant thread? I bet that you, like me, may be tired of seeing "pro" gamers a-move big balls of unit into each other. That is not because of bad design. To me that is the consequence of insufficient player skill. I think that they may be lacking apm, or they may be lacking tactical sense. E.g marines vs. banelings, I have never seen a Terran player actually micro individually his marines (actually I saw it only once) in order to avoid banelings. Another example would be Zergling micro. Too often I see uncontroled zerglings running in circles and doing nothing but blocking the path of other units. All in all there are lots of instances when players do not micro properly. Fortunately perfect micro is not yet mandatory but I'm confident that it will become obligatory over time, when players will actually step their game up. I definitely feel that in term of micro we have only seen the emerging tip of the iceberg . Comparing sc1 to sc2 is like comparing apples to oranges
Howso? I feel it's an extremely valid comparison. If fact, I can't see how any rational person could justify your comment.
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This shit really pisses me off. -_-
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On October 13 2010 07:06 Musoeun wrote:Show nested quote +On October 13 2010 06:20 Tazza wrote:On October 13 2010 06:06 Musoeun wrote:On October 13 2010 05:39 Tazza wrote:
Also, what really pisses me off is that people are saying BW has reached its strategic boundaries. IT HAS NOT. Have you seen how tvz is played nowadays? Or how terrans know how to react to 12 nexus now?
This is like saying
Football(american) has reached its pinnacle, there is nothing more to do, and it should be replaced by football 2. Remember when all the teams used to just run the ball, and were about running, and stopping the running game? I'm not talking about the period before the forward pass, but after, which is what american football is based on, and has been based on since super bowl 1. And so the teams all just ran the ball, but you know what? Great strategies like the spread offense, the triple option, and things like that were invented. And so is Broodwar, its still evolving. I'd argue - since I was one of the people arguing that BW has reached that limit, albeit in defence of the game - that there are two ways you can talk about a "strategic boundary". The first, most literal use, is to say that everything that can be done in a game has been done. This is true for... tic-tac-toe, definitely. Minesweeper, maybe. But the number of games you can really say this about is so vanishingly small that it doesn't make sense to assume I used the term that way. In the sense I'm using it in I mean that we've had demonstrations that everything can be done. Sometimes as cheese, sometimes as a revolution - we've had every unit (except possibly the scout and maybe the infested Terran) used in a serious game now. We've had mech, bio, bio-mech, mech->bio, crazy stuff. Would people stop coming up with new combinations? No. Would people never be forced by new maps to start experimenting again? Of course not. Would new players not have personal idiosyncracies leading to even wilder games? Never. But the basic elements are known (barring another revolutionary discovery akin to muta stacking). Perhaps "tactical boundary" would have been a better term. But I do consider that we've reached some kind of a boundary point (and by "we" I obviously mean the top players), which is where development and longevity can really take off - for your football example, the turning point was the NFL-AFL merger, cementing the NFL's supremacy in American professional sport. But the key was that that merger incorporated a solid foundation in all aspects of the game, which BW now has. I don't know how much of my point is coming across, but I'm at a loss to make it better. Yeah, I'm sorry but I didn't really understand what you were saying. I don't really understand the NFL-AFL merger and how this relates to sc1 and sc2, because they were playing the same game, while sc1 and sc2 are different. And you can say that there are a certain number of units you can use in sc1, but there's also the same number of football players in a football game. Also, there are rules about having enough men on the line stuff, which is kind of similar to "laws" in BW so you don't just make 20 medics and attack. However, this doesn't stop players from doing stuff like the medic blinding spell on observers, and stuff, which is creative, kind of like new trick plays in football Alright, let me try to simplify then. 1) I'm an apologist for Brood War. But I don't hate SC2 intrinsically, I just dislike what it's done to the scene. It's taken what could have been a jumping-off point for BW and derailed it. 2) The reason I think BW had reached that point is that it's reached the point where everything has been explored. Not in all possible combinations, not for good and all, not done to death, but almost everything is - individually - a "known quantity" now. 3) What the AFL-NFL merger accomplished was to bring together - forcibly, in some cases - two very different styles of football. The NFL was largely the "3 yards and a cloud of dust" league; the AFL was attracting a different audience through aerial offensive displays, helped in large part by more liberal passing rules as well as the different "culture". Combining the two led to the full fruition of the potential. While I didn't fully flesh it out, BW really reached that spot maybe two years ago, when the "best player" crown was unclear between Bisu, Stork, Flash, and Jaedong - as compared to years of Terran domination and then the domination of sAviOr and Jaedong, there appeared to be near parity - anything was viable. And that's continued even today: I'd argue what Kal and free lack compared to Flash and Jaedong is not skill but the so-called "killer instinct". In short, there are two times in a game's life when "You can do anything!" and win. The first is when it's first brought out - and anything really does mean "anything", because no one knows "how to play the game". The second - which is what Brood War had reached - is when there's a large enough strategic history and knowledge-base to draw on, and even the "new" can be seen as variations on, or having been foreshadowed by, the old. I should probably stop derailing the thread with my philosophy of games though.
But see, my point is, you don't know when new stuff will come out. Did we know that the bio into mech play would ever start? Did we know when the spread offense would start? No, back in that time period, people had no idea, just like how we have no idea if the future of football will continue to be more aerial attacks, or change back to the running game. Also, the AFL and NFL, when combined, became great, but we're not combining sc1 and sc2 here, we're killing one off for the other
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Wow, I really didn't think that the death of SCBW would be so sudden. I really hope it doesn't die. I enjoy playing SC2 more, but SCBW is so much more entertaining to watch.
However, I'm somewhat excited to hear about some of the older gamers might move to SC2. I feel like they'd be a lot more competitive in the SC2 scene than in SCBW. I'm hoping Reach makes a very manly return.
I really hope the SCBW scene survives long enough for me to still enjoy some epic S-class games.
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On October 13 2010 01:55 Nu11 wrote:
Just a question, and I do not intend to make anyone angry, please understand that is not my purpose.
I have been a fan of Starcraft since it was born. Starcraft 2 is the evolution of starcraft. It is just as much starcraft and more.. why do so many people not want to accept starcraft 2?
I would just like to know what the reasoning is. Do you not see any potential in the fresh new strategies, of potentially seeing a new boxer born, of seeing new teams, new drama, new upsets and virtually a whole new metagame evolve?
Why does everyone want to stick with Starcraft? I mean, it has a sequel now... in Broodwar are we just going to see no one but jaedong / flash dominate?
I know that you all love broodwar so much. I do too. 10 years of my life partially dedicated to the game. I have been in tears over many games and upsets over the years, I am a relativity new member of TL but the soul and spirit of STARCRAFT is in SC2.
I just found the game to be getting rather stale. It's been a long time. We haven't had anyone creative come along in so long. Every game is so predictable. The best players right now just play cookie cutter every single game because it's perfected. I Personally want to see the evolution again, new strategies, new winners, new faces, familiar faces. Same soul, same experience.
If they can exist side by side... then do it! Broodwar is a classic. But SC2 needs to grow. Korea needs to play it. It is the evolution, the step up of their game.
100% respect to everyone who thinks differently than me. It is your hobby and your choice to, but you should try to open up a bit. There was a time when starcraft never existed. Do you remember how enjoyable it was to discover anew? It can happen again. Legacy can be born again. I personally want to be here to see it happen.
and about the money.. of course. That's the only reason professional starcraft ever existed. Money, no other reason. SC2 is no different.
SC2 has shittier units and maps, that's why
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On October 13 2010 06:20 [DUF]MethodMan wrote:why dont all the sc2 lovers just get the fuck out of here and let the bw lovers cry about their loss in peace? and why the fuck does konadora get warned, while all those newbies show absolutely no respect? + Show Spoiler [irrational long ass rant] +im not the nicest guy on tl and i sure wouldve flamed some of the newbies, but the lack of respect, not just for the veterans, but even moreso for bw, just makes me really sad. everyone pretends to be a lurker and having followed bw 10 yrs, but watching a boxer highlight video on youtube is NOT making you that. most of you come here, learn the names of a few current top pros, some of the legends and watch some stuff, but what you PLAY is sc2. you dont know how it is to have grown up with this game, which was and still is so fucking hard to play, so youd appreciate and cheer for every little move a progamer pulls even more, because you know that you NEVER could do that, in no actual game, and most people not even on micromaps lol. i played sc2, i watched it, i really tried to like it, but god is this game boring and unchallenging. its all the same shit over and over again and theres nothing you really need to practice.
in bw you spent 5000hrs on vulture micro maps, even if you didnt play t. you played mutamicro maps, because you wanted to feel like july, raping marines left and right. i know im drifting away from what i initially was trying to say, but theres little sense to this anyhow, so im just walking down the memory lane. bw hooked me as soon as i played it, it just had what sc2 lacks completely and that is PERSONALITY. it just feels like a clone, like all the other rts out there (except for wc3, cant believe im saying this), which just repeated the same old concept over and over again. bw was true beauty and it was sth that has never been there before and, looking at sc2, never will be there again, at least not anytime soon.
i played sc2 in the beta, it felt old already then. i tried out everything. as a bw veteran im just that much better than the general sc2 newb, and i really liked the idea of having an easy time on the ladder, trying out cute shit and laughing my opponent in the face while raping him with stuff which could be compared to the stove in bw. but while it was easy i couldnt pull off anything, there was nothing cute to try out. people started hyping TLO, for what? i couldnt see anything really original in his moves, all he did was converting ancient bw tricks to sc2, which didnt even work out most of the times. then there was this horrible video with chill, hyping stuff like nuking some newb (ill never forgive you that sellout chill).
i dont even know what to say, so i guess ill just keep ranting on till i realized that bw, for which my attention over the years of course decreased, will die for sure and soon. while i didnt watch or play that much anymore, i still love this game. it wasnt just the game, it was the community. i still talk to people i met on bnet 12 years ago, when i was barely a teenager and grew my first pubic hair. so yeah, my rants is emotionally fuelled and probably not even rational, but i dont give a fuck. if you disagree, why not just keep quiet and let me mourn my loss? show some respect, isnt that what you want from "us bw veterans" for your beloved sc2 and its community?
Because this isn't bad news for some people.
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United States47024 Posts
On October 13 2010 06:20 [DUF]MethodMan wrote:why dont all the sc2 lovers just get the fuck out of here and let the bw lovers cry about their loss in peace? and why the fuck does konadora get warned, while all those newbies show absolutely no respect? + Show Spoiler [irrational long ass rant] +im not the nicest guy on tl and i sure wouldve flamed some of the newbies, but the lack of respect, not just for the veterans, but even moreso for bw, just makes me really sad. everyone pretends to be a lurker and having followed bw 10 yrs, but watching a boxer highlight video on youtube is NOT making you that. most of you come here, learn the names of a few current top pros, some of the legends and watch some stuff, but what you PLAY is sc2. you dont know how it is to have grown up with this game, which was and still is so fucking hard to play, so youd appreciate and cheer for every little move a progamer pulls even more, because you know that you NEVER could do that, in no actual game, and most people not even on micromaps lol. i played sc2, i watched it, i really tried to like it, but god is this game boring and unchallenging. its all the same shit over and over again and theres nothing you really need to practice.
in bw you spent 5000hrs on vulture micro maps, even if you didnt play t. you played mutamicro maps, because you wanted to feel like july, raping marines left and right. i know im drifting away from what i initially was trying to say, but theres little sense to this anyhow, so im just walking down the memory lane. bw hooked me as soon as i played it, it just had what sc2 lacks completely and that is PERSONALITY. it just feels like a clone, like all the other rts out there (except for wc3, cant believe im saying this), which just repeated the same old concept over and over again. bw was true beauty and it was sth that has never been there before and, looking at sc2, never will be there again, at least not anytime soon.
i played sc2 in the beta, it felt old already then. i tried out everything. as a bw veteran im just that much better than the general sc2 newb, and i really liked the idea of having an easy time on the ladder, trying out cute shit and laughing my opponent in the face while raping him with stuff which could be compared to the stove in bw. but while it was easy i couldnt pull off anything, there was nothing cute to try out. people started hyping TLO, for what? i couldnt see anything really original in his moves, all he did was converting ancient bw tricks to sc2, which didnt even work out most of the times. then there was this horrible video with chill, hyping stuff like nuking some newb (ill never forgive you that sellout chill).
i dont even know what to say, so i guess ill just keep ranting on till i realized that bw, for which my attention over the years of course decreased, will die for sure and soon. while i didnt watch or play that much anymore, i still love this game. it wasnt just the game, it was the community. i still talk to people i met on bnet 12 years ago, when i was barely a teenager and grew my first pubic hair. so yeah, my rants is emotionally fuelled and probably not even rational, but i dont give a fuck. if you disagree, why not just keep quiet and let me mourn my loss? show some respect, isnt that what you want from "us bw veterans" for your beloved sc2 and its community?
Because despite being misguided, misinformed, and disrespectful, those posters bothered to type out coherent thoughts relevant to the discussion.
As I recall, shitty one-liners are not ok, regardless of who you are. Especially if it's simply attacking someone based on their join date.
TBH if it were a newbie and not kona who made that statement, it probably would have been a 2-day and not a warning.
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On October 13 2010 07:52 Offhand wrote:Show nested quote +On October 13 2010 06:20 [DUF]MethodMan wrote:why dont all the sc2 lovers just get the fuck out of here and let the bw lovers cry about their loss in peace? and why the fuck does konadora get warned, while all those newbies show absolutely no respect? + Show Spoiler [irrational long ass rant] +im not the nicest guy on tl and i sure wouldve flamed some of the newbies, but the lack of respect, not just for the veterans, but even moreso for bw, just makes me really sad. everyone pretends to be a lurker and having followed bw 10 yrs, but watching a boxer highlight video on youtube is NOT making you that. most of you come here, learn the names of a few current top pros, some of the legends and watch some stuff, but what you PLAY is sc2. you dont know how it is to have grown up with this game, which was and still is so fucking hard to play, so youd appreciate and cheer for every little move a progamer pulls even more, because you know that you NEVER could do that, in no actual game, and most people not even on micromaps lol. i played sc2, i watched it, i really tried to like it, but god is this game boring and unchallenging. its all the same shit over and over again and theres nothing you really need to practice.
in bw you spent 5000hrs on vulture micro maps, even if you didnt play t. you played mutamicro maps, because you wanted to feel like july, raping marines left and right. i know im drifting away from what i initially was trying to say, but theres little sense to this anyhow, so im just walking down the memory lane. bw hooked me as soon as i played it, it just had what sc2 lacks completely and that is PERSONALITY. it just feels like a clone, like all the other rts out there (except for wc3, cant believe im saying this), which just repeated the same old concept over and over again. bw was true beauty and it was sth that has never been there before and, looking at sc2, never will be there again, at least not anytime soon.
i played sc2 in the beta, it felt old already then. i tried out everything. as a bw veteran im just that much better than the general sc2 newb, and i really liked the idea of having an easy time on the ladder, trying out cute shit and laughing my opponent in the face while raping him with stuff which could be compared to the stove in bw. but while it was easy i couldnt pull off anything, there was nothing cute to try out. people started hyping TLO, for what? i couldnt see anything really original in his moves, all he did was converting ancient bw tricks to sc2, which didnt even work out most of the times. then there was this horrible video with chill, hyping stuff like nuking some newb (ill never forgive you that sellout chill).
i dont even know what to say, so i guess ill just keep ranting on till i realized that bw, for which my attention over the years of course decreased, will die for sure and soon. while i didnt watch or play that much anymore, i still love this game. it wasnt just the game, it was the community. i still talk to people i met on bnet 12 years ago, when i was barely a teenager and grew my first pubic hair. so yeah, my rants is emotionally fuelled and probably not even rational, but i dont give a fuck. if you disagree, why not just keep quiet and let me mourn my loss? show some respect, isnt that what you want from "us bw veterans" for your beloved sc2 and its community? Because this isn't bad news for some people.
Doesn't mean those people need to come here and argue. I don't see your logic there.
On October 13 2010 07:37 garbanzo wrote:
Wow, I really didn't think that the death of SCBW would be so sudden. I really hope it doesn't die. I enjoy playing SC2 more, but SCBW is so much more entertaining to watch.
However, I'm somewhat excited to hear about some of the older gamers might move to SC2. I feel like they'd be a lot more competitive in the SC2 scene than in SCBW. I'm hoping Reach makes a very manly return.
I really hope the SCBW scene survives long enough for me to still enjoy some epic S-class games.
Also. Stop saying that SCBW is dying. I would argue that the lifespan of BW has still yet to be decided. Any time a sequel comes out, there's bound to be a bunch of people who play the next one. I know, because I'm one of the players.I also happen to become one of those players that stopped playing SC2 because I got a little bit bored.
True, the pros are leaving, but I don't think that's enough to say that a game dies. A game's "life" should be subjective on one's own experience with the game.
For example, the Halo Franchise has been "dead" to me for a long time since I've always come back to Starcraft. Doesn't mean Halo's dead. It's just dead...to me.
I don't like it when a game is generalized into a large package and then categorized as "dead" as soon as the big dogs leave the house. That shouldn't be the case. If you're still enjoying the game and playing competitively on ICCup (like me! :D), then SC1 shouldn't be dead for you.
Sure you won't get any new games, but have you honestly watched all of the VODS? Probably not. And even if you did, there's bound to be things that you didn't spot, games that you weren't too clear on. The memories remain, and as far as I'm concerned, BW has yet to die.
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I knew it. Sc2 would kill BW. And for some of us that is really hard to deal with. Our Mozart is dead, and we don't care that much for J. Bieber ("yet").
But please, stop trying to convince us.
Tread softly because you tread on my dreams.
That's all I have to say, now I'm going to embrace my best friend, the small VOD thread, like never before....
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On October 13 2010 08:04 Zergneedsfood wrote:
Doesn't mean those people need to come here and argue. I don't see your logic there.
Likewise, this doesn't mean BW fans need to bitch about SC2 and hate on SC2 players.
Rumors provoke speculation, and a lot of people are excited to see current BW pros playing SC2.
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On October 13 2010 08:09 Offhand wrote:Show nested quote +On October 13 2010 08:04 Zergneedsfood wrote:
Doesn't mean those people need to come here and argue. I don't see your logic there.
Likewise, this doesn't mean BW fans need to bitch about SC2 and hate on SC2 players. Rumors provoke speculation, and a lot of people are excited to see current BW pros playing SC2.
Right, but what I'm saying is that regardless of our constant bickering, the idea is that BW players are angry that SC2 players are coming in and purposely putting on provocative statements about BW's death.
And while I don't speak on behalf of all BW fans, I don't think saying that SC2 is "boring" is bitching about SC2. I also don't think we "hate" SC2 players.
In fact, most of the posts here merely talk about how they dislike how the arrival of SC2 and Blizzard's legal actions are thrusting SC2 down the throats of everybody, and it's just bad for the community in general.
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I won't compare bw to sc2, bw has filled many years of my life since '99 and sc2 is a new game that I want to be good at.
But what I will do is comparing bw forumers to sc2 forumers:
Bw forumers can't accept the reality and even a remote possibility that A PERSON, A GAMER can love 2 games, you guys need to face it that X player can be sad of bw's slow death, and happy about new developments in sc2. I'm so sad It's getting harder and harder to watch bw pro-scene witch I enjoy in incredible amount, I didn't miss any MSL/OSL/Proleague matches this year and this is just this year but on the other hand, I am really excited having NaDa, boxer in GSL.
I am surfing TL for a long time , both fanboy of bw and sc2 forums but this "gamist" attitude which bw forumers have is hurting the community. and oh, sc2 players are not the reason bw is dying, it is a company. I understand your anger but please stop decharging that anger with humiliating or bullying sc2 players.
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