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Aquanim
Australia2849 Posts
I'm aware some fraction of the people defending him satisfy these criteria. Just putting it out there. Back when I was a lurker I thought GreenHorizons was an ok bloke too. I don't know or really care what the immediate circumstances leading to the ban were. They could well appear unfair or not even worth a modaction at all. It isn't really relevant, since he's deserved a perm ban for years - this is just the mods finally pulling the trigger. | ||
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Deleted User 3420
24492 Posts
On February 09 2019 07:43 Jealous wrote: So you're saying that a guy who was recently permanently banned is messaging you, the poster who has shown the most initiative in questioning his ban, evidence that casts him in a positive light? Color me surprised. Wtf is this? Im willing to provide actual evidence for my claims, and extending an offer to anyone to provide counterevidence. I am saying "please, please enlighten me by showing me ACTUAL EVIDENCE" as opposed to just a personal opinion which could be based on literally anything. I am not saying I *know everything* about his behavior, or that he did or did not do this or that. I am saying, he is the only person who has shown me PMs, and in them so far every accuser is the one acting shittier between the two of them. You know why I am bothering to do this? Because I think his treatment was morally wrong, and I care about that. And, apparently, he actually can't PM anyone other than me because by technicality I am staff according to the website(which is something I like, so please don't take it away admins. I think meat or someone made it that way because im in TL). | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
You’re staff. Go ask the mod team. I’m sure they will tell you. | ||
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Deleted User 3420
24492 Posts
Whether or not you care if it's morally wrong is not my concern, I don't decide what other people care about. I can make a recommendation if you want but I had no intention to do that. Whether or not you put effort into anything you do is also up to you, but I think it says a lot if you openly state that you aren't putting effort into forming your opinions or presenting your arguments. Again, whether or not you want to change your mind is up to you. I am not sure what you are getting at because it seems like your only possible intention in posting these questions is to stifle dissent. | ||
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Sermokala
United States13738 Posts
If I ever had to describe him to someone it would be that to any problem he saw he would want to make it ten thousand times worse. Nothing he ever proposed or described would make anything better and yet he would refuse to see this. Being morally correct is perfectly acceptable until it becomes the only thing you are willing to consider. He would constantly attack anyone who questioned him until they either lost interest or entire days worth of conversations would be devoted to his battles where nothing good happened. Hes the type of person who knows he can't have a reasonable argument and yet doesn't see this as an issue in the slightest. Your idea of p6 being beligerent is laughable knowing how GH defined that for everyone in the thread. | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
I also feel my opinion on if GH is banned or not is shared by many people in this thread. I doubt folks care a whole lot either way, but they understand why it happened. No one is invested in building a case for the ban, because in the end it doesn’t matter. And you are right, it’s an open discussion. So when someone asks for receipts to justify my personal opinion to them, I’m all set. That isn’t a debate I’m intrested in engaging with. | ||
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Aquanim
Australia2849 Posts
On February 09 2019 09:38 travis wrote:... but I think it says a lot if you openly state that you aren't putting effort into forming your opinions or presenting your arguments. . What Plansix actually said was he didn't feel the need to put effort into justifying his opinion to you. I'll take belligerent over dishonest here. | ||
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xM(Z
Romania5276 Posts
What <+ Show Spoiler + Plansi | ||
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opisska
Poland8852 Posts
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xM(Z
Romania5276 Posts
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Acrofales
Spain17848 Posts
On February 09 2019 18:38 xM(Z wrote: yes he is and no it's not imo. you can't plead the 5th in civil cases. This isn't a court case... | ||
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Aquanim
Australia2849 Posts
On February 09 2019 17:26 xM(Z wrote: but that's also something that weighted on mods decision when they made the call to ban GH, no effort opinions like those; the straws that broke the camel back. I don't even think I agree with the premise that these are "no-effort opinions": + Show Spoiler + On February 07 2019 23:12 Plansix wrote: I know that he and the mod team had a lot of discussions via PM. But he has always responded poorly any sort of moderation. He necroed a blog from 2009 about racism and got 2 day ban. After than ban ended, he did the exact same thing to another thread that got locked. And then came to feedback asking why it got locked. It just seemed like he was very invested in picking fights if he we ever told he couldn’t do exactly what he wanted. On February 09 2019 06:40 Plansix wrote: I can confirm that GH was insufferable in his PMs. To the point where I told him to stop PMing me. He failed that simple request a few times too. He would also become obsessed with specific posters and having them admit they were wrong. I dealt with that as well. But even if they did admit a mistake, it was not enough. You had to not only admit you were wrong, but you allowed yourself to be deceived by your neoliberal bias. And even then he would assume you were not sincere. I get that folks don’t think a forum vet should be banned over a PM disagreement. But some people don’t respect boundaries or can’t read the room. They fight and engage until they get what they want, even if the person on the other side specifically asks to be left alone. GH was one of those people. And that is one of the many reasons he wanted to be able to moderate his own politics blog. Plansix was referring to the effort of actually going and finding links and citations from umpteen years of thread and PMs. Which nobody else in this thread has done either. No, getting GreenHorizons to send you stuff from his carefully curated library of grievances doesn't count as effort of that kind. To say that Plansix didn't put effort into forming his opinions when he's been conversing with GreenHorizons fairly regularly for over five years is pretty insulting. | ||
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Jealous
10098 Posts
On February 09 2019 17:26 xM(Z wrote: but that's also something that weighted on mods decision when they made the call to ban GH, no effort opinions like those; the straws that broke the camel back. It always fascinates me when an online debate leads to the awakening of someone's inner power of telepathy. | ||
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Jockmcplop
United Kingdom9345 Posts
Its up to the mods how much of a pain in the arse someone is allowed to be i suppose. | ||
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Godwrath
Spain10109 Posts
On February 08 2019 01:32 ahswtini wrote: https://www.teamliquid.net/forum/tl-community/275302-ask-tl-staff-anything?page=632#12630 (just start reading from there) i guess he wasn't really complaining, but clearly felt he would prefer to talk to a black mod I guess we read completely different things if that was your conclussion. He gave the reasons why, and they didn't sound unreasonable. | ||
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Dangermousecatdog
United Kingdom7084 Posts
On February 09 2019 06:53 travis wrote: wanna post such a PM chain then? Right now what I am being presented with is people making claims about him (not just the people in this thread), and then him defending himself by sending me the actual PM chains, which generally seem to make him look like the more reasonable person, at least in my opinion. He messaged me after your post with a PM chain between him and you, and between the two of you, he looked much more civil. Since it's private, I am not posting it. But if you say it's cool, I'll post it and then other users can decide for themselves who's tone and behavior is more inappropriate. Hey, if you want to post the PM's that's up to you. GH can if he wants to, if banned posters can post in the website feeback forum. Hey, maybe I could be considered to be the uncivil one, but then again, you got to wonder; if I was sending "fuck off" to GH who initiated the PMs, and everytime he PM me and he keeps PM me back, who's behaviour is more inappropriate? Actually now that I think about it, GH was probably fishing for something to try to get me banned when he sent those PMs, which was why he was so weirdly persistent. It all makes sense now. I just thought he was trying to preserve his own hurt feelings to losing to an internet argument to someone who doesn't care. | ||
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xM(Z
Romania5276 Posts
this here is about white knighting and taking sides and going up on snitches lists and condescending holier than thou posts and ... etcetcetc Edit: i mean look @Aquanim post; you can't reply to it. it's known, or it should've be known to him since he commented, that p6 was banned a few times for being an asshole to other posters; and that's on a liberal forum whilst being a liberal ... he became more diplomatic in his approaches as of lately, but he hasn't changed. | ||
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Acrofales
Spain17848 Posts
On February 10 2019 05:54 xM(Z wrote: correct; the trial/hearing was done in absentia and the sentence passed. GG this here is about white knighting and taking sides and going up on snitches lists and condescending holier than thou posts and ... etcetcetc Edit: i mean look @Aquanim post; you can't reply to it. it's known, or it should've be known to him since he commented, that p6 was banned a few times for being an asshole to other posters; and that's on a liberal forum whilst being a liberal ... he became more diplomatic in his approaches as of lately, but he hasn't changed. I don't really know what any of that has to do with it. But arguing with you almost always takes us down the rabbit hole of non sequiturs and whataboutisms, so I'll just stay out of this. I don't know enough to say his ban wasn't justified. With what I know about GH, I am not surprised he was, eventually, after deliberation, perm banned. I think everybody who argued with him admired him, but also found it a right pain in the ass to disagree with him on anything. Having to constantly moderate those discussions must be exhausting. Am I sad he eventually got permed? Yeah. Do I feel it's unjust? No clue. I'll give the mods the benefit of the doubt. They don't often get this kinda call wrong. | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On February 10 2019 05:54 xM(Z wrote: correct; the trial/hearing was done in absentia and the sentence passed. GG this here is about white knighting and taking sides and going up on snitches lists and condescending holier than thou posts and ... etcetcetc Edit: i mean look @Aquanim post; you can't reply to it. it's known, or it should've be known to him since he commented, that p6 was banned a few times for being an asshole to other posters; and that's on a liberal forum whilst being a liberal ... he became more diplomatic in his approaches as of lately, but he hasn't changed. Yeah. I’m honest about it too. When I’m an asshole, I do it on purpose. I just choose not to be an asshole of late. And I don’t know what the rest of that nonsense is your are rambling about is. | ||
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Dangermousecatdog
United Kingdom7084 Posts
On February 10 2019 06:18 Acrofales wrote:I think everybody who argued with him admired him, Hah, no. | ||
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