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iNcontroL
USA29055 Posts
On October 02 2010 07:18 fnaticAugury wrote:Show nested quote +Under new ownership Gosucoaching.com has cut out the middle-man aspect and returned to simplicity. No longer will you pay the site at large and then go through a gauntlet of scheduling to get a session. Instead, Gosucoaching will function as a service to both the coaches and the students. Coaches will be able to advertise themselves on the site for a small fee and students will only have to go to 1 place to shop for someone that is interested/willing to coach. Fees, scheduling and anything else is controlled by the coaches. Gosucoaching will function as a quality control site. If a coach is doing a poor job, skipping sessions, bm etc.. they will be removed. The site will soon implement a rating system so all coaches can be reviewed by their students and viewed by prospective students. You haven't explained how you're going to deal with any issues that come up. You're putting all of the responsibility on the coaches, and not offering any form of protection for the people signing up through coaching on your site. How are you going to protect students from being screwed over like before? A better system is in place, but I don't see how you're proactively attempting to prevent issues from arising. Cutting out the "middle man" is nice, but then what's the point of the business? You should be offering a service that's more reliable/trustworthy than a craigslist listing, but you haven't stated how you're going to do that.
If a coach is scamming or w/e we will remove them from the database and out them. That risk has ALWAYS existed we are simply publicizing it which creates a deterrent. no business can offer you 0 risk. The site has a rating system and will remove bad coaches... how is that "full responsibility on the coaches" and even if it was, why is that a bad thing?
Students are protected because they aren't paying a site to have something set up for them (middle man) they are paying the coaches for a service. Just like I have done on a daily basis.
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iNcontroL
USA29055 Posts
On October 02 2010 06:41 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote:Show nested quote +On October 02 2010 06:33 {88}iNcontroL wrote:On October 02 2010 06:08 floor exercise wrote:On October 02 2010 05:51 Liquid`HuK wrote:On October 02 2010 05:42 floor exercise wrote:
Also assuming this new owner gets some % for setting up the trainees with coaches, what's to stop coaches from just not using the service? There obviously has to be some incentive for the new owner to operate gosucoaching, and there has to be some incentive for coaches to use the service.
Every second thread on TL is a gosuthis or a gosuthat so it would be disheartening if the only reason to join it would be to able to get your name out there on TL through gosucoaching without being banned for advertising yourself.
Maybe a forum dedicated to finding practice partners, teams and coaches is in order. from what i read the coaches play a flat rate to use the site I don't like it. We have limited information so if inc wants to respond and tell me and I am wrong and stupid and ugly that's fine but here's what I don't really like: I know Incontrol isn't doing the legwork, making these threads and answering all the questions on behalf of this fancy pants business man only to pay a premium to use his site. And I kind of doubt the "featured" coaches or what have you are either. The ones people actually want to be coached by. I know Gosucoaching often advertises under the guise of their tournaments, and in a sense that's acceptable. But there is a trend on teamliquid to let them freely advertise and discuss their website that isn't offered to individual coaches at all. In many cases they get their threads closed or they get banned, or in the case of people like Trump they pretty much do it offsite. (I am not sure if trump charges for his lessons i just see him giving them on his stream) So what it looks to me, admittedly well on the outside, is that through gosucoaching not only can Inc and the EG members offer their coaching services on teamliquid (and threads like this are free advertising) while individual coaches can't, they also charge them a fee for what I can see as the only possible real incentive to join up: get their name out on TL as well. So why doesn't TL just add a forum for this sort of thing? Hell why doesn't TL charge people to just directly advertise their coaching services here? Gosucoaching seems like it wants to be this essentially pointless middle man exploiting their reign on TL. Coaching is a service that's worth money to people, I get that, it's cool. But how does Gosucoaching help people do that? I know the internet is a lot bigger than just teamliquid, but I think it's fair to estimate that like 90% of your customers come from TL I think you are over-thinking this.. or under-thinking it. We are not going to use TL as advetisement. This is a one time blog to announce a relevant community site is back after much drama/closure etc. After that the coaches are merely on the site and they function within the society of SC2. The "incentive" is to be advertised / rated as a coach. The "flat rate" is undecided on how it will function but probably just a monthly fee that will go to the site for maintenance, owner profit and the weekly. If you don't like it you can coach on your own. Simple as that. We aren't forcing people to coach from there or whatever. But making yourself known as a top rated coach on the top coaching site is pretty lucrative for _EVERYONE_ involved (coaches, owner, students alike). @questions about name: We kept the name because we already have gosuguide, gosucamp and gosuweekly. Reinventing the name would have been nice considering the past but we weighed that against the name recognition already established with the "good" aspects and thought we were better to remain named gosucoaching. Wrong or right that was the thinking process. http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/viewblog.php?id=157376http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/viewblog.php?id=111835http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/viewblog.php?id=109342http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/viewblog.php?id=107110http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/viewblog.php?id=103660Out of lazyness: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/search.php?q=gosucoaching:The forum posts on those to a much lessor extent simply because they are tournaments as well. But then again, that was primarily louder. But hey, you are right, you definitely don't use TL for advertising/personal profit.
I actually say in one of my posts in this thread that too many threads were made on this subject.
Threads on weekly tourneys/showmatches shouldn't get your panties in a bunch though since it is free content.
What exactly is the problem here? I am not being treated like I am not a 20k + poster with tons and tons of events/activities/contributions under his belt to perhaps earn a small dose of leeway?
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On October 02 2010 07:41 {88}iNcontroL wrote:Show nested quote +On October 02 2010 07:18 fnaticAugury wrote:Under new ownership Gosucoaching.com has cut out the middle-man aspect and returned to simplicity. No longer will you pay the site at large and then go through a gauntlet of scheduling to get a session. Instead, Gosucoaching will function as a service to both the coaches and the students. Coaches will be able to advertise themselves on the site for a small fee and students will only have to go to 1 place to shop for someone that is interested/willing to coach. Fees, scheduling and anything else is controlled by the coaches. Gosucoaching will function as a quality control site. If a coach is doing a poor job, skipping sessions, bm etc.. they will be removed. The site will soon implement a rating system so all coaches can be reviewed by their students and viewed by prospective students. You haven't explained how you're going to deal with any issues that come up. You're putting all of the responsibility on the coaches, and not offering any form of protection for the people signing up through coaching on your site. How are you going to protect students from being screwed over like before? A better system is in place, but I don't see how you're proactively attempting to prevent issues from arising. Cutting out the "middle man" is nice, but then what's the point of the business? You should be offering a service that's more reliable/trustworthy than a craigslist listing, but you haven't stated how you're going to do that. If a coach is scamming or w/e we will remove them from the database and out them. That risk has ALWAYS existed we are simply publicizing it which creates a deterrent. no business can offer you 0 risk. The site has a rating system and will remove bad coaches... how is that "full responsibility on the coaches" and even if it was, why is that a bad thing? Students are protected because they aren't paying a site to have something set up for them (middle man) they are paying the coaches for a service. Just like I have done on a daily basis.
Okay, your site isn't providing a service. You're just charging coaches to take advantage of your relationship with TL.
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iNcontroL
USA29055 Posts
you at this point are actually ignoring posts and just trolling. If you'd like to say more please PM me but I don't need this cluttering up the blog as it is. I've answer both those accusations and you just kinda circle around back to them.
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Hyrule19215 Posts
Don't worry inc, they're only trolling here because the rest of the staff have proven them wrong in the Website Feedback thread about this thread (a few of them have since switched to bitching about Day9).
GosuCoaching is awesome, and it definitely gives back to the community. It's not one of those "get to #1 regional ladder in 3 days hurry buy now the pros are suing me to take it down" guides. You're paying for 1 on 1 coaching by a professional. You can't get that kind of service in most places, even in top universities for things like degrees.
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On October 02 2010 04:51 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote:Show nested quote +On October 02 2010 04:24 Jibba wrote:
Hey everybody! Let's stop with the derailment. Have it in a PM, but don't have it here. If something is to be done, it'll be done. Posting more about it won't raise the issue any more than it already has. This is BS, this isn't something they are going to come to terms with through PM. I know BC isn't the only person who gets pissed when you see incontrol shamelessly self promotes himself and his ventures and doesn't get warned or threads closed for it. Every gosucoaching thread he makes annoys me. If he wants to advertise on TL he should buy adds like ANY OTHER person would have to do. I think him even having his signature a direct advertisement is fully stretching the line. The fact he is allowed to just post blogs and threads on this shit is ridiculous.
You must have missed all the posters with under 100 posts who do far worse advertising and have contributed absolutely nothing to this website and are still lingering around and many don't even throw money into the equation like Inc does. You cannot be serious.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/profile.php?user=Maista
86/88 Posts posts about CraftCup
Non Craft Cup posts were under 5 words.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/profile.php?user=Fr4gGie
22/22 Posts about SCV Cup and his stream
And those are only the 2 most recent threads in the tournament forum...
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TL mods and admins already said that it's fine. I don't know why so many people bitching about this when the higher ups said okay.
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iNcontroL
USA29055 Posts
There is a thread in the feedback section for people that want to complain about this blog:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=157400
If it is ok with everyone I'd love this blog to return to those that want to ask me about the reopening of gosucoaching. We had a rocky end last time and there are bound to be concerns / questions.
Or for those that are new to the concept I'd love to describe what we do and what we plan on improving.
If this kind of thing isn't for you please just move along. I completely respect that this isn't for everyone but I am not a scary man in a windowless van. Everyone that has paid me for coaching has done so without me talking them into it.
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Best of luck incontrol!
You're awesome in everything you do, especially state of the game.
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iNcontroL
USA29055 Posts
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Good luck, Geoff and company! Hopefully this time around there's no more drama and everyone can just enjoy the service for what it really is.
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Good luck, and good to see you guys get up and try again.
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I personally wouldn't trust anyone associated with gosucoaching with my money. It seems like you realise you've abused that trust generated by your position within this community, and now are trying to put the entire blame on a single person. I guess maybe you'll redeem yourself by providing a better service this time around..
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iNcontroL
USA29055 Posts
nailed it.
my strategy has been discovered.
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EG = Evil Geniuses!!!!!!!!!!!
Bad guys imo.
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Best of luck, but what ever happened to PhoenixStarcraft?
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iNcontroL
USA29055 Posts
became this basically  No need for multiple sites.
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Fair enough. Probably makes more sense to keep a name around that people are already familiar with, but good luck dealing with all the drama that comes attached to that name, too >.<
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On October 02 2010 12 im a roc wrote:
Fair enough. Probably makes more sense to keep a name around that people are already familiar with, but good luck dealing with all the drama that comes attached to that name, too >.<
It makes very little to no sense from that perspective, it's like naming your company Enron and hope that people would trust you. It's a really strange choice from any kind of angle but hey it's their choice to make, just hope they realise that there is alot of work to be done before people will trust it regardless if they have scapegoat or not. I would wait at least 1 year, if no major debacles happens in that year I might consider it, but even then I would feel like I needed a recommendation.
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What happened to the site when louder was owner?
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EPT
