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I'm almost getting fed up watching the majority of these tourneys with platinum only players. There is the occasional entertaining series with certain players (cookie for first person to reply "not all games are boring"), but there are also so many matches that are just so boring to watch. There's virtually no early game aggression from these players save for helion economy harass from terrans, which basically boils down to "no defense, attack", "defense, retreat", and then spend the next 20 minutes expanding and building up forces with almost no confrontation between the players.
What ever happened to timing attacks? Drops? Is it that SC2 itself prevents originality in playstyle? Or do these players just play it safe in order to just win?
I applaud the commentators for trying their best with these matches ... but man, an open plea to the players: think about it, what's really on the line for you in these tourneys? If you lose, you lose some of your pride/ego? Is that really important to you at your level of play?
Believe me, its better to lose a match with some weird baller strat then just get outmacroed in a 20-30 minute sludge fest. *cough*free hiya*cough*
/2cents
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these players just play it safe in order to just win
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no one's good yet. plat players are no exception.
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just give it time, its just beta, i dont really think u expect every1 to be unreal and pulling super shit out there ass do u?
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Well, I can only talk about Protoss here, but Protoss drops aren't very good. I've seen some people praise the colossus drop, but personally I think it sucks. Once your opponent brings some units in the base to defend, you can only drop the colossus for a second before you have to pick it up, which means it doesn't get to sweep it's beam and it winds up doing 15 damage to something. That means you have to hit a drone, probe or SCV three times in order to kill it, which makes it a big risk for usually little reward.
The immortal drops are fun, but once again, I think it's just something that can be done, and can be effective, which is pretty bad when it's just good enough for it to be considered a possibility. As for timing attacks, I don't know what you have been watching, but i find a lot of SC2 is timing attacks, you hit a number of colossus or immortal and push before they begin to get the proper units to deal with your tech. Almost all my 1v1 games (granted they aren't versus the best players) are about timing attacks. To be honest, I enjoy watching SCII games more than SCI games, but then again I usually only pay attention to the games with Protoss, which are usually exciting because they utilize a lot of spells.
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Austin10833 Posts
I've seen plenty of games with early aggression. Even in the TL:I today, many players used some builds that were really nice and aggressive, including early hellion/marauder pushes, fast immortal drops, roach burrow rushes.
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I've seen some drops in TvT laddering through plat that leads me to believe that dropping in that match up might catch on eventually. But, like you said, these players just want to win and don't want to lose any significant amount of units trying to pull off fancy tactics that might end up costing them the game. Eventually players will probably get good enough to feel comfortable pulling off fancy stuff.
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On the other hand, pvt is replete with void way rushes, immortal rushes, 4 gate rushes. And for quite almost every terran was reaper rushing, and too many terrans are just hoping their banshee harass wins the game.
The boring macro complaint probably has more to do with zerg and zerg heavy brackets.
I want to see people transition into real midgames instead of just losing when over investment to harass fails.
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First of all, players are good right now. Some strategies might not be fully optimized, but you had better believe the top players are working hard at getting things perfect. And due to the idea that SC2 is the next big thing, of course they're considering every tournament as high stakes right now. People are getting contracts with e-sports teams already, you know.
But I do agree, the games are boring, and it's extremely hard to tell what the skill differential is between each player due to the ease of the macro mechanics. Most of the out-of-the-ordinary games seem more exploitative than anything, especially since most strategy oriented play is incredibly hit or miss (partly due to how much more difficult scouting can be early on).
The rush distances on maps, combined with the aggressor usually coming out ahead in most situations, plays a large part in why most games bore me, personally. It forces players to mass units in preparation for 1-2 battles that will wholly decide the outcome of the game. The battles themselves are also not very interesting, because micro in-battle is either so easy anyone can do it, or actually detrimental due to how fast units fire at and kill each other.
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On May 09 2010 17:18 QibingZero wrote:
First of all, players are good right now. Some strategies might not be fully optimized, but you had better believe the top players are working hard at getting things perfect. And due to the idea that SC2 is the next big thing, of course they're considering every tournament as high stakes right now. People are getting contracts with e-sports teams already, you know.
But I do agree, the games are boring, and it's extremely hard to tell what the skill differential is between each player due to the ease of the macro mechanics. Most of the out-of-the-ordinary games seem more exploitative than anything, especially since most strategy oriented play is incredibly hit or miss (partly due to how much more difficult scouting can be early on).
The rush distances on maps, combined with the aggressor usually coming out ahead in most situations, plays a large part in why most games bore me, personally. It forces players to mass units in preparation for 1-2 battles that will wholly decide the outcome of the game. The battles themselves are also not very interesting, because micro in-battle is either so easy anyone can do it, or actually detrimental due to how fast units fire at and kill each other.
pretty much hit the nail on the head.
There is a lot of work to be done to make SC2 more exciting.
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I feel that the games are a tad on the "get on with it, already" side. The passive macro game or chessy all-in games are really because of the current map pool which, imo, has the defining characteristic of having ridiculously short rush distances. Once map publishing goes up and some of the old Brood War maps start to be used for tournaments, the game dynamic will probably change quite a bit.
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On May 09 2010 16:24 Oodama wrote:
just give it time, its just beta, i dont really think u expect every1 to be unreal and pulling super shit out there ass do u?
Almost this. Yeah, some players are genuinely good already, but you have to stop trying to compare it to the original SC. That had over a decade to develop into what we all know and love... This has had a few months of beta.
Additionally, those of you whining when you don't even have a beta key, and I'm sure there are some of you, should really just keep hush hush. Play it before you knock it.
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On May 09 2010 16:09 a176 wrote:
I'm almost getting fed up watching the majority of these tourneys with platinum only players.
You'd prefer to watch bronze/silver players duking it out for fame and glory?
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dude it's beta. no one knows how to play yet. the people on top are simply the people who suck the least
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Have you seen QXC's vZ and thor drop//harass?
If not...thats definitely a winner !
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except that people were pulling fancy moves//strats with SC1 as soon as released....
just saying...
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On May 09 2010 18:03 MutaDoom wrote:Show nested quote +On May 09 2010 16:24 Oodama wrote:
just give it time, its just beta, i dont really think u expect every1 to be unreal and pulling super shit out there ass do u? Almost this. Yeah, some players are genuinely good already, but you have to stop trying to compare it to the original SC. That had over a decade to develop into what we all know and love... This has had a few months of beta. Additionally, those of you whining when you don't even have a beta key, and I'm sure there are some of you, should really just keep hush hush. Play it before you knock it.
Well...its not like Boxer was doing all kinds of cool stuff in 2000 when it was only 1 year since BW was released and people didn't know shit about RTS
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My friend was watching TLI yesterday and complaining about this. He's new to SC2 and trying to get into it but finds it so boring to watch compared to BW. I definitely agree. While the way the players play is DEFINITELY correct, there really isn't much excitement. The one game I found exciting yesterday was game 2 of Louder vs Slush, constant battles with amazing micro from Louder allowing him to win some HUGELY lopsided fights.
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game 2 of louder vs slush was amazing, and while i still prefer watching broodwar to starcraft2 you should keep in mind many broodwar games of professionals in korea can be pretty damn boring too. I think it's just that you only remember the really good ones from a really HUGE number of games and then try to compare it to 100% of the sc2 games being played. They can't all be gems.
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EPT
