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France12761 Posts
On December 20 2022 01:29 RKC wrote:
Both Ronaldo and Messi make good role models. Unfortunately, Ronaldo's behaviour in the last few months have been rather poor. This is unfortunate because I honestly believe Ronaldo in the right headspace could've won the game against Morocco had he started. We don't know what exactly went behind the scenes. But it's quite obvious that the whole team dynamics was affected by his recent behaviour. Which is a shame because Portugal with peak Ronaldo could also have beaten France in the semies and set up a battle of the GOATs in the finals against Argentina.
Then we agree I guess. They can both be good role models, but not at all points of their career. I don’t follow football day in and day out so I trust you if you tell me that Ronaldo has not been acting well recently, and that’s unfortunate. If Messi managed to improve his behavior that’s also a very good thing!
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Northern Ireland24255 Posts
On December 20 2022 01:22 sharkie wrote:
Dont ronaldos teammates always speak positively about him too? I dont think you can give that any value?^^
We can just watch Messi’s teammates all mobbing him the final whistle.
I think with anyone of that stature whenever anyone is asked in an interview for their opinion they’ll keep their mouth shut and be diplomatic and say they’re a great teammate, regardless of the truth of it.
But that outpouring of emotion at the final whistle did seem absolutely genuine and that Messi’s teammates were all happy to have helped him get that WC itch scratched.
With Messi I can see him being a bad teammate just in the sense that it’s pretty intimidating playing with the arguable GOAT. But that aside he seems a pretty good citizen with his conduct.
Ronaldo has chewed out his teammates for years in full public view if a pass goes astray, he’s done an interview saying basically everyone who isn’t him in Man United sucks.
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On December 20 2022 06:47 WombaT wrote:Show nested quote +On December 20 2022 01:22 sharkie wrote:
Dont ronaldos teammates always speak positively about him too? I dont think you can give that any value?^^ We can just watch Messi’s teammates all mobbing him the final whistle. I think with anyone of that stature whenever anyone is asked in an interview for their opinion they’ll keep their mouth shut and be diplomatic and say they’re a great teammate, regardless of the truth of it. But that outpouring of emotion at the final whistle did seem absolutely genuine and that Messi’s teammates were all happy to have helped him get that WC itch scratched. With Messi I can see him being a bad teammate just in the sense that it’s pretty intimidating playing with the arguable GOAT. But that aside he seems a pretty good citizen with his conduct. Ronaldo has chewed out his teammates for years in full public view if a pass goes astray, he’s done an interview saying basically everyone who isn’t him in Man United sucks.
And still if Portugal had won the world cup his teammates would have swarmed him and cheered him, kinda like in 2016. Please, these scenes dont mean anything about how both of them truly are...
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If Messi missed a penalty and Argentina lost, the Argentinian players and fans would've lynched Messi on the spot and hunt down his family...
So Ronaldo fanboys prefer to live in some multiverse where Portugal won the WC and Ronaldo is GOAT. Cool story. But back to our world...
The fact is that Portugal lost to Morocco and Ronaldo marched straight down the tunnel in tears alone without acknowledging the Moroccans or even his own teammates. Whilst Messi stayed on the pitch after losing the WC 2014 finals despite being heart-broken (oh, and instead of being lynched, the whole Argentinian nation supported him till he won the WC in 2022).
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France12761 Posts
On December 20 2022 11:41 RKC wrote:
If Messi missed a penalty and Argentina lost, the Argentinian players and fans would've lynched Messi on the spot and hunt down his family...
So Ronaldo fanboys prefer to live in some multiverse where Portugal won the WC and Ronaldo is GOAT. Cool story. But back to our world...
The fact is that Portugal lost to Morocco and Ronaldo marched straight down the tunnel in tears alone without acknowledging the Moroccans or even his own teammates. Whilst Messi stayed on the pitch after losing the WC 2014 finals despite being heart-broken (oh, and instead of being lynched, the whole Argentinian nation supported him till he won the WC in 2022).
Didn’t we agree that Mbappe is goat already though? 
3 goals in a single World Cup finals, created plays all by himself.
On the other hand, Messi was carried by Di Maria!
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On December 20 2022 13:09 Poopi wrote:Show nested quote +On December 20 2022 11:41 RKC wrote:
If Messi missed a penalty and Argentina lost, the Argentinian players and fans would've lynched Messi on the spot and hunt down his family...
So Ronaldo fanboys prefer to live in some multiverse where Portugal won the WC and Ronaldo is GOAT. Cool story. But back to our world...
The fact is that Portugal lost to Morocco and Ronaldo marched straight down the tunnel in tears alone without acknowledging the Moroccans or even his own teammates. Whilst Messi stayed on the pitch after losing the WC 2014 finals despite being heart-broken (oh, and instead of being lynched, the whole Argentinian nation supported him till he won the WC in 2022). Didn’t we agree that Mbappe is goat already though? 3 goals in a single World Cup finals, created plays all by himself. On the other hand, Messi was carried by Di Maria!
i cant tell if youre being sarcastic or serious. if youre being serious you have to stop. its getting embarrassing
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All this GOAT talk is endless and nauseating.
PSG v Bayern in the Champions League RO16 is going to be an even spicier treat. Bayern has 3 French players - Hernandez, Upacemano, and Coman. Rather awkward for them to face Mbappe on the opposite side - next to Messi!
The WC must surely take a toll on both Messi and Mbappe for the rest of the reason. But who knows, they may even continue their good form and lead PSG to CL glory!
P.S. I also wonder and worry whether Messi will face some hostile reception back in Paris or France as a whole...
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Coman did not have a big problem winning the CL final against psg. The problem/question is rather who will be in goal for bayern.
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On December 20 2022 18:34 RKC wrote:
All this GOAT talk is endless and nauseating.
PSG v Bayern in the Champions League RO16 is going to be an even spicier treat. Bayern has 3 French players - Hernandez, Upacemano, and Coman. Rather awkward for them to face Mbappe on the opposite side - next to Messi!
The WC must surely take a toll on both Messi and Mbappe for the rest of the reason. But who knows, they may even continue their good form and lead PSG to CL glory!
P.S. I also wonder and worry whether Messi will face some hostile reception back in Paris or France as a whole...
Nah, I don't think so - some French people even wanted him to win. Mainstream media is quite measured. "L'Equipe" puts him on the cover with Pele and Maradona and a 'Welcome with giants, Leo' headline. But you never can know the reaction of ultra fans (whom I'm seeing are now busy doing online racism against Kolo Muani and Tchouameni, just like racism against Rashford et al. in England after the Euro). Also I'm quite sure he leads a very sheltered life. We don't think of him that way but guy's a billionaire after all, he can afford security.
It boils down to this though - PSG had been terrible for such a long time, before Qatari money arrived. I think it'd take a special kind of braindead to complain we have the best two players of the World Cup in our team !
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Northern Ireland24255 Posts
On December 20 2022 07:25 sharkie wrote:Show nested quote +On December 20 2022 06:47 WombaT wrote:On December 20 2022 01:22 sharkie wrote:
Dont ronaldos teammates always speak positively about him too? I dont think you can give that any value?^^ We can just watch Messi’s teammates all mobbing him the final whistle. I think with anyone of that stature whenever anyone is asked in an interview for their opinion they’ll keep their mouth shut and be diplomatic and say they’re a great teammate, regardless of the truth of it. But that outpouring of emotion at the final whistle did seem absolutely genuine and that Messi’s teammates were all happy to have helped him get that WC itch scratched. With Messi I can see him being a bad teammate just in the sense that it’s pretty intimidating playing with the arguable GOAT. But that aside he seems a pretty good citizen with his conduct. Ronaldo has chewed out his teammates for years in full public view if a pass goes astray, he’s done an interview saying basically everyone who isn’t him in Man United sucks. And still if Portugal had won the world cup his teammates would have swarmed him and cheered him, kinda like in 2016. Please, these scenes dont mean anything about how both of them truly are...
But they do tell us something. They don’t tell us everything about the totality of a man’s soul or character, but they don’t tell us nothing either.
Ronaldo has a reputation for being incredibly generous with his money, and his time, especially when youngsters are involved. In that domain he seems a great bloke.
When it’s football time though? He’s refused to come on in a game, he’s savaged an entire club in an interview and he’s stormed off down the tunnel immediately after a World Cup exit, only in a matter of months.
Don’t need any great insight, these were in full public view. We’ve all had colleagues who are a pain, but they were that good at their job that they made our jobs easier, and let us reach new heights so, on balance it’s worth putting up with.
If they stop performing well, those previously tolerable quirks become intolerable and I’d put money on some of his compatriots on the NT who’d tell you that this is the case if you could get them off the record
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Northern Ireland24255 Posts
On December 20 2022 18:34 RKC wrote:
All this GOAT talk is endless and nauseating.
PSG v Bayern in the Champions League RO16 is going to be an even spicier treat. Bayern has 3 French players - Hernandez, Upacemano, and Coman. Rather awkward for them to face Mbappe on the opposite side - next to Messi!
The WC must surely take a toll on both Messi and Mbappe for the rest of the reason. But who knows, they may even continue their good form and lead PSG to CL glory!
P.S. I also wonder and worry whether Messi will face some hostile reception back in Paris or France as a whole...
My guess is PSG get even scarier, provided the WC disappointment wasn’t too crushing.
Messi’s got the World Cup and a huge pressure off his shoulders, so he can almost play more freely without much pressure.
Neymar and Mbappe are both men with a point to prove in, WC hype aside the premier competition there is for quality so they should be very motivated indeed.
Of the 3, I think for the sake of PSG’s momentum Messi winning the ultimate prize was probably the best option, I could see the other two coasting a bit if they had.
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France12761 Posts
On December 20 2022 21:13 WombaT wrote:Show nested quote +On December 20 2022 07:25 sharkie wrote:On December 20 2022 06:47 WombaT wrote:On December 20 2022 01:22 sharkie wrote:
Dont ronaldos teammates always speak positively about him too? I dont think you can give that any value?^^ We can just watch Messi’s teammates all mobbing him the final whistle. I think with anyone of that stature whenever anyone is asked in an interview for their opinion they’ll keep their mouth shut and be diplomatic and say they’re a great teammate, regardless of the truth of it. But that outpouring of emotion at the final whistle did seem absolutely genuine and that Messi’s teammates were all happy to have helped him get that WC itch scratched. With Messi I can see him being a bad teammate just in the sense that it’s pretty intimidating playing with the arguable GOAT. But that aside he seems a pretty good citizen with his conduct. Ronaldo has chewed out his teammates for years in full public view if a pass goes astray, he’s done an interview saying basically everyone who isn’t him in Man United sucks. And still if Portugal had won the world cup his teammates would have swarmed him and cheered him, kinda like in 2016. Please, these scenes dont mean anything about how both of them truly are... But they do tell us something. They don’t tell us everything about the totality of a man’s soul or character, but they don’t tell us nothing either. Ronaldo has a reputation for being incredibly generous with his money, and his time, especially when youngsters are involved. In that domain he seems a great bloke. When it’s football time though? He’s refused to come on in a game, he’s savaged an entire club in an interview and he’s stormed off down the tunnel immediately after a World Cup exit, only in a matter of months. Don’t need any great insight, these were in full public view. We’ve all had colleagues who are a pain, but they were that good at their job that they made our jobs easier, and let us reach new heights so, on balance it’s worth putting up with. If they stop performing well, those previously tolerable quirks become intolerable and I’d put money on some of his compatriots on the NT who’d tell you that this is the case if you could get them off the record
Storming off the tunnel is imho a very good ending to a career. Not as impressive as Zidane headbutt (you can’t top that, it’s just a masterpiece of an exit) but it is particularly subjective. Some people prefer a classy (imho boring) exit, whereas other (such as me) prefer to see a man exit like he truly wants to.
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On December 20 2022 21:52 Poopi wrote:Show nested quote +On December 20 2022 21:13 WombaT wrote:On December 20 2022 07:25 sharkie wrote:On December 20 2022 06:47 WombaT wrote:On December 20 2022 01:22 sharkie wrote:
Dont ronaldos teammates always speak positively about him too? I dont think you can give that any value?^^ We can just watch Messi’s teammates all mobbing him the final whistle. I think with anyone of that stature whenever anyone is asked in an interview for their opinion they’ll keep their mouth shut and be diplomatic and say they’re a great teammate, regardless of the truth of it. But that outpouring of emotion at the final whistle did seem absolutely genuine and that Messi’s teammates were all happy to have helped him get that WC itch scratched. With Messi I can see him being a bad teammate just in the sense that it’s pretty intimidating playing with the arguable GOAT. But that aside he seems a pretty good citizen with his conduct. Ronaldo has chewed out his teammates for years in full public view if a pass goes astray, he’s done an interview saying basically everyone who isn’t him in Man United sucks. And still if Portugal had won the world cup his teammates would have swarmed him and cheered him, kinda like in 2016. Please, these scenes dont mean anything about how both of them truly are... But they do tell us something. They don’t tell us everything about the totality of a man’s soul or character, but they don’t tell us nothing either. Ronaldo has a reputation for being incredibly generous with his money, and his time, especially when youngsters are involved. In that domain he seems a great bloke. When it’s football time though? He’s refused to come on in a game, he’s savaged an entire club in an interview and he’s stormed off down the tunnel immediately after a World Cup exit, only in a matter of months. Don’t need any great insight, these were in full public view. We’ve all had colleagues who are a pain, but they were that good at their job that they made our jobs easier, and let us reach new heights so, on balance it’s worth putting up with. If they stop performing well, those previously tolerable quirks become intolerable and I’d put money on some of his compatriots on the NT who’d tell you that this is the case if you could get them off the record Storming off the tunnel is imho a very good ending to a career. Not as impressive as Zidane headbutt (you can’t top that, it’s just a masterpiece of an exit) but it is particularly subjective. Some people prefer a classy (imho boring) exit, whereas other (such as me) prefer to see a man exit like he truly wants to.
I don't think Zidane wanted to end his career on a red card for headbutting a sneaky defender who was verbally abusing him all game. I assume he'd like to have ended his career scoring the winner in that final. Or, at the very least, just plain winning it. France was a different team before and after his red card.
Similarly, I don't think CR7 wanted to lose the match against Morocco, and I highly HIGHLY doubt CR7 wanted his final match for the NT to be as a sub in a game where he was unable to make the difference. He didn't storm off because that was how he truly wanted to exit...
Messi is exiting the way he wants to exit. A national hero who has achieved everything there possibly is to achieve as a football player. He may continue playing for the national team, but it'll be as an accolade. This was his last big tournament as the main man on the team. Anything else would be an error by him and the manager. I can imagine him continuing to be a huge asset in the dressing room, but the next big cup should have Alvarez, Fernandez, Macalister and other youngsters in the spotlight. If Messi is there, it'll be in a similar role as Cuauhtémoc Blanco in the 2010 world cup for Mexico.
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France12761 Posts
On December 20 2022 21:59 Acrofales wrote:Show nested quote +On December 20 2022 21:52 Poopi wrote:On December 20 2022 21:13 WombaT wrote:On December 20 2022 07:25 sharkie wrote:On December 20 2022 06:47 WombaT wrote:On December 20 2022 01:22 sharkie wrote:
Dont ronaldos teammates always speak positively about him too? I dont think you can give that any value?^^ We can just watch Messi’s teammates all mobbing him the final whistle. I think with anyone of that stature whenever anyone is asked in an interview for their opinion they’ll keep their mouth shut and be diplomatic and say they’re a great teammate, regardless of the truth of it. But that outpouring of emotion at the final whistle did seem absolutely genuine and that Messi’s teammates were all happy to have helped him get that WC itch scratched. With Messi I can see him being a bad teammate just in the sense that it’s pretty intimidating playing with the arguable GOAT. But that aside he seems a pretty good citizen with his conduct. Ronaldo has chewed out his teammates for years in full public view if a pass goes astray, he’s done an interview saying basically everyone who isn’t him in Man United sucks. And still if Portugal had won the world cup his teammates would have swarmed him and cheered him, kinda like in 2016. Please, these scenes dont mean anything about how both of them truly are... But they do tell us something. They don’t tell us everything about the totality of a man’s soul or character, but they don’t tell us nothing either. Ronaldo has a reputation for being incredibly generous with his money, and his time, especially when youngsters are involved. In that domain he seems a great bloke. When it’s football time though? He’s refused to come on in a game, he’s savaged an entire club in an interview and he’s stormed off down the tunnel immediately after a World Cup exit, only in a matter of months. Don’t need any great insight, these were in full public view. We’ve all had colleagues who are a pain, but they were that good at their job that they made our jobs easier, and let us reach new heights so, on balance it’s worth putting up with. If they stop performing well, those previously tolerable quirks become intolerable and I’d put money on some of his compatriots on the NT who’d tell you that this is the case if you could get them off the record Storming off the tunnel is imho a very good ending to a career. Not as impressive as Zidane headbutt (you can’t top that, it’s just a masterpiece of an exit) but it is particularly subjective. Some people prefer a classy (imho boring) exit, whereas other (such as me) prefer to see a man exit like he truly wants to. I don't think Zidane wanted to end his career on a red card for headbutting a sneaky defender who was verbally abusing him all game. I assume he'd like to have ended his career scoring the winner in that final. Or, at the very least, just plain winning it. France was a different team before and after his red card. Similarly, I don't think CR7 wanted to lose the match against Morocco, and I highly HIGHLY doubt CR7 wanted his final match for the NT to be as a sub in a game where he was unable to make the difference. He didn't storm off because that was how he truly wanted to exit...
That he wanted or not is not the point, he can’t himself know what he wanted. He can only know what he got and live with it.
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On December 20 2022 21:13 WombaT wrote:Show nested quote +On December 20 2022 07:25 sharkie wrote:On December 20 2022 06:47 WombaT wrote:On December 20 2022 01:22 sharkie wrote:
Dont ronaldos teammates always speak positively about him too? I dont think you can give that any value?^^ We can just watch Messi’s teammates all mobbing him the final whistle. I think with anyone of that stature whenever anyone is asked in an interview for their opinion they’ll keep their mouth shut and be diplomatic and say they’re a great teammate, regardless of the truth of it. But that outpouring of emotion at the final whistle did seem absolutely genuine and that Messi’s teammates were all happy to have helped him get that WC itch scratched. With Messi I can see him being a bad teammate just in the sense that it’s pretty intimidating playing with the arguable GOAT. But that aside he seems a pretty good citizen with his conduct. Ronaldo has chewed out his teammates for years in full public view if a pass goes astray, he’s done an interview saying basically everyone who isn’t him in Man United sucks. And still if Portugal had won the world cup his teammates would have swarmed him and cheered him, kinda like in 2016. Please, these scenes dont mean anything about how both of them truly are... But they do tell us something. They don’t tell us everything about the totality of a man’s soul or character, but they don’t tell us nothing either. Ronaldo has a reputation for being incredibly generous with his money, and his time, especially when youngsters are involved. In that domain he seems a great bloke. When it’s football time though? He’s refused to come on in a game, he’s savaged an entire club in an interview and he’s stormed off down the tunnel immediately after a World Cup exit, only in a matter of months. Don’t need any great insight, these were in full public view. We’ve all had colleagues who are a pain, but they were that good at their job that they made our jobs easier, and let us reach new heights so, on balance it’s worth putting up with. If they stop performing well, those previously tolerable quirks become intolerable and I’d put money on some of his compatriots on the NT who’d tell you that this is the case if you could get them off the record
You have a point but aren't these the flipsides of the same coin ? Ronaldo got to where he is through sheer inhuman discipline, and is still performing at a time-defying level through what I can only imagine is gruelling training. It's not unthinkable that he'd become frustrated with colleagues taking it slightly easier than him and that he can clearly see are not achieving their full potential and maybe even letting him down ? As you age, you become more critical. Basically he might just be an idealist seeing the best in people until they disappoint, and discounting his own talent.
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On December 20 2022 22:00 Poopi wrote:Show nested quote +On December 20 2022 21:59 Acrofales wrote:On December 20 2022 21:52 Poopi wrote:On December 20 2022 21:13 WombaT wrote:On December 20 2022 07:25 sharkie wrote:On December 20 2022 06:47 WombaT wrote:On December 20 2022 01:22 sharkie wrote:
Dont ronaldos teammates always speak positively about him too? I dont think you can give that any value?^^ We can just watch Messi’s teammates all mobbing him the final whistle. I think with anyone of that stature whenever anyone is asked in an interview for their opinion they’ll keep their mouth shut and be diplomatic and say they’re a great teammate, regardless of the truth of it. But that outpouring of emotion at the final whistle did seem absolutely genuine and that Messi’s teammates were all happy to have helped him get that WC itch scratched. With Messi I can see him being a bad teammate just in the sense that it’s pretty intimidating playing with the arguable GOAT. But that aside he seems a pretty good citizen with his conduct. Ronaldo has chewed out his teammates for years in full public view if a pass goes astray, he’s done an interview saying basically everyone who isn’t him in Man United sucks. And still if Portugal had won the world cup his teammates would have swarmed him and cheered him, kinda like in 2016. Please, these scenes dont mean anything about how both of them truly are... But they do tell us something. They don’t tell us everything about the totality of a man’s soul or character, but they don’t tell us nothing either. Ronaldo has a reputation for being incredibly generous with his money, and his time, especially when youngsters are involved. In that domain he seems a great bloke. When it’s football time though? He’s refused to come on in a game, he’s savaged an entire club in an interview and he’s stormed off down the tunnel immediately after a World Cup exit, only in a matter of months. Don’t need any great insight, these were in full public view. We’ve all had colleagues who are a pain, but they were that good at their job that they made our jobs easier, and let us reach new heights so, on balance it’s worth putting up with. If they stop performing well, those previously tolerable quirks become intolerable and I’d put money on some of his compatriots on the NT who’d tell you that this is the case if you could get them off the record Storming off the tunnel is imho a very good ending to a career. Not as impressive as Zidane headbutt (you can’t top that, it’s just a masterpiece of an exit) but it is particularly subjective. Some people prefer a classy (imho boring) exit, whereas other (such as me) prefer to see a man exit like he truly wants to. I don't think Zidane wanted to end his career on a red card for headbutting a sneaky defender who was verbally abusing him all game. I assume he'd like to have ended his career scoring the winner in that final. Or, at the very least, just plain winning it. France was a different team before and after his red card. Similarly, I don't think CR7 wanted to lose the match against Morocco, and I highly HIGHLY doubt CR7 wanted his final match for the NT to be as a sub in a game where he was unable to make the difference. He didn't storm off because that was how he truly wanted to exit... That he wanted or not is not the point, he can’t himself know what he wanted. He can only know what he got and live with it.
You gave those two as examples for your preferred way of exiting, and I quote: "like he truly wants to".
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France12761 Posts
On December 20 2022 22:07 Acrofales wrote:Show nested quote +On December 20 2022 22:00 Poopi wrote:On December 20 2022 21:59 Acrofales wrote:On December 20 2022 21:52 Poopi wrote:On December 20 2022 21:13 WombaT wrote:On December 20 2022 07:25 sharkie wrote:On December 20 2022 06:47 WombaT wrote:On December 20 2022 01:22 sharkie wrote:
Dont ronaldos teammates always speak positively about him too? I dont think you can give that any value?^^ We can just watch Messi’s teammates all mobbing him the final whistle. I think with anyone of that stature whenever anyone is asked in an interview for their opinion they’ll keep their mouth shut and be diplomatic and say they’re a great teammate, regardless of the truth of it. But that outpouring of emotion at the final whistle did seem absolutely genuine and that Messi’s teammates were all happy to have helped him get that WC itch scratched. With Messi I can see him being a bad teammate just in the sense that it’s pretty intimidating playing with the arguable GOAT. But that aside he seems a pretty good citizen with his conduct. Ronaldo has chewed out his teammates for years in full public view if a pass goes astray, he’s done an interview saying basically everyone who isn’t him in Man United sucks. And still if Portugal had won the world cup his teammates would have swarmed him and cheered him, kinda like in 2016. Please, these scenes dont mean anything about how both of them truly are... But they do tell us something. They don’t tell us everything about the totality of a man’s soul or character, but they don’t tell us nothing either. Ronaldo has a reputation for being incredibly generous with his money, and his time, especially when youngsters are involved. In that domain he seems a great bloke. When it’s football time though? He’s refused to come on in a game, he’s savaged an entire club in an interview and he’s stormed off down the tunnel immediately after a World Cup exit, only in a matter of months. Don’t need any great insight, these were in full public view. We’ve all had colleagues who are a pain, but they were that good at their job that they made our jobs easier, and let us reach new heights so, on balance it’s worth putting up with. If they stop performing well, those previously tolerable quirks become intolerable and I’d put money on some of his compatriots on the NT who’d tell you that this is the case if you could get them off the record Storming off the tunnel is imho a very good ending to a career. Not as impressive as Zidane headbutt (you can’t top that, it’s just a masterpiece of an exit) but it is particularly subjective. Some people prefer a classy (imho boring) exit, whereas other (such as me) prefer to see a man exit like he truly wants to. I don't think Zidane wanted to end his career on a red card for headbutting a sneaky defender who was verbally abusing him all game. I assume he'd like to have ended his career scoring the winner in that final. Or, at the very least, just plain winning it. France was a different team before and after his red card. Similarly, I don't think CR7 wanted to lose the match against Morocco, and I highly HIGHLY doubt CR7 wanted his final match for the NT to be as a sub in a game where he was unable to make the difference. He didn't storm off because that was how he truly wanted to exit... That he wanted or not is not the point, he can’t himself know what he wanted. He can only know what he got and live with it. You gave those two as examples for your preferred way of exiting, and I quote: "like he truly wants to".
Yes, and himself cannot know what he truly wants. That’s the point, if one can’t even know for oneself, how can we imagine what others are truly wanting? We can only assume. You can highly HIGHLY doubt, doesn’t mean you will know for sure.
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On December 20 2022 22:00 Poopi wrote:Show nested quote +On December 20 2022 21:59 Acrofales wrote:On December 20 2022 21:52 Poopi wrote:On December 20 2022 21:13 WombaT wrote:On December 20 2022 07:25 sharkie wrote:On December 20 2022 06:47 WombaT wrote:On December 20 2022 01:22 sharkie wrote:
Dont ronaldos teammates always speak positively about him too? I dont think you can give that any value?^^ We can just watch Messi’s teammates all mobbing him the final whistle. I think with anyone of that stature whenever anyone is asked in an interview for their opinion they’ll keep their mouth shut and be diplomatic and say they’re a great teammate, regardless of the truth of it. But that outpouring of emotion at the final whistle did seem absolutely genuine and that Messi’s teammates were all happy to have helped him get that WC itch scratched. With Messi I can see him being a bad teammate just in the sense that it’s pretty intimidating playing with the arguable GOAT. But that aside he seems a pretty good citizen with his conduct. Ronaldo has chewed out his teammates for years in full public view if a pass goes astray, he’s done an interview saying basically everyone who isn’t him in Man United sucks. And still if Portugal had won the world cup his teammates would have swarmed him and cheered him, kinda like in 2016. Please, these scenes dont mean anything about how both of them truly are... But they do tell us something. They don’t tell us everything about the totality of a man’s soul or character, but they don’t tell us nothing either. Ronaldo has a reputation for being incredibly generous with his money, and his time, especially when youngsters are involved. In that domain he seems a great bloke. When it’s football time though? He’s refused to come on in a game, he’s savaged an entire club in an interview and he’s stormed off down the tunnel immediately after a World Cup exit, only in a matter of months. Don’t need any great insight, these were in full public view. We’ve all had colleagues who are a pain, but they were that good at their job that they made our jobs easier, and let us reach new heights so, on balance it’s worth putting up with. If they stop performing well, those previously tolerable quirks become intolerable and I’d put money on some of his compatriots on the NT who’d tell you that this is the case if you could get them off the record Storming off the tunnel is imho a very good ending to a career. Not as impressive as Zidane headbutt (you can’t top that, it’s just a masterpiece of an exit) but it is particularly subjective. Some people prefer a classy (imho boring) exit, whereas other (such as me) prefer to see a man exit like he truly wants to. I don't think Zidane wanted to end his career on a red card for headbutting a sneaky defender who was verbally abusing him all game. I assume he'd like to have ended his career scoring the winner in that final. Or, at the very least, just plain winning it. France was a different team before and after his red card. Similarly, I don't think CR7 wanted to lose the match against Morocco, and I highly HIGHLY doubt CR7 wanted his final match for the NT to be as a sub in a game where he was unable to make the difference. He didn't storm off because that was how he truly wanted to exit... That he wanted or not is not the point, he can’t himself know what he wanted. He can only know what he got and live with it.
Nothing wrong with crying IMHO. His 37 year belief that if you try the best you can, you will succeed ultimately got shattered in one instant. Guy's not used to failing so it stings more. When all's said and done people will remember the dramatic TV-friendly moment, but that's a footnote to 20 years of hard work.
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France12761 Posts
On December 20 2022 22:13 MyLovelyLurker wrote:Show nested quote +On December 20 2022 22:00 Poopi wrote:On December 20 2022 21:59 Acrofales wrote:On December 20 2022 21:52 Poopi wrote:On December 20 2022 21:13 WombaT wrote:On December 20 2022 07:25 sharkie wrote:On December 20 2022 06:47 WombaT wrote:On December 20 2022 01:22 sharkie wrote:
Dont ronaldos teammates always speak positively about him too? I dont think you can give that any value?^^ We can just watch Messi’s teammates all mobbing him the final whistle. I think with anyone of that stature whenever anyone is asked in an interview for their opinion they’ll keep their mouth shut and be diplomatic and say they’re a great teammate, regardless of the truth of it. But that outpouring of emotion at the final whistle did seem absolutely genuine and that Messi’s teammates were all happy to have helped him get that WC itch scratched. With Messi I can see him being a bad teammate just in the sense that it’s pretty intimidating playing with the arguable GOAT. But that aside he seems a pretty good citizen with his conduct. Ronaldo has chewed out his teammates for years in full public view if a pass goes astray, he’s done an interview saying basically everyone who isn’t him in Man United sucks. And still if Portugal had won the world cup his teammates would have swarmed him and cheered him, kinda like in 2016. Please, these scenes dont mean anything about how both of them truly are... But they do tell us something. They don’t tell us everything about the totality of a man’s soul or character, but they don’t tell us nothing either. Ronaldo has a reputation for being incredibly generous with his money, and his time, especially when youngsters are involved. In that domain he seems a great bloke. When it’s football time though? He’s refused to come on in a game, he’s savaged an entire club in an interview and he’s stormed off down the tunnel immediately after a World Cup exit, only in a matter of months. Don’t need any great insight, these were in full public view. We’ve all had colleagues who are a pain, but they were that good at their job that they made our jobs easier, and let us reach new heights so, on balance it’s worth putting up with. If they stop performing well, those previously tolerable quirks become intolerable and I’d put money on some of his compatriots on the NT who’d tell you that this is the case if you could get them off the record Storming off the tunnel is imho a very good ending to a career. Not as impressive as Zidane headbutt (you can’t top that, it’s just a masterpiece of an exit) but it is particularly subjective. Some people prefer a classy (imho boring) exit, whereas other (such as me) prefer to see a man exit like he truly wants to. I don't think Zidane wanted to end his career on a red card for headbutting a sneaky defender who was verbally abusing him all game. I assume he'd like to have ended his career scoring the winner in that final. Or, at the very least, just plain winning it. France was a different team before and after his red card. Similarly, I don't think CR7 wanted to lose the match against Morocco, and I highly HIGHLY doubt CR7 wanted his final match for the NT to be as a sub in a game where he was unable to make the difference. He didn't storm off because that was how he truly wanted to exit... That he wanted or not is not the point, he can’t himself know what he wanted. He can only know what he got and live with it. Nothing wrong with crying IMHO. His 37 year belief that if you try the best you can, you will succeed ultimately got shattered in one instant. Guy's not used to failing so it stings more. When all's said and done people will remember the dramatic TV-friendly moment, but that's a footnote to 20 years of hard work.
Yup, it’s perfectly fine to cry. Rekkles and Faker did and they are the GOAT of their region in LoL.
Problem for Ronaldo is that he assumed politics was not that big a deal in football, except football is all about politics.
The subject has been discussed ad nauseam at this point though, there is no point discussing it further.
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Zidane carrying France in WC 2006 was an epic fairy-tale run. The sending off was such a tragic end. I'm guessing the pain of that loss in 2006 must be even worse than 2022.
Another all-time WC heartbreak is Baggio in WC 1994. His goals almost single-handedly rescued Italy during the knockouts.
Unfortunately, both their legacy in those WC will be more remembered for the heat-butt and penalty miss. Football history can be really cruel to the runners-up and tragic heroes.
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EPT
