EPTWhat if certain taxes were voluntary? - Page 2
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Wesso
Netherlands1245 Posts
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jalstar
United States8198 Posts
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Golliebollie
Norway34 Posts
You spending your money on yourself You spending your money on someone else vs Government spending someone elses money on someone else. The result is invariably inefficiency and waste They take a large percentage of income, a percentage on everything you buy, a hidden tax on your savings through inflation...etc etc. How much value do you think you get for your money? | ||
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Divine-Sneaker
Denmark1225 Posts
There are loads of pro's and con's for having higher degrees of state intervention and socialistic tendencies, but I'd prefer less of it than I have to deal with now. | ||
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bech
Denmark162 Posts
In Denmark at least, we've got unemployment-aid that you can choose to pay if you please. However, this isn't actually a kind of "tax" but more of a service that private companies (that are somewhat supported by the state in terms of tax-exempt status etc) can take on the role of managing certain services for customers. This means that if I pay this company a certain amount a month I am guaranteed x months of pay in case of me being fired or losing my job somehow. Most people (mainly americans i've noticed) reckon this as a bad idea - argueing that they are responsible enough to pay for their own social security by saving up. The problem with that is youre limited by the amount of money you earn. A low income household won't be able to save up as much as a high-income household - and that's a problem. The danish way of doing it is by letting everyone pay the same amount, and in the rare case that someone needs financial aid, that person gets a pretty large amount compared to what that person has paid - This works because obviously not everyone who pays will eventually need it - but it provides society with a sense of security in a tough time. We've got government-controlled services that provide the same financial aid - and that's not voluntairy - but if you don't pay a private company besides your taxes, you'll get enough to get by, but surely not enough to live confortably while searching for a new job. | ||
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nalgene
Canada2153 Posts
That poll seems a bit shocking to some gentiles for some reason. More usury ---> more money later ---> more even more usury --->more money The money they take in is not used to produce usury of any sort, so there's no benefit for them to take it now and sit on it while all that time, they could make it grow. While that money is not used to produce usury, there's inflation going on at all times. Money now is worth more than money later, unless usury is added as time progresses to keep it close to what it was worth before or above. Although investments, stocks, dividends, all good ways to get more usury. Naked shorting works as well, although with much more risk. | ||
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SpoR
United States1542 Posts
More on topic, I really don't know. I would have to really look into the politics of it and learn about saving money and things like that to make a real decision on the matter. We are always hearing about how there will be no SSI when we are old enough to retire. | ||
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Ryndika
1489 Posts
How necessary you view social security probably depends on how reliant you will be on it in the future. Do you plan on living off social security when you retire? Or do you think you'll have enough personal savings to live on? I view it more as a safety net than something I invest on and then use later on. | ||
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sc4k
United Kingdom5454 Posts
On February 01 2011 17:05 Morfildur wrote: Yep, because people in general are stupid. Those taxes are not just for your future, they are for those who already need the money. You are giving the money to the community, so those that are retired already can use it, people that are ill can get medical care, etc. In turn for paying those taxes you can expect people to pay for you when you get old or require medical care. I don't know the correct english term, but in germany we call it a "generation contract". This generation pays for the previous, so the next will pay for us, knowing that those after them will pay for them. Of course this doesn't work in the selfish USA, where everyone only cares about himself. I pay my taxes and would pay them if they were voluntary, i don't even care about getting any tax refunds because in the end, the money will be used for the community and i trust in the government to use it to it's best ability for the good of everyone. User was temp banned for this post. Why the hell was this banned? Selfish isn't exactly a rude word. And, by comparison to Germany, the US is clearly a more selfish society. | ||
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Ryndika
1489 Posts
On February 01 2011 19:53 sc4k wrote: Why the hell was this banned? Selfish isn't exactly a rude word. And, by comparison to Germany, the US is clearly a more selfish society. Yes I was wondering it too but then I realized he was pointing out that everyone in USA cares only about himself which is pretty hardcore generalization. e:He has good points tho. | ||
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FetTerBender
Germany1393 Posts
On February 01 2011 20:47 Ryndika wrote: Yes I was wondering it too but then I realized he was pointing out that everyone in USA cares only about himself which is pretty hardcore generalization. e:He has good points tho. I dont think selfish is the right word, giving personal responibility to people can be seen as something positive, i guess. The question here is, if Germany would want to switch from the generation contract to let people take care for themselves, could it without problems? Imho, you cannot reverse the generation contract quickly, which is a major problem to the system in Germany. With less and less young people and more and more elderly, payments will not be sufficient in the near future. The working generation would have to pay a lot more to finance the retired people, which will become more and more of a problem the longer the demographic development goes on. On the other hand, Germany cannot reverse this, because the actual generation of recievers have already paid their debt and have not had the opportunity to take care for themselves. Leaving a current working generation in the need of paying the elderly. Which becomes a circle, aswell. The "balance" of capitalism and support by the government has to be brought to a better level, so that (if in need) the country can help it´s people. If not needed, the money can be used for other things (school, university, infrastructure) or invested to grow faster than the inflation at least. Just my 2 Cents. | ||
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hifriend
China7935 Posts
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PolSC2
United States634 Posts
On February 01 2011 19:53 sc4k wrote: Why the hell was this banned? Selfish isn't exactly a rude word. And, by comparison to Germany, the US is clearly a more selfish society. Read the ban list. Also, don't be so angry, it's a forum. I wouldn't put into SS. It will be gone by the time I'd be able to use it. It's draining faster than the money is being put in. =[ | ||
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Iyerbeth
England2410 Posts
Unfortunately in my experience those who would want the abolition of taxation only want to be free of the 'burden' of people who're not as well off. Well that or they believe that they just need to work hard and they won't need the benefits of taxation soon anyway because 'the system works!!!' and 'the free market provides for all!' and they're only temporarily part of the working class. | ||
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xarthaz
1704 Posts
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QuanticHawk
United States32021 Posts
On February 01 2011 19:53 sc4k wrote: Why the hell was this banned? Selfish isn't exactly a rude word. And, by comparison to Germany, the US is clearly a more selfish society. because it has nothing to do with selfishness and everything to do with the fact that the baby boomers outnumber the workforce bigtime? that plus an increase lifespan means that i will probably not be able to touch my ss money until im 75. woooo. however, i like mani's rational: the us was doiing this selfish act at a time when germany was... well.... yeah so much for selfish nations and stuff. | ||
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muse5187
1125 Posts
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[Eternal]Phoenix
United States333 Posts
You can just invest privately and reap better benefits. Nobody should seriously believe in SS anymore, one of the most broken systems in the world, and one of the biggest sources of entitlement debt that is slowly killing this country. Medicare/medicaid serve good purposes, but why have medicare if you can just not pay as much in taxes? Look at the budget for entitlements and the welfare state in the US. It's outrageous and unsustainable. Privatization is the only real option without turning the US into a 80% income tax socialist nightmare. If you wanna live like that, go ahead, Europe has plenty of room for you. =D | ||
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Eeevil
Netherlands359 Posts
On February 01 2011 22:24 [Eternal]Phoenix wrote: What OP is suggesting is basically turning the gov't into a private competitor in investment/retirement. People have been suggesting this for a long time, and quite frankly, it's stupid. Why? You can just invest privately and reap better benefits. Nobody should seriously believe in SS anymore, one of the most broken systems in the world, and one of the biggest sources of entitlement debt that is slowly killing this country. Medicare/medicaid serve good purposes, but why have medicare if you can just not pay as much in taxes? Look at the budget for entitlements and the welfare state in the US. It's outrageous and unsustainable. Privatization is the only real option without turning the US into a 80% income tax socialist nightmare. If you wanna live like that, go ahead, Europe has plenty of room for you. =D Yeah private companies have been proven so trustworthy when it comes to handling other people's money. Credit Crunch is an ice-cream flavour. /sarcasm BTW I do love the nice right-wing rhetoric. You shouldn't believe in it! It's killing your Country! It'll turn your country in a nightmare! Nooooes! So don't believe in SS so it will not kill your country and it won't be resurrected as a socialist nightmare. Never knew politics had so much in common with horror movies. | ||
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WinByDefault
Australia19 Posts
While I'm not sure what I would actually do, i believe that paying these taxes (for the benefit of others, not for myself) would be the right thing to do. | ||
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