EPTI don't watch TV.
What if certain taxes were voluntary? - Page 14
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Treemonkeys
United States2082 Posts
I don't watch TV. | ||
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Kimaker
United States2131 Posts
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Treemonkeys
United States2082 Posts
On February 02 2011 08:33 Kimaker wrote: It wouldn't be much of a tax if there wasn't the threat of violence as a form of coercion to maintain the "taxes" existence Why the Mises quote? Entusman #54 (-_-)? | ||
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VabuDeltaKaiser
Germany1107 Posts
On February 02 2011 08:14 BroodjeBaller wrote: Seriously like every single post i have read from you sounds like a troll post. and now i jump in saying the federal reserve is a privat organisation. not the government, thats just a vehicle, not the driver. choose: invest in investigation or fast judge! also there was this funny documentation freedom to something by aron ruso about the income tax system. so sad we do not have that much of an straight out fraud here :/ | ||
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Treemonkeys
United States2082 Posts
On February 02 2011 08:40 VabuDeltaKaiser wrote: and now i jump in saying the federal reserve is a privat organisation. not the government, thats just a vehicle, not the driver. choose: invest in investigation or fast judge! also there was this funny documentation freedom to something by aron ruso about the income tax system. so sad we do not have that much of an straight out fraud here :/ Yes, private bankers create US dollars, loan it out, and are paid it back plus interest. These bankers are known as the Federal Reserve. | ||
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mcc
Czech Republic4646 Posts
On February 02 2011 08:25 Treemonkeys wrote: Then dispute what I have said. Where do US dollars come from? You are making too much fuss, so here : they are (as all other currencies in the world) printed/minted. So now that we have this trivial question answered was there a point ? | ||
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Treemonkeys
United States2082 Posts
On February 02 2011 08:43 mcc wrote: You are making too much fuss, so here : they are (as all other currencies in the world) printed/minted. So now that we have this trivial question answered was there a point ? I think the point went over your head. | ||
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Bibdy
United States3481 Posts
On February 02 2011 08:42 Treemonkeys wrote: Yes, private bankers create US dollars, loan it out, and are paid it back plus interest. These bankers are known as the Federal Reserve. Its their power and control over the flow of money, that they certainly wouldn't have with a gold standard, is the reason we haven't crashed head-first into multiple Great-Depression-esque recessions over the last 60 years. I don't see how any of it applies to socialized systems, and how they would have a hope in hell of survival if they create themselves a very poor, very pissed off, armed and loaded population of millions. | ||
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VabuDeltaKaiser
Germany1107 Posts
On February 02 2011 08:43 mcc wrote: You are making too much fuss, so here : they are (as all other currencies in the world) printed/minted. So now that we have this trivial question answered was there a point ? printed hm? do you know the worth printed money? exactly the amount of production. even the most money is not printed at all, just numbers in a computer. thats close to zero of worth. this close to zero real worth money is lent by a private organisation to states. to banks. with the full worth it was printed on or typed in. it gets even funnier. all this money comes with full interest. like you produce a paper, write a number on it, give it to someone, and because he uses it, you already want something back. all countrys who run a debt based money system are in debt just because they use the money. thats all. if they would have a backed up money system produced by a states bank, they would not even be in debt at all. if this is not crazy... | ||
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Treemonkeys
United States2082 Posts
On February 02 2011 08:51 VabuDeltaKaiser wrote: printed hm? do you know the worth printed money? exactly the amount of production. even the most money is not printed at all, just numbers in a computer. thats close to zero of worth. this close to zero real worth money is lent by a private organisation to states. to banks. with the full worth it was printed on or typed in. it gets even funnier. all this money comes with full interest. like you produce a paper, write a number on it, give it to someone, and because he uses it, you already want something back. all countrys who run a debt based money system are in debt just because they use the money. thats all. if they would have a backed up money system produced by a states bank, they would not even be in debt at all. if this is not crazy... Can we be friends? | ||
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shdymlkman
United States4 Posts
On February 02 2011 08:43 mcc wrote: You are making too much fuss, so here : they are (as all other currencies in the world) printed/minted. So now that we have this trivial question answered was there a point ? The Fed can print money whenever it wants but if you try to do it, you are taken to jail. Since it is illegal to use currencies other than the state approved one, your debt enslavement is guaranteed. I am surprised at the amount of boot-licking and stockholm syndrome in this thread and even more surprised at how long Treemonkeys has tolerated it. | ||
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Terranist
United States2496 Posts
i'm all for opting out of SS and investing that money elsewhere. | ||
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Mentalizor
Denmark1596 Posts
Americans (no offense) has to save up ALOT of money to get into college. In Denmark - we're payed to get educated. Not much - but enough so we can actually do it without saving bounches of money or working on the side. This pays off by having a huuuuuge number of highly educated ppl - paying more money back to society - making it possible for even more ppl to get educated. I know americans in general are liberal/conservatice. But free health care, social seciry and (the mentioned above) educational support is all about making your society safer and better for everyone. Not about taking tons of money from whoever cannot afford it. | ||
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VabuDeltaKaiser
Germany1107 Posts
sure On February 02 2011 08:56 shdymlkman wrote: The Fed can print money whenever it wants but if you try to do it, you are taken to jail. Since it is illegal to use currencies other than the state approved one, your debt enslavement is guaranteed. I am surprised at the amount of boot-licking and stockholm syndrome in this thread and even more surprised at how long Treemonkeys has tolerated it. hey i am there! plus he seems to be mannered and prolong in tl. | ||
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Bibdy
United States3481 Posts
On February 02 2011 08:56 shdymlkman wrote: The Fed can print money whenever it wants but if you try to do it, you are taken to jail. Since it is illegal to use currencies other than the state approved one, your debt enslavement is guaranteed. I am surprised at the amount of boot-licking and stockholm syndrome in this thread and even more surprised at how long Treemonkeys has tolerated it. You realize that by printing dollars, they LOWER the value of the dollar and that it gets tracked like a godamned hawk, right? Its not money that's just popping out of thin air, that they just hand to themselves and pay off the mortgage on their 17th mansion in the Bahamas. | ||
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ICA
498 Posts
To topic: General answer is country dependent I guess, since things like social security depend on demographics. That being said, I would pay social security if birth rates are increasing, otherwise you don't gain from the system, simple as that. | ||
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nalgene
Canada2153 Posts
So you are better off opting out and investing the money you have now ( inflation causes the worth to drop as time progresses ) in stocks and dividends. Alan Greenspan said in public that the way he talks is just to confuse people. | ||
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forkleaf
United States75 Posts
On February 02 2011 08:10 Treemonkeys wrote: Do you have any idea why it is like this? The bank creates money. The bank lends money. The bank is paid back this conjured money, plus interest. The bank uses this money to then buy up more and more assets, and then lending them out. Eventually it reaches the point where nearly everything is owned by the bank, which is why the majority of people can no longer buy a car, buy a house, go to college, or start a business without borrowing it from a bank. That outcome isn't a guarantee. By the mid 70s it was possible to have something. That was the result of economic growth. The reversal following that wasn't a result of the inherent structure of the banking system. Deregulation, financialization of the economy, and most important the neoconservatives. | ||
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VabuDeltaKaiser
Germany1107 Posts
On February 02 2011 09:22 nalgene wrote: You can never pay the money back when the total amount in circulation is less than the total amount + the debt that comes with each dollar. It's printed money with usury tacked on that the people must pay back at some point. The Federal Reserve is a private bank made up of twelve unnamed banks at the time of founding. JP Morgan and Goldman Sachs are two of the twelve, and Bernanke already lied and deceived that senator Ron Paul when asked to name the banks. The ones who understand the system or so dependent on its favours, or so interested in its profits, there will be no opposition from that class. So you are better off opting out and investing the money you have now ( inflation causes the worth to drop as time progresses ) in stocks and dividends. excuse me this is like saying, the rainforrest destruction is bad concerning world climate. but well, to at least make some profit, join in rainforrest destruction. this totally is making no sense. edit.: well you tried greenspeak too and i gotcha, sorry. you will not run into people like me everyday tho. trust me xD | ||
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c0rn1
Germany146 Posts
Just to bring some additional topics: Did you know that the US spends 8-9 % of their yearly spending just for interest of the credits? That's about $250,000,000,000 (250 bn). The military budget is @ ~500bn. $1000 per head in the US. And after the past few years that number absolutely and relatively will increase. I see alot of people saying that saving for bad times is a private matter. Then I ask you do you support the bailout for the banks? Shouldn't they have saved for bad times rather spending trillions in casino style? And what do you think would happen if the bailout wouldn't have been there. Alot of people who invested their savings into banks would be bankrupt now because the bank would've had to declare bankrupcy. Why does the society have to pay for this? (the bailout was nothing else than a social security program). Some people say others are stupid. How would you see someone who bought a house and couldnt pay the interest anymore because he lost his job due to the crisis? Does not have everyone the same right on resources, ground, etc. with his birth? Isn't that the basic element of capitalism? you start equal and personal quality decides the path you can go and the money you make? How can it be that in capitalism where everyone can go from dishwasher to president only 10% own 60%-70% of the total wealth? And the "amazing" thing is that the community of those 10% almost never gains members rather loses some. If those 10% would spend 2% tax on their TOTAL possesion for the next 10 years the US would be debtfree (almost the same with germany nowadays). BUT those rich who have everything they need million times over just got an additional tax cut?! WE have a system where money is printed -not backed up by anything- but the total amount in circulation is LESS than the total amount of debt. Now let's think. 10% own 60-70% and the total amount is less than the debt? Are maybe the rest of those people in debt? 90%? NO, you say! because you are debtfree. Wrong I say because after the principle of governmental society the debt of the US is your debt too. => 178k per citizen right now. So if you got less than $ 178k somewhere you are _not_ debtfree and live on social security. Because the society guarantees your security of freedom to do what you do. | ||
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