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green.at
Austria1459 Posts
On September 08 2010 06:47 cz wrote: lol how did you get neo-nazi out of that, then conclude with "world would be better without them" well, i just see a similarity in your and their way to argue. not saying your are a nazi, just as "smart". and yeah, i think the world would be better without racists, what is your problem with that? | ||
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cz
United States3249 Posts
On September 08 2010 06:50 Jibba wrote: Intimidation supersedes freedom of speech, just as I don't have the right to call your house and threaten to kill you. I don't know if there's any state legislature regarding that kind of intimidation but I'm sure it'd go through a civil court. If you think burning a bunch of books constitutes illegal intimidation you have a terrible understanding of the law or this country's laws are badly messed up. | ||
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cz
United States3249 Posts
On September 08 2010 06:51 green.at wrote: well, i just see a similarity in your and their way to argue. not saying your are a nazi, just as "smart". and yeah, i think the world would be better without racists, what is your problem with that? The Nazis weren't trying to make a point about freedom of speech with respect to a violent group (my position on why I'd partially like to see the burning happen). And the "world would be better without X group" was mentioned because that IS very Nazi. | ||
Jibba
United States22883 Posts
On September 08 2010 06:52 cz wrote: If you think burning a bunch of books constitutes illegal intimidation you have a terrible understanding of the law or this country's laws are badly messed up. The Supreme Court has ruled that cross burning may fall under intimidation laws. I fail to see how religious book burning is any different. Maybe you should find a new country. | ||
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cz
United States3249 Posts
On September 08 2010 06:54 Jibba wrote: The Supreme Court has ruled that cross burning may fall under intimidation laws. I fail to see how religious book burning is any different. Maybe you should find a new country. This is not cross burning. Cross burning "may" fall under intimidation (it won't, except in specific circumstances like burning it on a black person's lawn) doesn't have anything to do with this. There is no way that burning books on your own property, not physically directed at anyone, can be construed as intimidation, nor should it be. If you think that this should be in any way illegal than you are sadly not a proponent of basic freedoms, and this is coming form a person who votes left wing. You do realize that people can legally say that Muslims are aggressive and all should be immediately deported without it being illegal, right? The book burning is a meta version of that. I mean that's just the basics of freedom of speech: unpopular speech is legal. The burning, or even saying "Islam is horrible and caused 9/11, all Muslims should be deported" does not constitute any of the exceptions to freedom of speech such as a direct threat or slander. | ||
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Saturnize
United States2473 Posts
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Jibba
United States22883 Posts
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cz
United States3249 Posts
On September 08 2010 06:59 Jibba wrote: Burning an object on another person's property is a wholly separate crime from intimidation. If I were a muslim in Gaineville, I would see it as an act of intimidation. The courts won't. Just living in the same city as someone doesn't mean you are now allowed to control everyones actions and/or opinions. Again, a person who directly said that he hates all Muslims and all Muslims should be deported for causing 9/11 is legally entitled to that speech. If you support freedom of speech you have to support it for unpopular opinions that you disagree with. | ||
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SubtleArt
2710 Posts
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Jibba
United States22883 Posts
On September 08 2010 06:58 Saturnize wrote: Where did you receive your JD from?I agree with CZ. As long as this act is on their own persons property I fail to see how it falls under intimidation. | ||
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Fontong
United States6454 Posts
Fucking stupid if you ask me | ||
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cz
United States3249 Posts
On September 08 2010 07:01 SubtleArt wrote: You can throw in all the legal jargon and constitutional technicalities you want, I still don't see why anybody would even want to do something this primitive and idiotic. There are a bunch of separate arguments going on here. 1) Should these people burn the Qu'Rans 2) Do these people have a legal right to 3) Should these people have a legal right to. I'm surprised and concerned that people think #2 may be false (lack of understanding of laws), but really concerned that some people are suggesting that it should be illegal because some people in the city might get their feelings hurt. Freedom of speech is supposed to protect unpopular opinions, and if you support it you have to support the legality of those opinions. You can disagree entirely about whether they should be said, but whether they should be legal or not is a different question of government and social principle. | ||
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BlackJack
United States10574 Posts
On September 08 2010 06:37 green.at wrote: no wonder, i remember blackjack for racist comments and such. best jump in the fire with all the quran burners and all the haters from other countries. idiots... but yeah killing the other one before he can kill you is the most important thing in life. i am ashamed that you are allowed here -.- Racist comments? Are you referring to my reply in this thread http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/viewblog.php?topic_id=150653 Which was very obviously a joke and not even a joke by me. I pulled it directly from South Park or Family Guy or some other show, but I guess they have the cred to get away with it since people don't have a sense of humor unless they are watching cartoons. Maybe you should actually read my posts in threads that matter, for example in the Ground Zero mosque thread and the Israeli soldiers shoots girl thread and you will see that I stood behind muslims in both threads, so to assume I have some kind of bias against muslims is ignorance. As a mater of a fact my grandfather was Syrian which means me 1/4 Syrian. So let's see. I support the Muslims right to build a mosque at Ground Zero and I support some people's rights to burn some books. I would call that being consistent with supporting constitutional liberties. I would also call that being consistent with disliking overlysensitive people that will take to the streets and protest stupid things. I guess you would call that being prejudice? | ||
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Jibba
United States22883 Posts
On September 08 2010 07:00 cz wrote: The courts won't. Just living in the same city as someone doesn't mean you are now allowed to control everyones actions and/or opinions. Again, a person who directly said that he hates all Muslims and all Muslims should be deported for causing 9/11 is legally entitled to that speech. If you support freedom of speech you have to support it for unpopular opinions that you disagree with. Are you even aware of the many limitations placed on freedom of speech? I get the feeling that you aren't, and you fall under the group of people I mentioned in my first post here. If there is a civil case, how it would be construed has yet to be seen. I don't think there's any Florida law prohibiting burnings, but it really isn't that farfetched to find damages from this. If it were in Virginia or another state with an intimidation/burning law, then at least the case would make it to trial. | ||
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cz
United States3249 Posts
On September 08 2010 07:05 Jibba wrote: Are you even aware of the many limitations placed on freedom of speech? I get the feeling that you aren't, and you fall under the group of people I mentioned in my first post here. If there is a civil case, how it would be construed has yet to be seen. I don't think there's any Florida law prohibiting burnings, but it really isn't that farfetched to find damages from this. Quick question: Do you believe that these book burnings should be illegal, if done in the spirit of hating Islam and blaming Muslims for 9/11 and nothing more? I'm not asking about "is illegal," I'm asking about your opinion on "should." Should criticism (even extreme) or hatred of a religion or group of people be illegal, in your opinion? | ||
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Saturnize
United States2473 Posts
On September 08 2010 07:02 Jibba wrote: Where did you receive your JD from? What is a JD? Anyways, I don't see why this topic is all about how the law should be dealt with instead of about how deplorable the actions of the people are. While I think they are kind of douche bags I still think that they should be able to do what they want on their own property. | ||
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Asdkmoga
United States496 Posts
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NukeTheBunnys
United States1004 Posts
On September 08 2010 07:00 cz wrote: The courts won't. Just living in the same city as someone doesn't mean you are now allowed to control everyones actions and/or opinions. Again, a person who directly said that he hates all Muslims and all Muslims should be deported for causing 9/11 is legally entitled to that speech. If you support freedom of speech you have to support it for unpopular opinions that you disagree with. First, thats for the courts to decide, not any of us. And second, there is a big difference between supporting some ones right to free speech and supporting what they are saying. Going and burning shit with them, that is supporting what they are saying. I can't speak for anyone else, but if I was a muslim anywhere in the US I would feel pretty intimidated, just like I would feel intimidated by the reactions that are happening in the middle east if I was there. I don't support this, and I'm not even religious, but I'm white, and with people burning American flags, and protesting in the street, I wouldn't feel safe. And in all honesty, does anyone buy this is to commemorate 9/11. The sole reason for this clearly is to demonstrate hatred for a group of people and intimidate them | ||
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cz
United States3249 Posts
Law degree | ||
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Turkagent
United States8 Posts
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