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FIFA World Cup 2022 - Knockout Stage - Page 22

Forum Index > FIFA World Cup 2022
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justanothertownie
Profile Joined July 2013
16342 Posts
November 27 2022 20:10 GMT
#421
Indeed what the heck is going on with these set pieces.
Liquid`Drone
Profile Joined September 2002
Norway28875 Posts
November 27 2022 20:32 GMT
#422
Musiala has a damn bright future, but made a wrong choice there.
Moderator
Pandemona *
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
Charlie Sheens House51493 Posts
November 27 2022 20:39 GMT
#423
Chelsea academy producing all the stars :3
ModeratorTeam Liquid Football Thread Guru! - Chelsea FC ♥
justanothertownie
Profile Joined July 2013
16342 Posts
November 27 2022 20:44 GMT
#424
On November 28 2022 05:32 Liquid`Drone wrote:
Musiala has a damn bright future, but made a wrong choice there.

Yeah, had too much time to think. He is still very young. The best German talent since I can remember though and he had a fantastic performance so far.
Liquid`Drone
Profile Joined September 2002
Norway28875 Posts
November 27 2022 20:57 GMT
#425
This was a high quality game. No offense to japan (or Costa rica) but I really hope germany makes it out - they look like one of the better teams so far, even if they only have 1 point from two games.
Moderator
sharkie
Profile Blog Joined April 2012
Austria18726 Posts
November 27 2022 20:58 GMT
#426
On November 28 2022 05:57 Liquid`Drone wrote:
This was a high quality game. No offense to japan (or Costa rica) but I really hope germany makes it out - they look like one of the better teams so far, even if they only have 1 point from two games.


Both Germany and Japan can make it out
Mafe
Profile Joined February 2011
Germany5966 Posts
Last Edited: 2022-11-27 21:00:46
November 27 2022 21:00 GMT
#427
Wow what a game. Overall, in advance I would haven taken this set of results with barely any hesition and I'm still fairly happy about it. It's just that the decision making near and within the opponent box is still abysmal. Fittingly, the goal was scored by Füllkrug in a "me hulk me smash" manner.

Oh, and about the set pieces: As has been mentioned several times in german tv, apparently they hired a dedicated set piece coach before the tournament. I guess the routines werent that bad, what does it matter if every corner kick goes astray by 10 metres.
justanothertownie
Profile Joined July 2013
16342 Posts
November 27 2022 21:07 GMT
#428
On November 28 2022 05:58 sharkie wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 28 2022 05:57 Liquid`Drone wrote:
This was a high quality game. No offense to japan (or Costa rica) but I really hope germany makes it out - they look like one of the better teams so far, even if they only have 1 point from two games.


Both Germany and Japan can make it out

That will be hard to do. Spains goal difference is too good.
KobraKay
Profile Joined March 2010
Portugal4372 Posts
November 27 2022 21:08 GMT
#429
This was an entertaining game but unfortunately chances of Japan making out are now very slim.

Was rooting for them.

On the other hand, i'm liking Spain a lot more now.
CJ Fighting! (--.--)
Acrofales
Profile Joined August 2010
Spain18410 Posts
November 27 2022 21:16 GMT
#430
Japan should've won vs Costa Rica. Losing that really messed up their chances. But let's face it, that was by far the best football I've seen this tournament. It'd be a shame to lose either one of them in the group stage.
mAKiTO
Profile Blog Joined December 2002
Colombia4177 Posts
November 27 2022 21:19 GMT
#431
Imagine if costa rica and japan win their remaining games :p
No quiero soñar mil veces las mismas cosas
RowdierBob
Profile Blog Joined May 2003
Australia13433 Posts
Last Edited: 2022-11-27 21:36:39
November 27 2022 21:22 GMT
#432
Japan really screwed the pooch. Germany pretty much just has to beat CR now and they’re through. It’s hard see to Japan beating Spain.
"Terrans are pretty much space-Australians" - H
Liquid`Drone
Profile Joined September 2002
Norway28875 Posts
November 27 2022 21:47 GMT
#433
On November 27 2022 22:04 RKC wrote:
Thanks for the insights, Drone and Wombat.

My own feelings on Neymar and sneaky players like him is mixed. I dislike their theatrics, diving, play-acting. But they often come from the streets and local leagues where defenders can be rather violent and cynical. So their cheating is a way to compensate for the lack of protection that they get from referees. Of course, maybe there's some chicken-and-egg going on - the cheaters tend to get fouled more.

Between diving and violent play, the first is the lesser evil. That's why I felt sad for Neymar when he was kungfu-kicked out of the WC in 2014. I can empathise with football legends who fall to the dark arts like Neymar, Maradona and Zidane. But not so much for mediocre strikers trying to draw fouls and win penalties without much technical ability to dribble and shoot.


I thought a bit more about it, trying to establish just what it is I like about players/teams. Spoilering cause it's long and I dunno if people are really interested at all. :D

+ Show Spoiler +

For players, the positive factors are a, how flashy people are, how skillful they are, how sympathetic they seem. (weighted in that order.) Negative factors are - if they come off as jerks outside the field, if they cheat on the field, if they're violent (from least bad to worst, although obv egregiousness matters too).

So Ronaldinho is basically the greatest ever to me because he was the flashiest while also being the best (even if briefly), and without being a violent cheater. I like Neymar a lot because he's flashy and super skilled, but dislike him a bit because he exaggerates injuries (and seems like kind of a jerk). People who snap in response are also more forgivable than people who instigate. Pepe of the past was the absolute worst, and Roy Keane can also go hang. I hated young Zlatan (he punched Erik Hoftun twice in the back of the head during Rosenborg-Ajax because Hoftun was crushing him), grew more fond of him with time.

For teams, there's - mostly in order, although I'm not fully sure it's the right one (other than a): a) what's my personal relationship with the team? I'm virtually always gonna root for Norway and Rosenborg even if they suck or play boring football. (tbh, I was reasonably happy when we were knocked out of the EC 2000, because we were clearly aiming for 0-0 and it was kinda amazing how boring the team was) I also cheer for Sweden and Denmark and Iceland (nordic brotherhood wohoo), and the Netherlands (been there plenty times, like a bunch of dutch people) and Poland (wife is Polish) and Germany (WC 1990 was the first world cup I watched and West-Germany was consequently one of the first teams I grew fond of). Then there's b) - does the team play attractive football or not?, combined with c)- do I like their players? (Or, do I 'really dislike' one or two particular players) These factors tend to fluctuate a lot. Italy is a team that to me used to score very poorly on these two, but during the EC, I found myself charmed by them, as they played entertaining football and the players seemed plenty sympathetic. Portugal has in the past been my most disliked team (impression of them as a bunch of diving cheaters, with sparkles of violence, who also played really boring football despite having spectacular players), but this year, I'm largely indifferent. Then there's d) - I by default cheer for the underdog.

Then, with club teams, I also factor in e) supporters and f) owners, and for countries, e) supporters and f) political leadership. For club teams, these should probably go higher - because I consistently cheer against Manchester City even though they play very attractive football and I like their manager and many of their players. They are however never the underdog, I characterize a bunch of their supporters as fair-weather supporters (incidentally I've started liking Manchester United more, because the supporters they still have have proven some degree of resilience by now), and their owners represent what I consider a plague upon football. I was a Newcastle fan for almost 30 years - but I broke up last year. Kinda sucks to watch them play well now, very conflicted feelings. Dortmund on the other end gets huge support from me - not only do they play attractive football, they're also a consistent underdog (for trophies), and they have amazing supporters. Meanwhile Lazio could play the most attractive football there is but I'd still dislike them, same with Hungary. Saudi-Arabia vs Argentina was a bit iffy, I did end up cheering for Saudis, but I guess the underdog story was just so powerful, even more so than the 'the leadership of this country is near the very bottom of the totem pole' part was. And with Iran, their supporters (and team) seem to be at odds with a similarly poor leadership of the country, so there, I largely cheer for them. Asian and African teams get some intrinsic support from status of underdog, but if they're matched up against one of the Northern European teams that I like more I'll normally go with them.

Moderator
WombaT
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Northern Ireland27265 Posts
November 27 2022 22:15 GMT
#434
On November 28 2022 06:47 Liquid`Drone wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 27 2022 22:04 RKC wrote:
Thanks for the insights, Drone and Wombat.

My own feelings on Neymar and sneaky players like him is mixed. I dislike their theatrics, diving, play-acting. But they often come from the streets and local leagues where defenders can be rather violent and cynical. So their cheating is a way to compensate for the lack of protection that they get from referees. Of course, maybe there's some chicken-and-egg going on - the cheaters tend to get fouled more.

Between diving and violent play, the first is the lesser evil. That's why I felt sad for Neymar when he was kungfu-kicked out of the WC in 2014. I can empathise with football legends who fall to the dark arts like Neymar, Maradona and Zidane. But not so much for mediocre strikers trying to draw fouls and win penalties without much technical ability to dribble and shoot.


I thought a bit more about it, trying to establish just what it is I like about players/teams. Spoilering cause it's long and I dunno if people are really interested at all. :D

+ Show Spoiler +

For players, the positive factors are a, how flashy people are, how skillful they are, how sympathetic they seem. (weighted in that order.) Negative factors are - if they come off as jerks outside the field, if they cheat on the field, if they're violent (from least bad to worst, although obv egregiousness matters too).

So Ronaldinho is basically the greatest ever to me because he was the flashiest while also being the best (even if briefly), and without being a violent cheater. I like Neymar a lot because he's flashy and super skilled, but dislike him a bit because he exaggerates injuries (and seems like kind of a jerk). People who snap in response are also more forgivable than people who instigate. Pepe of the past was the absolute worst, and Roy Keane can also go hang. I hated young Zlatan (he punched Erik Hoftun twice in the back of the head during Rosenborg-Ajax because Hoftun was crushing him), grew more fond of him with time.

For teams, there's - mostly in order, although I'm not fully sure it's the right one (other than a): a) what's my personal relationship with the team? I'm virtually always gonna root for Norway and Rosenborg even if they suck or play boring football. (tbh, I was reasonably happy when we were knocked out of the EC 2000, because we were clearly aiming for 0-0 and it was kinda amazing how boring the team was) I also cheer for Sweden and Denmark and Iceland (nordic brotherhood wohoo), and the Netherlands (been there plenty times, like a bunch of dutch people) and Poland (wife is Polish) and Germany (WC 1990 was the first world cup I watched and West-Germany was consequently one of the first teams I grew fond of). Then there's b) - does the team play attractive football or not?, combined with c)- do I like their players? (Or, do I 'really dislike' one or two particular players) These factors tend to fluctuate a lot. Italy is a team that to me used to score very poorly on these two, but during the EC, I found myself charmed by them, as they played entertaining football and the players seemed plenty sympathetic. Portugal has in the past been my most disliked team (impression of them as a bunch of diving cheaters, with sparkles of violence, who also played really boring football despite having spectacular players), but this year, I'm largely indifferent. Then there's d) - I by default cheer for the underdog.

Then, with club teams, I also factor in e) supporters and f) owners, and for countries, e) supporters and f) political leadership. For club teams, these should probably go higher - because I consistently cheer against Manchester City even though they play very attractive football and I like their manager and many of their players. They are however never the underdog, I characterize a bunch of their supporters as fair-weather supporters (incidentally I've started liking Manchester United more, because the supporters they still have have proven some degree of resilience by now), and their owners represent what I consider a plague upon football. I was a Newcastle fan for almost 30 years - but I broke up last year. Kinda sucks to watch them play well now, very conflicted feelings. Dortmund on the other end gets huge support from me - not only do they play attractive football, they're also a consistent underdog (for trophies), and they have amazing supporters. Meanwhile Lazio could play the most attractive football there is but I'd still dislike them, same with Hungary. Saudi-Arabia vs Argentina was a bit iffy, I did end up cheering for Saudis, but I guess the underdog story was just so powerful, even more so than the 'the leadership of this country is near the very bottom of the totem pole' part was. And with Iran, their supporters (and team) seem to be at odds with a similarly poor leadership of the country, so there, I largely cheer for them. Asian and African teams get some intrinsic support from status of underdog, but if they're matched up against one of the Northern European teams that I like more I'll normally go with them.


Good write-up, I’d say I’m largely similar in my tastes bar a slight heavier weighting for infuriating but aesthetically pleasing mercurial talents
'You'll always be the cuddly marsupial of my heart, despite the inherent flaws of your ancestry' - Squat
don_kyuhote
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
3007 Posts
Last Edited: 2022-11-27 23:27:10
November 27 2022 23:21 GMT
#435
On November 28 2022 06:19 mAKiTO wrote:
Imagine if costa rica and japan win their remaining games :p

It would also be funny if Costa Rica beats Germany 1-0 (with 1 shot on target) and ESP-JPN game draws so Costa Rica wins the group with 2 shots on target in 3 games.
For what shall it profit a man, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul?
RKC
Profile Joined June 2012
2848 Posts
Last Edited: 2022-11-28 03:31:55
November 28 2022 03:30 GMT
#436
Wasn't Germany almost in the same spot last WC? Lost the first game, won the second game, and entered the third game against South Korea who lost all two games and was already eliminated, Germany only needed a win against SK, the 'weakest' link the group. But they bungled it.

It's still possible for Costa Rica to bravely hold Germany to a draw. Their park-the-bus defensive line could hold up well against Germany's pace and direct route one attacks. And there isn't a lethal striker who can convert chances easily or a playmaker who can create something out of nothing in the German squad. So I wouldn't get ahead of myself, if I were a German fan!

On a seperate note, the keepers aren't that great this WC. Lots of blunders. Which is normal because keepers often struggle with the new ball. But even top keepers have under-performed - Mendy, Cortouis, and Neuer. The only standout keeper so far is Unai Simon. Who's your bet for the Golden Glove, people?
gg no re thx
don_kyuhote
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
3007 Posts
Last Edited: 2022-11-28 04:40:36
November 28 2022 04:39 GMT
#437
Germany is in a worse spot this year than in 2018, because right now, they HAVE to win. They only have 1 point, so they need 3 from CRC.
4 years ago, they had 3 points going into game 3, and had Mexico beaten Sweden, they could have afforded to draw South Korea and finish 2nd with 4 points.
Also, contrary to popular belief, South Korea was not eliminated going into game 3, but they didn't control their own destiny. They needed to beat Germany by 2+ goals AND Mexico to beat Sweden. The problem was (other than the fact that Mexico lost), had Mexico been winning against Sweden, the German staff could have instructed the players to stay back and defend for a 0-0 draw, so all in all, South Korea was basically in an impossible situation, but alive mathematically.

I don't think I've ever seen a team with just 1 point in 2 games be so favored to move on to ro16 before, but it is Germany so...
For what shall it profit a man, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul?
RKC
Profile Joined June 2012
2848 Posts
November 28 2022 04:50 GMT
#438
Thanks for the fact-checking, Don. I really don't mind being corrected for getting certain facts wrong.

Fouling Neymar 'has to stop', Brazil coach Tite says https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/63698283

Don't mean to kickstart this whole debate on diving v fouling again. But just thought it's good to share what the Brazil camp thinks.
gg no re thx
evilfatsh1t
Profile Joined October 2010
Australia8916 Posts
November 28 2022 05:19 GMT
#439
On November 28 2022 12:30 RKC wrote:
Wasn't Germany almost in the same spot last WC? Lost the first game, won the second game, and entered the third game against South Korea who lost all two games and was already eliminated, Germany only needed a win against SK, the 'weakest' link the group. But they bungled it.

It's still possible for Costa Rica to bravely hold Germany to a draw. Their park-the-bus defensive line could hold up well against Germany's pace and direct route one attacks. And there isn't a lethal striker who can convert chances easily or a playmaker who can create something out of nothing in the German squad. So I wouldn't get ahead of myself, if I were a German fan!

On a seperate note, the keepers aren't that great this WC. Lots of blunders. Which is normal because keepers often struggle with the new ball. But even top keepers have under-performed - Mendy, Cortouis, and Neuer. The only standout keeper so far is Unai Simon. Who's your bet for the Golden Glove, people?

i dont think the new ball is a good excuse. its more likely nerves or something else.
i saw an article written by a physicist who specifically analysed the manufacture of the current world cup ball and compared it to previous iterations. from a scientific perspective the result was that the ball performs very similarly to current balls used in leagues and the "better" balls from previous world cups. balls like the jabulani moving differently in the air was backed by the stats they used to calculate ball movement from an aerodynamic perspective.
cant find the link to the article now, but it was a fascinating piece from a purely aerodynamic science analysis.
KobraKay
Profile Joined March 2010
Portugal4372 Posts
November 28 2022 07:08 GMT
#440
On November 28 2022 12:30 RKC wrote:
On a seperate note, the keepers aren't that great this WC. Lots of blunders. Which is normal because keepers often struggle with the new ball. But even top keepers have under-performed - Mendy, Cortouis, and Neuer. The only standout keeper so far is Unai Simon. Who's your bet for the Golden Glove, people?


That depends on who you think top keepers are....for instance for me mendy and nutmeg courtois should not be in such a list (yeah yeah I know he won an award bla bla bla, those are no longer about player performance but about what team are you on and what did the team win).

But on the general sentiment I agree, no stand out GK so far in the tournament I think.
CJ Fighting! (--.--)
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