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On April 14 2012 15:00 StarcraftMan wrote:This thread that discusses how Blizzard can solve the problem of disconnects at major tournaments was closed by GMarshal 6 days ago: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=327351¤tpage=146 day later, a member of TeamLiquid has written a program that addresses continuing a game from a replay, as a possible solution for tournament disconnects: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=328785I don't want to sound accusational, but at the risk of being banned, it appears that GMarshal is not very concerned about improving the experience of SC2 and improving the experience at SC2 tournaments. GMarshal, no offense to you - I just want a straight up answer about why my thread was closed, especially seeing that my original thread may have contributed to another TeamLiquid member making an application that directly addresses disconnects at high level tournaments within 6 days of its posting. GMarshal, do you not want to have better features in SC2 and a better experience at SC2 tournaments? Do you not care for SC2's future?
Holy shit @ most overly agressive complaint ever. I dont see how he could have been more clear with his close reason.
Literally everybody agreed that is a good thing, what did you want to happen? Teamliquid doesnt program battlenet. Great, theres a marginal chance you inspired someone to make an unofficial program of questionable legality, but that doesnt make your thread itself any more useful.
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Well the difference between the threads was clear to me.
You wanted to discuss improving battle.net. The poster who made the program actually made it(nothing to discuss, just a here is the program enjoy) and started a thread of his own.
If you inspired them you should feel great not jaded because your thread was closed nearly a week ago when you were no closer to a solution until today.
tldr:
Your thread was to go around in circles about a topic that has been beaten to death.
The thread posted earlier today/yesterday was a solution without having to go around in circles on a topic beaten like a dead horse.
+ Show Spoiler +I think it is a conspiracy, TL.net mods knew about this program but did not want you to take any credit with your thread.
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On April 14 2012 15:10 Bibbit wrote:
Holy shit @ most overly agressive complaint ever. I dont see how he could have been more clear with his close reason.
Literally everybody agreed that is a good thing, what did you want to happen? Teamliquid doesnt program battlenet. Great, theres a marginal chance you inspired someone to make an unofficial program of questionable legality, but that doesnt make your thread itself any more useful.
I'm going to disagree with you here. Continuing a match from a disconnect is a sorely needed feature in SC2. IMO, it's doesn't hurt to keep a post on this issue open rather than closed. If there can be a designated thread on balance, why not keep a thread open that discusses how to improve SC2? In this case, the original thread was productive, positive, and may have lead to the creation of the program that addresses disconnects.
Teamliquid, as far as I know, is overwhelmingly a SC2 based community. Any topics of discussion on improving SC2 is fair game, IMO.
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On April 14 2012 15:28 Kralic wrote:
Well the difference between the threads was clear to me.
You wanted to discuss improving battle.net. The poster who made the program actually made it(nothing to discuss, just a here is the program enjoy) and started a thread of his own.
If you inspired them you should feel great not jaded because your thread was closed nearly a week ago when you were no closer to a solution until today.
tldr:
Your thread was to go around in circles about a topic that has been beaten to death.
The thread posted earlier today/yesterday was a solution without having to go around in circles on a topic beaten like a dead horse.
TL would become a pretty sad place if we cannot freely discuss how to improve SC2. In this case, the original thread may have actually lead to something positive for SC2 - if indeed, the program to continue from a replay was created because of the original thread.
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On April 14 2012 16:00 xelnaga_empire wrote:Show nested quote +On April 14 2012 15:10 Bibbit wrote:
Holy shit @ most overly agressive complaint ever. I dont see how he could have been more clear with his close reason.
Literally everybody agreed that is a good thing, what did you want to happen? Teamliquid doesnt program battlenet. Great, theres a marginal chance you inspired someone to make an unofficial program of questionable legality, but that doesnt make your thread itself any more useful. I'm going to disagree with you here. Continuing a match from a disconnect is a sorely needed feature in SC2. IMO, it's doesn't hurt to keep a post on this issue open rather than closed. If there can be a designated thread on balance, why not keep a thread open that discusses how to improve SC2? In this case, the original thread was productive, positive, and may have lead to the creation of the program that addresses disconnects. Teamliquid, as far as I know, is overwhelmingly a SC2 based community. Any topics of discussion on improving SC2 is fair game, IMO.
But that's exactly the thing. Yes its a needed feature but nobody at all disagreed with that. There was no discussion.
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On April 14 2012 16:18 Bibbit wrote:
But that's exactly the thing. Yes its a needed feature but nobody at all disagreed with that. There was no discussion.
Actually, if you read the original thread, various ideas were proposed on how to solve the disconnect problem, especially after the disconnect between MKP and PartinG in the GSTL finals. There was actually a positive and productive discussion until the thread was closed.
I do not know if TheSuperCow, who wrote the program that allows you to resume from a replay, read the original thread, but if TheSuperCow did read that thread, then something postive was done for the SC2 community with the release of his program. As TheSuperCow is registered at TL, a positive discussion from TL may have lead to a utility that has benefitted the SC2 community - how is that a bad thing?
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If you want to discuss how to improve SC2, you should talk about how you can do it in a place where people who can do it (and are paid to do it) can do it and can read about it officially.
To talk about it on Team Liquid is pretending you're being proactive, but never actually bothering to do it where it matters. There are a lot of ways to improve SC2, so why not keep it in one area where the Blizzard staff members read.
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Perhaps Kwark doesn't know that blood type correlation to personality in Korea/Japan is like astrology in western world.
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That's actually exactly what he implies.
Blood type studies and beliefs in Asia however are perceived as truth not only by a minortity but by a large amount of the population afaik. There it's not only stuff for weirdos like astrology is in Europe/ the USA. It's common knowledge.
I'm not offended in this by any means but I'm sure there's quite a lot of people out there who are.
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Hello, I'm the OP of the "Who is Fenrir?" thread: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=330418
I realize that there are a lot of superfluous threads out there and that if anyone could just post whatever they liked the site would be in absolute chaos.
At the same time, I included a lot of related data/info/pics and the question I was asking is legitimate. I'm not trying to expose someone's smurf, but rather potentially bring the commuity's attention to a new top player.
Any chance the decision to close the thread could be reconsidered?
Cheers.
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United States43211 Posts
Just because Koreans are really into doesn't make them any less stupid for being so. It runs contrary to basic logic and has absolutely no scientific backing or evidence for it. Sometimes in life the guy calling you retarded isn't doing it to put you down or be mean, sometimes you might actually just be completely retarded.
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United States43211 Posts
On April 15 2012 00:43 Shana wrote:
Perhaps Kwark doesn't know that blood type correlation to personality in Korea/Japan is like astrology in western world.
The astrology guys are retarded too.
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On April 20 2012 17:48 ProteiNSheikH wrote:Hello, I'm the OP of the "Who is Fenrir?" thread: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=330418I realize that there are a lot of superfluous threads out there and that if anyone could just post whatever they liked the site would be in absolute chaos. At the same time, I included a lot of related data/info/pics and the question I was asking is legitimate. I'm not trying to expose someone's smurf, but rather potentially bring the commuity's attention to a new top player. Any chance the decision to close the thread could be reconsidered? Cheers.
We've seen tons of threads about "Who is Player X" At the end of the day, it doesn't bring out any discussion, only speculation.
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On April 20 2012 20:08 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On April 15 2012 00:43 Shana wrote:
Perhaps Kwark doesn't know that blood type correlation to personality in Korea/Japan is like astrology in western world. The astrology guys are retarded too.
What about those religious guys?
I'm merely saying that people get banned for calling others retarded. I don't think it's fair that a mod is able to call a group of people retarded for simply believing in something that has no scientific backing.
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United States43211 Posts
On April 20 2012 20:49 awu25 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 20 2012 20:08 KwarK wrote:On April 15 2012 00:43 Shana wrote:
Perhaps Kwark doesn't know that blood type correlation to personality in Korea/Japan is like astrology in western world. The astrology guys are retarded too. What about those religious guys? I'm merely saying that people get banned for calling others retarded. I don't think it's fair that a mod is able to call a group of people retarded for simply believing in something that has no scientific backing.
In future I'll attempt to phrase it as "they believe something that only someone who struggles to understand cause and effect would believe in".
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United States22154 Posts
On April 14 2012 16:27 xelnaga_empire wrote:Show nested quote +On April 14 2012 16:18 Bibbit wrote:
But that's exactly the thing. Yes its a needed feature but nobody at all disagreed with that. There was no discussion. Actually, if you read the original thread, various ideas were proposed on how to solve the disconnect problem, especially after the disconnect between MKP and PartinG in the GSTL finals. There was actually a positive and productive discussion until the thread was closed. I do not know if TheSuperCow, who wrote the program that allows you to resume from a replay, read the original thread, but if TheSuperCow did read that thread, then something postive was done for the SC2 community with the release of his program. As TheSuperCow is registered at TL, a positive discussion from TL may have lead to a utility that has benefitted the SC2 community - how is that a bad thing?
Talking never "grows ESPORTS"
Almost every single development in "ESPORTS" has been done by someone who sat down and said "I'm going to do X", not someone who sat in a discussion thread arguing about it.
"I'm going to make a website for BW fans" (Hi TL)
"I'm going to make an anti-hack system"
"I'm going to make a replay analyzer"
(these all happened, *without* discussion threads, the only "upgrade" to SC2 or BW that can arguably said to have stemmed from a discussion thread is the phoenix moving shot, and that was only because the OP was beyond brilliant, not because of any arguments within the bulk of the thread)
None of them stemmed from "discussion". Discussion threads are basically where people go to get the same emotional high they would from actually accomplishing something, without doing anything. Sometimes that's ok, but don't sell it as "wow, we could have done that if GMarshal didn't step on us!" Nothing would have come of that thread, and I'm going to continue to close threads where nothing is accomplished but circular discussion and mutual praise. Here is how the thread would have gone
OP: "Wow, we need a game resumer, blizzard sucks!"
Everyone else: "Yeah, Blizzard or someone should do something! We want this!"
Nothing good and no relevant discussion would have come of it. I doubt almost anyone on this forum understands enough about how SC2 works to make the program that TheSuperCow made, and if there are 12 of them, they would have most likely had their opinions buried in the chaff.
The TL:DR, if you make something, you are entitled to a thread, pointless discussion disguised as "helping ESPORTS" is not.
Finally, the comments about how I hate ESPORTS? I don't give a flying fig about "ESPORTS" I care about Starcraft (BW and 2) and watching the best players in the world deck it out, so anything that empowers them to do so is good in my mind. "ESPORTS" is the catchphrase of people who are blinded by the money in the scene, fools who don't care about SC, and people who want to appeal to "something greater" in order to move others. "ESPORTS" is a meaningless word to me, I do nothing for its sake. Starcraft was here before people started using that buzzword and as far as I am concerned it will remain long after "ESPORTS" is dead and buried.
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On April 20 2012 20:08 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On April 15 2012 00:43 Shana wrote:
Perhaps Kwark doesn't know that blood type correlation to personality in Korea/Japan is like astrology in western world. The astrology guys are retarded too.
Honestly this is a bit of a rediculous attitude. Astrology in certain south Asian countries is generally held in high esteem, in some cases politicians and government officians even consult their astrologers before making important political decisions. It's also an important part of the Hindu religion. You can say it's all rubbish, and from the viewpoint of physical science it is. But look at it from the viewpoint of the social sciences (sociology, psychology, poli sci) and there is a very real, quantifiable impact on our world. You may not believe in Astrology, but millions (potentially billions) of people around the world do. It affects our culture, our economy, and in some cases in South Asia it potentially even affects regional geopolitical relationships.
There are thousands of these systems of beliefe; be it belief in alien abductions, government conspiracies, new age medicine, etc. Just because there's no scientific evidence for them doesn't stop people from believing in them. And as long as large numbers of people do, these beliefs can have in some cases very large impacts on society and the world. This is very different than discussing some random guy who claims tesla coils can make black holes. Astrology has a quantifiable effect on society, though just not through the means that Astrologers claim.
Whether or not the thread was a viable topic for motivating a constructive and productive discussion is another issue entirely. But just because physical science doesn't provide evidence for the existance of something, doesn't necessarily make it an invalid topic.
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United States43211 Posts
On April 20 2012 23:51 TheToast wrote:Show nested quote +On April 20 2012 20:08 KwarK wrote:On April 15 2012 00:43 Shana wrote:
Perhaps Kwark doesn't know that blood type correlation to personality in Korea/Japan is like astrology in western world. The astrology guys are retarded too. Honestly this is a bit of a rediculous attitude. Astrology in certain south Asian countries is generally held in high esteem, in some cases politicians and government officians even consult their astrologers before making important political decisions. It's also an important part of the Hindu religion. You can say it's all rubbish, and from the viewpoint of physical science it is. But look at it from the viewpoint of the social sciences (sociology, psychology, poli sci) and there is a very real, quantifiable impact on our world. You may not believe in Astrology, but millions (potentially billions) of people around the world do. It affects our culture, our economy, and in some cases in South Asia it potentially even affects regional geopolitical relationships. There are thousands of these systems of beliefe; be it belief in alien abductions, government conspiracies, new age medicine, etc. Just because there's no scientific evidence for them doesn't stop people from believing in them. And as long as large numbers of people do, these beliefs can have in some cases very large impacts on society and the world. This is very different than discussing some random guy who claims tesla coils can make black holes. Astrology has a quantifiable effect on society, though just not through the means that Astrologers claim. Whether or not the thread was a viable topic for motivating a constructive and productive discussion is another issue entirely. But just because physical science doesn't provide evidence for the existance of something, doesn't necessarily make it an invalid topic.
While people can and do believe whatever they like that is not a structure we can really debate on teamliquid. Astrology is not only irrational and illogical but has absolutely no evidence backing it up. There is absolutely no possibility for a debate in which denial of evidence is the foundation for one side of the argument, the entire subject has no value. If you were to make a topic discussing the impact of false beliefs upon society with links to articles discussing it, background information on some of those beliefs such as blood types and astrology, evidence of when it's been significant and the like then that'd be a really interesting topic and I'd totally get behind that. Furthermore if people came in and dismissed the entire sociological aspect of it and just went "derp, no evidence" then I'd temp them for it. But that's not the topic we're talking about here, the topic I closed was "does your blood type match up to these vague applying to everyone definitions". It had no value because there's no correlation between blood type and personality.
The difference between the value of the two approaches to the subject is like the difference between "does God exist?" and "what is the impact and value of a secular government in a predominantly homogeneous religious society, discuss within, here are some relevant articles and thoughts on the matter".
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Is there any plan on preventing one liner threads for cool/big news? I do think it is important for people to see such news, but it just sets such a horrible example for other people when they see a one liner thread with 20+ pages.
Ex:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=332673
A similar thread was closed because it was a duplicate but also because it was a contentless thread:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=332795#3
I'm hoping in the future we can try to deter people from rushing to post something cool with one line and maybe take the time to post some pictures and explain what the thread should be discussing
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EPT
