• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 07:39
CEST 13:39
KST 20:39
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL22] Ro4 Preview: Mirror Mirror5[ASL22] Ro8 Preview: Within Reach5[ASL22] Ro8 Preview: In A Tizzy11[ASL22] Ro16 Preview: Holy Diver5[ASL22] Ro16 Preview: Rough Waters10
Community News
Rollback Netcode in Brood War445.0.17 Patch Notes - October 7, 202621Weekly Cups Results (Sep 28-Oct 4)0SC4ALL: II SC2 Complete Invited Player Lineup10StarCraft II 5.0.17 PTR Patch Notes (Sept 30, 2026)78
StarCraft 2
General
5.0.17 Patch Notes - October 7, 2026 [Old] StarCraft 3 Reportedly in Development StarCraft II 5.0.17 PTR Patch Notes (Sept 30, 2026) How do you feel about the mass reverts in the 5.0.17 PTR? Weekly Cups Results (Sep 28-Oct 4)
Tourneys
$3,500 WardiTV Not-Summer Championship ScienceCraft (October 24-25) - Live Event RSL 2026 Offline Finals LCQ Sign-Ups Stellar Fest TWO the Moon (Dec 16-20) ISSL (IntoTheTV x SOOP SC2 League): Premier
Strategy
[H] ZvP Mid-Late Game: Stalkers Collossi HT
Custom Maps
[M] (2) Sweltering Sands [M] (2) Frigid Storage
External Content
Mutation # 546 Catch the Train The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 545 And Drops and Rifts Mutation # 544 Double Trouble
Brood War
General
TL Sidebar missing streams Mineral Boosting (2 workers/patch) BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ Rollback Netcode in Brood War [ASL22] Ro4 Preview: Mirror Mirror
Tourneys
[ASL22] Semifinal B [ASL22] Semifinal A [Megathread] Daily Proleagues [ASL22] Ro8 Day 4
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Cliff Jump Revisited (1 in a 1000 strategy) Replay Review Process - What do you do?
Other Games
General Games
Nintendo Switch Thread General RTS Discussion Thread Warcraft III: The Frozen Throne Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Total Annihilation Zero
Dota 2
Dota 2 Champions League Season 3 Begins April 25! Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
[TL LoL EUW IHs] Teemo shall perish
Heroes of the Storm
Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Artificial Intelligence Thread Canadian Politics Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
Serral Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
[Manga] One Piece Movie Discussion! Diablo Animated Series on Netflix
Sports
TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 Football (Soccer) Thread MLB/Baseball 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
Recent Gifted Posts
Blogs
[ASL22] Ro4 Day1 Ticket Giv…
bITt.mAN
Escaping Into Video Games: G…
TrAiDoS
38 yo Retired SWE loo…
PurE)Rabbit-SF
Can Bots Beat Pros?? Starcr…
namkraft
[meme] I finally understa…
LUCKY_NOOB
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 9348 users

One Part about Talent, Personal Experience Rant

Blogs > ilovezil
Post a Reply
1 2 Next All
ilovezil
Profile Blog Joined August 2006
United States4143 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-07-29 22:31:08
July 29 2010 22:25 GMT
#1
As someone who stands as an advocate of "ultimate opportunity for all", I usually do not give too much stock to the merits of "natural talent". By natural talent, I refer to an unusual display of accelerated learning in an individual. I have discussed my thoughts rather thoroughly before in a previous thread.

Now, what I've preached before was that the ultimate end product of several years and decades of hard work is indeterminate, meaning it is not always the specially chosen talents will always bring home the glory. Don't underestimate the underdog. Never get too cocky, or someone will rise up and dethrone you faster than you'd imagine. Yes, I've always been the one to root for the underdog.

[image loading]
True Underdog

Some people take the disadvantages they have against those who are "gifted" and ultimately use them as stepping stones to reach that seemingly unattainable platform. In this case, I think about Rudy from Notre Dame and how he made it into a great football team in an extremely prestigous school, against all odds, to make history in high school football like never before.

[image loading]
A true hero.

Sadly, I think this doctrine of mine acted as a double edged sword. In my case, I felt no pressure from anyone as the underdog. Whether it's in my studies or in pursuit of a special skill, I found that if no one expects great things from you, you can always gloat over any victories over the smart or talented ones, while crawling back into your "average guy" shell if you lose.

In fact, there is talent. There are reasons why people who spend the same amount of time as you are better than you or worse than you at any given field. They culminate the combination of their own talents, hard work, and perseverance to reach the level you see so high. To jump that gap, if you learn more slowly compared to them, the basic formula tells you to put more into hard work and dedication. If that is not enough, you need to work around another learning method with different people to get you further ahead.

[image loading]
Where do I, where do YOU fit on this graph?

Now, I am living with a scholastic talent, one that was right under my nose. My younger sister in second grade right now, is able to complete reading at the fourth grade level while working on math 3rd or 4th grade level. Because she reads and understands at such a high level and solves math problems up to long division, the teachers at her school purposely give her work that higher grade levels complete. They call her a genius. Upon hearing that self-imposed taboo, I feel a mix of pride, sadness, and envy. What my sister learned under the same conditions as I had back in grade school, she breezed through as if it were childsplay (hah).

I still hold the same ultimate views on giving everyone a chance to stand atop the skill graph. Provided one puts enough work, sticks with it long enough, and uses the right learning methods, I believe anyone can reserve that special spot above the rest. However, not EVERYONE can reserve that spot. I referred to the example with my sister's academic talents to demonstrate you will encounter people that just seem to have that gift, regardless of whatever truth you hold. The reality is that competition out there is less merciful, the higher you climb on that proverbial ladder of skill and success.

“Use what talents you possess; the woods would be very silent if no birds sang there except those that sang best.” - Henry Van Dyke

I like this quote because the way I interpret it, nothing is reserved for only the elite. "Talent" comes in all different forms; you never know what different element someone can bring to the field.



Ok fine, I was partly inspired to write this blog because I'm getting smashed hardcore on iccup and lost $50 betting against some 230 average hustler in bowling and wanted to randomly rant. Tilt :/

*****
ella_guru
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
Canada1741 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-07-29 23:15:08
July 29 2010 23:13 GMT
#2
People learn differently though. What might be ideal conditions for her (the standard school system and its' methods) certainly don't work for everyone. Albert Einstein being the obvious exception to cite. The problem is we dont all get to find out the best methods for ourselves for a variety of reasons (fear/ laziness)

I'm a d play on iccup if you want to fuck me up some for some confidence ^ _^
Each day gets better : )
ghrur
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
United States3786 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-07-29 23:15:38
July 29 2010 23:13 GMT
#3
Awww, it's okay. You can always smash l10f on iccup. :D

+ Show Spoiler +
And he can always smash roffles+ Show Spoiler +
Who can always smash me+ Show Spoiler +
if we all played SCBW :D
darkness overpowering
ilovezil
Profile Blog Joined August 2006
United States4143 Posts
July 29 2010 23:23 GMT
#4
On July 30 2010 08:13 ella_guru wrote:
People learn differently though. What might be ideal conditions for her (the standard school system and its' methods) certainly don't work for everyone. Albert Einstein being the obvious exception to cite. The problem is we dont all get to find out the best methods for ourselves for a variety of reasons (fear/ laziness)



I share the same views. Still, it's true that you'll have to encounter that one person who'll smash you around like a punching bag and beat you no matter what you try. Those are the worst because you feel like you have no understanding of the situation whatsoever and gets to you psychologically (bw, studying, sports, whatever).

Like I said, I still hold a broad view of high level competition, but everyone has those moments where you just wanna faceplant straight to the floor.
swanized
Profile Blog Joined September 2009
Canada2480 Posts
July 29 2010 23:23 GMT
#5
nice rant

5/5
Writer
A3iL3r0n
Profile Blog Joined October 2002
United States2196 Posts
July 29 2010 23:25 GMT
#6
I came across a great quote recently, and it said, "Genius is eternal patience". Don't despair, just work harder. Easier said than done of course.
My psychiatrist says I have deep-seated Ragneuroses :(
GreatFall
Profile Blog Joined January 2010
United States1061 Posts
July 29 2010 23:34 GMT
#7
I hear ya man... I've enjoyed gaming a lot more since I stopped caring so much if I win or lose. I just try to learn and do my best and because of that I can pick up the game or put it down whenever I want. Same with school I just gave up on all A's and went for my best and my stress lowered. Everything is much more fun now and I am more successful than ever.
Inventor of the 'Burning Tide' technique to quickly getting Outmatched Crusher achivement :D
Elroi
Profile Joined August 2009
Sweden5617 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-07-29 23:47:55
July 29 2010 23:40 GMT
#8
I feel good when I'm reading your blog(s). You definitely have a talent for writing.

I also think that one should use whatever talent one has. I had really really good grades in high school without ever having to work very much for them and ofc I thought I was very clever and talented (lol). It was a huge shock for me when I first started university and I realized that here I was nothing special. Nowdays I take pride in always trying my best and not losing focus of my goals.

(edit) there is a beautiful swedish proverb: "Better listen to a broken bow string than to never draw a bow." (It should be something like that in English...)
"To all eSports fans, I want to be remembered as a progamer who can make something out of nothing, and someone who always does his best. I think that is the right way of living, and I'm always doing my best to follow that." - Jaedong. /watch?v=jfghAzJqAp0
Redmark
Profile Joined March 2010
Canada2129 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-07-30 00:00:37
July 29 2010 23:59 GMT
#9
In matters outside of 100m sprints I really doubt that talent exists.
That's not to say that you haven't had more obstacles in your way than your sister has had. You have. But I would think that that is more a result of nurture than nature. It doesn't really matter if you have a few more brain cells if you have a bad teacher. It doesn't matter if you can't memorize as much, if you have friends to learn with. The advantage that she had over you was the environment in which she grew up, and that's something that you can change. Obviously it will be harder for you than your sister, but there's no physical barrier stopping you.

edit: she's in second grade? all the better then, you have time to beat her
Hidden_MotiveS
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Canada2562 Posts
July 30 2010 00:40 GMT
#10
Isn't the ability to work hard sometimes a talent?
love1another
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
United States1844 Posts
July 30 2010 01:30 GMT
#11
Talent definitely exists. I got a 2400 on my SAT after 4 hours of studying.
"I'm learning more and more that TL isn't the place to go for advice outside of anything you need in college. It's like you guys just make up your own fantasy world shit and post it as if you've done it." - Chill
Megalisk
Profile Blog Joined October 2008
United States6095 Posts
July 30 2010 01:37 GMT
#12
On July 30 2010 10:30 love1another wrote:
Talent definitely exists. I got a 2400 on my SAT after 4 hours of studying.


Yet you need instructions on how to hug someone..funny world..
Tear stained american saints and dirty guitar dreams across a universe of desert and blue sky , gas station coffee love letters and two dollar pistol kisses from thirty five dollar hotel room stationary .
ella_guru
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
Canada1741 Posts
July 30 2010 01:37 GMT
#13
On July 30 2010 10:30 love1another wrote:
Talent definitely exists. I got a 2400 on my SAT after 4 hours of studying.


This sort of thing has already ben dealt with. Go bang some shanghai chicks.
Each day gets better : )
love1another
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
United States1844 Posts
July 30 2010 01:41 GMT
#14
Lol. I gotta stop ruining blogs with bad jokes. I actually studied a lot in the past... The four hours purely refers to the month before the test... But it sounded a lot more badass right? Why can't we like tattoo SAT scores on our bodies. Why can't the volume of our penises correspond to the number of perfect scores we get on standardized tests? Why can't our attractiveness to women correspond to the number of national academic recognitions we have earned?

Fuck talent. Talent doesn't get you Shanghai chicks.
"I'm learning more and more that TL isn't the place to go for advice outside of anything you need in college. It's like you guys just make up your own fantasy world shit and post it as if you've done it." - Chill
ella_guru
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
Canada1741 Posts
July 30 2010 01:43 GMT
#15
On July 30 2010 10:41 love1another wrote:


Fuck talent. Talent doesn't get you Shanghai chicks.



You just won me over ^ _^
Each day gets better : )
YoonHo
Profile Blog Joined October 2008
Canada1043 Posts
July 30 2010 01:45 GMT
#16
On July 30 2010 09:40 Hidden_MotiveS wrote:
Isn't the ability to work hard sometimes a talent?


That's how I see it. Even with talent, I believe that you need lots of practice + hard work to be able to succeed. Nevertheless, there are still some people that are able to get away with relying purely on talent.
IUFam Golf Wang~ NrGsteve
ilovezil
Profile Blog Joined August 2006
United States4143 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-07-30 02:07:01
July 30 2010 02:04 GMT
#17
On July 30 2010 10:45 YoonHo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 30 2010 09:40 Hidden_MotiveS wrote:
Isn't the ability to work hard sometimes a talent?


That's how I see it. Even with talent, I believe that you need lots of practice + hard work to be able to succeed. Nevertheless, there are still some people that are able to get away with relying purely on talent.


If you mean compete at a relative level with less practice than others, yes there are those who may get by with talent. However, all things come around. First of all, you don't know how much time that person's already invested into the skill, and what quality investment that time consisted. I could probably learn more in one hour from a pro than I could in a whole month by myself. Second, there is absolutely no way you're going to get by at the absolute pinnacle of competition without constant hard work, with VERY few exceptions such as Mozart during his time. There are so many hardworking individuals trying to grab that top reserve for themselves that it's impossible for any one human being to simply "get by with talent".

Sure you may find those who seem to pick up concepts and motor skills almost on the go, but as I see it, it breaks down like this:

Those who learn super fast at an early stage, let's insert person A, will soar in the learning curve, but more than likely whittle out after a while. Those who learn slowly, let's insert person B, can still cover a lot of area by finding what works for them, then soar in skills later. Of course, this isn't always how it works, but I believe it is generally how it is. Either way, I believe it's important to look at what level A and B stand in the end.

Plus, it feels that much better when you win as the underdog, knowing you got by with hard work and dedication.
ella_guru
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
Canada1741 Posts
July 30 2010 02:16 GMT
#18
I dont get the mozart thing :S
Each day gets better : )
ilovezil
Profile Blog Joined August 2006
United States4143 Posts
July 30 2010 02:22 GMT
#19
As I understand from reading someone's comment in that previous blog, I believe Mozart had some type of mental condition. If I remember this correctly, he was able to use that "handicap" to further his musical abilities, while suffering otherwise.

I'll have to look it up to make sure, though. Also, music is within a realm I dare not touch :p
love1another
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
United States1844 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-07-30 02:27:21
July 30 2010 02:26 GMT
#20
On July 30 2010 11:04 ilovezil wrote:
Those who learn super fast at an early stage, let's insert person A, will soar in the learning curve, but more than likely whittle out after a while. Those who learn slowly, let's insert person B, can still cover a lot of area by finding what works for them, then soar in skills later. Of course, this isn't always how it works, but I believe it is generally how it is. Either way, I believe it's important to look at what level A and B stand in the end.


What you say may have a biological underpinning, and when we are talking about the realization of a person's genetic/physical potential this is might be a very valid point in that some people experience "growth spurts" (both mental and physical) at different times of development.

On the other hand if we aren't so much talking about the realization of that true potential but rather just getting to a socially acceptable level of proficiency, this is rarely the case. What ends up happening is that the people who start ahead end up getting further and further ahead in a sort of positive feedback loop.

I think Malcolm Gladwell wrote a piece about how a small advantage in reading ability at a young age often snowballs into a huge advantage later, simply because that additional reading ability actually encourages the child to read more than his/her relatively disadvantaged counterpart.

And since very few things in life, with several exceptions like the Olympics or Pro-scene Broodwar, really require any of us to push a skill to our physical limits, this later argument (of reaching a socially acceptable level) is probably far more notable. To be successful in life, isn't being able to read the books you need to in school, and memoranda at work completely sufficient?

I could give many more specialized examples, but I think the point is pretty clear:
for >99% of the population, the presence of what we consider "extraordinary talent" is irrelevant to societal productivity and long-term happiness.
"I'm learning more and more that TL isn't the place to go for advice outside of anything you need in college. It's like you guys just make up your own fantasy world shit and post it as if you've done it." - Chill
1 2 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Big Brain Bouts
19:00
#129
Rex vs INexorable
GgMaChine vs HeRoMaRinE
Reynor vs herO
RotterdaM688
IndyStarCraft 140
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
RotterdaM 688
Lowko463
mouzHeroMarine 222
IndyStarCraft 140
MindelVK 21
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 34113
Free 5735
Jaedong 909
BeSt 480
Horang2 441
Soulkey 434
Soma 272
Larva 246
Zeus 245
Mini 232
[ Show more ]
Last 127
sorry 116
Hyun 97
actioN 80
Mind 78
Pusan 75
Sexy 66
Shinee 42
soO 33
scan(afreeca) 19
ToSsGirL 17
yabsab 16
zelot 10
Sacsri 9
Aegong 7
Dota 2
Gorgc5612
Dendi468
XaKoH 282
XcaliburYe175
Counter-Strike
byalli575
Other Games
gofns42897
singsing2157
Coldzera 698
B2W.Neo530
Pyrionflax248
ToD133
trigger5
Organizations
Other Games
BasetradeTV214
StarCraft: Brood War
lovetv 9
StarCraft 2
TaKeTV 9
[ Show 15 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Adnapsc2 18
• LUISG 18
• StrangeGG 15
• Gemini_19 12
• Light_VIP 10
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• Migwel
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• WagamamaTV383
League of Legends
• Jankos3873
Upcoming Events
Online Event
21m
AI Arena Tournament
5h 21m
BSL: Ladder Tournament
7h 21m
Sparkling Tuna Cup
22h 21m
Patches Events
1d 3h
BSL Open Qualifier
1d 7h
BSL Open Qualifier
1d 7h
OSC
2 days
WardiTV Weekly
2 days
PiGosaur Cup
3 days
[ Show More ]
The PondCast
4 days
Online Event
5 days
Korean StarCraft League
6 days
Afreeca Starleague
6 days
Rush vs Soulkey
CranKy Ducklings
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Acropolis #5 - GSB
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
Copium Cup

Ongoing

ASL Season 22
Super Anchor Qualifying S3
Acropolis #5
HCC Season 3
ESL Pro League Season 24
Stake Ranked Episode 4
1win Private Club #1
Logitech G Play Connect 2026
SL StarSeries Fall 2026
FISSURE Playground #3
BLAST Open Fall 2026
Esports World Cup 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer 2026

Upcoming

Acropolis #5 - GSC
BSL Season 23
SC4ALL II: Brood War
BSL 23: Non-Korean Championship
HSC XXX
Stellar Fest 2: Lunar Cup
SC4ALL II: StarCraft II
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
RSL Offline Finals
eXTREMESLAND 2026
PGL Major Singapore 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 6
BLAST Rivals Fall 2026
IEM Beijing 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 5
PGL Masters Bucharest 2026
1win Private Club #2
Thunderpick World Champ. '26
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.