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Hey y'all,
I know we are all nerds fighting hard to be able to take on other nerds in huge nerd fights and emerge nerdtorious. I am sure that more than a few of you want to be a doctor, nurse, EMT, or other health-care professional and having been an EMT for awhile and now on my way to my M.D., I probably have a few relevant stories you might like to hear. But even for people who have no interest in any of that, the case study is mainly a focus on decision-making and moving past apparent obstacles.
The title is dead-on. Whatever your goal is, medical school for example, well, actually accomplishing that thing is probably the easiest step. Managing to get all the way to where you are at that final step is really the challenge, so I figure you can learn from my unbelievable number of mistakes and poor life decisions. I have nothing to teach per se, but I have done much of the things one can wrong, so I'd like to pretend there is educational value in that.
I'll work my way backwards from where I am now. It is more suspenseful that way. Or so television tells me.
For the last few years I worked my way through undergrad working as an EMT, before starting medical school and being promptly taught that all the things they tell you about medical school are wrong. Medical school is not for the best and the brightest. It is not for the creative problem-solvers. It is not for anyone who LIKES SCIENCE. It's for those of us who are supremely capable at doing mindless work, memorization, paper work, and telling themselves its all going to pay off once we start "helping people."
There is one problem with this; most people help people. Sure most people can't prescribe controlled substances with their signature... but I am pretty sure I've helped more people as an EMT, as a tutor, as a dance teacher, than most of the doctors I've worked with out of medical school less than 5 years, in terms of volume at least. If you are going to tell me it is about 'quality' above 'quantity,' I'm not really smart enough to figure that out.
I graduated ahead of a number friends. Two are at MIT, one is at Harvard, one at Stanford, and the others are already out of debt. I'm at a nameless southern medical school. Woot.
Again though, it is pretty fair. They are brilliant. They find enough satisfaction out of solving, ya know, important problems that affect people. I am too needy not to work with people more directly.
The first thing I figured out after the fact was this: Do what you actually love, not what you think you'll love. I am a damn good med student and will be a damn good M.D, but I could do a dozen other things and help people just as much. My friends who have true satisfaction, contentment, dare I say, happiness didn't worry about what anyone else thought or what they 'should' do. They just fucking did it. Like ballers.
Let that be enough.
Later y'all.
EDIT: Fixed a typo.
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Interesting. Is every med like this in your opinion?
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Wait, what were you thinking of studying in the first place? (since you tell us we should do what we want but you didn't say what you wanted to do before working towards med school ;; )
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There's nothing witty to say, a very insightful post 
I'm just starting College, and I'm 95% sure I want to stick with Computer Science. I think a lot of people think too much about the money they'll be making (granted, being a ditch digger because you like it isn't going to work out in the long run), or have unrealistic goals (wanting to be a professional sports player when they aren't THAT good), instead of focusing on something they can do for the rest of their lives while still feeling happy about it.
My question, like one of the above questions: do you feel this way about ever medical field, or just the MD route? Also if you know, what are the requirements of Nursing compared to EMT work as far as education?
Thank you for your post!
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@ News
Yeah. I have a fair number of contacts with people all over. Now most people don't have my background, but I read between the lines fairly well. You know how you break free and college is about everyone being diverse and their own thing? All medical schools have the dynamics of high school. The post-bac kids are one clique. The M.D./Ph.D's are one, the party-goers, the internationals, the married people, and the odd balls fall through the cracks. It wasn't about intelligence in high school, the SATs and APs just took time, and it's the same game now.
@ emperorchampion
Thanks, I think.
@ Humbug
I was an organic chemist doing natural products research. Before that I was Mathematics and Comp Sci. Before that it was Linguistics. I basically moved study programs because I didn't feel like I would 'help enough' in each successive field. I will delve into this more before too long.
@ Hikko
I was Comp Sci early in school because I worked as a programmer in high school a bit. I got out because I got sick of the mind-numbing drudgery that goes into the coursework. It all is worth it in the end, judging by my friends who graduated in Comp Sci, I just couldn't keep up the grind of CS. I'll dive into that more later. I think you are dead on in your understanding. Be happy, man. Fuck the white noise of the masses, just find something you can be happy with. There are basically no "worse" jobs than others, except those guys who have to slaughter horses. That job sucks.
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Ah, I wish it was longer, I really enjoyed reading it.
A few parts struck me as particularly true, based on my own observations through friends and acquaintances
Medical school is not for the best and the brightest. It is not for the creative problem-solvers. It is not for anyone who LIKES SCIENCE. It's for those of us who are supremely capable at doing mindless work, memorization, paper work, and telling themselves its all going to pay off once we start "helping people."
It's just a challenge based on efforts, not intelligence.
I also really liked this part
The title is dead-on. Whatever your goal is, medical school for example, well, actually accomplishing that thing is probably the easiest step. Managing to get all the way to where you are at that final step is really the challenge .
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Physician
United States4146 Posts
just stay out of sermo when the moment comes and you'll be fine ~
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Thanks for the blog The last paragraph is very reassuring.
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@ Cambium
Thanks Cambium! There is more coming... I just figured people are more inclined to read blurbs. Part 2 will be along in the next 24 hours.
@ Physician
What is 'sermo'?
@ HiddenMotives
Yup. Turns out Mom and Dad were always right.
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Interesting view. I guess it depends a lot on what medical school you go to, and who happens to be in your year. For instance the 2 major universities in my province teach med completely differently. One is more class based book learning the other has you doing real work almost from day 1. From speaking with various people in med school each year of students is quite different as well. Some years will have a lot of the perfect GPA type of people, it's just luck of the draw.
You are right that it's not necessarily for the best and the brightest, in the sense that you need to be one of those to get in. Just with a lot of hard work you can make it without being one of the best and brightest, it probably helps though. But I think the field probably does draw a lot of those best and brightest people.
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@ GogoKodo
I would not consider Canadian schools victim to what I've described. Canadians are less uptight, I find. Canadian schools, by extension, seem to be much better for cultivating intellectual pursuits among the manure-laden fertile grounds of medical students than American ones. It's a different animal. They teach to the same curriculum, and yet, all my Canadian medical school friends are brilliant, dedicated, and capable scientists. Maybe my sample size is too small, but SOMETHING seems different.
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On September 13 2010 10:49 Sleight wrote:
@ GogoKodo
I would not consider Canadian schools victim to what I've described. Canadians are less uptight, I find. Canadian schools, by extension, seem to be much better for cultivating intellectual pursuits among the manure-laden fertile grounds of medical students than American ones. It's a different animal. They teach to the same curriculum, and yet, all my Canadian medical school friends are brilliant, dedicated, and capable scientists. Maybe my sample size is too small, but SOMETHING seems different.
Oh, that's interesting to find out. I don't think I've dealt with anyone from the US in the medical field.
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This was an interesting post.
I'm a medical student in Canada and I agree with a lot of what you say. Medicine is not some magical field where you are able to help everyone and become the savior of mankind (with a few exceptions). Problem-solving amounts to recalling your memorized differential trees. There's usually not enough time to have a nice chat with people without ending up ridiculously behind. The system, at least here, is not made for quality time - it's made for "get to the point, I have 15 more people to see". And we're one of the better systems in the world. I've heard of China's healthcare system where the lines go out the hospital.
Medicine is not hard. I still believe that unless you are a psychopath or mentally retarded, you can become a good, even great, doctor. Especially in this day and age where everything is online. (I marvel at past doctors who actually memorized everything they read in textbooks).
I worked with an MD/PhD and he said something that stuck with me: "Medicine is boring. It's all just protocol."
I may sound like a bitter medical student but I'm just laying out some of my thoughts. I'm actually quite pleased with medicine. I don't mind memorizing stuff and learning about the human body - it's quite a beautiful system. Plus, the great thing is that there's just so many paths you can take in medicine. There's a field for almost anything you're interested in.
It's interesting that you mention the US/Canada divide. In Canada, once you're in med school there's almost 0% chance of failing out. The schools want each student to succeed and do well. There's more an air of collegiality than competition. Once you match to a residency, this trend continues. I hear in the US that there's competition throughout your education - there are yearly tests that weed people out and residencies hire more people than graduation spots. It doesn't sound like a fun environment 
In conclusion, universal healthcare ftw haha.
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On September 13 2010 11:30 Xusneb wrote:This was an interesting post. I'm a medical student in Canada and I agree with a lot of what you say. Medicine is not some magical field where you are able to help everyone and become the savior of mankind (with a few exceptions). Problem-solving amounts to recalling your memorized differential trees. There's usually not enough time to have a nice chat with people without ending up ridiculously behind. The system, at least here, is not made for quality time - it's made for "get to the point, I have 15 more people to see". And we're one of the better systems in the world. I've heard of China's healthcare system where the lines go out the hospital. Medicine is not hard. I still believe that unless you are a psychopath or mentally retarded, you can become a good, even great, doctor. Especially in this day and age where everything is online. (I marvel at past doctors who actually memorized everything they read in textbooks). I worked with an MD/PhD and he said something that stuck with me: "Medicine is boring. It's all just protocol." I may sound like a bitter medical student but I'm just laying out some of my thoughts. I'm actually quite pleased with medicine. I don't mind memorizing stuff and learning about the human body - it's quite a beautiful system. Plus, the great thing is that there's just so many paths you can take in medicine. There's a field for almost anything you're interested in. It's interesting that you mention the US/Canada divide. In Canada, once you're in med school there's almost 0% chance of failing out. The schools want each student to succeed and do well. There's more an air of collegiality than competition. Once you match to a residency, this trend continues. I hear in the US that there's competition throughout your education - there are yearly tests that weed people out and residencies hire more people than graduation spots. It doesn't sound like a fun environment In conclusion, universal healthcare ftw haha.
Re-quoted for truth. Dead on. I am just as happy and just as honest about what's wrong. Medicine in the US is a bitch and cutthroat. People are more concerned with their ego than getting the right answer.
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This type of stuff is really nice to read. I just took my MCATs this past week.
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Come on, seriously?
The bottom line for all careers is not "helping people." It's the $$$, baby.
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On September 13 2010 12:23 SkyLegenD wrote:
Come on, seriously?
The bottom line for all careers is not "helping people." It's the $$$, baby.
if you go into medicine with solely dreams of $$$ you are wasting your time.
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Unfortunately, thats what most people are going for. Maybe some pro bono to feel less guilty.
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CA10828 Posts
On September 13 2010 14:19 Disregard wrote:
Unfortunately, thats what most people are going for. Maybe some pro bono to feel less guilty.
those are usually the ones that burn out after the weeder courses in undergrad. not all of them of course, but many of them do.
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I still know some... They do exist. They are capable of making it to med school. But you know who they are and you know its best not to study with them. Many of them change, or so some M4s told me. Who knows how many make it out unscathed and money-grubbing?
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BS Detector is going off like crazy.
Your English sucks.
Good luck with your "EMT First, Doctor Later Career."
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On September 13 2010 15:21 Number41 wrote:
BS Detector is going off like crazy.
Your English sucks.
Good luck with your "EMT First, Doctor Later Career."
Hahahah. I am so confused. Why is my English poor? And what is wrong with being an EMT? I am confused by this.
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There are easier routes for the money than medicine. [Though it definitely seems to be viewed as a "secure" or reasonable goal for most immigrant cultures.]
Medicine is about problem solving and working with people. If you can't memorize the facts, you have no toolset to work with. Anyway, most American doctors these days aren't the best trained. The lovely legal system has killed the tradition of the capable clinician, who wasn't overly reliant on scans.
"It's interesting that you mention the US/Canada divide. In Canada, once you're in med school there's almost 0% chance of failing out. The schools want each student to succeed and do well. There's more an air of collegiality than competition. Once you match to a residency, this trend continues. I hear in the US that there's competition throughout your education - there are yearly tests that weed people out and residencies hire more people than graduation spots. It doesn't sound like a fun environment "
Forget that. Boards. Any one really want to be a family practictioner?
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On September 13 2010 15:23 Sleight wrote:
Hahahah. I am so confused. Why is my English poor? And what is wrong with being an EMT? I am confused by this.
Your writing is self-serving; and your grammar is average at best. That you don't understand your deficiencies indicates you are not pre-med material. You might be an EMT. But EMT to smarter than dudes at MIT, Harvard and Stanford is a bit of a stretch.
Point out at least 10 simple errors in your writing and I will begin to consider your tall tale.
BTW - Tell your buddy "News" thanks for the very bad manner PM.
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i do have to admit that the writing seems to ramble quite a bit and the argument is often nebulous
however, i dont think grammar is a good litmus for proficiency in english, since this is an online blog and he may have written it quickly and carelessly
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On September 13 2010 17:37 Number41 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 13 2010 15:23 Sleight wrote:
Hahahah. I am so confused. Why is my English poor? And what is wrong with being an EMT? I am confused by this. Your writing is self-serving; and your grammar is average at best. That you don't understand your deficiencies indicates you are not pre-med material. You might be an EMT. But EMT to smarter than dudes at MIT, Harvard and Stanford is a bit of a stretch. Point out at least 10 simple errors in your writing and I will begin to consider your tall tale. BTW - Tell your buddy "News" thanks for the very bad manner PM.
I don't know anything about a PM or who News it. Also... you clearly haven't had any real interaction with the top schools. And I didn't say I was smarter, I said I graduated ahead of them. I then followed it by saying, it is fitting that they are at MIT, for example, because THEY are brilliant. Not me. You want to make this a pissing contest but it isn't. And as someone who clearly does NOT go to one of those schools, I am not particularly concerned that you 'doubt it's even possible.' You pretty clearly never got their yourself. So I've got some bad news for you... they are just schools. Their kids are no smarter than anywhere else. Their opportunities are just better.
Also, grammatically, my writing is fine. There isn't supposed to be a point. It is just my story. You can try to get all bitchy about that kind of thing, but I'm sorry. That's just how my life went.
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On September 13 2010 09:37 Hikko wrote:There's nothing witty to say, a very insightful post I'm just starting College, and I'm 95% sure I want to stick with Computer Science. I think a lot of people think too much about the money they'll be making (granted, being a ditch digger because you like it isn't going to work out in the long run), or have unrealistic goals (wanting to be a professional sports player when they aren't THAT good), instead of focusing on something they can do for the rest of their lives while still feeling happy about it. My question, like one of the above questions: do you feel this way about ever medical field, or just the MD route? Also if you know, what are the requirements of Nursing compared to EMT work as far as education? Thank you for your post!
How can you be so ignorant? You can do anything that you want. You don't even have to work for money. In fact, working for money is the worst way to make money.
You should probably get a mentor if you really want to be happy.
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On September 13 2010 14:12 LosingID8 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 13 2010 12:23 SkyLegenD wrote:
Come on, seriously?
The bottom line for all careers is not "helping people." It's the $$$, baby. if you go into medicine with solely dreams of $$$ you are wasting your time.
The typical rhetoric of "helping the needy" is total bullshit. No one would go through hundreds of thousands of dollars of debt and a huge sacrifice of time in their twenties just so they can "contribute to society." If the pay scale for MDs were not this high, you would see no applications to med schools.
Anyway, I see that you took the MCAT two days ago. How was it?
EDIT: spelling
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On September 14 2010 10:07 SkyLegenD wrote:Show nested quote +On September 13 2010 14:12 LosingID8 wrote:On September 13 2010 12:23 SkyLegenD wrote:
Come on, seriously?
The bottom line for all careers is not "helping people." It's the $$$, baby. if you go into medicine with solely dreams of $$$ you are wasting your time. The typical rhetoric of "helping the needy" is total bullshit. No one would go through hundreds of thousands of dollars of debt and a huge sacrifice of time in their twenties just so they can "contribute to society." If the pay scale for MDs were not this high, you would see no applications to med schools. Anyway, I see that you took the MCAT two days ago. How was it? EDIT: spelling
Woah, Sky, you must be a doctor already. How is it? Do you enjoy the paycheck? Wait... Something tells me you aren't.
So if you actually do the math... almost every graduate school requiring science profession pays off faster than an M.D. IN FACT, up until recently, someone who went to work straight after his bachelor's at the median U.S. salary would have made more money than a doctor until into their early to mid 30s.
I am glad you already know these things, so you can tell us how being a doctor, the least lucrative profession by median salary per year of study when compared to the most popular graduate degrees outsides of the arts is all about the money. Enlighten all of us. Tell us how we only do it for the money that won't get us out of debt until our late 30s to early 40s. Tell us all about it, doc.
I live below the poverty line right now. Actually on less than 10k per year. Do you think that as soon as I get my MD, I can all of sudden prescribe antibiotics for undergraduate and graduate school debt? Will someone come give me a house and a car and all that stuff?
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On September 14 2010 11:11 Sleight wrote:Show nested quote +On September 14 2010 10:07 SkyLegenD wrote:On September 13 2010 14:12 LosingID8 wrote:On September 13 2010 12:23 SkyLegenD wrote:
Come on, seriously?
The bottom line for all careers is not "helping people." It's the $$$, baby. if you go into medicine with solely dreams of $$$ you are wasting your time. The typical rhetoric of "helping the needy" is total bullshit. No one would go through hundreds of thousands of dollars of debt and a huge sacrifice of time in their twenties just so they can "contribute to society." If the pay scale for MDs were not this high, you would see no applications to med schools. Anyway, I see that you took the MCAT two days ago. How was it? EDIT: spelling Woah, Sky, you must be a doctor already. How is it? Do you enjoy the paycheck? Wait... Something tells me you aren't. So if you actually do the math... almost every graduate school requiring science profession pays off faster than an M.D. IN FACT, up until recently, someone who went to work straight after his bachelor's at the median U.S. salary would have made more money than a doctor until into their early to mid 30s. I am glad you already know these things, so you can tell us how being a doctor, the least lucrative profession by median salary per year of study when compared to the most popular graduate degrees outsides of the arts is all about the money. Enlighten all of us. Tell us how we only do it for the money that won't get us out of debt until our late 30s to early 40s. Tell us all about it, doc. I live below the poverty line right now. Actually on less than 10k per year. Do you think that as soon as I get my MD, I can all of sudden prescribe antibiotics for undergraduate and graduate school debt? Will someone come give me a house and a car and all that stuff?
Oh my god. a medical student is going to be in debt until his or her "late 30s to early 40s." I never knew the US life expectancy rate was only that long. And I certainly didn't know that a person could not enjoy his life until he is debt-free.
http://www.cnbc.com/id/37151785http://www.cnbc.com/id/37151785
Outside of health care, the only job that cracked the top ten was chief executive, with an average salary of $167,280 last year.
Tell me where you got your source as "the least lucrative profession by median salary per year of study"
You're living on less than 10K per year. Boo hoo. As soon as you finish medical school and residency you'll be making a minimum of 175K, just as a general practitioner. No one is saying you are entitled to a Porsche and a mansion in a wealthy New York suburb. However, the doctor is one of the safest and most secure jobs anyone can have; you be able to pay your debt off, raise a family (if that's what you desire) and live the good life. This is obviously quite a waste of time for me to tell you all this.
And let's do some simple math: Let's just say a first-year science profession pays 100K (highly unlikely in today's economy). He graduated at 25 and earns 1 Mil by 35.
The poor, "I wanna be a doctor to serve humanity" medical student just finished his specialist as... let's say a dermatologist at 35. He starts off with $0, but will earn a median salary of 237K per year.
And let's say the science profession graduate student had his salary rise to 137K, just to make it fair to do the math (again, that's an enormous pay increase).
The MD will equal his earnings around 10 years, and double it around 20. He will be 55. The average male life expectancy rate is 78. Wow.
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You do realize that the average med student enters with over 60K in debt already... and that he will accrue an additional 200K by the end of his 4 years?
Do you understand what the interest on 250K+ is? You realize that you end up having to pay twice that off even if you live alone like a pauper and bust your ass throwing all your extra money into it.
So knock off half a million, to be fair. Do you math again. So all of a sudden you are looking at an extra 4-5 years to equal both professions, if the guy is in derm. How about if he a general practitioner? Try that math again, son. See what happens. What if you do any time volunteering or working at lower than average salary for any kind of equal access program?
What good is all the money in the world at age 65? You are retire then. You don't work until you are 78. Congrats you will make almost 2.5 million over your life. Hope you don't mind that most of that accessible income is in your last 20-30 years when you will be struggling to keep an erection and then later to remember if you put your pants on the right way. Meanwhile, the comparable science grad has been debt free within 2-4 years of graduation, has always worked fewer hours, and has his income distributed evenly across his life span.
You clearly failed pretty hard and getting into medicine and are now convinced it is only for money grubbers. Don't worry. I'll be burning the little money I have for warmth just so people like you suffer in psychic agony that we don't actually give a shit about it.
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thank god I lost sight of that dream a long time ago.
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Med school in Australia costs 8k a year and we pay interest at CPI only after we graduate. I dunno if I'd be planning to pursue medicine if I lived in the states, seems far too expensive :s. Is much of this "$200k" that you mention derived from living expenses, or do schools really charge over 40k a year in the US? Also, do you get paid for your internships in the US?
@ Med for money argument; it's absurd. Dentistry is less competitive with better pay all through your career. If you only want money, it's clearly the optimal health profession to practice. I know many people who choose to pursue medicine for the prestige, and I guess that is an understandable advantage over dentistry, but really does reflect incredible vanity in an individual.
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Wow i go to medical school and i LOVE IT!
I find the material really engaging and stimulating and its taught in a way that the memorising helps to further your understanding of many concepts (although can be mundane at times). I also have clinical sessions and those are even more awesome!
Yeah i guess since im only 50k in debt when i graduate (no interest btw) and will more than make that back first year working its good not to have that as a stressor.
Maybe everyone is different, i wanted to be a surgeon longer than i can remember and now that i am actually working towards a foreseeable goal rather than a dream i couldn't be happier.
Hope you get your stuff sorted out.
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On September 14 2010 13:10 Sleight wrote:
You do realize that the average med student enters with over 60K in debt already... and that he will accrue an additional 200K by the end of his 4 years?
Do you understand what the interest on 250K+ is? You realize that you end up having to pay twice that off even if you live alone like a pauper and bust your ass throwing all your extra money into it.
So knock off half a million, to be fair. Do you math again. So all of a sudden you are looking at an extra 4-5 years to equal both professions, if the guy is in derm. How about if he a general practitioner? Try that math again, son. See what happens. What if you do any time volunteering or working at lower than average salary for any kind of equal access program?
What good is all the money in the world at age 65? You are retire then. You don't work until you are 78. Congrats you will make almost 2.5 million over your life. Hope you don't mind that most of that accessible income is in your last 20-30 years when you will be struggling to keep an erection and then later to remember if you put your pants on the right way. Meanwhile, the comparable science grad has been debt free within 2-4 years of graduation, has always worked fewer hours, and has his income distributed evenly across his life span.
You clearly failed pretty hard and getting into medicine and are now convinced it is only for money grubbers. Don't worry. I'll be burning the little money I have for warmth just so people like you suffer in psychic agony that we don't actually give a shit about it. It was late 30s early 40s to pay off the debt, and now you changed the age to 65. Congratulations on disrupting your own data to prove your useless point.
And your statement that a medical student will graduate with 250K in debt just shows no one in their right mind would practice medicine solely because he wants to help the needy. There are so many other careers out there that will promise the same thing. Oh wait, those salaries are only a fifth of what a doctor earns. No wonder you didn't pick those.
And the assumption you make that I "clearly failed pretty hard and getting into medicine (what kind of bull grammar is this? I have great doubts that you are not a med student )" proves you can't come up with a good defense for why doctors don't do it for the money. Keep throwing those ad hominems around while every decently intellect on TL laughs behind his computer screen in your failed argument.
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CA10828 Posts
On September 14 2010 20:13 SkyLegenD wrote:Show nested quote +On September 14 2010 13:10 Sleight wrote:
You do realize that the average med student enters with over 60K in debt already... and that he will accrue an additional 200K by the end of his 4 years?
Do you understand what the interest on 250K+ is? You realize that you end up having to pay twice that off even if you live alone like a pauper and bust your ass throwing all your extra money into it.
So knock off half a million, to be fair. Do you math again. So all of a sudden you are looking at an extra 4-5 years to equal both professions, if the guy is in derm. How about if he a general practitioner? Try that math again, son. See what happens. What if you do any time volunteering or working at lower than average salary for any kind of equal access program?
What good is all the money in the world at age 65? You are retire then. You don't work until you are 78. Congrats you will make almost 2.5 million over your life. Hope you don't mind that most of that accessible income is in your last 20-30 years when you will be struggling to keep an erection and then later to remember if you put your pants on the right way. Meanwhile, the comparable science grad has been debt free within 2-4 years of graduation, has always worked fewer hours, and has his income distributed evenly across his life span.
You clearly failed pretty hard and getting into medicine and are now convinced it is only for money grubbers. Don't worry. I'll be burning the little money I have for warmth just so people like you suffer in psychic agony that we don't actually give a shit about it. It was late 30s early 40s to pay off the debt, and now you changed the age to 65. Congratulations on disrupting your own data to prove your useless point. And your statement that a medical student will graduate with 250K in debt just shows no one in their right mind would practice medicine solely because he wants to help the needy. There are so many other careers out there that will promise the same thing. Oh wait, those salaries are only a fifth of what a doctor earns. No wonder you didn't pick those. And the assumption you make that I "clearly failed pretty hard and getting into medicine (what kind of bull grammar is this? I have great doubts that you are not a med student )" proves you can't come up with a good defense for why doctors don't do it for the money. Keep throwing those ad hominems around while every decently intellect on TL laughs behind his computer screen in your failed argument.
if you start to factor in that an average doctor works around 60 hours a week the pay doesn't sound nearly as attractive. actually 60 hours a week isn't anywhere near as bad as the residency hours, which are set at an average of 80 hours a week (and you only get paid 40-60k/year). furthermore, many many doctors will make less than 200k. family physicians, etc all make around 100-150k on average. the ones that get paid more? well first they lose about 1/3 of their income to taxes, and then don't forget that malpractice insurance that takes away another huge chunk of their income. all that stuff on top of loan debt plus the amount of schooling/training required is why i'm saying people that go into medicine for solely financial reasons are in the minority. yeah sure every doctor believes that they should be fairly compensated for their training/work. but the ones who are ONLY in it for the $$? they probably don't really exist... they would have gone the business route if they just wanted money.
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CA10828 Posts
oh and the mcat was terrible lol. but i won't know my score for about a month or so...
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CA10828 Posts
On September 14 2010 15:46 Lurgee wrote:
Med school in Australia costs 8k a year and we pay interest at CPI only after we graduate. I dunno if I'd be planning to pursue medicine if I lived in the states, seems far too expensive :s. Is much of this "$200k" that you mention derived from living expenses, or do schools really charge over 40k a year in the US? Also, do you get paid for your internships in the US?
@ Med for money argument; it's absurd. Dentistry is less competitive with better pay all through your career. If you only want money, it's clearly the optimal health profession to practice. I know many people who choose to pursue medicine for the prestige, and I guess that is an understandable advantage over dentistry, but really does reflect incredible vanity in an individual.
US med schools really do cost around 40-50k per year for just tuition... add in the cost of living and you get a ton of debt lol
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I'm at the fifth year of medical school and very happy with it. Hopefully going to start a residency in anesthesiology right after graduating. Sorry to hear that it's not working too well for you.. from reading this thread one might think that a lot of med students aren't happy with their choice, but that's the minority..
Anyway, as someone already mentioned in this thread there are just so many areas in medicine, it's hard not to find something you like.. if you want science, you can dedicate yourself to research, if you want to fix people, be a surgeon, if you find out that you actually hate people, be a pathologist or radiologist..
However, I don't think I would like it this much if I lived in the US.. it's too expensive, and there's the competitiveness between colleagues, and you have to cover your ass from every angle to not get sued..
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EPT
