The Death of the Hydra? - Page 13
Forum Index > SC2 General |
BeNign618
Canada2 Posts
| ||
Milvus
Switzerland400 Posts
| ||
Bub
United States3517 Posts
Absolutely. | ||
undyinglight
United States611 Posts
On March 08 2011 17:09 Barca wrote: You people are ridiculous. Every unit has their place, and Hydras are ridiculously powerful when used correctly. If you think your Hydras are dying too fast and are ineffective, perhaps you are not using them correctly. In ZvP, 2 base Hydra pushes are nearly impossible to stop (or scout, mind you) and they're incredibly effective against any type of Protoss air. Stop complaining about imba or UP, use your units in the way that makes them the most cost effective possible. Hydras against Collosus is not cost effective. Yeah, I'm kind of trolling this thread. But at least understand my argument, it's legitimate. I agree, not with the trolling, but Hydra pushes can be quite good, and hard to see coming. 80hp really is reasonable for the cost and they have such high dps, more than twice that of Marines. They are so good vs Phoenix and VRs. Have Roaches tank and hydras back them up. If opponent goes for collosi counter with corruptors, do not take them head on sweep in with corruptor and snipe a collosi and move back out. Try to catch a stray one on the way to reinforce the main toss force. | ||
Neivler
Norway911 Posts
I want some unit that I can micro, and not just a-move (or just move like the blings ) | ||
me_viet
Australia1350 Posts
On March 08 2011 17:37 undyinglight wrote: I agree, not with the trolling, but Hydra pushes can be quite good, and hard to see coming. 80hp really is reasonable for the cost and they have such high dps, more than twice that of Marines. They are so good vs Phoenix and VRs. Have Roaches tank and hydras back them up. If opponent goes for collosi counter with corruptors, do not take them head on sweep in with corruptor and snipe a collosi and move back out. Try to catch a stray one on the way to reinforce the main toss force. You're comparing a 50 minerals 1 supply unit with a 100minerals + 50 gas unit...That's like saying... The ultralisk is better because it has more hp than a Zergling -_-" But for cost, the marine out dps and has more hp than the hydra. 2 marines will have TEN more hp than a hydra for the same mineral cost and supply cost. I'm not even counting the gas cost (which many agrees is more important than min cost). Nor am I considering combat shield upgrade yet. According to wikipedia 1 hydra has 14.5 dps. Two marines will have 14 dps, only 0.5 dps less. With Stim, it'll be 21 dps, almost 50% more (stim effect). And @Barca, really the build you mention is the only build that I can think of that relies on Hydra. It could very well turn out that in the future, that'll be the only reason to ever get a hydra. To do a 2 base hydra push. Hell, you know a unit is in bad shape when a P goes stargate phoenix to force hydras so they can counter with Collosus, I feel something is wrong. On these new bigger maps that are coming out, the hydra's uselessness are going to be more pronounce. A P can probably warp-in 2-3 collosus the time it takes for hydras to cross the map T___T. However the silver lining is that bigger maps will encourage nydus play, and we can perhaps see hydra 'strike force' or something lol. | ||
Valckrie
United Kingdom533 Posts
| ||
TFB
United Kingdom89 Posts
In order for roach/hydra to "work properly" at the moment, it either requires a pretty small army size, or a ridiculously large open area. The former is just very un-zerg, and the latter strikes me as a horrible balance fix as it's clearly not possible on all maps, and even if it was it would just give zerg to much of an advantage via their other units. Making the hydra quicker would, in my opinion, reduce the amount of tactics and micro* required to use the hydra, and making it tougher just feels like a really boring, zero character way to solve a problem, whereas upping the range and keeping it slow and fragile gives the unit a distinct character whilst at the same time allowing roach/hydra armies to bring more firepower to bear against "death ball" type armies in a greater variety of situations than is currently possible. * Make to hydras keep up with the roaches and it reduces the need for the zerg player to consider the two unit types separately, whilst also reducing the opposition's ability to take distinct action against the two unit types. | ||
CarlyZerg
United States113 Posts
| ||
Hectic
Australia159 Posts
just like broodwar... | ||
Velocirapture
United States983 Posts
Basically this must be a low level zerg concern because I have heard a number of high level zerg speak pretty highly of hydras on their streams (in between all the qq of course). | ||
evanthebouncy!
United States12796 Posts
On March 08 2011 17:51 Neivler wrote: The big problem with Hydras is that you cant micro them. That is a major problem with almost all of the zergs units. Either they dont need or work better with micro, or you just cant micro them like the hydras. If you get hit by a storm it is better to just sit there and take it than try to avoid it, since the hydras are so slow they wont get out of it anyway. I want some unit that I can micro, and not just a-move (or just move like the blings ) too much truth in this post. We need 100/100 speed upgrade, remove some creep speed bonus and it'll be good to go. Honestly all zerg units should have speed upgrades... | ||
TzTz
Germany511 Posts
| ||
Wolf
Korea (South)3289 Posts
Even so, it's ridiculous to assert that they're a 'dying unit' at this time. | ||
xbankx
703 Posts
| ||
Striding Strider
United Kingdom787 Posts
I agree with Idra that they should switch the Roach and Hydra position in the tech tree which would conversely give Zealots more of a role in the match up early-med game. I mean you only really need those armoured units (Roaches) late game when AOE comes into play. Just giving them a speed upgrade would just be too much IMHO. | ||
Jayme
United States5866 Posts
That's really the crux of the matter. Once there is AOE on the field you may as well suicide your hydras for all the good they'll do you. Impossible to micro because of their terrible speed compounded by their already fragile nature just makes them a bad mix in a traditionally mobile army. Up the speed and sacrifice something...like a little DPS if you must...but the speed is the problem. It's ALWAYS been the problem. | ||
Cheerio
Ukraine3178 Posts
Blizzard were afraid hydras will be the ultimate unit of sc1 where a mass of hydras was deadly and only could be stopped with other imbas of sc1 like mm, tanks, storm. Since those imbas were gone so should the hydras and they double nerfed it with speed and general dps*hp power. So it ended up as a weak and slow unit which is only used for anti air in some situations. P.S. It's incredible how sc1 being such a compilation of imbalances became the most balanced rts ever. | ||
Maggeus
France277 Posts
It's not that hydra needs a speed upgrade. It is WHY hydra does not have speed ! Thinking like that, it's because hydras were too good before, when they had 90 hps. The metagame was really different before, more fixed on T1 rush with protoss and mech play against zergs (when tanks were absolutely awesome). Right now, we need to know : if hydras are still a glass cannon unit, they need speed, in order to support the main army. If they're not, they need to be changed in order to be able to exist by themselves. | ||
kar1181
United Kingdom515 Posts
The lack of a damage soaking 'tank' unit must be solvable some other way that doesn't involve the roach. | ||
| ||