With the release of SC2 and the expected salles of 4 to 6 million copies after launch, I expect the number of TL.net users to increase drastically in few months after the release. (google: starcraft 2 expected sales)
Threads are going to be even more crowded. Its already crowded.
Examples:
"Patch 12 - Changes and Discussion" thread have 78 pages.
"Over-nerfed: Why Zerg dominated Korea" written few hours ago have 6 pages.
"Match-Fixing Scandal - Conclusion" 32 pages.
so, what is the big deal?
interesting posts on those threads are hidden over hundreds of useless or even bad posts and if you reply to someone, your reply will be so far away that the chances of the guy answering you is lowered. Good posts are lost in the middle of a thread.
a lot of people cussing each other or saying something already said by someone else or even stupid posts, like people asking if baby or bisu and others players are involved when they are obviously not if you read everything.
the big problem is after the SC2 release!
so, its time to think and be prepared for it.
http://arenajunkies.com is the best site for WoW PvP(player vs player). They have a system where only Gladiators can post and a special forum where anyone can post. Gladiators are the higher ranked players in the WoW arena system.
TL.net could or should start doing something similar to it.
I could really understand and agree if I don't have posting privilegies anymore, to make TL.net posting better.
I have the same privilegies than Idra, artosis, chill, day9, tasteless, etc., to post!! Isn't it weird? I'm a nobody! If a thug create a new account he will also have the same privilegies!
Those people can also say something wrong, but their overall posting regarding SC is better than mine. (Be humble and admit that)
Yes, It can lead to some kind of biased and stupid elitism, but something must be done or things are going to be really messy.
Of course that it would require a lot of work from the programmers to change the posting system, so idk how viable it is and if the admins think that this is that big of a problem, so, since we don't have that system, its time for us, ordinary users, to think even more before posting.
Are you really bringing something to the thread? What you want to post is already said by someone else? I started to think about it and I'm trying to not post if its some kind of an useless post. Everyone commit mistakes and/or post crap sometimes, but if we educate ourselves, general posting will be better.
Another thing that just came to my mind is if we have some kind of pontuation, where people can give you a +1 or -1 in your posts and if you get lower than X points you can't post.
well, its not my intention to give suggestions, just wanted to alert and deal about the number of users after the SC2 release.
i tend to ignore people that have less than 1000 posts. i read their words, but don't take anything they say seriously, with exceptions for forum stars and people that have been consistently good posters.
but why is it weird that you have the same posting privileges as others? i admit i look forward to incontrol or rekrul replies depending on the type of thread it is. but if you have good ideas and interesting opinions, you deserve to be heard. also, democracy is not necessary a good thing.
in terms of more work involved, regular users are relatively unaffected, it's just the admins that have to clean up the forums of all the bad threads made by new users.
so, instead of looking for 1000+ users posts, all posts in a thread are going to be interesting for you and admins won't have to clean up like they do.
Imo, having 78+ pages in a patch thread is madness, chaos. It will be worse after SC2 release thou.
Or alternative: the mods may become more strict and start banning people not only for offtopic or shitty posts but also for any posts that only take space and don't contribute to the discussion. The posts themselves may be deleted (or collapsed a la youtube spam posts) so they don't clutter the discussion.
A problem arises for posts that aren't necessarily shitty but simply too many (due to the large TL.net population) so you get lost and won't be able to see the most valuable ones. So a +1/-1 rating for an individual post may be a good idea. And when you open the thread you may filter only the posts with rating above +x.. or sort the posts by rating.
However IMO the TL.net population boom will not last forever. It is happening now and will happen when the game is released but in time only the true SC fans will still be visiting TL. All the weeds we are seeing in the SC2 forum at the moment will hopefully be out in a couple of years.
EDIT:
On May 17 2010 19:57 lowbright wrote: i tend to ignore people that have less than 1000 posts. i read their words, but don't take anything they say seriously, with exceptions for forum stars and people that have been consistently good posters.
but why is it weird that you have the same posting privileges as others? i admit i look forward to incontrol or rekrul replies depending on the type of thread it is. but if you have good ideas and interesting opinions, you deserve to be heard. also, democracy is not necessary a good thing.
in terms of more work involved, regular users are relatively unaffected, it's just the admins that have to clean up the forums of all the bad threads made by new users.
There is one major problem with this right now. I constantly see people with shitload of posts that joined in 2010. The post count doesn't say too much anymore. There are simply too many overexcited kids that spam all over the place and gain bigger post count than many quality posters. It'd be a good idea if the join date was visible on top of your post too besides the post count.
While you bring up valid points, you have also have to take into consideration that not every newbie is dumb and that not every newbie just spews out bullshit.
Just because some people have low post counts doesn't mean that their points aren't valid. They should have every right to chime in.
Plus, post count isn't indicative of anything. I have like 8000 useless posts on this account.
There's nothing better at fostering good quality posting than excellent moderation, which is exactly what we have at TL.
Having a thumbs up/down system is bad because the majority isn't always right. What I love about TL is that you are respected for the posts you make and everyone has the same chance to make a name for themselves. I think any system where some people have privileges that others don't leads to segregation and animosity.
All of the best forums I've ever visited have had mods that care about the site, spend a lot of time moderating and are intelligent. I wouldn't have it any other way.
Pretend Gladiators are TL staff members for a second. I'd be willing to bet theres a staff board where only they can post just like on that forum, so no, I highly doubt you have the same privileges as any of the staff members. You're basically saying everyone on TL now should be a member of some supposed new 'ranking system' where they all have privileges above what new members will receive upon joining?
I'd probably be considered one of these 'new members' and I can see how this is a bad idea. Newer members may be a lot more intelligent than half the members in your new ranking system yet won't be able to share their thoughts because they haven't been around for long enough. Nobody would stick around and you wouldn't see any new faces around here..
Dude, there's a much much simpler solution. Let Rekrul out of his cage. Seriously, that's all that is needed. I can promise you that by the end of week 1 this forum would be classified as "dead"
So you basically want to have "specialists"? Like Ret, NonY Idra Nazgul and FA would get some kind of title such as "SC2 pro" or "SC2 specialist"? Like they have on GameReplays.org? Your idea of "reputation" is more likely to get implemented than the "specialist" thing, but again, I wouldn't count on it. People would get +1 rep for stupid crap like posting 1st the general opinion of the public on a topic. Someone would post "Z is OP cuz on asia koreanzz play Z and own teh laddz0r" and 50 to 100 newbs would come in and +1 rep him, and of course the opposite is also true: someone states the sad truth such as "stfu copper/bronze fags, don't try to balance the game based on your biased and nooby experiences" and he'd immediately get -100 rep every minute -.- for being right.
IMO that won't work on this site. For one, the mods are trying to promote equality between veterans and newbies, and the real noobs that try to push their point across that is clearly wrong, get warned and banned. And my second point is: This would require a complete overhaul of this forum. It would have to be modernized, enhanced and I don't think the coders would be happy about that.
The problem that I see with your system is that there are way more people who would just -1 people for the hell of it than ones who would actually give a thoughtful rating.
I like that special forum idea though. A forum where only the "Gladiators" can lounge by themselves could be nice.
You shouldn't look to post counts for quality. Anyone can increase their post count rapidly these days simply by hanging out in LR threads. I also don't like the + or - simply because a lot of people will blindly plus one popular people (or worst just plan out minus one because they don't share your views no matter if you're right or wrong).
Let the mods do their job, I am confident that when the time comes they will be able to handle the situation.
On May 17 2010 20:20 Latham wrote: Dude, there's a much much simpler solution. Let Rekrul out of his cage. Seriously, that's all that is needed. I can promise you that by the end of week 1 this forum would be classified as "dead"
Yeah they haven't even let him out yet. Number of bans will spike like crazy, people will either get the message and shape up or leave.
@ Hyde, Yeah I have a feeling they will let him out on the 27th of July, when SC2 will be released. IMO only him and Haji and maybe Manlyfesto7 would be able to deal with the tides of noobs that will be hitting the site in the days to come after release.
Oh and we already have "private" forums on this site. Like MiR forum which stands for Men in Red. + Show Spoiler +
I don't like Karma systems. Making a strategy subforum for people with >xxxx platinum rating would make more sense in my opinion, but that won't deter from newsposts etc. having a huge amount of posts.
I always remember Lyriene with his nice first post
Post count doesn't mean everything (or I'll be like wtf), I've seen plenty of posters with low post counts who make superb analysis and amazing comments.
Well, there's going to be more people so automatically there's going to be more trash. But there's also going to be more of the good stuff. We might just need more mods to handle it all.
Agree with the intention, probably disagree with the methods, but this deserves serious consideration. Perhaps something like the youtube comment system where you can mark individual comments thumbs up or down? And comments that get thumbed down a lot get hidden? (or even temp banned? )
Either way, maybe start a topic under Website Feedback? I personally wouldn't mind a section just for high rep players to talk. Then i dont have to read through all this junk just for a few grains of wisdom.
the thing is that people that have low post counts and are good contributors are the obvious exception, rather than the rule.
many newer users spam 4chan nonsense or other internet garbage like inb4 ban or some sort of shitty image macro. of course, they usually get a warning or a ban, but this is a retroactive action; a lot of people don't seem to take the ten commandments seriously at all.
also if i understand how the upvote system (like the one on reddit), "good" posts get moved to the top and "bad" posts get moved to the bottom. but it's a really subjective thing, based on people's opinions. not every quality post gets recognition and if i'm not mistaken, this kind of system favors people who posted earlier and people who post late might have their good post ignored. it could also unfairly favor people that are known and popular, even if their post is not worthy of the upvotes.
I mean, if only people with thousands of posts should be listened to, then there wouldn't be forum stars like aers, Lyriene, MDT, with like sub 500 posts I believe. That wouldn't even be enough to post in the "500 posts for a Beta Key" thread. I mean, I have thousands of posts because I frequent LR threads a ton, but I can assure you many of my posts are not "quality." If you want quality, go look for Trozz.
Also Lyriene is cute :3
Also lol.
On May 17 2010 20:52 disco wrote: Well, there's going to be more people so automatically there's going to be more trash. But there's also going to be more of the good stuff. We might just need more mods to handle it all.
that feels like a really elitist designation to me though. we have freedom of speech to promote the sharing of ideas and to allow every voice to be heard. a lot of posts can be seen to be unnecessary or bad, it's not like every post you make will be some ridiculously insightful and thoughtful response (unless you're Ver or fyre_dragon or someone like that). if you think somethings funny, posting a simple haha as an acknowledgment of the person's contribution isn't necessarily a bad thing, small acknowledgments like that are what make human interactions more interesting. we're not writing a graduate thesis, we're just a bunch of geeks that happen to be sharing our thoughts on a forum together. i can see what motivated you to make this suggestion and why you would be interested in it; the principle is admirable i suppose, but i feel like there's something wrong with it. it's hard to articulate since i'm pretty tired right now but hopefully i will be able to explain myself better after i take my last exam and finally get some slep.
The only big downside with lots and lots of members is that if you like me like to read the entire thread before posting it gets kinda hard if you stumble upon the thread 15pages into the discussion. And since I assume alot of people do not read more than the op and possibly the last page the threads can catch the youtube comments disease. Fortunately we have top notch moderation to help with that part.
WCR had a forum that only allowed certain veterans to post in it (like a strat guide collection/discussion) that had more views than their other forums.
On May 17 2010 21:48 Eatme wrote: The only big downside with lots and lots of members is that if you like me like to read the entire thread before posting it gets kinda hard if you stumble upon the thread 15pages into the discussion. And since I assume alot of people do not read more than the op and possibly the last page the threads can catch the youtube comments disease. Fortunately we have top notch moderation to help with that part.
haha this reminds me of that creepiest starcraft player on facebook thread
I think it's up to the user to find when threads are full of crap or whether or not they have insightful analysis. This is one of the main reasons I stopped looking at the SC2 Strategy forums, because it occurred to me that most people on the strategy forums didn't know what they were talking about and drawing conclusions from thin air.
Ultimately, if you don't want to sift through pages of information, don't. Because in all honesty, taking the time to try to find valuable posts in a 76 page thread, might be a little difficult to do.
I know what you mean i usually scroll through threads and only read the nickname most of the time to read what important people have to say,but i think this will get better a few after sc2 is released.
I think post count is overrated as well. I could easily have thousands of posts by now if I spammed 20 posts a day since I joined. Also, a large majority of posts are 1-liners that really don't contribute much to the discussion. Just look at this post. Here I am vomiting my opinion onto a blog where nobody actually cares.
EPT
