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You're not paying attention.
You're spending on 5 queens and 2 spines. That's 1050 minerals and 2 drones that won't be mining any more.Your lair is also apparently ass-late with 5 fucking queens. And this just to stay alive. In the mean-time I'm making an expo and 750 minerals worth of drones, while my mutas are taking a piss on your 12 roach attack-ball. And as I mentioned in my post I'll using overseer+muta to stop you from expanding creep, you won't have any hope of getting an expo, ever.
As for my rank, you never stated or proved your own rank so to me, you're a mid bronze player until otherwise is proven. And as I said I'm still in the process of finding my rank as I gained 200+ points over the last 2 days, but at the end of the day overall ladder rank has nothing to do with ZvZ skill.
And what's up with the attempted personal attacks? Argue your case and if you're right you'll convince me and others that your strategy is better.
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I'm sorry it's hard to argue with you when you don't have a clue what you're talking about. You're arguing against every known fact of theory.
http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/76617-1v1-zerg-xelnaga-caverns
http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/76619-1v1-zerg-blistering-sands
2 Replays of the post-baneling timing attack. The same attack holds true for non-baneling. I will have scouted your lack of a baneling nest, I will have scouted your early lair, I will have put up an evo for spores, and I will proceed to punish your ling army with roaches.
I don't understand why you think this doesn't pay out. If I have 3 spores and two queens at each base, that's approx 1300 minerals and your mutas are totally negated. Your 1200/1200 clump of mutas.
And that's if you survive my counter push, which, trust me, I will counter push, and it will win the game outright.
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Replay 1:
Chaos goes early ling speed, early baneling nest, makes 6 banelings and rams them into your roaches. Then doesn't start his lair before he's at 250 gas and 700+ minerals. He hasn't droned properly because he was too busy making banelings, and thus doesn't have his second gas either. Then proceeds to make a roach warren, your ramp is completely open at this point and a run-by with some spines in his main would have won him the game. You transition into being a smart-ass, and it was pretty obvious that your opponent had no clear plan on how to beat your roaches, as he said he had limited experience as zerg and was just fumbling in the dark.
Replay 2:
You both 10 overlord, all of your opionions are void. Your opponent then does nothing with his 3 larvae and 150+ minerals for a good 20 seconds, then decides to make an overlord and 2 drones with them. At 11 supply. Oh and he doesn't know the hatchery has 2 rally-points. And again with the baneling nest. 5 minutes in he scouts you for the first time and sees a roach. He attacks your ramp and gives you a free run-by with his 4 lings. Doesn't lair until he has 250 gas either.
These replay just makes me suspect even more that you are a mid-level bronze player just trolling. Are you even trying?
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On September 10 2010 05:01 Adeny wrote:
Replay 1:
Chaos goes early ling speed, early baneling nest, makes 6 banelings and rams them into your roaches. Then doesn't start his lair before he's at 250 gas and 700+ minerals. He hasn't droned properly because he was too busy making banelings, and thus doesn't have his second gas either. Then proceeds to make a roach warren, your ramp is completely open at this point and a run-by with some spines in his main would have won him the game. You transition into being a smart-ass, and it was pretty obvious that your opponent had no clear plan on how to beat your roaches, as he said he had limited experience as zerg and was just fumbling in the dark.
Replay 2:
You both 10 overlord, all of your opionions are void. Your opponent then does nothing with his 3 larvae and 150+ minerals for a good 20 seconds, then decides to make an overlord and 2 drones with them. At 11 supply. Oh and he doesn't know the hatchery has 2 rally-points. And again with the baneling nest. 5 minutes in he scouts you for the first time and sees a roach. He attacks your ramp and gives you a free run-by with his 4 lings. Doesn't lair until he has 250 gas either.
These replay just makes me suspect even more that you are a mid-level bronze player just trolling. Are you even trying?
Mekhami.998. ~1200 diamond. When you want to 1v1 and get raped let me know, stop talking shit until you back up anything you can say.
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On September 10 2010 05:06 Eiserne wrote:Show nested quote +On September 10 2010 05:01 Adeny wrote:
Replay 1:
Chaos goes early ling speed, early baneling nest, makes 6 banelings and rams them into your roaches. Then doesn't start his lair before he's at 250 gas and 700+ minerals. He hasn't droned properly because he was too busy making banelings, and thus doesn't have his second gas either. Then proceeds to make a roach warren, your ramp is completely open at this point and a run-by with some spines in his main would have won him the game. You transition into being a smart-ass, and it was pretty obvious that your opponent had no clear plan on how to beat your roaches, as he said he had limited experience as zerg and was just fumbling in the dark.
Replay 2:
You both 10 overlord, all of your opionions are void. Your opponent then does nothing with his 3 larvae and 150+ minerals for a good 20 seconds, then decides to make an overlord and 2 drones with them. At 11 supply. Oh and he doesn't know the hatchery has 2 rally-points. And again with the baneling nest. 5 minutes in he scouts you for the first time and sees a roach. He attacks your ramp and gives you a free run-by with his 4 lings. Doesn't lair until he has 250 gas either.
These replay just makes me suspect even more that you are a mid-level bronze player just trolling. Are you even trying? Mekhami.998. ~1200 diamond. When you want to 1v1 and get raped let me know, stop talking shit until you back up anything you can say.
We're done here dude, your replays lost you all credibility because I could also show you replays of me playing custom games vs. my bronze level friends, and on top of that be a smart-ass in said replays.
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On September 10 2010 05:21 Adeny wrote:Show nested quote +On September 10 2010 05:06 Eiserne wrote:On September 10 2010 05:01 Adeny wrote:
Replay 1:
Chaos goes early ling speed, early baneling nest, makes 6 banelings and rams them into your roaches. Then doesn't start his lair before he's at 250 gas and 700+ minerals. He hasn't droned properly because he was too busy making banelings, and thus doesn't have his second gas either. Then proceeds to make a roach warren, your ramp is completely open at this point and a run-by with some spines in his main would have won him the game. You transition into being a smart-ass, and it was pretty obvious that your opponent had no clear plan on how to beat your roaches, as he said he had limited experience as zerg and was just fumbling in the dark.
Replay 2:
You both 10 overlord, all of your opionions are void. Your opponent then does nothing with his 3 larvae and 150+ minerals for a good 20 seconds, then decides to make an overlord and 2 drones with them. At 11 supply. Oh and he doesn't know the hatchery has 2 rally-points. And again with the baneling nest. 5 minutes in he scouts you for the first time and sees a roach. He attacks your ramp and gives you a free run-by with his 4 lings. Doesn't lair until he has 250 gas either.
These replay just makes me suspect even more that you are a mid-level bronze player just trolling. Are you even trying? Mekhami.998. ~1200 diamond. When you want to 1v1 and get raped let me know, stop talking shit until you back up anything you can say. We're done here dude, your replays lost you all credibility because I could also show you replays of me playing custom games vs. my bronze level friends, and on top of that be a smart-ass in said replays.
Of course we're done. You're a chicken shit. You don't know what you're talking about and have zero ability to back it up.
You're the worst kind of chicken shit.
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Yeah except you can see I'm from Europe and know we're not going to be playing. Now stop the name-calling, you're way out of line. I'm going to go ahead and continue this discussion on topic, you're free to join in.
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On September 10 2010 05:38 Adeny wrote:
Yeah except you can see I'm from Europe and know we're not going to be playing. Now stop the name-calling, you're way out of line. I'm going to go ahead and continue this discussion on topic, you're free to join in.
Right, take the high and mighty road and decry my 'name-calling waaaaaaaaaah' while you call me a bronze level player.
We both know it's simple to find a friend with an NA account, or for me to find a friend with an EU account, and settle this like men. The difference though, is that you're a childish internet boy, with no sense or dignity.
Sounds great. I don't need to prove anything to you. Continue to play at the 800 level. Need I remind you that 800 is STILL D-/D iccup? You talk a big talk for such a low-skilled player.
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So let me get this straight, 800 is D- and 1100 is progamer level and you trump everyone elses statements automatically. I'm not "auto-right" (as I think you called it), however you, with your 1100 rating, you're clearly auto-right in any situation ever. Now if someone wants to contest my original strategy I'm willing to discuss it in a civilized manner. However posting replays of your roaches beating someones banelings (someone who by the way sits at around 470 points since that matters so much to you). I'm trying to help a guy out here, back off. It's nothing personal.
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On September 10 2010 06:05 Adeny wrote:
So let me get this straight, 800 is D- and 1100 is progamer level and you trump everyone elses statements automatically. I'm not "auto-right" (as I think you called it), however you, with your 1100 rating, you're clearly auto-right in any situation ever. Now if someone wants to contest my original strategy I'm willing to discuss it in a civilized manner. However posting replays of your roaches beating someones banelings (someone who by the way sits at around 470 points since that matters so much to you). I'm trying to help a guy out here, back off. It's nothing personal.
You're not trying to help anybody out, you're wildly misinforming a new Zerg player.
Saracen and I have arranged to play matches because he believes Ling Baneling can beat roach. If he's right, I'll adjust my play, find a more solid opening, and come back with a better roach build that does not fall. I'll learn the timings of his build, figure out what I'm scouting for, use my larva more specifically and accurately, and defeat his ling/baneling strategy the next time around.
All you can say is 'No dude, runbys. No dude.'
You're wrong. A smart player is prepared for run bys. I can split my roach force in half, one half will demolish your lol mass speedlings, and the other half will block my ramp. You will try a runby and lose many lings. I will then push out, take my expansion, while i'm raping your main because you put too much faith in -static- defense. I will take every small advantage I get, whether it's sniping your queen or sniping a gas or a few drones or a spawning pool, or just simply keeping pressure on you so you have no way of moving out. Then, depending on what tech I see since I'm trouncing all over your base, I'll counter it, use strong 2 base economy to overwhelm you until you rage quit because you can't conceptualize in your tiny little brain how you could possibly be wrong.
You're wrong. Period. If you want to prove otherwise, try to do so. Until then, stop arguing with your betters.
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You were first to challenge my statement, so I'm not wrong, until you prove otherwise. You realized this and posted 2 replays which were very unrelated, where you beat inexperienced zergs (who even mentioned they were inxeperienced), by going roach all-in with 15 drones. I objectively analyzed your games and I see no relation to what your opponents are doing as to what I'm suggesting, so those are out of the picture. So you're left with your blank claims which are just as good as mine. I made my statement and have feel I have nothing to prove, if OP wants to try the strategies I suggested, great, maybe he can make them work for him like I have. Now if you'll excuse me I've wasted way too many calories typing nothing of substance, so good night. Oh and here's a tip, 9 overlord has been proven to be better than 10 overlord in every way, shape or form. Maybe even your highness has learned something from all this.
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On September 10 2010 06:27 Adeny wrote:
You were first to challenge my statement, so I'm not wrong, until you prove otherwise. You realized this and posted 2 replays which were very unrelated, where you beat inexperienced zergs (who even mentioned they were inxeperienced), by going roach all-in with 15 drones. I objectively analyzed your games and I see no relation to what your opponents are doing as to what I'm suggesting, so those are out of the picture. So you're left with your blank claims which are just as good as mine. I made my statement and have feel I have nothing to prove, if OP wants to try the strategies I suggested, great, maybe he can make them work for him like I have. Now if you'll excuse me I've wasted way too many calories typing nothing of substance, so good night. Oh and here's a tip, 9 overlord has been proven to be better than 10 overlord in every way, shape or form. Maybe even your highness has learned something from all this.
At least you admit you typed nothing of substance.
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You have a bad case of selective reading disorder. Take a look at this replay: http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/76225-1v1-zerg-metalopolis
Found it in a different thread. Lunacy plays this one as I suggested for the most part, what do you think of it? What errors did Won make? Now, in this case it ended with the mutas but let's pretend it didn't. Won hasn't even started his lair yet, so blue is free to expo and drone as much as he desires, while Won has to be making queens and/or spores, as well as a lair and hydralisks before he can do anything at all. Because as I'm sure you'll agree on, lings/spines/muta beat a roach attack.
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Hydra infestor midgame (following a transition out of mutas, or directly into hydras if you were late on the spire) IMO makes any roach/baneling/muta etc composition obsolete. Hydras outdps roaches and their fragility is mitigated by the fact that probably only half of the roach ball will get to attack due to fungal. Banelings die to fungal without any additional work needed. Zerglings clump so hard that I've lost over 50 lings to 2 fungal growths...it hurts. No matter how you open, IMO you need to be heading toward hydra infestor (and eventually ultras).
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On September 10 2010 09:11 sooch wrote:
Hydra infestor midgame (following a transition out of mutas, or directly into hydras if you were late on the spire) IMO makes any roach/baneling/muta etc composition obsolete. Hydras outdps roaches and their fragility is mitigated by the fact that probably only half of the roach ball will get to attack due to fungal. Banelings die to fungal without any additional work needed. Zerglings clump so hard that I've lost over 50 lings to 2 fungal growths...it hurts. No matter how you open, IMO you need to be heading toward hydra infestor (and eventually ultras).
The problem with this is a muta/ling-ing player will already have enough lings to lay the hurt on them hydras, before infestors are good to go, seeing as infestors cost about a million gas.
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Infestation pit comes up very quickly, is half the resources of spire, and infestors in terms of cost-effectiveness per unit of gas absolutely rock mutas. I used to be of the same thinking before I got infestor'd...you can't split your lings and banelings enough to avoid getting the majority of them fungal'd. I can't see the infestor hydra player NOT having the energy to defend a muta ling player by the time they decide to stop harassing and attempt a push in...especially since mutaling tends to expand across the map once they see the other player going hydra and relinquishing air control.
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I see what you mean, but the reason I didn't mention it in my little write-up was because I have very little experience against it from just laddering. As such I'm not trying to tell you that you're wrong, but I think there should be enough time between the infestors spawning (which you'll scout with mutas if you're persistent with your harass), and them having enough energy. What do you have in the meantime, what's your lead-up to infestors? A defensive ling/bling might make sense, as the mutaing players only weapon against hydras are ling/bling.
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On September 10 2010 02:04 CharlieMurphy wrote:
it's because zvz is the most dynamic matchup. you need to rely on scouting and adapt your build constantly. I never do the same thing twice in a zvz game (unless they are always doing the same build- which happens on ladder), I only have counter builds for what the enemy does.
enemy ---- you
6-8pool -- pool down asap 12-14 should suffice
10pool -- 13pool
13pool --- 15pool
15pool --- depending on positions either FE or 16-17pool
lings/blings --- roach wall
roaches --- expand
fast muta --- roach timing attack/expand spores
etc
etc
I do the same as this. Aootugh since i dont like the mu i just go with 12 gas -> pool -> bling nest and then adapt accordingly. Is hard to not do ANY dame with the blings and specially if your opponent overreacts youll get a great start.
Also to note HydraRoach>Roach once the armies get big enough. This is because all his army will be able to attack you and youll have some roaches just wandering around.
Also on "higher" levels is important to master the ability to burrow-unburrow roaches (obs with the hp regen upgrade) this can make your army last almost twice as long.
Also ALWAYS get an overseer. Try to contaminate whenever possible.
Also Hydra>Muta but only after you get 10+ control group. If you are being countered with blings burrow your hidras once they get near so your roaches kills them and then unburrow hidras to keep attacking the mutalisk. Dont worry too much about the mutas attacking the roaches because roach can handle that pretty well.
Also if you get a lead and your opponent is going for mutas you can just 1a into his lair and probably destroy it before any mutalisk gets out. An even if they are out you can still prolly kill it.
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This is a week or two old now, but did the games between Saracen and Eiserne ever happen?
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On September 22 2010 14:03 Aubergine wrote:
This is a week or two old now, but did the games between Saracen and Eiserne ever happen?
Yeah, I want to know as well. Replays?
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EPT
