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Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
April 13 2018 17:42 GMT
#2421
The echo chamber isn’t entirely of our making, but people should try to get beyond it. But I also think people should avoid bringing that left/right grievance to the thread. If conservative law makers are at fault, people should keep it specific to those law makers. If the democratic leadership is stupid, don’t blame people who vote democrat in state elections. Don’t call the thread an echo chamber because no one has posted a conservative article in 2 days.

But mostly we all need to above getting back on our bullshit. Don’t bite at the first angry post about liberals/conservatives. Wait to see if the poster was just grumpy or if they are just on an over generalizating rant.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
bo1b
Profile Blog Joined August 2012
Australia12814 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-04-13 17:48:17
April 13 2018 17:47 GMT
#2422
While I am certainly not a saint, particularly in the eyes of tl moderating staff, I don't think it's a leftwing echo chamber. I do think that left leaning posts get away with a bit more but that's the nature of things.

I agree with what you said though.

+ Show Spoiler +
yuck
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
April 13 2018 18:04 GMT
#2423
Well I’m of the opposite opinion until recently. I felt the right leaning posters got away with quite a bit. So maybe it’s all inperspective.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
brian
Profile Blog Joined August 2004
United States9642 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-04-13 19:08:59
April 13 2018 19:07 GMT
#2424
i’m particularly interested in the idea of being offended by generalizations against conservatives based on the acts of the conservative representation in government. especially in the case where you think a lot of the republican representation is shit.

shouldn’t instead you stop identifying as conservative? i’d suggest ‘or change the representation,’ but clearly there is a base there voting for them, and i guess they disagree with you(and me, for that matter, don’t know if that needed mentioning but to be safe,) so i’m still left with only the former.
bo1b
Profile Blog Joined August 2012
Australia12814 Posts
April 13 2018 19:09 GMT
#2425
I'm not conservative, I'm not offended by generalizations against them either. I think they're both pointless and counter productive though. This goes the other way as well of course.
brian
Profile Blog Joined August 2004
United States9642 Posts
April 13 2018 19:11 GMT
#2426
ah, my mistake. i drastically misunderstood.
Sermokala
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States14174 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-04-13 19:25:23
April 13 2018 19:24 GMT
#2427
On April 14 2018 04:07 brian wrote:
i’m particularly interested in the idea of being offended by generalizations against conservatives based on the acts of the conservative representation in government. especially in the case where you think a lot of the republican representation is shit.

shouldn’t instead you stop identifying as conservative? i’d suggest ‘or change the representation,’ but clearly there is a base there voting for them, and i guess they disagree with you(and me, for that matter, don’t know if that needed mentioning but to be safe,) so i’m still left with only the former.

Its because of the hate. The way people talk about trump and the republican party is entirely through the lenses of hate. I'm not the republican party or trump but you are confused why leaping hate on me and what I believe is going to lead to anything good? I don't think you're dumb enough to believe that preaching hate is going to change anything so I can only believe that you're preaching hate against me because you enjoy it. Just look at kwark. He went from a snarky asshole to just a hateful asshole. I get it that trump is really bad and you don't like the republican party but I'm not them and I don't deserve your hate. Trump doesn't justify your hate. Republicans don't deserve your hate. Conservatives aren't a hive mind no matter how little you associate with them.
A wise man will say that he knows nothing. We're gona party like its 2752 Hail Dark Brandon
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
April 13 2018 19:45 GMT
#2428
I don’t think anyone here is really hateful towards you specifically. But I could be wrong.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
xDaunt
Profile Joined March 2010
United States17988 Posts
April 13 2018 19:52 GMT
#2429
On April 14 2018 04:24 Sermokala wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 14 2018 04:07 brian wrote:
i’m particularly interested in the idea of being offended by generalizations against conservatives based on the acts of the conservative representation in government. especially in the case where you think a lot of the republican representation is shit.

shouldn’t instead you stop identifying as conservative? i’d suggest ‘or change the representation,’ but clearly there is a base there voting for them, and i guess they disagree with you(and me, for that matter, don’t know if that needed mentioning but to be safe,) so i’m still left with only the former.

Its because of the hate. The way people talk about trump and the republican party is entirely through the lenses of hate. I'm not the republican party or trump but you are confused why leaping hate on me and what I believe is going to lead to anything good? I don't think you're dumb enough to believe that preaching hate is going to change anything so I can only believe that you're preaching hate against me because you enjoy it. Just look at kwark. He went from a snarky asshole to just a hateful asshole. I get it that trump is really bad and you don't like the republican party but I'm not them and I don't deserve your hate. Trump doesn't justify your hate. Republicans don't deserve your hate. Conservatives aren't a hive mind no matter how little you associate with them.

This is what happens when the acting presumption from the Left that everyone on the other side is racist, sexist, homophobic, or otherwise bigoted. The true cost of identity politics is finally becoming apparent.
Danglars
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States12133 Posts
April 13 2018 19:57 GMT
#2430
It's cost the debates I previously enjoyed in the Bush era and the Obama era. It changed from asking me "Why?" to asking "How Could You?" And then the thread dives, moderation is overwhelmed, and it's just partisan mud slinging from tweet to next crisis.
Great armies come from happy zealots, and happy zealots come from California!
TL+ Member
zlefin
Profile Blog Joined October 2012
United States7689 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-04-13 20:19:29
April 13 2018 20:15 GMT
#2431
On April 14 2018 04:24 Sermokala wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 14 2018 04:07 brian wrote:
i’m particularly interested in the idea of being offended by generalizations against conservatives based on the acts of the conservative representation in government. especially in the case where you think a lot of the republican representation is shit.

shouldn’t instead you stop identifying as conservative? i’d suggest ‘or change the representation,’ but clearly there is a base there voting for them, and i guess they disagree with you(and me, for that matter, don’t know if that needed mentioning but to be safe,) so i’m still left with only the former.

Its because of the hate. The way people talk about trump and the republican party is entirely through the lenses of hate. I'm not the republican party or trump but you are confused why leaping hate on me and what I believe is going to lead to anything good? I don't think you're dumb enough to believe that preaching hate is going to change anything so I can only believe that you're preaching hate against me because you enjoy it. Just look at kwark. He went from a snarky asshole to just a hateful asshole. I get it that trump is really bad and you don't like the republican party but I'm not them and I don't deserve your hate. Trump doesn't justify your hate. Republicans don't deserve your hate. Conservatives aren't a hive mind no matter how little you associate with them.


question: when you say "trump doesn't justify your hate" do you mean "trump doesn't justify hatred directed toward you (sermokala)?"
basically, i'm not sure which hate you're referring to. because trump's actions would seem to justify hatred toward trump himself.

and the statement "republicans don' deserve your hate" seems odd; because a lot of the republican leadership/politicians at least, rather does seem to deserve being hated.
I agree we shouldn't be lumping you all together though, as there's many different factions. and we shouldn't ascribe fault to all for the actions that only some did. (but ascribing fault for those that actually supported the bad actions/actors seems to be more reasonable)
Great read: http://shorensteincenter.org/news-coverage-2016-general-election/ great book on democracy: http://press.princeton.edu/titles/10671.html zlefin is grumpier due to long term illness. Ignoring some users.
Sermokala
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States14174 Posts
April 13 2018 20:48 GMT
#2432
You didn't dispute anything in that post if anything you supported it fully so I don't know how to respond. You can't justify hate no matter who's it against. Once one group is okay to hate then its a simple path to hating more groups and hate is anathema to anything good in this world.
A wise man will say that he knows nothing. We're gona party like its 2752 Hail Dark Brandon
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
April 13 2018 20:58 GMT
#2433
We are all guilty of some high level bullshit. I can shit post with the best of them. But do you have specific examples of you being attacked? Or is this more about over generalization about conservatives?
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
zlefin
Profile Blog Joined October 2012
United States7689 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-04-13 21:23:33
April 13 2018 21:14 GMT
#2434
On April 14 2018 05:48 Sermokala wrote:
You didn't dispute anything in that post if anything you supported it fully so I don't know how to respond. You can't justify hate no matter who's it against. Once one group is okay to hate then its a simple path to hating more groups and hate is anathema to anything good in this world.

ok;
I'm just a bit surprised you're against hating the likes of hitler and nazis. most people would find it acceptable to hate hitler, but there are indeed some who oppose hate in all its forms, didn't know you were among them.

[the below question could be moved elsewhere as it's less apropos to the feedback, shall we move it to the main thread?]
I assume this means you also oppose the republican party as well it has quite a bit of hate itself?
(iirc you were republican at one point, forget where you are now in regards to them)
Great read: http://shorensteincenter.org/news-coverage-2016-general-election/ great book on democracy: http://press.princeton.edu/titles/10671.html zlefin is grumpier due to long term illness. Ignoring some users.
Gorsameth
Profile Joined April 2010
Netherlands22490 Posts
April 13 2018 21:16 GMT
#2435
Do we have to have this conversation in website feedback?
Do we need to have it at all?
It ignores such insignificant forces as time, entropy, and death
zlefin
Profile Blog Joined October 2012
United States7689 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-04-13 21:22:26
April 13 2018 21:20 GMT
#2436
On April 14 2018 06:16 Gorsameth wrote:
Do we have to have this conversation in website feedback?
Do we need to have it at all?

I'm fine with moving it elsewhere; I was simply replying in the thread it was in seeking clarification. but I could move my question part to another thread, as that one is less pertinent to the feedback section. shall we move your response and/or my question to another thread sermo?
Great read: http://shorensteincenter.org/news-coverage-2016-general-election/ great book on democracy: http://press.princeton.edu/titles/10671.html zlefin is grumpier due to long term illness. Ignoring some users.
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
April 13 2018 21:20 GMT
#2437
On April 14 2018 06:16 Gorsameth wrote:
Do we have to have this conversation in website feedback?
Do we need to have it at all?

Where else do we have it? Some conservative posters they are being abused by the thread, we should at least discuss it.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
Gorsameth
Profile Joined April 2010
Netherlands22490 Posts
April 13 2018 21:28 GMT
#2438
On April 14 2018 06:20 Plansix wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 14 2018 06:16 Gorsameth wrote:
Do we have to have this conversation in website feedback?
Do we need to have it at all?

Where else do we have it? Some conservative posters they are being abused by the thread, we should at least discuss it.
It started as that and it could be a good discussion.
Now were back to trying to call others nazi's sympathizers and that's never going to go anywhere productive.
It ignores such insignificant forces as time, entropy, and death
zlefin
Profile Blog Joined October 2012
United States7689 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-04-13 21:30:35
April 13 2018 21:29 GMT
#2439
On April 14 2018 06:28 Gorsameth wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 14 2018 06:20 Plansix wrote:
On April 14 2018 06:16 Gorsameth wrote:
Do we have to have this conversation in website feedback?
Do we need to have it at all?

Where else do we have it? Some conservative posters they are being abused by the thread, we should at least discuss it.
It started as that and it could be a good discussion.
Now were back to trying to call others nazi's sympathizers and that's never going to go anywhere productive.

who's trying to do that? that's not what I said at all, quite clearly, so not sure how you got that if it was from what I said.
Great read: http://shorensteincenter.org/news-coverage-2016-general-election/ great book on democracy: http://press.princeton.edu/titles/10671.html zlefin is grumpier due to long term illness. Ignoring some users.
Gorsameth
Profile Joined April 2010
Netherlands22490 Posts
April 13 2018 21:39 GMT
#2440
On April 14 2018 06:29 zlefin wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 14 2018 06:28 Gorsameth wrote:
On April 14 2018 06:20 Plansix wrote:
On April 14 2018 06:16 Gorsameth wrote:
Do we have to have this conversation in website feedback?
Do we need to have it at all?

Where else do we have it? Some conservative posters they are being abused by the thread, we should at least discuss it.
It started as that and it could be a good discussion.
Now were back to trying to call others nazi's sympathizers and that's never going to go anywhere productive.

who's trying to do that? that's not what I said at all, quite clearly, so not sure how you got that if it was from what I said.
Really?
Right, you always take a conversation from "lets not hate on eachother" to "Gee don't you hate nazi's, everyone hates nazi's".
Come on, you've discussed on the internet before. You know better then this.
It ignores such insignificant forces as time, entropy, and death
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