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On November 03 2009 04:46 Xenocide_Knight wrote:Show nested quote +On November 02 2009 17:47 psion0011 wrote:On November 02 2009 17:36 Shauni wrote:
Wow Mora I'm so relieved I'm not your son. I'm so tired of all the talk about respect, most of you North Americans seem to sing in tune about this for some reason.
All people deserve equal respect until they are proven otherwise. Regardless of social position (parenting, job, lifestyle, sexuality, anything). You do not deserve more respect because you successfully moved out from home earlier than he did. A fire-fighter doesn't deserve extra respect because he is saving lives.
He doesn't respect his dad? Who the hell are you to judge? Respect has nothing to do with slaving for your parent or doing what he wants you to do. It'd be one thing if he didn't do the laundry out of dislike for the dad, but it doesn't sound like that at all. I believe the parent-child bond is (or should be) deep enough not to get swayed by useless arguments about daily chores. "Laundry? FUCK YOU DAD I'M NOT YOUR SLAVE oh yeah where's my dinner? oh btw thanks for letting me live here for free lol" Letting you? A parent makes an unspoken pact to shelter and provide for offspring for nothing in return when they have kids. Oh congrats dad, you're doing what you agreed to do when you conceived me.
yes. when they have kids. you cease being a kid at 15. after that it's chore and labour baby! pull out that whip!
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On November 02 2009 15:32 Manifesto7 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 02 2009 13:24 Xenocide_Knight wrote:On November 02 2009 13:14 lvatural wrote:On November 02 2009 12:35 Liquid`Drone wrote:On November 02 2009 11:50 JeeJee wrote:On November 02 2009 11:45 Liquid`Drone wrote:
as for the whole "respect your dad because he is your dad", that's a bunch of bullshit, especially when you are 22 years old. if your dad is a jackass, he doesnt deserve your respect. seriously? i don't care how much of an asshole my father is, him providing for me when i was fucking useless to the world is enough to earn my respect and forget any of his little faults for pretty much ever, whether i'm living alone or with him (especially moreso in the latter case) im not saying you shouldnt respect your father if he has some tiny flaws or whatever, but if he's a complete jackass? what if he beats your mom? all im saying is that fatherhood doesn't equal respect by default.. a good dad obviously deserves it, and im not saying op's dad is a bad father or not worthy of respect. just that it's not some kind of default state, respect needs to be earned even for a parent. Disagree. The default state given to your father is respect (of course this extends to the mother as well). Simply put, they're the reason you are here today. They housed, fed, taught, etc.. you for the beginning portion of your life. This in it of itself simply establishes lifetime respect. However, I do believe there are EXCEPTIONS to this, for example beating you or your mom for the hell of it or dumping you in a ditch when you were 9, that would not warrant this respect anymore. But these are only in extreme and narrow cases. A father being a complete jackass, in my opinion, doesn't fit into this category and should still be respected by his kids. Sure, your take on earning respect is reasonable when applied towards unrelated third parties; however, I think a father/mother should not be lumped in the same category. Disagree Respect is ALWAYS earned. no exceptions, parent or not. Same reasoning as you. They are the reason you are here today. YOU didn't choose to have parents or be born, THEY chose to have a child which they KNEW they would have to provide for for years and years. I don't see how that enables automatic respect Disagree. Respect is often the default position due to profession, station, or relationship. If you walk into a new class with a professor, you start out with an assumption of respect for him and his knowledge, because of his position. His actions can reinforce or counter that initial respect, but it is there to begin with. Same goes for when you take a lesson from a martial artist, when you meet a priest, or when you meet a president. The ability to attain a certain position in life gives you respect from the outset of many situations. An entire swath of our social behaviour is based off this.
Somewhat agree
In those situations, you choose to learn from a person who has already done what you hope to do and these people are going to teach you how they did it. They earned your respect. A child doesn't decide if they want parents or even if they want to be born. The way you seem to be putting it, a child is born in debt to the parents.
the child doesn't decide "oh this guy seems to know what he's doing, I want to be his child." The child gets no say whatsoever. So they are basically forced into respecting a person they never met or wanted to meet.
no. I think a parent has to earn their child's respect
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On November 03 2009 04:52 Xenocide_Knight wrote:Show nested quote +On November 02 2009 15:32 Manifesto7 wrote:On November 02 2009 13:24 Xenocide_Knight wrote:On November 02 2009 13:14 lvatural wrote:On November 02 2009 12:35 Liquid`Drone wrote:On November 02 2009 11:50 JeeJee wrote:On November 02 2009 11:45 Liquid`Drone wrote:
as for the whole "respect your dad because he is your dad", that's a bunch of bullshit, especially when you are 22 years old. if your dad is a jackass, he doesnt deserve your respect. seriously? i don't care how much of an asshole my father is, him providing for me when i was fucking useless to the world is enough to earn my respect and forget any of his little faults for pretty much ever, whether i'm living alone or with him (especially moreso in the latter case) im not saying you shouldnt respect your father if he has some tiny flaws or whatever, but if he's a complete jackass? what if he beats your mom? all im saying is that fatherhood doesn't equal respect by default.. a good dad obviously deserves it, and im not saying op's dad is a bad father or not worthy of respect. just that it's not some kind of default state, respect needs to be earned even for a parent. Disagree. The default state given to your father is respect (of course this extends to the mother as well). Simply put, they're the reason you are here today. They housed, fed, taught, etc.. you for the beginning portion of your life. This in it of itself simply establishes lifetime respect. However, I do believe there are EXCEPTIONS to this, for example beating you or your mom for the hell of it or dumping you in a ditch when you were 9, that would not warrant this respect anymore. But these are only in extreme and narrow cases. A father being a complete jackass, in my opinion, doesn't fit into this category and should still be respected by his kids. Sure, your take on earning respect is reasonable when applied towards unrelated third parties; however, I think a father/mother should not be lumped in the same category. Disagree Respect is ALWAYS earned. no exceptions, parent or not. Same reasoning as you. They are the reason you are here today. YOU didn't choose to have parents or be born, THEY chose to have a child which they KNEW they would have to provide for for years and years. I don't see how that enables automatic respect Disagree. Respect is often the default position due to profession, station, or relationship. If you walk into a new class with a professor, you start out with an assumption of respect for him and his knowledge, because of his position. His actions can reinforce or counter that initial respect, but it is there to begin with. Same goes for when you take a lesson from a martial artist, when you meet a priest, or when you meet a president. The ability to attain a certain position in life gives you respect from the outset of many situations. An entire swath of our social behaviour is based off this. Somewhat agree In those situations, you choose to learn from a person who has already done what you hope to do and these people are going to teach you how they did it. They earned your respect. A child doesn't decide if they want parents or even if they want to be born. The way you seem to be putting it, a child is born in debt to the parents. the child doesn't decide "oh this guy seems to know what he's doing, I want to be his child." The child gets no say whatsoever. So they are basically forced into respecting a person they never met or wanted to meet. no. I think a parent has to earn their child's respect
How do you earn a child's respect? Is it subjective or is there a line between 'contractual' obligation and something worthy of respect?
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When did this idea of having to "earn someone's respect" become so widespread? You should treat everyone with respect until they give you reason not to. It's not really that complicated is it?
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On November 03 2009 03:26 Catch]22 wrote:
So I washed his shirts, I even vacuumed the house, and I left the shirts out (after drying them) so he would notice. After coming home he walks into my room carrying the shirts and asks me: "you didn't iron them?" then leaves.
Update on this, a couple of hours later, he comes in and says: "thanks for the shirt, we ok?" I say yeah, no prob.
I'd like to think we both admitted to being wrong.
Thanks for helping me clearing this up TL.net  I probably wouldnt have done anything if not for you guys.
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On November 02 2009 15:10 GTR wrote:
living with your parents when you are 22
lol
edit: also mora that is the MOST RANDOM EDIT i've ever read on this site.
Waitin for someone ignorant to make this comment as I read through the thread, but it's ok, you're a baby and aren't aware of what economic difficulties might mean to someone our age
And I think the attitude in here that parents are absolutely obligated to put up with a kid who is older than 15's bullshit just because they have some sort of "pact" to do so by having kids is ignorant and immature. Only people who are too young or too stupid would be saying that.
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Baltimore, USA22261 Posts
On November 03 2009 10:21 Catch]22 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2009 03:26 Catch]22 wrote:
So I washed his shirts, I even vacuumed the house, and I left the shirts out (after drying them) so he would notice. After coming home he walks into my room carrying the shirts and asks me: "you didn't iron them?" then leaves. Update on this, a couple of hours later, he comes in and says: "thanks for the shirt, we ok?" I say yeah, no prob. I'd like to think we both admitted to being wrong. Thanks for helping me clearing this up TL.net I probably wouldnt have done anything if not for you guys.
Thanks for the update - hope you both learned something from it!
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On November 02 2009 15:21 Mora wrote:Show nested quote +On November 02 2009 15:15 eMbrace wrote:On November 02 2009 15:10 GTR wrote:
living with your parents when you are 22
lol
edit: also mora that is the MOST RANDOM EDIT i've ever read on this site. laughing at people who live with their parents straight out of college doesn't seem like a very nice thing to do. most of my older brothers and sisters had to stay around for a bit before they could find somewhere to live and a job -- i'd imagine it would be very stressful. i disagree. moving out when they were out of highschool, working a minimum wage job, trying to find happiness in such a depressing situation - that would be stressful. staying at home with your rents so you can live a pampered luxurious life forever afterwards? Perhaps we just have a different definition of stress.
I live at home, I lived on my own previously, but I took a new job, and was fired within 3 weeks. Don't really understand the reason they gave, but it took me 1 month and 3 weeks to find a job, and 2 months 1 week to get my first, small paycheck. This was during the beginning of the recession. Unfortunately, I had enough money to pay for rent, but not for food or anything else, so I had to move back in with my parents. Within another 2 weeks, I found a second job, and was working two jobs for a while. My primary job found out I had a second job, and told me to quit it or I was fired. The primary job then 3 months later accused me of stealing and fired me for leaving the store unattended (they made me write a statement about the thievery, and basically he forced me to write it to make me as suspect as possible, some passages directly implying that the money was taken beyond coincidence on my shifts), they found out that I chased a customer to give them a debit card they forgot on the counter, and was fired that day. Now I'm unable to even find the shittiest job, I'd accept anything, 8.80/h. During that time, the job was part time only, as that's all I could find, and the hours were between 20-35 hours a week, depending on my crazy managers mood(she accused me of having a relationship with a coworker, and didn't let me work any shift with her for a full week, leaving me with no shifts for a week). I no longer own anything except the computer that I'm writing this on, which I purchased a few years ago that might sell for 300$ now. I have a car that I bought from my parents, which I had to give up some of my belongings for.
I have 900$ worth of expenses per month without rent, due mostly to the fact that my secondary education warranted 1 job, which I found a year and a half after finishing SAIT, which paid 12/h, I couldn't even pay back the loan with that money because of other expenses. Now that it requires a computer science degree to go work at iStock photo as a web developer, my education is completely moot. I'm 23, and yeah, life pretty much sucks, even at home. If my parents kicked me out, I'd have to take 3 jobs to pay for my shit in a productive manner. And I would if I could fucking find one.
I think you're being a little hard on people that live at home.
EDIT: I've never fucking stolen anything in my entire life, except when I was 4, from safeway I took out a chocolate from one of those open baskets that you spoon a quantity of into a bag, and pay by weight.
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On November 03 2009 10:21 Catch]22 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2009 03:26 Catch]22 wrote:
So I washed his shirts, I even vacuumed the house, and I left the shirts out (after drying them) so he would notice. After coming home he walks into my room carrying the shirts and asks me: "you didn't iron them?" then leaves. Update on this, a couple of hours later, he comes in and says: "thanks for the shirt, we ok?" I say yeah, no prob. I'd like to think we both admitted to being wrong. Thanks for helping me clearing this up TL.net I probably wouldnt have done anything if not for you guys.
awwwwwwwww. such a nice update.
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On November 03 2009 15:06 Element)LoGiC wrote:
I think you're being a little hard on people that live at home.
no. you're not at all what i was referring to. you're trying as hard as you can to make it on your own, and you're not having much success. that must be incredibly stressful and frustrating. in fact, that's exactly what i was referring to here:
moving out when they were out of highschool, working a minimum wage job, trying to find happiness in such a depressing situation - that would be stressful.
You aren't even able to maintain the moving out part. sooo harsh. 
i'm not even trying to say that people who live at home (under conditions of having their expenses and school paid for) don't experience stress, i'm saying that that kind of stress is [usually] less than something such as what you are going through.
Biding one's time doing menial chores while studying for something that will fetch you a $75k/year just can't take the cake over someone desperately trying to make it on their own; taking 3 jobs, accepting minimum wage, working in jobs that promise little to no future, etc.
It's about context. Coming on to tl.net to say "oh my god. i sleep 4 hours a night, i take drugs to maintain my grades, my parents beat me because they don't feel i pull my weight around the house" - i wouldn't begrudge giving this person sympathy. This person would also not complain that their parents asked them to quit a Starcraft game. (not trying to pick on OP, just keeping the context of my statements from being blown out of proportion).
btw Steve, how the fuck are you? That seems like a stupid question considering... but jesus man, it's been ages. I haven't seen you in like 8 years? Haven't talked to you in like 5 years? If you end up being in my area, we should meet up.
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On November 02 2009 10:54 Nevuk wrote:
As a highly combative person, yes, it does become much easier to have a relationship with your parents when you don't live with them.
Yeah, I just can't take shit from parents either. I had huge fights with my mum and dad, although my dad was a bit scarier at the time. I am compulsively not okay with being told what to do or obey orders lol ;P
Then again I moved out 8 years ago so it's not really an issue. But I can relate to what you are saying. Don't take shit if you don't want to, move out and get on with your life instead.
It's just so problematic to live with your parents when you're adult as well, it doesn't fucking work.
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On November 03 2009 15:19 Masamune wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2009 10:21 Catch]22 wrote:On November 03 2009 03:26 Catch]22 wrote:
So I washed his shirts, I even vacuumed the house, and I left the shirts out (after drying them) so he would notice. After coming home he walks into my room carrying the shirts and asks me: "you didn't iron them?" then leaves. Update on this, a couple of hours later, he comes in and says: "thanks for the shirt, we ok?" I say yeah, no prob. I'd like to think we both admitted to being wrong. Thanks for helping me clearing this up TL.net I probably wouldnt have done anything if not for you guys. awwwwwwwww. such a nice update.
x2. When I read it I was thinking the exact same thing. Families making up and getting along. I love it!
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Living alone with your dad in the long run is not gonna work unless you guys are really compatible at a personal level and genuinely like each other. Also the dad needs to be quite understanding and easy-going, otherwise there will be issues. I lived with my dad for 2 years or something and it didn't work at all. Then again my mum kicked me out so I didn't have much of a choice.
Anyways, the best thing ever was moving out.
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eh. Your dad probably didn't need to bitch about it, but you should have done it.
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On November 03 2009 10:21 Catch]22 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2009 03:26 Catch]22 wrote:
So I washed his shirts, I even vacuumed the house, and I left the shirts out (after drying them) so he would notice. After coming home he walks into my room carrying the shirts and asks me: "you didn't iron them?" then leaves. Update on this, a couple of hours later, he comes in and says: "thanks for the shirt, we ok?" I say yeah, no prob. I'd like to think we both admitted to being wrong. Thanks for helping me clearing this up TL.net I probably wouldnt have done anything if not for you guys.
Haha, I had the exact same thing a couple weeks back. Luckily I had my trainer in the role of TL. Good luck man, and get out of that house asap, because sooner or later it'll happen again.
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I don't know, he gave you alot of money. I would've happily left or paused the game.
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EPT
