The rumor mill is spinning quite hard - Page 8

On October 13 2010 04:54 2Pacalypse- wrote:

Mantoss playing unmanly game? Yeah right!


And to all this people saying BW had 10 years and it's time to move on, I hope you get kicked in the balls by some weird half naked guy doing a reality tv show about kicking random people in balls!

On October 13 2010 02:14 Nu11 wrote:


why would you say "for that game"

it is the natural evolution for starcraft 1 players to move to Starcraft 2. It is the successor to that game, like broodwar was to the original Starcraft.

The only reason anyone was ever playing SC at a competitive level in Korea was for money, dont let yourself be blinded by your love. It is a buisness. Esports is a business. SC1 is only as popular as a professional esport because there was money to be made.

On October 13 2010 02:27 Nu11 wrote:


There is very little difference between micro in SC2 and micro in SC1.

In fact, players who are better at micro in SC2 will gain an even greater advantage than they will in SC1 due to how units work.

It looks exactly the same to the observer, btw.

The notion that the best players are "1aing" is simply untrue. Unit behavior exploitation will take extreme skill and is no where near developed yet, give it time.

On October 13 2010 02:28 konadora wrote:
"join date: 26th august 2010"

On October 13 2010 02:40 mdb wrote:
I`m so sad reading all of this. The worst thing is that someone managed to destroy a pro-scene that was build so hard over the years for a game that is just simply worse than bw. I cant get over this.

On October 13 2010 05:20 Ramiel wrote:
Also i find it funny how all of these older members / site contributors are getting warned / temp banned in posts, when they are responding to intentionally inflammatory or ignorant posts from new members. How far TL has fallen Now TL is here to please the SC2 crowd, because it is the sc2 crowd that is bringing in the money for the site.

On October 13 2010 05:24 TOloseGT wrote:


Read those banned comments again. TL champions rationality and reason above all else.

On October 13 2010 05:17 Nouar wrote:


Maaaaaan, would all of you stop, take a deep breath, and THINK about it a bit ?

What was Brood War in 2001 ? Did it have 1 base play, cheesy games ? Yes. Did it have muta micro, cute tricks, well thought-out maps ? No. Were there Pro-teams, salaries, sponsored gamers ? No, or so few...

HOW CAN YOU SAY that sc2 is WORSE than sc1 ? You're comparing to a game 10years old ! Just look at what that game was back then, and see how much sc2 has evolved in 3 months ? Micro tricks are coming (void rays, magic box, etc etc), corps (even european) are thinking about hiring teams or players, we already have a league...

It's not starting from scratch ! It is taking giant steps and probably, if the game lives up to its expectations and actually has the skill ceiling and wow! factor for spectators, in about 1, 1.5years we will have catched up to where brood war was 6 months ago ! It is not destroying only to destroy, but to evolve and develop...

I love brood war too, right NOW, I find it to be more fun to watch, but sc reached it's ceiling imo 2 years ago, it's becoming too old, less young blood is coming, less spectators compared to 2 years ago... Would you have even DREAMED about an osl finals abroad ? They didn't have a CHOICE if they wanted to try and grow anymore....

if you don't want to see sc2 grow, you'll only find the death of all starcraft at the end in a few years... It might not be exactly the same game, but hell, ending like war3 with a few tourneys with the only 10 same players and same games for 3 years is NOT the end you want to see.
Give esport a chance to develop even further, and don't fucking blame starcraft 2 for killing brood war, when it is transitioning to something potentially bigger instead of slowly dying... (look at the spectator count over the last 3 years and have the guts to tell me it wouldn't have died eventually in another 2/3years...)



OK you love brood war, most of us do, but don't shit on sc2. please.

On October 13 2010 05:33 zenMaster wrote:
SC2 will die, when Blizzard makes a new RTS. mhahaha.
Sad that I tuned into BW around beginning of 2010, maybe I still have a chance watch a full year of PL.
SC2 will not last longer than BW, the only reason for their success is the star power they're gaining from ex-BW legends. With Blizzard having control over everything involving SC2, it will not progress over the primitive "e-sports" structure. Top 5 players will make a living off it while the rest starve. Have fun.

On October 13 2010 04:05 AlBundy wrote:



First you compare chess with esports. I won't argue about that because my english skills are somewhat limited but it's like comparing apples and oranges.

Second you say that "the game is designed so that player micro can only improve so much." Such a huge statement surely deserves to be backed by solid evidence. Can you direct me to an relevant thread?
I bet that you, like me, may be tired of seeing "pro" gamers a-move big balls of unit into each other. That is not because of bad design. To me that is the consequence of insufficient player skill. I think that they may be lacking apm, or they may be lacking tactical sense. E.g marines vs. banelings, I have never seen a Terran player actually micro individually his marines (actually I saw it only once) in order to avoid banelings. Another example would be Zergling micro. Too often I see uncontroled zerglings running in circles and doing nothing but blocking the path of other units.
All in all there are lots of instances when players do not micro properly. Fortunately perfect micro is not yet mandatory but I'm confident that it will become obligatory over time, when players will actually step their game up. I definitely feel that in term of micro we have only seen the emerging tip of the iceberg .

On October 13 2010 05:33 Ramiel wrote:


And the same could be said for the obtuse comments of the plethora of low post count noobs.

On October 13 2010 05:39 Tazza wrote:
Also, what really pisses me off is that people are saying BW has reached its strategic boundaries. IT HAS NOT. Have you seen how tvz is played nowadays? Or how terrans know how to react to 12 nexus now?

This is like saying
Football(american) has reached its pinnacle, there is nothing more to do, and it should be replaced by football 2. Remember when all the teams used to just run the ball, and were about running, and stopping the running game? I'm not talking about the period before the forward pass, but after, which is what american football is based on, and has been based on since super bowl 1. And so the teams all just ran the ball, but you know what? Great strategies like the spread offense, the triple option, and things like that were invented. And so is Broodwar, its still evolving.

On October 13 2010 05:39 Tazza wrote:
Also, what really pisses me off is that people are saying BW has reached its strategic boundaries. IT HAS NOT. Have you seen how tvz is played nowadays? Or how terrans know how to react to 12 nexus now?

This is like saying
Football(american) has reached its pinnacle, there is nothing more to do, and it should be replaced by football 2. Remember when all the teams used to just run the ball, and were about running, and stopping the running game? I'm not talking about the period before the forward pass, but after, which is what american football is based on, and has been based on since super bowl 1. And so the teams all just ran the ball, but you know what? Great strategies like the spread offense, the triple option, and things like that were invented. And so is Broodwar, its still evolving.

On September 28 2010 05:46 Ver wrote:
SC mapped out? Few innovators/innovations? Are we watching the same games here? The late 2009/2010 season has been one of the most innovative years ever! There's a large amount of exploring left in many of these systems.

For Terran alone (listing general systems, not the absurd amount of variations):

TvZ-
Safe 14cc on 2 player maps
a dozen different variations of bio -> mech and vice versa with a lot more room for further exploration (this is huge!)
Flexible Valkyrie first openings that can transition into many different possibilities
A totally new approach vs 2 hatch muta with aggressive marine pushes (changes a lot)
7 Rax (and overlord snipes from it)
4 rax -> triple port wraith
2 rax acad allins
3rd denial vs 3 hatch muta (very unexplored and complex)
2 base allin vs crazy zerg (3 hatch muta to ultra)
Revolutionary lategame defense based off of aggressive vessel raids, covering infantry, and massed tanks (probably the biggest change in years along with bio-mech transitions)
12pool Lair with a very different and expansive early/midgame
Improvements on overall mech play (several new midgame options)
Heavy and consistent Vulture/Valkyrie!? (totally unexplored)

TvP- Many different 3 base timings
Many variations in the 2 fact after cc system both from siege expand and from FD
12 Nexus variations and emphasis
1 fact mine double expand in response to 12 Nexus
New midgame Carrier transition ideas both before and after arbiters
Rax Expand!! (a huge system with tons more exploration but right now there are many variations already)

+ Show Spoiler [Some specific games] +

As long as the pro scene stays alive in courts BW is fine. SC2 is just new (and getting many temporary tournies/players because of this) and people need a break from BW. Give half a year/year and things should be looking better.

On October 13 2010 05:33 zenMaster wrote:
SC2 will die, when Blizzard makes a new RTS. mhahaha.
Sad that I tuned into BW around beginning of 2010, maybe I still have a chance watch a full year of PL.
SC2 will not last longer than BW, the only reason for their success is the star power they're gaining from ex-BW legends. With Blizzard having control over everything involving SC2, it will not progress over the primitive "e-sports" structure. Top 5 players will make a living off it while the rest starve. Have fun.

On October 13 2010 06:06 Musoeun wrote:


I'd argue - since I was one of the people arguing that BW has reached that limit, albeit in defence of the game - that there are two ways you can talk about a "strategic boundary". The first, most literal use, is to say that everything that can be done in a game has been done. This is true for... tic-tac-toe, definitely. Minesweeper, maybe. But the number of games you can really say this about is so vanishingly small that it doesn't make sense to assume I used the term that way.

In the sense I'm using it in I mean that we've had demonstrations that everything can be done. Sometimes as cheese, sometimes as a revolution - we've had every unit (except possibly the scout and maybe the infested Terran) used in a serious game now. We've had mech, bio, bio-mech, mech->bio, crazy stuff. Would people stop coming up with new combinations? No. Would people never be forced by new maps to start experimenting again? Of course not. Would new players not have personal idiosyncracies leading to even wilder games? Never. But the basic elements are known (barring another revolutionary discovery akin to muta stacking). Perhaps "tactical boundary" would have been a better term. But I do consider that we've reached some kind of a boundary point (and by "we" I obviously mean the top players), which is where development and longevity can really take off - for your football example, the turning point was the NFL-AFL merger, cementing the NFL's supremacy in American professional sport. But the key was that that merger incorporated a solid foundation in all aspects of the game, which BW now has. I don't know how much of my point is coming across, but I'm at a loss to make it better.