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Discussion about Mod Notes is no longer acceptable in this thread. -micronesia (added post #9) |
On September 10 2012 00:14 Gene wrote:
trying to inject bureaucracy into moderation by saying that any single moderators judgement is questionable
boo hiss
Agreed.
This happens so infrequently that I don't think it's necessary. Sure, that discussion may have been unnecessarily skewed because of ETT's note, but that's not a huge deal and ETT had good intentions. Feedback threads with discussion like this are probably the best remedy.
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United States8476 Posts
On September 09 2012 21:33 Praetorial wrote:
No.
I meant that before a mod puts up a mod note, it should be checked by another mod through internal discussion before being put up, otherwise it may constrict discussion and/or result in silly warnings and bans, in addition to justified warnings and bans.
This is just too much for every single mod note. We already have enough reports to go through as it is.
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Canada11363 Posts
Thing is, I actually tried that once. But the thread was quickly getting out of control and no-one answered whether my note was sufficient. So in the end I slapped it on anyways and continued moderating. There's no guarantee that mods will be following the same thread concurrently when there are so many threads.
I suspect on certain controversial threads, it has happened. But it's too difficult a thing to say that every mod note needs to be approved. Having said that, there have been times when mod notes have been too much, but then it's more an internal discussion on how frame it in the future.
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Zurich15348 Posts
This does actually happen regularly. Threads have public and non public notes. Mods often use the non public ones for discussion on what to do with a thread / what kind of public note to put on it. It's not always possible, but it does happen.
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Milkbag was just banned by EvilTeletubby.
That account was created on 2012-03-15 13:39:40 and had 3 posts.
Reason: Excessive hostility.
So, he was banned in the Ailuj thread. He wasn't particularly hostile, in fact he was more reasoned and measured than many on both sides of the argument. Are people just getting banned now for having a different opinion than a Mod?
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Yes im not sure any other way to try and appeal this ban other than make another account since I cannot post or PM anyone so I wanted to have a chance of getting this ban removed hopefully, In my mind I wasn't excessively hostile or hostile at all, if anything the post I replied to was even more hostile than mine but he didn't get banned? And so many more comments were worse than mine and 99% recieved temp bans?
Why was this a permanent ban from a mod who was posting in the same thread who has a different opinion than me?
This was my comment which got me permabanned for EXCESSIVE hostility
"It literally takes 2 minutes to login and see that information on battlenet with less than 5 clicks of a mouse, such effort. I appreciate your detailed discussion on this ongoing topic."
User was banned for this post.
Milkbag was just banned by EvilTeletubby.
That account was created on 2012-03-15 13:39:40 and had 3 posts.
Reason: Excessive hostility.
I did not bash this user, I did not insult or call him names and I tried to make a serious discussion on this topic and now im banned? This seems excessive to me and if there is no way to appeal this I'm not sure why I've supported team liquid through TSL or their store if this is the way you get treated for trying to discuss topics in the forums.
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Canada11363 Posts
No they are not, but new users are on a much shorter leash. If you already bashing people within your first couple posts, you're very likely to get "Inconsiderate newb, try harder on your next account." or in this case "excessive hostility."
Right in the 10 Commandments
Remember: we ban little kids all the time because they sign on thinking they can say and do whatever they want to whomever they want right from the get-go - just like they're used to doing at other sites. That attitude won't work here. That's a promise.
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On September 10 2012 15:10 Falling wrote:No they are not, but new users are on a much shorter leash. If you already bashing people within your first couple posts, you're very likely to get "Inconsiderate newb, try harder on your next account." or in this case "excessive hostility." Right in the 10 Commandments Show nested quote +Remember: we ban little kids all the time because they sign on thinking they can say and do whatever they want to whomever they want right from the get-go - just like they're used to doing at other sites. That attitude won't work here. That's a promise.
Absolutely. But reading the thread, you'll see that in no way was he ever excessively hostile. His post previous to the one that got him banned also was fairly normal, and simply had some actual fact checking that others had ignored. And the fact that it was a perma ban out of nowhere, as opposed to a temp ban or a warning, well, it really just feels like he was banned because the mod disagreed. I know it may not have been the reason, but that's sure how it looks.
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I'm not sure why ppl here want more accountability on mod notes - mod notes are there when discussion gets heated and the mod wants a stop to the off-topic discussion. Ppl think that being a mod is a paid position, but it's just run by volunteers - why give them more work? If you volunteer to be a mod, then you can implement something like this yourself.
There's a time/place to have discussions - you don't come into a team thread announcement to bash a player. If you feel so strongly about it, there are many avenues to do so.
About Milkbags ban, from the balance of evidence, it definitely looks excessive. But don't forget that whilst his post was reasoned and logical, it went against the mod note of no more off-topic discussion. Anyways, it is my feeling that if the issue was not as sensitive, then he would've just been temp banned.
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I do think that many comments in that thread were really freaken horrible, but milkbag didn't seem hostile at all.
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if anyone should be banned it should be Ailuj. Imho she was the one who started all this hostility by getting defensive and calling other users "butt-hurt" because of what she might call "under appreciated sarcasm" (which btw is a hilarious phrase).
and what's the problem with bringing into question someones dedication when they have played less than 10 games in a 2 month period? I think all Milkbag was trying to do was get a better understanding of her situation. He wasn't saying she had no passion or dedication, he just wanted to bring up the fact that according to her sc2 account she hardly plays this game at all. It could very well be that Ailuj takes this game very seriously but plays all her games on an alt. If that's the case then all Ailuj would have to do is show documentation of all the games she played and then it would be settled, instead of banning people for "hostility" or "under appreciated sarcasm" (lol that phrase again)
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Is there a Mod who can defend the fact that he was perma-banned as opposed to temp banned? Especially given that there are/were way worse posts in that thread which resulted in mere warnings or temp bans.
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United States42983 Posts
On September 10 2012 09:41 zatic wrote:
This does actually happen regularly. Threads have public and non public notes. Mods often use the non public ones for discussion on what to do with a thread / what kind of public note to put on it. It's not always possible, but it does happen.
This.
If what you want is discussion between mods about how a topic is moderated then I can assure you that systems are in place for that. The non public notes allow mods to give their thoughts and reasoning for their actions and allow other mods to comment upon that or disagree. It's not a perfect system because mods don't always overlap on topics and when they do they don't always see the need to impose their own style of moderation when another mod is taking care of it but for the larger topics they are used.
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On September 10 2012 21:37 Zennith wrote:
Is there a Mod who can defend the fact that he was perma-banned as opposed to temp banned? Especially given that there are/were way worse posts in that thread which resulted in mere warnings or temp bans.
I'm assuming this is going to continue to be ignored? I'd like someone to at least address the substance of the issue without the stigma of "lol new account bro".
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United States42983 Posts
On September 11 2012 02:07 Taidanii wrote:Show nested quote +On September 10 2012 21:37 Zennith wrote:
Is there a Mod who can defend the fact that he was perma-banned as opposed to temp banned? Especially given that there are/were way worse posts in that thread which resulted in mere warnings or temp bans. I'm assuming this is going to continue to be ignored? I'd like someone to at least address the substance of the issue without the stigma of "lol new account bro".
Wasn't my ban and I wouldn't like to put words in ETT's mouth. It's not being ignored.
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EPT
