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On December 20 2022 22:23 RKC wrote:
Zidane carrying France in WC 2006 was an epic fairy-tale run. The sending off was such a tragic end. I'm guessing the pain of that loss in 2006 must be even worse than 2022.
Another all-time WC heartbreak is Baggio in WC 1994. His goals almost single-handedly rescued Italy during the knockouts.
Unfortunately, both their legacy in those WC will be more remembered for the heat-butt and penalty miss. Football history can be really cruel to the runners-up and tragic heroes.
Yes. I remember it well. It felt like an own goal. "Not like that".
2022 is very different, we didn't deserve to win in the first place, then almost did but got thwarted by brilliance. This is fine.
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On December 20 2022 22:15 Poopi wrote:Show nested quote +On December 20 2022 22:13 MyLovelyLurker wrote:On December 20 2022 22:00 Poopi wrote:On December 20 2022 21:59 Acrofales wrote:On December 20 2022 21:52 Poopi wrote:On December 20 2022 21:13 WombaT wrote:On December 20 2022 07:25 sharkie wrote:On December 20 2022 06:47 WombaT wrote:On December 20 2022 01:22 sharkie wrote:
Dont ronaldos teammates always speak positively about him too? I dont think you can give that any value?^^ We can just watch Messi’s teammates all mobbing him the final whistle. I think with anyone of that stature whenever anyone is asked in an interview for their opinion they’ll keep their mouth shut and be diplomatic and say they’re a great teammate, regardless of the truth of it. But that outpouring of emotion at the final whistle did seem absolutely genuine and that Messi’s teammates were all happy to have helped him get that WC itch scratched. With Messi I can see him being a bad teammate just in the sense that it’s pretty intimidating playing with the arguable GOAT. But that aside he seems a pretty good citizen with his conduct. Ronaldo has chewed out his teammates for years in full public view if a pass goes astray, he’s done an interview saying basically everyone who isn’t him in Man United sucks. And still if Portugal had won the world cup his teammates would have swarmed him and cheered him, kinda like in 2016. Please, these scenes dont mean anything about how both of them truly are... But they do tell us something. They don’t tell us everything about the totality of a man’s soul or character, but they don’t tell us nothing either. Ronaldo has a reputation for being incredibly generous with his money, and his time, especially when youngsters are involved. In that domain he seems a great bloke. When it’s football time though? He’s refused to come on in a game, he’s savaged an entire club in an interview and he’s stormed off down the tunnel immediately after a World Cup exit, only in a matter of months. Don’t need any great insight, these were in full public view. We’ve all had colleagues who are a pain, but they were that good at their job that they made our jobs easier, and let us reach new heights so, on balance it’s worth putting up with. If they stop performing well, those previously tolerable quirks become intolerable and I’d put money on some of his compatriots on the NT who’d tell you that this is the case if you could get them off the record Storming off the tunnel is imho a very good ending to a career. Not as impressive as Zidane headbutt (you can’t top that, it’s just a masterpiece of an exit) but it is particularly subjective. Some people prefer a classy (imho boring) exit, whereas other (such as me) prefer to see a man exit like he truly wants to. I don't think Zidane wanted to end his career on a red card for headbutting a sneaky defender who was verbally abusing him all game. I assume he'd like to have ended his career scoring the winner in that final. Or, at the very least, just plain winning it. France was a different team before and after his red card. Similarly, I don't think CR7 wanted to lose the match against Morocco, and I highly HIGHLY doubt CR7 wanted his final match for the NT to be as a sub in a game where he was unable to make the difference. He didn't storm off because that was how he truly wanted to exit... That he wanted or not is not the point, he can’t himself know what he wanted. He can only know what he got and live with it. Nothing wrong with crying IMHO. His 37 year belief that if you try the best you can, you will succeed ultimately got shattered in one instant. Guy's not used to failing so it stings more. When all's said and done people will remember the dramatic TV-friendly moment, but that's a footnote to 20 years of hard work. Yup, it’s perfectly fine to cry. Rekkles and Faker did and they are the GOAT of their region in LoL. Problem for Ronaldo is that he assumed politics was not that big a deal in football, except football is all about politics. The subject has been discussed ad nauseam at this point though, there is no point discussing it further.
Huh? You think Portugal lost to Morocco because of politics? Or do you think CR7 was benched die to politics.
Neither seem true. Morocco played a clean game and won. CR7 played like ass and was benched.
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France12911 Posts
On December 20 2022 22:26 MyLovelyLurker wrote:Show nested quote +On December 20 2022 22:23 RKC wrote:
Zidane carrying France in WC 2006 was an epic fairy-tale run. The sending off was such a tragic end. I'm guessing the pain of that loss in 2006 must be even worse than 2022.
Another all-time WC heartbreak is Baggio in WC 1994. His goals almost single-handedly rescued Italy during the knockouts.
Unfortunately, both their legacy in those WC will be more remembered for the heat-butt and penalty miss. Football history can be really cruel to the runners-up and tragic heroes. Yes. I remember it well. It felt like an own goal. "Not like that". 2022 is very different, we didn't deserve to win in the first place, then almost did but got thwarted by brilliance. This is fine.
Yeah, their can’t be more pain than France - Italy 2006, but that’s probably why Deschamps now plays ugly realistic football.
To Acrofales: that is true. Argentina was advantaged throughout the tournament, and expectedly won. You are free to believe what you want though. If they deserve to win or not is not my point (there is no meritocracy in football) ; and the « Argentina has been advantaged throughout the tournament » is my statistical intuition if you wish.
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On December 20 2022 22:27 Poopi wrote:Show nested quote +On December 20 2022 22:26 MyLovelyLurker wrote:On December 20 2022 22:23 RKC wrote:
Zidane carrying France in WC 2006 was an epic fairy-tale run. The sending off was such a tragic end. I'm guessing the pain of that loss in 2006 must be even worse than 2022.
Another all-time WC heartbreak is Baggio in WC 1994. His goals almost single-handedly rescued Italy during the knockouts.
Unfortunately, both their legacy in those WC will be more remembered for the heat-butt and penalty miss. Football history can be really cruel to the runners-up and tragic heroes. Yes. I remember it well. It felt like an own goal. "Not like that". 2022 is very different, we didn't deserve to win in the first place, then almost did but got thwarted by brilliance. This is fine. Yeah, their can’t be more pain than France - Italy 2006, but that’s probably why Deschamps now plays ugly realistic football. To Acrofales: Argentina was advantaged throughout the tournament, and expectedly won. You are free to believe what you want though. If they deserve to win or not is not my point (there is no meritocracy in football) ; and the « Argentina has been advantaged throughout the tournament » is my statistical intuition if you wish.
I'm guessing the mindset shift was also because of the loss against Portugal in Euro 2016? France really played sexy football throughout that tournament and the finals. Yet another heartbreaking result to footballing purist fans like myself.
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On December 20 2022 22:32 RKC wrote:Show nested quote +On December 20 2022 22:27 Poopi wrote:On December 20 2022 22:26 MyLovelyLurker wrote:On December 20 2022 22:23 RKC wrote:
Zidane carrying France in WC 2006 was an epic fairy-tale run. The sending off was such a tragic end. I'm guessing the pain of that loss in 2006 must be even worse than 2022.
Another all-time WC heartbreak is Baggio in WC 1994. His goals almost single-handedly rescued Italy during the knockouts.
Unfortunately, both their legacy in those WC will be more remembered for the heat-butt and penalty miss. Football history can be really cruel to the runners-up and tragic heroes. Yes. I remember it well. It felt like an own goal. "Not like that". 2022 is very different, we didn't deserve to win in the first place, then almost did but got thwarted by brilliance. This is fine. Yeah, their can’t be more pain than France - Italy 2006, but that’s probably why Deschamps now plays ugly realistic football. To Acrofales: Argentina was advantaged throughout the tournament, and expectedly won. You are free to believe what you want though. If they deserve to win or not is not my point (there is no meritocracy in football) ; and the « Argentina has been advantaged throughout the tournament » is my statistical intuition if you wish. I'm guessing the mindset shift was also because of the loss against Portugal in Euro 2016? France really played sexy football throughout that tournament and the finals. Yet another heartbreaking result to footballing purist fans like myself.
I was about to say the final nail in that coffin of flamboyant French football was France-Switzerland last Euro. We went full anime with Pogba and Benzema and then forgot to undo super-saiyan and fell off the cliff. Never again.
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On December 20 2022 22:35 MyLovelyLurker wrote:Show nested quote +On December 20 2022 22:32 RKC wrote:On December 20 2022 22:27 Poopi wrote:On December 20 2022 22:26 MyLovelyLurker wrote:On December 20 2022 22:23 RKC wrote:
Zidane carrying France in WC 2006 was an epic fairy-tale run. The sending off was such a tragic end. I'm guessing the pain of that loss in 2006 must be even worse than 2022.
Another all-time WC heartbreak is Baggio in WC 1994. His goals almost single-handedly rescued Italy during the knockouts.
Unfortunately, both their legacy in those WC will be more remembered for the heat-butt and penalty miss. Football history can be really cruel to the runners-up and tragic heroes. Yes. I remember it well. It felt like an own goal. "Not like that". 2022 is very different, we didn't deserve to win in the first place, then almost did but got thwarted by brilliance. This is fine. Yeah, their can’t be more pain than France - Italy 2006, but that’s probably why Deschamps now plays ugly realistic football. To Acrofales: Argentina was advantaged throughout the tournament, and expectedly won. You are free to believe what you want though. If they deserve to win or not is not my point (there is no meritocracy in football) ; and the « Argentina has been advantaged throughout the tournament » is my statistical intuition if you wish. I'm guessing the mindset shift was also because of the loss against Portugal in Euro 2016? France really played sexy football throughout that tournament and the finals. Yet another heartbreaking result to footballing purist fans like myself. I was about to say the final nail in that coffin of flamboyant French football was France-Switzerland last Euro. We went full anime with Pogba and Benzema and then forgot to undo super-saiyan and fell off the cliff. Never again.
Oh yeah, that's another bizarre upset. I was really readying for France to gain a chance at revenge and redemption against Italy. It's like Brazil losing to Croatia and denying us a Latino el Classico this WC.
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France12911 Posts
On December 20 2022 22:32 RKC wrote:Show nested quote +On December 20 2022 22:27 Poopi wrote:On December 20 2022 22:26 MyLovelyLurker wrote:On December 20 2022 22:23 RKC wrote:
Zidane carrying France in WC 2006 was an epic fairy-tale run. The sending off was such a tragic end. I'm guessing the pain of that loss in 2006 must be even worse than 2022.
Another all-time WC heartbreak is Baggio in WC 1994. His goals almost single-handedly rescued Italy during the knockouts.
Unfortunately, both their legacy in those WC will be more remembered for the heat-butt and penalty miss. Football history can be really cruel to the runners-up and tragic heroes. Yes. I remember it well. It felt like an own goal. "Not like that". 2022 is very different, we didn't deserve to win in the first place, then almost did but got thwarted by brilliance. This is fine. Yeah, their can’t be more pain than France - Italy 2006, but that’s probably why Deschamps now plays ugly realistic football. To Acrofales: Argentina was advantaged throughout the tournament, and expectedly won. You are free to believe what you want though. If they deserve to win or not is not my point (there is no meritocracy in football) ; and the « Argentina has been advantaged throughout the tournament » is my statistical intuition if you wish. I'm guessing the mindset shift was also because of the loss against Portugal in Euro 2016? France really played sexy football throughout that tournament and the finals. Yet another heartbreaking result to footballing purist fans like myself.
I think that generation was just too young: they expected to roll over Portugal because we finally beat Germany, but the job was not over.
I am not in Deschamps shoes but from what I have heard, since he has won a lot and lost a lot, he really knows how to talk to players as individuals and motivate them. That’s probably why Kolo Muani looked like a different man in national play compared to football.
That’s also probably why Deschamps won’t resign: players love him, but at this point France desperately needs a new play style.
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On December 20 2022 22:35 MyLovelyLurker wrote:Show nested quote +On December 20 2022 22:32 RKC wrote:On December 20 2022 22:27 Poopi wrote:On December 20 2022 22:26 MyLovelyLurker wrote:On December 20 2022 22:23 RKC wrote:
Zidane carrying France in WC 2006 was an epic fairy-tale run. The sending off was such a tragic end. I'm guessing the pain of that loss in 2006 must be even worse than 2022.
Another all-time WC heartbreak is Baggio in WC 1994. His goals almost single-handedly rescued Italy during the knockouts.
Unfortunately, both their legacy in those WC will be more remembered for the heat-butt and penalty miss. Football history can be really cruel to the runners-up and tragic heroes. Yes. I remember it well. It felt like an own goal. "Not like that". 2022 is very different, we didn't deserve to win in the first place, then almost did but got thwarted by brilliance. This is fine. Yeah, their can’t be more pain than France - Italy 2006, but that’s probably why Deschamps now plays ugly realistic football. To Acrofales: Argentina was advantaged throughout the tournament, and expectedly won. You are free to believe what you want though. If they deserve to win or not is not my point (there is no meritocracy in football) ; and the « Argentina has been advantaged throughout the tournament » is my statistical intuition if you wish. I'm guessing the mindset shift was also because of the loss against Portugal in Euro 2016? France really played sexy football throughout that tournament and the finals. Yet another heartbreaking result to footballing purist fans like myself. I was about to say the final nail in that coffin of flamboyant French football was France-Switzerland last Euro. We went full anime with Pogba and Benzema and then forgot to undo super-saiyan and fell off the cliff. Never again.
Flamboyant is a charitable way to describe the behavior of French players during that game. I would use arrogant.
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On December 20 2022 22:59 justanothertownie wrote:Show nested quote +On December 20 2022 22:35 MyLovelyLurker wrote:On December 20 2022 22:32 RKC wrote:On December 20 2022 22:27 Poopi wrote:On December 20 2022 22:26 MyLovelyLurker wrote:On December 20 2022 22:23 RKC wrote:
Zidane carrying France in WC 2006 was an epic fairy-tale run. The sending off was such a tragic end. I'm guessing the pain of that loss in 2006 must be even worse than 2022.
Another all-time WC heartbreak is Baggio in WC 1994. His goals almost single-handedly rescued Italy during the knockouts.
Unfortunately, both their legacy in those WC will be more remembered for the heat-butt and penalty miss. Football history can be really cruel to the runners-up and tragic heroes. Yes. I remember it well. It felt like an own goal. "Not like that". 2022 is very different, we didn't deserve to win in the first place, then almost did but got thwarted by brilliance. This is fine. Yeah, their can’t be more pain than France - Italy 2006, but that’s probably why Deschamps now plays ugly realistic football. To Acrofales: Argentina was advantaged throughout the tournament, and expectedly won. You are free to believe what you want though. If they deserve to win or not is not my point (there is no meritocracy in football) ; and the « Argentina has been advantaged throughout the tournament » is my statistical intuition if you wish. I'm guessing the mindset shift was also because of the loss against Portugal in Euro 2016? France really played sexy football throughout that tournament and the finals. Yet another heartbreaking result to footballing purist fans like myself. I was about to say the final nail in that coffin of flamboyant French football was France-Switzerland last Euro. We went full anime with Pogba and Benzema and then forgot to undo super-saiyan and fell off the cliff. Never again. Flamboyant is a charitable way to describe the behavior of French players during that game. I would use arrogant.
Yeah I'm not about to defend what went on in that game, I don't understand it myself lol. Only 'circumstance' I can think of is apparently our midfielders were confused about system change to 3-5-2 IIRC, but they should absolutely have protected our lead once the rush of blood to the head had passed.
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Deschamps has shown signs of breeding a new generation of stars (Thuram, Kolo Muani, etc). And he's proven to be able to employ different tactics to maximise his players' potential, and above all, a willingness to learn from mistakes and adapt. He's prime to deliver a few more trophies for France. Best national manager in Europe for sure (if not the world as well).
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Northern Ireland26612 Posts
On December 20 2022 22:06 MyLovelyLurker wrote:Show nested quote +On December 20 2022 21:13 WombaT wrote:On December 20 2022 07:25 sharkie wrote:On December 20 2022 06:47 WombaT wrote:On December 20 2022 01:22 sharkie wrote:
Dont ronaldos teammates always speak positively about him too? I dont think you can give that any value?^^ We can just watch Messi’s teammates all mobbing him the final whistle. I think with anyone of that stature whenever anyone is asked in an interview for their opinion they’ll keep their mouth shut and be diplomatic and say they’re a great teammate, regardless of the truth of it. But that outpouring of emotion at the final whistle did seem absolutely genuine and that Messi’s teammates were all happy to have helped him get that WC itch scratched. With Messi I can see him being a bad teammate just in the sense that it’s pretty intimidating playing with the arguable GOAT. But that aside he seems a pretty good citizen with his conduct. Ronaldo has chewed out his teammates for years in full public view if a pass goes astray, he’s done an interview saying basically everyone who isn’t him in Man United sucks. And still if Portugal had won the world cup his teammates would have swarmed him and cheered him, kinda like in 2016. Please, these scenes dont mean anything about how both of them truly are... But they do tell us something. They don’t tell us everything about the totality of a man’s soul or character, but they don’t tell us nothing either. Ronaldo has a reputation for being incredibly generous with his money, and his time, especially when youngsters are involved. In that domain he seems a great bloke. When it’s football time though? He’s refused to come on in a game, he’s savaged an entire club in an interview and he’s stormed off down the tunnel immediately after a World Cup exit, only in a matter of months. Don’t need any great insight, these were in full public view. We’ve all had colleagues who are a pain, but they were that good at their job that they made our jobs easier, and let us reach new heights so, on balance it’s worth putting up with. If they stop performing well, those previously tolerable quirks become intolerable and I’d put money on some of his compatriots on the NT who’d tell you that this is the case if you could get them off the record You have a point but aren't these the flipsides of the same coin ? Ronaldo got to where he is through sheer inhuman discipline, and is still performing at a time-defying level through what I can only imagine is gruelling training. It's not unthinkable that he'd become frustrated with colleagues taking it slightly easier than him and that he can clearly see are not achieving their full potential and maybe even letting him down ? As you age, you become more critical. Basically he might just be an idealist seeing the best in people until they disappoint, and discounting his own talent.
Or you can mellow a bit?
You can still have that huge drive to win while still showing some class and respect to your opponents if things don’t work out. Or your coach, or your teammates.
The problem is he’s demanding standards that he himself isn’t delivering anymore.
Look, it must be very psychologically difficult to be on the slide down from being one of the greatest exponent of your chosen activity of all time, I mean that I get but equally he is navigating those difficulties terribly.
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EPT
