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On September 08 2010 10:36 Antoine wrote:
Personally I find it ironic that a lot of the people supporting this burning as a first amendment right are the same ones who are opposed to the muslim community center 2 blocks from the twin towers' former site.
Very good point.
I have to add, does burning Qu'rans have anything to do with 9/11? Some people are actually dumb enough to support that? Are you guys a bit slow?
Burning Qu'rans, fine if wasting your time and money is something you like to do. It's a worthless hunk of paper filled with violence and other horrors.
Burning Bibles, fine - I usually just desecrate the free bible in a hotel room. It's a larger worthless hunk of paper, which is also filled with violence and other horrors. (Murder/Rape/Slavery/Racism/Sexism,etc.)
Burning Qu'rans because of 9/11?
How about burning Bibles on May 31st when George Tiller was murdered by a Christian? How about April 19th, for the Oklahoma city bombing. I can afford a couple of Bibles a year if I need to. You christians sure deserve it! (Sarcasm, btw)
What's that, what are you saying? It's different? Now is it?...
It's frustrating because many of you will never understand why this is a ridiculous idea. I know some people have a lot of fun burning books but you're wasting your time. At least you're not destroying knowledge like our ancestors did. Good ole' book burning. So freaking sad.
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"world would be better without X group" was mentioned because that IS very Nazi.
The world would be a better place without murders.
The world would be a better place without drug lords.
The world would be a better place without rapists
OH MY GOD IM A NAZI.
Talk about reductio ad hitlerum.
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On September 08 2010 14:33 Half wrote:Show nested quote +"world would be better without X group" was mentioned because that IS very Nazi. The world would be a better place without drug lords.
Maybe, but it probably would be even better WITH "drug lords" if we removed anti-drug laws. =D
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I want to be part of the murder group! (sorry parallelism)
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The fact that a church is doing this really blows me away. What happened to forgiveness and tolerance?
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Maybe, but it probably would be even better WITH "drug lords" if we removed anti-drug laws. =D
I'm probably going to go ot right now, but trust me, you do not want multi-billion dollar pharma-chem companies with a monopoly on pot and crack. You'll prefer drug lords in the long run.
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On September 08 2010 10:36 Antoine wrote:
Personally I find it ironic that a lot of the people supporting this burning as a first amendment right are the same ones who are opposed to the muslim community center 2 blocks from the twin towers' former site.
I also find it pretty hilarious. Every time you think you've seen the height of ignorance someone always manages to top it.
People burning the Quran are no better than the extremists they are trying to protest against. They would be better off reading it and trying to learn more about the religion. What a waste of time and effort.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Book_burning
Look at the history of ignorance surrounding book burning. Yeah I'd love to be on the same page as the Nazi party on wikipedia.
I feel sorry for the people buring books because they must've led some pretty sheltered and uneducated lives. It's a shame this is coming from America because many countries see the United States as a role models of sorts.
Very sad 
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I think actions like these only bring trouble. No point really.
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On September 08 2010 15:35 krndandaman wrote:
This just sounds really immature.
Book burning just to piss off a group of people?
Sounds like the asshole in highschool who would constantly ask retarded questions on purpose to piss off the teacher.
I totally agree, I have no desire to burn the Koran, so why would I start doing it when I find out it pisses a load people off, it just seems so contrary.
If they are burning it because they believe it will do damage to the idea of Islam, then they are certainly going the wrong way about combating an idea, you don't marginalise an idea with fire, you do it with intelligent criticism.
-Edit
Also it occurs to me, that if I ever wanted to destroy a Koran for whatever reason, I wouldn't purge it with fire, how unmode, I would recycle it, so it could be made into a book which was more worthwhile.
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Personally, I wouldn't chose this medium.
However, I'm OK with it. It's like when you've been laddering all day and someone starts BMing you. You can't think of anything witty, so you just BM them back. No, its not optimal but it can be liberating. Better than the Quran/Koran burners blowing up a mosque or something.
You should never fight fire with fire, but it still feels good sometimes. It's pretty harmless to the current status quo.
Edit: Burning is too terroristy. If they really wanted to get under their skin, they should beat the Quran to a pulp WITH the bible. That would turn some heads. Also, I'm interested to see if this is possible.
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Wouldn't you be helping your cause even more if you were burning bibles next to them Blackjack?
Then we can hit a broader range of over sensitive people in a day :D
Anyways this is just stirring shit. No change will come of it except some angry muslims
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just saw this post on reddit
Go watch a John Woo movie. I'd recommend The Killer, but Hard Boiled Works to, as does A Better Tomorrow.
In John Woo's world, there are cops and there are mobsters, and they are on opposite sides. There is a cop/mobster axis and you are on one end or the other.
However, there is also an honorable and dishonorable axis, and it is perpendicular to the cop/mobster axis, so it divides Woo's moral universe into quadrants. You can be an honorable cop or a dishonorable one, and similarly you can be an honorable mobster or a dishonorable one. The way Woo tests his characters is by making them decide which axis is more important to them. If you're a good cop, do you take down the honorable mobster because he's a crook, or do you recognize that you share a similar code and help him defeat the dishonorable mobsters?
That's sort of what's going on here. There are people who believe in freedom and tolerance and diversity. There are both Muslims and... well hell I'm not sure what word to use here. I'm going to use Americans, but I'm a little uncomfortable with it. But there are both Muslims and Americans in that camp.
There is also a camp of religious and cultural extremists who want to demonize the other side and everything they do. And there are both Muslims and Americans in that camp as well.
Draw Muhammad day was about the freedom/repression axis. It was about people of either faith who value freedom standing up to those who would suppress it in the name or religion. I seem to recall Muslims on Reddit (and any Muslim who's on Reddit, you can pretty well figure where he falls on the freedom/represson axis) saying that they had no problem with Draw Muhammad day.
This wackjob who's going to be burning Qurans is working the other axis entirely. This is all about Christian America on one side, and the Islamic world on the other, and one side pissing all over the other to show that we hate them. I object to it because I think working the the Islam/America axis is a real dick move.
tl; dr: There's a big difference between saying to a small subset of Muslims who hate "we're not going to live in fear of your hatred," and saying to all Muslims "we hate you just because of who you are."
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Fuck em. Those people everybody else is worried about offending celebrated in the streets when 9/11 happened. Or do you guys not remember all those people dancing in the streets all across the middle east?
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On September 08 2010 16:53 dogabutila wrote:
Fuck em. Those people everybody else is worried about offending celebrated in the streets when 9/11 happened. Or do you guys not remember all those people dancing in the streets all across the middle east?
There was definitely not people dancing "all across the middle east". You don't think Muslims were killed in 9/11 also? The people celebrating were extremists.
Saying "fuck em" to people who support and like America and American policies is just outrageously dumb. No wonder there are so many problems with your country right now. People are too busy fighting amongst themselves over petty issues.
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On September 08 2010 16:53 dogabutila wrote:
Fuck em. Those people everybody else is worried about offending celebrated in the streets when 9/11 happened. Or do you guys not remember all those people dancing in the streets all across the middle east?
America is full of idiots -.-. Isnt the united states one of the most religious superpower in the world? You would think we would move on with religion by now.
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On September 08 2010 06:37 green.at wrote:i am ashamed that you are allowed here -.-
while I may not agree w/ his pov, and I might even find it abhorrent, I'll tolerate it.
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On September 08 2010 15:09 vek wrote:
Look at the history of ignorance surrounding book burning. Yeah I'd love to be on the same page as the Nazi party on wikipedia.
I wouldn't wish to either, but there have been other potential book-burners who weren't as deplorable as the Nazi's:
Democritus is supposed to have written some seventy books dealing with a range of subjects, from ethics to mathematics, from physics to music, from literature to medicine, history, and prognostication. It is a pity that none survives. According to Aristoxenus, who lived a century later, Plato wanted to burn all of Democritus's books but was dissuaded by his disciples, who pointed out that the books were already so widely distributed that burning them would do no good. Hundreds of pages of Plato's dialogues come down to us; not a single complete page of Democritus. - Charles Van Doren, A History of Knowledge, 1991 Ballantine Books.
All arguments about the freedom of speech aside, I think Plato's pupils and disciples had the right idea.
Also I really liked the post from reddit (below) as I think he neatly sums up the situation far more poignantly than anyone else has in this thread.
+ Show Spoiler +On September 08 2010 16:47 eSen1a wrote:just saw this post on reddit Show nested quote +Go watch a John Woo movie. I'd recommend The Killer, but Hard Boiled Works to, as does A Better Tomorrow.
In John Woo's world, there are cops and there are mobsters, and they are on opposite sides. There is a cop/mobster axis and you are on one end or the other.
However, there is also an honorable and dishonorable axis, and it is perpendicular to the cop/mobster axis, so it divides Woo's moral universe into quadrants. You can be an honorable cop or a dishonorable one, and similarly you can be an honorable mobster or a dishonorable one. The way Woo tests his characters is by making them decide which axis is more important to them. If you're a good cop, do you take down the honorable mobster because he's a crook, or do you recognize that you share a similar code and help him defeat the dishonorable mobsters?
That's sort of what's going on here. There are people who believe in freedom and tolerance and diversity. There are both Muslims and... well hell I'm not sure what word to use here. I'm going to use Americans, but I'm a little uncomfortable with it. But there are both Muslims and Americans in that camp.
There is also a camp of religious and cultural extremists who want to demonize the other side and everything they do. And there are both Muslims and Americans in that camp as well.
Draw Muhammad day was about the freedom/repression axis. It was about people of either faith who value freedom standing up to those who would suppress it in the name or religion. I seem to recall Muslims on Reddit (and any Muslim who's on Reddit, you can pretty well figure where he falls on the freedom/represson axis) saying that they had no problem with Draw Muhammad day.
This wackjob who's going to be burning Qurans is working the other axis entirely. This is all about Christian America on one side, and the Islamic world on the other, and one side pissing all over the other to show that we hate them. I object to it because I think working the the Islam/America axis is a real dick move.
tl; dr: There's a big difference between saying to a small subset of Muslims who hate "we're not going to live in fear of your hatred," and saying to all Muslims "we hate you just because of who you are."
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On September 08 2010 16:47 eSen1a wrote:just saw this post on reddit Show nested quote +Go watch a John Woo movie. I'd recommend The Killer, but Hard Boiled Works to, as does A Better Tomorrow.
In John Woo's world, there are cops and there are mobsters, and they are on opposite sides. There is a cop/mobster axis and you are on one end or the other.
However, there is also an honorable and dishonorable axis, and it is perpendicular to the cop/mobster axis, so it divides Woo's moral universe into quadrants. You can be an honorable cop or a dishonorable one, and similarly you can be an honorable mobster or a dishonorable one. The way Woo tests his characters is by making them decide which axis is more important to them. If you're a good cop, do you take down the honorable mobster because he's a crook, or do you recognize that you share a similar code and help him defeat the dishonorable mobsters?
That's sort of what's going on here. There are people who believe in freedom and tolerance and diversity. There are both Muslims and... well hell I'm not sure what word to use here. I'm going to use Americans, but I'm a little uncomfortable with it. But there are both Muslims and Americans in that camp.
There is also a camp of religious and cultural extremists who want to demonize the other side and everything they do. And there are both Muslims and Americans in that camp as well.
Draw Muhammad day was about the freedom/repression axis. It was about people of either faith who value freedom standing up to those who would suppress it in the name or religion. I seem to recall Muslims on Reddit (and any Muslim who's on Reddit, you can pretty well figure where he falls on the freedom/represson axis) saying that they had no problem with Draw Muhammad day.
This wackjob who's going to be burning Qurans is working the other axis entirely. This is all about Christian America on one side, and the Islamic world on the other, and one side pissing all over the other to show that we hate them. I object to it because I think working the the Islam/America axis is a real dick move.
tl; dr: There's a big difference between saying to a small subset of Muslims who hate "we're not going to live in fear of your hatred," and saying to all Muslims "we hate you just because of who you are."
So by John Woo logic Americans and Muslims (or Christians and Muslims as it should state imo) should band together to defeat religious extremists? That's how I interpreted it... and it makes extremely good sense.
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EPT
