Dear TL, (lol i'm not really sure how to organize this blog in any coherent way!)
I'm hoping that some of you folks out there might be able to help me with a dilemma i'm having, regarding future career choice. For the last eon I've been sure that I'd go into medicine, just like half my family, be good at it, etc. But recently I've been thinking a lot about my personality and whatnot and maybe it's not the best choice for me.
Let me delve into more detail:
As bad as it sounds, I'm not really out to help people. In fact, I downright dislike people (but that's a separate issue which isn't too relevant.) I've always thought to myself, I'll deal with patients and stuff as much as I need, but i'll eventually become a surgeon and not have to deal with it as much. It seems to me an oxymoron that someone would want to be a doctor and not really give a crap about helping people.
I'm pretty confident that I could do a lot of things, but my dad always advises my brother and I that we should do what we enjoy the most. Being from an Asian family I have a lot of relatives that are doctors, namely my mum, aunts + uncles and grandparents and my older brother is currently in his final year of medicine. So as you can see, there's no shortage of family backing there which isn't really the problem.
I'm very lucky to say that medicine for me seems to be a very easy route to take (thankyou God), work experience and placements would be easy to arrange, any help I need is available at home, etc. but as I mentioned above it might not actually be the right choice for me.
My dad was a civil engineer but he gave it up after 15 years (iirc) and became a maths teacher because he never enjoyed being an engineer (wanted to be a lawyer, but ironically his father forced him). As a result of this my maths is probably my strongest subject. (those of you not in the UK can ignore this, but with my dad's coaching at home I did my gcse maths in year 8, and then proceeded to do my A-level in maths [not further])
Interestingly enough I had my own kinda American Dream. I would go to Cambridge or Imperial to do Medicine, and do my STEP exams as I was going through uni. After I graduated I would move to the USA for my residency (the only family I have in the USA is my uncle who is a surgeon in New Jersey) and start working, then getting married and so on so forth.
Right this is messed up now but w/e, you readers might think I'm a spastic writer lol.
The options I currently have on the table are:
Medicine - Read above
Mechanical Engineering - Doesn't really seem that interesting
Chemical Engineering - Doesn't really seem that interesting
Structural Engineering - plenty of maths, might be easy but would it be enjoyable?
{some form of financial, eg Investment Banking, Actuary Science, etc.} - riches and wealth, but boring for me.
That's probably not enough to go on so for my subject ability in a loose vague order:
ICT/Computing - Gosu, LOVE LOVE LOVE it, could do it 24/7. Just like a lot of you I ended up building my own computer when i was 12 lol ( I call it my first born child <3)
Maths - Strong - somehow part of my DNA, hate statistics, don't mind mechanics at all
Physics - I like mechanics so is pretty fun - strong thanks to maths, but hate rubbish about circuits and waves.
Chemistry - cool subject, quite like it - pretty strong (with revision ofc)
Biology - strongish - Human Biology is cool, but plants OMFG I DON'T CARE ABOUT STOMATA AGAIN FFS
Languages - Meh, dislike
Humanities, ie geography/history - I find them terribly dull and only put up with them at GCSE because they were easy.
English - LOL sir, when the poet wrote the grass is green i'm pretty sure it wasn't a subliminal link referring to ireland's potato famine in the 17th century kthx. But j'adore reading fantasy <3
Ummmm what else what else.
Oh yeah, obviously my aims. Right, if you hate selfish buggers look away now pleaase <3
As much as the next guy, I'd like to earn a lot of money. I'm dedicated enough that i'd work hard to be at the top of my field (whatever it may be) but I could tell you mid-level plastic surgeons in the USA earn ~$250,000 per annum which seemed good to me.
The pursuit of happiness? The ultimate question I suppose is would I enjoy what I do.
As a God fearing person I'd like to do something that I could say helped humanity in some form.
So I guess i'll end with this. I'm at a loss for what to do, the majority of my family is just like "do medicine man, best profession ever" ; and my dad's like "do what you'll enjoy."
So do any of you folks out there, regardless of job, age, gender or colour (begone american auto-correct) have any advice? (any little tidbit would be most highly valued.)
Phew, it's taken me an hour to write this, so thanks in advance tl <3
Contained is the reason for this blog. Those of you with any empathy will hate me if you read this.+ Show Spoiler +
The reason why i'm having this sudden collapse of my plan to fake empathy constantly is because today I was applying to volunteer at a charity where disabled children come for basically day-care for a week during the summer holiday and the volunteer's job is basically to look after them during the day from 9-4, every day for a week.
Being the arrogant selfish dickhead that I am, when I read this my first subconscious thought was, fuck that i'm not gonna waste a week of my summer holiday!
Then I thought to myself: "oh...shit." I totally understand how horrible, and callous and narcissistic that is, but that was my true core reaction. I'm a total dick. But that then caused me to think, well plenty of people that want to do medicine also actually want to help kids like this for the rest of their life, but i'm competing with them for this job just to add something to my personal statement when I didn't really give a crap about helping everyone.
I know completely as I type this out, that's not right. That's something that shouldn't ever happen and I know I might be able to fake empathy in interviews, when talking to people, but sure as hell I won't be able to, to myself, for the rest of my life.
To be honest, if you don't like helping people, you don't. I don't think you are being all the adjectives you are calling people.
I see you named all your strong points and your family's professions, you never told us what you like doing in terms of hobbies.
I'm a bit in the same boat as you. My entire father's side is composed of doctors as well: Cardiologist, psychologist, etc for the past 4 generations or so. Luckily, I don't have the pressure to do those professions and my Math sucks large balls.
However, I don't know what I want to do, I just know what I am good at and what I like, thus why I'm taking Psychology to potentially either Forensic Psychology or Social Psychology.
In any case, tell us your hobbies and what you like to do. Those should be your determinants because getting smart or good of something you like is what university is typically all about in my opinion
Doing what you enjoy is completely different from studying what you enjoy.
All the subjects you listed are just that, subjects you study at school. Jobs are different. You say your dad was a mechanical engineer, well, there are lots of mechanical engineering jobs. It could be anything from paperwork to machining to control design to mechanical design and anything and everything in between.
Before you choose a career, do the legwork and look at the end game, look at the career ladder; what eventually are you going to be doing, and will you enjoy it?
At some point you'll have to make a choice between, making money, hate people, be a god fearing person.
As far as your career is concerned just pick something you like and that you can make a living from, you can't ask people what you like. If you want be a surgeon be a surgeon, who cares if you don't really like people as long as you're good at it. I mean if your professional enough to do your job correctly do it if you like it.
Anyway your won't be the end of your career choices, even if you have a surgeon diploma you'll maybe have a shitty job or a good one. College is not the end of the road it's just the beginning of your life.
English - LOL sir, when the poet wrote the grass is green i'm pretty sure it wasn't a subliminal link referring to ireland's potato famine in the 17th century kthx. But j'adore reading fantasy <3
i'm a fan of you now :D
idk where from exactly, but i've been hearing this quote a few times over the last weeks: i don't know the exact words buts its somewhere along this: "Think of the problem you enjoy the most solving it. This is the direction you should head."
oh ehrm and on the part of feeling shitty for your reaction on those kids: it doesn't mean your a shitty person. If i did this, i would experience this as a kind of wasting my time sort of thing too. But its not because i'm a horrible person or anything. I just know that i am well capable of doing way more complicated things, and that only doing that more complex stuff would actually get me motivated to put my heart into it. So in fact, i truly believe the world will be better off with me doing something else. I don't think "i don't want to do this because i hate all retarded people" or something like that. I just know, that the .. "right" place for me is somewhere else.
i mean seriously, things cost a lot of money to do now. research into what things will actually involve, but don't pick something just because you think that for whatever reason it'll give you better career prospects, a ton of things nowadays don't need you to have studied x or y, but it won't help if you're bored of it and end up with a shit result.
you'll find with a lot of subjects, you can do other things around it in a lot of places. my bsc was in maths, but without it being joint with anything i did computer science, foreign languages, law, stats, physics etc
i mean seriously, things cost a lot of money to do now. research into what things will actually involve, but don't pick something just because you think that for whatever reason it'll give you better career prospects, a ton of things nowadays don't need you to have studied x or y, but it won't help if you're bored of it and end up with a shit result.
you'll find with a lot of subjects, you can do other things around it in a lot of places. my bsc was in maths, but without it being joint with anything i did computer science, foreign languages, law, stats, physics etc
While some people are forced into a career path they don't like to support a family and such, you don't seem to have that problem, so I would say just go with a career that in 10 years you'll look back and be happy with your choice.
I see you mention a lot of engineering degrees, but have no mention to Geoscience.
Based on some of the subjects you like (Math, Physics, Computer Science), it sounds like something like a geophysics degree might at least interest you. But I could be wrong. Although you mention don't like certain things in physics such as circuits and waves, so some part of geophysics you may dislike.
Math is great but really what are you going to do with it? Engineering seems like a safe play since it's math & physics focused, practical, has jobs, and is a good basis for many later paths in life. I feel that if you are really interested in computers and computer science, it's often better left as a hobby.
Keep in mind I'm a practising mechanical engineer, so all my advice is heavily biased.
I would take mechanical engineering or civil/structural engineering while knowing in the back of my mind that I'm not 100% committed to it, it's just a means to an end. After graduating, you can easily switch over to a masters in math or physics, or you can transition into other careers.
What you do not what to do if you choose this strategy, is start the degree and then switch mid-degree. If you go down this path you have to commit to finishing the undergrad.
I'm in a similar situation like you. Though I have still 1 year school to go. As a kid I always wanted to become someone like Dagobert Duck (lol) or any kind of engineer since I love(d) to play with Lego. Today -- well, I had to realize quite early that maths and physics aren't my best strenghts. It's kinda frustrating. Biology is my favorite subject at school. But when it comes down to it I actually don't know what I really like. Are these things just illusions influenced by the environment? My dad is a family doc and my brother is about to complete his medical degree. This also surely influenced my answer to people who asks me what I want to become someday: 'Something with medicine or biology but don't know it exactly yet."
It seems like you'r quite good at maths and you are into computer stuff. I personally wouldn't want to work only with computers/software programming stuff. Engineering is a quite safe area, at least here in Germany since we lack on manpower and it's also relatively well paid.
I'd say you choose what you like or where you are good at. If there's something with both in one, you found the Holy Grail!
I've been graced by a post from chill and the mighty torte de lini, amongst all you other awesome people. Lemme go through this then gents.
On March 09 2011 02:23 Torte de Lini wrote: I see you named all your strong points and your family's professions, you never told us what you like doing in terms of hobbies.
To be honest, it's just computers. I love everything about them. I'm obviously an avid starcraft follower, I play a fair bit of cricket and rugby but that's about it.
On March 09 2011 02:23 Torte de Lini wrote: P.S: Where in New Jersey? Monmouth county?
I dunno -_-
On March 09 2011 02:25 kainzero wrote: Before you choose a career, do the legwork and look at the end game, look at the career ladder; what eventually are you going to be doing, and will you enjoy it?
This I think is very key. I just had an hour long discussion with my parents about this. They were in fact able to provide insight into my own personality which I didn't fully understand, in that according to them I'm an innovative mind, and there's not much innovation in things like financial (which wasn't really ever on the table) and so we narrowed it down to Medicine and they told me i'd be stupid to not consider computer science.
On March 09 2011 02:28 FranzP wrote: If you want be a surgeon be a surgeon, who cares if you don't really like people as long as you're good at it. I mean if your professional enough to do your job correctly do it if you like it.
The issue I had is that being involved in any field of medicine, you do it primarily to help people, even if you aren't some selfless perfect human, most people have some motivation at least to do so which I feel I lack. Also if i'm honest, I think my idea of medicine has been somewhat glorified. Over the dinner table my relatives would talk about the one case they had that month of some rare disease. They wouldn't discuss having to stick their finger up people's butts 5 times a day because they guy said he had some abdominal pain.
On March 09 2011 02:30 Sayle wrote: Also, I just want to say, thank you SO MUCH for not even considering becoming an SC2 progamer.
haha ^^
On March 09 2011 03:07 Diius wrote: While some people are forced into a career path they don't like to support a family and such, you don't seem to have that problem, so I would say just go with a career that in 10 years you'll look back and be happy with your choice.
Indeed, i'm very lucky because of that. I think that's the main thing tbh, and thanks to these replies and a convo with my parents i'm moving in what I hope is the right direction.
On March 09 2011 03:13 K.Stoyles wrote: I see you mention a lot of engineering degrees, but have no mention to Geoscience.
I'm afraid I was being too hasty while writing about engineering degrees in my OP. I was following a thought that due to me being interested in maths, physics etc. I should consider engineering. Having given it more thought, I can't really see myself working in that field really, i'm afraid it doesn't appeal to me. Thankyou very much for your taking the time though!
On March 09 2011 03:34 Bibdy wrote: On the bright side, at least you can recognize and admit you aren't especially empathic. The first step off the road to being a sociopath.
That's a relief!
On March 09 2011 03:36 Chill wrote: Math is great but really what are you going to do with it? Engineering seems like a safe play since it's math & physics focused, practical, has jobs, and is a good basis for many later paths in life.
That's pretty much what I was thinking when I wrote that. Engineering is a fairly safe play, I know I can do it but unfortunately (especially in the UK) there's just not much money in it. Engineers at the top of their careers earn about £70,000 maximum. Also the thing I would have considered most out of those options was structural engineering, but I can't stomach the thought of sitting in an office all day just crunching numbers essentially.
On March 09 2011 03:36 Chill wrote: I feel that if you are really interested in computers and computer science, it's often better left as a hobby.
Originally this was what I thought, I would do medicine and keep computers as a hobby. When I was about 7 years old there was a program on the CBBC (childrens channel basically) called bamzooki, where kids would make these "zooks" aka little creatures in a very customizable engine then battle them against those of another teams. Somehow I ended up making my own, applying on the BBC website and I was actually on TV for this. My parents reminded me of this and other similar things, and told me flat out I need to do something which will stimulate me intellectually.
On March 09 2011 03:36 Chill wrote: I would take mechanical engineering or civil/structural engineering while knowing in the back of my mind that I'm not 100% committed to it, it's just a means to an end. After graduating, you can easily switch over to a masters in math or physics, or you can transition into other careers.
What you do not what to do if you choose this strategy, is start the degree and then switch mid-degree. If you go down this path you have to commit to finishing the undergrad.
When I did my GCSE's (10-11 exams at age 16) I did subjects like Geography and History which I found ultra-dull but because they were easy, and as you say a means to an end, I did a minimum of work but got my results, then continued on to A level. The thing I'm worried about is a full university course such as structural engineering, (since I would attempt to be in a top uni God willing) I'd need to put a lot of work in, but the motivation just wouldn't be there and I'd end up liking less and less for the duration of the course.
For this reason, as you say I would have to commit to the degree, it would be a probable nightmare.
Thankyou all very much for your contributions so far though, best of luck to all of you in your respective studies.
I think that you should go pre-med if you're considering it. Even if you don't like helping people, you more than likely will after seeing people in pain and helping them recover, and experiencing the internal pleasure brings. And if you don't end up wanting to be an MD, you can take the degree to other fields in medical where you don't need to talk directly to patients (hotel administration, research, specialists). The money really shouldn't play into it at all, if you enjoy what you're doing and you're good at it then you won't really care about if your driving a lamborghini because you'll be on top of the world already, and you'll make more if you're happy anyways.
I can tell you from experience that civil engineering is nothing you would like. Working as a civil engineer is mostly about dealing with people, gaining your coworkers and your employees and not so much about number crunching or drawing plans or whatever.
Oh and yeah, if it's money you're worried about, you really need to have something on the side. Making money is a completely separate skill from doing good in school or being good at your career.
Well it sounds like you're sold on comp sci. I wrote a lot, but I just deleted it all because it's not important.
My concern with computer science is getting trapped just being a programmer. A lot of the fun from coding comes from working through the logic, trouble shooting your code, doing big picture stuff. I imagine it's easy to get trapped being "the guy writing Loop 18-12098-AB-9". It seems a lot of web design guys avoid getting trapped like that, and seem to make a lot of money, but I don't know if that's your thing.
But that's true of all industries. It's easy to be the guy at Boeing studying the stress on Screw 990-618 or the guy at the engineering firm studying the stress on pipe 20-SHL-615.
On March 09 2011 04:44 Endymion wrote: I think that you should go pre-med if you're considering it. Even if you don't like helping people, you more than likely will after seeing people in pain and helping them recover, and experiencing the internal pleasure brings. And if you don't end up wanting to be an MD, you can take the degree to other fields in medical where you don't need to talk directly to patients (hotel administration, research, specialists). The money really shouldn't play into it at all, if you enjoy what you're doing and you're good at it then you won't really care about if your driving a lamborghini because you'll be on top of the world already, and you'll make more if you're happy anyways.
Aah, i'm afraid it's a bit different for us in the UK. We just go to university and study medicine, at the end of the 6 year course we graduate as a doctor so there's no undergraduate or post graduate stuff.
I do agree completely though with what you say about happiness. With regards to developing empathy, i'm not so sure.
On March 09 2011 04:49 Cloud wrote: I can tell you from experience that civil engineering is nothing you would like. Working as a civil engineer is mostly about dealing with people, gaining your coworkers and your employees and not so much about number crunching or drawing plans or whatever.
Oh and yeah, if it's money you're worried about, you really need to have something on the side. Making money is a completely separate skill from doing good in school or being good at your career.
yeah my dad said much the same, as I said to Chill I'm not sure i'd like either the number crunching or civil aspects of engineering.
On March 09 2011 04:54 Chill wrote: Well it sounds like you're sold on comp sci. I wrote a lot, but I just deleted it all because it's not important.
My concern with computer science is getting trapped just being a programmer. A lot of the fun from coding comes from working through the logic, trouble shooting your code, doing big picture stuff. I imagine it's easy to get trapped being "the guy writing Loop 18-12098-AB-9". It seems a lot of web design guys avoid getting trapped like that, and seem to make a lot of money, but I don't know if that's your thing.
But that's true of all industries. It's easy to be the guy at Boeing studying the stress on Screw 990-618 or the guy at the engineering firm studying the stress on pipe 20-SHL-615.
Thanks for taking the amount of time to write here I guess ^^, i'm sure you must be busy with your moderating and studying etc.
I'm still researching, mainly I have no idea about the kind of work that a computer science degree can lead into. You're completely right. Out of everything, i'm the most terrified of being some average joe, whether that be an average family doctor seeing patients every day, or as you say, the guy studying stress on a screw.
I'll give you an interesting example which I hope will shed some light on my ambition. My uncle as a surgeon loves his job so sooo much. In the middle of the night some other surgeon will call him from the hospital because they have some problem in a surgery. He'll not even blink he'll just get in the car and go. When he's free and got no work, he goes up to other doctors and asks if he can take some of their cases. As a result of that he's the goto guy for the entire place because he loves it so much.
My fear is that in computer science, will I ever be in that kind of position, heck is it even possible to be in that kind of position, where one can be respected and seen as extra talented? If not i'll grit my teeth and go through medschool, and hope that at the other end I can find something which I enjoy doing.
The ironic thing though, is that my uncle wanted to be a biomedical engineer, but at the time there wasn't much information on what that entails, salaries, jobs, etc. so he just became a doctor. The thing he enjoys so much isn't really the medicine or the surgery, it's the having people depend on you so much because of his expertise
I'd just like to add a suggestion that I haven't seen here yet (Note that this is what I'm doing and loving it, so I'm a little biased).
Did you consider Computer Engineering? Normal computer engineering programs start off really broad and then in the upper years you can go a number of different directions. People who like the lower level logic and the way things fit together type stuff go off into designing hardware (The logic on the computer chips). I was good at this but it was too low level, I wanted something with more immediate results. People who like to systematically run through stuff can go into QA (testing and verification). Too boring for me. People who start and find that they mostly like the computer science courses that are involved in their degree can finish and still get all the same jobs that computer science students can get. I'm working as a programmer right now as part of the co-op program that is required at my school. Finally, people who don't like any of those usually figure it out in their first year and being in Engineering has two benefits there too. First is that the courses are broad enough in range in the first year that there is almost always a few that helpful in any degree you decide to transfer to. Second is that Engineering is hard enough to get into that the requirements to transfer to another degree aren't too high.
I considered Computer Science before I realized that Computer Engineering left me with more options and I could still get the same jobs if I decided I wanted them later.
btw one of the things with programming is that it's actually more of a trade skill/project skill than an academic study.
unlike physical engineering, in computer world, you can make your own projects or be part of many programming projects that go into your portfolio that will sell you 1000000x better to a company than a degree would.
also in computer world there's a demand for a lot of trade skill as well, IT/networking work that is different from programming, work that may require a degree or certifications.
as for money, ask yourself what you need it for and whether you really want a high paying job because of the pay. i'm not working a 6 figure salary, but i make a decent amount... yet, i end up hoarding a lot of money because i'm not sure what i want to do with it, i don't care about nice cars or fancy electronics. when i think about that, i'd rather work fewer hours a week instead of earning a larger salary.
EPT
