• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 05:07
CET 11:07
KST 19:07
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Rongyi Cup S3 - Preview & Info3herO wins SC2 All-Star Invitational14SC2 All-Star Invitational: Tournament Preview5RSL Revival - 2025 Season Finals Preview8RSL Season 3 - Playoffs Preview0
Community News
Weekly Cups (Jan 19-25): Bunny, Trigger, MaxPax win1Weekly Cups (Jan 12-18): herO, MaxPax, Solar win0BSL Season 2025 - Full Overview and Conclusion8Weekly Cups (Jan 5-11): Clem wins big offline, Trigger upsets4$21,000 Rongyi Cup Season 3 announced (Jan 22-Feb 7)25
StarCraft 2
General
Smarter Support Is Becoming Part of the Strategy Oliveira Would Have Returned If EWC Continued Weekly Cups (Jan 19-25): Bunny, Trigger, MaxPax win StarCraft 2 not at the Esports World Cup 2026 herO wins SC2 All-Star Invitational
Tourneys
https://www.facebook.com/SerenatoxDetoxTeaUK.EUR/ $21,000 Rongyi Cup Season 3 announced (Jan 22-Feb 7) OSC Season 13 World Championship $70 Prize Pool Ladder Legends Academy Weekly Open! SC2 All-Star Invitational: Jan 17-18
Strategy
Simple Questions Simple Answers
Custom Maps
[A] Starcraft Sound Mod
External Content
Mutation # 510 Safety Violation Mutation # 509 Doomsday Report Mutation # 508 Violent Night Mutation # 507 Well Trained
Brood War
General
[ASL21] Potential Map Candidates BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ Which foreign pros are considered the best? Gypsy to Korea Fantasy's Q&A video
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues Azhi's Colosseum - Season 2 Small VOD Thread 2.0 [BSL21] Non-Korean Championship - Starts Jan 10
Strategy
Current Meta Simple Questions, Simple Answers Soma's 9 hatch build from ASL Game 2 Game Theory for Starcraft
Other Games
General Games
Beyond All Reason Nintendo Switch Thread Battle Aces/David Kim RTS Megathread Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Awesome Games Done Quick 2026!
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Lost love spell caster in Spain +27 74 116 2667
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Vanilla Mini Mafia Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread YouTube Thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Canadian Politics Mega-thread European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
The herO Fan Club! The IdrA Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread [Manga] One Piece
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
How Esports Advertising Shap…
TrAiDoS
My 2025 Magic: The Gathering…
DARKING
Life Update and thoughts.
FuDDx
How do archons sleep?
8882
James Bond movies ranking - pa…
Topin
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1488 users

One Part about Talent, Personal Experience Rant

Blogs > ilovezil
Post a Reply
1 2 Next All
ilovezil
Profile Blog Joined August 2006
United States4143 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-07-29 22:31:08
July 29 2010 22:25 GMT
#1
As someone who stands as an advocate of "ultimate opportunity for all", I usually do not give too much stock to the merits of "natural talent". By natural talent, I refer to an unusual display of accelerated learning in an individual. I have discussed my thoughts rather thoroughly before in a previous thread.

Now, what I've preached before was that the ultimate end product of several years and decades of hard work is indeterminate, meaning it is not always the specially chosen talents will always bring home the glory. Don't underestimate the underdog. Never get too cocky, or someone will rise up and dethrone you faster than you'd imagine. Yes, I've always been the one to root for the underdog.

[image loading]
True Underdog

Some people take the disadvantages they have against those who are "gifted" and ultimately use them as stepping stones to reach that seemingly unattainable platform. In this case, I think about Rudy from Notre Dame and how he made it into a great football team in an extremely prestigous school, against all odds, to make history in high school football like never before.

[image loading]
A true hero.

Sadly, I think this doctrine of mine acted as a double edged sword. In my case, I felt no pressure from anyone as the underdog. Whether it's in my studies or in pursuit of a special skill, I found that if no one expects great things from you, you can always gloat over any victories over the smart or talented ones, while crawling back into your "average guy" shell if you lose.

In fact, there is talent. There are reasons why people who spend the same amount of time as you are better than you or worse than you at any given field. They culminate the combination of their own talents, hard work, and perseverance to reach the level you see so high. To jump that gap, if you learn more slowly compared to them, the basic formula tells you to put more into hard work and dedication. If that is not enough, you need to work around another learning method with different people to get you further ahead.

[image loading]
Where do I, where do YOU fit on this graph?

Now, I am living with a scholastic talent, one that was right under my nose. My younger sister in second grade right now, is able to complete reading at the fourth grade level while working on math 3rd or 4th grade level. Because she reads and understands at such a high level and solves math problems up to long division, the teachers at her school purposely give her work that higher grade levels complete. They call her a genius. Upon hearing that self-imposed taboo, I feel a mix of pride, sadness, and envy. What my sister learned under the same conditions as I had back in grade school, she breezed through as if it were childsplay (hah).

I still hold the same ultimate views on giving everyone a chance to stand atop the skill graph. Provided one puts enough work, sticks with it long enough, and uses the right learning methods, I believe anyone can reserve that special spot above the rest. However, not EVERYONE can reserve that spot. I referred to the example with my sister's academic talents to demonstrate you will encounter people that just seem to have that gift, regardless of whatever truth you hold. The reality is that competition out there is less merciful, the higher you climb on that proverbial ladder of skill and success.

“Use what talents you possess; the woods would be very silent if no birds sang there except those that sang best.” - Henry Van Dyke

I like this quote because the way I interpret it, nothing is reserved for only the elite. "Talent" comes in all different forms; you never know what different element someone can bring to the field.



Ok fine, I was partly inspired to write this blog because I'm getting smashed hardcore on iccup and lost $50 betting against some 230 average hustler in bowling and wanted to randomly rant. Tilt :/

*****
ella_guru
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
Canada1741 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-07-29 23:15:08
July 29 2010 23:13 GMT
#2
People learn differently though. What might be ideal conditions for her (the standard school system and its' methods) certainly don't work for everyone. Albert Einstein being the obvious exception to cite. The problem is we dont all get to find out the best methods for ourselves for a variety of reasons (fear/ laziness)

I'm a d play on iccup if you want to fuck me up some for some confidence ^ _^
Each day gets better : )
ghrur
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
United States3786 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-07-29 23:15:38
July 29 2010 23:13 GMT
#3
Awww, it's okay. You can always smash l10f on iccup. :D

+ Show Spoiler +
And he can always smash roffles+ Show Spoiler +
Who can always smash me+ Show Spoiler +
if we all played SCBW :D
darkness overpowering
ilovezil
Profile Blog Joined August 2006
United States4143 Posts
July 29 2010 23:23 GMT
#4
On July 30 2010 08:13 ella_guru wrote:
People learn differently though. What might be ideal conditions for her (the standard school system and its' methods) certainly don't work for everyone. Albert Einstein being the obvious exception to cite. The problem is we dont all get to find out the best methods for ourselves for a variety of reasons (fear/ laziness)



I share the same views. Still, it's true that you'll have to encounter that one person who'll smash you around like a punching bag and beat you no matter what you try. Those are the worst because you feel like you have no understanding of the situation whatsoever and gets to you psychologically (bw, studying, sports, whatever).

Like I said, I still hold a broad view of high level competition, but everyone has those moments where you just wanna faceplant straight to the floor.
swanized
Profile Blog Joined September 2009
Canada2480 Posts
July 29 2010 23:23 GMT
#5
nice rant

5/5
Writer
A3iL3r0n
Profile Blog Joined October 2002
United States2196 Posts
July 29 2010 23:25 GMT
#6
I came across a great quote recently, and it said, "Genius is eternal patience". Don't despair, just work harder. Easier said than done of course.
My psychiatrist says I have deep-seated Ragneuroses :(
GreatFall
Profile Blog Joined January 2010
United States1061 Posts
July 29 2010 23:34 GMT
#7
I hear ya man... I've enjoyed gaming a lot more since I stopped caring so much if I win or lose. I just try to learn and do my best and because of that I can pick up the game or put it down whenever I want. Same with school I just gave up on all A's and went for my best and my stress lowered. Everything is much more fun now and I am more successful than ever.
Inventor of the 'Burning Tide' technique to quickly getting Outmatched Crusher achivement :D
Elroi
Profile Joined August 2009
Sweden5599 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-07-29 23:47:55
July 29 2010 23:40 GMT
#8
I feel good when I'm reading your blog(s). You definitely have a talent for writing.

I also think that one should use whatever talent one has. I had really really good grades in high school without ever having to work very much for them and ofc I thought I was very clever and talented (lol). It was a huge shock for me when I first started university and I realized that here I was nothing special. Nowdays I take pride in always trying my best and not losing focus of my goals.

(edit) there is a beautiful swedish proverb: "Better listen to a broken bow string than to never draw a bow." (It should be something like that in English...)
"To all eSports fans, I want to be remembered as a progamer who can make something out of nothing, and someone who always does his best. I think that is the right way of living, and I'm always doing my best to follow that." - Jaedong. /watch?v=jfghAzJqAp0
Redmark
Profile Joined March 2010
Canada2129 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-07-30 00:00:37
July 29 2010 23:59 GMT
#9
In matters outside of 100m sprints I really doubt that talent exists.
That's not to say that you haven't had more obstacles in your way than your sister has had. You have. But I would think that that is more a result of nurture than nature. It doesn't really matter if you have a few more brain cells if you have a bad teacher. It doesn't matter if you can't memorize as much, if you have friends to learn with. The advantage that she had over you was the environment in which she grew up, and that's something that you can change. Obviously it will be harder for you than your sister, but there's no physical barrier stopping you.

edit: she's in second grade? all the better then, you have time to beat her
Hidden_MotiveS
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Canada2562 Posts
July 30 2010 00:40 GMT
#10
Isn't the ability to work hard sometimes a talent?
love1another
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
United States1844 Posts
July 30 2010 01:30 GMT
#11
Talent definitely exists. I got a 2400 on my SAT after 4 hours of studying.
"I'm learning more and more that TL isn't the place to go for advice outside of anything you need in college. It's like you guys just make up your own fantasy world shit and post it as if you've done it." - Chill
Megalisk
Profile Blog Joined October 2008
United States6095 Posts
July 30 2010 01:37 GMT
#12
On July 30 2010 10:30 love1another wrote:
Talent definitely exists. I got a 2400 on my SAT after 4 hours of studying.


Yet you need instructions on how to hug someone..funny world..
Tear stained american saints and dirty guitar dreams across a universe of desert and blue sky , gas station coffee love letters and two dollar pistol kisses from thirty five dollar hotel room stationary .
ella_guru
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
Canada1741 Posts
July 30 2010 01:37 GMT
#13
On July 30 2010 10:30 love1another wrote:
Talent definitely exists. I got a 2400 on my SAT after 4 hours of studying.


This sort of thing has already ben dealt with. Go bang some shanghai chicks.
Each day gets better : )
love1another
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
United States1844 Posts
July 30 2010 01:41 GMT
#14
Lol. I gotta stop ruining blogs with bad jokes. I actually studied a lot in the past... The four hours purely refers to the month before the test... But it sounded a lot more badass right? Why can't we like tattoo SAT scores on our bodies. Why can't the volume of our penises correspond to the number of perfect scores we get on standardized tests? Why can't our attractiveness to women correspond to the number of national academic recognitions we have earned?

Fuck talent. Talent doesn't get you Shanghai chicks.
"I'm learning more and more that TL isn't the place to go for advice outside of anything you need in college. It's like you guys just make up your own fantasy world shit and post it as if you've done it." - Chill
ella_guru
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
Canada1741 Posts
July 30 2010 01:43 GMT
#15
On July 30 2010 10:41 love1another wrote:


Fuck talent. Talent doesn't get you Shanghai chicks.



You just won me over ^ _^
Each day gets better : )
YoonHo
Profile Blog Joined October 2008
Canada1043 Posts
July 30 2010 01:45 GMT
#16
On July 30 2010 09:40 Hidden_MotiveS wrote:
Isn't the ability to work hard sometimes a talent?


That's how I see it. Even with talent, I believe that you need lots of practice + hard work to be able to succeed. Nevertheless, there are still some people that are able to get away with relying purely on talent.
IUFam Golf Wang~ NrGsteve
ilovezil
Profile Blog Joined August 2006
United States4143 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-07-30 02:07:01
July 30 2010 02:04 GMT
#17
On July 30 2010 10:45 YoonHo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 30 2010 09:40 Hidden_MotiveS wrote:
Isn't the ability to work hard sometimes a talent?


That's how I see it. Even with talent, I believe that you need lots of practice + hard work to be able to succeed. Nevertheless, there are still some people that are able to get away with relying purely on talent.


If you mean compete at a relative level with less practice than others, yes there are those who may get by with talent. However, all things come around. First of all, you don't know how much time that person's already invested into the skill, and what quality investment that time consisted. I could probably learn more in one hour from a pro than I could in a whole month by myself. Second, there is absolutely no way you're going to get by at the absolute pinnacle of competition without constant hard work, with VERY few exceptions such as Mozart during his time. There are so many hardworking individuals trying to grab that top reserve for themselves that it's impossible for any one human being to simply "get by with talent".

Sure you may find those who seem to pick up concepts and motor skills almost on the go, but as I see it, it breaks down like this:

Those who learn super fast at an early stage, let's insert person A, will soar in the learning curve, but more than likely whittle out after a while. Those who learn slowly, let's insert person B, can still cover a lot of area by finding what works for them, then soar in skills later. Of course, this isn't always how it works, but I believe it is generally how it is. Either way, I believe it's important to look at what level A and B stand in the end.

Plus, it feels that much better when you win as the underdog, knowing you got by with hard work and dedication.
ella_guru
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
Canada1741 Posts
July 30 2010 02:16 GMT
#18
I dont get the mozart thing :S
Each day gets better : )
ilovezil
Profile Blog Joined August 2006
United States4143 Posts
July 30 2010 02:22 GMT
#19
As I understand from reading someone's comment in that previous blog, I believe Mozart had some type of mental condition. If I remember this correctly, he was able to use that "handicap" to further his musical abilities, while suffering otherwise.

I'll have to look it up to make sure, though. Also, music is within a realm I dare not touch :p
love1another
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
United States1844 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-07-30 02:27:21
July 30 2010 02:26 GMT
#20
On July 30 2010 11:04 ilovezil wrote:
Those who learn super fast at an early stage, let's insert person A, will soar in the learning curve, but more than likely whittle out after a while. Those who learn slowly, let's insert person B, can still cover a lot of area by finding what works for them, then soar in skills later. Of course, this isn't always how it works, but I believe it is generally how it is. Either way, I believe it's important to look at what level A and B stand in the end.


What you say may have a biological underpinning, and when we are talking about the realization of a person's genetic/physical potential this is might be a very valid point in that some people experience "growth spurts" (both mental and physical) at different times of development.

On the other hand if we aren't so much talking about the realization of that true potential but rather just getting to a socially acceptable level of proficiency, this is rarely the case. What ends up happening is that the people who start ahead end up getting further and further ahead in a sort of positive feedback loop.

I think Malcolm Gladwell wrote a piece about how a small advantage in reading ability at a young age often snowballs into a huge advantage later, simply because that additional reading ability actually encourages the child to read more than his/her relatively disadvantaged counterpart.

And since very few things in life, with several exceptions like the Olympics or Pro-scene Broodwar, really require any of us to push a skill to our physical limits, this later argument (of reaching a socially acceptable level) is probably far more notable. To be successful in life, isn't being able to read the books you need to in school, and memoranda at work completely sufficient?

I could give many more specialized examples, but I think the point is pretty clear:
for >99% of the population, the presence of what we consider "extraordinary talent" is irrelevant to societal productivity and long-term happiness.
"I'm learning more and more that TL isn't the place to go for advice outside of anything you need in college. It's like you guys just make up your own fantasy world shit and post it as if you've done it." - Chill
1 2 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Replay Cast
09:00
Rongyi Cup S3 - Playoffs Day 1
CranKy Ducklings86
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
SortOf 178
RotterdaM 5
StarCraft: Brood War
Flash 1505
Hyuk 1043
Rain 957
Jaedong 686
Soma 308
Killer 238
Hyun 223
JulyZerg 219
Mong 174
Stork 159
[ Show more ]
BeSt 71
Larva 66
Rush 56
Noble 53
Hm[arnc] 47
soO 46
ZerO 44
Backho 42
Shuttle 38
Light 37
HiyA 28
ToSsGirL 28
Snow 25
hero 25
zelot 21
Sacsri 21
GoRush 19
Bale 11
Dewaltoss 4
Dota 2
Gorgc3125
XcaliburYe145
Fuzer 134
NeuroSwarm104
League of Legends
JimRising 907
C9.Mang0315
Counter-Strike
oskar117
Other Games
singsing1595
Liquid`RaSZi576
olofmeister569
ceh9513
Happy386
crisheroes190
Mew2King132
Pyrionflax44
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick899
StarCraft: Brood War
Kim Chul Min (afreeca) 222
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 15 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• LUISG 7
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• iopq 14
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Nemesis4213
• Lourlo1171
• Stunt469
Upcoming Events
RongYI Cup
53m
Clem vs TriGGeR
Maru vs Creator
RotterdaM5
WardiTV Invitational
3h 53m
PiGosaur Cup
14h 53m
Replay Cast
22h 53m
RongYI Cup
1d
herO vs Solar
WardiTV Invitational
1d 3h
The PondCast
1d 22h
HomeStory Cup
3 days
Korean StarCraft League
3 days
HomeStory Cup
4 days
[ Show More ]
Replay Cast
4 days
HomeStory Cup
5 days
Replay Cast
5 days
Replay Cast
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-01-26
OSC Championship Season 13
Underdog Cup #3

Ongoing

CSL 2025 WINTER (S19)
KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 1
Acropolis #4 - TS4
Rongyi Cup S3
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter Qual
eXTREMESLAND 2025
SL Budapest Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 8
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025

Upcoming

Escore Tournament S1: W6
Escore Tournament S1: W7
Acropolis #4
IPSL Spring 2026
uThermal 2v2 2026 Main Event
Bellum Gens Elite Stara Zagora 2026
LiuLi Cup: 2025 Grand Finals
HSC XXVIII
Nations Cup 2026
PGL Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 1
BLAST Open Spring 2026
ESL Pro League Season 23
ESL Pro League Season 23
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026
IEM Kraków 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.