No, i'm not trolling, this is constructive criticism textwall im making.
Anyone else thinks that after 100th episode day9daily has been getting progressively more stale and... dare i say, boring? The only recent episode that really got my interest was the one with QXC because it brought in some fresh thoughts.
i feel like 90% of the show consists of recycled ideas and thoughts he already made a bunch of times, and whenever he pauses the game and starts talking i cannot help but to skip it because i already know the point that hes about to make (i watch vods)
Furthermore, even in a the run of a single show, especially in the ones examining someones build i feel like hes dragging it by putting in those previously mentioned thoughts so he has something to go on until he reaches the important bit, and often times that actual point hes trying to make doesn't happen in the replay because he hasn't watched it before the show.
Yes i know that he recently stated in one of hes dailies that he think that few people watch all of his dailies+commentaries, thats his excuse for repeating himself. IMO he should do it less, or avoid doing it in dailies extensively.
But i think the ideal solution would be to radically change the format of the show and make it a weekly show instead of daily. The show wouldn't be live but prepared in advance, edited and presented to us in a nice juicy package of information. 1 hour long weekly show would do just fine.
And yes i know that it would take more of day9's time to prepare this thing, but with such a huge of a following he could easily get some help, a whole team even.
the pros and cons i see: pros: *Would be more enjoyable to watch and would require less time to feed our hunger for starcraft analysis, what pros do etc. *Would look more professional, might get him sponsors. That way his hard work would be finally rewarded by money. *Would be a step into right direction on becoming the e-sports ambassador, if he was serious about it in #100. *People with less free time might start to watch it instead of spending that time on playing sc. *Might keep the interest of those individuals that would get bored from the show in its current format.
Cons: *The analysis wont be as thorough but i think most of us don't need it to be chewed and served to us on a silver plate, just give us food for thought and we will digest and process it ourselves. *The above con might chase off the more casual crowd, unless the shows topic of that week is aimed at that public. *As mentioned, more time and effort would be needed from day9 *Presenting and explaining the in and outs of the matter at hand in as few sentences as possible is a useful skill toi have, i don't know if day9 is capable of it. But lets not forget that the show wouldn't be live anymore so that might help. *There is always going to be a group of people that are against the change, even if its going to turn out as a positive one.
Final thoughts: I know under what circumstances this whole daily started, he had only 1 free hour per day, and instead of playing bw he decided to do dailies and share his wisdom and knowledge - an admirable choice. Doesn't mean it has to stay this way forever. I'm not saying that the show is going to loose its popularity if it continues to stay as it is, with the coming release of the game i think it's going to be quite the opposite. But that doesn't mean it can't be even better. Finally, you can always try it and go back to the current format.
note: i am going away for a week in less than an hour and i wont be able to check up on your replies until i get back, i will make a duplicate of this post as a blog entry because i have a feeling that it wont get enough views if i post it here. Its not for attention, i just want enough people to read this because i put some effort into writing this - english is not my native language.
Poll: Weekly or daily?
Weekly (75)
55%
Daily (53)
39%
Both, social life is overrated. (9)
7%
137 total votes
Your vote: Weekly or daily?
(Vote): Daily (Vote): Weekly (Vote): Both, social life is overrated.
do some bw casts! :D then i'd start watching again!
csl or korean, i dont even care! i get that a lot of the stuff day9 presents on sc2 is applicable to bw too, but its just... usually stuff i already know. some bw-specific stuff would be nice ^_^
On July 19 2010 10:31 seRapH wrote: here's an idea to keep the daily fresh!
do some bw casts! :D then i'd start watching again!
csl or korean, i dont even care! i get that a lot of the stuff day9 presents on sc2 is applicable to bw too, but its just... usually stuff i already know. some bw-specific stuff would be nice ^_^
Plus he is a mediocore sc2 player, at best - from what I heard.
Two EPIC games I just watched were Bisu v Calm in MSL, and Bisu v Jaedong in SPL. I'd be pretty interested in what Day[9] has to say about them. He might even pick a different game to cast about, and I'll end up seeing one that I wouldn't have watched normally! :D
On July 19 2010 10:30 illu wrote: If Day[9] feels like not having a life is fun, then why not?
To be honest, making it weekly is not going to improve the quality of his show.
We both don't know how long it would take to make, especially if we take in the possibility of the help of others. The first few shows will be dreadful and challenging to make but once the ball gets rolling i think it wouldn't take more than 10 hours per week.
I don't know why you think that the quality would decrease, elaborate if you can.
As for BW vs SC2, who knows if the sc2 turns out to be less deep than everyone exepcts it to be he might go back to bw, i'm sure that the current format of the daily wouldn't be an issue then as well.
I think i'd suggest making it a weekly show just for the sake of his sanity...
However, i'm sure day9 loves what he's doing... you dont make an episode 4 times a week for 150 episodes if you dont get a lot of enjoyment out of it, so i say do whatever you love, and thats what he's doing =]
On July 19 2010 10:33 DTK-m2 wrote: I'd absolutely love some more BW casts.
Two EPIC games I just watched were Bisu v Calm in MSL, and Bisu v Jaedong in SPL. I'd be pretty interested in what Day[9] has to say about them. He might even pick a different game to cast about, and I'll end up seeing one that I wouldn't have watched normally! :D
On July 19 2010 10:37 Ftrunkz wrote: I think i'd suggest making it a weekly show just for the sake of his sanity...
However, i'm sure day9 loves what he's doing... you dont make an episode 4 times a week for 150 episodes if you dont get a lot of enjoyment out of it, so i say do whatever you love, and thats what he's doing =]
Of course, however if i put him in his shoes i would feel like teaching the same subject to 5 different classes before going to the new one. And don't pick on this analogy i know its not accurate but you get the point >_>
I dunno, I don't watch it every day, but I do occasionally watch it when I don't feel like playing. He does a fairly good job of analysis, more or less picking out things that usually make sense, with the occasional personal preference. I mean, he was a badass BW player, and analysis wise, he's probably going to be right 99% of the time, at least. I don't doubt him when he makes most of his commentary.
It's nice to have in-depth coverage of a game, too, which is what the daily format provides. He watches a replay or two, and covers the replay start to finish more or less, with very little skipping. It's more a game with commentary and some advice thrown in than necessarily a training series, and that's alright with me.
Maybe when the SC2 scene is larger, you'd want a more coherent round up of major events, but that's not what the daily's designed to do anyway.
day9 should have a program on g4... i predict this in the coming decade Infact. If he becomes a huge hit following the sc2 esports scene, we shall infact write a petition to g4 or another program for us nerds. And you can take that to the BANK lol. <3 that saying
On July 19 2010 10:30 illu wrote: If Day[9] feels like not having a life is fun, then why not?
To be honest, making it weekly is not going to improve the quality of his show.
We both don't know how long it would take to make, especially if we take in the possibility of the help of others. The first few shows will be dreadful and challenging to make but once the ball gets rolling i think it wouldn't take more than 10 hours per week.
I don't know why you think that the quality would decrease, elaborate if you can.
As for BW vs SC2, who knows if the sc2 turns out to be less deep than everyone exepcts it to be he might go back to bw, i'm sure that the current format of the daily wouldn't be an issue then as well.
Your OP said it was getting repetitive. Repetitive = bad quality, I assume.
On July 19 2010 10:46 illu wrote: Your OP said it was getting repetitive. Repetitive = bad quality, I assume.
One of the reasons its repetitive is because of its current format, it wouldn't become more repetitive if we compressed it from 5 to 1 hour per week, plus the whole editing thing.
I think there's just not as much content tbh. The game isn't changing as much as it did at the beginning of beta where every week every match up would have new fads going through ladder. It's been a couple months with the same maps and people doing the same builds and less experimentation going on. Sure, new stuff are still showing up but at a much slower rate. In bw pretty much every day there's a bunch of matches in PL with many different players and styles or SL BoX series where he can analyze what the players do differently.
Also the maps have been the same forever so there's only so much analysis he could make after a few months. I remember when incineration zone came out and I watched a few episodes to keep up with the trendy/tricky things I could be abusing on ladder.
On July 19 2010 10:31 seRapH wrote: here's an idea to keep the daily fresh!
do some bw casts! :D then i'd start watching again!
csl or korean, i dont even care! i get that a lot of the stuff day9 presents on sc2 is applicable to bw too, but its just... usually stuff i already know. some bw-specific stuff would be nice ^_^
BW..? What's that?
If he did BW casts alot less people would probably watch seeing how Sc2 is the new big thing.
I think his dailies are really good TBH, I don't watch all of them, only the terran ones but regardless I think he does an awesome job entertaining and educational!
Poll: Day[9]Daily Sc2 or Bw?
Broodwar - Let's beat a dead horse! (88)
76%
Starcraft 2 - Fresh, new and exciting =D (24)
21%
I don't care / I don't watch (4)
3%
116 total votes
Your vote: Day[9]Daily Sc2 or Bw?
(Vote): Starcraft 2 - Fresh, new and exciting =D (Vote): Broodwar - Let's beat a dead horse! (Vote): I don't care / I don't watch
I think he should do it on TvZ Bio ghost build, snipe!
I think it's fine the way it is. After all, not only is he casting every day, but...
- King of the Beta tournament - SC2 Countdown Release Party - college stuff - other RL we don't know about that he deals with (maybe secret agent stuff)
I don't think he's burning out. That guy's got an incredible drive for esports and has great analysis in each daily.
You should have included "a little bit of both" in that poll. I think i make a poll in my OP as well... people like polls its easy and not as taxing as typing...stuff.
edit: I think im going to bump this after i get back, in europe daytime, i hope it isn't against the rules >_> Unless i still see this on the first page in 1week... which would be awesome.
On July 19 2010 10:31 seRapH wrote: here's an idea to keep the daily fresh!
do some bw casts! :D then i'd start watching again!
csl or korean, i dont even care! i get that a lot of the stuff day9 presents on sc2 is applicable to bw too, but its just... usually stuff i already know. some bw-specific stuff would be nice ^_^
BW..? What's that?
If he did BW casts alot less people would probably watch seeing how Sc2 is the new big thing.
I think his dailies are really good TBH, I don't watch all of them, only the terran ones but regardless I think he does an awesome job entertaining and educational!
I think he should do it on TvZ Bio ghost build, snipe!
BW is changing. It is in no way beating a dead horse. If anything, I think sc2 is closer to being a "dead horse" than BW. you realize that ZvZ may be on the brink of a complete revolution? you realize that TvZ is still going changing? that PvZ is starting to breathe again? that flash's TvP isn't completely unbeatable?
I feel like he absolutely loves what he does, and will cast and commentate as much as he possibly can because SC is such a big part of his life. I don't mind the daily format at all, it's nice to have something SC related to watch everyday at a reasonable hour if I can't watch the PL games.
In terms of a weekly thing, I think if JP would continue doing his SotG casts on a weekly basis with a rotating guest list, we would get a great overview of the SC scene from a number of sources once a week. Just a thought
On July 19 2010 10:31 seRapH wrote: here's an idea to keep the daily fresh!
do some bw casts! :D then i'd start watching again!
csl or korean, i dont even care! i get that a lot of the stuff day9 presents on sc2 is applicable to bw too, but its just... usually stuff i already know. some bw-specific stuff would be nice ^_^
BW..? What's that?
If he did BW casts alot less people would probably watch seeing how Sc2 is the new big thing.
I think his dailies are really good TBH, I don't watch all of them, only the terran ones but regardless I think he does an awesome job entertaining and educational!
I think he should do it on TvZ Bio ghost build, snipe!
BW is changing. It is in no way beating a dead horse. If anything, I think sc2 is closer to being a "dead horse" than BW. you realize that ZvZ may be on the brink of a complete revolution? you realize that TvZ is still going changing? that PvZ is starting to breathe again? that flash's TvP isn't completely unbeatable?
so yeah. it's changing. in no way a dead horse.
BW's not a dead horse, but let's face it, it's not going to get any bigger than what it is now. It'll still be big in South Korea but it's run its course for the rest of the world. Sure, there's always going to be players to find on ICCUP but the chance that a big influx of new players on the foreign BW scene is slim to none.
SC2 might not be the all time awesome-ness that is the original BW but it's still a good game and a much better chance for esports to thrive in the western world.
A daily show is bound to not be super entertaining and important everyday, but I think it's a major step forward for esports to have an English daily show. I appreciate it very much, and in my view people who don't just do not evaluate all the positive implications this has.
One example: a completely new player to RTS gets a LIVE personal presentation whenever he decides to poke around with this community. I hope Day9's daily ends up on mainstream TV.
Possible improvement: Ratings and community-rated summaries per show. This way if you are experienced player, you don't need to watch every day in order not to miss something truly important -- those important shows will get super high ratings for you to notice them.
I end up watching most of his casts, though not too many of them live.
I have to agree that I enjoyed the daily much more when it was focused on broodwar. Not really sure why. I've played the beta like crazy and still find the casts insightful...I guess I just find bw more entertaining as a spectator (at the moment at least).
Is anyone else dying to see him do an analysis on the the recent late-game ZvZs in bw. I know I am.
i pretty much stopped watching once he went to SC2 fulltime (and especially once phase 1 ended and he decided to just watch old replays for a month instead of any new BW VODs ). im not saying i necessarily want him to go back to BW, only that he's gone to SC2 now and so i dont watch the show any more. maybe its just that the level of skill is so much lower that I dont care, maybe i just got day9'd out (i watched like EVERY show for a few months straight lol and kinda got bored/tired of the show maybe). i dont think i'd even get anything out of him going back to BW as i feel he doesnt have much else left to teach me lol.
also i just get really fucking pissed whenever any random fucking show he does about SC2 gets like 2-3 times more views than most proleague streams lol. oh how i rage....
On July 19 2010 10:31 seRapH wrote: here's an idea to keep the daily fresh!
do some bw casts! :D then i'd start watching again!
csl or korean, i dont even care! i get that a lot of the stuff day9 presents on sc2 is applicable to bw too, but its just... usually stuff i already know. some bw-specific stuff would be nice ^_^
I really would like Day 9 to go back to sc1, or at least have a mix of sc1 and sc2 casts. But with the amount of views he gets from sc2... i doubt he will change D:
On July 19 2010 12:07 DrivE wrote: I really would like Day 9 to go back to sc1, or at least have a mix of sc1 and sc2 casts. But with the amount of views he gets from sc2... i doubt he will change D:
If he had a schedule (BW these days of the week, SC2 those days of the week) he might end up with more views.
I disagree that the quality of the show is degrading. He takes the time to pause and break down what's going on so that new players can comprehend it a lot easier.
It's his show, I don't think this poll should influence how he does it. I like it the way it is.
i havent watched the show other than a few odd times since he switched to sc2, but judging from the OP, i think the problem is that you are watching too many of them, not that he is doing too many of them. Of course, i wouldnt mind him doing more bw ones tho
I think a better judge of whether he should go weekly or not is the number of viewers. Every night theres at least 2k people watch. If you are having issue with that, don't suggest a change when the vast majority of viewers are enjoying it thoroughly.
On July 19 2010 10:31 seRapH wrote: here's an idea to keep the daily fresh!
do some bw casts! :D then i'd start watching again!
csl or korean, i dont even care! i get that a lot of the stuff day9 presents on sc2 is applicable to bw too, but its just... usually stuff i already know. some bw-specific stuff would be nice ^_^
BW..? What's that?
If he did BW casts alot less people would probably watch seeing how Sc2 is the new big thing.
I think his dailies are really good TBH, I don't watch all of them, only the terran ones but regardless I think he does an awesome job entertaining and educational!
I think he should do it on TvZ Bio ghost build, snipe!
BW is changing. It is in no way beating a dead horse. If anything, I think sc2 is closer to being a "dead horse" than BW. you realize that ZvZ may be on the brink of a complete revolution? you realize that TvZ is still going changing? that PvZ is starting to breathe again? that flash's TvP isn't completely unbeatable?
so yeah. it's changing. in no way a dead horse.
BW's not a dead horse, but let's face it, it's not going to get any bigger than what it is now. It'll still be big in South Korea but it's run its course for the rest of the world. Sure, there's always going to be players to find on ICCUP but the chance that a big influx of new players on the foreign BW scene is slim to none.
SC2 might not be the all time awesome-ness that is the original BW but it's still a good game and a much better chance for esports to thrive in the western world.
Even though a games better we should not play it because the other game is newer and bigger. Thats so shallow of you X_X.
On topic, I feel like ever since Day9 switched to sc2 it went from insightful analysis to your average platinum player's knowledge. There really is less analysis about the map, expansion timing, army movement, etc etc and more of him going "so this unit is nice for this. If ur gonna bust down a terran wall make units appropriate for that". I kinda stopped watching day9 daily altogether now
On July 19 2010 12:28 Ronald_McD wrote: I disagree that the quality of the show is degrading. He takes the time to pause and break down what's going on so that new players can comprehend it a lot easier.
It's his show, I don't think this poll should influence how he does it. I like it the way it is.
he's doing what makes him happy, and what he does makes sc2 really accessible to new players. it's all part of his e-sports goal, and he's doing a pretty good job of it. i'm curious to see what his viewer numbers will look like once the game comes out...
On July 19 2010 12:44 Kennigit wrote: I think a better judge of whether he should go weekly or not is the number of viewers. Every night theres at least 2k people watch. If you are having issue with that, don't suggest a change when the vast majority of viewers are enjoying it thoroughly.
Right but the people commenting here are assumed to be the viewers.
I think its quite clear that those that frequent blog section of tl.net are all old school ie vastly more likely to prefer BW than those who frequent other sections of tl
On July 19 2010 12:07 DrivE wrote: I really would like Day 9 to go back to sc1, or at least have a mix of sc1 and sc2 casts. But with the amount of views he gets from sc2... i doubt he will change D:
If he had a schedule (BW these days of the week, SC2 those days of the week) he might end up with more views.
He might end up with less views actually, I think the majority of his viewers are mostly pure SC2 players (never played SC1), if he had BW days those pure SC2 players won't tune in those days so his viewership will probably be much lower. I too wish he would do some BW casts again.
On July 19 2010 12:07 DrivE wrote: I really would like Day 9 to go back to sc1, or at least have a mix of sc1 and sc2 casts. But with the amount of views he gets from sc2... i doubt he will change D:
If he had a schedule (BW these days of the week, SC2 those days of the week) he might end up with more views.
He might end up with less views actually, I think the majority of his viewers are mostly pure SC2 players (never played SC1), if he had BW days those pure SC2 players won't tune in those days so his viewership will probably be much lower. I too wish he would do some BW casts again.
Yea if u look at some of the questions that people ask him now....they're almost exclusively pure sc2 noobs (1 guy asked what time to build your first pylon...yes thats right)
Personally, I would love it if Day9 did more BW shows. However, that really shouldn't influence his decision in any way. It's his show, and he should run it how he wants. To believe that we know better and demand this or that seems arrogant to me. =/
Day[9] used to do some BW mixed in with SC2. He doesn't that anymore unfortunately and is a prime reason why I stopped watching some of the recent ones.
As el presidente oficial del club de admiradores day9 no oficial, I gotta say a weekly or bi-weekly show might be a pretty good idea. I agree his casting quality has steadily decreased since the 120ish area. He's a pretty cool dude, and some free time would be good for him and his casts.
On July 19 2010 12:44 Kennigit wrote: I think a better judge of whether he should go weekly or not is the number of viewers. Every night theres at least 2k people watch. If you are having issue with that, don't suggest a change when the vast majority of viewers are enjoying it thoroughly.
I think it's awesome that he's still at this honestly. I don't watch, because Sc2 doesn't interest me enough to spend an hour on it every day, but I have to give him a ton of credit. I think he singlehandedly brings up the level of whichever scene he focuses on.
And honestly it's his show, and he can do what he wants it with it, and if new viewers come to him, then that's fine for him.
On July 19 2010 10:33 DTK-m2 wrote: I'd absolutely love some more BW casts.
Two EPIC games I just watched were Bisu v Calm in MSL, and Bisu v Jaedong in SPL. I'd be pretty interested in what Day[9] has to say about them. He might even pick a different game to cast about, and I'll end up seeing one that I wouldn't have watched normally! :D
Consider this : Korean SC BW skill level is way up higher then the rest of the world. Same can't be fully said for SC2 WoL. At least not yet. Day[9] is trying to popularize e-sports and that's why he's doing so many SC2 WoL casts recently. Because it has a chance of becoming a WORLD phenomenon. I know SC BW is too a world-wide game, but we all mainly feed ourselves from korean progamers, while in SC2 WoL, we're watching people like IdrA, TLO, HuK, Dimaga, White-Ra and so on. How awesome is that ?
On July 19 2010 14:45 FuRong wrote: Nobody says you have to watch it every day.
Also, Day[9] Daily has a better ring to it than Day[9] Weekly...
The argument OP is proposing is not that he doesnt want to see day[9] every day, rather that day[9] having to cast every day makes some portions of his cast repetitive, and perhaps a weekly show would be of a higher quality since he'd have a week to pick replays and think about what to say. I dont agree though, I think whether it was weekly, monthly, hourly, day[9] would still produce the same content. Hes trying to help a way larger audience improve now, and a good amount of them probably never played BW so they're like gold/plat/low diamond. Having the points he makes hammered into them will make them much better players.
I think it should be bi-weekly if no interesting stuff is happening. What is important that tourneys like OSL, MSL and PL are covered and analyzed asap, and one show a week might be too little time to cover all these things.
Yeah, I agree. After all, I'm sure everyone who's ever played starcraft or is ever going to play starcraft to has watched all of his daily's back to number 1. Everyone has gotten EVERYTHING they could from him. Not to mention that the game mechanics will never change, nor the metagame.
New analysis will never be helpful.
/sarcasm
Point is, new, mediocre and rising players can find a lot of interesting things in his daily's. I know i can, and do.
I watch them whenever possible and I have never gotten bored with his analysis. They might be a bit repetitive at the time, but who cares? It just reinforces what he has already said, and makes the information that much more valuable. I know that since Day[9] has started doing his dailies and pounding in this information into every cast I actually pay attention to it more.
Weekly IMO. I love watching Day[9], but I miss it almost every day because of work, and there are just so many I've given up watching the VODs. Live is more exciting anyway.
I still watch it as often as I can. Hell half the time I'm multi tasking and just enjoying the jokes. Sure bits may be repetititve but... what do you expect? If you don't macro well you are likely going to lose. If you're always staring at battles... well then... The mini map... I love it. I just hope the poor guy doesn't get burned out T_T.
That all said. I would love some BW. His BW casts felt like you were being let into a secret club. Right now I'm relying on Moletrap to keep me up to date on BW.
Like Kennigit said... the dailies are fine... 2-3k viewers a night and that's only counting the people who watch it live (theres even more that watch it later via his archived episodes)... as you can clearly see, there is a lot of demand.
Yeah I think if its up to him. If he can take it and has fun. What his viewership trends are like, versus what he feels is worth his time etc
Personally due to circumstance, I dont watch it daily, but I love what I do see. Too much to catch up on though. Maybe someone needs to put like dvd-chapters of funny moments or top topics. :D Or maybe a podcast, thats easier to work into your daily routine.
I found his casts to be getting boring. Perhaps this is caused (in part) by the quality of the games he was/is commenting. Like, what games are going to be the best and most instructive to watch? BW produces games like Jaedong vs Yell0w or Flash vs Effort, SC2 gives us Artosis flopping about with Banelings for most of the game.
I enjoy his analysis. I may not watch them all live, but eventually I watch them all. I enjoy watching replays; and even if Day's show reiterates a lot of concepts, it's not necessarily a bad thing to have these points reinforced. If I am going to watch replays anyways, why not do so with Day's insight added. I can use his thoughts and opinions against my own to establish conclusions that work well for me.
i watch it for day9s daily battle with obesity! The sc2 is just a bonus. I think that things like sotg or the tl podcasts i look forward to alot more cos thats where the real discussion is and day9 is more hilarious with company
Anyways day has said before that he really does the shows for himself. To keep himself aware of what new things that are happening since he has less time to play. Hence why so many replays are unwatched. Im guessing that the scbw dailies were more for the communities enjoyment since he was already at a level where he knows the game mucch much better than his viewers. And if hes seen the bw game already he can do better commentary and analysis.
I hope he does more bw stuff and i wouldnt mind if he cut down to 3 eps a week with at least 3 demos an episode. And an scbw game night every now and then. you can tell that alot of the exhibition casting is catching up on him and i would rather him just slow down a bit then drag his panda eyed "got up at 4am to cast stuff" face to the webcam. The longer shows were his better ones. other good parts of shows are when he calls up the players to ask what made them chooses their plays.
Either ways is still a good show! Gonna go horde some more vods tto wathc on a rainy day now
EPT
