I didn't catch it in time to see the original. I think flamewheel can see this sort of thing so I'll ask him. Because this is a noobies game I'll let you go with just a warning but the next time ANYONE does this they die, no exceptions. You've been warned
I already reported it and the mod told me it was a typo fix.
Lets get one thing clear here - do not Report anything to TL mods that isn't a direct violation of the TL Commandments (excluding spam - spam is legal here). We police ourselves, and only call in the authorities when we need them. Report to the Mod of your game, or Qatol if you have a problem with Mod.
This. We self moderate. For the love of god, don't use the report button in this subforum.
qft -___________-
I quote this to point of that redFF's only post in the game is just this one-liner spam. Perhaps he is too busy in his other mafia game to contribute something more useful to his post, but then he should have waited until he had more time to post.
On May 29 2011 06:47 Meapak_Ziphh wrote: PMs PMs are not allowed in this game.
This confuses me because from the other Mafia threads I read I feel that PMs are a pretty important part of the game. In particular, how is the scum supposed to operate without PMs?
To clarify: The no PMs rule does not apply to scum. They are still allowed to communicate outside of the thread. Town aligned and third party roles must keep everything inside the thread, however, for the sake of balance and to keep the game fun for everybody.
So it's already been addressed during the signup stage. Freeloader was probably just lazy and didn't read through the entire thread.
Yes, I'm ashamed to admit I let pages 2-8 or 9 go without reading it, I assumed it was all just full of "/in's." I only read the first post and posts since the game has officially started.
One really big point - if you're going to quote a really long post it'd be great if you could put it in spoiler tags (just a formatting issue but helps to clean up the page a fair bit). Meaning you, iGrok.
@CjrNinja Can you confirm that the role PM for mafia members spells out that mafia can communicate by PM? If this is true than obviously mafia wouldn't post that question and I'll change my vote from freeloader. Otherwise, though, he seems even more scummy to me now. I didn't vote for him cause he asked a silly question, it was how he replied to scrutiny.
Since then, he hasn't posted in the thread at all. And I can confirm that he's been on TL - check his post history, he's posted a whole bunch in today's MLG live report. Either he's scum and waiting for suspicion to die down or he's town and has given up and resigned himself to getting lynched.
Or he simply cannot extract himself from the excitement that is MLG, I know I couldn't for most of this weekend. I think that the reasoning that has come forth from some of the experienced players should convince us to leave freeloader for now and concentrate on others --- I agree with Alderan's suspicions of Amazingxkcd (posts that just repeat the description of the game) and Grush57 (confusing contradictions) and the strange hasty back and forth behavior of Jimboo pointed out by TranceStorm.
I didn't catch it in time to see the original. I think flamewheel can see this sort of thing so I'll ask him. Because this is a noobies game I'll let you go with just a warning but the next time ANYONE does this they die, no exceptions. You've been warned
I already reported it and the mod told me it was a typo fix.
Lets get one thing clear here - do not Report anything to TL mods that isn't a direct violation of the TL Commandments (excluding spam - spam is legal here). We police ourselves, and only call in the authorities when we need them. Report to the Mod of your game, or Qatol if you have a problem with Mod.
This. We self moderate. For the love of god, don't use the report button in this subforum.
qft -___________-
I quote this to point of that redFF's only post in the game is just this one-liner spam. Perhaps he is too busy in his other mafia game to contribute something more useful to his post, but then he should have waited until he had more time to post.
Ohhh dirtay! I didn't not realize outside posts were fair game for this! I was under the impression (initially) that you can't click on ppls profiles/outside posts to avoid cheating or w/e. But I guess that's fair game.
What do I honestly think and why haven't I really commented even though I threw myself under the bus? I'll give a longer explanation come closer to Day 1's end. Har har har, another "bad defensive" post by me :D Take it as you may.
@CjrNinja Okay, fair enough. I'll unvote freeloader for now.
A bunch of other names have come up, with better or worse cases against them Here's what I think:
Jimbooo - seems more inexperienced than scum. I think that's the consensus so let's focus on other people.
cherubael - I do not understand people's suspicion of him (literally don't understand. If you're voting him, please explain why). Kairo voted for him but even seemed confused in his post: + Show Spoiler +
On June 06 2011 09:56 Kairo wrote: FL625s berhaviour is slightly suspicious, but I find the behaviour of cherubael to be more suspicious.
His posts have been reeking of bloodlust, and he have been throwing accusations around like they were candy.
On June 05 2011 12:44 freeloader625 wrote: Omg I'm so excited for this. I read all the rules twice and just want to ask to anyone willing to answer (before the game starts) since these were not answered in the thread rules:
1) Since PMs are not allowed, how would mafia communicate with each other? 2) Once someone dies whether it be by votes or mafia hit, will their roles be revealed?
Thanks and GL everyone! (I've only played SC2 Mafia before and got hooked)
Hmm, a bit suspicious no? Right when the PM are getting sent out too. Scum slip?
A bit of a bold accusation, I would say. However, I do have to agree, the first question does look a bit suspicious. After all, a townie would have *no* reason to ask such a question, as they can't PM anyway.
Oh but a townie does have reasons to ask such a question.
Don't take my SC2 Mafia as lack of experience, I was able to deduce roles within the 50seconds given. :D
What reason does a townie have to ask such a question?
All I can say is, all too often the first one to speak is "put on trial." Sleep on it.
So...you asked a question so you could be lynched day one...alright...that makes sense. (note the sarcasm)
Either you give a legitimate, straight reason to ask this sort of question as townie, or you clearly are just trying to save your butt after having messed and shown your role as mafia.
Also, Aril, you seem to be very quick in defending him, while not wanting to accuse anyone. Are you afraid your role will be too obvious if you accuse someone? Also, what reason do you have to defend him? What has he done for you? The only reason would be because you are both mafia, and you are trying to look out for him.
On June 05 2011 15:09 omgCRAZY wrote: With this being a newbies game I wouldn't be surprised that someone wants to get a handle on the game.
What I find interesting is how aprudds was so quick to get everyones attention focused on someone else and how the game has barely started and yet cherubael and Jimboo are already throwing out votes.
He has plenty of reasons to be a townie. Don't even think about that kind of McCarthy Bullshit this early in the game.
Anyone voting this early deserves some measure of suspicion.
------ from another post
Regarding discussion:
Freeloader is probably not scum. He is new and likely inexperienced. However, just to be sure, a cop needs to check him tonight. Which reminds me:
This is nowhere near waterproof, but I feel that I have nowhere better to put a vote at this time.
Since it is likely that FL625 is the one that will get lynched today, we will get a flip. If he flips mafia I will conclude that cherubael is most likely non-mafia (a.k.a townie in this game, since it does not have third party roles); but if he flips townie (more likely imo) I will still view cherubael as highly suspicious.
On a sidenote: This game is mind-bending. I am too chicken to suggest that people change their vote from FL to cherubael, since it still is most likely that FL gets lynched, and there is a realistic chance that FL flips mafia. And if I had suggested that, it would paint a huge red cross on my back. And also by writing this, pointing out that I am afraid of death when the ideal mafia mindset is to be fearless of death for the benefit of the team can be considered as scummy. Gaah.
If it is revealed afterwards that all mafia is lurking and that we are just a clueless chicken coop I will have to kick myself in the back.
TheAwesomeAll - I don't really understand the case against him either. He posted a list of lurkers. Yay. But he also addressed the only thing that had been discussed up until then (freeloader). I don't think its fair to say someone's trying to post while avoiding talking substantively when there's not really any substance to talk about anyways.
amazingxkcd - the case against him is mostly this post:
On June 06 2011 02:56 amazingxkcd wrote: It is quite clear that it can be seen who are the main talkers for both side. The only question is now how to distinguish between the two sides and how to act upon it
which is admittedly - weird. Reposting the "newbie guides" was in response to a question by rookie44. I want to see more of his posts and how he votes, to get a better sense of him.
Lafali - saying "its OK to mislynch" could be scummy or it could be his honest opinion. Without knowing any playing history I don't think its possible to tell.
grush57 - he has a better case against him than most others. Saying
On June 06 2011 04:12 grush57 wrote: Im not inactive, I just dont feel like anybody can accuse this early.
and then joining the fl625 bandwagon and saying
On June 06 2011 04:21 grush57 wrote: Yea true, I stupidly joined the bandwagon to lynch freeloader from his posts.
seems more than a bit weird. Also he hasn't really offered his opinion on anything - those two posts are literally all that he said on freeloader despite voting for him. Alderan made a decent case a little while ago. _________________________________________________
I'm not sorry for "bandwagonning" freeloader early on 'cause we got some discussion going and got people posting (which is always good for the town). And I still think there's a decent case against him.
Two people I think need to talk more are Benjef who voted, then changed his vote, then made one post about it without really saying anything, and Aril, who voted Kurumi and only said
On June 06 2011 11:41 Aril wrote: Heya, I don't think I'll be on tomorrow so I'm voting now.
I was about to EBWOP that I think that grush57 was our best lynch. But then freeloader625 posted again. I waited a bit to see if he had any more to say. He didn't, and I'm even more convinced that we should lynch him.
First off, its a big long post showing he's been paying attention to the thread. But he doesn't address anything except the arguments against him. That, in my mind, is the biggest strike against him - if he was town, he'd be concerned with more than just his own survival, he'd want to find out who the mafia are. If he was a good town player he'd talk about some of the other accusations, some of the other discussions - especially since he's indicated that he's been following the thread. And also because, if you look at the last few pages, he hasn't been suspect number one for a while.
Second, freeloader625 sounds like he's trying really hard to sound unconcerned about the allegations against him. That doesn't jive with writing a big post that has no purpose other than defending himself. He's trying to defend himself without sounding like he's defending himself (mostly by jumping on DeMorcerf's and CjrNinja's explanations without really providing his own) - a scummy play for sure.
What do I honestly think and why haven't I really commented even though I threw myself under the bus? I'll give a longer explanation come closer to Day 1's end. Har har har, another "bad defensive" post by me :D Take it as you may.
I take it as meaning: freeloader625, you are scum. So I'm gonna put that vote I just took off of you back on.
This post will be long. And split into two parts. The first part will be setup analysis. The second part will be a post-by-post analysis of Kurumi. There will be no tl;dr. Welcome to Mafia ^^.
Let's begin.
Setup: 40 players. 1/5 are scum. Scum have 4 kp N1, and D1 is rarely a scum lynch (sad but true). However, there are medics and vets, so assume D2: 36 players - 28 Town 8 scum, or .222 scum. Now we're getting somewhere.
Because of the scum %, which is slightly high for a large game (large games tend to help scum get lost in the noise), and based on Town traditionally having more PRs anyways, I guarantee tht Town has a greater number of PRs. Probably 150-250%.
I'll analyze Scum roles first so we can get a rough estimate of the number of blue roles.
8 Scum. 1 GF. There are definitely not more than 50% PRs on the red team. That would be absurd for a newbie-friendly game. Therefore, 2-3 RBs. 3 RBs is a little high, so I'll guesstimate 2. This leave us with 3 PRs on scum.
Blue Roles
Detective: In this game, Detectives (Also known as Cops and DTs) check Role in addition to alignment. This makes DT a VERY powerful role. However, there is probably more than 1 - having only one makes the game to easy to be swung with a lucky snipe. Therefore, I'd guess there are 2 DTs.
Medics and Vets: Lately, theres been a tendency to display both but only give out one or the other of these roles. In this case, however, I will assume both. Likely 2 Medics (for the same reason as 2 DTs - if one gets sniped thats just bad luck) and 1 Vet. Veterans kind of get their own kind of weighting when it comes to balancing teams. You know it will be useful if town is losing, but it does nothing active to help them. Veterans help to stabilize the game and make it less swing-y, which is exactly what you want for a newbie game.
Lastly, Vigilantes. Knowing Meapak, theres at least one, probably 2 Vigilantes. Vigilantes can be the town saviors. Particularly in a game like this, the faster we can whittle down Mafia KP the better off we'll be. Vigis should take note of who presses for and opposes a lynch, and when we see the results, act accordingly - probably NOT before N2 though.
Note that I do not count vets toward Power Role balance because they are so weak. Also Vigis only count for 75% of a PR because they can do more harm than good. Role cops, on the other hand, count for 150% of a PR. Yes, they are that strong.
Black Roles Traditionally, Black roles are 3rd party, but since there aren't any sks, I'm counting Miller as a black role.
Miller is the bane of any cop. Every check you make that comes back Goon is less usefull. You can't confirm that he's anti town (though feel free to pressure them and see if they crack!). Millers count as -50% of a PR to Town. I would be VERY surprised if there were more than 1 Miller in this game, and certainly not more than two.
So, in summary: 5 Goons, 2 RBs, 1 GF = 3 PRs 2 DTs, 2 Medics, 1 Vet, 2 Vigis = 6.5 PRs 1 Miller = -.5 PRs
Total of 6:3 - Perfect - 200%
Is that guaranteed to be accurate? No. But its probably pretty close.
Now on to Analysis!
Today's subject is Kurumi. The black does not mean I think he's a miller, it means I don't know yet.
So, post by post:
On June 05 2011 18:03 Kurumi wrote: Freeloader tries to justify SC2 Mafia as real Mafia experience,I'd go with noobtown,yeah. Now lets sniff for potential bandwagoners...
Manages to insult Freeloader and defend him at the same time. His next move, searching for bandwagonners, is a good idea, although its really not too hard to search through the 6 post long vote thread :p. Nothing to really note here except attitude.
On June 05 2011 13:47 Treadmill wrote: It is a good spot, aprudds. We should keep an eye on freeloader625.
Jimbooo, we do have to lynch somebody. Being "hasty" isn't really a concern. And somebody with next to no evidence against them is a better lynch than everyone else with no evidence against them at all. Still, 48 hours yet.
What? Bad lynches are good lynches? Are You a stupid Rat or You're a Noobtown? Lynch is the most IMPORTANT tool town gets. ##vote Treadmill
This is either a misread or a mislead. I immediately noted 2 things here: the ridiculously aggressive attitude was one. Treadmill is saying here that we need to use every bit of evidence, and that at the moment we had very little but it was enough to start. I might not have completely agreed with Treadmill, but I didn't think he was scum because of it. Kurumi is apparently convinced enough by this post that Treadmill is scum to vote - after he's yelled at others for voting based on little to no evidence.
On June 05 2011 14:12 Lafali wrote: Good catch by aprudds. A townie wouldn't need to know that information. However, he could be new. There are 40 people in this game though, so its not like its mylo.
My God,so many Rats running between my legs! No,we can't lynch the guy because of one thing. We should be suspicious WHY the bandwagon formed so FAST on such shitty evidence. It is not mylo,but we must use lynch to it's best.
Literally this is what happened: Lafali says "aprudds has a point, but it could mean nothing. Fortunately, its not the end of the world if we fuck up." Kurumi continues his hyper-aggression. Lafali's post meant nothing - he may as well have not posted. Based on this, Kurumi accuses Lafali of being scum.+ Show Spoiler +
Granted, it was a useless post - a scummy thing to do with good player meta, but as a newbie Lafali probably felt (s)he should contribute something.
On June 05 2011 15:09 omgCRAZY wrote: With this being a newbies game I wouldn't be surprised that someone wants to get a handle on the game.
What I find interesting is how aprudds was so quick to get everyones attention focused on someone else and how the game has barely started and yet cherubael and Jimboo are already throwing out votes.
His subsequent posts were fishy. Due to that I hopped on the voting bandwagon along with them. Its a 40 player game, I'm sure we can afford a few mislynches. Regardless, we should continue scumhunting. We do have 48 hours.
Yeah,two SHORT posts about his SC2 mafia experience,fishy as heck."I hopped on voting bandwagon" What? Only Scum bandwagons. "I'm sure we can afford a few mislynches" WHAT THE FUCK? No,we can't afford mislynch for the sake of mislynching. Someone gives red vibes? WE LYNCH HIM. Someone made dumb question once,while Scummy Rats like You run around and we should lynch him? I will drop Treadmill for now,because You're infinitely more scummy than him.
On June 05 2011 15:09 omgCRAZY wrote: With this being a newbies game I wouldn't be surprised that someone wants to get a handle on the game.
What I find interesting is how aprudds was so quick to get everyones attention focused on someone else and how the game has barely started and yet cherubael and Jimboo are already throwing out votes.
His subsequent posts were fishy. Due to that I hopped on the voting bandwagon along with them. Its a 40 player game, I'm sure we can afford a few mislynches. Regardless, we should continue scumhunting. We do have 48 hours.
Yeah,two SHORT posts about his SC2 mafia experience,fishy as heck."I hopped on voting bandwagon" What? Only Scum bandwagons. "I'm sure we can afford a few mislynches" WHAT THE FUCK? No,we can't afford mislynch for the sake of mislynching. Someone gives red vibes? WE LYNCH HIM. Someone made dumb question once,while Scummy Rats like You run around and we should lynch him? I will drop Treadmill for now,because You're infinitely more scummy than him.
The more that you yell, The more attention you get. Keep up the noise, Joe
[/sarcasm]
Even if you are town, and its too early to throw accusations out, you're playing TERRIBLY anti-town. Again, Chill.
Because I draw discussion from terrible freeloader bandwagon? I don't throw accusations out,they've slipped already. Treadmill and Lafali both advocate mislynches and not thinking before lynching. They hopped on bandwagon and they will.
This is actually a very interesting post. As you can see, Kurumi is mis-representing both Lafali and Treadmill. Neither of them "advocate mis-lynches", they simply stated that a mislynch was ok, and even probable. Neither of them are anti-town, and Treadmill is actually playing pro-town.
On June 05 2011 18:28 Sprungjeezy wrote: Kurumi, you come off as a towny that is reading too far into too little. It's important to remember that this game is full of beginners and important to remember people will try to take advantage of that, but people will still make mistakes such as hopping on a bandwagon without really thinking into it.
Time for bed for me though. Cya tomorrow.
No. Scum wants Town to mislynch. Scum wants Town not to think about other suspects. Scum wants to make Town jump on one bandwagon and deny EVERY discussion about anything else. They are doing that,not only but they're advocating that as a good thing.
This is a very true post. That is precisely what scum wants. Its important to note that scum also wants to cause as much chaos in the town as possible as well.
On June 05 2011 18:25 Kurumi wrote: EDWOP: I write "You" with capital Y because I feel like and it is Polish thing. I call Scum/people I am suspicious of Rats. Get over it.
No haiku for this, The point is too short for one. Just a simple note
Do shit like this, you're going to piss people off. Pissing people off is a good way to die. Dying does not help your team at all (at least in this game). You know this, you've played several games. Don't fuck over the newbies because you want to be obnoxious.
As far as your "slips" go:
Lafali, from what I can tell, is a newbie who bandwagonned, read my post warning against bandwagons, and unvoted.
Treadmill: He said we should wait, and every point of evidence is important no matter how small. Great reason to vote him.
Point grew after I wrote the haiku :p
Scum will unvote after someone called it out to remain 'unsuspicious". Also why the heck Town would lynch person generating discussion and bringing scummy suspects? Scum would like to lynch me,but they can just kill me at night.
On June 05 2011 20:30 Benjef wrote: ##Unvote Treadmill ##Vote: freeloader625
You better post there.
The one super-pro-town thing he's done all game! Catching silent voters is SUPER important, particularly in a large game like this.
On June 05 2011 21:40 Kurumi wrote: @Pyo (Pyo voted for Kurumi and pointed out that Kurumi got lynched D1 last game) Because Your arguments are dumb I am going to ignore You. A tip: In mafia XXXIX I was spreading chaos in the Town,also I was really scummy. I wasn't talkative,I was spammy. If You want any meta reads,go check PYPI and PTP.
Pyo calls him out, Kurumi admits to spreading chaos in the town the game before.
[green]Pyo asks Kurumi for a list of "experienced players"
On June 05 2011 22:45 Kurumi wrote: Jackal58 - he is very good GGQ - I think he is there for at least short while Me Impervious from replacements played a bit there too gtrsrs played one game I think.
You're not going to participating in lynching the most scummy player Pyo? While I understand place holder votes You need to know that people like me will remember that. I want to see a good post after You're back.
Jackal58 is good. GGQ is good, borderline very good (no offense Jackal ♥). Vain is good. I'd like to think I'm decent. Impervious is... interesting haha. Kurumi has played 3 games, and Jackal called him out later on. Whats important here is that Kurumi lumps himself in with very good players that town should listen to. He's attempting to establish a position of power for himself.
On June 05 2011 23:20 Kurumi wrote: By the most scummy player I meant Your suspicion. An example of good post would be an analysis pointing out the biggest slips of player X leading Town in a Scum lynch.Remember though: there's nothing wrong about being wrong(unless You're redtooth,then You commit suicide on Day 3) A good post could be summing up who attacked who and who defended who + Your thoughts about it. Everything that generates discussion is good. You must remember though,that without good evidence there's probably no point in bringing something new,because this will cause chaos. Pyo,it is too fast for scum to bus too. Freeloader's situation is really uncertain. His small,but bandwagon is based on shitty evidence. "He asked a question,no townie would ask it!" Think for a second. What would happen if Freeloader was scum? Someone would pm him and tell him everything he needed to know,makes sense? Hell yes. We aren't that vindictive,don't worry <3 But there are players who are magnets,namely Radfield and Kavdragon,who like to die Day/Night 1.
Kurumi hasn't been here that long, but he's clearly read up on his mafia. He knows the names of some older players. He is correct in that all discussion is good discussion, but (IMO)there are certain methods of generating it that do no good to town because they cause too much chaos. Still, point in his favor though.
On June 05 2011 23:53 Kurumi wrote: Bussing is when You vote for lynch/kill Your Mafia buddy to make Yourself less suspicious/earn town cred,mostly happens when there's no way to save him/perform some gambit or wicked trickery. Well,it is rather safe to assume that anyone who got assigned as Godfather is going to help his newbie Mafia bros as fast as possible - he is probably one of the "better" players,but this might be a mislead. Also as far I remember in my PYPI pm I had mafia list and that I can PM them etc. etc.,while it wasn't a "noob game" I strongly believe that there everything a new player should know about his role/alignment.
Not much to say about this. Slightly pro-town I guess? Kinda obvious stuff, but I'm giving people a pass on obvious stuff this game because its a newbie game and so not everything IS obvious.
On June 05 2011 23:20 Kurumi wrote: By the most scummy player I meant Your suspicion. An example of good post would be an analysis pointing out the biggest slips of player X leading Town in a Scum lynch.Remember though: there's nothing wrong about being wrong(unless You're redtooth,then You commit suicide on Day 3) A good post could be summing up who attacked who and who defended who + Your thoughts about it. Everything that generates discussion is good. You must remember though,that without good evidence there's probably no point in bringing something new,because this will cause chaos. Pyo,it is too fast for scum to bus too. Freeloader's situation is really uncertain. His small,but bandwagon is based on shitty evidence. "He asked a question,no townie would ask it!" Think for a second. What would happen if Freeloader was scum? Someone would pm him and tell him everything he needed to know,makes sense? Hell yes. We aren't that vindictive,don't worry <3 But there are players who are magnets,namely Radfield and Kavdragon,who like to die Day/Night 1.
Kurumi, you're talking for the sake of talking and stirring up too many accusations without any discussion or analysis. Talk is good, blind accusations are bad. This makes chaos and makes it hard to focus on one thing at a time. (AGAIN)
There isn't much to go on right now. Here's what happened:
1 guy asked a dumb question. Scum Scale: *---- 3 guys bandwaggonned. Scum Scale: **--- 2-3 people throw around un-called-for accusations. Scum Scale: ***--
Oh, and Pyo called you out on being an ass.
If you are an experienced player like you say, you should know that rapidly throwing out multiple low impact accusations just lead to you getting ignored or lynched :/
@Pyo You need somewhere to get a discussion started. The accusation was arbitrary, but it's the best thing there was after the roles got pmed and before the game started. After everyone starts posting their mind on this there will be a greater pool of posts to look over.
My dumbness meter went over 9000. Before saying "HURR DURR YOU DID NOTHING" read my posts. I brought evidence why I think they're scum.
aprudds (the originator of the whole "Freeloader Debacle") gives a nice, concise analysis of whats gone on in the game, and (in the @Pyo section), explains what his reasoning was for the first accusation. + Show Spoiler [Mini aprudds read] +
IMO, it seems that aprudds and Kurumi actually have similar philosophies, its just that aprudds doesn't piss off as many people along the way.
Kurumi pulls an OMGUS (Oh My God You Suck) and heavily insults aprudds.
On June 06 2011 00:08 Jackal58 wrote: I believe this is Kurumi's 4th game. Maybe counting a mini game. He was lynched day one in the first game I played with him. He has outed himself as our SK in the second game I've played with him. Don't assume he's experienced. He's not.
I played in XXXIX then PYPI then PTP now there.
This is Kurumi's prior experience. Note that in one of these games he was lynched D1.
Vain steps in to defend Treadmill and aprudds.
On June 06 2011 00:27 Kurumi wrote: @Vain Let aprudds defend himself.
On June 06 2011 00:30 Kurumi wrote: EDWOP: I meant,let him play by himself,he does not need Your help. The evidence is simple: They support bad lynches,they say that we can waste lynches,they want Town to make quick decision which they didn't think about enough
On June 06 2011 01:27 DeMorcerf wrote:I do not understand what you mean by this, sorry. Can you clarify whether "insane" is a good thing or a bad thing in this context; and what does "tunnel the roster" mean?
Insane as in crazy. Not good at all. Tunneling is when you pick one player and call him/her scum for the entire game.
Kurumi has taken it to an entirely new level.
Sorry but Palmar and RedFF are better at tunneling everyone than me >:C
Tunnelling is still bad -_-. However, I don't think Kurumi is tunnelling this game. He's just accusing everyone who disagrees with him of being scum.
On June 06 2011 03:52 Kurumi wrote: Hey guys voting on freeloader bandwagon,are You willing to post? (Drazerk,grush57)
Continuing to prod Silent Voters. Pro-town. Really unexpected.
On June 05 2011 15:09 omgCRAZY wrote: With this being a newbies game I wouldn't be surprised that someone wants to get a handle on the game.
What I find interesting is how aprudds was so quick to get everyones attention focused on someone else and how the game has barely started and yet cherubael and Jimboo are already throwing out votes.
His subsequent posts were fishy. Due to that I hopped on the voting bandwagon along with them. Its a 40 player game, I'm sure we can afford a few mislynches. Regardless, we should continue scumhunting. We do have 48 hours.
Yeah,two SHORT posts about his SC2 mafia experience,fishy as heck."I hopped on voting bandwagon" What? Only Scum bandwagons. "I'm sure we can afford a few mislynches" WHAT THE FUCK? No,we can't afford mislynch for the sake of mislynching. Someone gives red vibes? WE LYNCH HIM. Someone made dumb question once,while Scummy Rats like You run around and we should lynch him? I will drop Treadmill for now,because You're infinitely more scummy than him.
I'm new to mafia forum games like this and mostly used to smaller and faster-paced ones where taking a risk on a mislynch is pretty common as long as the game is not mislynch-lose. The subsequent posts from treadmill seemed fishy and people started to vote for him and at that point he was the only one looking suspicious to me. However, after reading more into the thread it seemed like a bad idea to vote so early, and it would be better to wait for any tells, and then on day two, cop reports.
Treadmill is suspicious to You? You both are doing the same thing. Also thanks for excuse,I enjoy eating them. Because they're yummy. Why would DT report on Day 2? It is an easy target for Mafia,even when med protected they can just stack on him. Why are You spreading bad ideas?
Kurumi points out that DTs shouldn't report on D2 since mafia can stack kills. This is an excellent point - DTs should wait until they have something useful to report before revealing themselves. I don't understand the first half of this post, so I'm ignoring it lol.
UPDATED LIST plz ignore the previous one, credits to morcerf <3
this list doesn't tell anything about the people on the list... Maybe they're just lurking like I was. You can delete me from that list btw.
This post can be treated like it never happened,You know? What are Your thoughts on freeloader bandwagon? Who's Your scum suspect #1?
Asking questions, its been a bit since he last posted an opinion of his own (aside from other people are "Rats"). Nothing really here.+ Show Spoiler [Tiny supersoft read here] +
Admitting to lurking and doing nothing but saying 'hey look I'm not lurking' is terrible.
UPDATED LIST plz ignore the previous one, credits to morcerf <3
this list doesn't tell anything about the people on the list... Maybe they're just lurking like I was. You can delete me from that list btw.
This post can be treated like it never happened,You know? What are Your thoughts on freeloader bandwagon? Who's Your scum suspect #1?
I don't have a scum suspect on day1. It's too early to judge anyone. It's just not reasonable to randomlynch someone in the first round, before we got to know each other a little bit.
We can't no lynch. There needs to be a lynch every Day.
True.
And thats the last post he made. It may be time related. That was ~10 hours ago, possibly sleeping.
So, what can we take from all this?
Kurumi is a very aggressive player known for causing chaos. He has cast suspicion on many people, mostly those who argued with him. He has also thrown in some genuinely Pro-town things into his posting. Its very difficult to make a final call, but...
I believe that Kurumi is Scum. In my opinion, his Pro-town points were thrown in at random or very obvious to remove suspicion from him. However, I must take into account that I may have been biased, as well as his pro-town things. Because of this, I do not advocate a Kurumi Lynch D1. Instead, I think that Kurumi should be our prime DT target. Knowledge of his alignment will undoubtedly help us determine who is scum and who is town.
GGQ, Jackal, Vain, I'd particularly appreciate it if you would weigh in here.
To new players, this is a complete, thorough analysis of a player. You don't have to do things like this. But you'll be a much better player if you do, even if you don't post it (there are times not to, like if you realize someone is a DT or Medic). Go forth and analyze!
[QUOTE]On June 06 2011 15:31 gtrsrs wrote: for the record, fishing for blues is scummy[quote] Is this in response to anything?
[quote]you're still my prime FoS, iGrok, no matter how long your post is[/QUOTE] With how quickly you jumped on me based on nothing, I'd expect nothing less. Perhaps though, you should read the post instead of remarking at its length. And then perhaps you should run an analysis of me.
In fact, I'd like to see you do a post-by-post analysis of me. Will you do that? You might be surprised at what you find. For example, in Experiment Mafia II, I ran a post-by-post analysis of the player "Blue1", who I believed to be quite scummy and who was under a lot of suspicion at the time. However, upon going through it, I was forced to conclude that he was actually Town. Town won on Day 3.
I should also mention that in the PR weighting formula, those are just my own weightings that I personally use, and not some universally accepted figure. I've found them to be remarkably accurate though.
here is my scum hunt you post haiku's in a game where posting anything more than necessary is distracting and derailing you try to find the town's blues so that the mafia can know what they're up against the one thing that the town has as an advantage is that the mafia doesn't know our PRs and here you are spelling the info out for them
even if you're not mafia, your two biggest contributions so far are anti-town
everyone i encourage you to ##vote: iGrok and watch how he (and others) react as the votes pile up. putting the pressure on someone is a good way to find mafia. watch the people that come to defend him and how they do so and then when he flips red, go after them next
in fact i think kurumi is doing the right thing. we have nothing to go on on day 1. there are a lot of inexperienced players. lots of times if a new player is mafia and you insinuate that they're mafia they get really defensive. even if they know that you're accusing everyone, new players can slip up when you get around to accusing them. so i think kurumi is just trying to shake out some baddie mafias.
On June 06 2011 16:04 gtrsrs wrote: here is my scum hunt you post haiku's in a game where posting anything more than necessary is distracting and derailing you try to find the town's blues so that the mafia can know what they're up against the one thing that the town has as an advantage is that the mafia doesn't know our PRs and here you are spelling the info out for them
even if you're not mafia, your two biggest contributions so far are anti-town
everyone i encourage you to ##vote: iGrok and watch how he (and others) react as the votes pile up. putting the pressure on someone is a good way to find mafia. watch the people that come to defend him and how they do so and then when he flips red, go after them next
Okay, this is not an analysis. Everyone please note how bad this is.
But as a refutation,
I posted haikus because I wanted to, and every single one had a purpose. I did not try to find out the town's blues. I tried to guess the setup. This helps town out just as much as it helps scum out, if not more so. If you disagree, I want to know why, in explicit detail. Mafia doesn't know who is what PR, or even how many - they can only guess, same as me. Same point as above.
If you count both of those as my only two contributions, I'll be able to simply ignore you as a terrile player. The analysis of Kurumi, and holding town together from fracturing immediately should also be in there. As well as explaining several concepts for the newer players.
On June 06 2011 16:11 gtrsrs wrote: in fact i think kurumi is doing the right thing. we have nothing to go on on day 1. there are a lot of inexperienced players. lots of times if a new player is mafia and you insinuate that they're mafia they get really defensive. even if they know that you're accusing everyone, new players can slip up when you get around to accusing them. so i think kurumi is just trying to shake out some baddie mafias.
I went through your post history - when exactly have you played before? I know you're big in the LoL subforum, but all I could find regarding mafia was as a replacement in SNMM3 and a late /in for Newbie Mini Mafia I. Just curious because you're acting like you have some knowledge of how newbies play vs how experienced people play.
On June 06 2011 12:54 CjrNinja wrote: I can't confirm what the actual role PM said for mafia members. But looking back through this thread I did find:
On May 30 2011 01:33 Varpulis wrote:
On May 30 2011 00:34 blackone wrote:
On May 29 2011 06:47 Meapak_Ziphh wrote: PMs PMs are not allowed in this game.
This confuses me because from the other Mafia threads I read I feel that PMs are a pretty important part of the game. In particular, how is the scum supposed to operate without PMs?
To clarify: The no PMs rule does not apply to scum. They are still allowed to communicate outside of the thread. Town aligned and third party roles must keep everything inside the thread, however, for the sake of balance and to keep the game fun for everybody.
So it's already been addressed during the signup stage. Freeloader was probably just lazy and didn't read through the entire thread.
Yes, I'm ashamed to admit I let pages 2-8 or 9 go without reading it, I assumed it was all just full of "/in's." I only read the first post and posts since the game has officially started.
One really big point - if you're going to quote a really long post it'd be great if you could put it in spoiler tags (just a formatting issue but helps to clean up the page a fair bit). Meaning you, iGrok.
@CjrNinja Can you confirm that the role PM for mafia members spells out that mafia can communicate by PM? If this is true than obviously mafia wouldn't post that question and I'll change my vote from freeloader. Otherwise, though, he seems even more scummy to me now. I didn't vote for him cause he asked a silly question, it was how he replied to scrutiny.
Since then, he hasn't posted in the thread at all. And I can confirm that he's been on TL - check his post history, he's posted a whole bunch in today's MLG live report. Either he's scum and waiting for suspicion to die down or he's town and has given up and resigned himself to getting lynched.
Or he simply cannot extract himself from the excitement that is MLG, I know I couldn't for most of this weekend. I think that the reasoning that has come forth from some of the experienced players should convince us to leave freeloader for now and concentrate on others --- I agree with Alderan's suspicions of Amazingxkcd (posts that just repeat the description of the game) and Grush57 (confusing contradictions) and the strange hasty back and forth behavior of Jimboo pointed out by TranceStorm.
I didn't catch it in time to see the original. I think flamewheel can see this sort of thing so I'll ask him. Because this is a noobies game I'll let you go with just a warning but the next time ANYONE does this they die, no exceptions. You've been warned
I already reported it and the mod told me it was a typo fix.
Lets get one thing clear here - do not Report anything to TL mods that isn't a direct violation of the TL Commandments (excluding spam - spam is legal here). We police ourselves, and only call in the authorities when we need them. Report to the Mod of your game, or Qatol if you have a problem with Mod.
This. We self moderate. For the love of god, don't use the report button in this subforum.
qft -___________-
I quote this to point of that redFF's only post in the game is just this one-liner spam. Perhaps he is too busy in his other mafia game to contribute something more useful to his post, but then he should have waited until he had more time to post.
Ohhh dirtay! I didn't not realize outside posts were fair game for this! I was under the impression (initially) that you can't click on ppls profiles/outside posts to avoid cheating or w/e. But I guess that's fair game.
What do I honestly think and why haven't I really commented even though I threw myself under the bus? I'll give a longer explanation come closer to Day 1's end. Har har har, another "bad defensive" post by me :D Take it as you may.
What is this? Are you trying to role play as a miller or something?? Stop it. If you're town; please stop posting like this and give us some coherent thoughts. All you're doing at the moment is digging a deeper hole for yourself and making it easier for others to vote for you. -.-
@ iGrok I disagree with your player analysis. I think Kumuri is taking a very pro-town initiative by putting a lot of pressure on inexperienced players. It's a good opportunity to gauge reactions and hopefully pick up on a scum slip if the accused can't handle the pressure ^^ Also, the less attention towards blue roles, the better... last thing town needs is an inexperienced playing letting slip his blue role on day1.
On June 06 2011 16:20 CjrNinja wrote: @ iGrok I disagree with your player analysis. I think Kumuri is taking a very pro-town initiative by putting a lot of pressure on inexperienced players. It's a good opportunity to gauge reactions and hopefully pick up on a scum slip if the accused can't handle the pressure ^^ Also, the less attention towards blue roles, the better... last thing town needs is an inexperienced playing letting slip his blue role on day1.
Disagreement is fine! I'm a huge fan of actual discussion about things - but someone had to start the analysis, and the little quotes we were getting before are much more annoying to deal with. As I said, I'm not completely certain on Kurumi, but if I had to choose I'd say scum. Thats why I asked for a DT check.
Regarding my 'focus on blue roles', which I take you and gtr to mean my Setup Analysis, what I love most about Mafia is the mechanics, and so I'm going to try to work those out as best I can. Since neither mafia nor town knew (or knows now) how many of each role there are, I haven't really done anything. However, with rough, probable numbers, we can work out the best way to assign our blue powers. Blues are (arguably) the most important part of a mafia game - we should try to line up some good actions instead of just hoping for the best.
On June 05 2011 18:03 Kurumi wrote: Freeloader tries to justify SC2 Mafia as real Mafia experience,I'd go with noobtown,yeah. Now lets sniff for potential bandwagoners...
Manages to insult Freeloader and defend him at the same time. His next move, searching for bandwagonners, is a good idea, although its really not too hard to search through the 6 post long vote thread :p. Nothing to really note here except attitude.
On June 05 2011 13:47 Treadmill wrote: It is a good spot, aprudds. We should keep an eye on freeloader625.
Jimbooo, we do have to lynch somebody. Being "hasty" isn't really a concern. And somebody with next to no evidence against them is a better lynch than everyone else with no evidence against them at all. Still, 48 hours yet.
What? Bad lynches are good lynches? Are You a stupid Rat or You're a Noobtown? Lynch is the most IMPORTANT tool town gets. ##vote Treadmill
This is either a misread or a mislead. I immediately noted 2 things here: the ridiculously aggressive attitude was one. Treadmill is saying here that we need to use every bit of evidence, and that at the moment we had very little but it was enough to start. I might not have completely agreed with Treadmill, but I didn't think he was scum because of it. Kurumi is apparently convinced enough by this post that Treadmill is scum to vote - after he's yelled at others for voting based on little to no evidence.
On June 05 2011 14:12 Lafali wrote: Good catch by aprudds. A townie wouldn't need to know that information. However, he could be new. There are 40 people in this game though, so its not like its mylo.
My God,so many Rats running between my legs! No,we can't lynch the guy because of one thing. We should be suspicious WHY the bandwagon formed so FAST on such shitty evidence. It is not mylo,but we must use lynch to it's best.
Literally this is what happened: Lafali says "aprudds has a point, but it could mean nothing. Fortunately, its not the end of the world if we fuck up." Kurumi continues his hyper-aggression. Lafali's post meant nothing - he may as well have not posted. Based on this, Kurumi accuses Lafali of being scum.+ Show Spoiler +
Granted, it was a useless post - a scummy thing to do with good player meta, but as a newbie Lafali probably felt (s)he should contribute something.
On June 05 2011 15:09 omgCRAZY wrote: With this being a newbies game I wouldn't be surprised that someone wants to get a handle on the game.
What I find interesting is how aprudds was so quick to get everyones attention focused on someone else and how the game has barely started and yet cherubael and Jimboo are already throwing out votes.
His subsequent posts were fishy. Due to that I hopped on the voting bandwagon along with them. Its a 40 player game, I'm sure we can afford a few mislynches. Regardless, we should continue scumhunting. We do have 48 hours.
Yeah,two SHORT posts about his SC2 mafia experience,fishy as heck."I hopped on voting bandwagon" What? Only Scum bandwagons. "I'm sure we can afford a few mislynches" WHAT THE FUCK? No,we can't afford mislynch for the sake of mislynching. Someone gives red vibes? WE LYNCH HIM. Someone made dumb question once,while Scummy Rats like You run around and we should lynch him? I will drop Treadmill for now,because You're infinitely more scummy than him.
On June 05 2011 15:09 omgCRAZY wrote: With this being a newbies game I wouldn't be surprised that someone wants to get a handle on the game.
What I find interesting is how aprudds was so quick to get everyones attention focused on someone else and how the game has barely started and yet cherubael and Jimboo are already throwing out votes.
His subsequent posts were fishy. Due to that I hopped on the voting bandwagon along with them. Its a 40 player game, I'm sure we can afford a few mislynches. Regardless, we should continue scumhunting. We do have 48 hours.
Yeah,two SHORT posts about his SC2 mafia experience,fishy as heck."I hopped on voting bandwagon" What? Only Scum bandwagons. "I'm sure we can afford a few mislynches" WHAT THE FUCK? No,we can't afford mislynch for the sake of mislynching. Someone gives red vibes? WE LYNCH HIM. Someone made dumb question once,while Scummy Rats like You run around and we should lynch him? I will drop Treadmill for now,because You're infinitely more scummy than him.
The more that you yell, The more attention you get. Keep up the noise, Joe
[/sarcasm]
Even if you are town, and its too early to throw accusations out, you're playing TERRIBLY anti-town. Again, Chill.
Because I draw discussion from terrible freeloader bandwagon? I don't throw accusations out,they've slipped already. Treadmill and Lafali both advocate mislynches and not thinking before lynching. They hopped on bandwagon and they will.
This is actually a very interesting post. As you can see, Kurumi is mis-representing both Lafali and Treadmill. Neither of them "advocate mis-lynches", they simply stated that a mislynch was ok, and even probable. Neither of them are anti-town, and Treadmill is actually playing pro-town.
On June 05 2011 18:28 Sprungjeezy wrote: Kurumi, you come off as a towny that is reading too far into too little. It's important to remember that this game is full of beginners and important to remember people will try to take advantage of that, but people will still make mistakes such as hopping on a bandwagon without really thinking into it.
Time for bed for me though. Cya tomorrow.
No. Scum wants Town to mislynch. Scum wants Town not to think about other suspects. Scum wants to make Town jump on one bandwagon and deny EVERY discussion about anything else. They are doing that,not only but they're advocating that as a good thing.
This is a very true post. That is precisely what scum wants. Its important to note that scum also wants to cause as much chaos in the town as possible as well.
On June 05 2011 18:25 Kurumi wrote: EDWOP: I write "You" with capital Y because I feel like and it is Polish thing. I call Scum/people I am suspicious of Rats. Get over it.
No haiku for this, The point is too short for one. Just a simple note
Do shit like this, you're going to piss people off. Pissing people off is a good way to die. Dying does not help your team at all (at least in this game). You know this, you've played several games. Don't fuck over the newbies because you want to be obnoxious.
As far as your "slips" go:
Lafali, from what I can tell, is a newbie who bandwagonned, read my post warning against bandwagons, and unvoted.
Treadmill: He said we should wait, and every point of evidence is important no matter how small. Great reason to vote him.
Point grew after I wrote the haiku :p
Scum will unvote after someone called it out to remain 'unsuspicious". Also why the heck Town would lynch person generating discussion and bringing scummy suspects? Scum would like to lynch me,but they can just kill me at night.
On June 05 2011 21:40 Kurumi wrote: @Pyo (Pyo voted for Kurumi and pointed out that Kurumi got lynched D1 last game) Because Your arguments are dumb I am going to ignore You. A tip: In mafia XXXIX I was spreading chaos in the Town,also I was really scummy. I wasn't talkative,I was spammy. If You want any meta reads,go check PYPI and PTP.
Pyo calls him out, Kurumi admits to spreading chaos in the town the game before.
[green]Pyo asks Kurumi for a list of "experienced players"
On June 05 2011 22:45 Kurumi wrote: Jackal58 - he is very good GGQ - I think he is there for at least short while Me Impervious from replacements played a bit there too gtrsrs played one game I think.
You're not going to participating in lynching the most scummy player Pyo? While I understand place holder votes You need to know that people like me will remember that. I want to see a good post after You're back.
Jackal58 is good. GGQ is good, borderline very good (no offense Jackal ♥). Vain is good. I'd like to think I'm decent. Impervious is... interesting haha. Kurumi has played 3 games, and Jackal called him out later on. Whats important here is that Kurumi lumps himself in with very good players that town should listen to. He's attempting to establish a position of power for himself.
On June 05 2011 23:20 Kurumi wrote: By the most scummy player I meant Your suspicion. An example of good post would be an analysis pointing out the biggest slips of player X leading Town in a Scum lynch.Remember though: there's nothing wrong about being wrong(unless You're redtooth,then You commit suicide on Day 3) A good post could be summing up who attacked who and who defended who + Your thoughts about it. Everything that generates discussion is good. You must remember though,that without good evidence there's probably no point in bringing something new,because this will cause chaos. Pyo,it is too fast for scum to bus too. Freeloader's situation is really uncertain. His small,but bandwagon is based on shitty evidence. "He asked a question,no townie would ask it!" Think for a second. What would happen if Freeloader was scum? Someone would pm him and tell him everything he needed to know,makes sense? Hell yes. We aren't that vindictive,don't worry <3 But there are players who are magnets,namely Radfield and Kavdragon,who like to die Day/Night 1.
Kurumi hasn't been here that long, but he's clearly read up on his mafia. He knows the names of some older players. He is correct in that all discussion is good discussion, but (IMO)there are certain methods of generating it that do no good to town because they cause too much chaos. Still, point in his favor though.
On June 05 2011 23:53 Kurumi wrote: Bussing is when You vote for lynch/kill Your Mafia buddy to make Yourself less suspicious/earn town cred,mostly happens when there's no way to save him/perform some gambit or wicked trickery. Well,it is rather safe to assume that anyone who got assigned as Godfather is going to help his newbie Mafia bros as fast as possible - he is probably one of the "better" players,but this might be a mislead. Also as far I remember in my PYPI pm I had mafia list and that I can PM them etc. etc.,while it wasn't a "noob game" I strongly believe that there everything a new player should know about his role/alignment.
Not much to say about this. Slightly pro-town I guess? Kinda obvious stuff, but I'm giving people a pass on obvious stuff this game because its a newbie game and so not everything IS obvious.
On June 05 2011 23:20 Kurumi wrote: By the most scummy player I meant Your suspicion. An example of good post would be an analysis pointing out the biggest slips of player X leading Town in a Scum lynch.Remember though: there's nothing wrong about being wrong(unless You're redtooth,then You commit suicide on Day 3) A good post could be summing up who attacked who and who defended who + Your thoughts about it. Everything that generates discussion is good. You must remember though,that without good evidence there's probably no point in bringing something new,because this will cause chaos. Pyo,it is too fast for scum to bus too. Freeloader's situation is really uncertain. His small,but bandwagon is based on shitty evidence. "He asked a question,no townie would ask it!" Think for a second. What would happen if Freeloader was scum? Someone would pm him and tell him everything he needed to know,makes sense? Hell yes. We aren't that vindictive,don't worry <3 But there are players who are magnets,namely Radfield and Kavdragon,who like to die Day/Night 1.
Kurumi, you're talking for the sake of talking and stirring up too many accusations without any discussion or analysis. Talk is good, blind accusations are bad. This makes chaos and makes it hard to focus on one thing at a time. (AGAIN)
There isn't much to go on right now. Here's what happened:
1 guy asked a dumb question. Scum Scale: *---- 3 guys bandwaggonned. Scum Scale: **--- 2-3 people throw around un-called-for accusations. Scum Scale: ***--
Oh, and Pyo called you out on being an ass.
If you are an experienced player like you say, you should know that rapidly throwing out multiple low impact accusations just lead to you getting ignored or lynched :/
@Pyo You need somewhere to get a discussion started. The accusation was arbitrary, but it's the best thing there was after the roles got pmed and before the game started. After everyone starts posting their mind on this there will be a greater pool of posts to look over.
My dumbness meter went over 9000. Before saying "HURR DURR YOU DID NOTHING" read my posts. I brought evidence why I think they're scum.
aprudds (the originator of the whole "Freeloader Debacle") gives a nice, concise analysis of whats gone on in the game, and (in the @Pyo section), explains what his reasoning was for the first accusation. + Show Spoiler [Mini aprudds read] +
IMO, it seems that aprudds and Kurumi actually have similar philosophies, its just that aprudds doesn't piss off as many people along the way.
Kurumi pulls an OMGUS (Oh My God You Suck) and heavily insults aprudds.
On June 06 2011 00:08 Jackal58 wrote: I believe this is Kurumi's 4th game. Maybe counting a mini game. He was lynched day one in the first game I played with him. He has outed himself as our SK in the second game I've played with him. Don't assume he's experienced. He's not.
I played in XXXIX then PYPI then PTP now there.
This is Kurumi's prior experience. Note that in one of these games he was lynched D1.
On June 06 2011 00:30 Kurumi wrote: EDWOP: I meant,let him play by himself,he does not need Your help. The evidence is simple: They support bad lynches,they say that we can waste lynches,they want Town to make quick decision which they didn't think about enough
On June 06 2011 01:27 DeMorcerf wrote:I do not understand what you mean by this, sorry. Can you clarify whether "insane" is a good thing or a bad thing in this context; and what does "tunnel the roster" mean?
Insane as in crazy. Not good at all. Tunneling is when you pick one player and call him/her scum for the entire game.
Kurumi has taken it to an entirely new level.
Sorry but Palmar and RedFF are better at tunneling everyone than me >:C
Tunnelling is still bad -_-. However, I don't think Kurumi is tunnelling this game. He's just accusing everyone who disagrees with him of being scum.
On June 05 2011 15:09 omgCRAZY wrote: With this being a newbies game I wouldn't be surprised that someone wants to get a handle on the game.
What I find interesting is how aprudds was so quick to get everyones attention focused on someone else and how the game has barely started and yet cherubael and Jimboo are already throwing out votes.
His subsequent posts were fishy. Due to that I hopped on the voting bandwagon along with them. Its a 40 player game, I'm sure we can afford a few mislynches. Regardless, we should continue scumhunting. We do have 48 hours.
Yeah,two SHORT posts about his SC2 mafia experience,fishy as heck."I hopped on voting bandwagon" What? Only Scum bandwagons. "I'm sure we can afford a few mislynches" WHAT THE FUCK? No,we can't afford mislynch for the sake of mislynching. Someone gives red vibes? WE LYNCH HIM. Someone made dumb question once,while Scummy Rats like You run around and we should lynch him? I will drop Treadmill for now,because You're infinitely more scummy than him.
I'm new to mafia forum games like this and mostly used to smaller and faster-paced ones where taking a risk on a mislynch is pretty common as long as the game is not mislynch-lose. The subsequent posts from treadmill seemed fishy and people started to vote for him and at that point he was the only one looking suspicious to me. However, after reading more into the thread it seemed like a bad idea to vote so early, and it would be better to wait for any tells, and then on day two, cop reports.
Treadmill is suspicious to You? You both are doing the same thing. Also thanks for excuse,I enjoy eating them. Because they're yummy. Why would DT report on Day 2? It is an easy target for Mafia,even when med protected they can just stack on him. Why are You spreading bad ideas?
Kurumi points out that DTs shouldn't report on D2 since mafia can stack kills. This is an excellent point - DTs should wait until they have something useful to report before revealing themselves. I don't understand the first half of this post, so I'm ignoring it lol.
UPDATED LIST plz ignore the previous one, credits to morcerf <3
this list doesn't tell anything about the people on the list... Maybe they're just lurking like I was. You can delete me from that list btw.
This post can be treated like it never happened,You know? What are Your thoughts on freeloader bandwagon? Who's Your scum suspect #1?
Asking questions, its been a bit since he last posted an opinion of his own (aside from other people are "Rats"). Nothing really here.+ Show Spoiler [Tiny supersoft read here] +
Admitting to lurking and doing nothing but saying 'hey look I'm not lurking' is terrible.
UPDATED LIST plz ignore the previous one, credits to morcerf <3
this list doesn't tell anything about the people on the list... Maybe they're just lurking like I was. You can delete me from that list btw.
This post can be treated like it never happened,You know? What are Your thoughts on freeloader bandwagon? Who's Your scum suspect #1?
I don't have a scum suspect on day1. It's too early to judge anyone. It's just not reasonable to randomlynch someone in the first round, before we got to know each other a little bit.
We can't no lynch. There needs to be a lynch every Day.
True.
And thats the last post he made. It may be time related. That was ~10 hours ago, possibly sleeping.
So, what can we take from all this?
Kurumi is a very aggressive player known for causing chaos. He has cast suspicion on many people, mostly those who argued with him. He has also thrown in some genuinely Pro-town things into his posting. Its very difficult to make a final call, but...
I believe that Kurumi is Scum. In my opinion, his Pro-town points were thrown in at random or very obvious to remove suspicion from him. However, I must take into account that I may have been biased, as well as his pro-town things. Because of this, I do not advocate a Kurumi Lynch D1. Instead, I think that Kurumi should be our prime DT target. Knowledge of his alignment will undoubtedly help us determine who is scum and who is town.
GGQ, Jackal, Vain, I'd particularly appreciate it if you would weigh in here.
To new players, this is a complete, thorough analysis of a player. You don't have to do things like this. But you'll be a much better player if you do, even if you don't post it (there are times not to, like if you realize someone is a DT or Medic). Go forth and analyze!
Kurumi looks fine to me. Mafia tend to lay low and bandwagon, Kurumi is definitely fearless for Mafia.
UPDATED LIST plz ignore the previous one, credits to morcerf <3
this list doesn't tell anything about the people on the list... Maybe they're just lurking like I was. You can delete me from that list btw.
This post can be treated like it never happened,You know? What are Your thoughts on freeloader bandwagon? Who's Your scum suspect #1?
Asking questions, its been a bit since he last posted an opinion of his own (aside from other people are "Rats"). Nothing really here.+ Show Spoiler [Tiny supersoft read here] +
Admitting to lurking and doing nothing but saying 'hey look I'm not lurking' is terrible.
He isn't lurking, he's just been demolishing half the potential mafia population.
On June 05 2011 15:09 omgCRAZY wrote: With this being a newbies game I wouldn't be surprised that someone wants to get a handle on the game.
What I find interesting is how aprudds was so quick to get everyones attention focused on someone else and how the game has barely started and yet cherubael and Jimboo are already throwing out votes.
His subsequent posts were fishy. Due to that I hopped on the voting bandwagon along with them. Its a 40 player game, I'm sure we can afford a few mislynches. Regardless, we should continue scumhunting. We do have 48 hours.
Yeah,two SHORT posts about his SC2 mafia experience,fishy as heck."I hopped on voting bandwagon" What? Only Scum bandwagons. "I'm sure we can afford a few mislynches" WHAT THE FUCK? No,we can't afford mislynch for the sake of mislynching. Someone gives red vibes? WE LYNCH HIM. Someone made dumb question once,while Scummy Rats like You run around and we should lynch him? I will drop Treadmill for now,because You're infinitely more scummy than him.
The more that you yell, The more attention you get. Keep up the noise, Joe
[/sarcasm]
Even if you are town, and its too early to throw accusations out, you're playing TERRIBLY anti-town. Again, Chill.
Because I draw discussion from terrible freeloader bandwagon? I don't throw accusations out,they've slipped already. Treadmill and Lafali both advocate mislynches and not thinking before lynching. They hopped on bandwagon and they will.
This is actually a very interesting post. As you can see, Kurumi is mis-representing both Lafali and Treadmill. Neither of them "advocate mis-lynches", they simply stated that a mislynch was ok, and even probable. Neither of them are anti-town, and Treadmill is actually playing pro-town.
They were happy to vote for someone as soon as they were accused. FreeLoader had barely done anything, yet they were both happy to destroy him. Freeloader will probably now die if you look at the Voting Thread. If he turns up town, I'd be very suspicious of those two.
On June 06 2011 16:04 gtrsrs wrote: here is my scum hunt you post haiku's in a game where posting anything more than necessary is distracting and derailing you try to find the town's blues so that the mafia can know what they're up against the one thing that the town has as an advantage is that the mafia doesn't know our PRs and here you are spelling the info out for them
even if you're not mafia, your two biggest contributions so far are anti-town
everyone i encourage you to ##vote: iGrok and watch how he (and others) react as the votes pile up. putting the pressure on someone is a good way to find mafia. watch the people that come to defend him and how they do so and then when he flips red, go after them next
Okay, this is not an analysis. Everyone please note how bad this is.
But as a refutation,
I posted haikus because I wanted to, and every single one had a purpose. I did not try to find out the town's blues. I tried to guess the setup. This helps town out just as much as it helps scum out, if not more so. If you disagree, I want to know why, in explicit detail. Mafia doesn't know who is what PR, or even how many - they can only guess, same as me. Same point as above.
If you count both of those as my only two contributions, I'll be able to simply ignore you as a terrile player. The analysis of Kurumi, and holding town together from fracturing immediately should also be in there. As well as explaining several concepts for the newer players.
On June 06 2011 16:11 gtrsrs wrote: in fact i think kurumi is doing the right thing. we have nothing to go on on day 1. there are a lot of inexperienced players. lots of times if a new player is mafia and you insinuate that they're mafia they get really defensive. even if they know that you're accusing everyone, new players can slip up when you get around to accusing them. so i think kurumi is just trying to shake out some baddie mafias.
I went through your post history - when exactly have you played before? I know you're big in the LoL subforum, but all I could find regarding mafia was as a replacement in SNMM3 and a late /in for Newbie Mini Mafia I. Just curious because you're acting like you have some knowledge of how newbies play vs how experienced people play.
note, town, how now that i am FoSing iGrok more publicly, he's attempting to discredit me as he starts to panic. even though he LITERALLY just told you to not let kurumi sheep you and use experience as a reason to put him in a position of power, he's now going to attempt to do the exact same thing. classic sheeping attempt here, he points out that i'm not a well-known figure on the mafia sub-forum. good play is good play, you don't have to be an experienced player to pick up on a scumtell. but iGrok is going to call me a bad player and pretend to ignore me. notice how he will now try to shift the attention of the town elsewhere - probably by using a 9000-character post again on an "analysis" of someone else
don't fall for his passive-aggressive tricks, town
On June 06 2011 16:04 gtrsrs wrote: here is my scum hunt you post haiku's in a game where posting anything more than necessary is distracting and derailing you try to find the town's blues so that the mafia can know what they're up against the one thing that the town has as an advantage is that the mafia doesn't know our PRs and here you are spelling the info out for them
even if you're not mafia, your two biggest contributions so far are anti-town
everyone i encourage you to ##vote: iGrok and watch how he (and others) react as the votes pile up. putting the pressure on someone is a good way to find mafia. watch the people that come to defend him and how they do so and then when he flips red, go after them next
Okay, this is not an analysis. Everyone please note how bad this is.
But as a refutation,
I posted haikus because I wanted to, and every single one had a purpose. I did not try to find out the town's blues. I tried to guess the setup. This helps town out just as much as it helps scum out, if not more so. If you disagree, I want to know why, in explicit detail. Mafia doesn't know who is what PR, or even how many - they can only guess, same as me. Same point as above.
If you count both of those as my only two contributions, I'll be able to simply ignore you as a terrile player. The analysis of Kurumi, and holding town together from fracturing immediately should also be in there. As well as explaining several concepts for the newer players.
On June 06 2011 16:11 gtrsrs wrote: in fact i think kurumi is doing the right thing. we have nothing to go on on day 1. there are a lot of inexperienced players. lots of times if a new player is mafia and you insinuate that they're mafia they get really defensive. even if they know that you're accusing everyone, new players can slip up when you get around to accusing them. so i think kurumi is just trying to shake out some baddie mafias.
I went through your post history - when exactly have you played before? I know you're big in the LoL subforum, but all I could find regarding mafia was as a replacement in SNMM3 and a late /in for Newbie Mini Mafia I. Just curious because you're acting like you have some knowledge of how newbies play vs how experienced people play.
note, town, how now that i am FoSing iGrok more publicly, he's attempting to discredit me as he starts to panic. even though he LITERALLY just told you to not let kurumi sheep you and use experience as a reason to put him in a position of power, he's now going to attempt to do the exact same thing. classic sheeping attempt here, he points out that i'm not a well-known figure on the mafia sub-forum. good play is good play, you don't have to be an experienced player to pick up on a scumtell. but iGrok is going to call me a bad player and pretend to ignore me. notice how he will now try to shift the attention of the town elsewhere - probably by using a 9000-character post again on an "analysis" of someone else
don't fall for his passive-aggressive tricks, town
Nice OMGUS, bro. You have a habit of responding only to one thing in a post. You should probably change that, not just for this game but for all of them.
Anyways, the last thing I'm going to say regarding this (unless you keep up the smear campaign [or answer my points]) is that I said Kurumi is trying to use experience he doesn't have to get into power by associating himself with those who do. Personally, I think Jackal58, GGQ, or Vain would be great people to look up to and have confidence in - they're all pretty experienced and -good- players. Whomever among them we can confirm/be reasonably certain is town should be looked up to.
And just FTR, it wasn't 9,000 characters. It was 26,088 characters. Lets see you put that kind of effort into a post, eh?
EBWOP: The reason is because those are by far the three strongest players in this game, and it simply wouldn't be fair. Hosts are supposed to randomize teams, but they have some responsibility to ensure a fair and balanced game.
On June 06 2011 16:44 gtrsrs wrote: note, town, how now that i am FoSing iGrok more publicly, he's attempting to discredit me as he starts to panic.
On June 06 2011 16:55 iGrok wrote: Nice OMGUS, bro. You have a habit of responding only to one thing in a post.You should probably change that, not just for this game but for all of them.
On June 06 2011 16:44 gtrsrs wrote: even though he LITERALLY just told you to not let kurumi sheep you and use experience as a reason to put him in a position of power, he's now going to attempt to do the exact same thing. classic sheeping attempt here, he points out that i'm not a well-known figure on the mafia sub-forum.
On June 06 2011 16:55 iGrok wrote: is that I said Kurumi is trying to use experience he doesn't have to get into power by associating himself with those who do.
On June 06 2011 16:44 gtrsrs wrote: good play is good play, you don't have to be an experienced player to pick up on a scumtell.but iGrok is going to call me a bad player and pretend to ignore me.
On June 06 2011 16:55 iGrok wrote: Anyways, the last thing I'm going to say regarding this (unless you keep up the smear campaign [or answer my points])
...
Personally, I think Jackal58, GGQ, or Vain would be great people to look up to and have confidence in - they're all pretty experienced and -good- players.
On June 06 2011 16:44 gtrsrs wrote: don't fall for his passive-aggressive tricks, town
On June 06 2011 16:55 iGrok wrote: And just FTR, it wasn't 9,000 characters. It was 26,088 characters. Lets see you put that kind of effort into a post, eh?
i don't need to say much here, iGrok pretty much said it all for me put some pressure on him town!
EPT
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/fWwZu.jpg)
