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Whoa, this started out as a reply to another thread, but I recently realized that the fights me and my dad have been having has been spiraling out of control, just today we had a huge fight, which we wont mention again tomorrow, didnt work out, and will pretend never happened. I turned 22 on thursday, and I'm looking at moving out soon, which I claim, and really feel has nothing to do with us fighting all the time. But I really need to know if its just me being a jerk, or if my dad is just an asshole.
I forgot some laundry in the washer, and my dad came down and said he had to wash some shirts, so I had to empty the washer, now I'm in the middle of a starcraft game, and I tell him: "I cant do it right now"
Now here I could take 2 roads, I usually say I'll do it later, which gives me a lecture on why I shouldnt be playing games etc...
But this time, mostly because I was frustrated because the game wasnt going so well, I followed it up with "Why dont you do it yourself?"
Boy I shouldnt have done that. It started (in the middle of a frantic muta-defense with already few marines) a heated monologue on why I was ingrateful (he pointed out the fact that there was reason enough alone in the fact that I just got $130 from him yesterday when we celebrated my birthday), never did anything around the house, that I couldnt even pick up my own dirt, and that I was a complete moron to even ask him to empty the washer himself so he could wash his shirts. (The washer was full with clean, but wet, towels).
He said he needed the shirts himself, and that it was of UTMOST importance that they were clean tomorrow. After the game was over (you try microing marines against lurkers while your dad shouts at you at the same time) we kept discussing the matter, and I became more and more infuriated. Eventually I asked him why he thought I had to empty it, and he couldnt do it himself, especially if I was busy and it was such a hurry.
The answer?
"I didn't put them in the washer, I shouldnt have to empty it".
I felt this was ridiculous, I mean how old is he? It's the excuse you use when you're a small child (for EVERYTHING, I didn't do it, I didn't play with that toy, I didn't X the Y, therefor Z isn't my job.
I asked him, so: If I see towels in the washer, I shouldnt take them out, put them in the dryer and then put clothes of my own in the washer, just because I didn't put the towels in the washer? And how far does this extend, I no longer have to clear the whole table, because I didnt eat off of that plate? I dont have to take the cola that my little brother drank for dinner and put it in the fridge because I didnt take it out? I dont have to mow the lawn because I dont walk on it? I dont have to take the... well you get the picture.
He starts ranting about how at work, its alot better because everyone knows their responsibilities and yada yada, I cut him off and ask him to answer me, yes or no, I'f I need to wash some shirts for tomorrow, and I come home and find the washer filled with washed towels, do I call you and tell you to race home from work and empty the washer so I can wash my clothes? He tells me I'm not getting a yes or no answer and he walks away.
It's now 2 AM, I'm going to bed in a while, he's asleep, I didnt empty the washer, mostly because I wanted to point out how stupid his argument was, but also because I was angry. He didn't do it himself, despite needing clean shirts for work tomorrow.
Like I stated in the beginning, I'm not moving out because I dont want to fight with my dad, I'm moving out because I want to take care of myself, and most importantly, not have an hour commute to school. But I cant help think that not having a fight like this 3 or 4 times a week would really help the relationship between me and my father.
So what do you think guys, am I an ass, is he an ass, and how should I proceed?
tl;dr: Protoss is easymode to play.
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As a highly combative person, yes, it does become much easier to have a relationship with your parents when you don't live with them.
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lol if he didn't care about his shirt in the end I doubt he really needed them :O
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Come on man...he's your father.
Who gives a shit if his argument is wrong, show some deference and empty the bin.
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I think it's pretty lame of your dad to not do it himself, but yea, you should be the one to do it regardless.
Especially because he's your father.
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Sanya12364 Posts
You might want to empty that washer. Wet towels get nasty after a while.
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Osaka27154 Posts
I think if I came home, asked my son to finish the laundry that he had started and was instead told to "do it yourself" I would have hulk crushed that fucking computer.
You sound like a 12 year old in a 22 year old body.
tl;dr go away.
"I didn't put them in the washer, I shouldnt have to empty it".
I felt this was ridiculous, I mean how old is he? It's the excuse you use when you're a small child (for EVERYTHING, I didn't do it, I didn't play with that toy, I didn't X the Y, therefor Z isn't my job.
Welcome to real life, where you actually have to complete jobs, just not leave your shit laying around for others to do.
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You are an ass. Disrespecting the people who provided you for your whole life because of a StarCraft game is terrible.
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I've been in this situation while I was living at home, these small things annoy the shit out of you in the end, and you should move out asap. now to answer your question:
You're both asses but still have valid points. Your father is trying to teach you how life works when you'll get your own first apartment. If you run over your washingtime with even a minut you can be guaranteed that your laundry will be in a heap outside the door, wet or dry. Also imagine going around for 22 years picking up after somebody. I'd be sick before my kid even turned 12.
You have a valid point in that he most likely wasted more time and energy to walk to your room and take a huge fight about it, then to just take it out himself.
What people in general needs to learn is to see things from other peoples perspective!
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Learn to multitask, ie: argue with your parents and micro and macro at the same time.
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is awesome32277 Posts
i liked the tl;dr
I think your dad is correct.
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/agree
But i'm presuming you've been living off your parents like me your entire life so a loss on iccup isn't as important as helping out your parents who just came home from work.
The best answer to satisfy yourself and your dad would have been to ask him to give you the shirts and keep them on your lap till the end of the game and then put them in the wash and sort out the towels. It would take you all of 2 minutes after a game. Its not a big deal if you think about it in the terms that eventually you will move out and only have to deal with your parents while visiting/short periods of time and say the games lost of time lost to satisfy them would be an investment in your happiness as you wouldn't get any stress from them.
It can sort of be seen as giving-in but I prefer to see it as choosing the path of least resistance.
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An iccup game is that important to you? You better be A+ on iccup before that becomes anywhere near you getting up and emptying the washing machine.
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i don't get it
if it were anyone but your family, they'd just take your towels and toss them out and leave them in a heap on the dirty laundry floor so you have to waste coins and detergent (nevermind time) washing them again
you should've alt QQd your game and went to take the clothes out. honestly who the fuck cares about a computer game. failing that your dad should've went and unplugged the router or whatever in your their house -__-
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its funny how i when i read this i think you're wrong but i realize i would have done the same thing when im playing. Fml.
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On November 02 2009 10:59 fanatacist wrote:
You are an ass. Disrespecting the people who provided you for your whole life because of a StarCraft game is terrible.
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This post made me realize that i was an ass when i was a kid.
i'm better now though!
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I wouldn't go as far as to call you an ass. But you did handle the situation poorly. Had you handled it in a different manner, this wouldn't have ever happened. Though, when I'm pressured (such as playing a game in a tense situation) I tend to try to say whatever to get the person talking to me away. Then after the game I'll be grateful to do whatever. So I have said things like that before, not intending to. I'm assuming this is what you did? Anyways, small things like this blow over. It will be much easier when you're on your own, relationship wise.
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Your dad was in the right but I guess the way he approached it was lame with the slip into the "you do nothing" argument and being in that combative mode from the start. But yea, go empty that bin and clean his shirts. That could help things a bit and its just nice.
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I'm not going to deny that I've been put in a bad mood because of other people's fault I lost a SC game. But honestly, you took this way out of proportion. It's just a game, and despite certain chores that your father should have done, you have to look at this through his eyes. He sees his son wasting a time with a useless game, which he doesn't even understand, and that he is choosing that waste of time over listening to his direct request. Such a request was simple to fulfill and denied for a useless task. And then (because he doesn't see that you see SC as important, or at least why), his son fights at him back because of displaced anger for losing a game. True, a slight exaggeration, but that's how I interpret my parent's similar reactions to this. Same thing happens, but you have to think objectively. You are ignoring a chore because you would rather play a game, and getting angry from it. So to your question, yes.
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You did a couple things wrong
1) wrong section
2) wrong attitude
3) wrong choice of words
= your gonna get flamed.
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Sweden33719 Posts
Can you say whether you live in an appartment or if you have your own laundry-room or whatever it's called in english?
I mean, it seems completely, completely insane to me to go through the trouble of asking someone else to empty the washer when you could just temporarily take them out and place them on top of the washer or whatever and then tell you to sort it out when you have the time.
I can see it being different if you have to use a public laundry-room, but even then it seems like a LOT less work to just take care of it yourself (I mean, you had to go down there to find out he'd forgotten stuff right...? so now you go back, then back again? seems pointless).
I dunno, I think he's in the wrong.
Oh and unless what I'm being asked to do is absolutely URGENT, there is no way I'd quit a game over it  I'd ask my opponent to pause if it was kind of important I guess, but in general I'd just go with a "when I'm done" answer.
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Osaka27154 Posts
I mean, it seems completely, completely insane to me to go through the trouble of asking someone else to empty the washer when you could just temporarily take them out and place them on top of the washer or whatever and then tell you to sort it out when you have the time.
It's just a game, and despite certain chores that your father should have done, you have to look at this through his eyes.
But the kid started the laundry, and rather than finishing it he played SC. This caused a backlog of work at the washer for someone else who needed to use it for work the next day. His father shouldn't have done anything.
Everyone forgets shit in the washer, but you don't say "you do it" to someone after you are the one that screws up.
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Snet
United States3573 Posts
He starts ranting about how at work, its alot better because everyone knows their responsibilities and yada yada, I cut him off and ask him to answer me, yes or no, I'f I need to wash some shirts for tomorrow, and I come home and find the washer filled with washed towels, do I call you and tell you to race home from work and empty the washer so I can wash my clothes? He tells me I'm not getting a yes or no answer and he walks away.
Did you seriously say that? You compare him being at work providing for the family, to you playing starcraft? You sound like you are still stuck in that childish mentality where you're always right and your parents are always wrong or mean. I mean come on, you actually argued over this? Put the game on pause and rush to the washer and do your thing. Even if the guy unpaused losing a starcraft game is nothing compared to being a brat to your father.
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Was I the only one hoping that this would be be about a possibly illegal maneuver in an actual towel fight? 
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Sweden33719 Posts
On November 02 2009 11:22 Manifesto7 wrote:Show nested quote +I mean, it seems completely, completely insane to me to go through the trouble of asking someone else to empty the washer when you could just temporarily take them out and place them on top of the washer or whatever and then tell you to sort it out when you have the time. Show nested quote +It's just a game, and despite certain chores that your father should have done, you have to look at this through his eyes. But the kid started the laundry, and rather than finishing it he played SC. This caused a backlog of work at the washer for someone else who needed to use it for work the next day. His father shouldn't have done anything. Everyone forgets shit in the washer, but you don't say "you do it" to someone after you are the one that screws up.
I just don't understand how it's something worth fighting about... It just wouldn't even cross my mind to ask someone else to do it when I could just take literally 30 seconds to put them on top of/in the dryer or something.
Of course, logistically it might be different (ie public laundry-room... [laundromat?]) for others in which case my answer could change. Anyway, I would agree that saying "you do it" isn't the most diplomatic path, saying "Sure, give me 10 minutes and I'll take care of it" seems much more reasonable.
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On November 02 2009 11:20 SanguineToss wrote:
You did a couple things wrong
1) wrong section
2) wrong attitude
3) wrong choice of words
= your gonna get flamed.
i was thinking the same thing.
seems like there's more to the fighting than we actually know, so there's no way to say who's actually wrong.
and who/what is towelfight?
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On November 02 2009 11:28 Elemenope wrote:Was I the only one hoping that this would be be about a possibly illegal maneuver in an actual towel fight?
haha yeah me too. Reading all this drama just depresses me.
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Probably could have been solved with a more polite response, like, " Sorry, Could you put the towels on/in the (insert basket, table, dryer) for me?" or if you want to earn some points with dad, to have him leave his shirts next to the washer and that after this game you will take your shit out and put his in. Problem hopefully solved and your dad wont think you are as much of a an ungrateful son. Oh and to answer the query yes you were being an asshole and as was your father. The difference was your father was more justified in being an asshole.
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On November 02 2009 11:36 Luddite wrote:Show nested quote +On November 02 2009 11:28 Elemenope wrote:Was I the only one hoping that this would be be about a possibly illegal maneuver in an actual towel fight? haha yeah me too. Reading all this drama just depresses me.
Oh jesus me too, I was expecting a tragic rattail encounter involving arterial spray and maybe some cranial trauma.
Curses.
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Osaka27154 Posts
On November 02 2009 11:32 FrozenArbiter wrote:Show nested quote +On November 02 2009 11:22 Manifesto7 wrote:I mean, it seems completely, completely insane to me to go through the trouble of asking someone else to empty the washer when you could just temporarily take them out and place them on top of the washer or whatever and then tell you to sort it out when you have the time. It's just a game, and despite certain chores that your father should have done, you have to look at this through his eyes. But the kid started the laundry, and rather than finishing it he played SC. This caused a backlog of work at the washer for someone else who needed to use it for work the next day. His father shouldn't have done anything. Everyone forgets shit in the washer, but you don't say "you do it" to someone after you are the one that screws up. I just don't understand how it's something worth fighting about... It just wouldn't even cross my mind to ask someone else to do it when I could just take literally 30 seconds to put them on top of/in the dryer or something.
But I don't think the fight was on until the kid says "why dont you do it" while playing a computer game. That aside, I'm willing to bet this isn't the first time that something has been left undone. How many times are you going to pick up after someone else without saying anything?
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On November 02 2009 11:35 29 fps wrote:Show nested quote +On November 02 2009 11:20 SanguineToss wrote:
You did a couple things wrong
1) wrong section
2) wrong attitude
3) wrong choice of words
= your gonna get flamed. i was thinking the same thing. seems like there's more to the fighting than we actually know, so there's no way to say who's actually wrong. and who/what is towelfight?
fight over towels
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Norway28702 Posts
you're both correct and incorrect
he couldve just moved the towels out of the laundry machine, im certain you guys possess some sort of spot where wet towels can be for 15 minutes until you're done playing.
you on the other hand should have taken out his clothes at 2 am when you noticed his shirts being in laundried. taking the high road (and NOT making a point of it) is the best way to respond to this kind of thing.
as for the whole "respect your dad because he is your dad", that's a bunch of bullshit, especially when you are 22 years old. if your dad is a jackass, he doesnt deserve your respect. but, you do need to realize that he gets influenced by non-related happenings just like you - you were slightly angry and responded in a more disagreeable way than intended because you were losing in starcraft. he might have had a similar experience making him pissed, in fact he might have similar experiences frequently that frequently make him angry. making his life easier through just doing a little more chores might just make your relationship better.
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Baltimore, USA22256 Posts
You're an absolute ass; basically an immature teenager. I know because I did the same crap when I was that age... tbh, my Dad put up with a LOT of crap with me, and I honestly don't know if I could do the same.
I'm going to guess you're in the 16-19 age range - that being the case, you have very low accountability and responsibilities... real life will hit you in a few years, and then you'll understand, I honestly don't think you would right now.
The long and short is that, quite frankly, you are extremely unappreciative of everything you have and that he has done for you - you're young, that's just how it goes. We've all had that attitude, you can ask anyone here who is in their mid twenties and beyond.
The best advice I can say is apologize to your father asap. Trust me, it will mean a LOT to him, even if he doesn't show it. In a few years you'll be out on your own and it'll get much better... use this type of thing as motivation to do well with school/work to put yourself in a position to move out. My Dad did a lot for me, but we butted heads all the time, especially over things like how much time I spent playing video games, and things I did or didn't do around the house, and now that I'm out on my own we're real cool all the time
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Baltimore, USA22256 Posts
On November 02 2009 10:59 Julmust wrote:
You have a valid point in that he most likely wasted more time and energy to walk to your room and take a huge fight about it, then to just take it out himself.
I agree the rest of your post, but this part, I can 100% guarantee Dad is fed up because this is NOT the first time he has done things like this. 
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On November 02 2009 11:45 Liquid`Drone wrote:
as for the whole "respect your dad because he is your dad", that's a bunch of bullshit, especially when you are 22 years old. if your dad is a jackass, he doesnt deserve your respect.
seriously?
i don't care how much of an asshole my father is, him providing for me when i was fucking useless to the world is enough to earn my respect and forget any of his little faults for pretty much ever, whether i'm living alone or with him (especially moreso in the latter case)
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On November 02 2009 11:46 EvilTeletubby wrote:You're an absolute ass; basically an immature teenager. I know because I did the same crap when I was that age... tbh, my Dad put up with a LOT of crap with me, and I honestly don't know if I could do the same. I'm going to guess you're in the 16-19 age range - that being the case, you have very low accountability and responsibilities... real life will hit you in a few years, and then you'll understand, I honestly don't think you would right now. The long and short is that, quite frankly, you are extremely unappreciative of everything you have and that he has done for you - you're young, that's just how it goes. We've all had that attitude, you can ask anyone here who is in their mid twenties and beyond. The best advice I can say is apologize to your father asap. Trust me, it will mean a LOT to him, even if he doesn't show it. In a few years you'll be out on your own and it'll get much better... use this type of thing as motivation to do well with school/work to put yourself in a position to move out. My Dad did a lot for me, but we butted heads all the time, especially over things like how much time I spent playing video games, and things I did or didn't do around the house, and now that I'm out on my own we're real cool all the time
he said he was 22.
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Baltimore, USA22256 Posts
On November 02 2009 11:50 JeeJee wrote:Show nested quote +On November 02 2009 11:45 Liquid`Drone wrote:
as for the whole "respect your dad because he is your dad", that's a bunch of bullshit, especially when you are 22 years old. if your dad is a jackass, he doesnt deserve your respect. seriously? i don't care how much of an asshole my father is, him providing for me when i was fucking useless to the world is enough to earn my respect and forget any of his little faults for pretty much ever, whether i'm living alone or with him (especially moreso in the latter case)
Haha, sorry Eri, I agree with JeeJee on this one. Especially when I see nothing done by the Dad that makes him a jackass - although the son probably perceives it that way.
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If it was a cute female friend asking you wud have fallen over yourself to do it. Imagine yourself standing by a washer like ur dad, and the guy shouts 'i cant do it, im busy reading'. What a complete cretin - you wud be on here blogging about him too. Maybe if u had set a mutual precident where u picking up after each other is the norm, but OBVIOUSLY that doesnt exist between u.
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Baltimore, USA22256 Posts
On November 02 2009 11:50 SanguineToss wrote:Show nested quote +On November 02 2009 11:46 EvilTeletubby wrote:You're an absolute ass; basically an immature teenager. I know because I did the same crap when I was that age... tbh, my Dad put up with a LOT of crap with me, and I honestly don't know if I could do the same. I'm going to guess you're in the 16-19 age range - that being the case, you have very low accountability and responsibilities... real life will hit you in a few years, and then you'll understand, I honestly don't think you would right now. The long and short is that, quite frankly, you are extremely unappreciative of everything you have and that he has done for you - you're young, that's just how it goes. We've all had that attitude, you can ask anyone here who is in their mid twenties and beyond. The best advice I can say is apologize to your father asap. Trust me, it will mean a LOT to him, even if he doesn't show it. In a few years you'll be out on your own and it'll get much better... use this type of thing as motivation to do well with school/work to put yourself in a position to move out. My Dad did a lot for me, but we butted heads all the time, especially over things like how much time I spent playing video games, and things I did or didn't do around the house, and now that I'm out on my own we're real cool all the time he said he was 22.
Wow, you're right... I read that like twice and still missed it.
In that case, he's an even bigger jackass, and I can see why the Dad is getting so irritated. That's really the age when you really really want to move out and do your own thing.
Edit - Catch]22, I'm not trying to come down real hard on you, but as JeeJee previously mentioned, you really need to see this from the other side. One piece of advice I think a lot of people need to realize sooner rather than later is that the world owes you absolutely nothing.
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konadora
Singapore66355 Posts
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you are both immature, your father should have just taken the towels out of the washer, and at the very least placed them on top of a surface till you could come to place them in the dryer, and even that is immature because he could just put it in the dryer. He went up to you looking for a fight, maybe he was frustrated from work, whatever it was is irrelevant and he is being immature.
You on the other hand, were playing sc and told your father to go do it himself? ?? ? ??? wtf is wrong with you. if he is being a dick ( which he obviously is) trying to spiral the situation out of control by being as immature is not going to help.
when you move out tensions will probably unwind.
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On November 02 2009 11:32 FrozenArbiter wrote:Show nested quote +On November 02 2009 11:22 Manifesto7 wrote:I mean, it seems completely, completely insane to me to go through the trouble of asking someone else to empty the washer when you could just temporarily take them out and place them on top of the washer or whatever and then tell you to sort it out when you have the time. It's just a game, and despite certain chores that your father should have done, you have to look at this through his eyes. But the kid started the laundry, and rather than finishing it he played SC. This caused a backlog of work at the washer for someone else who needed to use it for work the next day. His father shouldn't have done anything. Everyone forgets shit in the washer, but you don't say "you do it" to someone after you are the one that screws up. I just don't understand how it's something worth fighting about... It just wouldn't even cross my mind to ask someone else to do it when I could just take literally 30 seconds to put them on top of/in the dryer or something. . Couldn't the same be said of the son? Seems like he started the fight just as much as the father. Maybe he was already in a bad mood about something else? Something more important than defending muta harass? Most kids get in stupid fights with their parents but seriously what could you say to him? "Can't you see I'm microing against Lurkers?!?!"
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On November 02 2009 11:54 konadora wrote:
sc addict
arent we all -_-
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He probably needed those shirts for work, which he does to pay for you to live despite the fact that you're 22 and should be providing for yourself. I would be embarrassed.
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On November 02 2009 11:53 EvilTeletubby wrote:Show nested quote +On November 02 2009 11:50 SanguineToss wrote:On November 02 2009 11:46 EvilTeletubby wrote:You're an absolute ass; basically an immature teenager. I know because I did the same crap when I was that age... tbh, my Dad put up with a LOT of crap with me, and I honestly don't know if I could do the same. I'm going to guess you're in the 16-19 age range - that being the case, you have very low accountability and responsibilities... real life will hit you in a few years, and then you'll understand, I honestly don't think you would right now. The long and short is that, quite frankly, you are extremely unappreciative of everything you have and that he has done for you - you're young, that's just how it goes. We've all had that attitude, you can ask anyone here who is in their mid twenties and beyond. The best advice I can say is apologize to your father asap. Trust me, it will mean a LOT to him, even if he doesn't show it. In a few years you'll be out on your own and it'll get much better... use this type of thing as motivation to do well with school/work to put yourself in a position to move out. My Dad did a lot for me, but we butted heads all the time, especially over things like how much time I spent playing video games, and things I did or didn't do around the house, and now that I'm out on my own we're real cool all the time he said he was 22. Wow, you're right... I read that like twice and still missed it. In that case, he's an even bigger jackass, and I can see why the Dad is getting so irritated. That's really the age when you really really want to move out and do your own thing. Edit - Catch]22, I'm not trying to come down real hard on you, but as JeeJee previously mentioned, you really need to see this from the other side. One piece of advice I think a lot of people need to realize sooner rather than later is that the world owes you absolutely nothing.
It's laundry.
This isn't about bowing down to those who shelter you, or sucking up to your boss.
It's laundry.
It's a task that most human beings can achieve within 60 seconds (I've seen faster, but I don't have proof so don't call me out please).
Father or son, you are both human. You don't take your laundry out immediately after it finishes because you are human and spending your time elsewhere. So when someone comes across it, and feels that because they provide for you that you should be be mr.perfect about every little thing -- they are being ridiculous.
That being said -- you don't talk back to ridiculous people.
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If you were playing a heated ranked ICCup game is one thing... but a Muta D? You're taking it too far.
+ Show Spoiler +I'm kidding, You're a jackass either way.
edit: Also this lol:
On November 02 2009 11:28 Elemenope wrote:Was I the only one hoping that this would be be about a possibly illegal maneuver in an actual towel fight?
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On November 02 2009 11:28 Elemenope wrote:Was I the only one hoping that this would be be about a possibly illegal maneuver in an actual towel fight?
yeah i imagined the op would be about him whipping some other guy with a towel and wondering if that makes him a dick
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I know how you feel because sometimes me and my parents get into similar arguments over immature stuff like this. Although I realized that I was wrong and being a immature kid, it's hard to say sorry after the parents start ranting about shit and yelling at you about things that has nothing even closely to do with why the argument started for like half a hour. Sometimes you can snap and want to just snap back and defend yourself to all the unrelated shit they keep on talking about but that just escalates the problem further.
After I cool down a bit from these situations, I always do something to apologize because you got to see it from your parents point of view to understand why this shit happened. As everyone already pointed out, your dad raised and cared for you for 22 fucking years(probably asked nothing in return), and when you won't help your dad out/do your share of work( especially after he gave you 130 bucks for your birthday a few days ago) to play a video game, your dad will understandably get pissed at how unappreciative his son is/appears to be. He will sometimes rant longer than you may feel he should and annoy you, but he has every right to do so and you have no right to argue back no matter how small the chore is since you yelled back at him cause you lost a video game.
However, no one was the asshole during the fight(it was just human nature),. Yeah, your dad wasn't that right as he could have easily waited for something so simple, but once again, you were the 22 year old living at home playing a video game and not doing anything else important when you could have paused. I might sound condescending, but I'm not because I go through the same thing only to realize 30 minutes later "shit, was that really worth 1up?"
And everyone who kinda flamed you in a stuck up way is a hypocrite.We've all had similar situations when we ignored our parents who asked us to do a quick errand/chore and started a fight for unimportant shit like a good game, tv show, an unimportant phone call etc. Its part of being a teenager(or you can argue all teenagers are assholes towards parents).
In summary, learn to handle it better and if your dad still won't give you time, just go do it. Arguing with him in these conditions will never leave you on top.
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Sweden33719 Posts
On November 02 2009 12:00 tegg wrote:Show nested quote +On November 02 2009 11:32 FrozenArbiter wrote:On November 02 2009 11:22 Manifesto7 wrote:I mean, it seems completely, completely insane to me to go through the trouble of asking someone else to empty the washer when you could just temporarily take them out and place them on top of the washer or whatever and then tell you to sort it out when you have the time. It's just a game, and despite certain chores that your father should have done, you have to look at this through his eyes. But the kid started the laundry, and rather than finishing it he played SC. This caused a backlog of work at the washer for someone else who needed to use it for work the next day. His father shouldn't have done anything. Everyone forgets shit in the washer, but you don't say "you do it" to someone after you are the one that screws up. I just don't understand how it's something worth fighting about... It just wouldn't even cross my mind to ask someone else to do it when I could just take literally 30 seconds to put them on top of/in the dryer or something. . Couldn't the same be said of the son? Seems like he started the fight just as much as the father. Maybe he was already in a bad mood about something else? Something more important than defending muta harass? Most kids get in stupid fights with their parents but seriously what could you say to him? "Can't you see I'm microing against Lurkers?!?!"
Yeah, a much better response would have been "sure, can you give me 5 minutes?" or pausing the game (if possible).
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United States24723 Posts
You have to take a step back and look at everything that happened objectively... you are coming across as having completely the wrong attitude. Your dad did not know how to deal with the situation when you started arguing with him and is somewhat enabling you so it's partially his fault, but he does not seem to have any negative intentions.
You should not start arguing with him while you are in the wrong. If you want to go down the road of proving you are right about the issue, do it after you have taken responsibility for your laundry and cleaned it up or whatever shit it is that you are supposed to be doing.
Again, your terrible attitude is not necessarily entirely your fault but your life will most likely be much better if you take responsibility for growing up into your own hands.
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Dude just listen to your dad, just GG and go do it. It's not worth the fucking problems it caused by saying that disrespectful shit.
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On November 02 2009 12:16 FrozenArbiter wrote:Show nested quote +On November 02 2009 12:00 tegg wrote:On November 02 2009 11:32 FrozenArbiter wrote:On November 02 2009 11:22 Manifesto7 wrote:I mean, it seems completely, completely insane to me to go through the trouble of asking someone else to empty the washer when you could just temporarily take them out and place them on top of the washer or whatever and then tell you to sort it out when you have the time. It's just a game, and despite certain chores that your father should have done, you have to look at this through his eyes. But the kid started the laundry, and rather than finishing it he played SC. This caused a backlog of work at the washer for someone else who needed to use it for work the next day. His father shouldn't have done anything. Everyone forgets shit in the washer, but you don't say "you do it" to someone after you are the one that screws up. I just don't understand how it's something worth fighting about... It just wouldn't even cross my mind to ask someone else to do it when I could just take literally 30 seconds to put them on top of/in the dryer or something. . Couldn't the same be said of the son? Seems like he started the fight just as much as the father. Maybe he was already in a bad mood about something else? Something more important than defending muta harass? Most kids get in stupid fights with their parents but seriously what could you say to him? "Can't you see I'm microing against Lurkers?!?!" Yeah, a much better response would have been "sure, can you give me 5 minutes?" or pausing the game (if possible).
yeah but the issue was (and why it was initially ridiculous on the father's part), was that he was standing at the washer and decided to call down his son to do his 10-20 second task, instead of being reasonable and being like, "oh, it's just laundry."
it's not boot camp, it's a family household. and i think people who believe parents should run a household like a boot camp are nuts.
and im not saying i agree with the OP's attitude, because it was stupid as well -- but his frustration is pretty natural.
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Sweden33719 Posts
Yes for sure, I posted the same thing higher up in that quote chain!!
See? I mean, it seems completely, completely insane to me to go through the trouble of asking someone else to empty the washer when you could just temporarily take them out and place them on top of the washer or whatever and then tell you to sort it out when you have the time.
That was me ;p
I'm really, really surprised at a lot of the responses in this thread, but I guess people have different habits.
On November 02 2009 12:18 LordWeird wrote:
Dude just listen to your dad, just GG and go do it. It's not worth the fucking problems it caused by saying that disrespectful shit.
In itself, "can't you do it?" is not disrespectful. However, having some measure of experience with the annoyance losing at SC can cause... I can well imagine that it wasn't said in the most diplomatic of ways.
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This is the kind of shit I hate about living at home. I know im in the wrong in a situation like this but the fact that i feel like im being pushed around by my parents (father specifically) really bothers the shit out of me. Theres a difference between asking someone to do something and telling someone. Im combative when people tell me to do something. While yes you should have taken your shit out of the dryer I feel like a situation like this could be approached better by your father. Like say talk to you later calmly about it instead of busting in on you while you are obviously busy.
I appreciate my parents providing for me but its incredibly irritating. If you ask me for help with something dont just sit around and watch......thats irritating as fuck. If something takes you 2 seconds to do and you are already there what the fuck are you asking me to come in and do it for. Id never do that to them.
I think situations like this depend on your parents and your relationships with them personally. My dad provides but hes messy as shit and pretends like its not his stuff. Every now and then hell go on a tirade about how the house is a mess yada yada yada when all of this stuff is his shit! I dont ever expect them to pickup my shit....why the hell would you yell at someone to pick up your own stuff?
Bah....I can sympathize with this guy is all I tried to get at. Even if you look at the situation and realize you could handle it better. Emotions are a fucked up thing.
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On November 02 2009 12:24 FrozenArbiter wrote:Yes for sure, I posted the same thing higher up in that quote chain!! See? Show nested quote +I mean, it seems completely, completely insane to me to go through the trouble of asking someone else to empty the washer when you could just temporarily take them out and place them on top of the washer or whatever and then tell you to sort it out when you have the time. That was me ;p I'm really, really surprised at a lot of the responses in this thread, but I guess people have different habits.
well it's good to see reasonable human beings on here that will make for hopefully sane parents.
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you are an ass.
how hard will it be to tell him to leave the shirts so you can take out the towels and do the shirts after your game have finish?
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Norway28702 Posts
On November 02 2009 11:50 JeeJee wrote:Show nested quote +On November 02 2009 11:45 Liquid`Drone wrote:
as for the whole "respect your dad because he is your dad", that's a bunch of bullshit, especially when you are 22 years old. if your dad is a jackass, he doesnt deserve your respect. seriously? i don't care how much of an asshole my father is, him providing for me when i was fucking useless to the world is enough to earn my respect and forget any of his little faults for pretty much ever, whether i'm living alone or with him (especially moreso in the latter case)
im not saying you shouldnt respect your father if he has some tiny flaws or whatever, but if he's a complete jackass? what if he beats your mom? all im saying is that fatherhood doesn't equal respect by default.. a good dad obviously deserves it, and im not saying op's dad is a bad father or not worthy of respect. just that it's not some kind of default state, respect needs to be earned even for a parent.
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On November 02 2009 12:15 Nitrogen wrote:Show nested quote +On November 02 2009 11:28 Elemenope wrote:Was I the only one hoping that this would be be about a possibly illegal maneuver in an actual towel fight? yeah i imagined the op would be about him whipping some other guy with a towel and wondering if that makes him a dick
Yeah this is what I was expecting lol.
You are kind of an ass I guess, you should have paused the game then ran and done it as quickly as possible to avoid this nasty situation.
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Lonehydra: mentioning how he wud act diferently for a girl is important becoz it shows him that his reasoning is quite fragile + not as full of honest conviction as he feels. Im getting pretty fucking sick of ppl not using their brains before replying to me, iv had 7 personal attacks inc. a pm tellin me to kill myself in 24 hours becoz ppl cant seem to get their head around my slightly abstract/indirect way of communicating
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On November 02 2009 12:35 Liquid`Drone wrote:Show nested quote +On November 02 2009 11:50 JeeJee wrote:On November 02 2009 11:45 Liquid`Drone wrote:
as for the whole "respect your dad because he is your dad", that's a bunch of bullshit, especially when you are 22 years old. if your dad is a jackass, he doesnt deserve your respect. seriously? i don't care how much of an asshole my father is, him providing for me when i was fucking useless to the world is enough to earn my respect and forget any of his little faults for pretty much ever, whether i'm living alone or with him (especially moreso in the latter case) im not saying you shouldnt respect your father if he has some tiny flaws or whatever, but if he's a complete jackass? what if he beats your mom? all im saying is that fatherhood doesn't equal respect by default.. a good dad obviously deserves it, and im not saying op's dad is a bad father or not worthy of respect. just that it's not some kind of default state, respect needs to be earned even for a parent.
I agree with this completely.
Then again Ive always been what is nowadays termed a "strong willed" child. (I know this because my sister has recently had her second kid and is all about reading these parenting books and since shes 11 years older than me she can give amazing specifics about my childhood).
Some people are just combative by nature and dont like being walked over or have problems with authority. Also being patronizing and calling it maturity is annoying as hell too =-) Thats a good way to get someone not to do something again.
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That's your Dad you're talking about. Even when you move out he will still be your Dad. He is trying to set an example for you even though he was disappointed by your behavior. He is putting his faith in you to give you an opportunity to do the right thing. Set your pride aside. Show your Dad you respect him enough, right or wrong, to do as he asks you to do.
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On November 02 2009 12:24 FrozenArbiter wrote:Yes for sure, I posted the same thing higher up in that quote chain!! See? Show nested quote +I mean, it seems completely, completely insane to me to go through the trouble of asking someone else to empty the washer when you could just temporarily take them out and place them on top of the washer or whatever and then tell you to sort it out when you have the time. That was me ;p I'm really, really surprised at a lot of the responses in this thread, but I guess people have different habits. Show nested quote +On November 02 2009 12:18 LordWeird wrote:
Dude just listen to your dad, just GG and go do it. It's not worth the fucking problems it caused by saying that disrespectful shit. In itself, "can't you do it?" is not disrespectful. However, having some measure of experience with the annoyance losing at SC can cause... I can well imagine that it wasn't said in the most diplomatic of ways.
Heh. "Why can't you do it?" has a pretty disrespectful connotation. "Can't you do it" is more along the lines of "Could you please do it for me". It's the "Why can't" that makes it seem more rude. It's like, "Why can't you do it? [Are you too lazy?]"
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Sweden33719 Posts
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Go play Starcraft at a PC Cafe
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The argument has nothing to do with towels in the laundry machine. Its that you disrespected your Dad, and in his eyes (and mine) you weren't doing anything important.
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why dont u try to focus a little more on how to improve your relationship with your father, as opposed to trying to figure out whos right and whos wrong? ask your old man to come with you to a bar some time and have a couple of drinks. or do something that u usually wouldnt do together, whatever it may be. when u move away, the fights will surely cool off, but so will your relationship. do u realize that some people are not as lucky as u to even have a fight with their fathers? appreciate what u have. mutalisks raping your marines means nothing any time any day. a fight with your father is something that you might regret one day. sorry to be so blunt, but family comes first. always.
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While I feel you could have handled the situation, I'm going to say your father was especially immature by bringing up the whole "providing for you" thing.
I mean, the father (and mother) decides "oh we want to have a kid. Someone who is going to be basically useless for a good 20 years or so". I feel like a "parent" basically signed a contract agreeing to provide for their kid until they can provide for themselves. There is nothing that says "if i have a kid, I will have a mini version of myself that will drop everything and do menial tasks for me that I could have done in 2-3 seconds"
Trying to teach your child a lesson in responsibility is great. telling them that they owe you something because of their decisions is not.
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On November 02 2009 12:35 Liquid`Drone wrote:Show nested quote +On November 02 2009 11:50 JeeJee wrote:On November 02 2009 11:45 Liquid`Drone wrote:
as for the whole "respect your dad because he is your dad", that's a bunch of bullshit, especially when you are 22 years old. if your dad is a jackass, he doesnt deserve your respect. seriously? i don't care how much of an asshole my father is, him providing for me when i was fucking useless to the world is enough to earn my respect and forget any of his little faults for pretty much ever, whether i'm living alone or with him (especially moreso in the latter case) im not saying you shouldnt respect your father if he has some tiny flaws or whatever, but if he's a complete jackass? what if he beats your mom? all im saying is that fatherhood doesn't equal respect by default.. a good dad obviously deserves it, and im not saying op's dad is a bad father or not worthy of respect. just that it's not some kind of default state, respect needs to be earned even for a parent.
Disagree.
The default state given to your father is respect (of course this extends to the mother as well).
Simply put, they're the reason you are here today. They housed, fed, taught, etc.. you for the beginning portion of your life. This in it of itself simply establishes lifetime respect.
However, I do believe there are EXCEPTIONS to this, for example beating you or your mom for the hell of it or dumping you in a ditch when you were 9, that would not warrant this respect anymore. But these are only in extreme and narrow cases. A father being a complete jackass, in my opinion, doesn't fit into this category and should still be respected by his kids.
Sure, your take on earning respect is reasonable when applied towards unrelated third parties; however, I think a father/mother should not be lumped in the same category.
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If my dad told me to turn off the computer for no reason what so ever in the middle of a A+ ICCUP game or a tournie final you bet your ass i'd do it. i'd try explaining to him why its important but if he wanted me to do something else i'd get off my ass and do it.
to say "do it yourself" i can't even imagine saying something like that to my dad or mom. my brother i could see myself saying it to. but would never think of saying something like that to my parents. maybe its cultural or something but until you get your ass out of that house or pay all its bills, the boss' word is law (of course within limits). but even then living in my own house with a family and everything, i still wouldn't do something like that.
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On November 02 2009 13:14 lvatural wrote:Show nested quote +On November 02 2009 12:35 Liquid`Drone wrote:On November 02 2009 11:50 JeeJee wrote:On November 02 2009 11:45 Liquid`Drone wrote:
as for the whole "respect your dad because he is your dad", that's a bunch of bullshit, especially when you are 22 years old. if your dad is a jackass, he doesnt deserve your respect. seriously? i don't care how much of an asshole my father is, him providing for me when i was fucking useless to the world is enough to earn my respect and forget any of his little faults for pretty much ever, whether i'm living alone or with him (especially moreso in the latter case) im not saying you shouldnt respect your father if he has some tiny flaws or whatever, but if he's a complete jackass? what if he beats your mom? all im saying is that fatherhood doesn't equal respect by default.. a good dad obviously deserves it, and im not saying op's dad is a bad father or not worthy of respect. just that it's not some kind of default state, respect needs to be earned even for a parent. Disagree. The default state given to your father is respect (of course this extends to the mother as well). Simply put, they're the reason you are here today. They housed, fed, taught, etc.. you for the beginning portion of your life. This in it of itself simply establishes lifetime respect. However, I do believe there are EXCEPTIONS to this, for example beating you or your mom for the hell of it or dumping you in a ditch when you were 9, that would not warrant this respect anymore. But these are only in extreme and narrow cases. A father being a complete jackass, in my opinion, doesn't fit into this category and should still be respected by his kids. Sure, your take on earning respect is reasonable when applied towards unrelated third parties; however, I think a father/mother should not be lumped in the same category.
Disagree
Respect is ALWAYS earned. no exceptions, parent or not. Same reasoning as you. They are the reason you are here today. YOU didn't choose to have parents or be born, THEY chose to have a child which they KNEW they would have to provide for for years and years. I don't see how that enables automatic respect
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On November 02 2009 12:35 Liquid`Drone wrote:Show nested quote +On November 02 2009 11:50 JeeJee wrote:On November 02 2009 11:45 Liquid`Drone wrote:
as for the whole "respect your dad because he is your dad", that's a bunch of bullshit, especially when you are 22 years old. if your dad is a jackass, he doesnt deserve your respect. seriously? i don't care how much of an asshole my father is, him providing for me when i was fucking useless to the world is enough to earn my respect and forget any of his little faults for pretty much ever, whether i'm living alone or with him (especially moreso in the latter case) im not saying you shouldnt respect your father if he has some tiny flaws or whatever, but if he's a complete jackass? what if he beats your mom? all im saying is that fatherhood doesn't equal respect by default.. a good dad obviously deserves it, and im not saying op's dad is a bad father or not worthy of respect. just that it's not some kind of default state, respect needs to be earned even for a parent.
I agree it needs to be earned. Don't you feel it's been earned by the fact that OP is where he is today? With a roof over his head, over 2 decades of taking care of the OP, providing the basic necessities and so much more (like teaching him pretty much everything about everything, providing him with internet and electronics and all other luxuries), etc..
Obviously exceptions exist to everything, Ivatural summed it up nicely. Nevertheless, the fact that OP is where he is makes his dad deserve nothing less than uttermost respect, barring some really extraneous circumstances which don't seem to exist in OPs case. And really, valuing a random computer game moreso than a perfectly reasonable request of his father is absolutely ridiculous, nevermind his absolutely shittastic attitude towards it to begin with.
I'm basically just rambling and saying the fact that the OP is where he is means his dad deserves the respect, don't you agree?
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On November 02 2009 13:24 Xenocide_Knight wrote:Show nested quote +On November 02 2009 13:14 lvatural wrote:On November 02 2009 12:35 Liquid`Drone wrote:On November 02 2009 11:50 JeeJee wrote:On November 02 2009 11:45 Liquid`Drone wrote:
as for the whole "respect your dad because he is your dad", that's a bunch of bullshit, especially when you are 22 years old. if your dad is a jackass, he doesnt deserve your respect. seriously? i don't care how much of an asshole my father is, him providing for me when i was fucking useless to the world is enough to earn my respect and forget any of his little faults for pretty much ever, whether i'm living alone or with him (especially moreso in the latter case) im not saying you shouldnt respect your father if he has some tiny flaws or whatever, but if he's a complete jackass? what if he beats your mom? all im saying is that fatherhood doesn't equal respect by default.. a good dad obviously deserves it, and im not saying op's dad is a bad father or not worthy of respect. just that it's not some kind of default state, respect needs to be earned even for a parent. Disagree. The default state given to your father is respect (of course this extends to the mother as well). Simply put, they're the reason you are here today. They housed, fed, taught, etc.. you for the beginning portion of your life. This in it of itself simply establishes lifetime respect. However, I do believe there are EXCEPTIONS to this, for example beating you or your mom for the hell of it or dumping you in a ditch when you were 9, that would not warrant this respect anymore. But these are only in extreme and narrow cases. A father being a complete jackass, in my opinion, doesn't fit into this category and should still be respected by his kids. Sure, your take on earning respect is reasonable when applied towards unrelated third parties; however, I think a father/mother should not be lumped in the same category. Disagree Respect is ALWAYS earned. no exceptions, parent or not. Same reasoning as you. They are the reason you are here today. YOU didn't choose to have parents or be born, THEY chose to have a child which they KNEW they would have to provide for for years and years. I don't see how that enables automatic respect
I agree, there are tons of bad parents out there that don't deserve to be parents. Yes, DESERVE.
However I would have to say the OP is irresponsible, having put a minor game over taking responsibility over his own laundry. I thought BW came with a pause button now...
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Sweden33719 Posts
If my dad told me to turn off the computer for no reason what so ever in the middle of a A+ ICCUP game or a tournie final you bet your ass i'd do it. i'd try explaining to him why its important but if he wanted me to do something else i'd get off my ass and do it.
I'm sorry but doing things for no reason/no explanation is not something I'd do just because I respect and love someone.
I don't think this makes me a horrible person.
Fortunately, none of my parents would ever tell me to do something like that without a good reason so it's not like the situation will ever come up.
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You can't even finish doing your laundry and you want to move out and live by yourself?
good luck.
Hm i should go to work, nah i must finish this game.
Hm i should cook dinner for myself, nah i must micro my muta.
Hm i should probably take a shower, no wait im almost D+!! Just a few more games.
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You need to quit starcraft for a couple months and gain some perspective. Once you take a break and become less emotionally attached to "reaching the next rank" or "beating this one korean" or whatever was so important to you at the time, you will realize that respecting other people and completing your responsibilities is more important.
I think for anyone, it's pretty obvious that your dad wasnt just pissed about the towels, unless he's chemically imbalanced. You have probably been being irresponsible in many other ways, and this is what set him off. (well, you said you fight a lot anyways, so i guess thats more proof that he wasnt pissed about the towels, but just pissed at you)
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On November 02 2009 13:24 Xenocide_Knight wrote:Show nested quote +On November 02 2009 13:14 lvatural wrote:On November 02 2009 12:35 Liquid`Drone wrote:On November 02 2009 11:50 JeeJee wrote:On November 02 2009 11:45 Liquid`Drone wrote:
as for the whole "respect your dad because he is your dad", that's a bunch of bullshit, especially when you are 22 years old. if your dad is a jackass, he doesnt deserve your respect. seriously? i don't care how much of an asshole my father is, him providing for me when i was fucking useless to the world is enough to earn my respect and forget any of his little faults for pretty much ever, whether i'm living alone or with him (especially moreso in the latter case) im not saying you shouldnt respect your father if he has some tiny flaws or whatever, but if he's a complete jackass? what if he beats your mom? all im saying is that fatherhood doesn't equal respect by default.. a good dad obviously deserves it, and im not saying op's dad is a bad father or not worthy of respect. just that it's not some kind of default state, respect needs to be earned even for a parent. Disagree. The default state given to your father is respect (of course this extends to the mother as well). Simply put, they're the reason you are here today. They housed, fed, taught, etc.. you for the beginning portion of your life. This in it of itself simply establishes lifetime respect. However, I do believe there are EXCEPTIONS to this, for example beating you or your mom for the hell of it or dumping you in a ditch when you were 9, that would not warrant this respect anymore. But these are only in extreme and narrow cases. A father being a complete jackass, in my opinion, doesn't fit into this category and should still be respected by his kids. Sure, your take on earning respect is reasonable when applied towards unrelated third parties; however, I think a father/mother should not be lumped in the same category. Disagree Respect is ALWAYS earned. no exceptions, parent or not. Same reasoning as you. They are the reason you are here today. YOU didn't choose to have parents or be born, THEY chose to have a child which they KNEW they would have to provide for for years and years. I don't see how that enables automatic respect
If you want to get technical read my first paragraph again. The fact that they raised you properly-->immense respect is earning it in your speak.
All I'm saying is that generally all parents will do a reasonable job when it comes to raising kids. This simple fact in itself is enough to warrant the lifetime respect I am talking about regardless of any inherent personality flaw like being a complete jackass.
Remember that I'm not talking about extreme cases of egregious conduct by the parent.
Also, I disagree with you saying that respect is ALWAYS earned but that's a bitch to get into right now so lets just say we're of differing opinions.
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he can obviously do his laundry, but his dad is not considerate when he makes his son distracted while he is preoccupied.
dad shouldve asked the son to do it perhaps in half an hour instead of giving urgency to the situation.
it fucking sucks when you are winning a game and lose because your dad told you to do something that you can just as easily do after teh game.
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On November 02 2009 13:43 ramen247 wrote:
he can obviously do his laundry, but his dad is not considerate when he makes his son distracted while he is preoccupied.
dad shouldve asked the son to do it perhaps in half an hour instead of giving urgency to the situation.
it fucking sucks when you are winning a game and lose because your dad told you to do something that you can just as easily do after teh game.
I don't know if you or the OP knows this but.....
+ Show Spoiler +
STARCRAFT HAS A PAUSE BUTTON.
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Both of you were asses. There is no reason your father couldnt take your laundry out of the washing machine. It is not like that is a difficult activity. It only takes a few seconds. The way you responded to your father did seem a bit disrespectful though.
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On November 02 2009 13:41 lvatural wrote:Show nested quote +On November 02 2009 13:24 Xenocide_Knight wrote:On November 02 2009 13:14 lvatural wrote:On November 02 2009 12:35 Liquid`Drone wrote:On November 02 2009 11:50 JeeJee wrote:On November 02 2009 11:45 Liquid`Drone wrote:
as for the whole "respect your dad because he is your dad", that's a bunch of bullshit, especially when you are 22 years old. if your dad is a jackass, he doesnt deserve your respect. seriously? i don't care how much of an asshole my father is, him providing for me when i was fucking useless to the world is enough to earn my respect and forget any of his little faults for pretty much ever, whether i'm living alone or with him (especially moreso in the latter case) im not saying you shouldnt respect your father if he has some tiny flaws or whatever, but if he's a complete jackass? what if he beats your mom? all im saying is that fatherhood doesn't equal respect by default.. a good dad obviously deserves it, and im not saying op's dad is a bad father or not worthy of respect. just that it's not some kind of default state, respect needs to be earned even for a parent. Disagree. The default state given to your father is respect (of course this extends to the mother as well). Simply put, they're the reason you are here today. They housed, fed, taught, etc.. you for the beginning portion of your life. This in it of itself simply establishes lifetime respect. However, I do believe there are EXCEPTIONS to this, for example beating you or your mom for the hell of it or dumping you in a ditch when you were 9, that would not warrant this respect anymore. But these are only in extreme and narrow cases. A father being a complete jackass, in my opinion, doesn't fit into this category and should still be respected by his kids. Sure, your take on earning respect is reasonable when applied towards unrelated third parties; however, I think a father/mother should not be lumped in the same category. Disagree Respect is ALWAYS earned. no exceptions, parent or not. Same reasoning as you. They are the reason you are here today. YOU didn't choose to have parents or be born, THEY chose to have a child which they KNEW they would have to provide for for years and years. I don't see how that enables automatic respect If you want to get technical read my first paragraph again. The fact that they raised you properly-->immense respect is earning it in your speak. All I'm saying is that generally all parents will do a reasonable job when it comes to raising kids. This simple fact in itself is enough to warrant the lifetime respect I am talking about regardless of any inherent personality flaw like being a complete jackass. Remember that I'm not talking about extreme cases of egregious conduct by the parent. Also, I disagree with you saying that respect is ALWAYS earned but that's a bitch to get into right now so lets just say we're of differing opinions.
Doing a reasonable job of raising a child to the best of their abilities is what they agree to do when they have a child..
Thats why when they don't do a reasonable job of raising a child, there are laws against that and the government (hopefully) intervenes. Because the parents didn't uphold their bargain.
I just can't give someone respect because they did what they agreed to do.
The way I see it, a child is raised and provided for while doing nothing in return for their parents. This is an equal footing situation. In an equal to equal interaction, there either has to be mutual respect or respect has to be earned both ways.
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On November 02 2009 13:33 Probe. wrote:
You can't even finish doing your laundry and you want to move out and live by yourself?
good luck.
Hm i should go to work, nah i must finish this game.
Hm i should cook dinner for myself, nah i must micro my muta.
Hm i should probably take a shower, no wait im almost D+!! Just a few more games.
Wow your logic is terrible. I don't know if it's too far of a stretch for you to consider planning ahead, but though my day I allot time to what I will be doing. The only problems I ever have are unexpected this that crop up whilst I'm busy. So yes, I would be off in time to go to work. No, I wouldn't go do some random bullshit that someone else could do in 5 seconds. Please use your brain instead of trying to exhibit a horrid troll.
+ Show Spoiler +Then again this is by my logic and not his. But I assume it would be similar
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On November 02 2009 13:33 Probe. wrote:
You can't even finish doing your laundry and you want to move out and live by yourself?
good luck.
Hm i should go to work, nah i must finish this game.
Hm i should cook dinner for myself, nah i must micro my muta.
Hm i should probably take a shower, no wait im almost D+!! Just a few more games.
You have a terrible grasp on reality
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Idiocy: nature or nurture? Discuss.
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You actually talked to your dad like that eh? My Dad did a good job raising my brothers and I. And even though I dont live with him (moved out at 18 now 22) I still talk to him with respect. My dad did the same things you described. Its his house, his rules and sc is not as far reaching as showing respect to a parent.
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You shouldn't have talked that way to your dad, but I'm surprised at a lot of the responses in the thread. Judging from their posts, there should be no way they've ever gotten into a spat with their parents. By the way, if you're thinking of having a kid and you're planning for that child to be completely obedient, respectful, and have him/her do all the chores, you're probably better off hiring a maid and buying a dog. It's a lot cheaper anyway.
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Baltimore, USA22256 Posts
On November 02 2009 12:11 eMbrace wrote:Show nested quote +On November 02 2009 11:53 EvilTeletubby wrote:On November 02 2009 11:50 SanguineToss wrote:On November 02 2009 11:46 EvilTeletubby wrote:You're an absolute ass; basically an immature teenager. I know because I did the same crap when I was that age... tbh, my Dad put up with a LOT of crap with me, and I honestly don't know if I could do the same. I'm going to guess you're in the 16-19 age range - that being the case, you have very low accountability and responsibilities... real life will hit you in a few years, and then you'll understand, I honestly don't think you would right now. The long and short is that, quite frankly, you are extremely unappreciative of everything you have and that he has done for you - you're young, that's just how it goes. We've all had that attitude, you can ask anyone here who is in their mid twenties and beyond. The best advice I can say is apologize to your father asap. Trust me, it will mean a LOT to him, even if he doesn't show it. In a few years you'll be out on your own and it'll get much better... use this type of thing as motivation to do well with school/work to put yourself in a position to move out. My Dad did a lot for me, but we butted heads all the time, especially over things like how much time I spent playing video games, and things I did or didn't do around the house, and now that I'm out on my own we're real cool all the time he said he was 22. Wow, you're right... I read that like twice and still missed it. In that case, he's an even bigger jackass, and I can see why the Dad is getting so irritated. That's really the age when you really really want to move out and do your own thing. Edit - Catch]22, I'm not trying to come down real hard on you, but as JeeJee previously mentioned, you really need to see this from the other side. One piece of advice I think a lot of people need to realize sooner rather than later is that the world owes you absolutely nothing. It's laundry. This isn't about bowing down to those who shelter you, or sucking up to your boss. It's laundry. It's a task that most human beings can achieve within 60 seconds (I've seen faster, but I don't have proof so don't call me out please). Father or son, you are both human. You don't take your laundry out immediately after it finishes because you are human and spending your time elsewhere. So when someone comes across it, and feels that because they provide for you that you should be be mr.perfect about every little thing -- they are being ridiculous. That being said -- you don't talk back to ridiculous people.
Like I said before, I can guarantee that this isn't the first incident where something like this happened. Yes, it's physically just laundry. But it's the principle that matters.
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Baltimore, USA22256 Posts
On November 02 2009 14:45 foxbearcheetah wrote:
You shouldn't have talked that way to your dad, but I'm surprised at a lot of the responses in the thread. Judging from their posts, there should be no way they've ever gotten into a spat with their parents. By the way, if you're thinking of having a kid and you're planning for that child to be completely obedient, respectful, and have him/her do all the chores, you're probably better off hiring a maid and buying a dog. It's a lot cheaper anyway.
Uh, no? The reason most of us know he is in the wrong is not because ANY of us were ever perfect ourselves, but because we've been in this exact same situation before and probably made the same mistakes, many in the son's position, a few even in the father's position as well.
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*blink*
how many of you defending this guy actually live away from your parents and support yourself on your own fucking dime?
I mean, if i was in this situation (today, not as a teenager), my mom and dad would never ask me to leave a starcraft game to go and do something. that being said. you're a cheeky fucking cunt, and the only reason i wouldn't backhand you is because you'd probably be a whiny faggot and call out abuse or some bullshit.
by the age of 22 i had signed my 2nd 1-year lease. i had been paying all of my own bills - internet, phone, cable, hydro, etc. i was helping my sister through a cocaine addiction. i had let my friend who was depressed and unemployed stay with me in my 350 sq ft. bachelor suite for 6 months - rent free. i had lent out [thousands] of dollars to my parents cause they were in a tough situation. i had negotiated my 2nd contract at a full-time job and probably life-time career. and yes, i even did my laundry. this, in spite of having dropped out of highschool in grade 9.
i don't expect everyone to mature at the same speed, but cmon, you're not 15 anymore. you're 22 years old. stop being a whiny little bitch. If i was your father you would not have a chance to move out, you would be gone. My parents didn't really know what the fuck they were doing - hell, by your age they had already been parents for 2 years. Being an adult at 24 and knowing that i know absolutely fuck all about life gives me a tremendous amount of perspective on their situation; they might not have been good parents, but that was because they were fucking children when they had children.
i think you anger me so much because i was exactly like you when i was 15 years old. i am so thankful i've had a life that has forced me to get with the fucking program.
if you don't like living at home, move the fuck out. i did when i was 18. your father's word is pretty much law unless you're paying your share of the bills.
seriously, when i have kids, they're earning their fucking keep. by the time they can earn their food, they will be earning it. if they want to go to school, they can take out a loan from me or the bank. the idea that my kid would turn out like you is absolutely terrifying, and pushes me in the direction of being an absolute tyrant so they have some idea of integrity, reality, and respect. holy fuck.
edit - wow i'm especially bitchy today. i'm dating this guy who is absolutely horrible in bed. after fooling around for over an hour and him having no idea what the fuck he was doing, i was too irritated to cum. i've been in a bad mood since.
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On November 02 2009 14:11 Xenocide_Knight wrote:Show nested quote +On November 02 2009 13:41 lvatural wrote:On November 02 2009 13:24 Xenocide_Knight wrote:On November 02 2009 13:14 lvatural wrote:On November 02 2009 12:35 Liquid`Drone wrote:On November 02 2009 11:50 JeeJee wrote:On November 02 2009 11:45 Liquid`Drone wrote:
as for the whole "respect your dad because he is your dad", that's a bunch of bullshit, especially when you are 22 years old. if your dad is a jackass, he doesnt deserve your respect. seriously? i don't care how much of an asshole my father is, him providing for me when i was fucking useless to the world is enough to earn my respect and forget any of his little faults for pretty much ever, whether i'm living alone or with him (especially moreso in the latter case) im not saying you shouldnt respect your father if he has some tiny flaws or whatever, but if he's a complete jackass? what if he beats your mom? all im saying is that fatherhood doesn't equal respect by default.. a good dad obviously deserves it, and im not saying op's dad is a bad father or not worthy of respect. just that it's not some kind of default state, respect needs to be earned even for a parent. Disagree. The default state given to your father is respect (of course this extends to the mother as well). Simply put, they're the reason you are here today. They housed, fed, taught, etc.. you for the beginning portion of your life. This in it of itself simply establishes lifetime respect. However, I do believe there are EXCEPTIONS to this, for example beating you or your mom for the hell of it or dumping you in a ditch when you were 9, that would not warrant this respect anymore. But these are only in extreme and narrow cases. A father being a complete jackass, in my opinion, doesn't fit into this category and should still be respected by his kids. Sure, your take on earning respect is reasonable when applied towards unrelated third parties; however, I think a father/mother should not be lumped in the same category. Disagree Respect is ALWAYS earned. no exceptions, parent or not. Same reasoning as you. They are the reason you are here today. YOU didn't choose to have parents or be born, THEY chose to have a child which they KNEW they would have to provide for for years and years. I don't see how that enables automatic respect If you want to get technical read my first paragraph again. The fact that they raised you properly-->immense respect is earning it in your speak. All I'm saying is that generally all parents will do a reasonable job when it comes to raising kids. This simple fact in itself is enough to warrant the lifetime respect I am talking about regardless of any inherent personality flaw like being a complete jackass. Remember that I'm not talking about extreme cases of egregious conduct by the parent. Also, I disagree with you saying that respect is ALWAYS earned but that's a bitch to get into right now so lets just say we're of differing opinions. Doing a reasonable job of raising a child to the best of their abilities is what they agree to do when they have a child.. Thats why when they don't do a reasonable job of raising a child, there are laws against that and the government (hopefully) intervenes. Because the parents didn't uphold their bargain. I just can't give someone respect because they did what they agreed to do. The way I see it, a child is raised and provided for while doing nothing in return for their parents. This is an equal footing situation. In an equal to equal interaction, there either has to be mutual respect or respect has to be earned both ways.
You make it sound like there was some kind of binding contract between the parents and the unborn child. How can both parties agree to something when the child isn't even born yet? How can parents uphold a bargain when none existed in the first place? This analogy makes no sense to me because in your scenario one party doesn't even exist when the contract was made.
But I think I do understand the general idea you are purporting, and I still disagree. Simply to say that, "it is the parent's job to raise a child properly and, thus, doing so does not deserve any respect" is a really crude way to look at things.
That's analogous to saying that, "a fireman saving people's lives doesn't deserve any respect because it is a part of his job description" is simply nonsense. The fact that the fireman DECIDED to take this job and perform it REASONABLY is why the respect is given. Would you say that a person that is not a fireman that did exactly the same thing would warrant more respect? Possibly but it would be hard to say that simply because a man is labeled as a 'fireman' and does the same thing he should receive NO respect.
The fact that the parent decided to undertake this difficult "job" and accomplished it reasonably in it of itself is deserving of a large amount of respect.
Equal footing? There is no equal footing, the parents have the child by the balls thousand to one.
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On November 02 2009 14:50 EvilTeletubby wrote:Show nested quote +On November 02 2009 12:11 eMbrace wrote:On November 02 2009 11:53 EvilTeletubby wrote:On November 02 2009 11:50 SanguineToss wrote:On November 02 2009 11:46 EvilTeletubby wrote:You're an absolute ass; basically an immature teenager. I know because I did the same crap when I was that age... tbh, my Dad put up with a LOT of crap with me, and I honestly don't know if I could do the same. I'm going to guess you're in the 16-19 age range - that being the case, you have very low accountability and responsibilities... real life will hit you in a few years, and then you'll understand, I honestly don't think you would right now. The long and short is that, quite frankly, you are extremely unappreciative of everything you have and that he has done for you - you're young, that's just how it goes. We've all had that attitude, you can ask anyone here who is in their mid twenties and beyond. The best advice I can say is apologize to your father asap. Trust me, it will mean a LOT to him, even if he doesn't show it. In a few years you'll be out on your own and it'll get much better... use this type of thing as motivation to do well with school/work to put yourself in a position to move out. My Dad did a lot for me, but we butted heads all the time, especially over things like how much time I spent playing video games, and things I did or didn't do around the house, and now that I'm out on my own we're real cool all the time he said he was 22. Wow, you're right... I read that like twice and still missed it. In that case, he's an even bigger jackass, and I can see why the Dad is getting so irritated. That's really the age when you really really want to move out and do your own thing. Edit - Catch]22, I'm not trying to come down real hard on you, but as JeeJee previously mentioned, you really need to see this from the other side. One piece of advice I think a lot of people need to realize sooner rather than later is that the world owes you absolutely nothing. It's laundry. This isn't about bowing down to those who shelter you, or sucking up to your boss. It's laundry. It's a task that most human beings can achieve within 60 seconds (I've seen faster, but I don't have proof so don't call me out please). Father or son, you are both human. You don't take your laundry out immediately after it finishes because you are human and spending your time elsewhere. So when someone comes across it, and feels that because they provide for you that you should be be mr.perfect about every little thing -- they are being ridiculous. That being said -- you don't talk back to ridiculous people. Like I said before, I can guarantee that this isn't the first incident where something like this happened. Yes, it's physically just laundry. But it's the principle that matters.
What I was getting at is that they both need to step back and realize what stress is doing to them.
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Baltimore, USA22256 Posts
LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL Mora <3
Btw moved to Blogs
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On November 02 2009 14:52 EvilTeletubby wrote:Show nested quote +On November 02 2009 14:45 foxbearcheetah wrote:
You shouldn't have talked that way to your dad, but I'm surprised at a lot of the responses in the thread. Judging from their posts, there should be no way they've ever gotten into a spat with their parents. By the way, if you're thinking of having a kid and you're planning for that child to be completely obedient, respectful, and have him/her do all the chores, you're probably better off hiring a maid and buying a dog. It's a lot cheaper anyway. Uh, no? The reason most of us know he is in the wrong is not because ANY of us were ever perfect ourselves, but because we've been in this exact same situation before and probably made the same mistakes, many in the son's position, a few even in the father's position as well.
That's what I was getting at. A lot of people are ignoring that fact and imo being too harsh on the OP. Reading something along the lines of "you little ingrate you came out of your dad's balls stfu" it really pisses me off that they're advocating that staunch authoritarian view.
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On November 02 2009 14:56 lvatural wrote:Show nested quote +On November 02 2009 14:11 Xenocide_Knight wrote:On November 02 2009 13:41 lvatural wrote:On November 02 2009 13:24 Xenocide_Knight wrote:On November 02 2009 13:14 lvatural wrote:On November 02 2009 12:35 Liquid`Drone wrote:On November 02 2009 11:50 JeeJee wrote:On November 02 2009 11:45 Liquid`Drone wrote:
as for the whole "respect your dad because he is your dad", that's a bunch of bullshit, especially when you are 22 years old. if your dad is a jackass, he doesnt deserve your respect. seriously? i don't care how much of an asshole my father is, him providing for me when i was fucking useless to the world is enough to earn my respect and forget any of his little faults for pretty much ever, whether i'm living alone or with him (especially moreso in the latter case) im not saying you shouldnt respect your father if he has some tiny flaws or whatever, but if he's a complete jackass? what if he beats your mom? all im saying is that fatherhood doesn't equal respect by default.. a good dad obviously deserves it, and im not saying op's dad is a bad father or not worthy of respect. just that it's not some kind of default state, respect needs to be earned even for a parent. Disagree. The default state given to your father is respect (of course this extends to the mother as well). Simply put, they're the reason you are here today. They housed, fed, taught, etc.. you for the beginning portion of your life. This in it of itself simply establishes lifetime respect. However, I do believe there are EXCEPTIONS to this, for example beating you or your mom for the hell of it or dumping you in a ditch when you were 9, that would not warrant this respect anymore. But these are only in extreme and narrow cases. A father being a complete jackass, in my opinion, doesn't fit into this category and should still be respected by his kids. Sure, your take on earning respect is reasonable when applied towards unrelated third parties; however, I think a father/mother should not be lumped in the same category. Disagree Respect is ALWAYS earned. no exceptions, parent or not. Same reasoning as you. They are the reason you are here today. YOU didn't choose to have parents or be born, THEY chose to have a child which they KNEW they would have to provide for for years and years. I don't see how that enables automatic respect If you want to get technical read my first paragraph again. The fact that they raised you properly-->immense respect is earning it in your speak. All I'm saying is that generally all parents will do a reasonable job when it comes to raising kids. This simple fact in itself is enough to warrant the lifetime respect I am talking about regardless of any inherent personality flaw like being a complete jackass. Remember that I'm not talking about extreme cases of egregious conduct by the parent. Also, I disagree with you saying that respect is ALWAYS earned but that's a bitch to get into right now so lets just say we're of differing opinions. Doing a reasonable job of raising a child to the best of their abilities is what they agree to do when they have a child.. Thats why when they don't do a reasonable job of raising a child, there are laws against that and the government (hopefully) intervenes. Because the parents didn't uphold their bargain. I just can't give someone respect because they did what they agreed to do. The way I see it, a child is raised and provided for while doing nothing in return for their parents. This is an equal footing situation. In an equal to equal interaction, there either has to be mutual respect or respect has to be earned both ways. You make it sound like there was some kind of binding contract between the parents and the unborn child. How can both parties agree to something when the child isn't even born yet? How can parents uphold a bargain when none existed in the first place? This analogy makes no sense to me because in your scenario one party doesn't even exist when the contract was made. But I think I do understand the general idea you are purporting, and I still disagree. Simply to say that, "it is the parent's job to raise a child properly and, thus, doing so does not deserve any respect" is a really crude way to look at things. That's analogous to saying that, "a fireman saving people's lives doesn't deserve any respect because it is a part of his job description" is simply nonsense. The fact that the fireman DECIDED to take this job and perform it REASONABLY is why the respect is given. Would you say that a person that is not a fireman that did exactly the same thing would warrant more respect? Possibly but it would be hard to say that simply because a man is labeled as a 'fireman' and does the same thing he should receive NO respect. The fact that the parent decided to undertake this difficult "job" and accomplished it reasonably in it of itself is deserving of a large amount of respect. Equal footing? There is no equal footing, the parents have the child by the balls thousand to one.
And just because the fireman saved your life doesn't mean he should demand free food when you are working at your food service job.
Are you going to give him the free stuff? Sure you are, he saved your life after all -- but he is guilt tripping you by making you do unreasonable tasks simply because he did his job properly.
Making someone run down to a washing machine to place a towel in the dryer adjacent to it is unreasonable.
this is more about stress control issues that both the father and son have.
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YOU ARE A FUKIN ASS.
Stop complaining to us, pull that stick out of our ass, get off your highhorse, and suck it up.
He's your father. How do you think he feels when he sees his 22 year old son playing a video game and bad mouthing him at the same time. He's provided for you his whole life. You're dad is probably getting old, he works to support you and your family, he deserves better than what you've giving him.
Show some deference and be a son a father would be proud of. That doesn't mean being a smartass.
No one gives a shit that you were in some intense marine v muta battle. What's more importan, trying to win some meaningless game that you can play 100 times over or showing your dad some decency.Heck, parents don't live forever you know.
God your blog pissed me off
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On November 02 2009 15:02 ProbeSaturation wrote:
YOU ARE A FUKIN ASS.
Stop complaining to us, pull that stick out of our ass, get off your highhorse, and suck it up.
He's your father. How do you think he feels when he sees his 22 year old son playing a video game and bad mouthing him at the same time. He's provided for you his whole life. You're dad is probably getting old, he works to support you and your family, he deserves better than what you've giving him.
Show some deference and be a son a father would be proud of. That doesn't mean being a smartass.
No one gives a shit that you were in some intense marine v muta battle. What's more importan, trying to win some meaningless game that you can play 100 times over or showing your dad some decency.Heck, parents don't live forever you know.
God your blog pissed me off
we all know the OP did not act properly -- neither did the father.
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51490 Posts
living with your parents when you are 22
lol
edit: also mora that is the MOST RANDOM EDIT i've ever read on this site.
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The father didn't do anything wrong.
Heck the OP probably tried to twist the story in his favor in the best way possible and he still made himself look like the biggest douche.
If your dad asks you to do something as trivial as emptying the wash, just take the 5 minutes and do it. I'd understand if he was thirteen or something, but this guy is 22.
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On November 02 2009 15:10 GTR wrote:
living with your parents when you are 22
lol
edit: also mora that is the MOST RANDOM EDIT i've ever read on this site.
laughing at people who live with their parents straight out of college doesn't seem like a very nice thing to do.
most of my older brothers and sisters had to stay around for a bit before they could find somewhere to live and a job -- i'd imagine it would be very stressful.
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On November 02 2009 15:10 GTR wrote:
living with your parents when you are 22
lol
edit: also mora that is the MOST RANDOM EDIT i've ever read on this site.
It's not uncommon. Are you serious?
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On November 02 2009 15:19 Amnesia wrote:Show nested quote +On November 02 2009 15:10 GTR wrote:
living with your parents when you are 22
lol
edit: also mora that is the MOST RANDOM EDIT i've ever read on this site. It's not uncommon. Are you serious?
why wouldn't he be? the job market is flourishing right now.
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On November 02 2009 15:19 Amnesia wrote:Show nested quote +On November 02 2009 15:10 GTR wrote:
living with your parents when you are 22
lol
edit: also mora that is the MOST RANDOM EDIT i've ever read on this site. It's not uncommon. Are you serious?
which part of his post isn't uncommon, living with your parents when you are 22 or mora editing gay things into his posts?
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On November 02 2009 15:15 eMbrace wrote:Show nested quote +On November 02 2009 15:10 GTR wrote:
living with your parents when you are 22
lol
edit: also mora that is the MOST RANDOM EDIT i've ever read on this site. laughing at people who live with their parents straight out of college doesn't seem like a very nice thing to do. most of my older brothers and sisters had to stay around for a bit before they could find somewhere to live and a job -- i'd imagine it would be very stressful.
i disagree.
moving out when they were out of highschool, working a minimum wage job, trying to find happiness in such a depressing situation - that would be stressful.
staying at home with your rents so you can live a pampered luxurious life forever afterwards?
Perhaps we just have a different definition of stress.
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On November 02 2009 15:21 Nitrogen wrote:Show nested quote +On November 02 2009 15:19 Amnesia wrote:On November 02 2009 15:10 GTR wrote:
living with your parents when you are 22
lol
edit: also mora that is the MOST RANDOM EDIT i've ever read on this site. It's not uncommon. Are you serious? which part of his post isn't uncommon, living with your parents when you are 22 or mora editing gay things into his posts?
The first part.
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On November 02 2009 15:21 Nitrogen wrote:Show nested quote +On November 02 2009 15:19 Amnesia wrote:On November 02 2009 15:10 GTR wrote:
living with your parents when you are 22
lol
edit: also mora that is the MOST RANDOM EDIT i've ever read on this site. It's not uncommon. Are you serious? which part of his post isn't uncommon, living with your parents when you are 22 or mora editing gay things into his posts?
haha yeah, im curious too.
neither are particularly uncommon. lol
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On November 02 2009 15:21 Mora wrote:Show nested quote +On November 02 2009 15:15 eMbrace wrote:On November 02 2009 15:10 GTR wrote:
living with your parents when you are 22
lol
edit: also mora that is the MOST RANDOM EDIT i've ever read on this site. laughing at people who live with their parents straight out of college doesn't seem like a very nice thing to do. most of my older brothers and sisters had to stay around for a bit before they could find somewhere to live and a job -- i'd imagine it would be very stressful. i disagree. moving out when they were out of highschool, working a minimum wage job, trying to find happiness in such a depressing situation - that would be stressful. staying at home with your rents so you can live a pampered luxurious life forever afterwards? Perhaps we just have a different definition of stress.
yes, i get it -- anyone who had a smoother raising than you did is a lesser human being.
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Osaka27154 Posts
On November 02 2009 13:24 Xenocide_Knight wrote:Show nested quote +On November 02 2009 13:14 lvatural wrote:On November 02 2009 12:35 Liquid`Drone wrote:On November 02 2009 11:50 JeeJee wrote:On November 02 2009 11:45 Liquid`Drone wrote:
as for the whole "respect your dad because he is your dad", that's a bunch of bullshit, especially when you are 22 years old. if your dad is a jackass, he doesnt deserve your respect. seriously? i don't care how much of an asshole my father is, him providing for me when i was fucking useless to the world is enough to earn my respect and forget any of his little faults for pretty much ever, whether i'm living alone or with him (especially moreso in the latter case) im not saying you shouldnt respect your father if he has some tiny flaws or whatever, but if he's a complete jackass? what if he beats your mom? all im saying is that fatherhood doesn't equal respect by default.. a good dad obviously deserves it, and im not saying op's dad is a bad father or not worthy of respect. just that it's not some kind of default state, respect needs to be earned even for a parent. Disagree. The default state given to your father is respect (of course this extends to the mother as well). Simply put, they're the reason you are here today. They housed, fed, taught, etc.. you for the beginning portion of your life. This in it of itself simply establishes lifetime respect. However, I do believe there are EXCEPTIONS to this, for example beating you or your mom for the hell of it or dumping you in a ditch when you were 9, that would not warrant this respect anymore. But these are only in extreme and narrow cases. A father being a complete jackass, in my opinion, doesn't fit into this category and should still be respected by his kids. Sure, your take on earning respect is reasonable when applied towards unrelated third parties; however, I think a father/mother should not be lumped in the same category. Disagree Respect is ALWAYS earned. no exceptions, parent or not. Same reasoning as you. They are the reason you are here today. YOU didn't choose to have parents or be born, THEY chose to have a child which they KNEW they would have to provide for for years and years. I don't see how that enables automatic respect
Disagree.
Respect is often the default position due to profession, station, or relationship. If you walk into a new class with a professor, you start out with an assumption of respect for him and his knowledge, because of his position. His actions can reinforce or counter that initial respect, but it is there to begin with.
Same goes for when you take a lesson from a martial artist, when you meet a priest, or when you meet a president. The ability to attain a certain position in life gives you respect from the outset of many situations.
An entire swath of our social behaviour is based off this.
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On November 02 2009 15:32 Manifesto7 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 02 2009 13:24 Xenocide_Knight wrote:On November 02 2009 13:14 lvatural wrote:On November 02 2009 12:35 Liquid`Drone wrote:On November 02 2009 11:50 JeeJee wrote:On November 02 2009 11:45 Liquid`Drone wrote:
as for the whole "respect your dad because he is your dad", that's a bunch of bullshit, especially when you are 22 years old. if your dad is a jackass, he doesnt deserve your respect. seriously? i don't care how much of an asshole my father is, him providing for me when i was fucking useless to the world is enough to earn my respect and forget any of his little faults for pretty much ever, whether i'm living alone or with him (especially moreso in the latter case) im not saying you shouldnt respect your father if he has some tiny flaws or whatever, but if he's a complete jackass? what if he beats your mom? all im saying is that fatherhood doesn't equal respect by default.. a good dad obviously deserves it, and im not saying op's dad is a bad father or not worthy of respect. just that it's not some kind of default state, respect needs to be earned even for a parent. Disagree. The default state given to your father is respect (of course this extends to the mother as well). Simply put, they're the reason you are here today. They housed, fed, taught, etc.. you for the beginning portion of your life. This in it of itself simply establishes lifetime respect. However, I do believe there are EXCEPTIONS to this, for example beating you or your mom for the hell of it or dumping you in a ditch when you were 9, that would not warrant this respect anymore. But these are only in extreme and narrow cases. A father being a complete jackass, in my opinion, doesn't fit into this category and should still be respected by his kids. Sure, your take on earning respect is reasonable when applied towards unrelated third parties; however, I think a father/mother should not be lumped in the same category. Disagree Respect is ALWAYS earned. no exceptions, parent or not. Same reasoning as you. They are the reason you are here today. YOU didn't choose to have parents or be born, THEY chose to have a child which they KNEW they would have to provide for for years and years. I don't see how that enables automatic respect Disagree. Respect is often the default position due to profession, station, or relationship. If you walk into a new class with a professor, you start out with an assumption of respect for him and his knowledge, because of his position. His actions can reinforce or counter that initial respect, but it is there to begin with. Same goes for when you take a lesson from a martial artist, when you meet a priest, or when you meet a president. The ability to attain a certain position in life gives you respect from the outset of many situations. An entire swath of our social behaviour is based off this.
While I agree with you, I don't think it's the healthiest way to run a household. Of course, I don't have a right to have an opinion on this as of now.
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only people in third world countries who are near-starvation or have suffered from things on that order of magnitude are allowed to be indignant, angry, or depressed
everyone else is a pussy and should suck it up
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On November 02 2009 15:22 eMbrace wrote:Show nested quote +On November 02 2009 15:21 Mora wrote:On November 02 2009 15:15 eMbrace wrote:On November 02 2009 15:10 GTR wrote:
living with your parents when you are 22
lol
edit: also mora that is the MOST RANDOM EDIT i've ever read on this site. laughing at people who live with their parents straight out of college doesn't seem like a very nice thing to do. most of my older brothers and sisters had to stay around for a bit before they could find somewhere to live and a job -- i'd imagine it would be very stressful. i disagree. moving out when they were out of highschool, working a minimum wage job, trying to find happiness in such a depressing situation - that would be stressful. staying at home with your rents so you can live a pampered luxurious life forever afterwards? Perhaps we just have a different definition of stress. yes, i get it -- anyone who had a smoother raising than you did is a lesser human being.
I missed your point.
Are you saying that people who had a smoother raising than me have a right to cry when their parents ask them to do chores? And that if i disagree with them, it's because i think they're inferior to me?
really?
Please tell me i missed the fucking boat on that one.
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Osaka27154 Posts
On November 02 2009 14:53 Mora wrote:
seriously, when i have kids, they're earning their fucking keep. by the time they can earn their food, they will be earning it. if they want to go to school, they can take out a loan from me or the bank. the idea that my kid would turn out like you is absolutely terrifying, and pushes me in the direction of being an absolute tyrant so they have some idea of integrity, reality, and respect. holy fuck.
edit - wow i'm especially bitchy today. i'm dating this guy who is absolutely horrible in bed. after fooling around for over an hour and him having no idea what the fuck he was doing, i was too irritated to cum. i've been in a bad mood since.
Knowing that you are a guy, these two sentences seem to contradict each other mightily.
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On November 02 2009 15:40 Manifesto7 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 02 2009 14:53 Mora wrote:
seriously, when i have kids, they're earning their fucking keep. by the time they can earn their food, they will be earning it. if they want to go to school, they can take out a loan from me or the bank. the idea that my kid would turn out like you is absolutely terrifying, and pushes me in the direction of being an absolute tyrant so they have some idea of integrity, reality, and respect. holy fuck.
edit - wow i'm especially bitchy today. i'm dating this guy who is absolutely horrible in bed. after fooling around for over an hour and him having no idea what the fuck he was doing, i was too irritated to cum. i've been in a bad mood since. Knowing that you are a guy, these two sentences seem to contradict each other mightily.
Hmmm... Well i'm hoping that by the time i want kids, it will be legal for two men to be married and adopt a kid. I don't know if it's legal now, but i don't think it's too far off.
edit - just looked it up on wikipedia - apparently it's already legal!
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On November 02 2009 15:40 Mora wrote:
And that if i disagree with them, it's because i think they're inferior to me?
really?
Please tell me i missed the fucking boat on that one.
yes you did
the conclusion we drew as to your motives did not arise from your disagreement but rather the fact that you disagreed in a post that was fairly obviously dripping with condescension
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Jesus the OP is a whiny baby. 22 and still mooching off parents, and not even grateful about it.. the very definition of a loser.
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On November 02 2009 15:10 GTR wrote:
living with your parents when you are 22
lol
edit: also mora that is the MOST RANDOM EDIT i've ever read on this site.
im going to laugh so much when you're 22 and living with your parents
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On November 02 2009 15:46 WhiteNights wrote:Show nested quote +On November 02 2009 15:40 Mora wrote:
And that if i disagree with them, it's because i think they're inferior to me?
really?
Please tell me i missed the fucking boat on that one. yes you did the conclusion we drew as to your motives did not arise from your disagreement but rather the fact that you disagreed in a post that was fairly obviously dripping with condescension
i've attempted to reply to this several times, but end up deleting it due to my uncertainty of my interpretation. So i'll just ask for you to elaborate.
Are you referring to my first response to this thread, or the post that Embrace responded to?
In the case of the former, i can't disagree with you. I was condescending - probably more than i should have been - and should probably apologize for that (though i'm not ready to do so yet).
In the case of the latter, i was not condescending at all. I was not forced to work a minimum wage job, nor has my search for happiness been difficult. The post was inspired from quite the opposite - i feel i've had a lucky and pampered life, and feel that only people who've had a hard one should be complaining. Unless this post was sarcastic, i pretty much agree with the sentiments you stated here:
On November 02 2009 15:36 WhiteNights wrote:
only people in third world countries who are near-starvation or have suffered from things on that order of magnitude are allowed to be indignant, angry, or depressed
everyone else is a pussy and should suck it up
However, after reading your most recent blog, i'm now inclined to believe you were being sarcastic.
For what it's worth, it was not my intention to make you feel inferior to me. Upon re-reading my post, it's certainly understandable why one might think so.
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according to TL.net, between a third and half of people who graduate in college in any given year are pussies
[edit] Okay, I didn't see your recent post; I will write a serious response in short order. Wait for the edit.
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Osaka27154 Posts
On November 02 2009 16:16 WhiteNights wrote:
according to TL.net, between a third and half of people who graduate in college in any given year are pussies
Seems about right.
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On November 02 2009 15:40 Mora wrote:Show nested quote +On November 02 2009 15:22 eMbrace wrote:On November 02 2009 15:21 Mora wrote:On November 02 2009 15:15 eMbrace wrote:On November 02 2009 15:10 GTR wrote:
living with your parents when you are 22
lol
edit: also mora that is the MOST RANDOM EDIT i've ever read on this site. laughing at people who live with their parents straight out of college doesn't seem like a very nice thing to do. most of my older brothers and sisters had to stay around for a bit before they could find somewhere to live and a job -- i'd imagine it would be very stressful. i disagree. moving out when they were out of highschool, working a minimum wage job, trying to find happiness in such a depressing situation - that would be stressful. staying at home with your rents so you can live a pampered luxurious life forever afterwards? Perhaps we just have a different definition of stress. yes, i get it -- anyone who had a smoother raising than you did is a lesser human being. I missed your point. Are you saying that people who had a smoother raising than me have a right to cry when their parents ask them to do chores? And that if i disagree with them, it's because i think they're inferior to me? really? Please tell me i missed the fucking boat on that one.
I'm glad I read your post below because based purely on your original post, I did indeed get the condescending attitude from you.
I do disagree with what I quoted before though. How can you say your situation is more stressful than another? Because your life was "tougher"? Kids in Japan have hung themselves if they score low on their big entry exams -- some kids in Africa are pretty damn happy to find something to eat for the day.
Who is more stressed out? Well it depends on the life they were born into. For some people, graduating college with mounds of debt and having the possibility that you may not be able to take off as a successful individual, and instead be laughed at because you live with your parents is the worst feeling in the world.
so having someone come in and say, "lol stop crying pussy, I had to live by myself at the age of 18," is just cruel.
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Now on the OP's specific problem, I again disagree on bashing the shit out him. He wrote his situation in such a humanly reasonably way that it's kind of hard not to understand his situation -- he even admitted he made an error in judgment. hell, the name of his thread was "am I an ass?"
I don't agree that his father owns his soul and that he is immune to judgment. bitching about moving a towel in a washing machine to the dryer adjacent to it is petty, immature, and an example of terrible stress control.
talking back to the parent is an example of being an immature brat as well.
they both screwed up -- but it's easy to understand both of them. the dad is in a hurry and is stressed out, he gives into that stress and makes a BS call on his son to due a menial task -- and the OP finally decided to call him out on something and overstepped his line as a son by doing it in a disrespectful manner.
yes, you can come in here and tell the OP how lucky he is to be in such a "luxurious" situation and that he should just ignore the flaws of the people who provide for you, but it really doesn't help him at all.
it's been suggested before, and what he should do is sit down and have a beer with his dad and talk about how they can make the rest of the time living together as peaceful and stress free as possible.
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Katowice25012 Posts
I'd be pretty pissed if my roommate left shit in the washer when I needed clean clothes for work, and then mouthed off when I asked if he could take care of the job he started
I'm not sure him being your dad is even relevant in this equation
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On November 02 2009 16:44 heyoka wrote:
I'd be pretty pissed if my roommate left shit in the washer when I needed clean clothes for work, and then mouthed off when I asked if he could take care of the job he started
I'm not sure him being your dad is even relevant in this equation
really? I'd just put his clothes aside and get on with my life.
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51490 Posts
On November 02 2009 16:10 Ilikestarcraft wrote:Show nested quote +On November 02 2009 15:10 GTR wrote:
living with your parents when you are 22
lol
edit: also mora that is the MOST RANDOM EDIT i've ever read on this site. im going to laugh so much when you're 22 and living with your parents
lets make a bet on that sir.
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On November 02 2009 16:16 Mora wrote:Show nested quote +On November 02 2009 15:46 WhiteNights wrote:On November 02 2009 15:40 Mora wrote:
And that if i disagree with them, it's because i think they're inferior to me?
really?
Please tell me i missed the fucking boat on that one. yes you did the conclusion we drew as to your motives did not arise from your disagreement but rather the fact that you disagreed in a post that was fairly obviously dripping with condescension i've attempted to reply to this several times, but end up deleting it due to my uncertainty of my interpretation. So i'll just ask for you to elaborate. Are you referring to my first response to this thread, or the post that Embrace responded to? In the case of the former, i can't disagree with you. I was condescending - probably more than i should have been - and should probably apologize for that (though i'm not ready to do so yet). In the case of the latter, i was not condescending at all. I was not forced to work a minimum wage job, nor has my search for happiness been difficult. The post was inspired from quite the opposite - i feel i've had a lucky and pampered life, and feel that only people who've had a hard one should be complaining. Unless this post was sarcastic, i pretty much agree with the sentiments you stated here:
My first post was written in kind of a douche fashion but it wasn't in sarcasm. It was directed somewhat ambiguously at both but "so you can live a pampered luxurious life forever afterwards" sounds rather judgmental, even in the tempered second post. I am sort of annoyed at this point for a reason that has nothing to do with you, but while I'm taking the time to write this I might as well write what prompted it: we've recently had a wave of suicides in a nearby wealthy suburban community and I've been reading comments posted like "these kids live perfect lives, the ungrateful bastards; I wonder what they would do if they had real problems to contend with or if we shipped them to a third-world country to see what real problems are like" and I just sort of stand there somewhat dumb-founded; of course these kids had problems; I'm sure that they would rather lose all their material possessions than die, so there must have been something definitely wrong; the implication that people can't have problems if they come from a more privileged background is simply ruffling some feathers by association (and I realize you're not saying this, it's just sort of what I was thinking at the time; and of course our original poster seems to have no major problems, so it's almost an aside.)
On November 02 2009 16:16 Mora wrote:Show nested quote +On November 02 2009 15:36 WhiteNights wrote:
only people in third world countries who are near-starvation or have suffered from things on that order of magnitude are allowed to be indignant, angry, or depressed
everyone else is a pussy and should suck it up However, after reading your most recent blog, i'm now inclined to believe you were being sarcastic. For what it's worth, it was not my intention to make you feel inferior to me. Upon re-reading my post, it's certainly understandable why one might think so.
It's okay; I am being perfectly honest (please don't take this as sarcasm) when I say that by any objective measure (as should be evident from my blog), I am inferior to you. I also have had a massive inferiority complex for a few years so it doesn't bother me at all; if you were to bitch me out personally I would agree with you that I thoroughly deserve it.
I don't bitch often. My blog post marks just about the first time when I have seriously and thoroughly complained about my life. In retrospect, it's fucking retarded and I should suck it up. The second post that you quoted was originally written in sarcasm but I do agree with it with respect to myself - whenever I start to feel angry, indignant, or depressed, I tell myself to stop because it means I'm an ungrateful sonofabitch who doesn't deserve a thing he has.
It sounds retarded but the reason I object to your statement is that there are other people out there (who are very much not me) who do grow up in privilege who nevertheless have actual problems and face hardships, so the phrase "pampered luxurious life forever," originally came off to me as "these guys have no problems ever". Who would I be if I were to look at somebody who contemplates suicide on daily basis because of something as trivial as being bullied at school, or somebody who is absolutely destroyed because their cat died, and dismiss that suffering with "fucking suck it up, you don't know how good you have it"? That sort of attitude is absolutely anathema to me. The only thing that is absolutely guaranteed to piss me off is judgmental arrogance, which was what your post read like to me when I first saw it.
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I'm glad I read your post below because based purely on your original post, I did indeed get the condescending attitude from you.
I do disagree with what I quoted before though. How can you say your situation is more stressful than another? Because your life was "tougher"? Kids in Japan have hung themselves if they score low on their big entry exams -- some kids in Africa are pretty damn happy to find something to eat for the day.
I cannot imagine the stress those Japanese students feel when such a thing happens to them. I'm not being facetious when i say that that is much more stressful than anything i have ever been through. I cannot imagine that starving ethiopians trying to find food every day is any more stressful than that Japanese student - but still much more stressful than anything i've ever experienced.
I'm sorry, but i just can't equate those two scenarios with the one quoted in the original post. Being told to leave a Starcraft game and put in a load of laundry that you were too lazy/busy/forgetful/pre-occupied/shitting/masturbating/whatever-the-fuck-you-were-doing to do, is just not on the same level.
Who is more stressed out? Well it depends on the life they were born into. For some people, graduating college with mounds of debt and having the possibility that you may not be able to take off as a successful individual, and instead be laughed at because you live with your parents is the worst feeling in the world.
I have to disagree here. It isn't the worst feeling in the world. You may only think it is. When it comes to gaining perspective on past experiences that seemed universe-consuming, i have much experience.
to site an example from my past: i used to have extreme anxiety problems. In particular, i found public transit absolutely mind-blowingly horrifying. I had several unfortunate and traumatic experiences on public transit when i was in elementary school, and that fear continued into early adulthood. Before dropping out of highschool, my father would sometimes try to force me to catch the school-bus to get to school. I cannot count the amount of times i literally shit my pants at the bus stop, in front of my peers, because the thought of getting on the bus was that horrifying to me. I trained myself to puke at roughly that same age, so that when i told my parents i was too sick to go to school, that i could demonstrate my authenticity by spewing projectile vomit on them. Sometimes i abused this knack to exploit my desire to play Starcraft instead of going to school, but i would say the majority of the time i used this 'skill' in my own defense - that going to school was truly terrifying and horrifying. Since those years of my life, i have only experienced one thing that was any where near as debilitating (which i wrote about here if you're interested).
Despite that, i truly think that simply having to go out on my own and be wholly supportive of myself dwarfs that reality tremendously. Doing so has not been more stressful, but it's definitely been eye-opening. Making that decision for oneself is what i'm referring to. If the thread starter thinks it's that bad, he should do exactly that. Suck it up and move out. If he doesn't think it's that bad, he needs to do something or think of something to give him perspective that being told to do laundry in the middle of a Starcraft game just isn't that big of a deal. There may be other compounding problems with the relationship with his father, and those may be absolutely legitimate - but he didn't come here posting about those. He came to us with this story. This is representative of his maturity and tl.net is largely inhospitable towards such individuals. Instead of holding his hand and politely telling him to grow the fuck up, our patience is lost upon acknowledging that he's 22 years old.
so having someone come in and say, "lol stop crying pussy, I had to live by myself at the age of 18," is just cruel.
I agree with you. It was cruel and it was intended to be cruel. He's 22, he needs to grow up. Hopefully i will be better able to cope and help my kid if he ends up in a similar situation - even more hopefully, it will be avoided altogether.
Now on the OP's specific problem, I again disagree on bashing the shit out him. He wrote his situation in such a humanly reasonably way that it's kind of hard not to understand his situation -- he even admitted he made an error in judgment.
I don't agree that his father owns his soul and that he is immune to judgment. bitching about moving a towel in a washing machine to the dryer adjacent to it is petty, immature, and an example of terrible stress control.
talking back to the parent is an example of being an immature brat as well.
they both screwed up -- but it's easy to understand both of them. the dad is in a hurry and is stressed out, he gives into that stress and makes a BS call on his son to due a menial task -- and the OP finally decided to call him out on something and overstepped his line as a son by doing it in a disrespectful manner.
yes, you can come in here and tell the OP how lucky he is to be in such a "luxurious" situation and that he should just ignore the flaws of the people who provide for you, but it really doesn't help him at all.
it's been suggested before, and what he should do is sit down and have a beer with his dad and talk about how they can make the rest of the time living together as peaceful and stress free as possible
I deal with this more harshly than you do. If his father had come in here and complained about his laundry-ignoring-starcraft-playing son, i would have laid into him FAR more harshly than i did the original poster. But his dad wasn't the one to come in here. I hope that if his father complains to his friends about his situation, that they do exactly that.
There's no point in telling this kid that his father is in the wrong. It changes the topic of conversation from what it should be about. This isn't about his father being right or wrong, this is about the original poster taking responsibility for the situation and his life.
i hope this was coherent.
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@Mora
I'm glad you agreed with my point that just because someone lives in a well off family, doesn't mean they are any happier then someone in poverty. However, when I was talking about that, I wasn't referring to the OP's laundry situation -- it was specifically about making fun of people who still live with their parents -- which I strongly disagree with (depending on the circumstances).
For some people it means they have failed at their very life, sounds silly doesn't it? Not to them.
That's why I said it was cruel to call them a pussy, and it definitely doesn't make you look like the mature person you claim to be.
That's all I was saying there -- and yeah, the OP's specific problem isn't a very stressful one considering the life he lives -- but that doesn't mean we can't talk about it as a real (albeit minor) relationship problem.
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I create that line because it is my primitive representation that I am dealing with two different topics here, and I don't want them to blend (like they unfortunately have).
So moving on to his specific issue again -- I do think it is fair to point of the flaw of the parent, as well as the OP's.
Most people who lead lives with any sort of meaning don't usually watch their laundry until it finishes and take it out -- especially in their own family's household, where you should feel comfortable with each other.
now you look at this thread in disgust because a 22 year old is complaining about a household chore.
i see it as a stress control issue, and I think it is important that the OP recognizes flaws in his parents and learns from them (as well as recognizing his own flaws into how he talks to his parents). the OP was gladly planning on finishing his own laundry -- he's 22 after all, but in the middle of something that's important to him he is called upon to do something ridiculous.
this doesn't warrant name calling the OP.
saying his situation isn't a problem and he needs to grow up isn't understanding the situation.
saying he needs to grow up because he should be able to handle these situations with his father in an adult way makes a lot more sense.
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Wow Mora I'm so relieved I'm not your son. I'm so tired of all the talk about respect, most of you North Americans seem to sing in tune about this for some reason.
All people deserve equal respect until they are proven otherwise. Regardless of social position (parenting, job, lifestyle, sexuality, anything). You do not deserve more respect because you successfully moved out from home earlier than he did. A fire-fighter doesn't deserve extra respect because he is saving lives.
He doesn't respect his dad? Who the hell are you to judge? Respect has nothing to do with slaving for your parent or doing what he wants you to do. It'd be one thing if he didn't do the laundry out of dislike for the dad, but it doesn't sound like that at all. I believe the parent-child bond is (or should be) deep enough not to get swayed by useless arguments about daily chores.
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On November 02 2009 17:36 Shauni wrote:
Wow Mora I'm so relieved I'm not your son. I'm so tired of all the talk about respect, most of you North Americans seem to sing in tune about this for some reason.
All people deserve equal respect until they are proven otherwise. Regardless of social position (parenting, job, lifestyle, sexuality, anything). You do not deserve more respect because you successfully moved out from home earlier than he did. A fire-fighter doesn't deserve extra respect because he is saving lives.
He doesn't respect his dad? Who the hell are you to judge? Respect has nothing to do with slaving for your parent or doing what he wants you to do. It'd be one thing if he didn't do the laundry out of dislike for the dad, but it doesn't sound like that at all. I believe the parent-child bond is (or should be) deep enough not to get swayed by useless arguments about daily chores.
"Laundry? FUCK YOU DAD I'M NOT YOUR SLAVE oh yeah where's my dinner? oh btw thanks for letting me live here for free lol"
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On November 02 2009 17:47 psion0011 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 02 2009 17:36 Shauni wrote:
Wow Mora I'm so relieved I'm not your son. I'm so tired of all the talk about respect, most of you North Americans seem to sing in tune about this for some reason.
All people deserve equal respect until they are proven otherwise. Regardless of social position (parenting, job, lifestyle, sexuality, anything). You do not deserve more respect because you successfully moved out from home earlier than he did. A fire-fighter doesn't deserve extra respect because he is saving lives.
He doesn't respect his dad? Who the hell are you to judge? Respect has nothing to do with slaving for your parent or doing what he wants you to do. It'd be one thing if he didn't do the laundry out of dislike for the dad, but it doesn't sound like that at all. I believe the parent-child bond is (or should be) deep enough not to get swayed by useless arguments about daily chores. "Laundry? FUCK YOU DAD I'M NOT YOUR SLAVE oh yeah where's my dinner? oh btw thanks for letting me live here for free lol"
Both of you are twisting this situation into something retarded.
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On November 02 2009 17:49 eMbrace wrote:Show nested quote +On November 02 2009 17:47 psion0011 wrote:On November 02 2009 17:36 Shauni wrote:
Wow Mora I'm so relieved I'm not your son. I'm so tired of all the talk about respect, most of you North Americans seem to sing in tune about this for some reason.
All people deserve equal respect until they are proven otherwise. Regardless of social position (parenting, job, lifestyle, sexuality, anything). You do not deserve more respect because you successfully moved out from home earlier than he did. A fire-fighter doesn't deserve extra respect because he is saving lives.
He doesn't respect his dad? Who the hell are you to judge? Respect has nothing to do with slaving for your parent or doing what he wants you to do. It'd be one thing if he didn't do the laundry out of dislike for the dad, but it doesn't sound like that at all. I believe the parent-child bond is (or should be) deep enough not to get swayed by useless arguments about daily chores. "Laundry? FUCK YOU DAD I'M NOT YOUR SLAVE oh yeah where's my dinner? oh btw thanks for letting me live here for free lol" Both of you are twisting this situation into something retarded.
You have to fight stupid with stupid.
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United States43186 Posts
On November 02 2009 15:32 Manifesto7 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 02 2009 13:24 Xenocide_Knight wrote:On November 02 2009 13:14 lvatural wrote:On November 02 2009 12:35 Liquid`Drone wrote:On November 02 2009 11:50 JeeJee wrote:On November 02 2009 11:45 Liquid`Drone wrote:
as for the whole "respect your dad because he is your dad", that's a bunch of bullshit, especially when you are 22 years old. if your dad is a jackass, he doesnt deserve your respect. seriously? i don't care how much of an asshole my father is, him providing for me when i was fucking useless to the world is enough to earn my respect and forget any of his little faults for pretty much ever, whether i'm living alone or with him (especially moreso in the latter case) im not saying you shouldnt respect your father if he has some tiny flaws or whatever, but if he's a complete jackass? what if he beats your mom? all im saying is that fatherhood doesn't equal respect by default.. a good dad obviously deserves it, and im not saying op's dad is a bad father or not worthy of respect. just that it's not some kind of default state, respect needs to be earned even for a parent. Disagree. The default state given to your father is respect (of course this extends to the mother as well). Simply put, they're the reason you are here today. They housed, fed, taught, etc.. you for the beginning portion of your life. This in it of itself simply establishes lifetime respect. However, I do believe there are EXCEPTIONS to this, for example beating you or your mom for the hell of it or dumping you in a ditch when you were 9, that would not warrant this respect anymore. But these are only in extreme and narrow cases. A father being a complete jackass, in my opinion, doesn't fit into this category and should still be respected by his kids. Sure, your take on earning respect is reasonable when applied towards unrelated third parties; however, I think a father/mother should not be lumped in the same category. Disagree Respect is ALWAYS earned. no exceptions, parent or not. Same reasoning as you. They are the reason you are here today. YOU didn't choose to have parents or be born, THEY chose to have a child which they KNEW they would have to provide for for years and years. I don't see how that enables automatic respect Disagree. Respect is often the default position due to profession, station, or relationship. If you walk into a new class with a professor, you start out with an assumption of respect for him and his knowledge, because of his position. His actions can reinforce or counter that initial respect, but it is there to begin with. Same goes for when you take a lesson from a martial artist, when you meet a priest, or when you meet a president. The ability to attain a certain position in life gives you respect from the outset of many situations. An entire swath of our social behaviour is based off this.
I apply this in theory in as much as I will show a certain degree of deference when I first meet someone with regard to their field of qualification but I lose that very quickly if they don't act in a way I respect. With my parents I was always a child who asked "why?" until I found an answer I could understand. If it made logical sense to me then I would respect the decision. If it did not make logical sense to me then I would debate the decision until they improved their arguments or changed it (they very rarely changed it). If they appealed to the "because I said so" then I dismissed their decision as impossible to make a logical case for and then ignored it out of hand.
I really do not react well to people appealing to their authority without seeing the need to back it up. If their authority is justified then they should be more able than anyone to back up what they claim.
That said, unlike the op I moved out when I was 18 and haven't gone back.
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On November 02 2009 17:49 eMbrace wrote:Show nested quote +On November 02 2009 17:47 psion0011 wrote:On November 02 2009 17:36 Shauni wrote:
Wow Mora I'm so relieved I'm not your son. I'm so tired of all the talk about respect, most of you North Americans seem to sing in tune about this for some reason.
All people deserve equal respect until they are proven otherwise. Regardless of social position (parenting, job, lifestyle, sexuality, anything). You do not deserve more respect because you successfully moved out from home earlier than he did. A fire-fighter doesn't deserve extra respect because he is saving lives.
He doesn't respect his dad? Who the hell are you to judge? Respect has nothing to do with slaving for your parent or doing what he wants you to do. It'd be one thing if he didn't do the laundry out of dislike for the dad, but it doesn't sound like that at all. I believe the parent-child bond is (or should be) deep enough not to get swayed by useless arguments about daily chores. "Laundry? FUCK YOU DAD I'M NOT YOUR SLAVE oh yeah where's my dinner? oh btw thanks for letting me live here for free lol" Both of you are twisting this situation into something retarded.
Where's the retarded part? It's essentially what this is all about. You guys judge him harshly as a failure not only because of his attitude but also because he's 22 and lives at home. I'm just saying that you should throw out your capitalist views about achieving social status before you judge his character.
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On November 02 2009 18:07 Shauni wrote:Show nested quote +On November 02 2009 17:49 eMbrace wrote:On November 02 2009 17:47 psion0011 wrote:On November 02 2009 17:36 Shauni wrote:
Wow Mora I'm so relieved I'm not your son. I'm so tired of all the talk about respect, most of you North Americans seem to sing in tune about this for some reason.
All people deserve equal respect until they are proven otherwise. Regardless of social position (parenting, job, lifestyle, sexuality, anything). You do not deserve more respect because you successfully moved out from home earlier than he did. A fire-fighter doesn't deserve extra respect because he is saving lives.
He doesn't respect his dad? Who the hell are you to judge? Respect has nothing to do with slaving for your parent or doing what he wants you to do. It'd be one thing if he didn't do the laundry out of dislike for the dad, but it doesn't sound like that at all. I believe the parent-child bond is (or should be) deep enough not to get swayed by useless arguments about daily chores. "Laundry? FUCK YOU DAD I'M NOT YOUR SLAVE oh yeah where's my dinner? oh btw thanks for letting me live here for free lol" Both of you are twisting this situation into something retarded. Where's the retarded part? It's essentially what this is all about. You guys judge him harshly as a failure not only because of his attitude but also because he's 22 and lives at home. I'm just saying that you should throw out your capitalist views about achieving social status before you judge his character.
For the price of someone's rent I can hire a maid to do my laundry AND clean my house.
But he's living there for free and you call him a slave, that is what's retarded.
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On November 02 2009 18:07 Shauni wrote:Show nested quote +On November 02 2009 17:49 eMbrace wrote:On November 02 2009 17:47 psion0011 wrote:On November 02 2009 17:36 Shauni wrote:
Wow Mora I'm so relieved I'm not your son. I'm so tired of all the talk about respect, most of you North Americans seem to sing in tune about this for some reason.
All people deserve equal respect until they are proven otherwise. Regardless of social position (parenting, job, lifestyle, sexuality, anything). You do not deserve more respect because you successfully moved out from home earlier than he did. A fire-fighter doesn't deserve extra respect because he is saving lives.
He doesn't respect his dad? Who the hell are you to judge? Respect has nothing to do with slaving for your parent or doing what he wants you to do. It'd be one thing if he didn't do the laundry out of dislike for the dad, but it doesn't sound like that at all. I believe the parent-child bond is (or should be) deep enough not to get swayed by useless arguments about daily chores. "Laundry? FUCK YOU DAD I'M NOT YOUR SLAVE oh yeah where's my dinner? oh btw thanks for letting me live here for free lol" Both of you are twisting this situation into something retarded. Where's the retarded part? It's essentially what this is all about. You guys judge him harshly as a failure not only because of his attitude but also because he's 22 and lives at home. I'm just saying that you should throw out your capitalist views about achieving social status before you judge his character.
If you read the posts I've already made, you'd understand where I'm coming from. Mutual respect is necessary for healthy, father to son relationships.
that doesn't mean your father is perfect, and that you should take his flaws in stride merely because you are living in his house.
he's your dad, your his son -- you are not his employee, and if he is having stress control issues you need to take control of the situation in a way a respectful son would -- talk to him about it.
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On November 02 2009 18:10 psion0011 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 02 2009 18:07 Shauni wrote:On November 02 2009 17:49 eMbrace wrote:On November 02 2009 17:47 psion0011 wrote:On November 02 2009 17:36 Shauni wrote:
Wow Mora I'm so relieved I'm not your son. I'm so tired of all the talk about respect, most of you North Americans seem to sing in tune about this for some reason.
All people deserve equal respect until they are proven otherwise. Regardless of social position (parenting, job, lifestyle, sexuality, anything). You do not deserve more respect because you successfully moved out from home earlier than he did. A fire-fighter doesn't deserve extra respect because he is saving lives.
He doesn't respect his dad? Who the hell are you to judge? Respect has nothing to do with slaving for your parent or doing what he wants you to do. It'd be one thing if he didn't do the laundry out of dislike for the dad, but it doesn't sound like that at all. I believe the parent-child bond is (or should be) deep enough not to get swayed by useless arguments about daily chores. "Laundry? FUCK YOU DAD I'M NOT YOUR SLAVE oh yeah where's my dinner? oh btw thanks for letting me live here for free lol" Both of you are twisting this situation into something retarded. Where's the retarded part? It's essentially what this is all about. You guys judge him harshly as a failure not only because of his attitude but also because he's 22 and lives at home. I'm just saying that you should throw out your capitalist views about achieving social status before you judge his character. For the price of someone's rent I can hire a maid to do my laundry AND clean my house. But he's living there for free and you call him a slave, that is what's retarded.
Do slaves pay rent? Slaves doesn't have any income and they do certainly not get paid for doing chores unlike a maid. They also receive 'free' housing. Don't step on your own foot.
Before you get angry, I'm not saying that he shouldn't do the chores when his dad asks him to, and I only made an extreme parallel to slaving, not saying it has anything to do with his situation. If you get upset over me using the term 'slave', you totally missed my main point.
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On November 02 2009 18:22 Shauni wrote:Show nested quote +On November 02 2009 18:10 psion0011 wrote:On November 02 2009 18:07 Shauni wrote:On November 02 2009 17:49 eMbrace wrote:On November 02 2009 17:47 psion0011 wrote:On November 02 2009 17:36 Shauni wrote:
Wow Mora I'm so relieved I'm not your son. I'm so tired of all the talk about respect, most of you North Americans seem to sing in tune about this for some reason.
All people deserve equal respect until they are proven otherwise. Regardless of social position (parenting, job, lifestyle, sexuality, anything). You do not deserve more respect because you successfully moved out from home earlier than he did. A fire-fighter doesn't deserve extra respect because he is saving lives.
He doesn't respect his dad? Who the hell are you to judge? Respect has nothing to do with slaving for your parent or doing what he wants you to do. It'd be one thing if he didn't do the laundry out of dislike for the dad, but it doesn't sound like that at all. I believe the parent-child bond is (or should be) deep enough not to get swayed by useless arguments about daily chores. "Laundry? FUCK YOU DAD I'M NOT YOUR SLAVE oh yeah where's my dinner? oh btw thanks for letting me live here for free lol" Both of you are twisting this situation into something retarded. Where's the retarded part? It's essentially what this is all about. You guys judge him harshly as a failure not only because of his attitude but also because he's 22 and lives at home. I'm just saying that you should throw out your capitalist views about achieving social status before you judge his character. For the price of someone's rent I can hire a maid to do my laundry AND clean my house. But he's living there for free and you call him a slave, that is what's retarded. Do slaves pay rent? Slaves doesn't have any income and they do certainly not get paid for doing chores unlike a maid. They also receive 'free' housing. Don't step on your own foot. Before you get angry, I'm not saying that he shouldn't do the chores when his dad asks him to, and I only made an extreme parallel to slaving, not saying it has anything to do with his situation. If you get upset over me using the term 'slave', you totally missed my main point.
Yes clearly he is being held in that house against his will LOL
You're pretty good at this internet thing aren't you
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United States43186 Posts
On November 02 2009 18:27 psion0011 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 02 2009 18:22 Shauni wrote:On November 02 2009 18:10 psion0011 wrote:On November 02 2009 18:07 Shauni wrote:On November 02 2009 17:49 eMbrace wrote:On November 02 2009 17:47 psion0011 wrote:On November 02 2009 17:36 Shauni wrote:
Wow Mora I'm so relieved I'm not your son. I'm so tired of all the talk about respect, most of you North Americans seem to sing in tune about this for some reason.
All people deserve equal respect until they are proven otherwise. Regardless of social position (parenting, job, lifestyle, sexuality, anything). You do not deserve more respect because you successfully moved out from home earlier than he did. A fire-fighter doesn't deserve extra respect because he is saving lives.
He doesn't respect his dad? Who the hell are you to judge? Respect has nothing to do with slaving for your parent or doing what he wants you to do. It'd be one thing if he didn't do the laundry out of dislike for the dad, but it doesn't sound like that at all. I believe the parent-child bond is (or should be) deep enough not to get swayed by useless arguments about daily chores. "Laundry? FUCK YOU DAD I'M NOT YOUR SLAVE oh yeah where's my dinner? oh btw thanks for letting me live here for free lol" Both of you are twisting this situation into something retarded. Where's the retarded part? It's essentially what this is all about. You guys judge him harshly as a failure not only because of his attitude but also because he's 22 and lives at home. I'm just saying that you should throw out your capitalist views about achieving social status before you judge his character. For the price of someone's rent I can hire a maid to do my laundry AND clean my house. But he's living there for free and you call him a slave, that is what's retarded. Do slaves pay rent? Slaves doesn't have any income and they do certainly not get paid for doing chores unlike a maid. They also receive 'free' housing. Don't step on your own foot. Before you get angry, I'm not saying that he shouldn't do the chores when his dad asks him to, and I only made an extreme parallel to slaving, not saying it has anything to do with his situation. If you get upset over me using the term 'slave', you totally missed my main point. Yes clearly he is being held in that house against his will LOL You're pretty good at this internet thing aren't you
You're pretty bad at this internet thing aren't you.
On November 02 2009 18:22 Shauni wrote:
If you get upset over me using the term 'slave', you totally missed my main point.
He spelled it out for you right there. Jeez.
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On November 02 2009 18:29 Kwark wrote:Show nested quote +On November 02 2009 18:27 psion0011 wrote:On November 02 2009 18:22 Shauni wrote:On November 02 2009 18:10 psion0011 wrote:On November 02 2009 18:07 Shauni wrote:On November 02 2009 17:49 eMbrace wrote:On November 02 2009 17:47 psion0011 wrote:On November 02 2009 17:36 Shauni wrote:
Wow Mora I'm so relieved I'm not your son. I'm so tired of all the talk about respect, most of you North Americans seem to sing in tune about this for some reason.
All people deserve equal respect until they are proven otherwise. Regardless of social position (parenting, job, lifestyle, sexuality, anything). You do not deserve more respect because you successfully moved out from home earlier than he did. A fire-fighter doesn't deserve extra respect because he is saving lives.
He doesn't respect his dad? Who the hell are you to judge? Respect has nothing to do with slaving for your parent or doing what he wants you to do. It'd be one thing if he didn't do the laundry out of dislike for the dad, but it doesn't sound like that at all. I believe the parent-child bond is (or should be) deep enough not to get swayed by useless arguments about daily chores. "Laundry? FUCK YOU DAD I'M NOT YOUR SLAVE oh yeah where's my dinner? oh btw thanks for letting me live here for free lol" Both of you are twisting this situation into something retarded. Where's the retarded part? It's essentially what this is all about. You guys judge him harshly as a failure not only because of his attitude but also because he's 22 and lives at home. I'm just saying that you should throw out your capitalist views about achieving social status before you judge his character. For the price of someone's rent I can hire a maid to do my laundry AND clean my house. But he's living there for free and you call him a slave, that is what's retarded. Do slaves pay rent? Slaves doesn't have any income and they do certainly not get paid for doing chores unlike a maid. They also receive 'free' housing. Don't step on your own foot. Before you get angry, I'm not saying that he shouldn't do the chores when his dad asks him to, and I only made an extreme parallel to slaving, not saying it has anything to do with his situation. If you get upset over me using the term 'slave', you totally missed my main point. Yes clearly he is being held in that house against his will LOL You're pretty good at this internet thing aren't you You're pretty bad at this internet thing aren't you. Show nested quote +On November 02 2009 18:22 Shauni wrote:
If you get upset over me using the term 'slave', you totally missed my main point. He spelled it out for you right there. Jeez.
Please read his post again maybe you missed something!
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On November 02 2009 18:27 psion0011 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 02 2009 18:22 Shauni wrote:On November 02 2009 18:10 psion0011 wrote:On November 02 2009 18:07 Shauni wrote:On November 02 2009 17:49 eMbrace wrote:On November 02 2009 17:47 psion0011 wrote:On November 02 2009 17:36 Shauni wrote:
Wow Mora I'm so relieved I'm not your son. I'm so tired of all the talk about respect, most of you North Americans seem to sing in tune about this for some reason.
All people deserve equal respect until they are proven otherwise. Regardless of social position (parenting, job, lifestyle, sexuality, anything). You do not deserve more respect because you successfully moved out from home earlier than he did. A fire-fighter doesn't deserve extra respect because he is saving lives.
He doesn't respect his dad? Who the hell are you to judge? Respect has nothing to do with slaving for your parent or doing what he wants you to do. It'd be one thing if he didn't do the laundry out of dislike for the dad, but it doesn't sound like that at all. I believe the parent-child bond is (or should be) deep enough not to get swayed by useless arguments about daily chores. "Laundry? FUCK YOU DAD I'M NOT YOUR SLAVE oh yeah where's my dinner? oh btw thanks for letting me live here for free lol" Both of you are twisting this situation into something retarded. Where's the retarded part? It's essentially what this is all about. You guys judge him harshly as a failure not only because of his attitude but also because he's 22 and lives at home. I'm just saying that you should throw out your capitalist views about achieving social status before you judge his character. For the price of someone's rent I can hire a maid to do my laundry AND clean my house. But he's living there for free and you call him a slave, that is what's retarded. Do slaves pay rent? Slaves doesn't have any income and they do certainly not get paid for doing chores unlike a maid. They also receive 'free' housing. Don't step on your own foot. Before you get angry, I'm not saying that he shouldn't do the chores when his dad asks him to, and I only made an extreme parallel to slaving, not saying it has anything to do with his situation. If you get upset over me using the term 'slave', you totally missed my main point. Yes clearly he is being held in that house against his will LOL You're pretty good at this internet thing aren't you
i would hope a reasonably human being wouldn't ever feel superior to their child merely because they raised them in their own house.
it's like a firefighter rescuing you from a burning building and saying "you owe me, big time."
are you going to thank that firefighter to death for saving you? sure. are going to give him some free food if he visits you at your food service job? hell yeah.
but is it right for him to demand unreasonably things of you? not really -- he certainly has the power to guilt trip you though.
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On November 02 2009 18:32 eMbrace wrote:Show nested quote +On November 02 2009 18:27 psion0011 wrote:On November 02 2009 18:22 Shauni wrote:On November 02 2009 18:10 psion0011 wrote:On November 02 2009 18:07 Shauni wrote:On November 02 2009 17:49 eMbrace wrote:On November 02 2009 17:47 psion0011 wrote:On November 02 2009 17:36 Shauni wrote:
Wow Mora I'm so relieved I'm not your son. I'm so tired of all the talk about respect, most of you North Americans seem to sing in tune about this for some reason.
All people deserve equal respect until they are proven otherwise. Regardless of social position (parenting, job, lifestyle, sexuality, anything). You do not deserve more respect because you successfully moved out from home earlier than he did. A fire-fighter doesn't deserve extra respect because he is saving lives.
He doesn't respect his dad? Who the hell are you to judge? Respect has nothing to do with slaving for your parent or doing what he wants you to do. It'd be one thing if he didn't do the laundry out of dislike for the dad, but it doesn't sound like that at all. I believe the parent-child bond is (or should be) deep enough not to get swayed by useless arguments about daily chores. "Laundry? FUCK YOU DAD I'M NOT YOUR SLAVE oh yeah where's my dinner? oh btw thanks for letting me live here for free lol" Both of you are twisting this situation into something retarded. Where's the retarded part? It's essentially what this is all about. You guys judge him harshly as a failure not only because of his attitude but also because he's 22 and lives at home. I'm just saying that you should throw out your capitalist views about achieving social status before you judge his character. For the price of someone's rent I can hire a maid to do my laundry AND clean my house. But he's living there for free and you call him a slave, that is what's retarded. Do slaves pay rent? Slaves doesn't have any income and they do certainly not get paid for doing chores unlike a maid. They also receive 'free' housing. Don't step on your own foot. Before you get angry, I'm not saying that he shouldn't do the chores when his dad asks him to, and I only made an extreme parallel to slaving, not saying it has anything to do with his situation. If you get upset over me using the term 'slave', you totally missed my main point. Yes clearly he is being held in that house against his will LOL You're pretty good at this internet thing aren't you i would hope a reasonably human being wouldn't ever feel superior to their child merely because they raised them in their own house. it's like a firefighter rescuing you from a burning building and saying "you owe me, big time." are you going to thank that firefighter to death for saving you? sure. are going to give him some free food if he visits you at your food service job? hell yeah. but is it right for him to demand unreasonably things of you? not really -- he certainly has the power to guilt trip you though.
Except after you turn 18 it's not their responsibility anymore and you're just a big mooch
and since when did laundry turn into some epic unreasonable quest LOL
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On November 02 2009 18:35 psion0011 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 02 2009 18:32 eMbrace wrote:On November 02 2009 18:27 psion0011 wrote:On November 02 2009 18:22 Shauni wrote:On November 02 2009 18:10 psion0011 wrote:On November 02 2009 18:07 Shauni wrote:On November 02 2009 17:49 eMbrace wrote:On November 02 2009 17:47 psion0011 wrote:On November 02 2009 17:36 Shauni wrote:
Wow Mora I'm so relieved I'm not your son. I'm so tired of all the talk about respect, most of you North Americans seem to sing in tune about this for some reason.
All people deserve equal respect until they are proven otherwise. Regardless of social position (parenting, job, lifestyle, sexuality, anything). You do not deserve more respect because you successfully moved out from home earlier than he did. A fire-fighter doesn't deserve extra respect because he is saving lives.
He doesn't respect his dad? Who the hell are you to judge? Respect has nothing to do with slaving for your parent or doing what he wants you to do. It'd be one thing if he didn't do the laundry out of dislike for the dad, but it doesn't sound like that at all. I believe the parent-child bond is (or should be) deep enough not to get swayed by useless arguments about daily chores. "Laundry? FUCK YOU DAD I'M NOT YOUR SLAVE oh yeah where's my dinner? oh btw thanks for letting me live here for free lol" Both of you are twisting this situation into something retarded. Where's the retarded part? It's essentially what this is all about. You guys judge him harshly as a failure not only because of his attitude but also because he's 22 and lives at home. I'm just saying that you should throw out your capitalist views about achieving social status before you judge his character. For the price of someone's rent I can hire a maid to do my laundry AND clean my house. But he's living there for free and you call him a slave, that is what's retarded. Do slaves pay rent? Slaves doesn't have any income and they do certainly not get paid for doing chores unlike a maid. They also receive 'free' housing. Don't step on your own foot. Before you get angry, I'm not saying that he shouldn't do the chores when his dad asks him to, and I only made an extreme parallel to slaving, not saying it has anything to do with his situation. If you get upset over me using the term 'slave', you totally missed my main point. Yes clearly he is being held in that house against his will LOL You're pretty good at this internet thing aren't you i would hope a reasonably human being wouldn't ever feel superior to their child merely because they raised them in their own house. it's like a firefighter rescuing you from a burning building and saying "you owe me, big time." are you going to thank that firefighter to death for saving you? sure. are going to give him some free food if he visits you at your food service job? hell yeah. but is it right for him to demand unreasonably things of you? not really -- he certainly has the power to guilt trip you though. Except after you turn 18 it's not their responsibility anymore and you're just a big mooch and since when did laundry turn into some epic unreasonable quest LOL
i hope you dont have kids 0_o
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On November 02 2009 17:36 Shauni wrote:
He doesn't respect his dad?Who the hell are you to judge?
uh? I'm someone with a brain?
I would never respond to anyone who asked me to do something with why don't you do it?. That is disrespectful, and i don't treat people that way. Similarly, people who treat me that way are excluded from my life, and promptly so. My dad didn't treat me with respect, which is why i moved out of the house. I don't surround myself with people who are disrespectful.
Respect has nothing to do with slaving for your parent or doing what he wants you to do. ...I believe the parent-child bond is (or should be) deep enough not to get swayed by useless arguments about daily chores.
I 100% agree. I would never ask my child to quit doing his favourite activity to do something as trivial as laundry. I would have a particular affinity for my relationship with my child and would treat such a relationship with care - asking someone to immediately quit doing what they love when there is no benefit to doing so would clearly be counter-productive to such an undertaking. But that's not what we're discussing. You don't have to like or respect your father, but if he pays the bills and expects you to do something, you fucking do it. Me? i want to have a good relationship with my son, and would not behave in a tyrannical manner even though it's my right to do so.
Wow Mora I'm so relieved I'm not your son. I'm so tired of all the talk about respect, most of you North Americans seem to sing in tune about this for some reason.
All people deserve equal respect until they are proven otherwise. Regardless of social position (parenting, job, lifestyle, sexuality, anything). You do not deserve more respect because you successfully moved out from home earlier than he did. A fire-fighter doesn't deserve extra respect because he is saving lives.
You're confusing "behaving with integrity [ie: respect]" with "dad deserves respect because he's your dad".
You should treat a fire-fighter with respect. You should also treat a homeless person with respect. I also think you should treat me with respect - not because i moved out of my home when i was 18, but because that's how i will treat you.
i don't know what people don't get about this. If dad pays the bills, he has you by the balls. If you don't like it, leave. If you don't want to leave, improve it by acting responsibly. Throwing a tantrum and saying "why don't you do it", is understandable from a 13 year old, but by the age of 22, you should know better.
Maybe my perspective on this would be better understood if i gave an example of how i'd handle this situation if i had been in it.
So dad asks me in the middle of a Starcraft game to do a chore. It's super not a good time and leaving right now to do it will ruin the flow of the game, both for me and my opponent. I say, "Hey dad, this is a really important game, and it's super intense right now, could i do it as soon as i'm finished?".
He has one of two responses:
a) "Sure, no problem son".
b) "No. get the fuck off the computer you lazy sack of shit and do what you're told".
We don't need to discuss situation a since it's optimal and all turns out great. So let's discuss my response to situation b:
I ask my opponent if he wouldn't mind my pausing while i take care of something i cannot afford not to take care of. For the sake of arguement, let's assume he's a dick and does not let you pause. I call him a cunt and leave the game. I go and do said chore. I approach my father later, sit him down, and say something along the following: "Hey dad. I understand that it is important to you to have the laundry out of your hair so that you don't need to worry about it - and i apologize for not having done so. But it's really important to me to discuss what happened today. I tried to express to you that i was doing something that is really important to me, and from the way you responded, well, it gave the distinct impression that you just don't care. When you do this, you make me feel insignificant, unimportant, and to be frank, it's treating me in a way that i consider disrespectful. I need to know if that was your intention, cause it was certainly the situation"
again, there's pretty much two responses:
a) "I'm sorry son, i didn't realize how important it was to you, and will be more mindful next time. I appreciate your apology and trust that you will take my concerns more considerably in the future, and i will do the same."
b) "I don't give a fuck what you think. While under my roof you will do what i say and you will do so when i say it".
obviously, we don't need to discuss scenario a.
scenario b has a few responses, most of which will be unsuccessful, and the others are not easy:
a) talk to someone in your family who has a better connection with your father, and ask for advice of how to better handle the situation (most likely will be unsuccessful, in my experience)
b) talk to someone (ie: a shrink) about how to handle the situation. This will most likely be unsuccessful unless your father is willing to improve his side of the relationship (since his side is clearly the problem). This is obviously unlikely because of the situation you are in.
c) remove disrectful person from your life. You must decide if the cost is worth it (ie: your 'free' education, how well you eat, etc.)
I was lucky that i had two parents who differed in the extreme. My mother was pretty much always response a in every single scenario, and my father was pretty much always response b. My ability to articulate my thoughts and feelings to people in my life has always come fairly naturally - a skill passed on from my mother; i feel that i handled most situations with my father (in my late teens, at least) with maturity. He still did not treat me with respect after continual attempts to reason through our relationship problems, and so i had no choice but to move out.
this still does not change the fact that under his roof, i have no other fucking option than to do what he tells me. it also doesn't give me the right to treat him with disrespect. Acting that way would remove my integrity. I was able to act bigger than my father, not by treating him with disrespect or behaving like a child, but being a man and moving out. This is important for everyone you deal with in life. Whether it be siblings, your boss, friends, peers, strangers, anyone. When someone treats you with disrespect, it is not reason enough to throw your integrity out the window and behave like a child. Practicing with someone who won't budge, regardless of how maturely you deal with them, is good practice.
It wasn't until later that he could accept my assertion as a self-supporting man, and were able to not only become civil and respectful, but also become best friends. I now have an extremely strong, mutually respecting relationship with my father, and that would not be possible if i had continued to point my finger at my father and think of him as being wrong. It grants him power over my attitude and my person, and robs me of the ability to act with integrity.
edit - just wanted to point out that if i did live with my father, and it had been agreed upon that i would wash the towels, that they would be done without him ever having to ask me to finish the job. If i did live with my father again, and didn't work, and he paid all the bills; i would probably do the grocery shopping, do almost all of the cooking, do all of the dishwashing, and do all the mutual laundry pieces. After doing these things, i would probably ask him if there is anything i could help him with.
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I understand your view a bit better now Mora. But you don't have to be so condescending just because you grew up with a more strict father than OP's father. Yes, because he pays the bill he CAN be an asshole and he CAN throw you out if he wants to but it is pretty extreme in relation to this case. Most children can have a dialogue with their dad on equal terms without the dad resorting to threats about throwing you out. It seems like he just wanted to provoke his dad a little. In most cases that doesn't result in more than a small fight, which can be healthy at times.
I left my mother and my stepdad's home because of this reason. Whenever he noticed me unhappy about something my stepdad resorted to yelling about me being an ungrateful bastard who should be happy I have a home and food on the table.
Looking through the rear-view, I definitely do not share your opinion about it being OK, neither in your case or mine. You should rather be happy for his sake (rather than condescending) - that he has a father who doesn't threaten throw him out because of shit like this. To me, from your previous posts it sounds like you'd become just like your own father if you ever had children.
On November 02 2009 18:59 Mora wrote:You're confusing "behaving with integrity [ie: respect]" with "dad deserves respect because he's your dad".
You're well-aware to notice this, yet the difference is not that I'm confusing the concepts, rather that I do not believe the latter exists. Your dad does not deserve any respect 'because he's your dad'. I guess that's where our main viewpoints differ.
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Bill307
Canada9103 Posts
The OP reminds me of when I was younger and used to get into stupid arguments with my parents simply out of spite for them. Stupidity like this would be a weekly or even daily thing for me.
So this post is no big deal to me, really.
Assuming my point of view is correct, the only solution is for the OP to move out. It can take years of separation before the spite disappears. I'm just lucky I got to move out and start living a normal life earlier.
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On November 02 2009 19:35 Shauni wrote:I understand your view a bit better now Mora. But you don't have to be so condescending just because you grew up with a more strict father than OP's father. Yes, because he pays the bill he CAN be an asshole and he CAN throw you out if he wants to but it is pretty extreme in relation to this case. Most children can have a dialogue with their dad on equal terms without the dad resorting to threats about throwing you out. It seems like he just wanted to provoke his dad a little. In most cases that doesn't result in more than a small fight, which can be healthy at times. I left my mother and my stepdad's home because of this reason. Whenever he noticed me unhappy about something my stepdad resorted to yelling about me being an ungrateful bastard who should be happy I have a home and food on the table. Looking through the rear-view, I definitely do not share your opinion about it being OK, neither in your case or mine. You should rather be happy for his sake (rather than condescending) - that he has a father who doesn't threaten throw him out because of shit like this. To me, from your previous posts it sounds like you'd become just like your own father if you ever had children. Show nested quote +On November 02 2009 18:59 Mora wrote:You're confusing "behaving with integrity [ie: respect]" with "dad deserves respect because he's your dad". You're well-aware to notice this, yet the difference is not that I'm confusing the concepts, rather that I do not believe the latter exists. Your dad does not deserve any respect 'because he's your dad'. I guess that's where our main viewpoints differ.
sorry, i wasn't articulate enough. i don't believe the latter exists either (and i meant to say that people are confusing the former with the latter).
The use and definition of the word 'respect' is so very loose. I treat everyone with respect. When i was a late teen, i rarely reduced myself to treating him disrespectfully, as i felt that that was a bigger reflection of myself than it was of the way he was treating me.
It's not possible to end up like my father as i will not command obedience, i will have continuous and on-going dialogue with my kids, and will take their joys/desires as my own, because they enjoy them.
that being said, when they turn 13, they're either going to start taking care of some of the house-labour, or they're going to get a job. I don't feel that giving them a free ride through university is healthy, so they will either have to borrow money from me or a bank. 90% of my friends floundered through college/university not knowing if they even wanted to do their study as a career, they just wasted their parents money. My kid can study whatever he wants, but it will be a little more tangible when he understands that it's on his own dime.
I'm not hard-line on this stance, and could see it changing in the future depending on my future experiences. As of this point in time, it makes the most sense to me. People seem to be a lot more careful and caring with their actions when they are using their own money. Additionally, i don't want my kid to feel obligated to keep on studying a discipline that they don't enjoy just because i paid for it. I don't know if most people would feel better knowing it was on their own dime as opposed to an obligation to their parents, but i know i certainly would.
again, not concrete in such an opinion, and will probably have a discussion with my children about such a thing when the time comes - as i will value their opinion greatly in this matter.
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This thread started to spiral out of control during the end, but it was definetly a good read.
Yes, I still live at home at the age of 22, and I'm still in college, I dont pay rent or anything at home. Yes, we have a room in the house with washer and dryer. Oh and college is free in Sweden. I didn't take a loan from my father, if you dont believe I "owe" him something just by being his son, I am in fact debt-free.
I'm still debating whether I would have told him to do it himself if I wasn't stressed out by the encircling D+ mutalisks. On a good day I would probably only have emptied the washer, but I was already irritated, something that I actually warned him about.
The discussion began with him entering my room, asking me if I had a minute, because he really needed to talk to me about something important. I tell him I'm very busy, but if it's important go ahead, but I also tell him, before he starts talking that I am very frustrated and irritated at the moment, he asks me why and I tell him it's because the game isnt going so well.
You can bet your ass that I became more irritated when I heard that this really important subject that needed immediate attention was LAUNDRY, this is when I told him to do it himself.
I cant count the times I have emptied laundry from the washer that I didnt put in, put it in the dryer etc... And the fact that he even resorts to the incredibly childish defense of "I didnt put it in" made me even angrier.
However, I'm probably going to go into the laundry room right now, and wash his shirts, while I think he was a fucking idiot at the time, and I'm still kinda pissed, I know I could have handled it better. There is no reason to keep fighting about this, because we will probably handle it like we handle all other arguments, we both get pissed, yell at each other, and forget about it the next day. (Sometimes I do shit despite telling him to get lost for asking me, and sometimes he apologizes the next day, so its not all bad). And him finding clean shirts when he comes home today would probably make things better.
I'm only a bit worried it will make him think he was right, which means that some day the coming month, I will forget shit in the washer again, and once again he will tell me to empty it. Now I think there has been alot of comparisons to other situations here. But I still mirror what eMbrace wrote, it's laundry, why he couldnt just put it in the dryer himself really grinds my gears. It's like he chose to take an argument about it instead of just fucking doing it. Had it been that I crashed his car, spilt cola on the kitchen floor or even left my jacket on the floor, I would have understand it.
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Osaka27154 Posts
I think you still fail to realize that your biggest crime might have been trying to talk while still playing a game. Nothing shows poorer manners than talking while playing a game. You are showing that the other person isn't worthy of your full attention.
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Just quit the game, saves you a lot of frustration.
When someone asks me something and I happen to be playing iccup or whatever I just type gg and altf4 right away.
Dads do not like it when their son tells them to go do something themselves, that's their job.
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Welcome to real life, where you actually have to complete jobs, just not leave your shit laying around for others to do.
Yeah, this is what I try telling the old fucks at the factory I work, they just leave shit around for me to fix later all the time...bastards :--(
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On November 02 2009 13:31 FrozenArbiter wrote:Show nested quote +If my dad told me to turn off the computer for no reason what so ever in the middle of a A+ ICCUP game or a tournie final you bet your ass i'd do it. i'd try explaining to him why its important but if he wanted me to do something else i'd get off my ass and do it.
I'm sorry but doing things for no reason/no explanation is not something I'd do just because I respect and love someone. I don't think this makes me a horrible person.
No, it doesn't make you a horrible person. It just makes you a selfish one.
Prioritizing the needs of people we 'respect and love' above our own is something that is expected of people who consider themselves adults. It's why your parents buy you new school clothes each year while wearing the same pair of worn out shoes for a decade. It's why you come running when your wife calls you even though it's just to open a stupid jar. It's why you drop everything when your friend calls you for a pint because you know he needs to get something off his chest.
Seriously, what the fuck is wrong with you people? When did everyone get so completely self-absorbed?
Selfishness is the defining trait of this generation.
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Sweden33719 Posts
Oh fuck you.
All someone has to do is tell me WHY or tell me it's important. The important part of the example was this:
If my dad told me to turn off the computer for no reason what so ever
I would never refuse a request to help someone out if I can, not even by people I barely know, and certainly not my parents, but a random "turn off your computer" would be met with a "why?", not unquestioning obedience.
Sorry if I overreacted but I dislike being called selfish, as it's about the last thing I am. I have other flaws for sure, but definitely not that -_-
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An unselfish person would implicitly grasp the 'why' without having to be beaten over the head with it when it is his dad making the request.
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Sweden33719 Posts
Are you trolling me?
I don't know what kind of cave-man relationship you have with your parents to consider such a mono-syllabic command to be perfectly normal, but since mine would pretty much never make such a request without prefacing it with "it's important or "turn off your computer because X", so it's not actually an issue.
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Oh no. If trolling were the goal I wouldn't have picked the most level-headed guy in the thread to respond to. In reality it was one of those scroll down while getting more and more frustrated with the responses before spamming out a reply to whoever you land on situations.
Anyways, when I say that our generation is defined by selfishness, I don't want to sound like I'm excluding myself. You bet I'm selfish. We all are.
But what can you expect? We represent a generation that has experienced no real hardship and has lived largely through a period of relative global prosperity all while being told how important we are, how special we are, and having others make all the nessecary sacrifices for us. The end result is that we are robbed of the necessary perspective that would help us see why whatever our dad is asking us to do - whether we understand it or not - is by default more important than a stupid computer game.
Our generational narcissism has been written about at length - and not just by cranky old men.
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Sweden33719 Posts
But he very specifically said "for no reason".... That is, the only reason he wanted the computer turned off is to satisfy his whimsy.
If it was "can you help me with this?" I would pause and say "brb 1 minute, have to help someone". In fact, I even have an example of a PGTour game where that happened (my mom asked me to help move some furniture) and I came back to an unpaused game and - iirc - won anyway :D
Also, while I know we are the "me me me" generation, I don't think it's healthy to take the opposite extreme to such an extent that you can't have things that are important to you.
If you are in the final of a tournament (as in the original example), why shouldn't this be important to you? Would your dad automatically drop everything he was doing if he was in a phonecall or a chess tournament, without an explanation or at least a mention of it being important?
I really do not think he should, and I hope he wouldn't.
Furthermore, I would agree that I haven't really had to go through any hardships, but I'd like to think that my parents have bestowed some pretty solid values upon me. They've always been really unselfish and as a result it's something I've come to value a lot. I'm not that big on talking about personal stuff (well, at least not when it involves others than me) so I'm not gonna go into details.
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So I washed his shirts, I even vacuumed the house, and I left the shirts out (after drying them) so he would notice. After coming home he walks into my room carrying the shirts and asks me: "you didn't iron them?" then leaves.
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On November 03 2009 03:26 Catch]22 wrote:
So I washed his shirts, I even vacuumed the house, and I left the shirts out (after drying them) so he would notice. After coming home he walks into my room carrying the shirts and asks me: "you didn't iron them?" then leaves.
Since I cant see the expression on his face, I know if that was my dad that is his own weird way of saying thanks. Id say if you have it that bad then just move out, no more problems. And, the relationship with your parents will improve. When I lived at home my Dad and I would butt heads on a once a week basis. I worked for him, and naturally id have to hear his griping all day long. But after I moved out, got a different job my relationship with him got better. Now I work for him again, and hearing his griping is actually not as annoying as it was at 14-18.
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Sweden33719 Posts
On November 03 2009 03:26 Catch]22 wrote:
So I washed his shirts, I even vacuumed the house, and I left the shirts out (after drying them) so he would notice. After coming home he walks into my room carrying the shirts and asks me: "you didn't iron them?" then leaves.
Hahahaha
I think this settles the topic (assuming he wasnt joking).
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On November 02 2009 17:47 psion0011 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 02 2009 17:36 Shauni wrote:
Wow Mora I'm so relieved I'm not your son. I'm so tired of all the talk about respect, most of you North Americans seem to sing in tune about this for some reason.
All people deserve equal respect until they are proven otherwise. Regardless of social position (parenting, job, lifestyle, sexuality, anything). You do not deserve more respect because you successfully moved out from home earlier than he did. A fire-fighter doesn't deserve extra respect because he is saving lives.
He doesn't respect his dad? Who the hell are you to judge? Respect has nothing to do with slaving for your parent or doing what he wants you to do. It'd be one thing if he didn't do the laundry out of dislike for the dad, but it doesn't sound like that at all. I believe the parent-child bond is (or should be) deep enough not to get swayed by useless arguments about daily chores. "Laundry? FUCK YOU DAD I'M NOT YOUR SLAVE oh yeah where's my dinner? oh btw thanks for letting me live here for free lol"
Letting you? A parent makes an unspoken pact to shelter and provide for offspring for nothing in return when they have kids. Oh congrats dad, you're doing what you agreed to do when you conceived me.
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On November 03 2009 04:46 Xenocide_Knight wrote:Show nested quote +On November 02 2009 17:47 psion0011 wrote:On November 02 2009 17:36 Shauni wrote:
Wow Mora I'm so relieved I'm not your son. I'm so tired of all the talk about respect, most of you North Americans seem to sing in tune about this for some reason.
All people deserve equal respect until they are proven otherwise. Regardless of social position (parenting, job, lifestyle, sexuality, anything). You do not deserve more respect because you successfully moved out from home earlier than he did. A fire-fighter doesn't deserve extra respect because he is saving lives.
He doesn't respect his dad? Who the hell are you to judge? Respect has nothing to do with slaving for your parent or doing what he wants you to do. It'd be one thing if he didn't do the laundry out of dislike for the dad, but it doesn't sound like that at all. I believe the parent-child bond is (or should be) deep enough not to get swayed by useless arguments about daily chores. "Laundry? FUCK YOU DAD I'M NOT YOUR SLAVE oh yeah where's my dinner? oh btw thanks for letting me live here for free lol" Letting you? A parent makes an unspoken pact to shelter and provide for offspring for nothing in return when they have kids. Oh congrats dad, you're doing what you agreed to do when you conceived me.
yes. when they have kids. you cease being a kid at 15. after that it's chore and labour baby! pull out that whip!
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On November 02 2009 15:32 Manifesto7 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 02 2009 13:24 Xenocide_Knight wrote:On November 02 2009 13:14 lvatural wrote:On November 02 2009 12:35 Liquid`Drone wrote:On November 02 2009 11:50 JeeJee wrote:On November 02 2009 11:45 Liquid`Drone wrote:
as for the whole "respect your dad because he is your dad", that's a bunch of bullshit, especially when you are 22 years old. if your dad is a jackass, he doesnt deserve your respect. seriously? i don't care how much of an asshole my father is, him providing for me when i was fucking useless to the world is enough to earn my respect and forget any of his little faults for pretty much ever, whether i'm living alone or with him (especially moreso in the latter case) im not saying you shouldnt respect your father if he has some tiny flaws or whatever, but if he's a complete jackass? what if he beats your mom? all im saying is that fatherhood doesn't equal respect by default.. a good dad obviously deserves it, and im not saying op's dad is a bad father or not worthy of respect. just that it's not some kind of default state, respect needs to be earned even for a parent. Disagree. The default state given to your father is respect (of course this extends to the mother as well). Simply put, they're the reason you are here today. They housed, fed, taught, etc.. you for the beginning portion of your life. This in it of itself simply establishes lifetime respect. However, I do believe there are EXCEPTIONS to this, for example beating you or your mom for the hell of it or dumping you in a ditch when you were 9, that would not warrant this respect anymore. But these are only in extreme and narrow cases. A father being a complete jackass, in my opinion, doesn't fit into this category and should still be respected by his kids. Sure, your take on earning respect is reasonable when applied towards unrelated third parties; however, I think a father/mother should not be lumped in the same category. Disagree Respect is ALWAYS earned. no exceptions, parent or not. Same reasoning as you. They are the reason you are here today. YOU didn't choose to have parents or be born, THEY chose to have a child which they KNEW they would have to provide for for years and years. I don't see how that enables automatic respect Disagree. Respect is often the default position due to profession, station, or relationship. If you walk into a new class with a professor, you start out with an assumption of respect for him and his knowledge, because of his position. His actions can reinforce or counter that initial respect, but it is there to begin with. Same goes for when you take a lesson from a martial artist, when you meet a priest, or when you meet a president. The ability to attain a certain position in life gives you respect from the outset of many situations. An entire swath of our social behaviour is based off this.
Somewhat agree
In those situations, you choose to learn from a person who has already done what you hope to do and these people are going to teach you how they did it. They earned your respect. A child doesn't decide if they want parents or even if they want to be born. The way you seem to be putting it, a child is born in debt to the parents.
the child doesn't decide "oh this guy seems to know what he's doing, I want to be his child." The child gets no say whatsoever. So they are basically forced into respecting a person they never met or wanted to meet.
no. I think a parent has to earn their child's respect
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On November 03 2009 04:52 Xenocide_Knight wrote:Show nested quote +On November 02 2009 15:32 Manifesto7 wrote:On November 02 2009 13:24 Xenocide_Knight wrote:On November 02 2009 13:14 lvatural wrote:On November 02 2009 12:35 Liquid`Drone wrote:On November 02 2009 11:50 JeeJee wrote:On November 02 2009 11:45 Liquid`Drone wrote:
as for the whole "respect your dad because he is your dad", that's a bunch of bullshit, especially when you are 22 years old. if your dad is a jackass, he doesnt deserve your respect. seriously? i don't care how much of an asshole my father is, him providing for me when i was fucking useless to the world is enough to earn my respect and forget any of his little faults for pretty much ever, whether i'm living alone or with him (especially moreso in the latter case) im not saying you shouldnt respect your father if he has some tiny flaws or whatever, but if he's a complete jackass? what if he beats your mom? all im saying is that fatherhood doesn't equal respect by default.. a good dad obviously deserves it, and im not saying op's dad is a bad father or not worthy of respect. just that it's not some kind of default state, respect needs to be earned even for a parent. Disagree. The default state given to your father is respect (of course this extends to the mother as well). Simply put, they're the reason you are here today. They housed, fed, taught, etc.. you for the beginning portion of your life. This in it of itself simply establishes lifetime respect. However, I do believe there are EXCEPTIONS to this, for example beating you or your mom for the hell of it or dumping you in a ditch when you were 9, that would not warrant this respect anymore. But these are only in extreme and narrow cases. A father being a complete jackass, in my opinion, doesn't fit into this category and should still be respected by his kids. Sure, your take on earning respect is reasonable when applied towards unrelated third parties; however, I think a father/mother should not be lumped in the same category. Disagree Respect is ALWAYS earned. no exceptions, parent or not. Same reasoning as you. They are the reason you are here today. YOU didn't choose to have parents or be born, THEY chose to have a child which they KNEW they would have to provide for for years and years. I don't see how that enables automatic respect Disagree. Respect is often the default position due to profession, station, or relationship. If you walk into a new class with a professor, you start out with an assumption of respect for him and his knowledge, because of his position. His actions can reinforce or counter that initial respect, but it is there to begin with. Same goes for when you take a lesson from a martial artist, when you meet a priest, or when you meet a president. The ability to attain a certain position in life gives you respect from the outset of many situations. An entire swath of our social behaviour is based off this. Somewhat agree In those situations, you choose to learn from a person who has already done what you hope to do and these people are going to teach you how they did it. They earned your respect. A child doesn't decide if they want parents or even if they want to be born. The way you seem to be putting it, a child is born in debt to the parents. the child doesn't decide "oh this guy seems to know what he's doing, I want to be his child." The child gets no say whatsoever. So they are basically forced into respecting a person they never met or wanted to meet. no. I think a parent has to earn their child's respect
How do you earn a child's respect? Is it subjective or is there a line between 'contractual' obligation and something worthy of respect?
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When did this idea of having to "earn someone's respect" become so widespread? You should treat everyone with respect until they give you reason not to. It's not really that complicated is it?
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On November 03 2009 03:26 Catch]22 wrote:
So I washed his shirts, I even vacuumed the house, and I left the shirts out (after drying them) so he would notice. After coming home he walks into my room carrying the shirts and asks me: "you didn't iron them?" then leaves.
Update on this, a couple of hours later, he comes in and says: "thanks for the shirt, we ok?" I say yeah, no prob.
I'd like to think we both admitted to being wrong.
Thanks for helping me clearing this up TL.net I probably wouldnt have done anything if not for you guys.
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On November 02 2009 15:10 GTR wrote:
living with your parents when you are 22
lol
edit: also mora that is the MOST RANDOM EDIT i've ever read on this site.
Waitin for someone ignorant to make this comment as I read through the thread, but it's ok, you're a baby and aren't aware of what economic difficulties might mean to someone our age
And I think the attitude in here that parents are absolutely obligated to put up with a kid who is older than 15's bullshit just because they have some sort of "pact" to do so by having kids is ignorant and immature. Only people who are too young or too stupid would be saying that.
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Baltimore, USA22256 Posts
On November 03 2009 10:21 Catch]22 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2009 03:26 Catch]22 wrote:
So I washed his shirts, I even vacuumed the house, and I left the shirts out (after drying them) so he would notice. After coming home he walks into my room carrying the shirts and asks me: "you didn't iron them?" then leaves. Update on this, a couple of hours later, he comes in and says: "thanks for the shirt, we ok?" I say yeah, no prob. I'd like to think we both admitted to being wrong. Thanks for helping me clearing this up TL.net I probably wouldnt have done anything if not for you guys.
Thanks for the update - hope you both learned something from it!
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On November 02 2009 15:21 Mora wrote:Show nested quote +On November 02 2009 15:15 eMbrace wrote:On November 02 2009 15:10 GTR wrote:
living with your parents when you are 22
lol
edit: also mora that is the MOST RANDOM EDIT i've ever read on this site. laughing at people who live with their parents straight out of college doesn't seem like a very nice thing to do. most of my older brothers and sisters had to stay around for a bit before they could find somewhere to live and a job -- i'd imagine it would be very stressful. i disagree. moving out when they were out of highschool, working a minimum wage job, trying to find happiness in such a depressing situation - that would be stressful. staying at home with your rents so you can live a pampered luxurious life forever afterwards? Perhaps we just have a different definition of stress.
I live at home, I lived on my own previously, but I took a new job, and was fired within 3 weeks. Don't really understand the reason they gave, but it took me 1 month and 3 weeks to find a job, and 2 months 1 week to get my first, small paycheck. This was during the beginning of the recession. Unfortunately, I had enough money to pay for rent, but not for food or anything else, so I had to move back in with my parents. Within another 2 weeks, I found a second job, and was working two jobs for a while. My primary job found out I had a second job, and told me to quit it or I was fired. The primary job then 3 months later accused me of stealing and fired me for leaving the store unattended (they made me write a statement about the thievery, and basically he forced me to write it to make me as suspect as possible, some passages directly implying that the money was taken beyond coincidence on my shifts), they found out that I chased a customer to give them a debit card they forgot on the counter, and was fired that day. Now I'm unable to even find the shittiest job, I'd accept anything, 8.80/h. During that time, the job was part time only, as that's all I could find, and the hours were between 20-35 hours a week, depending on my crazy managers mood(she accused me of having a relationship with a coworker, and didn't let me work any shift with her for a full week, leaving me with no shifts for a week). I no longer own anything except the computer that I'm writing this on, which I purchased a few years ago that might sell for 300$ now. I have a car that I bought from my parents, which I had to give up some of my belongings for.
I have 900$ worth of expenses per month without rent, due mostly to the fact that my secondary education warranted 1 job, which I found a year and a half after finishing SAIT, which paid 12/h, I couldn't even pay back the loan with that money because of other expenses. Now that it requires a computer science degree to go work at iStock photo as a web developer, my education is completely moot. I'm 23, and yeah, life pretty much sucks, even at home. If my parents kicked me out, I'd have to take 3 jobs to pay for my shit in a productive manner. And I would if I could fucking find one.
I think you're being a little hard on people that live at home.
EDIT: I've never fucking stolen anything in my entire life, except when I was 4, from safeway I took out a chocolate from one of those open baskets that you spoon a quantity of into a bag, and pay by weight.
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On November 03 2009 10:21 Catch]22 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2009 03:26 Catch]22 wrote:
So I washed his shirts, I even vacuumed the house, and I left the shirts out (after drying them) so he would notice. After coming home he walks into my room carrying the shirts and asks me: "you didn't iron them?" then leaves. Update on this, a couple of hours later, he comes in and says: "thanks for the shirt, we ok?" I say yeah, no prob. I'd like to think we both admitted to being wrong. Thanks for helping me clearing this up TL.net I probably wouldnt have done anything if not for you guys.
awwwwwwwww. such a nice update.
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On November 03 2009 15:06 Element)LoGiC wrote:
I think you're being a little hard on people that live at home.
no. you're not at all what i was referring to. you're trying as hard as you can to make it on your own, and you're not having much success. that must be incredibly stressful and frustrating. in fact, that's exactly what i was referring to here:
moving out when they were out of highschool, working a minimum wage job, trying to find happiness in such a depressing situation - that would be stressful.
You aren't even able to maintain the moving out part. sooo harsh.
i'm not even trying to say that people who live at home (under conditions of having their expenses and school paid for) don't experience stress, i'm saying that that kind of stress is [usually] less than something such as what you are going through.
Biding one's time doing menial chores while studying for something that will fetch you a $75k/year just can't take the cake over someone desperately trying to make it on their own; taking 3 jobs, accepting minimum wage, working in jobs that promise little to no future, etc.
It's about context. Coming on to tl.net to say "oh my god. i sleep 4 hours a night, i take drugs to maintain my grades, my parents beat me because they don't feel i pull my weight around the house" - i wouldn't begrudge giving this person sympathy. This person would also not complain that their parents asked them to quit a Starcraft game. (not trying to pick on OP, just keeping the context of my statements from being blown out of proportion).
btw Steve, how the fuck are you? That seems like a stupid question considering... but jesus man, it's been ages. I haven't seen you in like 8 years? Haven't talked to you in like 5 years? If you end up being in my area, we should meet up.
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On November 02 2009 10:54 Nevuk wrote:
As a highly combative person, yes, it does become much easier to have a relationship with your parents when you don't live with them.
Yeah, I just can't take shit from parents either. I had huge fights with my mum and dad, although my dad was a bit scarier at the time. I am compulsively not okay with being told what to do or obey orders lol ;P
Then again I moved out 8 years ago so it's not really an issue. But I can relate to what you are saying. Don't take shit if you don't want to, move out and get on with your life instead.
It's just so problematic to live with your parents when you're adult as well, it doesn't fucking work.
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On November 03 2009 15:19 Masamune wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2009 10:21 Catch]22 wrote:On November 03 2009 03:26 Catch]22 wrote:
So I washed his shirts, I even vacuumed the house, and I left the shirts out (after drying them) so he would notice. After coming home he walks into my room carrying the shirts and asks me: "you didn't iron them?" then leaves. Update on this, a couple of hours later, he comes in and says: "thanks for the shirt, we ok?" I say yeah, no prob. I'd like to think we both admitted to being wrong. Thanks for helping me clearing this up TL.net I probably wouldnt have done anything if not for you guys. awwwwwwwww. such a nice update.
x2. When I read it I was thinking the exact same thing. Families making up and getting along. I love it!
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Living alone with your dad in the long run is not gonna work unless you guys are really compatible at a personal level and genuinely like each other. Also the dad needs to be quite understanding and easy-going, otherwise there will be issues. I lived with my dad for 2 years or something and it didn't work at all. Then again my mum kicked me out so I didn't have much of a choice.
Anyways, the best thing ever was moving out.
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eh. Your dad probably didn't need to bitch about it, but you should have done it.
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On November 03 2009 10:21 Catch]22 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2009 03:26 Catch]22 wrote:
So I washed his shirts, I even vacuumed the house, and I left the shirts out (after drying them) so he would notice. After coming home he walks into my room carrying the shirts and asks me: "you didn't iron them?" then leaves. Update on this, a couple of hours later, he comes in and says: "thanks for the shirt, we ok?" I say yeah, no prob. I'd like to think we both admitted to being wrong. Thanks for helping me clearing this up TL.net I probably wouldnt have done anything if not for you guys.
Haha, I had the exact same thing a couple weeks back. Luckily I had my trainer in the role of TL. Good luck man, and get out of that house asap, because sooner or later it'll happen again.
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I don't know, he gave you alot of money. I would've happily left or paused the game.
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EPT
