US Politics Feedback Thread - Page 121

On April 13 2018 21:10 Grumbels wrote:

The conservative understanding of politics implies a willingness to play dirty. If you have a renegade figure such as Comey, who used to be a reliable bureaucrat presiding over a right wing law enforcement policy, but who was misfortunate enough to become a political liability, then the answer is clear. You immediately turn on that person, distance yourself from them, and covertly try to destroy them. It's a mercenary sort of mindset, which I think is particularly common to right-wing movements, but which is especially noticeable for being entirely absent within the liberal establishment. This otherwise pleasant characteristic has a downside, as liberals tend to tolerate and rehabilitate conservatives at an alarming rate, constantly insisting on compromise and understanding with the same figures that earlier plotted to lead the country into right-wing misery and eternal war.

Personally I can hardly stand it for David Frum or Bill Kristol to be part of the #resistance, or for Paul Ryan to be rehabilitated as a responsible politician who tried, but failed, to have Trump follow proper procedure.

On April 13 2018 23:19 bo1b wrote:
I think there are plenty of people who honestly feel superior one way or another based on their political leanings, take a look at the latest Grumbles post on conservatives and liberals, I'll quote for posterity:



How can anyone have a discussion on anything if they legitimately believe something like this? I just don't understand why posts like these are allowed by moderation when they add literally nothing to the discussion. Fair enough ban posters who go off on tangents of "what about killary!?" but at least have the decency to take out the trash on the left side of politics as well.

On April 12 2018 21:16 Excludos wrote:
I think a lot of the reasons we have what might be conceived as a "lefty echo chamber" right now is due to this being one of the few times in history where one side is just blatantly wrong (Ok, ok. I understand there's always two sides in politics, but I don't think this is a wholly unreasonable view to hold atm). Most people who would normally consider themselves "right" does not support what the current right side is doing in the US.

And sure, since this is a gaming forum with a younger audience (Younger people tend to lean more left than older), there is always going to be a bit of left leaning here. But once the current administration leaves office (And after whatever reform which is inevitably going to happen afterwards), it should even out a little bit once the usual right siders has a reasonable party to support again.

On April 13 2018 23:19 bo1b wrote:
I think there are plenty of people who honestly feel superior one way or another based on their political leanings, take a look at the latest Grumbles post on conservatives and liberals, I'll quote for posterity:



How can anyone have a discussion on anything if they legitimately believe something like this? I just don't understand why posts like these are allowed by moderation when they add literally nothing to the discussion. Fair enough ban posters who go off on tangents of "what about killary!?" but at least have the decency to take out the trash on the left side of politics as well.

On April 14 2018 00:09 zlefin wrote:


yes, many people do feel suprioer one way or another. what about it? especially in the current situation, wherein one side really is better than the other.

the underlying post you refer to is indeed hyperbolic and excessive; but that doesn't mean it's impossible to have a discussion on ANYTHING with such a person. that's being hyperbolic yourself. as to moderation's choices; I can't speak to that as I am not them.

The liberal understanding of politics is to be smug, self serving and obsequies. If you have a renegade figure such as Bernie, who has proven to have somewhat radical ideals which resonate with large swathes of the population, but was unfortunate enough to run against the preferred candidate, then the answer is clear. You immediately throw all support behind the mainstream politician, do everything but rig the nomination, and do everything to make it as preordained as possible that Hillary wins instead. It's a hive mind mindset which I find almost entirely absent in right wing politics. This otherwise pleasant characteristic has a downside, as conservatives are good at picking up figureheads to the cause, constantly using left leaning figures as champions against the party they represented.

iamthedave wrote:
I think there's a degree of truth to the idea that generalisations work better when talking about the right than the left.

One of the great strengths of right wing politics is that people on that political spectrum seem to agree with each other on a broad swath of ideas and come together behind their guys when it matters. See: Trump. A looooooot of people swallowed personal misgivings in the sake of political identity.

On April 14 2018 00:59 bo1b wrote:
I think an argument for the superiority of something which is predicated on the reader agreeing before hand that that something is in fact superior is not much of an argument, you can see this reflected in just about every proof for God that exists.

To be clear I understand that feeling superior one way or another is human nature, but I just do not see the purpose in coming into a discussion to drop a paragraph of condescension and nothing else.

On April 14 2018 01:13 Plansix wrote:
It wouldn’t be as big of a deal if people didn’t see an attack on conservative politicians as a personal attack on them. The same with progressive, centrists and the rest. It is the most toxic part of identity politics, when people their political leaning as a core part of their identity. And see any criticism of that political viewpoint as a personal attack.

On April 14 2018 01:18 Danglars wrote:


Like bo1b was saying. My side is diverse and argues/thinks, and is thus not easily generalizable, but generalizations work just fine on your side!

Ugh.

On April 14 2018 01:37 Plansix wrote:

You cut out the majority of his post where he makes his point. The people who post in this thread also read the politics thread, so there was no way we would miss that....

On April 14 2018 01:30 bo1b wrote:

There is a fine line though, surely you'd agree? Particularly when conservative's are routinely accused of things liberals find heinous, such as racism, sexism etc.

On April 14 2018 01:46 Plansix wrote:

I understand the feeling of prosecution that a lot of conservatives feel and I try to be sympathetic. But in contrast they have held power in government for 8 years and control the majority of state legislatures. They have their own media groups and Fox News, which is not what I would call “nice” to liberals or progressives. So at times it is hard to buy into the feeling of persecution when that same empathy is not reciprocated to, say for instance, blacks complaining about racism. It becomes hard to not see it as a tactic used by some to blunt critique of real racist and sexists within conservatism. Or as something more caustic.

But again, that is a meta issue and not your fault. I understand that conservatives don’t see themselves reflected in culture. But I also think that a lot of people, like racial minorities, LGBT folks and others, feel excluded from conservatism. There doesn’t seem to be lot of room for them in the conservative movement. But that movement holds a lot of political power, even if it has little cultural influence at large.

On April 14 2018 01:51 bo1b wrote:

Don't get me wrong, I find fox news absolutely detestable, along with pretty much every single conservative politician in power right now (zlefin, if there was something I would argue is clearly superior right now in politics between the two parties, it is that the current elected politicians in the RNC are revolting), I just don't think it gives people carte blanch to make sweeping generalizations. There are people who voted for Trump I presume based on good faith not on excluding undesirables.

I just saw your edit as I posted this, which somewhat ties into what I was posting to Kollin yesterday, in that most people aren't part of the alt right nor the antifa groups, yet for whatever reason insist on categorizing the other as if they were, where purity tests absolutely exist.