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On June 06 2011 18:06 Pyo wrote:
After reading the posts up to now, I am reasonably confident that freeloader is probably a townie and the ambiguity of early accusers and their motivations means that there's not much to be learned from lynching him, although it might be inevitable at this point. Since his post in his defense haven't really been all that constructive anyway it isn't really a big loss, so I'm not gonna fight it.
The players that I find annoying are by far Haiku boy and Kurumi. So if ever I'm undecided about who to vote for it'll probably be one of them.
I think it is interesting to note all the little 1v1 bickering going on, the most recent example of which is between iGrok and gtrsrs. I think it is reasonable to assume that two mafia wouldn't orchestrate a mini feud this early on, which means that either both are town or only one is town.
So combining my last 2 paragraphs, I think I'm gonna have to change my vote to iGrok.
See my previous post on annoying players.
If you are going to approach this game as an exercise in the elimination of those that annoy you I will be more than happy to arrange for your lynching. We're not here to lynch people that annoy us. We're here to kill scum. Put your ego in a box and get your head in the game please. You'll probably find me to be much more annoying than iGrok. And I don't do haiku.
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I just read through the whole thread, it looks like people started more useful posts later on, reading through pages 8-17 was a chore.
I think it is established that freeloader625's question is not a scum tell, as GGQ told us that they have a "quick topic" and would know if he was scum.
Treadmill, Jimboo, cherubael and Lafali were a bit too eager, maybe one of them is mafia but I don't think all of them. I also don't know why Treadmill was singled out from all of them, he was the first one to vote and give a half good explanation, Jimboo and cheru said we shouldn't be too hasty and then still voted for freeloader.
I definitely think that Kurumi's hyperactive style is not helpful, he also didn't answer any of iGrok's allegations.
I actually don't know who I should vote for today, I don't think that I can actually vote for someone thinking he is more scummy than 1/5 probability.
I will vote for Monsterdrakar because his reason for voting theawesomeall (Lists of inactives are bad) is stupid and I think that contributing should not be met with pointless allegations.
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Hey Jackal, good to see you again. Mind going over my Kurumi analysis?
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I think now that iGrok has stopped posting haiku's he/she is actually useful and his/her analysis of kurumi might not based on much (It is just too early), but it is at least trying to do some analysis.
I don't see him/her as particularly scummy.
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On June 06 2011 21:57 iGrok wrote:
Hey Jackal, good to see you again. Mind going over my Kurumi analysis?
I couldn't analyze Kurumi to save my life. We need a psychiatrist for that.
He is playing identically to the other two games I have had the pleasure of being in with him.
His posts do at times contain substance but it's very hard to pick out from all the background noise.
I think our best bet with him is to watch his voting history. He will eventually call all of us scum before this game is over so his FoS posts are pretty much useless.
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On June 06 2011 22:40 Jackal58 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2011 21:57 iGrok wrote:
Hey Jackal, good to see you again. Mind going over my Kurumi analysis? I couldn't analyze Kurumi to save my life. We need a psychiatrist for that. He is playing identically to the other two games I have had the pleasure of being in with him. His posts do at times contain substance but it's very hard to pick out from all the background noise. I think our best bet with him is to watch his voting history. He will eventually call all of us scum before this game is over so his FoS posts are pretty much useless.
Lol. Perhaps I should've done someone else then. Ah well, never played with him before so I didn't know. Moving forward! For Aiur!
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GRAND OLD AMERICA16375 Posts
On June 06 2011 21:57 iGrok wrote:
Hey Jackal, good to see you again. Mind going over my Kurumi analysis?
As his post concerning kurumi 's behavior had helped, i am concerned with this statement. iGrok has listed a couple of seasoned players whom he reconizes for their experiences, but here he is already jumping to the conclusion that he had no reason to suspect them, especially jackal whom only made a post spectulating.
It seems to be that iGrok is quite convinced that kurumi is a scum as he already asked for a dt check rather than trust the dts to make the right decisions.
About jackal, i do not know much about him as he has not stated a lot yet, but iGrok is showing us that he is in league with jackal as from the podt above.
As of now, i do not want to label iGrok as scum, and i'd rather wait until later to see what jackal says and how the game flows, but iGrok is still suspicious. If iGrok is convicted as scum, then that puts pressure on jackal to respond.
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On June 06 2011 21:47 Xedat wrote:
I just read through the whole thread, it looks like people started more useful posts later on, reading through pages 8-17 was a chore.
I think it is established that freeloader625's question is not a scum tell, as GGQ told us that they have a "quick topic" and would know if he was scum.
I agree as far as his original question is concerned, but his responses to being suspected seem really weird. Especially his last one, he's not posting for a while, gets called out by CjrNinja + Show Spoiler +On June 06 2011 13:25 CjrNinja wrote:
I do agree with you that Freeloader should be a little (read: lot) more active considering the accusations against him (Maybe MLG is taking precedence?). Speak up Freeloader, we want to hear what you have to say.
On June 06 2011 14:21 freeloader625 wrote:It's true. I spent most of the weekend watching MLG, both streams. I was keeping an eye on this for all mirror matches though, I just chose not to comment. Show nested quote +On June 06 2011 12:54 CjrNinja wrote:I can't confirm what the actual role PM said for mafia members. But looking back through this thread I did find: On May 30 2011 01:33 Varpulis wrote:On May 30 2011 00:34 blackone wrote:On May 29 2011 06:47 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:
PMs
PMs are not allowed in this game.
This confuses me because from the other Mafia threads I read I feel that PMs are a pretty important part of the game. In particular, how is the scum supposed to operate without PMs? To clarify: The no PMs rule does not apply to scum. They are still allowed to communicate outside of the thread. Town aligned and third party roles must keep everything inside the thread, however, for the sake of balance and to keep the game fun for everybody. So it's already been addressed during the signup stage. Freeloader was probably just lazy and didn't read through the entire thread. Yes, I'm ashamed to admit I let pages 2-8 or 9 go without reading it, I assumed it was all just full of "/in's." I only read the first post and posts since the game has officially started. Show nested quote +On June 06 2011 13:17 DeMorcerf wrote:On June 06 2011 12:47 Treadmill wrote:+ Show Spoiler +One really big point - if you're going to quote a really long post it'd be great if you could put it in spoiler tags (just a formatting issue but helps to clean up the page a fair bit). Meaning you, iGrok.
@CjrNinja
Can you confirm that the role PM for mafia members spells out that mafia can communicate by PM? If this is true than obviously mafia wouldn't post that question and I'll change my vote from freeloader. Otherwise, though, he seems even more scummy to me now. I didn't vote for him cause he asked a silly question, it was how he replied to scrutiny. Since then, he hasn't posted in the thread at all. And I can confirm that he's been on TL - check his post history, he's posted a whole bunch in today's MLG live report. Either he's scum and waiting for suspicion to die down or he's town and has given up and resigned himself to getting lynched. Or he simply cannot extract himself from the excitement that is MLG, I know I couldn't for most of this weekend. I think that the reasoning that has come forth from some of the experienced players should convince us to leave freeloader for now and concentrate on others --- I agree with Alderan's suspicions of Amazingxkcd (posts that just repeat the description of the game) and Grush57 (confusing contradictions) and the strange hasty back and forth behavior of Jimboo pointed out by TranceStorm. On June 06 2011 11:43 redFF wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On June 06 2011 11:23 GMarshal wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2011 11:18 iGrok wrote:On June 06 2011 11:13 aprudds wrote:On June 06 2011 11:11 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:On June 06 2011 10:32 iGrok wrote:Mod Check Please I didn't catch it in time to see the original. I think flamewheel can see this sort of thing so I'll ask him. Because this is a noobies game I'll let you go with just a warning but the next time ANYONE does this they die, no exceptions. You've been warned I already reported it and the mod told me it was a typo fix. Lets get one thing clear here - do not Report anything to TL mods that isn't a direct violation of the TL Commandments (excluding spam - spam is legal here). We police ourselves, and only call in the authorities when we need them. Report to the Mod of your game, or Qatol if you have a problem with Mod. This. We self moderate. For the love of god, don't use the report button in this subforum. qft -___________- I quote this to point of that redFF's only post in the game is just this one-liner spam. Perhaps he is too busy in his other mafia game to contribute something more useful to his post, but then he should have waited until he had more time to post. Ohhh dirtay! I didn't not realize outside posts were fair game for this! I was under the impression (initially) that you can't click on ppls profiles/outside posts to avoid cheating or w/e. But I guess that's fair game. What do I honestly think and why haven't I really commented even though I threw myself under the bus? I'll give a longer explanation come closer to Day 1's end. Har har har, another "bad defensive" post by me :D Take it as you may.
which is basically
1) Excuses for lurking
2) Claiming he didn't knew that checking a players post history was fair game
3) Claiming that he has some long explanation for his defense, that he is going to post at some point in the future.
While 2) is another very defensive reaction to being accused of lurking, 3) is the one that makes this whole post sound scummy to me, it seems like he can't defend himself at that point and wants to do so later, but sees the need for an immediate response. Why would he post something like that instead of either posting something to defend himself or posting nothing at all? (Especially since at the time he says he's going to post [closer to Day 1's end] nothing will have changed. Except the focus of the town may be on someone else.)
I think his post didn't get a lot of attention because the whole iGrok/gtrsrs/kurumi thing started to go off one post later, or does anybody else just think he is a townie that feels pressured and doesn't know what to say?
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Of everything posted so far in this thread so far, the only useful bit of info is the first part of iGrok's analysis regarding the possible distribution of roles. I'm sure that all posts from Day1 will become invaluable as the game progresses and a lot of analysis will be done based on them, but for now they mean nothing. As far as I am concerned even if someone publicly declares themselves Godfather they still have a 20% of being mafia. Random lynch is random lynch.
I see that I have managed to draw some votes for myself - which is always welcome. The interesting thing is that several people in here have said my voting of TheAwesomeAll is not legitimate because they cannot understand my argument.
I don't really know how to respond to that. I feel that I made myself pretty clear. Do I need to use over 26000 characters to get a simple point across? If you really don't understand it you are either not very smart or are I just hit a nerve and you are trying to protect your scum buddy. Seriously, I have no problem with people disagreeing with me, but they don't really disagree, they state that they don't understand my argument. Here are some examples.
supersoft
+ Show Spoiler +voted for him because he voted against theawesomeall with a poor reason. I think theawesomeall -with his list - is obviously a scary player for mafiosi and other people that don't want to be in the spotlight.
CjrNinja
+ Show Spoiler + He made a list, and he’s checking it twice. No big deal, a good way to keep track of people who haven’t contributed much, if anything
Xedat
+ Show Spoiler +I will vote for Monsterdrakar because his reason for voting theawesomeall (Lists of inactives are bad) is stupid and I think that contributing should not be met with pointless allegations.
Now here is the edited version of my argument against TheAwesomeAll.
What happened?
12 hours after the start of the game the player in question makes a post including a list with innactives. At that time a large portion of the players have not even seen the thread. The posted list itself is not accurate, even after being updated once.
What has the player done for himself?
He has made himself appear useful, even helpful to the town. Is he really? Even if we ignore the facts that it was way too early for such kind of a list and the list itself was not accurate at all, you cant ignore the fact that a list with innactives is useless in its very nature - innactives will be modkilled. End of story. Here is a fake quote illustrating the situation - "Hey guys, see this awesome list I made, I took the time and I made and effort to contribute, unlike those other bad innactives".
Why did I vote for that player?
I vote for TheAwesomeAll because he has made a fake contribution to the thread, with which he is trying to demonstrate a pro-town behavior. It seems like he managed to decieve some people that he was really helping. Or are they his mafia buddies looking out for him? Interesting question....
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On June 06 2011 21:31 supersoft wrote:
guys this is getting really complicated with these XXL posts :D
i'll draw a mindmap of all this when i am at home. when does the night beginn?
(typing this from my iphone)
Is posting lengthy analytical posts something uncommon and wrong to this type of game?
The following is written in a format where gtrsrs is the direct audience but for everyone to consider:
+ Show Spoiler +On June 06 2011 17:45 gtrsrs wrote:
freeloader is obvious town
but everyone is bandwagoning on him
we need to get some votes on other people. it's a psychological thing. if you see that everyone has voted for freeloader you're going to vote for him too so you don't look fishy. if there are some votes spread around you're more likely to vote for someone you think is actually mafia
i initially FoS'd iGrok because of the haiku thing and his horribly pretentious posts. i felt like they were derailing the thread and i didn't have a good read on anyone else
after he tried to incriminate kurumi who is being extremely pro-town, i double my suspicions that iGrok is the mafia we want. he's trying to use pretty formatting to make it look like his wild guess is better than anyone else's wild guess - he's intentionally trying to mislead the town. i got a lucky guess and FoS'd the right guy, it's quite clear. don't believe me? help me pressure him and watch him crack
fishing for blues is scummy, he's setting a bad example. i don't see how public knowledge of how many blues there (could be) are could ever help the town. he's doing the mafia's job for them, right in front of our eyes.
i don't have a personal vendetta by any means. in fact, you'll notice it's he who is trying to minimize me in the eyes of the other townies by pointing out that i'm not "experienced" on TL mafia, and blatantly calling my posts bad.
gtrsrs, I cannot disagree with you more. I do not take Kurumi's abrasive and chaotic tone and posts (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=9636913) as "extremely pro-town" but as distracting and anti-town. How does throwing out abrasive and crude accusations like candy at Halloween help the town focus in on mafia? The only thing Kurumi has succeeded in doing from where I sit is cause me to distrust him by his attitude; that is to say, if this were battle.net's Mafia I would say screw the game and lynch Kurumi for being so distasteful, but it's not and we need to be more discerning than that and I can only hope that Kurumi becomes more considerate and analytical and less emotional.
Please stop repeating your accusation at iGrok of "fishing for blues". He is not trying to fish out or hunt down and expose any town power roles. He never did.
What he has done is given us posts guiding newer players in how town should think and act to succeed. (in posts like this one for an example)
He has given us a fair analysis of the likely setup and state of the game. Something I'm certain any mafia would be discussing amongst themselves since the start. Sure, you're right the mafia wants to know how many medics and cops there are, but the town needs to have some idea in the back of their minds too. Either way, its still a mystery to everyone, but iGrok is providing players new to TL Mafia with an idea of how typical TL games are set up.
(Also, as Treadmill noted (not that I trust him), but if iGrok has experience you aren't going to get him to break down in "A Few Good Men"-Jack Nicholson-style by pressuring him with your votes.)
As for yourself,
+ Show Spoiler +On June 05 2011 13:35 gtrsrs wrote:
west west y'all
i'm out for the night to my girlfriend's house but i'll be back on tomorrow to analyze the shit out of your posts and scumhunt like a bloodhound The game had literally just started so I'm not sure I see the purpose in this having been posted.
+ Show Spoiler +On June 06 2011 03:44 gtrsrs wrote:hi everyone i'm back my thoughts so far: - jesus christ, 7 pages of nothing - freeloader asked an innocuous question that was stupid but not scummy IMO in fact he made it quite clear the reasons he was asking: Show nested quote +On June 05 2011 12:44 freeloader625 wrote:
Omg I'm so excited for this. I read all the rules twice and just want to ask to anyone willing to answer (before the game starts) since these were not answered in the thread rules:
1) Since PMs are not allowed, how would mafia communicate with each other?
2) Once someone dies whether it be by votes or mafia hit, will their roles be revealed?
and then everyone ignored the fact that he asked another innocuous question too. clinging to false evidence ITT? - unfortunately it looks like a slip so i can see him getting lynched today - if he flips town, we'll need to re-evaluate the people who pushed for his lynch - dude who keeps posting haikus, please stop, that's thread derailment and very scummy. i can't even read your posts. i do not think there are any posting restrictions so only post what you HAVE to - that being said, i'm going to vote for you because i don't want to jump on the freeloader bandwagon (nor do i want to try and counterbandwagon onto aprudds for calling him out) - voting in this thread is not scummy, whoever said that. voting in this thread helps us keep track of bandwagons and reasoning behind votes. please vote in this thread when you vote in the voting thread. - there are too many posts in this thread. you probably don't have anything to say at this point. don't post for posting's sake. when you do post, please make long, well-thought-out posts. short posts derail the thread. i think one of the pages had like 10 one-line posts and that's not acceptable. it allows mafia to "blend in" with the town by posting similarly. - posts that have words but don't say anything are scummy - kurumi is naturally an annoying, accusatory spammer, don't read into it too much  (also no offense to kurumi) - from what i've seen of his play in other games, jackal is a strong player. don't let his abrasive personality cloud your mind from his usually very-informative, rational posts. at the same time, please use your own judgment when reading his posts and decide for yourself if you come to the same conclusions. if he is mafia he will use his "upstandingness" to sheep us around. ##vote: iGrok
This was a fairly helpful townie post, I suppose. You suggest that we read Jackal carefully as he is informative/experienced (I'm not sure when Jackal was ever abrasive as you suggest, maybe in other games?), and warn us to letting experienced players sheep us. Yet, you tell us to post votes in this thread when the opening rules tell us specifically to vote "only" in the voting thread.
However, it's odd to compare this post with your later ones. Here you complain about the previous posts being short one-liners and then you more recently use the fact that iGrok does the opposite of posting lengthy in-depth posts as a reason he is scummy... ?
On June 06 2011 04:59 gtrsrs wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2011 04:34 Pyo wrote:
So how common is it for townies to vote for/ lynch day1 people that they just don't like or find annoying? I mean in the face no real evidence for or against anyone is it worth it to eliminate inactive or annoying players? i have a reason Show nested quote +On June 06 2011 04:49 GGQ wrote:
You didn't actually mention iGrok in your post, but you voted for him. More explaining please? i most certainly did Show nested quote +On June 06 2011 03:44 gtrsrs wrote:
- dude who keeps posting haikus, please stop, that's thread derailment and very scummy. i can't even read your posts. i do not think there are any posting restrictions so only post what you HAVE to
- that being said, i'm going to vote for you because i don't want to jump on the freeloader bandwagon (nor do i want to try and counterbandwagon onto aprudds for calling him out)
##vote: iGrok
... Was that a worthwhile post with "more explaining please?", GGQ was looking for clarification and further logic, but you just ignored him and acted as if it was completely unnecessary.
On June 06 2011 15:31 gtrsrs wrote:
for the record, fishing for blues is scummy
you're still my prime FoS, iGrok, no matter how long your post is
This exemplifies what I was referring to previously.
On June 06 2011 16:04 gtrsrs wrote:
here is my scum hunt
you post haiku's in a game where posting anything more than necessary is distracting and derailing
you try to find the town's blues so that the mafia can know what they're up against
the one thing that the town has as an advantage is that the mafia doesn't know our PRs and here you are spelling the info out for them
even if you're not mafia, your two biggest contributions so far are anti-town
everyone i encourage you to ##vote: iGrok and watch how he (and others) react as the votes pile up. putting the pressure on someone is a good way to find mafia. watch the people that come to defend him and how they do so and then when he flips red, go after them next
Are you that annoyed with iGrok or did you just not read All of his posts carefully and with an open-mind? Those are not his only two biggest contributions as I stated above. The mafia does know what the roles are, they are on page one, and the mafia is certainly discussing the likely number of each role as iGrok did for the town's benefit (when I have played any mafia game, I always play with a role list open somewhere on the screen to keep constant track; this is helpful info).
I really wish we could stop arguing about his haiku, they were an amusing change of pace, distraction maybe, but they actually were related to his discussions as opening summaries and he stopped when asked to do so.
You are asking for a bandwagon on him?
On June 06 2011 16:11 gtrsrs wrote:
in fact i think kurumi is doing the right thing. we have nothing to go on on day 1. there are a lot of inexperienced players. lots of times if a new player is mafia and you insinuate that they're mafia they get really defensive. even if they know that you're accusing everyone, new players can slip up when you get around to accusing them. so i think kurumi is just trying to shake out some baddie mafias.
I understand your reasoning here, and it's not bad. But I think the chaotic and rude nature of Kurumi in the end is more harmful with so many new players than it is helpful because those new players are not likely to know how to react or trust any slips that come out. The way Kurumi went about it, just doesn't seem helpful in any manner to me because his posts just grated me more than anything else.
+ Show Spoiler +On June 06 2011 16:44 gtrsrs wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2011 16:20 iGrok wrote:On June 06 2011 16:04 gtrsrs wrote:
here is my scum hunt
you post haiku's in a game where posting anything more than necessary is distracting and derailing
you try to find the town's blues so that the mafia can know what they're up against
the one thing that the town has as an advantage is that the mafia doesn't know our PRs and here you are spelling the info out for them
even if you're not mafia, your two biggest contributions so far are anti-town
everyone i encourage you to ##vote: iGrok and watch how he (and others) react as the votes pile up. putting the pressure on someone is a good way to find mafia. watch the people that come to defend him and how they do so and then when he flips red, go after them next Okay, this is not an analysis. Everyone please note how bad this is.But as a refutation, I posted haikus because I wanted to, and every single one had a purpose. I did not try to find out the town's blues. I tried to guess the setup. This helps town out just as much as it helps scum out, if not more so. If you disagree, I want to know why, in explicit detail.Mafia doesn't know who is what PR, or even how many - they can only guess, same as me. Same point as above. If you count both of those as my only two contributions, I'll be able to simply ignore you as a terrile player. The analysis of Kurumi, and holding town together from fracturing immediately should also be in there. As well as explaining several concepts for the newer players. On June 06 2011 16:11 gtrsrs wrote:
in fact i think kurumi is doing the right thing. we have nothing to go on on day 1. there are a lot of inexperienced players. lots of times if a new player is mafia and you insinuate that they're mafia they get really defensive. even if they know that you're accusing everyone, new players can slip up when you get around to accusing them. so i think kurumi is just trying to shake out some baddie mafias. I went through your post history - when exactly have you played before? I know you're big in the LoL subforum, but all I could find regarding mafia was as a replacement in SNMM3 and a late /in for Newbie Mini Mafia I. Just curious because you're acting like you have some knowledge of how newbies play vs how experienced people play. note, town, how now that i am FoSing iGrok more publicly, he's attempting to discredit me as he starts to panic. even though he LITERALLY just told you to not let kurumi sheep you and use experience as a reason to put him in a position of power, he's now going to attempt to do the exact same thing. classic sheeping attempt here, he points out that i'm not a well-known figure on the mafia sub-forum. good play is good play, you don't have to be an experienced player to pick up on a scumtell. but iGrok is going to call me a bad player and pretend to ignore me. notice how he will now try to shift the attention of the town elsewhere - probably by using a 9000-character post again on an "analysis" of someone else don't fall for his passive-aggressive tricks, town
I didn't sense iGrok being either aggressive, tricky or passive-aggressive. Maybe I'm missing it, maybe it's a result of your frame of reference since you two are arguing over his and Kurumi's statements. Haha, 9000, what has that DBZ meme done to the world of exaggeration, but again not so long ago you said that posts should be long and helpful not short empty nothingness, but now that you're in a spitting-match logic is out the window?
+ Show Spoiler +On June 06 2011 17:03 gtrsrs wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2011 16:44 gtrsrs wrote:
note, town, how now that i am FoSing iGrok more publicly, he's attempting to discredit me as he starts to panic. Show nested quote +On June 06 2011 16:55 iGrok wrote:
Nice OMGUS, bro. You have a habit of responding only to one thing in a post. You should probably change that, not just for this game but for all of them.
Show nested quote +On June 06 2011 16:44 gtrsrs wrote:
even though he LITERALLY just told you to not let kurumi sheep you and use experience as a reason to put him in a position of power, he's now going to attempt to do the exact same thing. classic sheeping attempt here, he points out that i'm not a well-known figure on the mafia sub-forum. Show nested quote +On June 06 2011 16:55 iGrok wrote:
is that I said Kurumi is trying to use experience he doesn't have to get into power by associating himself with those who do. Show nested quote +On June 06 2011 16:44 gtrsrs wrote:
good play is good play, you don't have to be an experienced player to pick up on a scumtell.but iGrok is going to call me a bad player and pretend to ignore me. Show nested quote +On June 06 2011 16:55 iGrok wrote:
Anyways, the last thing I'm going to say regarding this (unless you keep up the smear campaign [or answer my points])
...
Personally, I think Jackal58, GGQ, or Vain would be great people to look up to and have confidence in - they're all pretty experienced and -good- players. Show nested quote +On June 06 2011 16:44 gtrsrs wrote:
don't fall for his passive-aggressive tricks, town Show nested quote +On June 06 2011 16:55 iGrok wrote:
And just FTR, it wasn't 9,000 characters. It was 26,088 characters. Lets see you put that kind of effort into a post, eh? i don't need to say much here, iGrok pretty much said it all for me put some pressure on him town!
Is this an empty post that just promotes this bandwagon you are trying to form?
I'm not saying you are mafia, gtrsrs, I'm just saying I disagree with you and think your witch-hunt against iGrok is off-base. I'm finding you more suspicious than him. I do think it is likely one of you, kurumi, or maybe iGrok is a scum, but I think its more likely you and/or kurumi. Maybe I'm off-base, if so no doubt we'll get to read contrary analysis and arguments soon.
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On June 06 2011 22:52 amazingxkcd wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2011 21:57 iGrok wrote:
Hey Jackal, good to see you again. Mind going over my Kurumi analysis? As his post concerning kurumi 's behavior had helped, i am concerned with this statement. iGrok has listed a couple of seasoned players whom he reconizes for their experiences, but here he is already jumping to the conclusion that he had no reason to suspect them, especially jackal whom only made a post spectulating. It seems to be that iGrok is quite convinced that kurumi is a scum as he already asked for a dt check rather than trust the dts to make the right decisions. About jackal, i do not know much about him as he has not stated a lot yet, but iGrok is showing us that he is in league with jackal as from the podt above. As of now, i do not want to label iGrok as scum, and i'd rather wait until later to see what jackal says and how the game flows, but iGrok is still suspicious. If iGrok is convicted as scum, then that puts pressure on jackal to respond.
If I was convinced Kurumi was scum, I'd be pushing for his lynch - hard.
Do I know that Jackal is town? No. I know he's good. Therefore I want a lot of action from him, for two reasons: If Jackal is Town, a lot of action from him means a lot of pro-town things happen. If he is scum, a lot of action occurs that I can make a read from.
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On June 06 2011 15:18 iGrok wrote:
Jackal58 is good. GGQ is good, borderline very good (no offense Jackal ♥). Vain is good. I'd like to think I'm decent. Impervious is... interesting haha. Kurumi has played 3 games, and Jackal called him out later on. Whats important here is that Kurumi lumps himself in with very good players that town should listen to. He's attempting to establish a position of power for himself.
On June 06 2011 16:55 iGrok wrote:
Personally, I think Jackal58, GGQ, or Vain would be great people to look up to and have confidence in - they're all pretty experienced and -good- players. Whomever among them we can confirm/be reasonably certain is town should be looked up to.
Is this a mistype or are you getting legitimate town reads from all 3 of those players? If, as you said in your first post, yourself, Jackal, GGQ, and Vain are the experienced players, so it is safe to assume that at least one would have been placed with the mafia, particularly in a noobie game.
I think a couple seem to be acting suspicious, but it's day 1 and that could be for multiple reasons.
Also, I'm going to ahead and voting for amazingxkcd, just in case something happens to me at work today and I won't be able to get a vote in.
@ amazingkcd, I'm really just waiting on you to refute the analysis I did earlier.
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EBMOP
Didn't see the second sentence of what I quoted.... fail. That being said I think the point remains that iGrok, Jackal58, GGQ, and Vain should be handled with a certain level of caution. One or two will likely be maf, and be more experienced at hiding it.
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On June 06 2011 22:52 amazingxkcd wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2011 21:57 iGrok wrote:
Hey Jackal, good to see you again. Mind going over my Kurumi analysis? As his post concerning kurumi 's behavior had helped, i am concerned with this statement. iGrok has listed a couple of seasoned players whom he reconizes for their experiences, but here he is already jumping to the conclusion that he had no reason to suspect them, especially jackal whom only made a post spectulating. It seems to be that iGrok is quite convinced that kurumi is a scum as he already asked for a dt check rather than trust the dts to make the right decisions. About jackal, i do not know much about him as he has not stated a lot yet, but iGrok is showing us that he is in league with jackal as from the podt above. As of now, i do not want to label iGrok as scum, and i'd rather wait until later to see what jackal says and how the game flows, but iGrok is still suspicious. If iGrok is convicted as scum, then that puts pressure on jackal to respond.
Day one and two I don't post a lot of analysis. I'm pretty much clueless. I will ask questions. I will point out discrepancies and misinterpretations. Day 1 I like to pick one or two players and tunnel the hell out of them. I'm looking for reactions. Not just from the person I'm tunneling but from everybody else as well. Scum love when I tunnel. I love when they vote for my victim. I usually don't have a lynch worthy case on them until day 3 though. I also promised Meapak I'd behave myself this game so I'm not going to do that because my tunneling style is quite aggressive and abrasive. I've been known to make people rage.
As far as connecting iGrok and myself good luck with that. You might as well connect everybody that has asked another player a question.
Kurumi is an excellent DT check. He's damn near impossible to read.
I would also point out that it is entirely likely that of the 3 or 4 people in this game (myself included)
that do have experience playing here at least 1 of them is on the scum team. That person isn't me but don't take my word for it. If I were scum I'd lie to you in a heartbeat. Just bear that in mind if you guys feel compelled to lynch me or scum kills me at night. When I flip green look really hard at GGQ and iGrok.
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+ Show Spoiler +On June 06 2011 23:03 monsterDrakar wrote:Of everything posted so far in this thread so far, the only useful bit of info is the first part of iGrok's analysis regarding the possible distribution of roles. I'm sure that all posts from Day1 will become invaluable as the game progresses and a lot of analysis will be done based on them, but for now they mean nothing. As far as I am concerned even if someone publicly declares themselves Godfather they still have a 20% of being mafia. Random lynch is random lynch. I see that I have managed to draw some votes for myself - which is always welcome. The interesting thing is that several people in here have said my voting of TheAwesomeAll is not legitimate because they cannot understand my argument. I don't really know how to respond to that. I feel that I made myself pretty clear. Do I need to use over 26000 characters to get a simple point across? If you really don't understand it you are either not very smart or are I just hit a nerve and you are trying to protect your scum buddy. Seriously, I have no problem with people disagreeing with me, but they don't really disagree, they state that they don't understand my argument. Here are some examples. supersoft+ Show Spoiler +voted for him because he voted against theawesomeall with a poor reason. I think theawesomeall -with his list - is obviously a scary player for mafiosi and other people that don't want to be in the spotlight. He made a list, and he’s checking it twice. No big deal, a good way to keep track of people who haven’t contributed much, if anything I will vote for Monsterdrakar because his reason for voting theawesomeall (Lists of inactives are bad) is stupid and I think that contributing should not be met with pointless allegations. Now here is the edited version of my argument against TheAwesomeAll. What happened? 12 hours after the start of the game the player in question makes a post including a list with innactives. At that time a large portion of the players have not even seen the thread. The posted list itself is not accurate, even after being updated once. What has the player done for himself? He has made himself appear useful, even helpful to the town. Is he really? Even if we ignore the facts that it was way too early for such kind of a list and the list itself was not accurate at all, you cant ignore the fact that a list with innactives is useless in its very nature - innactives will be modkilled. End of story. Here is a fake quote illustrating the situation - "Hey guys, see this awesome list I made, I took the time and I made and effort to contribute, unlike those other bad innactives". Why did I vote for that player? I vote for TheAwesomeAll because he has made a fake contribution to the thread, with which he is trying to demonstrate a pro-town behavior. It seems like he managed to decieve some people that he was really helping. Or are they his mafia buddies looking out for him? Interesting question....
Yes, monsterD, it appears to me that AwesomeAll posted that list as if trying to be helpful but either 1) he hadn't actually read the thread, or 2) he purposefully was trying to be distracting. I think 1 is makes more sense, but why would he post if he didn't actually understand/know what had happened to that point because he is totally new to mafia, because he wants to gain cred for looking helpful, because he is foolish? From his profile, we can see, AwesomeAll has no prior TLMafia experience and, at the time of a May 20th post by him, had never played any mafia at all. So, there is a chance he's just really new and foolish due to inexperience. Perhaps, he was excited to play and got overanxious trying to contribute with something of this manner because the list was certainly so early in the day as to be of little help. It's suspicious enough to deserve a watchful eye, but I'm not convinced enough to lynch yet. If he doesn't prove a more useful player then I'll agree with you.
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I wasn't inactive and not paying attention to the thread because I was lurking. I just finished reading the posts and I am glad that iGrok has given us something to discuss,while gtrsrs brought us some evidence versus him. Also pat me on the shoulder when You'll come to my house with Your magnifying glass to check who am I,DT I want to give You a high five. I don't fear coming as Townie to You  also I will update my vote-list and maybe get something from it.
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I also want to stress that I am pretty sure that freeloader is town and that we should lynch someone else.
lynching freeloader won't help us.
I don't think that any of the people currently high in the vote are obvious scum, but freeloader is very certainly not scum.
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On June 06 2011 23:28 Xedat wrote:
I also want to stress that I am pretty sure that freeloader is town and that we should lynch someone else.
lynching freeloader won't help us.
I don't think that any of the people currently high in the vote are obvious scum, but freeloader is very certainly not scum.
As for now,freeloader does not look a scum. Though we can't clear anyone on Day 1. I strongly believe if he is Mafia,he will slip later and turn our Green River into Red Marsh.
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@monsterDrakar:
It's not that you seem like an extremely scummy player to me, but I have to vote for someone because and you simply seemed the scummiest to me.
I don't think that TAA was too helpful with his post, but it also didn't seem like he was scummy and tried to blend in.
To me it looked like it was an inexperienced player trying to contribute.
I don't think that posting a list of inactive players is hurtful ever, I think it is good because it pressures the people on the list into contributing.
This early in the game nearly no analysis is really through because you just don't have enough data.
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EPT
