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Cliffnotes on Analysis
My Thoughts
Shockeyy: (By LSB)
1) Lurks all the time
2) Does not take a position
3) Responds only when pressured
4) Profile matches with previous scum play.
D3_crescentia (By Kavdragon)
1) Critiques stuff without alternatives Yeah... because everyone offered alternatives to my plan. </sarcasm>
2) Spam Yeah... because only scum spam.</sarcasm>
3) States obvious points and mini analysis
Insanious (By DCLXVI)
1) Has a few good posts FOS DCLXVI
2) Lack of activity Yeah because you're a shining example of what it is like to be active
On December 16 2010 16:39 Brocket wrote:
Satisfactory analyses, well done gentlemen.
DCLXVI even bought attention to himself about the two voters against him being eliminated via analysing insanious. So it's a sign of honesty but the fact is still suss. I'm still not trusting Gabe because of kenpachi+ jcarl.
d3 hasn't been very consistent, that much is true. Why is it that townies seem to crumble when they are accused, you've got nothing to hide, don't make things worse by blurting out names and getting unnecessarily offended by accusation.
WTF?????? Is this sarcasm?
DCLXVI (By Insanious) Interesting, do you want to look at his previous play to confirm? I could give you Segunko PMs if you'd think they'd be useful
1) Contributed nothing to the thread, just did token posts to seem like he was participating
2) Continuously uses the "I don't read the thread much" card, even though he seems to know what's going on
3) Got FoS'd by two players who died in the last night period
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On December 15 2010 10:30 LSB wrote:All right. If Zeks flips green. Take note of this. If he's red, I will eat my words. The issue today that I don't want to lynch Zeks. We're falling with the same trap with lynching Kenpachi. They play like this all the time. Lynching zeks would just be like doing a random pick. However, mafia always has a hand in RNG. I pushed ShoCkeyy because I agreed with D3 that we need to make the lurkers more visible. Amber[Light]'s response was not only OMGUS. He was well justified. Lurker pops up. Randomly votes Amber[Light], tries to hide. So, rather than voting Gabriel, I decided that ShoCkeyy is the better lynch. And after a few observations heres a few things I found Firstly: ShoCkeyy just flat out lurked: He had one post day one that did nothing but explain that "his vote really wasn't a vote" + Show Spoiler [First post] +On December 12 2010 05:51 ShoCkeyy wrote:Show nested quote +On December 12 2010 04:35 tree.hugger wrote:On December 11 2010 17:41 tree.hugger wrote:My hunch is that he's not going to be able to commit fully to anything, no matter how much we prod.
On December 12 2010 02:30 Kenpachi wrote:
asdf. even when i post, i get pointed scum On December 12 2010 02:35 Kenpachi wrote:
okay so yea my posts were bad but what can i say? i couldnt offer anything there and there. So i voted Gabriel for blatant bandwagon. Then he reacts and i defend. On December 12 2010 02:27 Kenpachi wrote:
##vote tree.hugger On December 12 2010 04:10 Kenpachi wrote:On December 12 2010 03:39 DCLXVI wrote:
Thank you insanious and tree.hugger, I hope to see more people post like that. I don't understand why people are letting Kenpachi off the hook for bad posting. So what if he has a history of being less than stellar for the town. We cannot allow him to spam and distract the town because even if he isn't mafia, this helps the mafia. He is playing in a way that benefits the mafia, so even if he isn't (though I think he is), he is dangerous for the town. I really don't like the defense used by darth and meepak of "oh, well this is just how he normally plays". Townies don't intentionally hurt the town by doing what kenpachi is doing.
I'll hopefully be back in a bit before the vote ends, but I feel safe in putting my vote on Kenpachi. Every vote on him is a vote to clean up the town. youre dumb. what if i happened to be DT or Medic? On December 12 2010 04:13 Kenpachi wrote:On December 12 2010 04:12 jcarlsoniv wrote:On December 12 2010 04:10 Kenpachi wrote:On December 12 2010 03:39 DCLXVI wrote:
Thank you insanious and tree.hugger, I hope to see more people post like that. I don't understand why people are letting Kenpachi off the hook for bad posting. So what if he has a history of being less than stellar for the town. We cannot allow him to spam and distract the town because even if he isn't mafia, this helps the mafia. He is playing in a way that benefits the mafia, so even if he isn't (though I think he is), he is dangerous for the town. I really don't like the defense used by darth and meepak of "oh, well this is just how he normally plays". Townies don't intentionally hurt the town by doing what kenpachi is doing.
I'll hopefully be back in a bit before the vote ends, but I feel safe in putting my vote on Kenpachi. Every vote on him is a vote to clean up the town. youre dumb. what if i happened to be DT or Medic? Are you claiming DT or medic? no i am not Word. I suppose we'll get treated to angry defending eventually, as he's in the lead right now, but hey, that might be too committed. Alright, I feel like kenpachi is getting way to agressive here. All his post have been aggressive and not helpful in anyway. + Show Spoiler +A) 4 hours does not judge that. what if i went on TL tomorrow for the first time in the past 3 days? B) Anyone who posts would want to look active.. Why would they post if they want to look inactive? C) Why are you assuming i read the rules? how do you know i didnt just assume the KP? D) It doesnt. shh E) ?? its enlightenment F) I dont agree with you voting for Infundibulum. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=174831¤tpage=14#270When he starts saying, that why do people assume that he reads the rules, makes me question him. Everyone reads the rules and we know this because that's part of the game. If he's saying he doesn't that just seems phishy to me imo. I also feel like, he posted the DT or Medic theory in order to try and get some people off of his case cause he can possibly be a TR member. I've seen this happen plenty of times where they pull out the "I might be a DT or Medic" and they end up not being it. My two cents, maybe I am wrong, but this is what I've been able to read off of. Very problemic analysis. Firstly, it doesn’t take an actual position. All it’s saying is “everyone else seems to be voting kenpachi so I’ll join in”. Lets take a look at his points 1) Kenpachi doesn't read the rules. Therefore he is scum. 2) Kenpachi soft claimed blue. Therefore he is scum There are two big problems. 1) Not reading the rules doesn't mean you are scum. It just means that you didn’t read the rules. 2) Kenpachi did not soft claim blue. On December 15 2010 04:34 ShoCkeyy wrote:
Quoted text
Well my reasoning on voting for Gabriel was because in the first round he dodged my vote by the way kenpachi was acting, but then seeing jcarl go now and both of them being Gabriels prime targets in the beginning kinda made me switch over to them. Either way, I find it funny that you only target a quite few of us when actually there is A LOT of people missing that are not posting at all. To name some more, Amber[Light], Tube?... Why don't you target them as well? I don't understand why would you just target a select few of us instead of them and then JUST target me right after wards. I've been busy and reading up on what I could and making my voice count when needed and voting when I needed to.
Interesting defense. Immediately he starts attacking the person who pointed out that he wasn't doing anything. And these aren't actually good attacks. Take note that Amber[Light] and Tube were pretty active day 1. Secondly I could and making my voice count when needed Is just lol ShoCkeyy has been incredibly self centered. He does nothing but protect himself and justify However. every single one of his posts today were either defending himself, or attacking the people questioning him. Instead of not taking a position. ShoCkey starts going all out, accusing everyone. Doing anything he can to try to not become lynched. This is completely different from the ShoCkeyy we know. This could be an overdefensive townie. But far more likely it is a mafia trying not to attract attention day 1. Thirdly: ShoCkeyy had made no mention of Zeks.This is the most important subject today, and he still hasn't talked about Zeks? ShoCkeyy is obviously cutting ties because he knows that Zeks is green. + Show Spoiler +If Zeks is green, lynch ShoCkeyy
On December 15 2010 11:46 LSB wrote:ShoCkey Previous Game Analysis Caller's Red Army Mafyia: Role: Medic Posted 99% one liners. Got angry and warned for flaming. Mafia XVI: Role: Townie: Takes positions, especially on Xelin. Defends himself mostly civily. Mostly one-liners. + Show Spoiler +On January 21 2010 08:41 ShoCkeyy wrote:Show nested quote +On January 21 2010 08:34 QuickStriker wrote:On January 21 2010 08:21 ShoCkeyy wrote:On January 21 2010 08:17 QuickStriker wrote:On January 21 2010 08:14 ShoCkeyy wrote:
O_o we haven't started yet right? Uhh... yes we did??? And like no one is around to discuss and talk about the game in contrast to the other mafia game where it's way more active.... =/ Well I posted in the voting thread already since I couldn't find it till now ._. Hmm... well welcome!!! Glad to have at least one more active member of our little town.... it seems the mafias have put some poison gas or some sort of gas which is why everyone is silent or sleeping right now.... o.O Well QuickStriker, I will support you in this. I don't think you're the Mafia. Show nested quote +On January 20 2010 17:01 XeliN wrote:On January 20 2010 12:52 no_re wrote:Well hi everyone, my first mafia game, not entirely sure how it works so bare with me if Im doing it wrong, however relating to the "clues" posted everyday here is what I got from the above entry. My first thought when dissecting the post was this rather obvious quote: With a quick attack, the Sheriff Ace collapsed to the ground. A quick attack? Well with a player named QuickStriker in the game this looks like a kind of obvious clue. Also he was the first to respond to the first Sheriff Candidacy anouncement of Fulgrim, drawing attention to himself being "amused" by Fulgrim's "I'm not a mafia" comment. This intruiged me. I think that analysis overall was extremely good, from reading up on some earlier Mafia games it seems that the host often likes the come up with elaborate or entertaining deaths. This in itself makes the " With a quick attack " stand out far more in my eyes, and somewhat exonerates the other as possibly just being a whimsical choice by the host. In all honesty this by itself is enough to make me fairly suspicious and Quickstriker I am still more suspicious when I see some of what you have typed. In particular your reaction to no_re's non-serious accusation where you are essentially saying we must "hold off any action untill the DT comes forward and leads us through the valley of death and into the promised land" - I paraphrased, This however, as far as I can tell is an exceptionally bad strategy, the point of electing a mayor or sherrif is someone who seems active, discerning and importantly decisive, and your suggestion of sit and wait reeks to me on manipulation at an early stage. p.s. am i doin it rite? I think Xelin is the Mafia. He's already accusing you of being mafia even though the game hasn't started. Not only that, he's trying to submit himself as the Mayor, trying to find his way around from being lynched off. He knows that if he is able to be the mayor, then we're screwed. On January 21 2010 09:38 ShoCkeyy wrote:
Hmm, I don't like this whole vote for me thing. Seems fishy, and especially the way he words it. He tries to win you over, so he can make sure he wins. I like his style no lie. But I won't be able to vote for him. Laaan, sorry, but my vote remains the same.
All you out of towners better stay in ya'll wreckin area. We don't like you hippie folks round hea. On January 22 2010 00:30 ShoCkeyy wrote:
Ok, so I see some of you think I should be lynched. Well for one, I'm typing off my phone, so bare with me. Second, I voted for quikstriker, cause he seems like the right canidate for the mayor position out of everyone else here who is trying to be mayor. I rather choose some one who didn't impose themselves into trying to be mayor. Brings me to my reason as to why I would want xelin lynched.
Xelin saw that quikstriker was being the most helpful in this thread. He didn't like that, so he quickly picks quikstriker to be lynched. Then soon after post that he wants to be mayor, the reason as to why I don't want to vote for some one that says "I'm running for mayor." They seem more fake than anybody else here. Now I can tell you, I vote for xelin to be lynched 75% of the way.
The other 25% go to those who are quietly coming in that have watched us argue about who to lynch first. I feel like they watched us bicker to see and now that we have some what of an idea who we're going to lynch first. Now the mafia come in to back them up so we an lynch a townie. Which brings me to my other conclusion. Decafchicken I'm watching you. And one more that Shockeyy left out TL Mafia XVIII: Role: Mafia: Shockey was under heavy clue suspicion. He responded mostly civilly. However, most noticeably Shockey has essentially only one post that isn't either spam or defending himself (included below). Shockey shys away from taking any positions, besides defending himself. + Show Spoiler +On February 28 2010 07:30 ShoCkeyy wrote:
I think it's pretty clear right now that the town should not be voting to kill Scamp. He is right in that at best all L has is some shaky clue analysis. In fact, most of L's clue analysis is directed at other players (Chez, johnny, me) and not at Scamp, go read his posts if you don't believe me.
Something I've noticed is that Scamp has actually taken the time to legitimately defend himself. I remember when we were going to lynch Mystlord, he hardly said a thing and most of what he said only incriminated him more. Right now the only thing incriminating Scamp is L. Also when QS was going to be lynched he came up with the stupid modkill plan that had no way working. Scamp hasn't tried to pull anything of that caliber. It seems to me he's arguing as a townsperson.
To the town, L has already convinced you to lynch our Mayor/medic. What's going to happen when Scamp turns up innocent? We'll be in a bigger mindfuck than we are right now. tree.hugger is clearly the safer vote right now. It's no doubt that if Scamp does not get lynched, L will continue to incriminate him. If Scamp is indeed mafia, he's going to slip up somewhere. Do you agree? Or any objections?
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I would like to encourage everyone to vote for the double lynch because this increases Town KP. And Town KP is always better than Mafia/SK KP
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responses bolded
On December 17 2010 01:18 Insanious wrote:Here's my long analysis done on DCLXVI, I said I would do one on him and Eiii. I just didn't have the time, then DCLXVI called me out for it and did an analysis on me... so here we go. + Show Spoiler +On December 10 2010 15:09 DCLXVI wrote:
Alright just read the thread. All I have to say is fuck you Team Rocket, Oak is the best character in the game. How did TR even manage to sneak up on him? Oak can tell from halfway around the world when you get on a bike, but he can't see a few clumsy TR members?
Seriously though, I am confused by gabriel. he makes some decent points about hesmyrr looking active but no content and infund's poor logic, but then he supports his points terribly. He attacks everyone who responds to him and then ragequits. Then the people he attacked + brocket vote him. Not sure if brocket is a newbie or is scum jumping on a free bandwagon. I need to read though the thread a few times more to get a clear view of what is going on, but I would like to hear some more posts on why gabriel/brocket/hesmyrr/infund are posting the way they are, not just people jumping on one side or the other. Trying to deflect attention by saying that he came in late, didn't pay attention, and needs to read the thread. Then he FoS's 4 people with no analysis saying that he needs to read the thread before he can analyze anyone... so if he hasn't read the thread thoroughly how can you accurately FoS people, and why should we even listen to your FoS's without any analysis done at all. Then you don't even read the thread, you just disapear for a day and a half... (December 10 15:09 -> December 12 3:39). Hey look, you said "I'll do analysis" then you didn't analyze anyone. On December 12 2010 03:39 DCLXVI wrote:
Thank you insanious and tree.hugger, I hope to see more people post like that. I don't understand why people are letting Kenpachi off the hook for bad posting. So what if he has a history of being less than stellar for the town. We cannot allow him to spam and distract the town because even if he isn't mafia, this helps the mafia. He is playing in a way that benefits the mafia, so even if he isn't (though I think he is), he is dangerous for the town. I really don't like the defense used by darth and meepak of "oh, well this is just how he normally plays". Townies don't intentionally hurt the town by doing what kenpachi is doing.
I'll hopefully be back in a bit before the vote ends, but I feel safe in putting my vote on Kenpachi. Every vote on him is a vote to clean up the town. Ok, so in this post your saying that I post well, but then in your analysis you say that I don't post well at all... Also not that you haven't posted in 2 days, you just pop up and go "Well done people, your looking good hunting Kenpachi, lets continue to kill this guy who posts poorly." In your post about me, you make it seem like I should of known Kenpachi was town, and not voted for him. Here, you are congratulating my posting and saying Kenpachi needs to die... Why such a turn? On December 12 2010 13:13 DCLXVI wrote:Show nested quote +On December 12 2010 13:02 Gabriel wrote:the fuck now we have to deal with rol  Uhhh, what? RoL is good, a good sign for the town. Not to mention we didn't lose one to a modkill. Whose side are you on? Alright, so you come back 10 hours later in order to say "hey guys, look at Gabriel", with no content at all. On December 12 2010 15:21 DCLXVI wrote:Show nested quote +On December 12 2010 14:44 chaoser wrote:
Guys...for everyone who played Salem...that's just how he plays -_- he was playing the exact same way he did in Salem, if he was mafia there would have been slight differences -_-. No comment. I did my best, I have no regrets Seriously though, I do not regret voting Kenpachi. He was distracting the thread from focusing on possible scum and was posting no relevant information. This does not help the town at all, and we were lucky that he was not a blue. Just because he normally acts scummy does not give him the right to post scummy. It would have been so easy for him to hide behind your terrible defense of him if he was mafia, and we cannot allow that to happen. @Meepak - Why do you want to vote for zeks or gabriel? Do you suspect mafia bandwagoned Kenpachi to save a teammate? Which one of them do you suspect more and why? Please answer these sorts of questions instead of posting accusatory one liners all the time. I was ready to write up a nice long post about the different people who defended kenpachi, but now that he has flipped green I need to rethink my arguments. Sorry for the lack of activity recently, let me sleep and in the morning I'll start pointing some fingers.  Here there are a few problems that I see. "I did my best, I have no regrets" - You didn't analyze Kenpachi at all, you didn't contribute to his lynching, and yet you are taking part of the blame... you bandwaggoned onto him because my Tree.Hugger (blue) and my post. You even said above that it was because of me and Tree.Hugger that you voted Kenpachi. Then you say that voting town that act scummy is ok, because it helps the town get rid of distractions, but in the thread people have been lambasting people for saying the same thing... surprised you got away unscathed. Then again, for the 3rd time, you go "Hey guys, look at someone who isn't me, why? Well I have no analysis, but I'm leaving for 10+ hours" You say you are going to analyze people, but never do. It makes it seem like you are contributing to lynches but aren't. On December 13 2010 12:33 DCLXVI wrote:
Couldn't a chansey save tree.hugger's target too? And I am confused by the four bodies, three dead peolpe part too. Can you explain please Dr. H? Question, can't lambast you too badly for it. Most people we're thinking the same thing, someone needed to ask it. Although, you called me out for asking questions in the thread (that if you payed attention to the posts around those questions, you would realize more than 1 other person was wondering the same thing, as such getting answered in the thread helped the town more than just me getting the answer in a PM). Although, why do you call me out for questions when you are posting questions in the thread too? You could of PM'ed DcH, he would of answered you if he could, seeing how he posted in the thread, he could have. On December 15 2010 05:23 DCLXVI wrote:
With the number of swing votes that happened last time, I think that it is very likely that some scum jumped on the kenpachi bandwagon to save zeks. Not that Gabriel is posting any better, but I think that it is more likely that zeks is scum.
@amber
I don't think we analyzed the night actions enough. We barely covered the possibilities of what happened, and didn't bother to speculate which player was killed by mewtwo. That in itself could prove helpful to finding mewtwo, as well as finding scum connected to the other players who died.
and I loled at one inactive accusing another. Here you point fingers at Gabriel, with no analysis, and then jump off to answer a question. Again no real content, just directions that you could have done your self. Also want to point out that here you again disappeared for over a day and a half. December 13 12:333 -> December 15 5:23. So many times that you post, then disappear for 36 hours, seems like a reoccurring event. Looks like you are trying to keep being seen without actually being seen. On December 15 2010 05:39 DCLXVI wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2010 05:31 Brocket wrote:
I guess if a detective (alakazam or mew) wants to check me out that could be productive. I'll show up as either a true townie or a gengar pretending to be one. Chansey's honestly should just use their prevention on whoever they want to keep in and if they decide that they themselves are the most valuable then so be it. Give gabe/zeks a scan too if they survive the day vote and future night attacks.
I could be a blue. Or a townie pretending to be a blue. Would it matter too much to the town if I was killed off by mafia? I sort of think of it as taking one for the team so the blues can get a night off.
I could be mafia. I think I'd like to be just a koffing. I wouldn't know who to sleep as a weezing. I talk a lot as you can see but I try to be productive without any hard evidence (then again who does?).
As far as mewtwo is concerned, he's just a wild card that confuses the night attacks and he's more likely to kill townies than mafia the first few nights until our numbers sufficiently dwindle. Sad but true.
tl,dr; Hey guys I'm trying to confuse the town and withhold information but that's ok because I'm town or maybe I'm not but thats fine maybe blues should do what I tell them but maybe not because that could be bad and maybe mewtwo is bad for us now but good later so lets not worry aboutanything. No real content, just being sarcastic. Especially since if you read the post around Brocket's you would know that he was replying to the conversation around his post, rather then just randomly stating a lot of what he said... maybe if during the 36 hours you were not here you actually read up on the posts, you would actually be useful, instead of trying to get people to FoS Brocket. WoW what another reoccurring theme, not only do you disappear for 36 hour stints, but when you pop up, you FoS active members of the community with no analysis, and then disappear again for someone else to pick up the detective work for you. On December 15 2010 15:54 DCLXVI wrote:@LSB While I like your idea of forming up a list of all the inactive/scummy players and then using dt's (or mad H's) on them, I don't think that it is a viable strategy now. A list like that would have to include around 85% of the players. In fact I'll whip one up right now: + Show Spoiler +1. deconduo
2. BrownBear
3. Eiii
4. GGQ
5. LSB
6. DarthThienAn
7. RebirthOfLeGenD (Pikachu, Night 1 Kill)
8. Amber[LighT]
9. dinmsab
10. jcarlsoniv (Pikachu, Night 1 Kill)
11. DCLXVI
12. Ghrur
13. Kenpachi (Pikachu, Day 1 Lynch)
14. Node
15. KtheZ
16. tube
17. chaoser
18. Oceanic
19. Gabriel
20. Insanious
21. Meapak_Ziphh (Pikachu, Night 1 Kill)
22. Shockeyy
23. seRapH
24. Kavdragon
25. tree.hugger (Electrode, Night 1 Kill
26. Infundibulum
27. Pandain
28. Brocket
29. kitaman27
30. d3_crescentia
31. zeks Right now I am trying to get more active, but as far as I see there are about 5 seriously active players. That is why we cannot have the medics self protect like you asked tonight. Night one mafia+M2 took out 3 of the most active players, and I would bet that they will continue that trend tonight. We desperately need every last active player, so unless the medics themselves are high priority targets for the mafia, they should not self protect. I am not trying to open up the medics to be hit, but lets be reasonable. What motive does the mafia have to try to hit random lurking blues over the few active players? Not to mention if they hit mew, they are pretty much screwed. Medics please decide who you want to live and lead our scum hunting tomorrow, Dts follow your gut, same with electrodes. Vets just be tough It would be nice to have some dt's give us information in 2 days (three night checks) so that we know about 1/2 of the alignments with some room for error with millers / GF / fake claims. We could hope for ~2 scum revealed this way, with maybe one fake claimed scum. (all numbers estimated in my head with my assumptions, check yourself) However I think we need to see how desperate our plight is come that time, maybe it will not be necessary then. On the other hand, Double lynching is becoming increasingly necessary. With our multiple bandwagons forming and splitting each vote, it looks like the mafia is having an easy time pulling votes off their team and sending townies to the noose. If we lose to many more townies tonight we won't be able to control the lynch very well in the coming days. We need to take advantage the DL to try and catch back up against the mafia's kills. That is something we seriously need to consider and vote on tomorrow depending on the night kills and the level of town activity come tomorrow morning. I want to see the night kills before I comment on potential scummy players tomorrow. Good night, and make sure you are well prepared for any multiples of trouble. Once again playing the "Sorry I don't read the thread a lot" card before posting a huge post that is filled with what you think the town should do... and again with no substance or back up. You say "the mafia is killing off active players" well duh, we all knew that. That's why everyone has been telling people to protect active players. "well maybe we should do this, or do this, or do this" with no real reasons why, or how those things will help the town... its a long confusing post that really says nothing. Why do you keep telling people who to lynch and how to act without actually contributing to the thread? No analysis, just FoS and gone. On December 16 2010 03:28 DCLXVI wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2010 22:49 d3_crescentia wrote:
I don't pretend I'm good at analysis; in fact I'm probably trash terrible at it. Shortened because I have to go to work soon -_-
Here's what I noticed about the Zeks list in particular:
- Much of the voting comes from Gabriel's early game analysis of Zeks. While Gabriel himself could be whatever, at least one of his supporters IS scum. Let's work on analyzing Gabriel and his early-game followers.
- The discussion between DCLXVI and chaoser wrt to Kenpachi is particularly telling. Chaoser's defense is along the lines of "Kenpachi just posts that way" while DCLXVI's responses are "yeah but if he WERE mafia it'd be so easy for him to hide!" Something about this just doesn't strike me as particularly innocent on DCLXVI's part, as he seems to be posting an unnecessary defense of himself when Kenpachi died, and a lot of "we should do/have done X" statements recently. His vote for zeks isn't particularly well-justified; in fact it's a bit of a 180-degree turn as he suddenly shifted from "Kenpachi is scum" to "scum must have bandwagoned Kenpachi in the end to save zeks!" (Post on this sometime tonight as well)
Okay, off to work. Hope that's enough for you guys to chew on for tomorrow. Someone else come up with a night plan? In general, Gabriel might be good to check; DTA/Inf as well; DCLXVI cuz I think so. Medics protect who you can/find most compelling. Might as well pull a shockeyy and start defending myself heavily. Next time I would like to see you quote my posts instead of summarizing them tinted heavily from your perspective. If I truly act scummy then there is no need for you to change what my posts say. I voted for kenpachi because he acted scummy and was useless for the town. I said that the defense "well he normally acts scummy" is a terrible defense and we should still lynch him because he acts scummy. Umm, I flipped and thought zeks was highly likely to be scum because I found out that I was wrong day 1 and kenpachi was green? You never have to revise your views of people when we get more information? I didn't think gabe was red (and still don't) and I really didn't like your last minute bandwagon on shockeyy with lsb and amber. That sort of play just screams scum to me. Calling out a bandwagon that never happened (as posted later by other players). You also come back again, saying people are targeted you, but its really only D3 (who subsequently has FoS'ed at least 10 different people this thread if you read it). Now you defend your self without really defending your self... "I voted these guys because they looked scummy, period." no analysis of anything, you can't even point back to a post where you did any analysis all game... Then you FoS D3, LSB, and Amber at the bottom, again with no analysis at all. Just a gut feeling and them voting Shockeyy. On December 16 2010 12:49 DCLXVI wrote:Show nested quote +On December 16 2010 10:19 d3_crescentia wrote:On December 16 2010 03:28 DCLXVI wrote:On December 15 2010 22:49 d3_crescentia wrote:
I don't pretend I'm good at analysis; in fact I'm probably trash terrible at it. Shortened because I have to go to work soon -_-
Here's what I noticed about the Zeks list in particular:
- Much of the voting comes from Gabriel's early game analysis of Zeks. While Gabriel himself could be whatever, at least one of his supporters IS scum. Let's work on analyzing Gabriel and his early-game followers.
- The discussion between DCLXVI and chaoser wrt to Kenpachi is particularly telling. Chaoser's defense is along the lines of "Kenpachi just posts that way" while DCLXVI's responses are "yeah but if he WERE mafia it'd be so easy for him to hide!" Something about this just doesn't strike me as particularly innocent on DCLXVI's part, as he seems to be posting an unnecessary defense of himself when Kenpachi died, and a lot of "we should do/have done X" statements recently. His vote for zeks isn't particularly well-justified; in fact it's a bit of a 180-degree turn as he suddenly shifted from "Kenpachi is scum" to "scum must have bandwagoned Kenpachi in the end to save zeks!" (Post on this sometime tonight as well)
Okay, off to work. Hope that's enough for you guys to chew on for tomorrow. Someone else come up with a night plan? In general, Gabriel might be good to check; DTA/Inf as well; DCLXVI cuz I think so. Medics protect who you can/find most compelling. Might as well pull a shockeyy and start defending myself heavily. Next time I would like to see you quote my posts instead of summarizing them tinted heavily from your perspective. If I truly act scummy then there is no need for you to change what my posts say. I voted for kenpachi because he acted scummy and was useless for the town. I said that the defense "well he normally acts scummy" is a terrible defense and we should still lynch him because he acts scummy. Umm, I flipped and thought zeks was highly likely to be scum because I found out that I was wrong day 1 and kenpachi was green? You never have to revise your views of people when we get more information? I didn't think gabe was red (and still don't) and I really didn't like your last minute bandwagon on shockeyy with lsb and amber. That sort of play just screams scum to me. Okay, I get it. You're just a trash poster, scum or not. WTF? Did you read what I posted? I accuse you of changing the meaning of my posts and you call me a trash poster? How does this have any relevance to what I posted? On December 10 2010 15:09 DCLXVI wrote:
Alright just read the thread. All I have to say is fuck you Team Rocket, Oak is the best character in the game. How did TR even manage to sneak up on him? Oak can tell from halfway around the world when you get on a bike, but he can't see a few clumsy TR members?
Seriously though, I am confused by gabriel. he makes some decent points about hesmyrr looking active but no content and infund's poor logic, but then he supports his points terribly. He attacks everyone who responds to him and then ragequits. Then the people he attacked + brocket vote him. Not sure if brocket is a newbie or is scum jumping on a free bandwagon. I need to read though the thread a few times more to get a clear view of what is going on, but I would like to hear some more posts on why gabriel/brocket/hesmyrr/infund are posting the way they are, not just people jumping on one side or the other. Early in the game - a call for more discussion. This isn't particularly scummy yet. another "trashy" post of course On December 12 2010 03:39 DCLXVI wrote:
Thank you insanious and tree.hugger, I hope to see more people post like that. I don't understand why people are letting Kenpachi off the hook for bad posting. So what if he has a history of being less than stellar for the town. We cannot allow him to spam and distract the town because even if he isn't mafia, this helps the mafia. He is playing in a way that benefits the mafia, so even if he isn't (though I think he is), he is dangerous for the town. I really don't like the defense used by darth and meepak of "oh, well this is just how he normally plays". Townies don't intentionally hurt the town by doing what kenpachi is doing.
I'll hopefully be back in a bit before the vote ends, but I feel safe in putting my vote on Kenpachi. Every vote on him is a vote to clean up the town. Restatement of what tree.hugger/Insanious said; no real contribution of his own. Do you just read the first line of what I post and then ignore the rest? Because that is the only way I can understand what you are talking about. On December 12 2010 15:21 DCLXVI wrote:On December 12 2010 14:44 chaoser wrote:
Guys...for everyone who played Salem...that's just how he plays -_- he was playing the exact same way he did in Salem, if he was mafia there would have been slight differences -_-. No comment. I did my best, I have no regrets Seriously though, I do not regret voting Kenpachi. He was distracting the thread from focusing on possible scum and was posting no relevant information. This does not help the town at all, and we were lucky that he was not a blue. Just because he normally acts scummy does not give him the right to post scummy. It would have been so easy for him to hide behind your terrible defense of him if he was mafia, and we cannot allow that to happen. @Meepak - Why do you want to vote for zeks or gabriel? Do you suspect mafia bandwagoned Kenpachi to save a teammate? Which one of them do you suspect more and why? Please answer these sorts of questions instead of posting accusatory one liners all the time. I was ready to write up a nice long post about the different people who defended kenpachi, but now that he has flipped green I need to rethink my arguments. Sorry for the lack of activity recently, let me sleep and in the morning I'll start pointing some fingers. Post-death justification when one was NOT NEEDED. We all knew Kenpachi was a trash poster in the first place (or at least I did) and that his death would not be missed. No one accused you of anything, so why bother to defend yourself? Because of some inner need to appear innocent at all times, perhaps? NOT NEEDED but asked for, notice I quoted someone who questioned the lynch. I'm sorry for further explaining my rationale behind voting, perhaps next till I will just randomly vote people off a list like you do: On December 14 2010 23:47 d3_crescentia wrote:
##vote: Shockeyy On December 15 2010 05:23 DCLXVI wrote:
With the number of swing votes that happened last time, I think that it is very likely that some scum jumped on the kenpachi bandwagon to save zeks. Not that Gabriel is posting any better, but I think that it is more likely that zeks is scum.
@amber
I don't think we analyzed the night actions enough. We barely covered the possibilities of what happened, and didn't bother to speculate which player was killed by mewtwo. That in itself could prove helpful to finding mewtwo, as well as finding scum connected to the other players who died.
and I loled at one inactive accusing another. And for those of us that have some BRAINS we realized that Zeks fell into the same category of posting as Kenpachi - trash terrible, but nonetheless a waste of a lynch. Also, if you bothered to do any THINKING at all you'd realize that it's in the best interest of Mewtwo to play town-aligned in the early game. Why are you interested in finding Mewtwo unless you were RED and worried about yourself? Maybe if you had some FORESIGHT you could've prepared better for losing mew. Now it will be even harder for us to find mewtwo, especially since people like you try to stop any town discussion like this. Notice the town cannot win with mewtwo alive, so while it might be in M2's best interest to appear townie, the town still needs to kill him. Why are you so scared of us finding mewtwo? Is that your role? On December 15 2010 05:39 DCLXVI wrote:On December 15 2010 05:31 Brocket wrote:
I guess if a detective (alakazam or mew) wants to check me out that could be productive. I'll show up as either a true townie or a gengar pretending to be one. Chansey's honestly should just use their prevention on whoever they want to keep in and if they decide that they themselves are the most valuable then so be it. Give gabe/zeks a scan too if they survive the day vote and future night attacks.
I could be a blue. Or a townie pretending to be a blue. Would it matter too much to the town if I was killed off by mafia? I sort of think of it as taking one for the team so the blues can get a night off.
I could be mafia. I think I'd like to be just a koffing. I wouldn't know who to sleep as a weezing. I talk a lot as you can see but I try to be productive without any hard evidence (then again who does?).
As far as mewtwo is concerned, he's just a wild card that confuses the night attacks and he's more likely to kill townies than mafia the first few nights until our numbers sufficiently dwindle. Sad but true.
tl,dr; Hey guys I'm trying to confuse the town and withhold information but that's ok because I'm town or maybe I'm not but thats fine maybe blues should do what I tell them but maybe not because that could be bad and maybe mewtwo is bad for us now but good later so lets not worry aboutanything. Nice, finally some condescension. Too bad it isn't an actual push for a lynch. If you're not scum you're still being too fucking lazy about this, and if you are - well, that's the perfect level of sneerage to detract from your own posting. Maybe if you had some BRAINS you could've noticed the sarcasm in the post, pointing to the uselessness of brocket's post. I guess things like this are too subtle for players of your caliber. On December 15 2010 15:54 DCLXVI wrote:@LSB While I like your idea of forming up a list of all the inactive/scummy players and then using dt's (or mad H's) on them, I don't think that it is a viable strategy now. A list like that would have to include around 85% of the players. In fact I'll whip one up right now: + Show Spoiler +1. deconduo
2. BrownBear
3. Eiii
4. GGQ
5. LSB
6. DarthThienAn
7. RebirthOfLeGenD (Pikachu, Night 1 Kill)
8. Amber[LighT]
9. dinmsab
10. jcarlsoniv (Pikachu, Night 1 Kill)
11. DCLXVI
12. Ghrur
13. Kenpachi (Pikachu, Day 1 Lynch)
14. Node
15. KtheZ
16. tube
17. chaoser
18. Oceanic
19. Gabriel
20. Insanious
21. Meapak_Ziphh (Pikachu, Night 1 Kill)
22. Shockeyy
23. seRapH
24. Kavdragon
25. tree.hugger (Electrode, Night 1 Kill
26. Infundibulum
27. Pandain
28. Brocket
29. kitaman27
30. d3_crescentia
31. zeks Right now I am trying to get more active, but as far as I see there are about 5 seriously active players. That is why we cannot have the medics self protect like you asked tonight. Night one mafia+M2 took out 3 of the most active players, and I would bet that they will continue that trend tonight. We desperately need every last active player, so unless the medics themselves are high priority targets for the mafia, they should not self protect. I am not trying to open up the medics to be hit, but lets be reasonable. What motive does the mafia have to try to hit random lurking blues over the few active players? Not to mention if they hit mew, they are pretty much screwed. Medics please decide who you want to live and lead our scum hunting tomorrow, Dts follow your gut, same with electrodes. Vets just be tough It would be nice to have some dt's give us information in 2 days (three night checks) so that we know about 1/2 of the alignments with some room for error with millers / GF / fake claims. We could hope for ~2 scum revealed this way, with maybe one fake claimed scum. (all numbers estimated in my head with my assumptions, check yourself) However I think we need to see how desperate our plight is come that time, maybe it will not be necessary then. On the other hand, Double lynching is becoming increasingly necessary. With our multiple bandwagons forming and splitting each vote, it looks like the mafia is having an easy time pulling votes off their team and sending townies to the noose. If we lose to many more townies tonight we won't be able to control the lynch very well in the coming days. We need to take advantage the DL to try and catch back up against the mafia's kills. That is something we seriously need to consider and vote on tomorrow depending on the night kills and the level of town activity come tomorrow morning. I want to see the night kills before I comment on potential scummy players tomorrow. Good night, and make sure you are well prepared for any multiples of trouble. Nice general advice. Doesn't really say much except "Maybe on Day 5 DTs should reveal all they know," not accounting for the fact that the Mafia will target those that the DTs check. Maybe the DTs will check inactive players, but what's to stop the mafia from counterclaiming with their own fake DT and sowing more chaos? There needs to be a better plan than just "in 3 days let's reveal." Of course, I realize that you yourself don't have much confidence in this plan of yours, seeing as how it's just plain terrible for town. Or you might just be TR putting thoughts in our mind. So step up and defend yourself, or I'll be putting my vote on you first thing come Day. Yeah I guess I don't say much besides criticizing LSB's plan and commenting on the double lynch benefits and outline a decent plan for the medics to follow (which they didn't, and now we lost more active townies ). I guess I should post more like you: Show nested quote +On December 16 2010 10:39 d3_crescentia wrote:On December 16 2010 10:35 LSB wrote:
If I die, check out Shocky, D3, and Brocket I'm pretty sure I'm not TR. The other two might be worth a look though. And you call my posts trashy. All of my posts at least have a reason behind them, as I, unlike you, don't feel the need to spam to seem active and townie. So in an effort to be a better townie should I go back and summarize your posts however I like, call you an idiot, and then try to start a bandwagon on you? Because that seems like one of the scummiest plans I can think of, but you manage to pull it off and people think you are one of the towniest of us all. Here you are participating in a flame war with d3... not helping the town at all. You don't even analyze d3 who's calling you out and posting a thread filled with rage and not logic... why are you giving no one any information... On December 16 2010 13:08 DCLXVI wrote:Show nested quote +On December 16 2010 12:58 d3_crescentia wrote:On December 16 2010 12:49 DCLXVI wrote:On December 16 2010 10:19 d3_crescentia wrote:On December 16 2010 03:28 DCLXVI wrote:On December 15 2010 22:49 d3_crescentia wrote:
I don't pretend I'm good at analysis; in fact I'm probably trash terrible at it. Shortened because I have to go to work soon -_-
Here's what I noticed about the Zeks list in particular:
- Much of the voting comes from Gabriel's early game analysis of Zeks. While Gabriel himself could be whatever, at least one of his supporters IS scum. Let's work on analyzing Gabriel and his early-game followers.
- The discussion between DCLXVI and chaoser wrt to Kenpachi is particularly telling. Chaoser's defense is along the lines of "Kenpachi just posts that way" while DCLXVI's responses are "yeah but if he WERE mafia it'd be so easy for him to hide!" Something about this just doesn't strike me as particularly innocent on DCLXVI's part, as he seems to be posting an unnecessary defense of himself when Kenpachi died, and a lot of "we should do/have done X" statements recently. His vote for zeks isn't particularly well-justified; in fact it's a bit of a 180-degree turn as he suddenly shifted from "Kenpachi is scum" to "scum must have bandwagoned Kenpachi in the end to save zeks!" (Post on this sometime tonight as well)
Okay, off to work. Hope that's enough for you guys to chew on for tomorrow. Someone else come up with a night plan? In general, Gabriel might be good to check; DTA/Inf as well; DCLXVI cuz I think so. Medics protect who you can/find most compelling. Might as well pull a shockeyy and start defending myself heavily. Next time I would like to see you quote my posts instead of summarizing them tinted heavily from your perspective. If I truly act scummy then there is no need for you to change what my posts say. I voted for kenpachi because he acted scummy and was useless for the town. I said that the defense "well he normally acts scummy" is a terrible defense and we should still lynch him because he acts scummy. Umm, I flipped and thought zeks was highly likely to be scum because I found out that I was wrong day 1 and kenpachi was green? You never have to revise your views of people when we get more information? I didn't think gabe was red (and still don't) and I really didn't like your last minute bandwagon on shockeyy with lsb and amber. That sort of play just screams scum to me. Okay, I get it. You're just a trash poster, scum or not. WTF? Did you read what I posted? I accuse you of changing the meaning of my posts and you call me a trash poster? How does this have any relevance to what I posted? On December 10 2010 15:09 DCLXVI wrote:
Alright just read the thread. All I have to say is fuck you Team Rocket, Oak is the best character in the game. How did TR even manage to sneak up on him? Oak can tell from halfway around the world when you get on a bike, but he can't see a few clumsy TR members?
Seriously though, I am confused by gabriel. he makes some decent points about hesmyrr looking active but no content and infund's poor logic, but then he supports his points terribly. He attacks everyone who responds to him and then ragequits. Then the people he attacked + brocket vote him. Not sure if brocket is a newbie or is scum jumping on a free bandwagon. I need to read though the thread a few times more to get a clear view of what is going on, but I would like to hear some more posts on why gabriel/brocket/hesmyrr/infund are posting the way they are, not just people jumping on one side or the other. Early in the game - a call for more discussion. This isn't particularly scummy yet. another "trashy" post of course On December 12 2010 03:39 DCLXVI wrote:
Thank you insanious and tree.hugger, I hope to see more people post like that. I don't understand why people are letting Kenpachi off the hook for bad posting. So what if he has a history of being less than stellar for the town. We cannot allow him to spam and distract the town because even if he isn't mafia, this helps the mafia. He is playing in a way that benefits the mafia, so even if he isn't (though I think he is), he is dangerous for the town. I really don't like the defense used by darth and meepak of "oh, well this is just how he normally plays". Townies don't intentionally hurt the town by doing what kenpachi is doing.
I'll hopefully be back in a bit before the vote ends, but I feel safe in putting my vote on Kenpachi. Every vote on him is a vote to clean up the town. Restatement of what tree.hugger/Insanious said; no real contribution of his own. Do you just read the first line of what I post and then ignore the rest? Because that is the only way I can understand what you are talking about. On December 12 2010 15:21 DCLXVI wrote:On December 12 2010 14:44 chaoser wrote:
Guys...for everyone who played Salem...that's just how he plays -_- he was playing the exact same way he did in Salem, if he was mafia there would have been slight differences -_-. No comment. I did my best, I have no regrets Seriously though, I do not regret voting Kenpachi. He was distracting the thread from focusing on possible scum and was posting no relevant information. This does not help the town at all, and we were lucky that he was not a blue. Just because he normally acts scummy does not give him the right to post scummy. It would have been so easy for him to hide behind your terrible defense of him if he was mafia, and we cannot allow that to happen. @Meepak - Why do you want to vote for zeks or gabriel? Do you suspect mafia bandwagoned Kenpachi to save a teammate? Which one of them do you suspect more and why? Please answer these sorts of questions instead of posting accusatory one liners all the time. I was ready to write up a nice long post about the different people who defended kenpachi, but now that he has flipped green I need to rethink my arguments. Sorry for the lack of activity recently, let me sleep and in the morning I'll start pointing some fingers. Post-death justification when one was NOT NEEDED. We all knew Kenpachi was a trash poster in the first place (or at least I did) and that his death would not be missed. No one accused you of anything, so why bother to defend yourself? Because of some inner need to appear innocent at all times, perhaps? NOT NEEDED but asked for, notice I quoted someone who questioned the lynch. I'm sorry for further explaining my rationale behind voting, perhaps next till I will just randomly vote people off a list like you do: On December 14 2010 23:47 d3_crescentia wrote:
##vote: Shockeyy On December 15 2010 05:23 DCLXVI wrote:
With the number of swing votes that happened last time, I think that it is very likely that some scum jumped on the kenpachi bandwagon to save zeks. Not that Gabriel is posting any better, but I think that it is more likely that zeks is scum.
@amber
I don't think we analyzed the night actions enough. We barely covered the possibilities of what happened, and didn't bother to speculate which player was killed by mewtwo. That in itself could prove helpful to finding mewtwo, as well as finding scum connected to the other players who died.
and I loled at one inactive accusing another. And for those of us that have some BRAINS we realized that Zeks fell into the same category of posting as Kenpachi - trash terrible, but nonetheless a waste of a lynch. Also, if you bothered to do any THINKING at all you'd realize that it's in the best interest of Mewtwo to play town-aligned in the early game. Why are you interested in finding Mewtwo unless you were RED and worried about yourself? Maybe if you had some FORESIGHT you could've prepared better for losing mew. Now it will be even harder for us to find mewtwo, especially since people like you try to stop any town discussion like this. Notice the town cannot win with mewtwo alive, so while it might be in M2's best interest to appear townie, the town still needs to kill him. Why are you so scared of us finding mewtwo? Is that your role? On December 15 2010 05:39 DCLXVI wrote:On December 15 2010 05:31 Brocket wrote:
I guess if a detective (alakazam or mew) wants to check me out that could be productive. I'll show up as either a true townie or a gengar pretending to be one. Chansey's honestly should just use their prevention on whoever they want to keep in and if they decide that they themselves are the most valuable then so be it. Give gabe/zeks a scan too if they survive the day vote and future night attacks.
I could be a blue. Or a townie pretending to be a blue. Would it matter too much to the town if I was killed off by mafia? I sort of think of it as taking one for the team so the blues can get a night off.
I could be mafia. I think I'd like to be just a koffing. I wouldn't know who to sleep as a weezing. I talk a lot as you can see but I try to be productive without any hard evidence (then again who does?).
As far as mewtwo is concerned, he's just a wild card that confuses the night attacks and he's more likely to kill townies than mafia the first few nights until our numbers sufficiently dwindle. Sad but true.
tl,dr; Hey guys I'm trying to confuse the town and withhold information but that's ok because I'm town or maybe I'm not but thats fine maybe blues should do what I tell them but maybe not because that could be bad and maybe mewtwo is bad for us now but good later so lets not worry aboutanything. Nice, finally some condescension. Too bad it isn't an actual push for a lynch. If you're not scum you're still being too fucking lazy about this, and if you are - well, that's the perfect level of sneerage to detract from your own posting. Maybe if you had some BRAINS you could've noticed the sarcasm in the post, pointing to the uselessness of brocket's post. I guess things like this are too subtle for players of your caliber. On December 15 2010 15:54 DCLXVI wrote:@LSB While I like your idea of forming up a list of all the inactive/scummy players and then using dt's (or mad H's) on them, I don't think that it is a viable strategy now. A list like that would have to include around 85% of the players. In fact I'll whip one up right now: + Show Spoiler +1. deconduo
2. BrownBear
3. Eiii
4. GGQ
5. LSB
6. DarthThienAn
7. RebirthOfLeGenD (Pikachu, Night 1 Kill)
8. Amber[LighT]
9. dinmsab
10. jcarlsoniv (Pikachu, Night 1 Kill)
11. DCLXVI
12. Ghrur
13. Kenpachi (Pikachu, Day 1 Lynch)
14. Node
15. KtheZ
16. tube
17. chaoser
18. Oceanic
19. Gabriel
20. Insanious
21. Meapak_Ziphh (Pikachu, Night 1 Kill)
22. Shockeyy
23. seRapH
24. Kavdragon
25. tree.hugger (Electrode, Night 1 Kill
26. Infundibulum
27. Pandain
28. Brocket
29. kitaman27
30. d3_crescentia
31. zeks Right now I am trying to get more active, but as far as I see there are about 5 seriously active players. That is why we cannot have the medics self protect like you asked tonight. Night one mafia+M2 took out 3 of the most active players, and I would bet that they will continue that trend tonight. We desperately need every last active player, so unless the medics themselves are high priority targets for the mafia, they should not self protect. I am not trying to open up the medics to be hit, but lets be reasonable. What motive does the mafia have to try to hit random lurking blues over the few active players? Not to mention if they hit mew, they are pretty much screwed. Medics please decide who you want to live and lead our scum hunting tomorrow, Dts follow your gut, same with electrodes. Vets just be tough It would be nice to have some dt's give us information in 2 days (three night checks) so that we know about 1/2 of the alignments with some room for error with millers / GF / fake claims. We could hope for ~2 scum revealed this way, with maybe one fake claimed scum. (all numbers estimated in my head with my assumptions, check yourself) However I think we need to see how desperate our plight is come that time, maybe it will not be necessary then. On the other hand, Double lynching is becoming increasingly necessary. With our multiple bandwagons forming and splitting each vote, it looks like the mafia is having an easy time pulling votes off their team and sending townies to the noose. If we lose to many more townies tonight we won't be able to control the lynch very well in the coming days. We need to take advantage the DL to try and catch back up against the mafia's kills. That is something we seriously need to consider and vote on tomorrow depending on the night kills and the level of town activity come tomorrow morning. I want to see the night kills before I comment on potential scummy players tomorrow. Good night, and make sure you are well prepared for any multiples of trouble. Nice general advice. Doesn't really say much except "Maybe on Day 5 DTs should reveal all they know," not accounting for the fact that the Mafia will target those that the DTs check. Maybe the DTs will check inactive players, but what's to stop the mafia from counterclaiming with their own fake DT and sowing more chaos? There needs to be a better plan than just "in 3 days let's reveal." Of course, I realize that you yourself don't have much confidence in this plan of yours, seeing as how it's just plain terrible for town. Or you might just be TR putting thoughts in our mind. So step up and defend yourself, or I'll be putting my vote on you first thing come Day. Yeah I guess I don't say much besides criticizing LSB's plan and commenting on the double lynch benefits and outline a decent plan for the medics to follow (which they didn't, and now we lost more active townies ). I guess I should post more like you: On December 16 2010 10:39 d3_crescentia wrote:On December 16 2010 10:35 LSB wrote:
If I die, check out Shocky, D3, and Brocket I'm pretty sure I'm not TR. The other two might be worth a look though. And you call my posts trashy. All of my posts at least have a reason behind them, as I, unlike you, don't feel the need to spam to seem active and townie. So in an effort to be a better townie should I go back and summarize your posts however I like, call you an idiot, and then try to start a bandwagon on you? Because that seems like one of the scummiest plans I can think of, but you manage to pull it off and people think you are one of the towniest of us all. Congratulations on returning fire; don't you feel GREAT about yourself now that you've contributed a post that amounts to a "NO U"? I'm sorry, "medics protect who you think you should" isn't telling them anything they don't know already. Post some real content for fuck's sake, because criticism and disagreement means jack shit unless you provide alternatives. If you haven't noticed, I'm trying to get town back on the right track, whereas all you do is whine about how I've mischaracterized you instead of contributing. Go analyze some other people, unless you're too scared to out your scum buddies. You don't seem to understand that I am calling you out for doing a terrible analysis. You are not helping the town by doing so. Once again you take half of what I say and turn it to fit your fancy. I asked for the medics to protect the town leaders over themselves, READ MY POSTS. Also, what happened to the rest of your "analysis"? I'm just right so you ignore it and flame me? Why don't you post some REAL content instead of calling for everyone else to do it instead? Funny, "why don't you post real content" why don't you DCL? I mean really... here you call out d3 for terrible analysis when you have done 0 analysis all game. At least d3 is trying, heck even if he is mafia at least the town gets some information even if skewed, at least this gives the town paths to go down. You have done nothing to help the town at all, and your most recent posts have been nothing but flaming your accuser. You haven't analyzed anything that has been said against you just quoted the whole post and went "LoL flamer" On December 16 2010 13:20 DCLXVI wrote:Show nested quote +On December 16 2010 13:16 kitaman27 wrote:On December 14 2010 14:33 Gabriel wrote:
TWO:
Hesmyrr is claiming now. That can still be a mafia ploy so i find interesting that he "just" claimed now. Ill just let it go for now. Hesmyrrs replacement is by no means cleared yet.
Now that Hesmyrr/Pandain has taken the second hit, we know that he was indeed telling the truth. Here Gabriel discredits the hit claim to prevent the existence of a town confirmed member. Why would Hesmyrr claim taking a hit if he was mafia? That doesn't make sense. While I believe he stated that in a poor manner, Gabriel is technically right, however unlikely the situation is. Hesmyrr could have been mewtwo, which would be a great way to get into the town's confirmed list. Mafia could've stacked hits on someone, then had hesmyrr claim, to get him confirmed. While both options are highly unlikely, there are possibilities. Highly likely but not fully confirmed would've been a better way to put it. Pulling out random conspiracy theories... although possible, I think few mafia would of thought to do anything like this... especially since they are so close to winning, they don't need to hide when the town is so fractured. But w/e, guess your post just says "don't trust anyone" which we already knew... On December 16 2010 13:54 DCLXVI wrote:Show nested quote +On December 16 2010 13:30 d3_crescentia wrote:On December 16 2010 13:08 DCLXVI wrote:On December 16 2010 12:58 d3_crescentia wrote:On December 16 2010 12:49 DCLXVI wrote:On December 16 2010 10:19 d3_crescentia wrote:On December 16 2010 03:28 DCLXVI wrote:On December 15 2010 22:49 d3_crescentia wrote:
I don't pretend I'm good at analysis; in fact I'm probably trash terrible at it. Shortened because I have to go to work soon -_-
Here's what I noticed about the Zeks list in particular:
- Much of the voting comes from Gabriel's early game analysis of Zeks. While Gabriel himself could be whatever, at least one of his supporters IS scum. Let's work on analyzing Gabriel and his early-game followers.
- The discussion between DCLXVI and chaoser wrt to Kenpachi is particularly telling. Chaoser's defense is along the lines of "Kenpachi just posts that way" while DCLXVI's responses are "yeah but if he WERE mafia it'd be so easy for him to hide!" Something about this just doesn't strike me as particularly innocent on DCLXVI's part, as he seems to be posting an unnecessary defense of himself when Kenpachi died, and a lot of "we should do/have done X" statements recently. His vote for zeks isn't particularly well-justified; in fact it's a bit of a 180-degree turn as he suddenly shifted from "Kenpachi is scum" to "scum must have bandwagoned Kenpachi in the end to save zeks!" (Post on this sometime tonight as well)
Okay, off to work. Hope that's enough for you guys to chew on for tomorrow. Someone else come up with a night plan? In general, Gabriel might be good to check; DTA/Inf as well; DCLXVI cuz I think so. Medics protect who you can/find most compelling. Might as well pull a shockeyy and start defending myself heavily. Next time I would like to see you quote my posts instead of summarizing them tinted heavily from your perspective. If I truly act scummy then there is no need for you to change what my posts say. I voted for kenpachi because he acted scummy and was useless for the town. I said that the defense "well he normally acts scummy" is a terrible defense and we should still lynch him because he acts scummy. Umm, I flipped and thought zeks was highly likely to be scum because I found out that I was wrong day 1 and kenpachi was green? You never have to revise your views of people when we get more information? I didn't think gabe was red (and still don't) and I really didn't like your last minute bandwagon on shockeyy with lsb and amber. That sort of play just screams scum to me. Okay, I get it. You're just a trash poster, scum or not. WTF? Did you read what I posted? I accuse you of changing the meaning of my posts and you call me a trash poster? How does this have any relevance to what I posted? On December 10 2010 15:09 DCLXVI wrote:
Alright just read the thread. All I have to say is fuck you Team Rocket, Oak is the best character in the game. How did TR even manage to sneak up on him? Oak can tell from halfway around the world when you get on a bike, but he can't see a few clumsy TR members?
Seriously though, I am confused by gabriel. he makes some decent points about hesmyrr looking active but no content and infund's poor logic, but then he supports his points terribly. He attacks everyone who responds to him and then ragequits. Then the people he attacked + brocket vote him. Not sure if brocket is a newbie or is scum jumping on a free bandwagon. I need to read though the thread a few times more to get a clear view of what is going on, but I would like to hear some more posts on why gabriel/brocket/hesmyrr/infund are posting the way they are, not just people jumping on one side or the other. Early in the game - a call for more discussion. This isn't particularly scummy yet. another "trashy" post of course On December 12 2010 03:39 DCLXVI wrote:
Thank you insanious and tree.hugger, I hope to see more people post like that. I don't understand why people are letting Kenpachi off the hook for bad posting. So what if he has a history of being less than stellar for the town. We cannot allow him to spam and distract the town because even if he isn't mafia, this helps the mafia. He is playing in a way that benefits the mafia, so even if he isn't (though I think he is), he is dangerous for the town. I really don't like the defense used by darth and meepak of "oh, well this is just how he normally plays". Townies don't intentionally hurt the town by doing what kenpachi is doing.
I'll hopefully be back in a bit before the vote ends, but I feel safe in putting my vote on Kenpachi. Every vote on him is a vote to clean up the town. Restatement of what tree.hugger/Insanious said; no real contribution of his own. Do you just read the first line of what I post and then ignore the rest? Because that is the only way I can understand what you are talking about. On December 12 2010 15:21 DCLXVI wrote:On December 12 2010 14:44 chaoser wrote:
Guys...for everyone who played Salem...that's just how he plays -_- he was playing the exact same way he did in Salem, if he was mafia there would have been slight differences -_-. No comment. I did my best, I have no regrets Seriously though, I do not regret voting Kenpachi. He was distracting the thread from focusing on possible scum and was posting no relevant information. This does not help the town at all, and we were lucky that he was not a blue. Just because he normally acts scummy does not give him the right to post scummy. It would have been so easy for him to hide behind your terrible defense of him if he was mafia, and we cannot allow that to happen. @Meepak - Why do you want to vote for zeks or gabriel? Do you suspect mafia bandwagoned Kenpachi to save a teammate? Which one of them do you suspect more and why? Please answer these sorts of questions instead of posting accusatory one liners all the time. I was ready to write up a nice long post about the different people who defended kenpachi, but now that he has flipped green I need to rethink my arguments. Sorry for the lack of activity recently, let me sleep and in the morning I'll start pointing some fingers. Post-death justification when one was NOT NEEDED. We all knew Kenpachi was a trash poster in the first place (or at least I did) and that his death would not be missed. No one accused you of anything, so why bother to defend yourself? Because of some inner need to appear innocent at all times, perhaps? NOT NEEDED but asked for, notice I quoted someone who questioned the lynch. I'm sorry for further explaining my rationale behind voting, perhaps next till I will just randomly vote people off a list like you do: On December 14 2010 23:47 d3_crescentia wrote:
##vote: Shockeyy On December 15 2010 05:23 DCLXVI wrote:
With the number of swing votes that happened last time, I think that it is very likely that some scum jumped on the kenpachi bandwagon to save zeks. Not that Gabriel is posting any better, but I think that it is more likely that zeks is scum.
@amber
I don't think we analyzed the night actions enough. We barely covered the possibilities of what happened, and didn't bother to speculate which player was killed by mewtwo. That in itself could prove helpful to finding mewtwo, as well as finding scum connected to the other players who died.
and I loled at one inactive accusing another. And for those of us that have some BRAINS we realized that Zeks fell into the same category of posting as Kenpachi - trash terrible, but nonetheless a waste of a lynch. Also, if you bothered to do any THINKING at all you'd realize that it's in the best interest of Mewtwo to play town-aligned in the early game. Why are you interested in finding Mewtwo unless you were RED and worried about yourself? Maybe if you had some FORESIGHT you could've prepared better for losing mew. Now it will be even harder for us to find mewtwo, especially since people like you try to stop any town discussion like this. Notice the town cannot win with mewtwo alive, so while it might be in M2's best interest to appear townie, the town still needs to kill him. Why are you so scared of us finding mewtwo? Is that your role? On December 15 2010 05:39 DCLXVI wrote:On December 15 2010 05:31 Brocket wrote:
I guess if a detective (alakazam or mew) wants to check me out that could be productive. I'll show up as either a true townie or a gengar pretending to be one. Chansey's honestly should just use their prevention on whoever they want to keep in and if they decide that they themselves are the most valuable then so be it. Give gabe/zeks a scan too if they survive the day vote and future night attacks.
I could be a blue. Or a townie pretending to be a blue. Would it matter too much to the town if I was killed off by mafia? I sort of think of it as taking one for the team so the blues can get a night off.
I could be mafia. I think I'd like to be just a koffing. I wouldn't know who to sleep as a weezing. I talk a lot as you can see but I try to be productive without any hard evidence (then again who does?).
As far as mewtwo is concerned, he's just a wild card that confuses the night attacks and he's more likely to kill townies than mafia the first few nights until our numbers sufficiently dwindle. Sad but true.
tl,dr; Hey guys I'm trying to confuse the town and withhold information but that's ok because I'm town or maybe I'm not but thats fine maybe blues should do what I tell them but maybe not because that could be bad and maybe mewtwo is bad for us now but good later so lets not worry aboutanything. Nice, finally some condescension. Too bad it isn't an actual push for a lynch. If you're not scum you're still being too fucking lazy about this, and if you are - well, that's the perfect level of sneerage to detract from your own posting. Maybe if you had some BRAINS you could've noticed the sarcasm in the post, pointing to the uselessness of brocket's post. I guess things like this are too subtle for players of your caliber. On December 15 2010 15:54 DCLXVI wrote:@LSB While I like your idea of forming up a list of all the inactive/scummy players and then using dt's (or mad H's) on them, I don't think that it is a viable strategy now. A list like that would have to include around 85% of the players. In fact I'll whip one up right now: + Show Spoiler +1. deconduo
2. BrownBear
3. Eiii
4. GGQ
5. LSB
6. DarthThienAn
7. RebirthOfLeGenD (Pikachu, Night 1 Kill)
8. Amber[LighT]
9. dinmsab
10. jcarlsoniv (Pikachu, Night 1 Kill)
11. DCLXVI
12. Ghrur
13. Kenpachi (Pikachu, Day 1 Lynch)
14. Node
15. KtheZ
16. tube
17. chaoser
18. Oceanic
19. Gabriel
20. Insanious
21. Meapak_Ziphh (Pikachu, Night 1 Kill)
22. Shockeyy
23. seRapH
24. Kavdragon
25. tree.hugger (Electrode, Night 1 Kill
26. Infundibulum
27. Pandain
28. Brocket
29. kitaman27
30. d3_crescentia
31. zeks Right now I am trying to get more active, but as far as I see there are about 5 seriously active players. That is why we cannot have the medics self protect like you asked tonight. Night one mafia+M2 took out 3 of the most active players, and I would bet that they will continue that trend tonight. We desperately need every last active player, so unless the medics themselves are high priority targets for the mafia, they should not self protect. I am not trying to open up the medics to be hit, but lets be reasonable. What motive does the mafia have to try to hit random lurking blues over the few active players? Not to mention if they hit mew, they are pretty much screwed. Medics please decide who you want to live and lead our scum hunting tomorrow, Dts follow your gut, same with electrodes. Vets just be tough It would be nice to have some dt's give us information in 2 days (three night checks) so that we know about 1/2 of the alignments with some room for error with millers / GF / fake claims. We could hope for ~2 scum revealed this way, with maybe one fake claimed scum. (all numbers estimated in my head with my assumptions, check yourself) However I think we need to see how desperate our plight is come that time, maybe it will not be necessary then. On the other hand, Double lynching is becoming increasingly necessary. With our multiple bandwagons forming and splitting each vote, it looks like the mafia is having an easy time pulling votes off their team and sending townies to the noose. If we lose to many more townies tonight we won't be able to control the lynch very well in the coming days. We need to take advantage the DL to try and catch back up against the mafia's kills. That is something we seriously need to consider and vote on tomorrow depending on the night kills and the level of town activity come tomorrow morning. I want to see the night kills before I comment on potential scummy players tomorrow. Good night, and make sure you are well prepared for any multiples of trouble. Nice general advice. Doesn't really say much except "Maybe on Day 5 DTs should reveal all they know," not accounting for the fact that the Mafia will target those that the DTs check. Maybe the DTs will check inactive players, but what's to stop the mafia from counterclaiming with their own fake DT and sowing more chaos? There needs to be a better plan than just "in 3 days let's reveal." Of course, I realize that you yourself don't have much confidence in this plan of yours, seeing as how it's just plain terrible for town. Or you might just be TR putting thoughts in our mind. So step up and defend yourself, or I'll be putting my vote on you first thing come Day. Yeah I guess I don't say much besides criticizing LSB's plan and commenting on the double lynch benefits and outline a decent plan for the medics to follow (which they didn't, and now we lost more active townies ). I guess I should post more like you: On December 16 2010 10:39 d3_crescentia wrote:On December 16 2010 10:35 LSB wrote:
If I die, check out Shocky, D3, and Brocket I'm pretty sure I'm not TR. The other two might be worth a look though. And you call my posts trashy. All of my posts at least have a reason behind them, as I, unlike you, don't feel the need to spam to seem active and townie. So in an effort to be a better townie should I go back and summarize your posts however I like, call you an idiot, and then try to start a bandwagon on you? Because that seems like one of the scummiest plans I can think of, but you manage to pull it off and people think you are one of the towniest of us all. Congratulations on returning fire; don't you feel GREAT about yourself now that you've contributed a post that amounts to a "NO U"? I'm sorry, "medics protect who you think you should" isn't telling them anything they don't know already. Post some real content for fuck's sake, because criticism and disagreement means jack shit unless you provide alternatives. If you haven't noticed, I'm trying to get town back on the right track, whereas all you do is whine about how I've mischaracterized you instead of contributing. Go analyze some other people, unless you're too scared to out your scum buddies. You don't seem to understand that I am calling you out for doing a terrible analysis. You are not helping the town by doing so. Once again you take half of what I say and turn it to fit your fancy. I asked for the medics to protect the town leaders over themselves, READ MY POSTS. Also, what happened to the rest of your "analysis"? I'm just right so you ignore it and flame me? Why don't you post some REAL content instead of calling for everyone else to do it instead? I did read your posts. I found them wanting. If I'm doing a terrible analysis then do a better one. Make it on me. Make it on someone else. I don't really care; just make it so that you're doing it on someone and that town can benefit from the discussion. I am trying my best to offer something that resembles analysis, but if half the town is sitting around scratching their heads and saying "durr should we lynch shockeyy now" when we are down 4 blues then we are going to lose, period. That's the problem I have with you. You offer no viable alternatives. You offer vague plans. You offer mild criticism but don't push for anything concrete. If you think my posts are terrible and deliberately designed to mislead town then for fuck's sake get the entire town to vote me and be done with it. I find you "analysis" lacking. You also add nothing to the discussion, just attack random people with poor logic. I will take you up on your offer however. It seems as if kevdragon has claimed you though, so I will analyze Insanious instead. While I am composing it I would like to see you add something to the town too, and remember, quote don't summarize Hmmm so you point out that someone is doing analysis and that it is lacking, when you have yet to analyze anyone at all... Then you randomly FoS me... where that comes from I don't know, although you have already FoS'ed at least 5 people (maybe more haven't been counting) with no analysis... suprised some actually came this time. On December 16 2010 15:02 DCLXVI wrote:
FUCK I forgot to analyze his voting
I'll be back Will go over your "analysis" in my next post, just wanted to get this out of the way... but hey you called me scum for EBWOP then you do it, and yet you don't even add any more information, you simply just spam... On December 16 2010 15:07 DCLXVI wrote:
Ok vote 1 he OMGUS voted tube, then switched to kenpachi as per his arguments.
day 2 he puts a placeholder vote on himself, then decides to jump on the zeks bandwagon for the hell of it. Excuses for inactivity there too.
Oh hey look EBWOP that could have been done 1 post ago... Although have to say, the way you write this doesn't even look line an analysis, he it doesn't even seem like you found anything on me based on my voting and just had to post something... On December 16 2010 15:10 DCLXVI wrote:
Alright now to post that Im off to sleep and more importantly to complete the quad post, because everyone knows MORE POSTS = MORE TOWNIE
Ill read over the KD analysis on d3 tomorrow, to tired now. I look forward to see your contribution d3. 3 spam posts in a row, saying you have to go to bed, which really doesn't matter to the town. So you do an analysis then spam the thread, good job? - - - - - - - - Overall... this is what I see: 1) Inactive poster, that posted every 36 hours according to the post dates on this posts previous inactive poster, I have had quite a lot to say in the past 2 days or so. Then again I still managed to post a reasonable amount compared to the rest of the players. I'm not saying I was active very much then, but you seem to ignore everything that I did post with content.2) Poster that when ever he posted something FoS'd someone random, then disapeared Is this english?3) Contributed nothing to the thread, just did token posts to seem like he was participating aside from my criticism of some people's ideas and my recent analysis on you4) Continuously uses the "I don't read the thread much" card, even though he seems to know what's going on That is a Lie, I never posted anything remotely like that5) Doesn't even defend himself, but in the ends of posts likes to defend other people (mainly Gabe) yeah i never defend myself... did you even read my posts? and where do you get the idea that I am mainly defending Gabe?6) Got FoS'd by two players who died in the last night period To me that looks like an obvious mafia frame, to you i guess it means differently7) I show that he got FoS'd by two players who TR killed, and then I get FoS'd by him ??? did you read my analysis on you before posting this? Or do you just like throwing around acronyms?Hmmm... doesn't seem like a productive member of the town... seems more like scum to me. Nice conclusion. try reading my posts next time.
|
And more responses (post was too long)
On December 17 2010 02:14 Insanious wrote:My review of DCLXVI’s analysis on me, and my response. + Show Spoiler + On December 16 2010 15:01 DCLXVI wrote: Show nested quote +On December 10 2010 07:19 Insanious wrote: Professor Oak was way better than Rowen, or the other Professors throughout the different lands, this is the saddest start to a mafia ever. Useless, but w/e. First post of the day, commenting on the theme. At least he included all of my posts, but hey. Most of the people made a comment on the theme, most of them are dead, and all of them were town. On December 16 2010 15:01 DCLXVI wrote:Show nested quote +On December 10 2010 08:04 Insanious wrote:On December 10 2010 07:56 LSB wrote:On December 10 2010 07:46 Amber[LighT] wrote:On December 10 2010 07:42 Oceanic wrote:
Doesn't it say in 1 of the guides posted that lynching an inactive day 1 is not something you should do? Lynching an inactive typically results in lynching an apathetic townie. Everyone should be posting frequently to discuss who should die for day 1. There are no PM's so everything should be out in the open. We should really worry less about how the blues should play. Thinks like role checks won't be overly reliable, and saving people cannot be discussed in the thread. It probably would be a good idea for the electrodes to think about where to place voltorbs and pick up on good scum tells. Having a general system for how blues play is pretty important. We need to establish a good town environment where the most pro-town players won't find themselves dead. We need to establish a place where everyone is active. Sure, we could leave everything to RNG, but we could do so much more with the blues. I have to agree with this, having a general idea of how the town runs will help keep down the number of accidental lynchings. This is more or less pulled from one of the guides that DcH posted, but when you have a town that uses larger posts, filled with a lot of information, it makes it a lot easier to pick out those that want to give no new information and are simply regurgitating stuff that has already been said in the thread.If we start with a town that runs this way, it should carry through to the end of the game. The best way to keep a town that functions correctly functioning this way would be to keep the people that are running in a more administrative fashion (i guess i could say that) where they are trying to keep some semblance of order alive. I mean a town that runs all willy-nilly chaotic is a town that breeds scum, where a town that runs in a more ordered fashion has a higher chance of weeding out those that are trying to bring disorder to an already disorderly situation. On December 10 2010 08:01 Kenpachi wrote:
how many people can Mafia target per night? It says that the mafia get 3kp, added to this mewtwo (although not part of the mafia, is still playing against the town) has 1kp. This means there can be 3 mafia targets, and 1 third party target a night. So the first bit is about how he agrees with LSB about the need for a plan and organization. This is useless but really long and looks nice. The second part answers a dumb question, I have no problem with that. People seem to look at that as a useless post, but I don’t. Remember that there are over 10 new Mafia players (as in, first time mafia players) in this game. As such, most people don’t know how to play or post. I was trying to help people with that. Telling them to post longer to help the town, put information in it. People who have played multiple games would know how to post, people who have never played will pick it up eventually, but why not help the town day 1? On December 16 2010 15:01 DCLXVI wrote:Show nested quote +On December 10 2010 08:20 Insanious wrote:On December 10 2010 08:11 Eiii wrote:There always seem to be posts about how we all need to establish a 'pro-town environment', which is obvious of course  I (and I'm sure lots of other newer players) have no clue what that *means* though, especially when we can't PM each other. (That might turn out to be more of a blessing than a curse though.) So... can someone enlighten me? I'm newer at this as well, but have been reading a few mafia games, but i think some of the things people want in a pro-town environment are: - Longer, well thought out posts. This way ideas don't get lost. If you post a million tiny posts people can get bored, or will skip over having to read like 5 pages when everything could have just been put into a single longer post and people will have less to read. This way the town can see people who are posting small posts that try to bury information. - Long, well thought out accusations of scum. If you have posts that have like 8 quotes in them, people can better see a pattern in someones behavior. This can also help stop bandwagoning onto an innocent, as with a long post someone has a lot of information to refute, and you can also then point out scum who are using selective posts. This way it is easier to spot people who are trying to mislead the town. - Less peer-pressure, in a more pro-town environment there is less calling out of people, this can result in less blues being forced to reveal, which not only makes the town more vulnerable but also forces a chancey (in this case) to protect the blue for fear that they die. As well, this can reduce the amount of greens that need to reveal, that make them vulnerable due to them no longer being able to be lynch bait. I think those are more or less the major points of a more pro-town environment rather than an anti-town environment, if I missed anything just add to the list. Long posts are better than short ones, attack scum, but not townies. I’ll make a note here that the lurker Deconduo rears his head and posts an “I agree” post right after. Jcarlsoniv posts after pointing out how useless Insanious’s first few posts were, long and fluffy. You do realize that right after that I respond to jcarl right after this, and then he agrees with me that my posts were warrented, but you don’t even put that in the next posts... you keep attacking me for a post that was deemed ok by my original accuser. Eiii asked questions, so I answered them. This is legitimate, if 1 person has a question, then in a game of 30 people, with 10 who have never played a mafia game, then most likely there is at least 1 more lurker who does not want to ask the question but is still confused. Posting information for all to see is always good for the town, especially when it information that people ask for, and its information that is good for the town to know... and when its answered correctly. I would also like to note, that as of up to this point in the game, I have contributed infinity more times than you simply because you have yet to post in the thread yet... heck according to you, you had yet to even start reading yet... On December 16 2010 15:01 DCLXVI wrote:Show nested quote +On December 10 2010 09:29 Insanious wrote:On December 10 2010 08:53 jcarlsoniv wrote:On December 10 2010 08:04 Insanious wrote:On December 10 2010 07:56 LSB wrote:On December 10 2010 07:46 Amber[LighT] wrote:On December 10 2010 07:42 Oceanic wrote:
Doesn't it say in 1 of the guides posted that lynching an inactive day 1 is not something you should do? Lynching an inactive typically results in lynching an apathetic townie. Everyone should be posting frequently to discuss who should die for day 1. There are no PM's so everything should be out in the open. We should really worry less about how the blues should play. Thinks like role checks won't be overly reliable, and saving people cannot be discussed in the thread. It probably would be a good idea for the electrodes to think about where to place voltorbs and pick up on good scum tells. Having a general system for how blues play is pretty important. We need to establish a good town environment where the most pro-town players won't find themselves dead. We need to establish a place where everyone is active. Sure, we could leave everything to RNG, but we could do so much more with the blues. I have to agree with this, having a general idea of how the town runs will help keep down the number of accidental lynchings. This is more or less pulled from one of the guides that DcH posted, but when you have a town that uses larger posts, filled with a lot of information, it makes it a lot easier to pick out those that want to give no new information and are simply regurgitating stuff that has already been said in the thread.If we start with a town that runs this way, it should carry through to the end of the game. The best way to keep a town that functions correctly functioning this way would be to keep the people that are running in a more administrative fashion (i guess i could say that) where they are trying to keep some semblance of order alive. I mean a town that runs all willy-nilly chaotic is a town that breeds scum, where a town that runs in a more ordered fashion has a higher chance of weeding out those that are trying to bring disorder to an already disorderly situation. On December 10 2010 08:01 Kenpachi wrote:
how many people can Mafia target per night? It says that the mafia get 3kp, added to this mewtwo (although not part of the mafia, is still playing against the town) has 1kp. This means there can be 3 mafia targets, and 1 third party target a night. You mean like this post is doing? From your two posts, I've noticed you haven't really added too much at all. Your first post was almost exclusively regurgitating previous posts. Your second one you seemed to be trying to add more, saying you've read guides, and it appears that you are trying hard to look like the poster child of "how to be a townie". Everyone pretty much knows the environment that is conducive to town progress. It is very apparent when scum tries to disrupt things if they are going smoothly. We just have to catch them as they are doing it before things spiral out of control. Townies don't need to try to look like townies, because they already are. Two newer mafia players asked two questions, I was simply answering them. Its not like I was just throwing that info out there as if it was anything new. Eiii asked what a pro-town environment entitled, while Kenpachi asked how many attacks the mafia can make in a night. Both of which they could of found by reading what DrH posted, but I thought it would be nice to answer both questions... I guess if you would rather I could of simply just not answered their questions and left them guessing. Insanious admits that the only content to his posts is answering a few newbie questions, ignores the fact that the rest of his post is useless. Don’t put words in my mouth, I say nothing of the sort. I think pot of my posts are filled with good information for newer players, the people who they were geared towards. These posts are there to help people who’ve never played before start playing better. I never said once that my posts have little to no content, where did you even get that idea from what I said? You attacked d3 for paraphrasing your ideas... you even called him scum. Hypocrate? On December 16 2010 15:01 DCLXVI wrote:Show nested quote +On December 10 2010 13:56 Insanious wrote:
Completely random I know... but can someone tell me how to get to the voting thread. On the front page it says "vote in a separate thread found here" but there's no link on here, or after it. I think I missed where it was listed and would be nice to be able to see the votes... I have a feeling I'm missing something very obvious. Time for questions! Because asking questions is something scum like to do and it adds to your post count making you seem active. PM the host next time please. So when there were 2 other posts behind mine that said that they wanted to know the answer to this question as well, and that it helped them, and they thanked me in the thread... I should of just PM’ed DcH and had them not know how to vote and get mod killed? Read the posts around mine, I helped the new players in the town figure out where the voting thread was, there were thank you posts... how about when you analyze someone you actually take into account what there actions have done. Aka. You are attacking me for informing the town on how to vote against mafia. This post makes you seem like you don’t want me to help inform the town how to vote, unless you are mafia, why don’t you want the town to know how to vote? Why do you want town to be mod killed? Please answer me as to why you think it is a good idea to let 3 town be mod killed because they don’t know how to vote. On December 16 2010 15:01 DCLXVI wrote:Show nested quote +On December 10 2010 14:10 Insanious wrote:
You can change votes right, like ##unvote XXXX; Vote XXXX or no?
Also to actually contribute to the thread somewhat, I really don't like either of the bandwagons we have going. Infun hasn't really done anything, especially not to garner the wrath of 10% of the people playing this game. On the other hand Gab came off a little rough and confrontational, but I really don't think he came off that scummy... Another question… and then … he says he hasn’t posted much content so to make up for it he presents us with this gem. “umm this guy seems scummy but no one is doing much, maybe this guy to.” Where is the content? What stance do you take on these people and WHY? Again, having the information in the thread for those to read is better then getting it in a PM. I’ve read mafia games where the mafia PM the GM for information so that they know things that the town doesn’t, and then exploits this information. Having it posted in the thread, where it wasn’t before, only helps the town not hinders it. Also, I was only referring to my last post, not all my posts. Again, stop putting words in my mouth. I got attacked for posting something with no thread content before, so I decided to amalgamate my posts into one. Something you did not do at the end of your analysis and now have 3 posts in a row... heck you even ask a question in this thread and have no content on the end, why are you attacking me for something you do? Also I was asking why people were voting Infun (which if you read the posts around mine, you would know half the town was asking why people were voting Infun who did nothing all game). And then I just said I didn’t think Gabe looked scummy. This is better than what you have done with your FoS’s by the way. If you actually compare this post to any of your posts with an FoS, this post has more content. You cannot call me out for lack of content. At least my post has more meat to it than “I FoS Meepak” like all of your posts for the first 6 days of this thread... ya I did an analysis after, and ya you have 0 analysis at least this has something. Sad when you attack me for doing more than you did. On December 16 2010 15:01 DCLXVI wrote:Show nested quote +On December 10 2010 15:22 Insanious wrote:
So now we have 4 people voting for Gabriel with little to no explanation... actually I think like only 1 person explained why they were voting for Gab and the other three didn't even say they were voting for him or why... bandwagon on an active, outspoken player? Me no likey... And your explanation for you vote was what exactly? Oh that’s right, you didn’t. But that is not important, because you learned how to point fingers! I didn’t point fingers at all, I was asking for an analysis of Gab rather than a bandwagon. I was also scared of an irreversible bandwagon day 1. As well, I really didn’t think I had to post why I voted tube, other people did analysis and I jumped on him... kind of like you with Kenpachi, oh right you jumped on my analysis for that, at least I did some analysis for the town... you have done none up until this one. Again, funny how you call me out for no analysis, when even asking “hey guys where’s your analysis” is more reason to jump on someone then you every posted. On December 16 2010 15:01 DCLXVI wrote:Show nested quote +On December 10 2010 15:22 Insanious wrote:
So now we have 4 people voting for Gabriel with little to no explanation... actually I think like only 1 person explained why they were voting for Gab and the other three didn't even say they were voting for him or why... bandwagon on an active, outspoken player? Me no likey... Another useless post You quoted the same post, but again the other post was an EBWOP since we cannot edit. So you are attacking me for following the rules of the thread... which you then follow right after this analysis. So why are you attacking me for this at all? Its an EBWOP. This makes no sence. On December 16 2010 15:01 DCLXVI wrote:Show nested quote +On December 11 2010 05:26 Insanious wrote:
Gab cant really explain him self :/, there isnt enough info in the game to do so... and I mean from the looks of it, it looks like Gab was just trying to push peoples buttons to see their reaction to his posts about who he thought was scum, that go way overboard and suddenly 1/6th of the people in this game are voting that he is scum...
People are like "its only 6 out of 31" but really, once a bandwagon gets running its hard to stop unless you slow it down early... I don't think any more votes on Gab right now will help the town, all it will do is seal Gab's fate... Now this post is interesting. This is a step up from pointing fingers at people voting gabe, now he says that it is hurtful for the town to vote for scummy people. “It wasn’t really gabe’s fault he acted scummy, he was just trying to get a reaction.” Yeah right, I’ve seen that defense used too many times on scum to let it get by this game. Um, you do realize in a post you make you simply say “I don’t think Gab is scum” why are you even attacking me for this either? The post is to warn people not to bandwagon on Gabriel too early so that it cannot be reversed. Once you get 10+ people on someone, they are going to die. You need to get 2 – 3 people that you vote for, so that mafia cannot just bandwagon onto a single person and hide. This is sound advice, and you attack me for it. Again, attacking me for helping the town... On December 16 2010 15:01 DCLXVI wrote:Show nested quote +On December 11 2010 13:42 Insanious wrote:
tube your acting simply just very confrontational right now... what chaoser was trying to say is that you have to start the game somewhere. Promoting lynching inactives is a place to start. You never want to end with simply lynching inactives, but the discussion between whether we lynch or do not lynch inactives can actually lead to something that can be analyzed.
Look at every mafia game here, or on any other site and it always starts with the "do we lynch inactives or not", why? Because it gets people talking, and unless people talk then we will never ever find scum.
Activity is counter productive to the mafia, as that means they have to participate more, and that gives them more chances to slip up.
LSB started on the convo, but now we have found a few people acting scummy, and as such we are no longer talking about lynching inactives, but weather to lynch people who've actually said something.
Do we lynch Kenpachi for his posting habbits, Gab for his out burst, Infun for his previous actions, LSB for trying to be the head of the town, or you for just angrily, randomly, accusing people of being scum.
This is where the game should be focused, but we needed a start... and lynching inactives is a start. This I can’t argue with, besides the repeat of “activity is good”. I agree that starting with the lynching inactives always leads to scum slips or at least more town activity. Oh hey look my justification for voting tube, that you ignored in your “voting analysis”. Dude this is why I voted tube at the start, I thought he looked like scum. Better than what you did “I agree *votes kenpachi*” at least I added something to the thread. Nice of you to attack me in a separate post, and then forgetting about your own analysis... looks like your analysis was very thorough. On December 16 2010 15:01 DCLXVI wrote:Show nested quote +On December 11 2010 17:14 Insanious wrote:Hell anyone else notice a trend... 1) Gabe accuses Kenpachi 2) Kenpachi tries to defend himself poorly 3) Kenpachi votes for Gabe 4) Jcarl jumps in and defends Ken, while trying to put a case against Gabe 5) People bandwagon Gabe 6) People start to look else where for scum 7) Kenpachi jumps in and makes us look back at Gabe 8) Gabe tries to ignore Ken, and tries to act like the rest of us (Eii, Chaos, tube, etc...) 9) Jcarl comes back and tries to get us to focus back on Gabe Kenpachi and Jcarl, why you two working so closely together to try and get us to hang Gabe when a large part of the town is like "... Gabe really doesn't look that scummy..." On December 11 2010 16:58 Eiii wrote:
...gabes posts are so blatantly bad I'm actually starting to have a hard time believing they could possibly be authored by scum. o_O On December 11 2010 08:30 KtheZ wrote:
I'm not sure if we should really take Gabriel's actions that greatly into consideration. Considering that he is a relatively veteran player, I don't think the bandwagon against him is of great value. If he was mafia, isnt it common sense for them to talk about a game plan and think things out before posting, rather than actively arguing with people?
On December 11 2010 04:28 LSB wrote:
The problem is now, why the bandwagon the bandwagon against Gabriel took place.
(i'll look into it later, right now I'm hard pressed for time) On December 11 2010 04:15 Hesmyrr wrote:
There is one possible reason why I am willing to give Gabriel null-read for now, but I am going to wait for him to come and explain himself first to see if his argument agrees with mine. On December 11 2010 03:15 seRapH wrote:
Oh come on guys, 5 people voting for Gabriel out of nowhere? He hasn't really been very scummy imo. I'm keeping an eye on this bandwagon for scum, it's very likely that someone amongst these 5 are poison-type pokemon, maybe even multiple of them.
- - - - - - - - - - - - On December 11 2010 02:44 jcarlsoniv wrote:
I agree with you, which is why I'm not convinced he's scum. He is making wild accusations though that is disrupting everything, and even if he's town, removing that isn't necessarily a bad thing. However, if we can find scum, I definitely want that, obviously. I just want Gabriel to have an eye kept on him. ^^^ huh? Isn't that contradictory to the two huge posts you made against Gabe? "I don't think he's scum... but let's vote him and then see what happens!" The whole kenpachi +jcarlsoniv thing didn’t work out, but it was a nice try I guess Infinity more analysis than you have ever done... oh and you used this as your justification for voting for Kenpachi, therefore you must of thought it was good. On December 16 2010 15:01 DCLXVI wrote:Show nested quote +On December 12 2010 03:19 Insanious wrote:On December 12 2010 02:30 Kenpachi wrote:
asdf. even when i post, i get pointed scum Its not THAT you post, its WHAT you post... the problem is that all of your posts are spam and none of them offer anything. I actually also prepared a case against you, but tree.hugger got there before me so I didn't think I should post everything you wrote again, but really: + Show Spoiler +On December 10 2010 06:55 Kenpachi wrote:
yes! got my pm and the games beginning~ Very excited over his role, that's not that unusual... On December 10 2010 07:11 Kenpachi wrote:
oh shit.. i cant really imagine Professor Oak dead D: Until you see that he posts against 16 minutes later just to spam that he's in the game, wouldn't the post before hand of been enough? All this does is clutter up the thread with no additional content. Post could not have happened. On December 10 2010 07:47 Kenpachi wrote:
Pikachu - Townie
Raichu - Miller
Chansey - Medic
Cloyster - Veteran
Alakazam - Detective
Electrode - Mad Hatter
Mew - Special Detective
Gengar - God Father
Koffing - Mafia Grunt
Weezing - Mafia Shrink
Mewtwo - 3rd Party Vigilante
notice how our only way of killing at night is Mad Hatter and 3rd party.. 3rd party is technically against us and will probably kill town over mafia due to immunity and their goal is to be last alive. Then he continues with the spam. Here he posts a list of the pokemon roles to normal mafia roles. This is something that looks helpful, but isn't helpful at all. Everyone would of red the starting post to see what the roles do, equating them with other words isn't helpful in the least, but it does SEEM helpful. As well, he also points out that the reds have little to fear from the town besides lynching as there are no vig killers. Why does he point that out? Re-leaved? On December 10 2010 07:50 Kenpachi wrote:
yea claiming is a no no. and i hate lynching inactives. doesnt work at all. Again, more spam... seems like he is posting every 10 minutes or less, just to rack up posts. He says it doesn't work, but doesn't explain why. He is simply shooting down an idea without adding to the conversation. This kills information flow, something a red would like to do. If he was green/blue, he could of posted more to his opinion,why he thought that. Something with more meat "Claiming is a no no because there are so many mafia that any lies will take forever for the DT to check out, as well it will make our blues more susceptible as then the mafia will know who exactly to hit every-night." Even that is less suspicious than what Ken posted. On December 10 2010 08:01 Kenpachi wrote:
how many people can Mafia target per night? His last post previous showed that he read the starting post, as he pulled the names and roles of the different jobs from the starting post, but then why does he feign ignorance? If you read what all the roles did, do you expect me to believe that he didn't scroll down a few lines to see how many KP the mafia got? If he would of just read the OP, instead of posting this it would of been less suspicious. But this seems like another thing scum do, play the "I'm new card" this is a subtle one, that just says "look at me asking this noob question, i must not know much" it is a defense as people are less likely to lynch a new player than an experienced one. On December 10 2010 08:12 Kenpachi wrote:Show nested quote +On December 10 2010 08:11 Eiii wrote:There always seem to be posts about how we all need to establish a 'pro-town environment', which is obvious of course I (and I'm sure lots of other newer players) have no clue what that *means* though, especially when we can't PM each other. (That might turn out to be more of a blessing than a curse though.) So... can someone enlighten me? basically, where we can point out scum easily without confusing them as town.. i think Here he is answering a question, without actually answering the question. He posts something that looks like an answer but offers no real insight at all. He doesn't explain what a pro-town environment is, he just simply states what it should look like and then moves on. It is just clutter, that can also just act as a way to confuse a newer player. Not to mention, Eiii might of been less likely to ask the question against later even though it wasn't really responded to simply to avoid looking foolish after kenpachi, a more experienced player, "answered" it. If he was town, he should of just ignored this, or went to one of the links DocH posted and just copie-pasted the analysis of a pro-town environment, both would of done more good. On December 10 2010 08:14 Kenpachi wrote:Show nested quote +On December 10 2010 08:13 KtheZ wrote:
Do we have a limited amount of double lynches? I think its 2. Including this to include all his posts, answering a question where he simply copies from the OP... again. (note this is not scummy behaviour, but i wanted to include all posts) On December 10 2010 11:30 Kenpachi wrote:Show nested quote +On December 10 2010 11:20 Gabriel wrote:
Interesting: my half good "im new" shot is now voting for me. Kenpachi care to explain
A) your vote
B) your deep posts?
what? Pure spam... adds nothing to the conversation. Would have been better to actually refute the claims instead of spam here. He could of looked like a green/blue, but instead he continues to post like a red, more spam and more dismissal of arguments without any sound logic. On December 10 2010 11:34 Kenpachi wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On December 10 2010 11:20 Gabriel wrote:Interesting: my half good "im new" shot is now voting for me. Kenpachi care to explain A) your vote B) your deep posts? + Show Spoiler +On December 10 2010 07:11 Kenpachi wrote:
oh shit.. i cant really imagine Professor Oak dead D: On December 10 2010 07:47 Kenpachi wrote:
Pikachu - Townie
Raichu - Miller
Chansey - Medic
Cloyster - Veteran
Alakazam - Detective
Electrode - Mad Hatter
Mew - Special Detective
Gengar - God Father
Koffing - Mafia Grunt
Weezing - Mafia Shrink
Mewtwo - 3rd Party Vigilante
notice how our only way of killing at night is Mad Hatter and 3rd party.. 3rd party is technically against us and will probably kill town over mafia due to immunity and their goal is to be last alive. On December 10 2010 07:50 Kenpachi wrote:
yea claiming is a no no. and i hate lynching inactives. doesnt work at all. On December 10 2010 08:01 Kenpachi wrote:
how many people can Mafia target per night? On December 10 2010 08:12 Kenpachi wrote:Show nested quote +On December 10 2010 08:11 Eiii wrote:There always seem to be posts about how we all need to establish a 'pro-town environment', which is obvious of course I (and I'm sure lots of other newer players) have no clue what that *means* though, especially when we can't PM each other. (That might turn out to be more of a blessing than a curse though.) So... can someone enlighten me? basically, where we can point out scum easily without confusing them as town.. i think On December 10 2010 08:14 Kenpachi wrote:Show nested quote +On December 10 2010 08:13 KtheZ wrote:
Do we have a limited amount of double lynches? I think its 2. what would posting history 4 hours into the game show you? Posts two seconds later, more spam, and again... doesn't add anything. Doesn't refute the claim against him, does not try to argue against Gab at all, he simply just tries to dismiss any claim against him without even a logical argument. On December 10 2010 11:44 Kenpachi wrote:Show nested quote +On December 10 2010 11:40 Gabriel wrote:On December 10 2010 11:34 Kenpachi wrote:On December 10 2010 11:20 Gabriel wrote:Interesting: my half good "im new" shot is now voting for me. Kenpachi care to explain A) your vote B) your deep posts? + Show Spoiler +On December 10 2010 07:11 Kenpachi wrote:
oh shit.. i cant really imagine Professor Oak dead D: On December 10 2010 07:47 Kenpachi wrote:
Pikachu - Townie
Raichu - Miller
Chansey - Medic
Cloyster - Veteran
Alakazam - Detective
Electrode - Mad Hatter
Mew - Special Detective
Gengar - God Father
Koffing - Mafia Grunt
Weezing - Mafia Shrink
Mewtwo - 3rd Party Vigilante
notice how our only way of killing at night is Mad Hatter and 3rd party.. 3rd party is technically against us and will probably kill town over mafia due to immunity and their goal is to be last alive. On December 10 2010 07:50 Kenpachi wrote:
yea claiming is a no no. and i hate lynching inactives. doesnt work at all. On December 10 2010 08:01 Kenpachi wrote:
how many people can Mafia target per night? On December 10 2010 08:12 Kenpachi wrote:Show nested quote +On December 10 2010 08:11 Eiii wrote:There always seem to be posts about how we all need to establish a 'pro-town environment', which is obvious of course I (and I'm sure lots of other newer players) have no clue what that *means* though, especially when we can't PM each other. (That might turn out to be more of a blessing than a curse though.) So... can someone enlighten me? basically, where we can point out scum easily without confusing them as town.. i think On December 10 2010 08:14 Kenpachi wrote:Show nested quote +On December 10 2010 08:13 KtheZ wrote:
Do we have a limited amount of double lynches? I think its 2. what would posting history 4 hours into the game show you? A) You dont want to be active posting B) You want to "look" active C) You read the rules but you actually dont know mafia KP? That was rare. D) You dont want to lynch inactives because that doesnt work. E) You want enlightment. F) You vote for me out of literally nowhere. I mean: i post to flip Infundibulum and you come right after me. Care to explain at least? A) 4 hours does not judge that. what if i went on TL tomorrow for the first time in the past 3 days? B) Anyone who posts would want to look active.. Why would they post if they want to look inactive? C) Why are you assuming i read the rules? how do you know i didnt just assume the KP? D) It doesnt. shh E) ?? its enlightenment F) I dont agree with you voting for Infundibulum. Here, he doesn't even refute the arguments brought against him. A) Says 4 hours isn't enough time to judge activity, and then he says something that makes no sence B) He says posting = activity, but it doesn't... Kenpachi posts empty posts that make him look active without contributing... posting without content does not make you an active member of the comunity. C) He says he didn't read the rules here... even though he posted the roles as his 3rd post in the game. So he read the rules but didn't read the rules? D) Says lynching inactives doesn't work, but not why... E) K this one doesn't make sense... F) Ken voted Gab as soon as Gab voted Infini, even though Gab said he voted Infini for past actions... On December 10 2010 12:12 Kenpachi wrote:Show nested quote +On December 10 2010 11:57 Gabriel wrote:On December 10 2010 11:44 Kenpachi wrote:On December 10 2010 11:40 Gabriel wrote:On December 10 2010 11:34 Kenpachi wrote:On December 10 2010 11:20 Gabriel wrote:Interesting: my half good "im new" shot is now voting for me. Kenpachi care to explain A) your vote B) your deep posts? + Show Spoiler +On December 10 2010 07:11 Kenpachi wrote:
oh shit.. i cant really imagine Professor Oak dead D: On December 10 2010 07:47 Kenpachi wrote:
Pikachu - Townie
Raichu - Miller
Chansey - Medic
Cloyster - Veteran
Alakazam - Detective
Electrode - Mad Hatter
Mew - Special Detective
Gengar - God Father
Koffing - Mafia Grunt
Weezing - Mafia Shrink
Mewtwo - 3rd Party Vigilante
notice how our only way of killing at night is Mad Hatter and 3rd party.. 3rd party is technically against us and will probably kill town over mafia due to immunity and their goal is to be last alive. On December 10 2010 07:50 Kenpachi wrote:
yea claiming is a no no. and i hate lynching inactives. doesnt work at all. On December 10 2010 08:01 Kenpachi wrote:
how many people can Mafia target per night? On December 10 2010 08:12 Kenpachi wrote:Show nested quote +On December 10 2010 08:11 Eiii wrote:There always seem to be posts about how we all need to establish a 'pro-town environment', which is obvious of course I (and I'm sure lots of other newer players) have no clue what that *means* though, especially when we can't PM each other. (That might turn out to be more of a blessing than a curse though.) So... can someone enlighten me? basically, where we can point out scum easily without confusing them as town.. i think On December 10 2010 08:14 Kenpachi wrote:Show nested quote +On December 10 2010 08:13 KtheZ wrote:
Do we have a limited amount of double lynches? I think its 2. what would posting history 4 hours into the game show you? A) You dont want to be active posting B) You want to "look" active C) You read the rules but you actually dont know mafia KP? That was rare. D) You dont want to lynch inactives because that doesnt work. E) You want enlightment. F) You vote for me out of literally nowhere. I mean: i post to flip Infundibulum and you come right after me. Care to explain at least? A) 4 hours does not judge that. what if i went on TL tomorrow for the first time in the past 3 days? B) Anyone who posts would want to look active.. Why would they post if they want to look inactive? C) Why are you assuming i read the rules? how do you know i didnt just assume the KP? D) It doesnt. shh E) ?? its enlightenment F) I dont agree with you voting for Infundibulum. A) Well you just wrote 7 one liners and have yet to post something relevant. B) But you are NOT. It is not about how you look. Come on that is not an argument, so you post one liners to look active? what is that? Sparta? C) Well you actually read the rules because you posted the pokemon/classicmafia relation. I wonder why you just couldnt look for the mafia KP, and insisted to look clueless asking for it. D) It doesnt? well you were pretty much inactive and so was Infundibulum. Maybe it does. E) You think too much. You have again 2 posts where you "think" about this "think" about that, when it is clear that those post refer to info available in the opening rules. This heavily smells like "im not too sure, i dont know" plot. F) So you agree that you are protecting infundibulum by voting me: More reason to flip him!. A) There isnt much to post in the beginning, due to low information and lack of suspicion. B) I am not what? I posted in the beginning to "look" active because i have a history of lurking. C) You are still assuming i read the rules. Did i read or skim it? Did i read it but pass the KP? I posted that in the thread for people who also didnt know to possibly take a burden off many people. D)Idk man. you found a bunch of posts in the beginning and call me inactive? Refer to B). Why am i posting to "look" active? E) "I think its 2." hey i only played 1 game with Double Lynch before. F) your logic is flawed. i can vote for anyone i want to and im defending Infundibulum by not voting for him. Why do you think youre gonna be the main bandwagon from 1 vote? A) Says there isn't much to post in the begining, but then why post at all? Ken has something like 1/4 of the posts in the thread up to this point... why spam if there is nothing to spam about? B) So he has a history of lurking, so he just suddenly decides to change his game? From lurker to spammer? C) So now he skimmed the rules, but posted part of the rules in this thread... so apparently when he skims he picks up 100% of some rules but 0% of others? D) K Gab makes stupid argument here E) Again, refering to posting part of the rules, but then claiming to not have read the OP F) Does not refute the "defending infun by voting for Gab" thing that Gab brings up... but he does say that Gab is flawed in believing he will become the main bandwagon... and then becomes the main bandwagon Basically all my arguments are in that spoiler, would just be huge since I quoted every single post that Kenpachi made. Just the major points that I think Kenpachi is scummy: 1) A gigantic amount of posts that add nothing to the game. 11 posts in under 5 hours all of which add nothing to the game. His spam was especially apparent at the start of the game. 2) He posts about the rules found in the OP, and then repeatedly claims he never read the OP. This just doesn't make sense, how can you quote the OP without reading it... this just seems very scummy to me. 3) Answering questions without answering the questions. He posts as if he is answering a question, but then offers no information. This makes it seem like he is helping players, but he is simply confusing them more. 4) No arguments when called out. Gab calls Kenpachi out, Kenpachi posts 2 posts that say nothing and then disappears for a day... 5) While disappeared, the person that called him out is suddenly the bandwagon of the day (started by Kenpachi), and no one is questioning Kenpachi anymore. (even though others were investigating Kenpachi as well when Gab was.) This just seems very scummy... comes on, spams a lot, posts contradictory statements, gets called out, gets the guy that calls him out bandwaggoned, then disappears. So he does a good analysis on kenpachi. Unfortunately, according to the town leaders, kenpachi acts like scum but is town just because. So while you supported your argument well, this gets ignored. Um, I have never played a game of mafia before, let alone with Kenpachi. But at least I made an effort, you made none, and then said “Insanious and Tree.Huggers analysis of kenpachi is...” the reason you voted for Kenpachi. Don’t ignore this in a scum hunt. Things like this should show you I’m not scum. I actually did analysis and good analysis, something a mafia wouldn’t do. On December 16 2010 15:01 DCLXVI wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2010 04:18 Insanious wrote:On December 13 2010 03:34 BrownBear wrote:
iiiinteresting. It seems like town decided (again) to bandwagon onto an "inactive" then all went AFK and didn't switch onto a far more scummy person. Oh well, fairly standard for TL day 1, I guess.
I'm still torn as to whether an Alakazam should check zeks tonight, and report back. On one hand, we do want to be 100% sure. On the other, he's proven to be a decent lynch target already, and we really don't want to waste an Alakazam this early...
Gah. Um did you even read the thread... Kenpachi was one of the most active players in the thread, but every single one of his posts seemed scummy, he didn't even defend himself once he was put into first place. There was also a very close race between him and Zeks where Zeks was also kind of active... we didn't go after an inactive at all, don't know where your information is coming from...\ Also if you look, there were like 6 - 7 vote switches near the end of the vote, as well numerous people were talking in the thread asking for kenpachi to defend himself... I'm lost as to where you came up with us voting an inactive and then going inactive at the end of the vote... Pointing out a dumb post, good. So I’m scum before I’m doing good things for the town... this makes perfect sense really. On December 16 2010 15:01 DCLXVI wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2010 10:23 Insanious wrote:
Posting this from my blackberry so will be short, but I want everyone to keep in mind BB was a replacement. I don't think many people who get mafia will go and afk and leave a game when they get mafia. Just food for thought... Maybe BB is mafia and someone wanted town/ really didn't have time but just wanted to say BB is a replacement and from what I hear replacements are rarely red.
Huge break in activity excused by this post. Mediocre logic refuted later by kitaman27 I’m sorry that I go to school and have exams and cannot be online all the... wait a second. You are calling me out for activity breaks when you have made 2 36 hours breaks, and have posted basically nothing except in the last 24 hours. Seriously... On December 16 2010 15:01 DCLXVI wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2010 10:23 Insanious wrote:
Posting this from my blackberry so will be short, but I want everyone to keep in mind BB was a replacement. I don't think many people who get mafia will go and afk and leave a game when they get mafia. Just food for thought... Maybe BB is mafia and someone wanted town/ really didn't have time but just wanted to say BB is a replacement and from what I hear replacements are rarely red.
Oh no we’re all gonna die Wrong post quoted, although I counted wrong so it was a lot less “oh noes we going to die” but if you noticed, like 5 people made similar posts around this time, at least I put the numbers up for us. More than you have done all thread, heck more than most people have done... On December 16 2010 15:01 DCLXVI wrote:Show nested quote +On December 16 2010 11:23 Insanious wrote:
EBWOP:
Alright apparently I counted... there are 22 players (1 mewtwo, 6 mafia, 15 town) bright side, we have 2 cycles before we're screwed... Oh wait I can’t count. My bad Attacking me for editing my post because I miscounted, I cannot edit due to rules of the thread or this post wouldn’t exist. You do the same EBWOP after your analysis of me... should I call you out for this? At least I’m not leaving wrong information in the thread for all to read. On December 16 2010 15:01 DCLXVI wrote:Show nested quote +On December 16 2010 11:38 Insanious wrote:
Just went through the people who died posts and these are the people that they FOS'ed before they died:
Amber[LighT] the Mew was found dead. FOS Shockeyy
DarthThienAn the Alakazam was found dead.FOS Eiii, LSB, DCLXVI, dimsab, Oceanic, Brocket, Insanious (+3 people who died to make it a list of 9, not 6)
Pandain the Cloyster was found dead. FOS Seraph, DCLXVI
To me it looks like:
DCLXVI was FOS'ed by two of the players that recently died and then was killed.
Will go back through the rest of the people who were killed the night before and who they FOS'ed before they died... but might want to take a look at the people here (and yes I included everyone who didn't die, including my self) Good, this is just the stuff the town needs. Unfortunately the town forgot about it. So let see... every other time I FoS anyone in this thread, you say that there is no analysis done, and that more needs to be done. Then when my FoS is pointed at you, you go “oh look good post, but it was ignored”. Dude be consistent, more analysis needed to be done, and I did it later. This post is simply there to pull suspicion of you “He did a good analysis of me, why would I say that if I was mafia?” For me, all it does is add suspicion. Why tear me apart for my other FoS’s but not for FoS’ing you? On December 16 2010 15:01 DCLXVI wrote:Show nested quote +On December 16 2010 11:52 Insanious wrote:
deconduo
BrownBear
Eiii
dinmsab
DCLXVI
Ghrur
Node
KtheZ
tube
chaoser
Oceanic
These people are now completely lurking, no posts, just voting... meaning they are either mafia or just town that are helping the mafia... as there are 11 i'm going to say that most of them are just town that are helping the mafia win...
People that were active then stopped:
Eiii
Node
tube
Wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeee Incatives yay. Notice one that is missing? (hint, his name starts with an I and ends with an s) Why can lurkers get away with accusing others of inactivity? Well since I have more posts in this thread than almost any of the rest of the living people, I don’t think I’m inactive. I also removed anyone who posted in the last 24 hours before this post. This is more a call to activity than anything else, if people don’t start posting we will all die. At least someone pointed it out... why didn’t you? On December 16 2010 15:01 DCLXVI wrote:Show nested quote +On December 16 2010 11:55 Insanious wrote:
Now I'm going to FoS:
Ghrur:
- Only votes
- Posted to start the thread
- I believe posted to defend himself once, then disappeared again
Eiii:
- Suspicious posting at start of thread
- Once people started to notice him, he just disappeared into the shadows and stopped posting
Will actually go through there posts once I have time, just doing laundry + studying but ya... maybe I can get in some nice analysis before bed. Lets just throw some fingers around, I’ll come back and explain later. You mean what you did all post? Why are you calling me out for the things you have done all thread long? You called out 5 – 6 people, said you would do analysis, then never did... at least this is the first time I said “I’ll do analysis later” oh maybe its because I’m busy with my exams like I said I was... At least I started doing the analysis... will do Eiii later, but I need to leave for a bit, and then my last exam is tonight... so yes my activity will pick back up but thats because life got in the way, like i said it did... like my blog posts have said it did. On December 16 2010 15:01 DCLXVI wrote:Show nested quote +On December 16 2010 13:37 Insanious wrote:On December 16 2010 13:33 LSB wrote:On December 16 2010 12:36 d3_crescentia wrote:
I took the fourth hit. 3 KP + 1 SK = 4 Amber[Light]=1 Brownbear=1 Pandain=2 d3_crescentia=1 1+1+2+1=5 Explain Pandain only needed 1 hit to die... he lost his other life to the electrode from tree.hugger during night 2... This means that Pandain only needed 1 hit to die, leaving one more hit open for d3 (if he's telling the truth) Lol screw analysis I can answer questions to seem active Again, answering questions > leaving the questions unanswered. Also, if you look at the times when I posted, they were all around the same time. During my exam time I get a little bit of free time to post, but then most of my time is spent studying (like i did 14 hours of studying yesterday as of why there was not a lot of posts from me). Although, why you are calling me out for answering questions, when you don’t answer questions, do analysis, or even post regularly I don’t know... So yes, I am active, or at least I am super active compared to you. On December 16 2010 15:01 DCLXVI wrote:
And that’s it. It seemed much longer but about half the hits for “insanious” when I searched the thread were people quoting him and asking for real content, putting him on an inactive list, or asking for more contributions from him. My opinion on him changed very much over the course of this analysis. At fist he was the perfect semi lurker scum. Long fluffy posts, answering questions, appearing active. He then goes on to make several posts which I consider to be good, of course because he had the same views on subjects that I did and he backed it up with strong logic. After that he drops off in activity, only posting to FOS people without reason or call for more activity from others.
If I were to take a guess I would put him more likely to be scum/M2. His lack of activity hurts the town, and what he does post is even worse. He did have that one good spurt of posting, which I think must be to throw people off. However, many other people disagreed with his posts there so maybe I’m just wrong and he posted badly the whole game. Please read and comment on what you think about him. Especially you Insanious.
1) Most of the hits when you search me come up with people quoting my analysis actually. I have been FoS’d 3 times so far in this thread, and all of the times it’s been dropped because guess what... people have no found anything scummy about me. The only times people post “need you to post more relevant info” was at the very start when I was answering questions of people that have never played before. I loled at the "people quoting my analysis". People have been ignoring you because you post fluff to seem active but don't take stances on anything. You don't actually provide anything and the people quoting you are calling you out on it.2) I am more active than 90% of the time, there are only 2 – 3 posters more active than I am, and you are not one of them. You disappear for 36 hour long stretches, at least I only disappeared because well... I have exams, no explanation from you. WTF? Are we reading the same thread? if you count asking dumb questions and posting meaningless posts you are more active than say 65% of the thread, just above average. based on content, you are amongst the lurkers. I'm sorry I don't feel the need to whine about some excuses for inactivity.
3) All of my posts contribute to the thread, unlike most others. I either answer questions, offer analysis, or have tried to get the thread back on track. This is more than most people have done, and A LOT more than you have done. If you even look at your posts throughout the thread, there is absolutely no substance there at all in any way shape or form. Yet you call me out for my posts... No your posts are not helpful, stop lying. You answer a few questions which doesn't count as content in my book, and post one well thought out post. People please reread his posts (all in my analysis) and tell us if you think he is even remotely helpful. ------------------------------------------------------ DCLXVI calls me out for single posts that match what he has been doing all game, and then calls me scum for it. He goes “look at this post, it answers questions of noobs, he must be scum!” where he doesn’t even try to help people. He goes “Look at this great analysis that I followed! It must be a ploy by the mafia to look like a good townie and then be a scum!” If I am posting good analysis (half of the posts DCLXVI quoted he said “good, nothing I can argue here, lets ignore it” that to me shows that most of my posts are better than average... better than anything DCLXVI has posted at all.) He goes “Insanious is scum, he asked a question!” when later in the thread he asked a question as well... and hey, at least I didn’t ask my questions in PM, because the questions I got answered people needed the answers too and thanked me for asking them... scum... ya right. He goes “Insanious FoS’s people and then disappears!” Yup, did that my last post, but not at all the rest of the time in the thread. I posted analysis with every single one of my votes, Tube and Kenpachi... and yes I realize I just bandwaggoned Zeks but so did everyone else. At least its more then DCLXVI’s “Hey guys FoS on _______ will do analysis later” 5 – 6 times... To me, DCLXVI didn’t like it that I pointed out that people who FoS’d him died, and that we should lynch me for it. I wouldn’t be surprised if after my analysis of DCLXVI the mafia killed me, because they are protecting someone... Just what I read in this analysis, if you guys need me to answer why I posted something that I did, I will gladly do it. I am town, and I have been fighting for the town... I am one of the last active posters left in the town, lets not lynch someone who’s doing good, rather than someone disruptive. You seem to be reading my posts with the mindset "he is scum, how I pass this action off as scummy". I did you analysis with the mindset "what could be the reasons behind this post". Notice how every single comment by me was about your posting behavior, while your comments were all about "well i'm scummy but DCLXVI is worse". Since when is that a valid defense? I meant my analysis on you to be revealing what alignment you are, whereas yours was to pin me as scum because I posted content on you. I pointed out the scummy and pro town posts you made, but somehow you took everything I said as an attack against you. Paranoid much? I was willing to accept you as a townie, but you seem to either fail at reading my posts or you purposely want to paint me as scum. Was I pressuring you too much? Calling you from your lair of inactivity causes this reaction? No true townie would act that way.+ Show Spoiler +ps if you want me to answer any of your specific questions about my/your analysis please post them separately. No one is going to bother reading that many nested quotes, so if there is anything important let me know. Also I got the "post is too long" warning so I had to cut it up
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On December 17 2010 03:37 DCLXVI wrote:
previous inactive poster, I have had quite a lot to say in the past 2 days or so. Then again I still managed to post a reasonable amount compared to the rest of the players. I'm not saying I was active very much then, but you seem to ignore everything that I did post with content.
What content? Even look through every post you made:
(In the spoiler is a small analysis of every post that DLXVI made, you can either look at my original post and what I wrote or at this to see what I mean, but if you read what he wrote or just this you will see that he has done nothing to add to the thread but FoS people)
+ Show Spoiler +
1st post – “Sorry I’m late, just read the thread” No analysis, FoS’d 4 people (Gabe, Brocket, Hesmyrr, infund)
2nd post – “Thank you insanious and tree.hugger, I hope to see more people post like that” No more analysis on anything, just a huge post saying “I’m voting kenpachi”
3rd post – FoS Gab in a 1 liner
4th post – “I did my best, no regrets” look at your previous posts... you didn’t do anything, why are you apologizing? Then you say “I want to write up some analysis” and then don’t.
5th post – Two questions, adding nothing to thread. No analysis like your said you would do in your post.
6th post – Again no analysis, this is 36 hours after your 5th post, and you come on to FoS Gab with no analysis of anything.
7th post – Sarastically FoS’ing Brocket. No analysis, even though you’ve had over 2 days since your last post saying you would post some analysis.
8th post – “Sorry I’m trying to be more active” once again apologizing for no reason. Then you write 3 paragraphs saying “mafia is killing the active players” BUNCH of fluff, no added info since that had already been posted 3 times before hand. You also ask the DTs to role-claim, then you say you’ll do analysis in your next post.
9th post – No analysis still, you’ve been saying you would get more active and analyze people for 6 days now... Then you don’t really defend yourself just “these guys looked scummy to me so I voted them” and then you call out a bandwagon that never happend (Shockeyy wasn’t a bandwagon) and then you FoS D3, LSB, and Amber... these being your 9th FoS this game with 0 analysis so you think 1/3 of the town is mafia without doing any analysis at this point.
10th post – Still no analysis, just flame warring with d3, cluttering up the thread.
11th post – Calling out D3 for “terrible posts” when you have yet to post anything with any content, any analysis, or even an FoS with any sort of back up at all.
12th post – Conspiracy theories, again no analysis yet, but your activity is up since D3 called you out.
13th post – Again more flaming, not adding to the thread at all. FoS’ing me after I FoS’ed you
14th post – Your analysis on me that came because I FoS’d you, that doesn’t even analyze my posting...
15th post – Random spam
16th post – EBWOP from 2 posts ago
17th post – More spam, going to bed.
Analysis if your posting:
Everything you have posted is spam or an FoS with no analysis or reasoning. The only time you put in any effort to your posting is when you “analyzed” me after I FoS’d you. You made an “analysis” that doesn’t even make me look scummy, since well half of the things you posted were “his posts look good”.
FoS’ing a productive member of society and being called out on it, so you come back and you respond with the same rhetoric you have been all game “I’ve been posting well and you haven’t” no you haven’t but I have been. FoS someone who might actually be scum, or defend yourself. You are the only one who thinks that I am scum and I have yet to make a scummy post, unlike you have.
Want me to go more indepth when it comes to your posts?
2) Poster that when ever he posted something FoS'd someone random, then disapeared
Is this english?
I apologize, what I meant to say was that whenever you posted, all game, you would FoS someone then disappear. Happened in posts 1,3,6,9, 11, 13 totalling to 9 distinct FoS, not including Zeks and Kenpachi who you voted for, taking it to 11 distinct FoS’s.
aside from my criticism of some people's ideas and my recent analysis on you
Yes sorry, its not scummy that you have 17 token/spammy posts, and then 1 analysis of the guy that FoS’d you.
That is a Lie, I never posted anything remotely like that
Sorry, to me the whole “just read the thread...” thing you did all game long seemed like you were saying that you didn’t have a chance to read the thread before, was just getting through it, but was posting just to add an opinion. I guess it would make sense that during your multiple 36 hour absences you would of read the thread at least a couple times, sorry.
yeah i never defend myself... did you even read my posts? and where do you get the idea that I am mainly defending Gabe?
+ Show Spoiler +Post 9 – defends Gabriel, only defense he has for himself is that “we should of killed kenpachi anyway since his posting was bad and not helping”
Post 10 – Flaming D3 rather then even trying to defend himself against his accuser. He could of posted with a level head and tried to defuse the situation but instead he flames D3 and the war continues...
Post 11 – Instead of defending himself, he switches to the offensive “You don’t seem to understand that I’m calling you out...” doesn’t offer any reason as to why he is green/blue (as there is none) but tries to steer suspicion onto D3
Post 13 – Again flaming D3 “I find your analysis lacking” instead of defending himself, he tries to belittle D3.
Post 17 – Again attacks me personally, instead of showing posts or analysis of his own posts to defend himself.
Post 18 – Attacking me again (“people are ignoring you analysis” the analysis I did swayed your vote, wasn’t ignored.) Again, attacking me personally (“Dumb questions and meaningless posts” even though I was congratulated on my questions, and have been congratulated on my analysis as well...
Calls my posts “unhelpful” even though my posts were part of the analysis that people have followed, they got more information to the town, and my posts have been more than just random FoS’s.
Then he tries to dismiss my analysis with “you must be reading my posts with the mindset ‘he is scum, how can i pass this action off as scummy’” no, this is how you approached me. I looked at your posts and went “no analysis, fluff, mass FoS, only is active when attacked... looks like scum to me”
Here’s my rebuttal, with which posts you made that I made my analysis based on. Ex. For refuting what content he posts, i posted all of his posts and found one with content, and 17 with no content. You can look at the posts of his if you want just: click on profile, click on posts, and then look for the Pokemafia thread and count his posts out to the one you want to see.
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Thourough analysis of my own posting habbits and what I was thinking when posting them:
+ Show Spoiler ++ Show Spoiler +On December 10 2010 07:19 Insanious wrote: Professor Oak was way better than Rowen, or the other Professors throughout the different lands, this is the saddest start to a mafia ever. Everyone else was posting condolences for Professor Oak, and I didn’t want to be one of the few that did not. As well, posting at the start keeps it at the top of the forum, meaning people are more likely to look in, read and post something useful. This is my first mafia game, so I had no idea what to look for. + Show Spoiler +On December 10 2010 08:04 Insanious wrote:Show nested quote +On December 10 2010 07:56 LSB wrote:On December 10 2010 07:46 Amber[LighT] wrote:On December 10 2010 07:42 Oceanic wrote:
Doesn't it say in 1 of the guides posted that lynching an inactive day 1 is not something you should do? Lynching an inactive typically results in lynching an apathetic townie. Everyone should be posting frequently to discuss who should die for day 1. There are no PM's so everything should be out in the open. We should really worry less about how the blues should play. Thinks like role checks won't be overly reliable, and saving people cannot be discussed in the thread. It probably would be a good idea for the electrodes to think about where to place voltorbs and pick up on good scum tells. Having a general system for how blues play is pretty important. We need to establish a good town environment where the most pro-town players won't find themselves dead. We need to establish a place where everyone is active. Sure, we could leave everything to RNG, but we could do so much more with the blues. I have to agree with this, having a general idea of how the town runs will help keep down the number of accidental lynchings. This is more or less pulled from one of the guides that DcH posted, but when you have a town that uses larger posts, filled with a lot of information, it makes it a lot easier to pick out those that want to give no new information and are simply regurgitating stuff that has already been said in the thread.If we start with a town that runs this way, it should carry through to the end of the game. The best way to keep a town that functions correctly functioning this way would be to keep the people that are running in a more administrative fashion (i guess i could say that) where they are trying to keep some semblance of order alive. I mean a town that runs all willy-nilly chaotic is a town that breeds scum, where a town that runs in a more ordered fashion has a higher chance of weeding out those that are trying to bring disorder to an already disorderly situation. Show nested quote +On December 10 2010 08:01 Kenpachi wrote:
how many people can Mafia target per night? It says that the mafia get 3kp, added to this mewtwo (although not part of the mafia, is still playing against the town) has 1kp. This means there can be 3 mafia targets, and 1 third party target a night. I wanted to do a couple things with this post, and fluff was not one of them. I had read the sign up thread as well as the blog that was posted for this mafia, and knew that at least 1/3 of the players playing were new. As well, I assumed most of them had not done any research into mafia and as such would be just as if not more lost than my self. So I made a two part post: Part 1: when you have a town that uses larger posts, filled with a lot of information, it makes it a lot easier to pick out those that want to give no new information and are simply regurgitating stuff that has already been said in the thread. This is what I wanted to get across, would I have known this if I didn’t read the guides DocH posted? NO I would not, so I assumed other people in here would not. People would post random stuff, one liners and the thread would degrade into nothingness... and guess what. No one took the advice from here, we have tonnes of tiny posts, and we have no analysis and we have no idea who is red or not. Maybe if people would of actually taken this seriously and not just as fluff... Part 2: Helping out someone who didn’t know something is always good, and always something that should be done in thread. I wanted to get the info out there for everyone to know, if you ask questions in a PM then guess what, your the only one that knows the answer and this is BAD for the town. I read a mafia game (http://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?126828-StarWars-Return-of-the-Sith-Concluded) Where the mafia asks the GM what happens if there is a tie in the voting, people in the town assumed that the first one voted would be killed, in this game on the other hand no one dies in the event of a tie. So the mafia get to waste a lynch. Who knows what information will be useful, what information will prevent the mafia killing someone important... so people knowing the rules is MUCH better than people asking for rule clarification in a PM and then half the players knowing nothing. + Show Spoiler +On December 10 2010 08:20 Insanious wrote:Show nested quote +On December 10 2010 08:11 Eiii wrote:There always seem to be posts about how we all need to establish a 'pro-town environment', which is obvious of course I (and I'm sure lots of other newer players) have no clue what that *means* though, especially when we can't PM each other. (That might turn out to be more of a blessing than a curse though.) So... can someone enlighten me? I'm newer at this as well, but have been reading a few mafia games, but i think some of the things people want in a pro-town environment are: - Longer, well thought out posts. This way ideas don't get lost. If you post a million tiny posts people can get bored, or will skip over having to read like 5 pages when everything could have just been put into a single longer post and people will have less to read. This way the town can see people who are posting small posts that try to bury information. - Long, well thought out accusations of scum. If you have posts that have like 8 quotes in them, people can better see a pattern in someones behavior. This can also help stop bandwagoning onto an innocent, as with a long post someone has a lot of information to refute, and you can also then point out scum who are using selective posts. This way it is easier to spot people who are trying to mislead the town. - Less peer-pressure, in a more pro-town environment there is less calling out of people, this can result in less blues being forced to reveal, which not only makes the town more vulnerable but also forces a chancey (in this case) to protect the blue for fear that they die. As well, this can reduce the amount of greens that need to reveal, that make them vulnerable due to them no longer being able to be lynch bait. I think those are more or less the major points of a more pro-town environment rather than an anti-town environment, if I missed anything just add to the list. Again helping out the town, Eiii asked a question, even Kenpachi did not know what a “pro-town” environment was... and guess what, if you read what I wrote, even though everyone wrote this off as “fluff” we don’t have a pro-town environment. We have a pro-mafia environment as there is no analysis, no large posts, and no leavel-headedness. Maybe next time people should not just write things off as fluff and actually pay attention to what is being said. + Show Spoiler +On December 10 2010 09:29 Insanious wrote:Show nested quote +On December 10 2010 08:53 jcarlsoniv wrote:On December 10 2010 08:04 Insanious wrote:On December 10 2010 07:56 LSB wrote:On December 10 2010 07:46 Amber[LighT] wrote:On December 10 2010 07:42 Oceanic wrote:
Doesn't it say in 1 of the guides posted that lynching an inactive day 1 is not something you should do? Lynching an inactive typically results in lynching an apathetic townie. Everyone should be posting frequently to discuss who should die for day 1. There are no PM's so everything should be out in the open. We should really worry less about how the blues should play. Thinks like role checks won't be overly reliable, and saving people cannot be discussed in the thread. It probably would be a good idea for the electrodes to think about where to place voltorbs and pick up on good scum tells. Having a general system for how blues play is pretty important. We need to establish a good town environment where the most pro-town players won't find themselves dead. We need to establish a place where everyone is active. Sure, we could leave everything to RNG, but we could do so much more with the blues. I have to agree with this, having a general idea of how the town runs will help keep down the number of accidental lynchings. This is more or less pulled from one of the guides that DcH posted, but when you have a town that uses larger posts, filled with a lot of information, it makes it a lot easier to pick out those that want to give no new information and are simply regurgitating stuff that has already been said in the thread.If we start with a town that runs this way, it should carry through to the end of the game. The best way to keep a town that functions correctly functioning this way would be to keep the people that are running in a more administrative fashion (i guess i could say that) where they are trying to keep some semblance of order alive. I mean a town that runs all willy-nilly chaotic is a town that breeds scum, where a town that runs in a more ordered fashion has a higher chance of weeding out those that are trying to bring disorder to an already disorderly situation. On December 10 2010 08:01 Kenpachi wrote:
how many people can Mafia target per night? It says that the mafia get 3kp, added to this mewtwo (although not part of the mafia, is still playing against the town) has 1kp. This means there can be 3 mafia targets, and 1 third party target a night. You mean like this post is doing? From your two posts, I've noticed you haven't really added too much at all. Your first post was almost exclusively regurgitating previous posts. Your second one you seemed to be trying to add more, saying you've read guides, and it appears that you are trying hard to look like the poster child of "how to be a townie". Everyone pretty much knows the environment that is conducive to town progress. It is very apparent when scum tries to disrupt things if they are going smoothly. We just have to catch them as they are doing it before things spiral out of control. Townies don't need to try to look like townies, because they already are. Two newer mafia players asked two questions, I was simply answering them. Its not like I was just throwing that info out there as if it was anything new. Eiii asked what a pro-town environment entitled, while Kenpachi asked how many attacks the mafia can make in a night. Both of which they could of found by reading what DrH posted, but I thought it would be nice to answer both questions... I guess if you would rather I could of simply just not answered their questions and left them guessing. Me defending myself, I didn’t attack anyone, I didn’t FoS anyone. I just said why I posted this, and guess what jcarl thought it was a good answer and dropped the FoS on me for my posts. + Show Spoiler +On December 10 2010 13:56 Insanious wrote:
Completely random I know... but can someone tell me how to get to the voting thread. On the front page it says "vote in a separate thread found here" but there's no link on here, or after it. I think I missed where it was listed and would be nice to be able to see the votes... I have a feeling I'm missing something very obvious. I didn’t know where to vote, I didn’t want to be mod killed. I assumed since there were 10 new players in this game, they wouldn’t know where to vote either and guess what... On December 10 2010 13:57 Brocket wrote:
I'm glad you asked that insanious because I also don't know. That’s one more townie that doesn’t get mod killed for not voting... and there might have been more people that didn’t respond to me that didn’t know where to vote. Knowledge is power, and the town has very little... keeping people in the know helps. + Show Spoiler +On December 10 2010 14:10 Insanious wrote:
You can change votes right, like ##unvote XXXX; Vote XXXX or no?
Also to actually contribute to the thread somewhat, I really don't like either of the bandwagons we have going. Infun hasn't really done anything, especially not to garner the wrath of 10% of the people playing this game. On the other hand Gab came off a little rough and confrontational, but I really don't think he came off that scummy... Two parts: Question: I helped someone out with my previous question, and the way the OP was worded it seemed like you couldn’t change your vote. This helps me, and helps anyone else that read the OP the same way I did. Added part: like 2 – 3 people called me out for asking a question before (even though I wasn’t the only one wondering where to vote). So I tried to add something to the end. Up to this point in the thread, there were few posts, and there was already a bandwagon. After reading some of the mafias I know that once a bandwagon gets going, its hard to stop. Infun had 3 people voting for him with no reason, I didn’t want to see Infun die at the start of the game simply because people didn’t think and just voted like sheep. + Show Spoiler +On December 10 2010 15:22 Insanious wrote:
So now we have 4 people voting for Gabriel with little to no explanation... actually I think like only 1 person explained why they were voting for Gab and the other three didn't even say they were voting for him or why... bandwagon on an active, outspoken player? Me no likey... Then we get a complete change, and now people are off Infun and voting for Gabriel. I again didn’t want a bandwagon without reasoning so I spoke up. Apparently this is scummy. We didn’t have a lot going for us at the start of the game, so to me it made more sense to try and figure out a scum or find someone who wasn’t participating to kill... but I would rather kill someone not participating later then make an irreversible bandwagon on someone now. + Show Spoiler +On December 10 2010 15:26 Insanious wrote:
sorry my post makes little sense... for some reason f5 wasn't refreshing the page, so anything from my post before this to this post I didn't see when I posted... sorry. Appologizing becuse my two post before hand was posted after a lot of people talked about Gabriel, and TL wasn’t refreshing for me... so it refreshed after I posted this, which was after some analysis. + Show Spoiler +On December 11 2010 05:26 Insanious wrote:
Gab cant really explain him self :/, there isnt enough info in the game to do so... and I mean from the looks of it, it looks like Gab was just trying to push peoples buttons to see their reaction to his posts about who he thought was scum, that go way overboard and suddenly 1/6th of the people in this game are voting that he is scum...
People are like "its only 6 out of 31" but really, once a bandwagon gets running its hard to stop unless you slow it down early... I don't think any more votes on Gab right now will help the town, all it will do is seal Gab's fate... People were screaming at Gabriel to defend himself, defend youself! Well, there weren’t a lot of posts, and Gabriel was defending himself, which people took as him being scummy... well to me it just looked like someone who was trying to get people to talk, it backfired on them and then they went “well shit, there’s no posts for me to quote to prove that I’m not scum since there are no posts in the thread” and then people jumped on him. His posting wasn’t scummy, and his reaction to being attacked was lighter than anyone elses in the thread... which is noted later. + Show Spoiler +On December 11 2010 13:42 Insanious wrote:
tube your acting simply just very confrontational right now... what chaoser was trying to say is that you have to start the game somewhere. Promoting lynching inactives is a place to start. You never want to end with simply lynching inactives, but the discussion between whether we lynch or do not lynch inactives can actually lead to something that can be analyzed.
Look at every mafia game here, or on any other site and it always starts with the "do we lynch inactives or not", why? Because it gets people talking, and unless people talk then we will never ever find scum.
Activity is counter productive to the mafia, as that means they have to participate more, and that gives them more chances to slip up.
LSB started on the convo, but now we have found a few people acting scummy, and as such we are no longer talking about lynching inactives, but weather to lynch people who've actually said something.
Do we lynch Kenpachi for his posting habbits, Gab for his out burst, Infun for his previous actions, LSB for trying to be the head of the town, or you for just angrily, randomly, accusing people of being scum.
This is where the game should be focused, but we needed a start... and lynching inactives is a start. tube over reacts worse then Gabriel, but there is no suspicion put on tube, so I FoS’d him. I also tried to rebuttal people’s arguments about to vote or not to vote inactives, saying the persons position doesn’t matter, its how they post. You need to start somewhere for people to post things and that is somewhere to start without instant FoS. The idea was to drop the whole “you are scum because your for voting inactives” “no, scum are against killing inactives!” was getting us no where... on the other hand the posts between Gab and Kenpachi, Gab and Tube were getting us places as there were posts then available to be analyzed. + Show Spoiler +On December 11 2010 17:14 Insanious wrote:Hell anyone else notice a trend... 1) Gabe accuses Kenpachi 2) Kenpachi tries to defend himself poorly 3) Kenpachi votes for Gabe 4) Jcarl jumps in and defends Ken, while trying to put a case against Gabe 5) People bandwagon Gabe 6) People start to look else where for scum 7) Kenpachi jumps in and makes us look back at Gabe 8) Gabe tries to ignore Ken, and tries to act like the rest of us (Eii, Chaos, tube, etc...) 9) Jcarl comes back and tries to get us to focus back on Gabe Kenpachi and Jcarl, why you two working so closely together to try and get us to hang Gabe when a large part of the town is like "... Gabe really doesn't look that scummy..." Show nested quote +On December 11 2010 16:58 Eiii wrote:
...gabes posts are so blatantly bad I'm actually starting to have a hard time believing they could possibly be authored by scum. o_O Show nested quote +On December 11 2010 08:30 KtheZ wrote:
I'm not sure if we should really take Gabriel's actions that greatly into consideration. Considering that he is a relatively veteran player, I don't think the bandwagon against him is of great value. If he was mafia, isnt it common sense for them to talk about a game plan and think things out before posting, rather than actively arguing with people?
Show nested quote +On December 11 2010 04:28 LSB wrote:
The problem is now, why the bandwagon the bandwagon against Gabriel took place.
(i'll look into it later, right now I'm hard pressed for time) Show nested quote +On December 11 2010 04:15 Hesmyrr wrote:
There is one possible reason why I am willing to give Gabriel null-read for now, but I am going to wait for him to come and explain himself first to see if his argument agrees with mine. Show nested quote +On December 11 2010 03:15 seRapH wrote:
Oh come on guys, 5 people voting for Gabriel out of nowhere? He hasn't really been very scummy imo. I'm keeping an eye on this bandwagon for scum, it's very likely that someone amongst these 5 are poison-type pokemon, maybe even multiple of them.
- - - - - - - - - - - - Show nested quote +On December 11 2010 02:44 jcarlsoniv wrote:
I agree with you, which is why I'm not convinced he's scum. He is making wild accusations though that is disrupting everything, and even if he's town, removing that isn't necessarily a bad thing. However, if we can find scum, I definitely want that, obviously. I just want Gabriel to have an eye kept on him. ^^^ huh? Isn't that contradictory to the two huge posts you made against Gabe? "I don't think he's scum... but let's vote him and then see what happens!" Analysis of kenpachi and jcarl, me trying to help. Since no one else was doing analysis I thought maybe I should start... once someone starts it would start other people analyzing posts right? Wrong, people just bandwagon onto the analysis without doing any thinking of their own, awesome... At least people liked my analysis of Kenpachi.... + Show Spoiler +On December 12 2010 03:19 Insanious wrote:Show nested quote +On December 12 2010 02:30 Kenpachi wrote:
asdf. even when i post, i get pointed scum Its not THAT you post, its WHAT you post... the problem is that all of your posts are spam and none of them offer anything. I actually also prepared a case against you, but tree.hugger got there before me so I didn't think I should post everything you wrote again, but really: + Show Spoiler +On December 10 2010 06:55 Kenpachi wrote:
yes! got my pm and the games beginning~ Very excited over his role, that's not that unusual... On December 10 2010 07:11 Kenpachi wrote:
oh shit.. i cant really imagine Professor Oak dead D: Until you see that he posts against 16 minutes later just to spam that he's in the game, wouldn't the post before hand of been enough? All this does is clutter up the thread with no additional content. Post could not have happened. On December 10 2010 07:47 Kenpachi wrote:
Pikachu - Townie
Raichu - Miller
Chansey - Medic
Cloyster - Veteran
Alakazam - Detective
Electrode - Mad Hatter
Mew - Special Detective
Gengar - God Father
Koffing - Mafia Grunt
Weezing - Mafia Shrink
Mewtwo - 3rd Party Vigilante
notice how our only way of killing at night is Mad Hatter and 3rd party.. 3rd party is technically against us and will probably kill town over mafia due to immunity and their goal is to be last alive. Then he continues with the spam. Here he posts a list of the pokemon roles to normal mafia roles. This is something that looks helpful, but isn't helpful at all. Everyone would of red the starting post to see what the roles do, equating them with other words isn't helpful in the least, but it does SEEM helpful. As well, he also points out that the reds have little to fear from the town besides lynching as there are no vig killers. Why does he point that out? Re-leaved? On December 10 2010 07:50 Kenpachi wrote:
yea claiming is a no no. and i hate lynching inactives. doesnt work at all. Again, more spam... seems like he is posting every 10 minutes or less, just to rack up posts. He says it doesn't work, but doesn't explain why. He is simply shooting down an idea without adding to the conversation. This kills information flow, something a red would like to do. If he was green/blue, he could of posted more to his opinion,why he thought that. Something with more meat "Claiming is a no no because there are so many mafia that any lies will take forever for the DT to check out, as well it will make our blues more susceptible as then the mafia will know who exactly to hit every-night." Even that is less suspicious than what Ken posted. On December 10 2010 08:01 Kenpachi wrote:
how many people can Mafia target per night? His last post previous showed that he read the starting post, as he pulled the names and roles of the different jobs from the starting post, but then why does he feign ignorance? If you read what all the roles did, do you expect me to believe that he didn't scroll down a few lines to see how many KP the mafia got? If he would of just read the OP, instead of posting this it would of been less suspicious. But this seems like another thing scum do, play the "I'm new card" this is a subtle one, that just says "look at me asking this noob question, i must not know much" it is a defense as people are less likely to lynch a new player than an experienced one. On December 10 2010 08:12 Kenpachi wrote:Show nested quote +On December 10 2010 08:11 Eiii wrote:There always seem to be posts about how we all need to establish a 'pro-town environment', which is obvious of course I (and I'm sure lots of other newer players) have no clue what that *means* though, especially when we can't PM each other. (That might turn out to be more of a blessing than a curse though.) So... can someone enlighten me? basically, where we can point out scum easily without confusing them as town.. i think Here he is answering a question, without actually answering the question. He posts something that looks like an answer but offers no real insight at all. He doesn't explain what a pro-town environment is, he just simply states what it should look like and then moves on. It is just clutter, that can also just act as a way to confuse a newer player. Not to mention, Eiii might of been less likely to ask the question against later even though it wasn't really responded to simply to avoid looking foolish after kenpachi, a more experienced player, "answered" it. If he was town, he should of just ignored this, or went to one of the links DocH posted and just copie-pasted the analysis of a pro-town environment, both would of done more good. On December 10 2010 08:14 Kenpachi wrote:Show nested quote +On December 10 2010 08:13 KtheZ wrote:
Do we have a limited amount of double lynches? I think its 2. Including this to include all his posts, answering a question where he simply copies from the OP... again. (note this is not scummy behaviour, but i wanted to include all posts) On December 10 2010 11:30 Kenpachi wrote:Show nested quote +On December 10 2010 11:20 Gabriel wrote:
Interesting: my half good "im new" shot is now voting for me. Kenpachi care to explain
A) your vote
B) your deep posts?
what? Pure spam... adds nothing to the conversation. Would have been better to actually refute the claims instead of spam here. He could of looked like a green/blue, but instead he continues to post like a red, more spam and more dismissal of arguments without any sound logic. On December 10 2010 11:34 Kenpachi wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On December 10 2010 11:20 Gabriel wrote:Interesting: my half good "im new" shot is now voting for me. Kenpachi care to explain A) your vote B) your deep posts? + Show Spoiler +On December 10 2010 07:11 Kenpachi wrote:
oh shit.. i cant really imagine Professor Oak dead D: On December 10 2010 07:47 Kenpachi wrote:
Pikachu - Townie
Raichu - Miller
Chansey - Medic
Cloyster - Veteran
Alakazam - Detective
Electrode - Mad Hatter
Mew - Special Detective
Gengar - God Father
Koffing - Mafia Grunt
Weezing - Mafia Shrink
Mewtwo - 3rd Party Vigilante
notice how our only way of killing at night is Mad Hatter and 3rd party.. 3rd party is technically against us and will probably kill town over mafia due to immunity and their goal is to be last alive. On December 10 2010 07:50 Kenpachi wrote:
yea claiming is a no no. and i hate lynching inactives. doesnt work at all. On December 10 2010 08:01 Kenpachi wrote:
how many people can Mafia target per night? On December 10 2010 08:12 Kenpachi wrote:Show nested quote +On December 10 2010 08:11 Eiii wrote:There always seem to be posts about how we all need to establish a 'pro-town environment', which is obvious of course I (and I'm sure lots of other newer players) have no clue what that *means* though, especially when we can't PM each other. (That might turn out to be more of a blessing than a curse though.) So... can someone enlighten me? basically, where we can point out scum easily without confusing them as town.. i think On December 10 2010 08:14 Kenpachi wrote:Show nested quote +On December 10 2010 08:13 KtheZ wrote:
Do we have a limited amount of double lynches? I think its 2. what would posting history 4 hours into the game show you? Posts two seconds later, more spam, and again... doesn't add anything. Doesn't refute the claim against him, does not try to argue against Gab at all, he simply just tries to dismiss any claim against him without even a logical argument. On December 10 2010 11:44 Kenpachi wrote:Show nested quote +On December 10 2010 11:40 Gabriel wrote:On December 10 2010 11:34 Kenpachi wrote:On December 10 2010 11:20 Gabriel wrote:Interesting: my half good "im new" shot is now voting for me. Kenpachi care to explain A) your vote B) your deep posts? + Show Spoiler +On December 10 2010 07:11 Kenpachi wrote:
oh shit.. i cant really imagine Professor Oak dead D: On December 10 2010 07:47 Kenpachi wrote:
Pikachu - Townie
Raichu - Miller
Chansey - Medic
Cloyster - Veteran
Alakazam - Detective
Electrode - Mad Hatter
Mew - Special Detective
Gengar - God Father
Koffing - Mafia Grunt
Weezing - Mafia Shrink
Mewtwo - 3rd Party Vigilante
notice how our only way of killing at night is Mad Hatter and 3rd party.. 3rd party is technically against us and will probably kill town over mafia due to immunity and their goal is to be last alive. On December 10 2010 07:50 Kenpachi wrote:
yea claiming is a no no. and i hate lynching inactives. doesnt work at all. On December 10 2010 08:01 Kenpachi wrote:
how many people can Mafia target per night? On December 10 2010 08:12 Kenpachi wrote:Show nested quote +On December 10 2010 08:11 Eiii wrote:There always seem to be posts about how we all need to establish a 'pro-town environment', which is obvious of course I (and I'm sure lots of other newer players) have no clue what that *means* though, especially when we can't PM each other. (That might turn out to be more of a blessing than a curse though.) So... can someone enlighten me? basically, where we can point out scum easily without confusing them as town.. i think On December 10 2010 08:14 Kenpachi wrote:Show nested quote +On December 10 2010 08:13 KtheZ wrote:
Do we have a limited amount of double lynches? I think its 2. what would posting history 4 hours into the game show you? A) You dont want to be active posting B) You want to "look" active C) You read the rules but you actually dont know mafia KP? That was rare. D) You dont want to lynch inactives because that doesnt work. E) You want enlightment. F) You vote for me out of literally nowhere. I mean: i post to flip Infundibulum and you come right after me. Care to explain at least? A) 4 hours does not judge that. what if i went on TL tomorrow for the first time in the past 3 days? B) Anyone who posts would want to look active.. Why would they post if they want to look inactive? C) Why are you assuming i read the rules? how do you know i didnt just assume the KP? D) It doesnt. shh E) ?? its enlightenment F) I dont agree with you voting for Infundibulum. Here, he doesn't even refute the arguments brought against him. A) Says 4 hours isn't enough time to judge activity, and then he says something that makes no sence B) He says posting = activity, but it doesn't... Kenpachi posts empty posts that make him look active without contributing... posting without content does not make you an active member of the comunity. C) He says he didn't read the rules here... even though he posted the roles as his 3rd post in the game. So he read the rules but didn't read the rules? D) Says lynching inactives doesn't work, but not why... E) K this one doesn't make sense... F) Ken voted Gab as soon as Gab voted Infini, even though Gab said he voted Infini for past actions... On December 10 2010 12:12 Kenpachi wrote:Show nested quote +On December 10 2010 11:57 Gabriel wrote:On December 10 2010 11:44 Kenpachi wrote:On December 10 2010 11:40 Gabriel wrote:On December 10 2010 11:34 Kenpachi wrote:On December 10 2010 11:20 Gabriel wrote:Interesting: my half good "im new" shot is now voting for me. Kenpachi care to explain A) your vote B) your deep posts? + Show Spoiler +On December 10 2010 07:11 Kenpachi wrote:
oh shit.. i cant really imagine Professor Oak dead D: On December 10 2010 07:47 Kenpachi wrote:
Pikachu - Townie
Raichu - Miller
Chansey - Medic
Cloyster - Veteran
Alakazam - Detective
Electrode - Mad Hatter
Mew - Special Detective
Gengar - God Father
Koffing - Mafia Grunt
Weezing - Mafia Shrink
Mewtwo - 3rd Party Vigilante
notice how our only way of killing at night is Mad Hatter and 3rd party.. 3rd party is technically against us and will probably kill town over mafia due to immunity and their goal is to be last alive. On December 10 2010 07:50 Kenpachi wrote:
yea claiming is a no no. and i hate lynching inactives. doesnt work at all. On December 10 2010 08:01 Kenpachi wrote:
how many people can Mafia target per night? On December 10 2010 08:12 Kenpachi wrote:Show nested quote +On December 10 2010 08:11 Eiii wrote:There always seem to be posts about how we all need to establish a 'pro-town environment', which is obvious of course I (and I'm sure lots of other newer players) have no clue what that *means* though, especially when we can't PM each other. (That might turn out to be more of a blessing than a curse though.) So... can someone enlighten me? basically, where we can point out scum easily without confusing them as town.. i think On December 10 2010 08:14 Kenpachi wrote:Show nested quote +On December 10 2010 08:13 KtheZ wrote:
Do we have a limited amount of double lynches? I think its 2. what would posting history 4 hours into the game show you? A) You dont want to be active posting B) You want to "look" active C) You read the rules but you actually dont know mafia KP? That was rare. D) You dont want to lynch inactives because that doesnt work. E) You want enlightment. F) You vote for me out of literally nowhere. I mean: i post to flip Infundibulum and you come right after me. Care to explain at least? A) 4 hours does not judge that. what if i went on TL tomorrow for the first time in the past 3 days? B) Anyone who posts would want to look active.. Why would they post if they want to look inactive? C) Why are you assuming i read the rules? how do you know i didnt just assume the KP? D) It doesnt. shh E) ?? its enlightenment F) I dont agree with you voting for Infundibulum. A) Well you just wrote 7 one liners and have yet to post something relevant. B) But you are NOT. It is not about how you look. Come on that is not an argument, so you post one liners to look active? what is that? Sparta? C) Well you actually read the rules because you posted the pokemon/classicmafia relation. I wonder why you just couldnt look for the mafia KP, and insisted to look clueless asking for it. D) It doesnt? well you were pretty much inactive and so was Infundibulum. Maybe it does. E) You think too much. You have again 2 posts where you "think" about this "think" about that, when it is clear that those post refer to info available in the opening rules. This heavily smells like "im not too sure, i dont know" plot. F) So you agree that you are protecting infundibulum by voting me: More reason to flip him!. A) There isnt much to post in the beginning, due to low information and lack of suspicion. B) I am not what? I posted in the beginning to "look" active because i have a history of lurking. C) You are still assuming i read the rules. Did i read or skim it? Did i read it but pass the KP? I posted that in the thread for people who also didnt know to possibly take a burden off many people. D)Idk man. you found a bunch of posts in the beginning and call me inactive? Refer to B). Why am i posting to "look" active? E) "I think its 2." hey i only played 1 game with Double Lynch before. F) your logic is flawed. i can vote for anyone i want to and im defending Infundibulum by not voting for him. Why do you think youre gonna be the main bandwagon from 1 vote? A) Says there isn't much to post in the begining, but then why post at all? Ken has something like 1/4 of the posts in the thread up to this point... why spam if there is nothing to spam about? B) So he has a history of lurking, so he just suddenly decides to change his game? From lurker to spammer? C) So now he skimmed the rules, but posted part of the rules in this thread... so apparently when he skims he picks up 100% of some rules but 0% of others? D) K Gab makes stupid argument here E) Again, refering to posting part of the rules, but then claiming to not have read the OP F) Does not refute the "defending infun by voting for Gab" thing that Gab brings up... but he does say that Gab is flawed in believing he will become the main bandwagon... and then becomes the main bandwagon Basically all my arguments are in that spoiler, would just be huge since I quoted every single post that Kenpachi made. Just the major points that I think Kenpachi is scummy: 1) A gigantic amount of posts that add nothing to the game. 11 posts in under 5 hours all of which add nothing to the game. His spam was especially apparent at the start of the game. 2) He posts about the rules found in the OP, and then repeatedly claims he never read the OP. This just doesn't make sense, how can you quote the OP without reading it... this just seems very scummy to me. 3) Answering questions without answering the questions. He posts as if he is answering a question, but then offers no information. This makes it seem like he is helping players, but he is simply confusing them more. 4) No arguments when called out. Gab calls Kenpachi out, Kenpachi posts 2 posts that say nothing and then disappears for a day... 5) While disappeared, the person that called him out is suddenly the bandwagon of the day (started by Kenpachi), and no one is questioning Kenpachi anymore. (even though others were investigating Kenpachi as well when Gab was.) This just seems very scummy... comes on, spams a lot, posts contradictory statements, gets called out, gets the guy that calls him out bandwaggoned, then disappears. This was supposed to be a warning to those playing, that posting like a scum will get you hanged. Because its not that you post and are not inactive, its what you post. That its important to have substance and if you do not, then you look scummy and aren’t helping the town. Zeks and Kenpachi both posted this way... a lot of players are still posting this way with no substance, but you need to start putting meat on your posts or we will get no where. + Show Spoiler +On December 13 2010 04:18 Insanious wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2010 03:34 BrownBear wrote:
iiiinteresting. It seems like town decided (again) to bandwagon onto an "inactive" then all went AFK and didn't switch onto a far more scummy person. Oh well, fairly standard for TL day 1, I guess.
I'm still torn as to whether an Alakazam should check zeks tonight, and report back. On one hand, we do want to be 100% sure. On the other, he's proven to be a decent lynch target already, and we really don't want to waste an Alakazam this early...
Gah. Um did you even read the thread... Kenpachi was one of the most active players in the thread, but every single one of his posts seemed scummy, he didn't even defend himself once he was put into first place. There was also a very close race between him and Zeks where Zeks was also kind of active... we didn't go after an inactive at all, don't know where your information is coming from...\ Also if you look, there were like 6 - 7 vote switches near the end of the vote, as well numerous people were talking in the thread asking for kenpachi to defend himself... I'm lost as to where you came up with us voting an inactive and then going inactive at the end of the vote... Calling out BB’s slip up with regards to kenpachi, nothing special... BB just started playing as a replacement so probably didn’t have a long time to read the thread. This is why I didn’t FoS him, I simply corrected his mistake and told him to re-read the thread. + Show Spoiler +On December 15 2010 10:23 Insanious wrote:
Posting this from my blackberry so will be short, but I want everyone to keep in mind BB was a replacement. I don't think many people who get mafia will go and afk and leave a game when they get mafia. Just food for thought... Maybe BB is mafia and someone wanted town/ really didn't have time but just wanted to say BB is a replacement and from what I hear replacements are rarely red.
Litterally, me reading the thread while on the bus back from an exam, trying to narrow down the people that could be mafia. Wasn't a long post, but I just didn't think it was very often that replacements = mafia, so I thought it would be a better idea to look else where. People corrected me... it happens. + Show Spoiler + On December 16 2010 11:14 Insanious wrote:
So lets see... we're down our detectives, down 4 blues, and haven't got a mafia... Alright so now we have to find some mafia NOW or stand 0 chance... (since it's now 1 mewtwo, 6 mafia, and 11 Town... basically if we don't kill some mafia next round it is impossible for town to win).
I don't even how we can win... Heck, even mewtwo can't win unless we start killing mafia... (mewtwo can only win if there is 1 or less mafia at end).
So lets start the super analysis because we really need to find some reds... On December 16 2010 11:23 Insanious wrote:
EBWOP:
Alright apparently I counted... there are 22 players (1 mewtwo, 6 mafia, 15 town) bright side, we have 2 cycles before we're screwed... Just trying to get people back on track, there were a few people posting analysis of posting and such, but not very many. Wanted to put the game into perspective. We are chasing ghosts and are killing our selves... we need to start making good posts or risk dying in 4 days... (er 1 day, 1 night, 1 day, 1 night periods) + Show Spoiler + On December 16 2010 11:38 Insanious wrote:
Just went through the people who died posts and these are the people that they FOS'ed before they died:
Amber[LighT] the Mew was found dead. FOS Shockeyy
DarthThienAn the Alakazam was found dead.FOS Eiii, LSB, DCLXVI, dimsab, Oceanic, Brocket, Insanious (+3 people who died to make it a list of 9, not 6)
Pandain the Cloyster was found dead. FOS Seraph, DCLXVI
To me it looks like:
DCLXVI was FOS'ed by two of the players that recently died and then was killed.
Will go back through the rest of the people who were killed the night before and who they FOS'ed before they died... but might want to take a look at the people here (and yes I included everyone who didn't die, including my self) On December 16 2010 11:52 Insanious wrote:
deconduo
BrownBear
Eiii
dinmsab
DCLXVI
Ghrur
Node
KtheZ
tube
chaoser
Oceanic
These people are now completely lurking, no posts, just voting... meaning they are either mafia or just town that are helping the mafia... as there are 11 i'm going to say that most of them are just town that are helping the mafia win...
People that were active then stopped:
Eiii
Node
tube
Wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeee On December 16 2010 11:55 Insanious wrote:
Now I'm going to FoS:
Ghrur:
- Only votes
- Posted to start the thread
- I believe posted to defend himself once, then disappeared again
Eiii:
- Suspicious posting at start of thread
- Once people started to notice him, he just disappeared into the shadows and stopped posting
Will actually go through there posts once I have time, just doing laundry + studying but ya... maybe I can get in some nice analysis before bed. These three posts should of been close to one... but basically pointing out who the dead were FoS’ing, who was inactive, and who I thought was scum based on posts, or lack there of. Really I just wanted to get discussion going and guess that I have... + Show Spoiler +On December 16 2010 13:37 Insanious wrote:Show nested quote +On December 16 2010 13:33 LSB wrote:On December 16 2010 12:36 d3_crescentia wrote:
I took the fourth hit. 3 KP + 1 SK = 4 Amber[Light]=1 Brownbear=1 Pandain=2 d3_crescentia=1 1+1+2+1=5 Explain Pandain only needed 1 hit to die... he lost his other life to the electrode from tree.hugger during night 2... This means that Pandain only needed 1 hit to die, leaving one more hit open for d3 (if he's telling the truth) Just like all game, I have been answering questions so that everyone in the thread gets information. Information helps the town. + Show Spoiler +On December 17 2010 01:18 Insanious wrote:
Here's my long analysis done on DCLXVI, I said I would do one on him and Eiii. I just didn't have
Overall... this is what I see:
1) Inactive poster, that posted every 36 hours according to the post dates on this posts
2) Poster that when ever he posted something FoS'd someone random, then disapeared
3) Contributed nothing to the thread, just did token posts to seem like he was participating
4) Continuously uses the "I don't read the thread much" card, even though he seems to know what's going on
5) Doesn't even defend himself, but in the ends of posts likes to defend other people (mainly Gabe)
6) Got FoS'd by two players who died in the last night period
7) I show that he got FoS'd by two players who TR killed, and then I get FoS'd by him
Hmmm... doesn't seem like a productive member of the town... seems more like scum to me. Trying to get the town back on track, I retaliated against an analysis of me with an analysis of the person back. People need information, and doesn’t matter who it’s on. But I got called out, so here we go.... and here we are still, my 4th analysis post in a row. + Show Spoiler +On December 17 2010 02:14 Insanious wrote:
My review of DCLXVI’s analysis on me, and my response.
DCLXVI calls me out for single posts that match what he has been doing all game, and then calls me scum for it.
He goes “look at this post, it answers questions of noobs, he must be scum!” where he doesn’t even try to help people.
He goes “Look at this great analysis that I followed! It must be a ploy by the mafia to look like a good townie and then be a scum!” If I am posting good analysis (half of the posts DCLXVI quoted he said “good, nothing I can argue here, lets ignore it” that to me shows that most of my posts are better than average... better than anything DCLXVI has posted at all.)
He goes “Insanious is scum, he asked a question!” when later in the thread he asked a question as well... and hey, at least I didn’t ask my questions in PM, because the questions I got answered people needed the answers too and thanked me for asking them... scum... ya right.
He goes “Insanious FoS’s people and then disappears!” Yup, did that my last post, but not at all the rest of the time in the thread. I posted analysis with every single one of my votes, Tube and Kenpachi... and yes I realize I just bandwaggoned Zeks but so did everyone else. At least its more then DCLXVI’s “Hey guys FoS on _______ will do analysis later” 5 – 6 times...
To me, DCLXVI didn’t like it that I pointed out that people who FoS’d him died, and that we should lynch me for it. I wouldn’t be surprised if after my analysis of DCLXVI the mafia killed me, because they are protecting someone...
Just what I read in this analysis, if you guys need me to answer why I posted something that I did, I will gladly do it. I am town, and I have been fighting for the town... I am one of the last active posters left in the town, lets not lynch someone who’s doing good, rather than someone disruptive.
Again, me defending my self... and yes most of my posts are “You are worse then me...” but again that is a defence here. Why are you FoS’ing someone who has been more productive and more useful than yourself? Let alone someone who hasn’t exuded the aroma of scum unlike other people in the post. You pick someone who has infinitely better than you as town, and then call them scum, then wonder why the FoS is being turned around... This was my ideas when posting this and still is. + Show Spoiler +On December 17 2010 04:28 Insanious wrote:Show nested quote +On December 17 2010 03:37 DCLXVI wrote:
previous inactive poster, I have had quite a lot to say in the past 2 days or so. Then again I still managed to post a reasonable amount compared to the rest of the players. I'm not saying I was active very much then, but you seem to ignore everything that I did post with content. Here’s my rebuttal, with which posts you made that I made my analysis based on. Ex. For refuting what content he posts, i posted all of his posts and found one with content, and 17 with no content. You can look at the posts of his if you want just: click on profile, click on posts, and then look for the Pokemafia thread and count his posts out to the one you want to see. And here, I was trying to bring logic to illogical arguments. You attacked me personally, and I attacked the way you posted, your activity, and your content. You attacked my analysis, and you offered none of your own. This is where this rebuttal came from. I then wanted to put specific posts towards actions so people can see over-arching patterns like posting nothing, or defending one-self by attacking other instead of actually defending one-self. If you actually have any arguments you want to put forth as to how I am scum... I will gladly quote my own posts to prove you other wise. Please analyze someone else, because you have wasted the towns time analyzing someone who is obviously town.
These were the thoughts behind my posts, why I posted why I did, and why I think my posts are useful. If you disagree please bring the posts that you think less useful to the table so that I can defend my self properly.
If you attack me personally, I will attempt to logically defend myself, but in more cases than not I will simply ignore them as personal attacks cannot help the town, but can enrage people into committing to uninformed decisions.
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Whoops, forgot to post in the morning. Working on that now.
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On December 17 2010 03:06 LSB wrote:Cliffnotes on Analysis My ThoughtsShockeyy: (By LSB) 1) Lurks all the time 2) Does not take a position 3) Responds only when pressured 4) Profile matches with previous scum play. D3_crescentia (By Kavdragon) 1) Critiques stuff without alternatives Yeah... because everyone offered alternatives to my plan. </sarcasm>2) Spam Yeah... because only scum spam.</sarcasm>3) States obvious points and mini analysis Insanious (By DCLXVI) 1) Has a few good posts FOS DCLXVI2) Lack of activity Yeah because you're a shining example of what it is like to be activeShow nested quote +On December 16 2010 16:39 Brocket wrote:
Satisfactory analyses, well done gentlemen.
DCLXVI even bought attention to himself about the two voters against him being eliminated via analysing insanious. So it's a sign of honesty but the fact is still suss. I'm still not trusting Gabe because of kenpachi+ jcarl.
d3 hasn't been very consistent, that much is true. Why is it that townies seem to crumble when they are accused, you've got nothing to hide, don't make things worse by blurting out names and getting unnecessarily offended by accusation.
WTF?????? Is this sarcasm? DCLXVI (By Insanious) Interesting, do you want to look at his previous play to confirm? I could give you Segunko PMs if you'd think they'd be useful 1) Contributed nothing to the thread, just did token posts to seem like he was participating 2) Continuously uses the "I don't read the thread much" card, even though he seems to know what's going on 3) Got FoS'd by two players who died in the last night period
I think the last point is pretty huge. When I've been mafia I always try to take out the people that suspect me the most or are most vocal about it.
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On December 17 2010 03:08 LSB wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2010 10:30 LSB wrote:All right. If Zeks flips green. Take note of this. If he's red, I will eat my words. The issue today that I don't want to lynch Zeks. We're falling with the same trap with lynching Kenpachi. They play like this all the time. Lynching zeks would just be like doing a random pick. However, mafia always has a hand in RNG. I pushed ShoCkeyy because I agreed with D3 that we need to make the lurkers more visible. Amber[Light]'s response was not only OMGUS. He was well justified. Lurker pops up. Randomly votes Amber[Light], tries to hide. So, rather than voting Gabriel, I decided that ShoCkeyy is the better lynch. And after a few observations heres a few things I found Firstly: ShoCkeyy just flat out lurked: He had one post day one that did nothing but explain that "his vote really wasn't a vote" + Show Spoiler [First post] +On December 12 2010 05:51 ShoCkeyy wrote:Show nested quote +On December 12 2010 04:35 tree.hugger wrote:On December 11 2010 17:41 tree.hugger wrote:My hunch is that he's not going to be able to commit fully to anything, no matter how much we prod.
On December 12 2010 02:30 Kenpachi wrote:
asdf. even when i post, i get pointed scum On December 12 2010 02:35 Kenpachi wrote:
okay so yea my posts were bad but what can i say? i couldnt offer anything there and there. So i voted Gabriel for blatant bandwagon. Then he reacts and i defend. On December 12 2010 02:27 Kenpachi wrote:
##vote tree.hugger On December 12 2010 04:10 Kenpachi wrote:On December 12 2010 03:39 DCLXVI wrote:
Thank you insanious and tree.hugger, I hope to see more people post like that. I don't understand why people are letting Kenpachi off the hook for bad posting. So what if he has a history of being less than stellar for the town. We cannot allow him to spam and distract the town because even if he isn't mafia, this helps the mafia. He is playing in a way that benefits the mafia, so even if he isn't (though I think he is), he is dangerous for the town. I really don't like the defense used by darth and meepak of "oh, well this is just how he normally plays". Townies don't intentionally hurt the town by doing what kenpachi is doing.
I'll hopefully be back in a bit before the vote ends, but I feel safe in putting my vote on Kenpachi. Every vote on him is a vote to clean up the town. youre dumb. what if i happened to be DT or Medic? On December 12 2010 04:13 Kenpachi wrote:On December 12 2010 04:12 jcarlsoniv wrote:On December 12 2010 04:10 Kenpachi wrote:On December 12 2010 03:39 DCLXVI wrote:
Thank you insanious and tree.hugger, I hope to see more people post like that. I don't understand why people are letting Kenpachi off the hook for bad posting. So what if he has a history of being less than stellar for the town. We cannot allow him to spam and distract the town because even if he isn't mafia, this helps the mafia. He is playing in a way that benefits the mafia, so even if he isn't (though I think he is), he is dangerous for the town. I really don't like the defense used by darth and meepak of "oh, well this is just how he normally plays". Townies don't intentionally hurt the town by doing what kenpachi is doing.
I'll hopefully be back in a bit before the vote ends, but I feel safe in putting my vote on Kenpachi. Every vote on him is a vote to clean up the town. youre dumb. what if i happened to be DT or Medic? Are you claiming DT or medic? no i am not Word. I suppose we'll get treated to angry defending eventually, as he's in the lead right now, but hey, that might be too committed. Alright, I feel like kenpachi is getting way to agressive here. All his post have been aggressive and not helpful in anyway. + Show Spoiler +A) 4 hours does not judge that. what if i went on TL tomorrow for the first time in the past 3 days? B) Anyone who posts would want to look active.. Why would they post if they want to look inactive? C) Why are you assuming i read the rules? how do you know i didnt just assume the KP? D) It doesnt. shh E) ?? its enlightenment F) I dont agree with you voting for Infundibulum. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=174831¤tpage=14#270When he starts saying, that why do people assume that he reads the rules, makes me question him. Everyone reads the rules and we know this because that's part of the game. If he's saying he doesn't that just seems phishy to me imo. I also feel like, he posted the DT or Medic theory in order to try and get some people off of his case cause he can possibly be a TR member. I've seen this happen plenty of times where they pull out the "I might be a DT or Medic" and they end up not being it. My two cents, maybe I am wrong, but this is what I've been able to read off of. Very problemic analysis. Firstly, it doesn’t take an actual position. All it’s saying is “everyone else seems to be voting kenpachi so I’ll join in”. Lets take a look at his points 1) Kenpachi doesn't read the rules. Therefore he is scum. 2) Kenpachi soft claimed blue. Therefore he is scum There are two big problems. 1) Not reading the rules doesn't mean you are scum. It just means that you didn’t read the rules. 2) Kenpachi did not soft claim blue. On December 15 2010 04:34 ShoCkeyy wrote:
Quoted text
Well my reasoning on voting for Gabriel was because in the first round he dodged my vote by the way kenpachi was acting, but then seeing jcarl go now and both of them being Gabriels prime targets in the beginning kinda made me switch over to them. Either way, I find it funny that you only target a quite few of us when actually there is A LOT of people missing that are not posting at all. To name some more, Amber[Light], Tube?... Why don't you target them as well? I don't understand why would you just target a select few of us instead of them and then JUST target me right after wards. I've been busy and reading up on what I could and making my voice count when needed and voting when I needed to.
Interesting defense. Immediately he starts attacking the person who pointed out that he wasn't doing anything. And these aren't actually good attacks. Take note that Amber[Light] and Tube were pretty active day 1. Secondly I could and making my voice count when needed Is just lol ShoCkeyy has been incredibly self centered. He does nothing but protect himself and justify However. every single one of his posts today were either defending himself, or attacking the people questioning him. Instead of not taking a position. ShoCkey starts going all out, accusing everyone. Doing anything he can to try to not become lynched. This is completely different from the ShoCkeyy we know. This could be an overdefensive townie. But far more likely it is a mafia trying not to attract attention day 1. Thirdly: ShoCkeyy had made no mention of Zeks.This is the most important subject today, and he still hasn't talked about Zeks? ShoCkeyy is obviously cutting ties because he knows that Zeks is green. + Show Spoiler +If Zeks is green, lynch ShoCkeyy Show nested quote +On December 15 2010 11:46 LSB wrote:ShoCkey Previous Game Analysis Caller's Red Army Mafyia: Role: Medic Posted 99% one liners. Got angry and warned for flaming. Mafia XVI: Role: Townie: Takes positions, especially on Xelin. Defends himself mostly civily. Mostly one-liners. + Show Spoiler +On January 21 2010 08:41 ShoCkeyy wrote:Show nested quote +On January 21 2010 08:34 QuickStriker wrote:On January 21 2010 08:21 ShoCkeyy wrote:On January 21 2010 08:17 QuickStriker wrote:On January 21 2010 08:14 ShoCkeyy wrote:
O_o we haven't started yet right? Uhh... yes we did??? And like no one is around to discuss and talk about the game in contrast to the other mafia game where it's way more active.... =/ Well I posted in the voting thread already since I couldn't find it till now ._. Hmm... well welcome!!! Glad to have at least one more active member of our little town.... it seems the mafias have put some poison gas or some sort of gas which is why everyone is silent or sleeping right now.... o.O Well QuickStriker, I will support you in this. I don't think you're the Mafia. Show nested quote +On January 20 2010 17:01 XeliN wrote:On January 20 2010 12:52 no_re wrote:Well hi everyone, my first mafia game, not entirely sure how it works so bare with me if Im doing it wrong, however relating to the "clues" posted everyday here is what I got from the above entry. My first thought when dissecting the post was this rather obvious quote: With a quick attack, the Sheriff Ace collapsed to the ground. A quick attack? Well with a player named QuickStriker in the game this looks like a kind of obvious clue. Also he was the first to respond to the first Sheriff Candidacy anouncement of Fulgrim, drawing attention to himself being "amused" by Fulgrim's "I'm not a mafia" comment. This intruiged me. I think that analysis overall was extremely good, from reading up on some earlier Mafia games it seems that the host often likes the come up with elaborate or entertaining deaths. This in itself makes the " With a quick attack " stand out far more in my eyes, and somewhat exonerates the other as possibly just being a whimsical choice by the host. In all honesty this by itself is enough to make me fairly suspicious and Quickstriker I am still more suspicious when I see some of what you have typed. In particular your reaction to no_re's non-serious accusation where you are essentially saying we must "hold off any action untill the DT comes forward and leads us through the valley of death and into the promised land" - I paraphrased, This however, as far as I can tell is an exceptionally bad strategy, the point of electing a mayor or sherrif is someone who seems active, discerning and importantly decisive, and your suggestion of sit and wait reeks to me on manipulation at an early stage. p.s. am i doin it rite? I think Xelin is the Mafia. He's already accusing you of being mafia even though the game hasn't started. Not only that, he's trying to submit himself as the Mayor, trying to find his way around from being lynched off. He knows that if he is able to be the mayor, then we're screwed. On January 21 2010 09:38 ShoCkeyy wrote:
Hmm, I don't like this whole vote for me thing. Seems fishy, and especially the way he words it. He tries to win you over, so he can make sure he wins. I like his style no lie. But I won't be able to vote for him. Laaan, sorry, but my vote remains the same.
All you out of towners better stay in ya'll wreckin area. We don't like you hippie folks round hea. On January 22 2010 00:30 ShoCkeyy wrote:
Ok, so I see some of you think I should be lynched. Well for one, I'm typing off my phone, so bare with me. Second, I voted for quikstriker, cause he seems like the right canidate for the mayor position out of everyone else here who is trying to be mayor. I rather choose some one who didn't impose themselves into trying to be mayor. Brings me to my reason as to why I would want xelin lynched.
Xelin saw that quikstriker was being the most helpful in this thread. He didn't like that, so he quickly picks quikstriker to be lynched. Then soon after post that he wants to be mayor, the reason as to why I don't want to vote for some one that says "I'm running for mayor." They seem more fake than anybody else here. Now I can tell you, I vote for xelin to be lynched 75% of the way.
The other 25% go to those who are quietly coming in that have watched us argue about who to lynch first. I feel like they watched us bicker to see and now that we have some what of an idea who we're going to lynch first. Now the mafia come in to back them up so we an lynch a townie. Which brings me to my other conclusion. Decafchicken I'm watching you. And one more that Shockeyy left out TL Mafia XVIII: Role: Mafia: Shockey was under heavy clue suspicion. He responded mostly civilly. However, most noticeably Shockey has essentially only one post that isn't either spam or defending himself (included below). Shockey shys away from taking any positions, besides defending himself. + Show Spoiler +On February 28 2010 07:30 ShoCkeyy wrote:
I think it's pretty clear right now that the town should not be voting to kill Scamp. He is right in that at best all L has is some shaky clue analysis. In fact, most of L's clue analysis is directed at other players (Chez, johnny, me) and not at Scamp, go read his posts if you don't believe me.
Something I've noticed is that Scamp has actually taken the time to legitimately defend himself. I remember when we were going to lynch Mystlord, he hardly said a thing and most of what he said only incriminated him more. Right now the only thing incriminating Scamp is L. Also when QS was going to be lynched he came up with the stupid modkill plan that had no way working. Scamp hasn't tried to pull anything of that caliber. It seems to me he's arguing as a townsperson.
To the town, L has already convinced you to lynch our Mayor/medic. What's going to happen when Scamp turns up innocent? We'll be in a bigger mindfuck than we are right now. tree.hugger is clearly the safer vote right now. It's no doubt that if Scamp does not get lynched, L will continue to incriminate him. If Scamp is indeed mafia, he's going to slip up somewhere. Do you agree? Or any objections?
I think this kind of reasoning, LSB, that you're using against Shockeyy is very similar to the previous "analyses"posted that led to our lynches of zeks and kenpachi.
I feel that your specific post dictated to FOSing Shockeyy if zeks flipped green was quite well made, considering that you would not be sure if zeks was actually green.
So I'd like to bring town's attention to the voting trends of the first day.
Now that we know both kenpachi and zeks were green, we can predict the voting pattern of the mafia on the first day.
It makes sense for the mafia to not switch votes at the last second, mainly because they know both lynch candidates were town, and that switching votes would put the FoS on them.
I personally think that the mafia manipulated the voting so that there would be a close tie between the two candidates, thus FoSing people who change the vote. Basically, I think the most mafia are within the 3rd to 7th votes on the lynchees day one. (A better method would be to look at the vote timestamps)
The reason I brought this up is because this evidence may be used in the pursuit of future mafia candidates. Correct me if you see and logical fallacy in this.
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The key difference is the post history. Kenpachi and Zeks were consitant. Just a small 5 minute foray into their post history would allow you to see this result.
However, as town Shockeyy at least makes the effort to take positions and do things other than viciously defend himself. Shockeyy's mafia play fits his current play now.
Now that we know both kenpachi and zeks were green, we can predict the voting pattern of the mafia on the first day.
It makes sense for the mafia to not switch votes at the last second, mainly because they know both lynch candidates were town, and that switching votes would put the FoS on them.
I personally think that the mafia manipulated the voting so that there would be a close tie between the two candidates, thus FoSing people who change the vote. Basically, I think the most mafia are within the 3rd to 7th votes on the lynchees day one. (A better method would be to look at the vote timestamps)
The reason I brought this up is because this evidence may be
DCLXVI, Eiii were the only ones who voted both zeks and Kenpachi. However this isn't a big issue since Day 2, it was pretty clear that all the sheep were voting for zeks. We probably cannot receive any meaningful voting analysis day 2
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On December 17 2010 08:20 LSB wrote:The key difference is the post history. Kenpachi and Zeks were consitant. Just a small 5 minute foray into their post history would allow you to see this result. However, as town Shockeyy at least makes the effort to take positions and do things other than viciously defend himself. Shockeyy's mafia play fits his current play now. Show nested quote +Now that we know both kenpachi and zeks were green, we can predict the voting pattern of the mafia on the first day.
It makes sense for the mafia to not switch votes at the last second, mainly because they know both lynch candidates were town, and that switching votes would put the FoS on them.
I personally think that the mafia manipulated the voting so that there would be a close tie between the two candidates, thus FoSing people who change the vote. Basically, I think the most mafia are within the 3rd to 7th votes on the lynchees day one. (A better method would be to look at the vote timestamps)
The reason I brought this up is because this evidence may be DCLXVI, Eiii were the only ones who voted both zeks and Kenpachi. However this isn't a big issue since Day 2, it was pretty clear that all the sheep were voting for zeks. We probably cannot receive any meaningful voting analysis day 2
I'm not qualified to comment on shockeyy's mafia play, since I have not played with him before, so I'll concede that to you.
I agree day 2 voting is meaningless in terms of analysis, but I feel day 1 will prove to be quite fruitful for town.
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On December 17 2010 08:44 KtheZ wrote:Show nested quote +On December 17 2010 08:20 LSB wrote:The key difference is the post history. Kenpachi and Zeks were consitant. Just a small 5 minute foray into their post history would allow you to see this result. However, as town Shockeyy at least makes the effort to take positions and do things other than viciously defend himself. Shockeyy's mafia play fits his current play now. Now that we know both kenpachi and zeks were green, we can predict the voting pattern of the mafia on the first day.
It makes sense for the mafia to not switch votes at the last second, mainly because they know both lynch candidates were town, and that switching votes would put the FoS on them.
I personally think that the mafia manipulated the voting so that there would be a close tie between the two candidates, thus FoSing people who change the vote. Basically, I think the most mafia are within the 3rd to 7th votes on the lynchees day one. (A better method would be to look at the vote timestamps)
The reason I brought this up is because this evidence may be DCLXVI, Eiii were the only ones who voted both zeks and Kenpachi. However this isn't a big issue since Day 2, it was pretty clear that all the sheep were voting for zeks. We probably cannot receive any meaningful voting analysis day 2 I'm not qualified to comment on shockeyy's mafia play, since I have not played with him before, so I'll concede that to you. I agree day 2 voting is meaningless in terms of analysis, but I feel day 1 will prove to be quite fruitful for town.
He's also never played with me and LSB, what are you doing right now? Defending yourself from all the people trying to call you suspicion and by trying to re-direct to me. All you've done is analyze me after I called you out. THAT'S ALL YOU'VE Done.
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An analysis of Infundibulum:
On December 10 2010 10:51 Infundibulum wrote:Show nested quote +On December 10 2010 10:47 LSB wrote:On December 10 2010 10:35 Hesmyrr wrote:On December 10 2010 10:25 d3_crescentia wrote:On December 10 2010 10:23 Hesmyrr wrote:
Moreover D1 lynches are always crapshoot. It is good and fine to publicly discuss and prod one's suspects, but at least waiting until D2 so one have more actual data to support the case on him/her seems just better. This is a large setup so we cannot just afford to let all the lurkers pass-by. They're always crapshoot because we have players that go about finding scum in a crappy way. I suggest that everyone else vote for you as well. Chances of finding scum D2 > Chances of finding scum D1 always just purely on the basis that amount of information available will increase as the game progresses. Although lynching inactives is always a start, we shouldn't discount the power of day one analysis I've seen it many times actually. Kenpachi/Coagulation (Almost, but we switched)- Deconduo's Don't lose your village game Me/Pyrr- TLMMM 2 Masq- Haunted Mafia Bill Murray (Almost, but Ace made us switch x.x)- Penalty Mafia And many others... I don't like lynching inactives Day 1 because we run the risk of lynching someone that is going to be modkilled. Unless I am mistaken, DocH is running a rather strict modkill policy: miss a vote = modkill. So if we lynch someone that wasn't going to vote anyway, it's rather redundant. I am a man that strives for efficiency.
I think this is his first post; someone correct me if I'm wrong. This is a solid line of rational thought; don't kill anyone that's going to die (kind of obvious, but meh).
On December 10 2010 11:03 Infundibulum wrote:Show nested quote +On December 10 2010 10:55 jcarlsoniv wrote:On December 10 2010 10:07 LSB wrote:
##Vote:Infundibulum Why? I already have 3 votes. Do I smell or something?
First comment on the bandwagon on him. Nothing too wrong here; he's pretty calm about it. (Yes, he does.)
On December 10 2010 11:13 Infundibulum wrote:Show nested quote +On December 10 2010 11:06 LSB wrote:On December 10 2010 10:55 jcarlsoniv wrote:On December 10 2010 10:07 LSB wrote:
##Vote:Infundibulum Why? Some of us (me) carry friendly grudges (my first mafia game) ^^ Oh haha, I forgot about that. If anything that should be like a compliment of sorts. Or something.
Off-topic (spam, one might say) but it's not very significant anyway. Moving on...
On December 10 2010 11:22 Infundibulum wrote:Show nested quote +On December 10 2010 11:11 LSB wrote:
Oh.
By Inactive, I mean someone who is lurking, maybe making one token post in the thread that isn't anything new and doesn't attempt to contribute anything at all, but still votes every day.
These are the uninterested townies, the lurkers, and the people studying for finals. Oh i see, we were kinda using different contextual definitions. Yeah by inactive i was thinking of the people that just never show up, not the 1 post 1 vote lurkers. In my experience most modkills happen during Day 1 or Day 2, a period during which it is difficult to distinguish true inactives from lurkers since they both exhibit similar behavior (i.e. very little). Lynching an 'inactive' Day 1 is always a nice neutral ground, but I feel that many people offer it as an excuse since they don't know what else to do (the same reason RNG always comes up, which is IMO worse than lynching inactives).
A further explanation of the points made above. Again, this isn't particularly scummy and is beneficial to the town to know.
On December 10 2010 11:28 Infundibulum wrote:Show nested quote +On December 10 2010 11:25 Gabriel wrote:On December 10 2010 11:20 d3_crescentia wrote:On December 10 2010 11:12 Gabriel wrote:On December 10 2010 11:04 d3_crescentia wrote:On December 10 2010 10:58 Gabriel wrote:On December 10 2010 10:46 d3_crescentia wrote:On December 10 2010 10:42 LSB wrote:On December 10 2010 10:34 jcarlsoniv wrote:On December 10 2010 10:31 LSB wrote:
[quote]
Wait. What?
Lynch is less important than a DT check? I would rather waste a Day 1 lynch than a Day 1 DT I feel. Day 1 lynches are tough. Definitely not impossible, but tough when everything is just starting out. Using a DT on someone who isn't going to even bother contributing wouldn't be worth it. Using DT checks on active members is definitely more important. I'm a bit confused now though...You want to DT check inactives AND lynch inactives? That just seems like a waste of resources. Lets say there are three people that are lurking. That's not a far fetched number, mafia love to lurk. Sure we lynch one of them during day one, but what about the other ones? Not all the DTs have to check of course. But maybe setting something such as a probability system would be enough to flush out the mafia. Roll a 1 check inactive A. Roll a 2 check inactive B. Roll a 3 check whoever you want. That plan will need to be modified, if not scrapped once we get our D1 vote list out. I rather check the active player and lynch the inactive player. The active player right now is more likely to be +info in the future anyways, while the inactive is just... well... inactive. By the way one of the worst game aproachs is the "im noob just reading and getting used to play". If you are town you rather post something small but with actual meaning. I still have a decent target day 1 unless he posts a few more than oneliners. Inactives is also my treasure box. I have no idea what that last line means. Why don't you tell us/vote for who your "decent target"? +info always benefits town. I have a half decent target in the "im new guys" list. However right now i really want to flip Infundibulum because A) He came out of nowhere to dismiss lynching inactives (and that is really nonsense for a player that has played a lot of games) B) I cant believe jcarsoniv just posted a single Why? to LSB vote. With a game of 31 people and a little more than half the people having posted recently it's just dumb to blindvote someone for "just showing up." What do you read into the line about efficiency that I don't? Is it really efficient at this point lynch an active player over the inactive that is going to die anyways?? Really? I mean mafia is not going to die because he doesnt vote, blues are not going to die because they dont vote. Meh i want to flip infundibulum badly. It is stupid to lynch someone that is going to be modkilled because that is like not lynching anybody at all. That is what my first post was trying to say.
Conflict with Gabriel. Gabriel takes an aggressive stance; Infundibulum with a cool defense. It actually seems somewhat suspicious of an attack for Gabriel now that I reread it.
On December 10 2010 11:42 Infundibulum wrote:Show nested quote +On December 10 2010 11:35 Gabriel wrote:On December 10 2010 11:28 Infundibulum wrote:On December 10 2010 11:25 Gabriel wrote:On December 10 2010 11:20 d3_crescentia wrote:On December 10 2010 11:12 Gabriel wrote:On December 10 2010 11:04 d3_crescentia wrote:On December 10 2010 10:58 Gabriel wrote:On December 10 2010 10:46 d3_crescentia wrote:On December 10 2010 10:42 LSB wrote:
[quote]
Lets say there are three people that are lurking. That's not a far fetched number, mafia love to lurk. Sure we lynch one of them during day one, but what about the other ones?
Not all the DTs have to check of course. But maybe setting something such as a probability system would be enough to flush out the mafia. Roll a 1 check inactive A. Roll a 2 check inactive B. Roll a 3 check whoever you want. That plan will need to be modified, if not scrapped once we get our D1 vote list out. I rather check the active player and lynch the inactive player. The active player right now is more likely to be +info in the future anyways, while the inactive is just... well... inactive. By the way one of the worst game aproachs is the "im noob just reading and getting used to play". If you are town you rather post something small but with actual meaning. I still have a decent target day 1 unless he posts a few more than oneliners. Inactives is also my treasure box. I have no idea what that last line means. Why don't you tell us/vote for who your "decent target"? +info always benefits town. I have a half decent target in the "im new guys" list. However right now i really want to flip Infundibulum because A) He came out of nowhere to dismiss lynching inactives (and that is really nonsense for a player that has played a lot of games) B) I cant believe jcarsoniv just posted a single Why? to LSB vote. With a game of 31 people and a little more than half the people having posted recently it's just dumb to blindvote someone for "just showing up." What do you read into the line about efficiency that I don't? Is it really efficient at this point lynch an active player over the inactive that is going to die anyways?? Really? I mean mafia is not going to die because he doesnt vote, blues are not going to die because they dont vote. Meh i want to flip infundibulum badly. It is stupid to lynch someone that is going to be modkilled because that is like not lynching anybody at all. That is what my first post was trying to say. Well now that you have started posting it is not "lynching anybody" to lynch you. And the big fallacy there is that we just dont know who is going to be modkilled because it is enough for a guy to vote or even abstain at the last minute. So your argument is: we shouldnt vote inactives because they are going to be modkilled, except that the ones that we want to get sniped are those that are actually not modkilled (whatever the definition of inactive you may have). Im still voting Infundibulum. Kenpachi is still missing? There is no fallacy. It is hard to distinguish active lurkers from genuinely inactive players during Day 1 to Day 2. In the interest of not running the risk wasting a town lynch I am of the opinion that we can start to eliminate active lurkers around Day 3 or probably even 2 if things go well. If you disagree with me that is fine, but I'm not sure how your logic is leading you to think that I'm red.
Clarification, and I think this seals the deal as far as discussion on this subject goes.
This is potentially helpful for the town, but having players read mafiascum will change mafia playstyles at the very least.
On December 10 2010 13:30 Infundibulum wrote:Show nested quote +On December 10 2010 13:09 Hesmyrr wrote:On December 10 2010 12:52 Infundibulum wrote:
Because the cop wants to not be found by the mafia so he should know how people look for him
And because the medic wants to find the cop so he can protect him. ...What? (More specifically, encouraging Cop to hide his cop-tells while encouraging Medic to protect the people who are showing cop-tells.) i know it's contradictory. but it is true that medics want to protect dts and mafia want to kill dts. i think the real point is that it does not at all hurt town to read that article, which seemed to me was what LSB was implying.
On December 10 2010 13:35 Infundibulum wrote:
Rather though, the medic is more focused on finding the cop when it's a small game setup with 1 of each role.
In a larger game like this medics are probably better off focusing on protecting people that are actively protown and the detective is better off not being found out. Hence me posting the ways that people tend to find the detective, so he can catch himself from falling into any common tells.
Okay. It doesn't hurt the townies as individuals to be more well-versed in what could be done. This is pretty pro-town thus far.
On December 11 2010 04:33 Infundibulum wrote:Show nested quote +On December 11 2010 04:28 LSB wrote:
The problem isn't that his post came early. 5 hours is a lot of time and enough to get a feel for how people act I disagree with this, especially considering the wide range of time zones people are in on TL. Also a solid point.
On December 11 2010 22:46 Infundibulum wrote:
Hey, i have to work a 12 hour shift today so more than likely i won't be around for the end of the day.
i think i'm going to put my vote on zeks. this isn't a retaliatory vote, but mostly i don't want to see the votes spread out around like 5 targets, but rather 2-3 because that makes voting analysis much easier later on.
as for zeks' play, let me just say that he is almost always like this no matter what color he is. the short posts and lack of activity make him harder to read whether he is town or mafia and i've seen a few games where he actively lurks (both green and red) and tends to get away with it. i don't know how much i think he is red but i think him or kenpachi are both fine choices (at least right now, so much changes in 12 hours that everything is gonna be different more than likely because they will come and make their cases etc).
that is all the time i really have to post. just try not to get spread out on several targets because this lets the mafia tip the vote to a town player. An adequate post for the context it was given. In hindsight, neither Kenpachi nor Zeks were mafia.
On December 11 2010 04:50 Infundibulum wrote:Show nested quote +On December 11 2010 04:15 Hesmyrr wrote:
There is one possible reason why I am willing to give Gabriel null-read for now, but I am going to wait for him to come and explain himself first to see if his argument agrees with mine. Am i the only one that thinks this is a rather pointless post?
I agreed with this.
On December 13 2010 07:55 Infundibulum wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2010 05:33 DarthThienAn wrote:Brocketplaying the newbie card quite a bit, which I don't like. But On December 10 2010 23:35 Brocket wrote:
Good points raised by amber. I think it can go either way as well. If Gabe gave solid arguments that were easy to follow then I would honestly have not voted for him. It's like a vote for reason. As it stands I won't be changing my vote for this day phase but I admit it was too hasty.
I think it should be emphasised that any one of us voting for gabe could be mafia too (or people voting off infund for that matter) and with 31 players it won't be that hard to get gabe out of the hot water if we want to keep him. On December 11 2010 22:51 Brocket wrote:
##unvote gabriel
##vote kenpachi herpdederp.. On December 11 2010 14:19 Brocket wrote:
I think whatever Gabe did so far pales in comparison to the outbursts we're getting recently. I'm reconsidering my vote. This is the kind of useless post that you should look out for. What does it say? What does it do for the town? Absolutely nothing, except give Brocket an easy way out. Can easily be interpreted as a "I might need to switch my vote later on to save my scumbuddy." On December 11 2010 14:58 Brocket wrote:
If you want to pick mafia. I can guarantee you one of us picking gabe is a mafia. Just for future reference in case I somehow die overnight somehow. I'm not paranoid or nothing. What does this post even mean? How do you know someone picking him is mafia? Other than the fact that you're mafia and you noticed that one of you is voting for Gabriel? On December 11 2010 16:46 Brocket wrote:
I'm taking what gabe said with a grain of salt. But I should do the same for everybody else.
Sounds pretty rough but if gabe turns out to be a villager then people have a lot of explaining to do.
Yet another wishy-washy, non-committal post. Especially the bolded part. On December 11 2010 22:48 Brocket wrote:
If you guys are gunning for kenpachi, then what about jcarlsoniv? It seems like they're a couple.
Also the arguments for kenpachi/zeks are compelling. I think gabe is pretty glad that others are voting for these two so I have to ignore what gabe says honestly, for now.
I'm also more curious about whether kenpachi is a mafia than gabriel is. Because kenpachi seems to be more likely mafia than gabriel at this point (im putting gabe down as a quasi helpful townie for now) I will change my vote to kenpachi.
Please excuse my laziness to format the capitals/potential grammar mistakes. I came back from a party just now but my will to change vote is strong. Cool, so you've told us that Kenpachi more likely mafia than Gabriel. What about zeks? You read the analysis. You "took it with a grain of salt." On December 12 2010 14:22 Brocket wrote:
= /. Massive sigh. So kenpachi was voted out because:
He was a pikachu who acted like mafia. Why would you even do that? Gah. The mafia know who's on their team right? You're the reason why we can't have nice things Kenpachi.
He was a pikachu who made out to be mafia by mafia who knew he's always acted suss consistently in every game. I am so disappoint. "Massive sigh." Good acting How do you know it was the mafia that framed Kenpachi? Why are you disappoint? A townie died. On December 12 2010 18:19 Brocket wrote:
I regret changing my vote to kenpachi. As a direct result we have to keep gabe for another night/day's worth of discussion. God help us all.
Mafia please kill him or me. Kthx. tbh, I don't see what all the rage is about Gabriel's posting. It's somewhat hard to understand sometimes but it's not as terrible/lacking as some others in the thread, and he's made several good points during the first day. On December 13 2010 01:10 Brocket wrote:
Zeks and kenpachi, but kenpachi and jcarl seemed to back eachother up and focus attention on gabriel. In fact I thought if kenpachi turned out to be mafia, then jcarl would also be mafia so it was a sort of 2 for 1. People did put good arguments for zeks but because I didn't notice him much I didn't think about him, which I suppose makes the arguments against him stronger.
Feel free to look at what I've said. I've mostly just been looking at what people have been saying and then briefly looked at 'analyses' of what people said if you want to save yourself some time. Start contributing your own thoughts to the thread. kthxbye. -- I don't feel like explaining anymore~ the names on the list are just people who I've noticed after day 1. Let's watch who the mafia hit because it's always in their best interest to snipe people who are hot on their tails. Also in their best interest to kill off the active members, more so than blues I'd say. For example, I'd rather target a townie Qatol than a Again, these are just suspicious people. Looking back at that voting list, I think I'd throw deconduo onto my list as well. Haven't looked at his posts thoroughly, but I feel like he just came in, voted, and left. I actually think Brocket might be a smurf and he's playing the newbie card to cover that up. Some of the questions are downright silly ("the mafia know who's on their team, right?") I think both him and DTA have pointed brocket in the past. Brocket has since said he's not a smurf, but it might be a good idea to reconsider brocket.
On December 14 2010 14:52 Infundibulum wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2010 10:05 Node wrote:On December 14 2010 09:41 Hesmyrr wrote:
Hey guys, so I don't know what's going on, but a voltorb that was on me apparently exploded at 12/13/10 15:05 (because mod fails). Fortunately my unwitting wit and shell has saved me, but no longer I boast that powerful shell that guaranteed my survival.
So...
I am Cloyster, voltorb exploded on me and my extra night live was removed because tree.hugger is FAILURE That's an interesting claim. I'm inclined to believe it -- Hesmyrr has been fairly active, has been stating clear positions on who should be lynched, and in general seems like a town-aligned player willing to put himself out there to risk hits (veteran-style play). In fact, after re-reading his posts I'm not entirely sure where the suspicions of Hesmyrr being scum have come from, and I'll be taking a closer look at those who were putting a lot of pressure on him. I think he's telling the truth, but i dunno why Hesmyrr had to tell us his role. I mean all that does is give the mafia extra information - they know now that 1 vet is down a life and whoever replaces Hesmyrr can be hit and killed (barring medic of course). All he had to say was "I took the bomb hit," and it tells us what we need to know. I'm really puzzled by the roleclaim part of it. And lo and behold, this happened. I would like to point out that it was unclear as to whether or not medics could save people who got bombed.
On December 15 2010 06:08 Infundibulum wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2010 04:01 dinmsab wrote:
My vote is on Gabriel, for now. I'm not exactly convinced he's scummy but our discussions so far are pretty unconvincing and in the middle of this shitstorm is Gabriel.
Imo, I think people should start to discuss on other things rather than random bs finger pointing. People could give advice to blues on what to do etc etc, that would be much more helpful than what we're currently doing.
.. and no, i'm not a blue asking for advice. If mafia wants to kill me off then do so, I don't mind taking one for the team. I don't understand why you would vote for someone you don't think is Scummy. This is also the same thing you did day 1. "Someone should really make a list of inactives" "Someone should really start giving advice to blues" If you want to do it, why not you? Some blue advice: Medics: based on day 1, it looks like mafia could be targeting active townies who are contributing to discussion. Keep this in mind for your protections. Think like "if i was a mafia, who would i hit?" that is who you protect. Detectives: people I would check if i was a detective zeks Gabriel infundibulum amber[light] ghrur With 4 hours left in the day, I think it's more important to come up with a lynch candidate. People I think are actively lurking ghrur seraph Oceanic With that said let me read the thread because I haven't read all the pages yet.
Provides a good list for checking. I agree(d) with the check list before half the people on it died. Although - if you apply a little WIFOM here it could be that the list he posted would entice a TR hit as well, thus making the DT checks useless.
On December 15 2010 06:49 Infundibulum wrote:My thoughts on each candidate so far: Shockeyy: voted kenpachi, but so did half the town and i can't blame any of them for doing that. LSB and amber say he is obvious scum, but they haven't said why. His defense is "why am i picked out when there are so many others?" is shitty, so Shockeyy maybe you should step up so you don't have to be picked out. Personally, i think he might be a lurking blue that was trying to avoid the spotlight and now got dragged into it. The fact that he thought kenpachi's soft blue claim was fake adds some weight to this possibility, imo. Gabriel: The man at the center of attention. He is a polarizing figure so it's understandable that he attracts votes. But look what happened today: almost immediately, people like Brocket and zeks start calling for his head. I think this is because Gabriel is an easy target: he kinda fucked up Day 1, and it's easy to push a lynch on him because of that. Look at how his behavior changed from Day 1 to Day 2, he is now much less confrontational and less active. it's hard to say if this is because he's scum trying to cover his tracks, or town who realized he went too far and tried to ease up a little. I think he is an easy choice to pick at so there are going to be both townies and mafia pushing for his lynch. If Gabriel is red, then it's a good move by them to bus him since he is so suspicious to many people. If he's town, then they can get away with it by saying "well he was playing really bad." What seals it for me is this post by Brocket, specifically the bold part" Show nested quote +On December 15 2010 05:57 Brocket wrote:
Out from left field. I didn't see GGQ coming. I agree zeks would have been voted out day 1 because of kenpachi. Honestly if Gabriel wasn't here I'd vote him too. But I've already said kenpachi and jcarl lynched and dead as townies and gabriel's strong motive to FoS zeks to survive confound the zeks-is-scum argument. I want to see gabriel's identity, since he's failed to convince me from day 1 and the only recourse is by lynch.
I am set on voting gabriel because I think he's mafia. I appreciate the people so far who voted with me for day 2 because that means they've read my posts and thought 'hey that Brocket dude is pretty handsome and makes a lot of sense'.
If for some outlandish reason I am delirious and Gabe turns out to be townie, I invite suspicion upon myself and throw myself onto the sword. I will vote myself day 3 because I would know that nothing I said was productive at all and I would feel guilty that I got Gabe the 'helpful' townie lynched. But until that happens, it's vote 1 gabe. Vote him dead. I have seen several times a red post something like that part and then get away with it after a townie is lynched. I am 95% sure Gabriel is being set up right now. Zeks: I think GGQ made a huge catch here and I almost want to vote zeks because of that alone. Combined with zeks going after the easy target in Gabriel, I am more suspicious of him than I was Day 1, when zeks narrowly evaded the noose. This is something that I really disagree with, but it's because I felt strongly Zeks was town on Day 2. As bad of a town as Kenpachi was, but town nonetheless. I'm not sure how I feel about GGQ here, as he pointed out something that would in other circumstances be a pretty strong scumtell, but since zeks turned out clean one could WIFOM it, i.e. GGQ posted this so that zeks would take more heat as opposed to himself (who hasn't been posting much).
On December 15 2010 06:49 Infundibulum wrote:
Addendum: we should strongly consider voting double lynch tomorrow If we don't hit a red today.
On December 15 2010 06:54 Infundibulum wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2010 06:51 Kavdragon wrote:
One quick note. I was(am) writting up an analysis of this day's voting, and I'd like to remind people that we do have two double lynches.
I actually think that we should use one right now, but if it get the town to stop bickering about Zeks and Gabe, then perhaps it will be of benefit. What do you guys think? Do we have a strategy for double lynches? Generally we want to use a double lynch before the mafia has a lot of vote swinging power. I like to start double lynching on Day 3 or 4 (remember, if we vote for double lynch on Day 3 it doesn't come active until Day 4) because around this time detectives have usually hit at least 1 red if they are playing well. In addition, if we miss the lynch today we will almost have to vote for double lynch tomorrow in order to increase our chances of catching up to the mafia in terms of kills, especially since we can't count on M2 and there is no vigilante role that is town aligned. Okay, here's when I start to disagree. In fact I vehemently disagree. Voting double lynch when we have no good targets is suicide, because it's more likely for mafia to doubly confuse players. We have a wide variety of targets we can vote with all of the inactives we have, though I think we're taking a step in the right direction with the recent turn of events.
On December 15 2010 07:07 Infundibulum wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2010 06:53 Brocket wrote:
Good post Infund. Well as I said, I'm happy to vote myself day 3 should gabe be a red.
I've never supported Zeks, I only suggested Gabe was a higher priority because there is evidence (set up or otherwise) pointing against him.
I'll thrown in an extra. Whether zeks or gabe gets voted out as townie, I'll vote myself day 3. No worries. i think you mean should gabe be a town? in any case voting for yourself doesn't do anything, so I don't know what you're trying to prove. Pressure on brocket. Though it doesn't tell anything about himself, it's an adequate point on brocket.
On December 15 2010 08:46 Infundibulum wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2010 08:32 BrownBear wrote:
I am here, voting for myself again because I'm not superconvinced by any arguments so far. That said, having Hesmyrr as a (mostly) confirmed town voice is nice. That is seriously all you have to say? What is not convincing? Do you have any better alternatives?? Pressure on BrownBear for not doing jack shit. Something anyone could do, though the large majority of people haven't seen fit to do so.
My overall read on Infundibulum: most likely town. I am very much against the double lynch, though, which is the only thing that remains questionable with regard to Inf at this point. We need good targets before we lynch, and that means we need to root through inactives and get them posting.
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On December 17 2010 09:32 tube wrote:
i still think its lsb
This is true. He tries to blame everyone, well mostly me. To try and cover for himself before he gets caught.
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Time for a reply.
On December 16 2010 14:58 Kavdragon wrote:Show nested quote +On December 10 2010 10:03 d3_crescentia wrote:
Hesmyrr with the insubstantial "I agree" post. Let's watch out for him. Second post he made is criticizing another person. I think that it’s funny that Show nested quote +On December 10 2010 10:25 d3_crescentia wrote:On December 10 2010 10:23 Hesmyrr wrote:
Moreover D1 lynches are always crapshoot. It is good and fine to publicly discuss and prod one's suspects, but at least waiting until D2 so one have more actual data to support the case on him/her seems just better. This is a large setup so we cannot just afford to let all the lurkers pass-by. They're always crapshoot because we have players that go about finding scum in a crappy way. I suggest that everyone else vote for you as well. And so the Bash fest starts. Why not suggest a less crappy way of going about finding scum D1?
If you hadn't noticed it, I'm going about it by example. I thought Hesmyrr was scum, so I voted him to force a response from town and mafia. If town supported my views then we'd be able to find out. If mafia decided to join we'd have something to work with as well.
On December 16 2010 14:58 Kavdragon wrote:Show nested quote +On December 10 2010 10:32 d3_crescentia wrote:On December 10 2010 10:31 LSB wrote:On December 10 2010 10:26 jcarlsoniv wrote:On December 10 2010 10:21 LSB wrote:On December 10 2010 10:19 jcarlsoniv wrote:On December 10 2010 10:17 LSB wrote:On December 10 2010 10:15 d3_crescentia wrote:On December 10 2010 10:11 LSB wrote:On December 10 2010 10:02 d3_crescentia wrote:
48 hours is not a long time to find scum. Let's start now.
LSB's blue plan is pretty meh. It's not a good plan of attack for our Zams to check lurkers and inactives; they should be checking people who could be scum, including whoever is contributing the most. Keep in mind that all the mafia needs to do is to distract and confuse the town enough so that they make poor decisions.
Remember, the town's best weapon is analysis. By checking the inactives, we flush out the mafia to the limelight where they easily could be found. We want the mafia to attempt to distract the town, this way we can catch onto what they are doing. The town has to be vigilant to guard against these attempts + Show Spoiler +Discussing a plan is one of the best ways to generate activity and catch a scum btw I'd rather we just kill the inactives. I think checking them is a waste. The problem is that Lynching an inactive takes up an entire town lynch, which is far more useful and powerful than a DT check. Our lynches must work twords lowering mafia KP. At the same time, DTs must be used to work towards lowering mafia KP too. Analysis is great, but it can only go so far before WIFOM kicks in and confirmation is needed. Again, what do you propose to do about inactives? Well, here is my thought process. Wasting a lynch on an inactive sucks. However, I would prefer to use a lynch than a DT. Using a lynch is hit or miss, but it only wastes one action, while making more headway to finding scum with the DT. Using the DT on inactives pretty much wastes the DT if it is on town, while a lynch on a player is still a bit hit or miss (unless good analysis is done), and accidentally lynching an active townie would be more hurtful than an inactive townie. I am hoping it does not come to this and that everyone contributes though. I would love for a game without a bagillion modkills. Wait. What? Lynch is less important than a DT check? Seconded. That is kind of bullshit. Do you really need to say this? It seems totally unnecessary, and harmful to the town to bash people like this. Show nested quote +On December 10 2010 10:43 d3_crescentia wrote:On December 10 2010 10:35 Hesmyrr wrote:On December 10 2010 10:25 d3_crescentia wrote:On December 10 2010 10:23 Hesmyrr wrote:
Moreover D1 lynches are always crapshoot. It is good and fine to publicly discuss and prod one's suspects, but at least waiting until D2 so one have more actual data to support the case on him/her seems just better. This is a large setup so we cannot just afford to let all the lurkers pass-by. They're always crapshoot because we have players that go about finding scum in a crappy way. I suggest that everyone else vote for you as well. Chances of finding scum D2 > Chances of finding scum D1 always just purely on the basis that amount of information available will increase as the game progresses. So let's increase the amount of information available now. Why aren't you a good lynch candidate? You've contributed virtually nothing to the thread and are encouraging us to take a passive role in finding scum. Um… At this point you’ve not contributed anything great to the thread either. Your first post had some non-comittal plans, but was mostly just a disagreement with LSB. Why don’t you follow your own advice?
Fair point.
On December 16 2010 14:58 Kavdragon wrote:Show nested quote +On December 10 2010 10:46 d3_crescentia wrote:On December 10 2010 10:42 LSB wrote:On December 10 2010 10:34 jcarlsoniv wrote:On December 10 2010 10:31 LSB wrote:On December 10 2010 10:26 jcarlsoniv wrote:On December 10 2010 10:21 LSB wrote:On December 10 2010 10:19 jcarlsoniv wrote:On December 10 2010 10:17 LSB wrote:On December 10 2010 10:15 d3_crescentia wrote:
[quote]
I'd rather we just kill the inactives. I think checking them is a waste. The problem is that Lynching an inactive takes up an entire town lynch, which is far more useful and powerful than a DT check. Our lynches must work twords lowering mafia KP. At the same time, DTs must be used to work towards lowering mafia KP too. Analysis is great, but it can only go so far before WIFOM kicks in and confirmation is needed. Again, what do you propose to do about inactives? Well, here is my thought process. Wasting a lynch on an inactive sucks. However, I would prefer to use a lynch than a DT. Using a lynch is hit or miss, but it only wastes one action, while making more headway to finding scum with the DT. Using the DT on inactives pretty much wastes the DT if it is on town, while a lynch on a player is still a bit hit or miss (unless good analysis is done), and accidentally lynching an active townie would be more hurtful than an inactive townie. I am hoping it does not come to this and that everyone contributes though. I would love for a game without a bagillion modkills. Wait. What? Lynch is less important than a DT check? I would rather waste a Day 1 lynch than a Day 1 DT I feel. Day 1 lynches are tough. Definitely not impossible, but tough when everything is just starting out. Using a DT on someone who isn't going to even bother contributing wouldn't be worth it. Using DT checks on active members is definitely more important. I'm a bit confused now though...You want to DT check inactives AND lynch inactives? That just seems like a waste of resources. Lets say there are three people that are lurking. That's not a far fetched number, mafia love to lurk. Sure we lynch one of them during day one, but what about the other ones? Not all the DTs have to check of course. But maybe setting something such as a probability system would be enough to flush out the mafia. Roll a 1 check inactive A. Roll a 2 check inactive B. Roll a 3 check whoever you want. That plan will need to be modified, if not scrapped once we get our D1 vote list out. Hey look! More disagreements, without giving a alternative….Huh. That accusation sounds familiar…
Another fair point.
On December 16 2010 14:58 Kavdragon wrote:Show nested quote +On December 10 2010 11:04 d3_crescentia wrote:On December 10 2010 10:58 Gabriel wrote:On December 10 2010 10:46 d3_crescentia wrote:On December 10 2010 10:42 LSB wrote:On December 10 2010 10:34 jcarlsoniv wrote:On December 10 2010 10:31 LSB wrote:On December 10 2010 10:26 jcarlsoniv wrote:On December 10 2010 10:21 LSB wrote:On December 10 2010 10:19 jcarlsoniv wrote:
[quote]
At the same time, DTs must be used to work towards lowering mafia KP too. Analysis is great, but it can only go so far before WIFOM kicks in and confirmation is needed. Again, what do you propose to do about inactives? Well, here is my thought process. Wasting a lynch on an inactive sucks. However, I would prefer to use a lynch than a DT. Using a lynch is hit or miss, but it only wastes one action, while making more headway to finding scum with the DT. Using the DT on inactives pretty much wastes the DT if it is on town, while a lynch on a player is still a bit hit or miss (unless good analysis is done), and accidentally lynching an active townie would be more hurtful than an inactive townie. I am hoping it does not come to this and that everyone contributes though. I would love for a game without a bagillion modkills. Wait. What? Lynch is less important than a DT check? I would rather waste a Day 1 lynch than a Day 1 DT I feel. Day 1 lynches are tough. Definitely not impossible, but tough when everything is just starting out. Using a DT on someone who isn't going to even bother contributing wouldn't be worth it. Using DT checks on active members is definitely more important. I'm a bit confused now though...You want to DT check inactives AND lynch inactives? That just seems like a waste of resources. Lets say there are three people that are lurking. That's not a far fetched number, mafia love to lurk. Sure we lynch one of them during day one, but what about the other ones? Not all the DTs have to check of course. But maybe setting something such as a probability system would be enough to flush out the mafia. Roll a 1 check inactive A. Roll a 2 check inactive B. Roll a 3 check whoever you want. That plan will need to be modified, if not scrapped once we get our D1 vote list out. I rather check the active player and lynch the inactive player. The active player right now is more likely to be +info in the future anyways, while the inactive is just... well... inactive. By the way one of the worst game aproachs is the "im noob just reading and getting used to play". If you are town you rather post something small but with actual meaning. I still have a decent target day 1 unless he posts a few more than oneliners. Inactives is also my treasure box. I have no idea what that last line means. Why don't you tell us/vote for who your "decent target"? +info always benefits town. Another short unhelpful post. Why don’t you add some info to the town, eh? Seriously, you’ve called for “more info” multiple times, but haven’t added anything thus far…
Well, I *am* trying to call out players for not following through. At this point I've said that I don't think Hesmyrr is being very town, since he hasn't been proactive in doing anything and come in with a bunch of "I agree" posts. What I especially disagree with is that in the early game people will say "well I think I have a target but I'll wait and see what he does..." This is just bad play.
On December 16 2010 14:58 Kavdragon wrote:Show nested quote +On December 10 2010 11:05 d3_crescentia wrote:On December 10 2010 11:00 zeks wrote:
Lynch inactives or eventually they'll burn us in the ass in the end when we're fighting amongst each other
6 scum + 1 third party = 7 / 31 = 22% chance of sniping someone. I haven't played for a couple months but most the player list looks relatively foreign to me so I'm assuming theres quite a number of new players (over half?)
From what I've seen from past games newb scum tend to lurk (correct me if I'm wrong) so we shouldn't give a free pass to inactives. And with new players we don't have any material from past games to work with. And why don't you put your money where your mouth is and vote for an inactive instead of jumping on the bandwagon some clown started? LOL. Same to you my friend, Same to you. (Minus the whole jumping on a bandwagon part…) Also, your bashing the person who started it. Why not articulate your complaint against that person, instead of just calling them a clown? That was my complaint. I suppose I could have elaborated about what a bad poster he is.
On December 16 2010 14:58 Kavdragon wrote:Show nested quote +On December 10 2010 11:20 d3_crescentia wrote:On December 10 2010 11:12 Gabriel wrote:On December 10 2010 11:04 d3_crescentia wrote:On December 10 2010 10:58 Gabriel wrote:On December 10 2010 10:46 d3_crescentia wrote:On December 10 2010 10:42 LSB wrote:On December 10 2010 10:34 jcarlsoniv wrote:On December 10 2010 10:31 LSB wrote:On December 10 2010 10:26 jcarlsoniv wrote:
[quote]
Well, here is my thought process. Wasting a lynch on an inactive sucks. However, I would prefer to use a lynch than a DT. Using a lynch is hit or miss, but it only wastes one action, while making more headway to finding scum with the DT. Using the DT on inactives pretty much wastes the DT if it is on town, while a lynch on a player is still a bit hit or miss (unless good analysis is done), and accidentally lynching an active townie would be more hurtful than an inactive townie.
I am hoping it does not come to this and that everyone contributes though. I would love for a game without a bagillion modkills. Wait. What? Lynch is less important than a DT check? I would rather waste a Day 1 lynch than a Day 1 DT I feel. Day 1 lynches are tough. Definitely not impossible, but tough when everything is just starting out. Using a DT on someone who isn't going to even bother contributing wouldn't be worth it. Using DT checks on active members is definitely more important. I'm a bit confused now though...You want to DT check inactives AND lynch inactives? That just seems like a waste of resources. Lets say there are three people that are lurking. That's not a far fetched number, mafia love to lurk. Sure we lynch one of them during day one, but what about the other ones? Not all the DTs have to check of course. But maybe setting something such as a probability system would be enough to flush out the mafia. Roll a 1 check inactive A. Roll a 2 check inactive B. Roll a 3 check whoever you want. That plan will need to be modified, if not scrapped once we get our D1 vote list out. I rather check the active player and lynch the inactive player. The active player right now is more likely to be +info in the future anyways, while the inactive is just... well... inactive. By the way one of the worst game aproachs is the "im noob just reading and getting used to play". If you are town you rather post something small but with actual meaning. I still have a decent target day 1 unless he posts a few more than oneliners. Inactives is also my treasure box. I have no idea what that last line means. Why don't you tell us/vote for who your "decent target"? +info always benefits town. I have a half decent target in the "im new guys" list. However right now i really want to flip Infundibulum because A) He came out of nowhere to dismiss lynching inactives (and that is really nonsense for a player that has played a lot of games) B) I cant believe jcarsoniv just posted a single Why? to LSB vote. With a game of 31 people and a little more than half the people having posted recently it's just dumb to blindvote someone for "just showing up." What do you read into the line about efficiency that I don't? Ok, again, want to suggest an alternative? Seriously dude, how did I miss your hypocritical bashing before now? Hesmyrr. I guess I could have SHOUTED LOUDER and call people dumbasses in the early game when there wasn't any danger.
On December 16 2010 14:58 Kavdragon wrote:Show nested quote +On December 10 2010 12:12 d3_crescentia wrote:On December 10 2010 12:11 Gabriel wrote:On December 10 2010 12:01 Oceanic wrote:On December 10 2010 11:57 Gabriel wrote:On December 10 2010 11:44 Kenpachi wrote:On December 10 2010 11:40 Gabriel wrote:On December 10 2010 11:34 Kenpachi wrote:On December 10 2010 11:20 Gabriel wrote:Interesting: my half good "im new" shot is now voting for me. Kenpachi care to explain A) your vote B) your deep posts? + Show Spoiler +On December 10 2010 07:11 Kenpachi wrote:
oh shit.. i cant really imagine Professor Oak dead D: On December 10 2010 07:47 Kenpachi wrote:
Pikachu - Townie
Raichu - Miller
Chansey - Medic
Cloyster - Veteran
Alakazam - Detective
Electrode - Mad Hatter
Mew - Special Detective
Gengar - God Father
Koffing - Mafia Grunt
Weezing - Mafia Shrink
Mewtwo - 3rd Party Vigilante
notice how our only way of killing at night is Mad Hatter and 3rd party.. 3rd party is technically against us and will probably kill town over mafia due to immunity and their goal is to be last alive. On December 10 2010 07:50 Kenpachi wrote:
yea claiming is a no no. and i hate lynching inactives. doesnt work at all. On December 10 2010 08:01 Kenpachi wrote:
how many people can Mafia target per night? On December 10 2010 08:12 Kenpachi wrote:Show nested quote +On December 10 2010 08:11 Eiii wrote:There always seem to be posts about how we all need to establish a 'pro-town environment', which is obvious of course I (and I'm sure lots of other newer players) have no clue what that *means* though, especially when we can't PM each other. (That might turn out to be more of a blessing than a curse though.) So... can someone enlighten me? basically, where we can point out scum easily without confusing them as town.. i think On December 10 2010 08:14 Kenpachi wrote:Show nested quote +On December 10 2010 08:13 KtheZ wrote:
Do we have a limited amount of double lynches? I think its 2. what would posting history 4 hours into the game show you? A) You dont want to be active posting B) You want to "look" active C) You read the rules but you actually dont know mafia KP? That was rare. D) You dont want to lynch inactives because that doesnt work. E) You want enlightment. F) You vote for me out of literally nowhere. I mean: i post to flip Infundibulum and you come right after me. Care to explain at least? A) 4 hours does not judge that. what if i went on TL tomorrow for the first time in the past 3 days? B) Anyone who posts would want to look active.. Why would they post if they want to look inactive? C) Why are you assuming i read the rules? how do you know i didnt just assume the KP? D) It doesnt. shh E) ?? its enlightenment F) I dont agree with you voting for Infundibulum. A) Well you just wrote 7 one liners and have yet to post something relevant. B) But you are NOT. It is not about how you look. Come on that is not an argument, so you post one liners to look active? what is that? Sparta? C) Well you actually read the rules because you posted the pokemon/classicmafia relation. I wonder why you just couldnt look for the mafia KP, and insisted to look clueless asking for it. D) It doesnt? well you were pretty much inactive and so was Infundibulum. Maybe it does.E) You think too much. You have again 2 posts where you "think" about this "think" about that, when it is clear that those post refer to info available in the opening rules. This heavily smells like "im not too sure, i dont know" plot. F) So you agree that you are protecting infundibulum by voting me: More reason to flip him!. This logic is flawed since the game just started. So they didn't post right at the start and their first post was later then a lot of people's. So they were inactive til their first post? What about all the other people that haven't posted yet. When they make their first post are you going to say the same thing about them? After all, they were even later and therefore must be even more suspicious? Note that Kenpachi was actually posting since the start of the thread. People is inactive because we are just starting the game but nonsense has to be pinned down as soon as it comes out. I find hilariously weird that a guy posting one liners comes right after i vote Infundibulum (with a reason that may or may not be strong for other players) and simply votes Gabriel because he doesnt like my vote on Infundibulum. What do you think? Is that normal? He didnt even posted that. So is this your first game? More bashing. Totally unhelpful.
I wanted to know. If it was, he'd earn some leeway; if he wasn't then he'd need to be watched more carefully.
On December 16 2010 14:58 Kavdragon wrote:Show nested quote +On December 10 2010 13:52 d3_crescentia wrote:On December 10 2010 12:19 Gabriel wrote:On December 10 2010 12:12 d3_crescentia wrote:On December 10 2010 12:11 Gabriel wrote:On December 10 2010 12:01 Oceanic wrote:On December 10 2010 11:57 Gabriel wrote:On December 10 2010 11:44 Kenpachi wrote:On December 10 2010 11:40 Gabriel wrote:On December 10 2010 11:34 Kenpachi wrote:
[quote]
what would posting history 4 hours into the game show you? A) You dont want to be active posting B) You want to "look" active C) You read the rules but you actually dont know mafia KP? That was rare. D) You dont want to lynch inactives because that doesnt work. E) You want enlightment. F) You vote for me out of literally nowhere. I mean: i post to flip Infundibulum and you come right after me. Care to explain at least? A) 4 hours does not judge that. what if i went on TL tomorrow for the first time in the past 3 days? B) Anyone who posts would want to look active.. Why would they post if they want to look inactive? C) Why are you assuming i read the rules? how do you know i didnt just assume the KP? D) It doesnt. shh E) ?? its enlightenment F) I dont agree with you voting for Infundibulum. A) Well you just wrote 7 one liners and have yet to post something relevant. B) But you are NOT. It is not about how you look. Come on that is not an argument, so you post one liners to look active? what is that? Sparta? C) Well you actually read the rules because you posted the pokemon/classicmafia relation. I wonder why you just couldnt look for the mafia KP, and insisted to look clueless asking for it. D) It doesnt? well you were pretty much inactive and so was Infundibulum. Maybe it does.E) You think too much. You have again 2 posts where you "think" about this "think" about that, when it is clear that those post refer to info available in the opening rules. This heavily smells like "im not too sure, i dont know" plot. F) So you agree that you are protecting infundibulum by voting me: More reason to flip him!. This logic is flawed since the game just started. So they didn't post right at the start and their first post was later then a lot of people's. So they were inactive til their first post? What about all the other people that haven't posted yet. When they make their first post are you going to say the same thing about them? After all, they were even later and therefore must be even more suspicious? Note that Kenpachi was actually posting since the start of the thread. People is inactive because we are just starting the game but nonsense has to be pinned down as soon as it comes out. I find hilariously weird that a guy posting one liners comes right after i vote Infundibulum (with a reason that may or may not be strong for other players) and simply votes Gabriel because he doesnt like my vote on Infundibulum. What do you think? Is that normal? He didnt even posted that. So is this your first game? You are not good at reading my friend ⇓. I thought you were a better mafia player on your old account. What happened to that? More criticism. Still no actual content.
You know what, you're right. I'm just being mean.
On December 16 2010 14:58 Kavdragon wrote:Show nested quote +On December 12 2010 08:03 d3_crescentia wrote:
Hasn't it been 48 hours already since Day 1 post? Valid question. Meh.
On December 16 2010 14:58 Kavdragon wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2010 17:21 d3_crescentia wrote:
My read on last night's events:
Last nights deaths make sense from the context of ridding the town of leadership and/or bluesniping. Tree.hugger had already established himself as a strong town player despite his misread on Kenpachi. I imagine his blue-ness was icing on the cake for mafia. Similarly for jcarlsoniv, who contributed to discussion. RoL is a dangerous player to have for anyone around, and his relative activity makes sense for a blue read (for me, anyway).
Who took the 4th hit? Step up and claim. If you do NOT, then it leaves room for Gengar to sneak in.
I'm having a hard time coming up with more leads at this point in time. With mafia targeting active townies they're looking more to destroy whatever organization we're getting and feed us whatever lies they want us to believe. LSB and Hesmyrr seem likely to me, as does Gabriel. The Eiii/zeks is something I'm not entirely sure on, because I never bought into Gabriel's analysis of zeks too strongly. Yes! Finally you contribute something more than a one liner! Ok. So an actual analysis of what happened. I think that it’s mostly commenting on somewhat obvious points, but hey, I’ll give you some slack, it’s your first analysis. Also, not that this says a lot, but everyone on your suspect list that has died has flipped town. Just wanted to point that out.
I guess I am just bad at finding scum.
On December 16 2010 14:58 Kavdragon wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2010 17:22 d3_crescentia wrote:On December 13 2010 17:15 Brocket wrote:
I was reading through the roles again. I get why there was only voltorb because electrode only gets to place 1 voltorb per night or switches 1 voltorb per night (not both).
But what seems odd to me is the rule that if mew is checked by alakazam, mew will appear as alakazam. What's the point of that if there is only 1 alakazam in the game?
I kind of get that gengar can appear as alakazam too. I guess that's a given that gengar will always choose to apper as alakazam.. to appear as mew? Honestly I would have just made it mew appears as mew, and gengar can appear as mew. There is probably more than 1 Alakazam in the game. Hmm. Something I was just thinking about. A fair thing to point out, not going to lie… Okay.
On December 16 2010 14:58 Kavdragon wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2010 23:47 d3_crescentia wrote:The relative silence of the town bothers me, because it's just what mafia needs to win. The contribution of members named KtheZ, chaoser, deconduo, Insanious, ShoCkeyy, serApH, DCLXVI, Oceanic is virtually nil. We need to spend our time finding by rooting through the list of semi-lurking voters and figure out which ones we want to kill and/or check. Gabriel's insistence on a zeks vote today is distracting, but the votes on him thus far aren't very well-explained either. LSB and Shockeyy need to explain themselves on this. Actually, Shockeyy needs to explain himself, period. He only has ONE post thus far in the thread: + Show Spoiler +On December 12 2010 05:51 ShoCkeyy wrote:Show nested quote +On December 12 2010 04:35 tree.hugger wrote:On December 11 2010 17:41 tree.hugger wrote:My hunch is that he's not going to be able to commit fully to anything, no matter how much we prod.
On December 12 2010 02:30 Kenpachi wrote:
asdf. even when i post, i get pointed scum On December 12 2010 02:35 Kenpachi wrote:
okay so yea my posts were bad but what can i say? i couldnt offer anything there and there. So i voted Gabriel for blatant bandwagon. Then he reacts and i defend. On December 12 2010 02:27 Kenpachi wrote:
##vote tree.hugger On December 12 2010 04:10 Kenpachi wrote:On December 12 2010 03:39 DCLXVI wrote:
Thank you insanious and tree.hugger, I hope to see more people post like that. I don't understand why people are letting Kenpachi off the hook for bad posting. So what if he has a history of being less than stellar for the town. We cannot allow him to spam and distract the town because even if he isn't mafia, this helps the mafia. He is playing in a way that benefits the mafia, so even if he isn't (though I think he is), he is dangerous for the town. I really don't like the defense used by darth and meepak of "oh, well this is just how he normally plays". Townies don't intentionally hurt the town by doing what kenpachi is doing.
I'll hopefully be back in a bit before the vote ends, but I feel safe in putting my vote on Kenpachi. Every vote on him is a vote to clean up the town. youre dumb. what if i happened to be DT or Medic? On December 12 2010 04:13 Kenpachi wrote:On December 12 2010 04:12 jcarlsoniv wrote:On December 12 2010 04:10 Kenpachi wrote:On December 12 2010 03:39 DCLXVI wrote:
Thank you insanious and tree.hugger, I hope to see more people post like that. I don't understand why people are letting Kenpachi off the hook for bad posting. So what if he has a history of being less than stellar for the town. We cannot allow him to spam and distract the town because even if he isn't mafia, this helps the mafia. He is playing in a way that benefits the mafia, so even if he isn't (though I think he is), he is dangerous for the town. I really don't like the defense used by darth and meepak of "oh, well this is just how he normally plays". Townies don't intentionally hurt the town by doing what kenpachi is doing.
I'll hopefully be back in a bit before the vote ends, but I feel safe in putting my vote on Kenpachi. Every vote on him is a vote to clean up the town. youre dumb. what if i happened to be DT or Medic? Are you claiming DT or medic? no i am not Word. I suppose we'll get treated to angry defending eventually, as he's in the lead right now, but hey, that might be too committed. Alright, I feel like kenpachi is getting way to agressive here. All his post have been aggressive and not helpful in anyway. + Show Spoiler +A) 4 hours does not judge that. what if i went on TL tomorrow for the first time in the past 3 days? B) Anyone who posts would want to look active.. Why would they post if they want to look inactive? C) Why are you assuming i read the rules? how do you know i didnt just assume the KP? D) It doesnt. shh E) ?? its enlightenment F) I dont agree with you voting for Infundibulum. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=174831¤tpage=14#270When he starts saying, that why do people assume that he reads the rules, makes me question him. Everyone reads the rules and we know this because that's part of the game. If he's saying he doesn't that just seems phishy to me imo. I also feel like, he posted the DT or Medic theory in order to try and get some people off of his case cause he can possibly be a TR member. I've seen this happen plenty of times where they pull out the "I might be a DT or Medic" and they end up not being it. My two cents, maybe I am wrong, but this is what I've been able to read off of. I'll be back in the evening, so don't go anywhere. Huh. Didn’t you say earlier that DT’s need to focus on the active people? Why wouldn’t we follow the same advice? Your plan seems backwards. Townies work off of analysis, so it’s pretty hard to get a good read on a lurker. They have nothing to analyze. So why tell the town to do the thing that they are worst at, and tell the DT’s to check the very people that the town can check the easiest? This is pretty scummy to me…
The town needs to pressure inactives to speak by means of voting them. The DTs need to check whoever's doing the pressuring so that they can either clear them or lynch them. I am well-aware that this leaves the possibility of Gengar/GFs to slip into the role of "town leader," but this also leaves them more open to analysis.
On December 15 2010 08:59 d3_crescentia wrote:
Shockeyy, I was going to call out Amber, but then I read his early game posts and found no problem with them. Whereas for you... I read one post. If you don't want to be of suspicion contribute more... and make it so that it isn't just you defending yourself or revenge voting against us. As for LSB, I don't think he has enough attention on him as he advocated things I didn't really agree with overall. Please don't take my posts out of context to do make us seem like bed-buddies.
I seriously SERIOUSLY disagree with double lynching tomorrow. Do we have good candidates yet? I might reconsider if we can confirm at least ONE.
If you’re going to read through all his posts, why not post an analysis? “If you don’t want to be suspicious, contribute more.” You said it yourself. Unless bashing is considered “contributing” then you’ve got a lot to answer for…[/QUOTE] I was working on it, but then I had to go to work.
On December 15 2010 09:06 d3_crescentia wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2010 08:46 Infundibulum wrote:On December 15 2010 08:32 BrownBear wrote:
I am here, voting for myself again because I'm not superconvinced by any arguments so far. That said, having Hesmyrr as a (mostly) confirmed town voice is nice. That is seriously all you have to say? What is not convincing? Do you have any better alternatives?? Let's vote BrownBear instead. Y/N?
Totally unhelpful, adds nothing to the town. Just quotes someone and suggests a lynch. Even if it was a joke, you’re adding spam to the board, something that you’ve been doing a lot of. [/QUOTE]
It was half-serious. Brownbear hasn't done much thus far.
On December 15 2010 12:25 d3_crescentia wrote:
@Kavdragon, I would agree with your analysis of Amber, except that *I* started with a Shockeyy vote. At that point in time we had a total of exactly FIVE votes. You might consider it late in the day, but I'm not satisfied with a town vote on one candidate. Of course it troubles me that my actions could split the vote so late, but what was even more troubling is that we had an entire town willing to go with Zeks based entirely on Day 1 discussion, and very little to go on for Day 2. Someone has to take the lead here.
Secondly, Zeks might very well turn out green and if we have 100% of town voting them, there's absolutely nothing to analyze. As it stands it looks more likely that Gabriel is scum, not me, as he seemingly dodged another lynch today. Are my actions indicative that I did so to derail his wagon, considering only a few people followed? Maybe you should consider the other 9+ people voting on Zeks right now instead.
Oh? I hadn’t noticed you voted before amber’s analysis. So you voted Shockeyy without even bothering to share your explination…The hell? How did the town miss this? And you accused others of jumping on a bandwagon unexplained…Really? [/QUOTE]
Yes, I started the bandwagon of 3 people. I did explain - he's only posted ONCE thus far in the thread... and instantly he flares up and defends himself. That behavior is not particularly telling in and of itself, but his later actions need to be watched.
On December 15 2010 12:33 d3_crescentia wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2010 11:46 LSB wrote:ShoCkey Previous Game Analysis Caller's Red Army Mafyia: Role: Medic Posted 99% one liners. Got angry and warned for flaming. Mafia XVI: Role: Townie: Takes positions, especially on Xelin. Defends himself mostly civily. Mostly one-liners. + Show Spoiler +On January 21 2010 08:41 ShoCkeyy wrote:Show nested quote +On January 21 2010 08:34 QuickStriker wrote:On January 21 2010 08:21 ShoCkeyy wrote:On January 21 2010 08:17 QuickStriker wrote:On January 21 2010 08:14 ShoCkeyy wrote:
O_o we haven't started yet right? Uhh... yes we did??? And like no one is around to discuss and talk about the game in contrast to the other mafia game where it's way more active.... =/ Well I posted in the voting thread already since I couldn't find it till now ._. Hmm... well welcome!!! Glad to have at least one more active member of our little town.... it seems the mafias have put some poison gas or some sort of gas which is why everyone is silent or sleeping right now.... o.O Well QuickStriker, I will support you in this. I don't think you're the Mafia. Show nested quote +On January 20 2010 17:01 XeliN wrote:On January 20 2010 12:52 no_re wrote:Well hi everyone, my first mafia game, not entirely sure how it works so bare with me if Im doing it wrong, however relating to the "clues" posted everyday here is what I got from the above entry. My first thought when dissecting the post was this rather obvious quote: With a quick attack, the Sheriff Ace collapsed to the ground. A quick attack? Well with a player named QuickStriker in the game this looks like a kind of obvious clue. Also he was the first to respond to the first Sheriff Candidacy anouncement of Fulgrim, drawing attention to himself being "amused" by Fulgrim's "I'm not a mafia" comment. This intruiged me. I think that analysis overall was extremely good, from reading up on some earlier Mafia games it seems that the host often likes the come up with elaborate or entertaining deaths. This in itself makes the " With a quick attack " stand out far more in my eyes, and somewhat exonerates the other as possibly just being a whimsical choice by the host. In all honesty this by itself is enough to make me fairly suspicious and Quickstriker I am still more suspicious when I see some of what you have typed. In particular your reaction to no_re's non-serious accusation where you are essentially saying we must "hold off any action untill the DT comes forward and leads us through the valley of death and into the promised land" - I paraphrased, This however, as far as I can tell is an exceptionally bad strategy, the point of electing a mayor or sherrif is someone who seems active, discerning and importantly decisive, and your suggestion of sit and wait reeks to me on manipulation at an early stage. p.s. am i doin it rite? I think Xelin is the Mafia. He's already accusing you of being mafia even though the game hasn't started. Not only that, he's trying to submit himself as the Mayor, trying to find his way around from being lynched off. He knows that if he is able to be the mayor, then we're screwed. On January 21 2010 09:38 ShoCkeyy wrote:
Hmm, I don't like this whole vote for me thing. Seems fishy, and especially the way he words it. He tries to win you over, so he can make sure he wins. I like his style no lie. But I won't be able to vote for him. Laaan, sorry, but my vote remains the same.
All you out of towners better stay in ya'll wreckin area. We don't like you hippie folks round hea. On January 22 2010 00:30 ShoCkeyy wrote:
Ok, so I see some of you think I should be lynched. Well for one, I'm typing off my phone, so bare with me. Second, I voted for quikstriker, cause he seems like the right canidate for the mayor position out of everyone else here who is trying to be mayor. I rather choose some one who didn't impose themselves into trying to be mayor. Brings me to my reason as to why I would want xelin lynched.
Xelin saw that quikstriker was being the most helpful in this thread. He didn't like that, so he quickly picks quikstriker to be lynched. Then soon after post that he wants to be mayor, the reason as to why I don't want to vote for some one that says "I'm running for mayor." They seem more fake than anybody else here. Now I can tell you, I vote for xelin to be lynched 75% of the way.
The other 25% go to those who are quietly coming in that have watched us argue about who to lynch first. I feel like they watched us bicker to see and now that we have some what of an idea who we're going to lynch first. Now the mafia come in to back them up so we an lynch a townie. Which brings me to my other conclusion. Decafchicken I'm watching you. And one more that Shockeyy left out TL Mafia XVIII: Role: Mafia: Shockey was under heavy clue suspicion. He responded mostly civilly. However, most noticeably Shockey has essentially only one post that isn't either spam or defending himself (included below). Shockey shys away from taking any positions, besides defending himself. + Show Spoiler +On February 28 2010 07:30 ShoCkeyy wrote:
I think it's pretty clear right now that the town should not be voting to kill Scamp. He is right in that at best all L has is some shaky clue analysis. In fact, most of L's clue analysis is directed at other players (Chez, johnny, me) and not at Scamp, go read his posts if you don't believe me.
Something I've noticed is that Scamp has actually taken the time to legitimately defend himself. I remember when we were going to lynch Mystlord, he hardly said a thing and most of what he said only incriminated him more. Right now the only thing incriminating Scamp is L. Also when QS was going to be lynched he came up with the stupid modkill plan that had no way working. Scamp hasn't tried to pull anything of that caliber. It seems to me he's arguing as a townsperson.
To the town, L has already convinced you to lynch our Mayor/medic. What's going to happen when Scamp turns up innocent? We'll be in a bigger mindfuck than we are right now. tree.hugger is clearly the safer vote right now. It's no doubt that if Scamp does not get lynched, L will continue to incriminate him. If Scamp is indeed mafia, he's going to slip up somewhere. Do you agree? Or any objections? For context, was Scamp on his team? Were they in a losing position? A winning position? This doesn't actually say shit until we know what the history was in that game.
Bashing of useful information to the town.[/QUOTE]
I'll take that. I was in TLM XVI and while the defensiveness was the same, he did try to contribute more than he has now.
On December 16 2010 14:58 Kavdragon wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2010 12:48 d3_crescentia wrote:
Day should end now so I can go to sleep ^_^ Show nested quote +On December 15 2010 13:13 d3_crescentia wrote:
but it's not gonna so I'm going to sleep >_< Spam. Don't care.
On December 16 2010 14:58 Kavdragon wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2010 20:55 d3_crescentia wrote:On December 15 2010 18:25 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
I just wanna say I'm delighted at how not spammy this game has been. I'm not. Means that there isn't adequate discussion or finger-pointing to get anywhere. I must say sir, you’ve contributed marvelously to the conversation you are so keen to point out. [/sarcasm] I have. I've been trying to point fingers all over the place so that people will come out of their shells and talk.
On December 16 2010 14:58 Kavdragon wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2010 21:20 d3_crescentia wrote:
Zeks voters where you at? Oh right, below:
zeks
Gabriel
DCLXVI
GGQ
kitaman27
Insanious
DarthThienAn
Infundibulum
chaoser
Oceanic
Eiii
KtheZ
Node
ghrur
Gabriel
Brocket
ShoCkeyy
dinmsab
deconduo
Kavdragon
Shockeyy
d3_crescentia
Amber[LighT]
LSB
Brownbear
Brownbear
SerapH
SerapH
Pandain?
tube
LSB
Cross-examine with yesterday's vote list:
Hesmyrr 1
d3_crescentia
LSB 1
tube
Gabriel 1
dinmsab
Stormtemplar 1
zeks
ghrur 1
ghrur
Zeks 11
Gabriel
KtheZ
Infundibulum
Node
DarthThienAn
Meapak_Ziphh
chaoser
Hesmyrr?
Kenpachi
GGQ
Oceanic
kenpachi 12
tree.hugger
deconduo
Insanious
Brocket
LSB
jcarlsoniv
DCLXVI
Kavdragon
ShoCkeyy
seRapH
Amber[LighT]
Eiii
kitaman27 1
kitaman27
BrownBear 1
BrownBear
Please note that RoL did not vote Day 1 and is now dead. Analysis inc
PS I think my tags are screwy. Hey look at me! It’s a big long list with NOTHING SAID.
Sorry, I'm a proponent of post what you have and then elaborate. I usually take a long time to articulate posts, and generally when I do post the conversation has moved on vastly. I'm trying to rectify that, but as you can see I'm not very successful. Also, at the time, Coagulation hadn't posted an updated vote list, so I figured it might be useful to have around.
On December 15 2010 22:25 d3_crescentia wrote:
Important things to note on this list:
Inactives/single votes
There is absolutely no way we can continue voting in onesies because it makes analysis too hard. Of these on Day 1 we have: Brownbear, kitaman27, ghrur, dinmsab, and tube. Their actions on Day 2: Brownbear, tube (also note that in the above list tube should be voting for LSB, not the other way around), dinmsab with no change. Brownbear's inactivity is terrible and his presence isn't good for the town at all. As for the other two, dinmsab has voted for Gabriel twice and the same for tube -> LSB. If either of these two strongly believe in their votes then they should be in the thread actively promoting their viewpoint instead of sitting back passively; otherwise they might as well be scum.
The meat: Zeks
You might note that the Zeks list is virtually identical between Day 1 and 2, with the exception of Hesmyrr/Pandain and kitaman27/Insanious/Eiii jumping ship from elsewhere. Insanious wasted a lot of time sticking his neck out in a tree-hugger analysis; Eiii is not necessarily scum given his last-minute vote on zeks Day 1; kitaman27 played fairly aggressive pro-town in the beginning but has fallen silent since. For now, we shouldn't care too much about these people.
The rest of the list (and a brief summary of posts):
DCLXVI - not much contribution here as far as targets; just a bunch of fluff
GGQ - makes a few points wrt Zeks (I found them uncompelling, but maybe that's hindsight)
chaoser - some early game discussion and defense of Kenpachi; has cited finals
Oceanic - early defense of infundibulum/anti-Gabriel; has cited finals
KtheZ - early agreement/defense of Gabriel and then vanished
Node - points out LSB, agrees with Gabriel wrt Zeks, believes Hesmyrr's (now Pandain's) roleclaim
ghrur - agreement with Node on LSB
I'm going to take the other three (Gabriel, DarthThienAn, Infundibulum) separately and get back to it tonight. Stay tuned for one more post...
Hmm. This one almost had me. It looks like you are contributing a little, because it’s not a one liner, but then I read it. You give off a list of people with tiny (and inaccurate, imo) mini analyses, that often make no sense at all. Way to go, you’ve just made it look like you’re adding to the town, without actually adding. A classic mafia move. [/QUOTE]
I agree with you here. I felt at a loss after posting this, because I couldn't glean much from the vote lists.
On December 16 2010 14:58 Kavdragon wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2010 22:49 d3_crescentia wrote:
I don't pretend I'm good at analysis; in fact I'm probably trash terrible at it. Shortened because I have to go to work soon -_-
Here's what I noticed about the Zeks list in particular:
- Much of the voting comes from Gabriel's early game analysis of Zeks. While Gabriel himself could be whatever, at least one of his supporters IS scum. Let's work on analyzing Gabriel and his early-game followers.
- The discussion between DCLXVI and chaoser wrt to Kenpachi is particularly telling. Chaoser's defense is along the lines of "Kenpachi just posts that way" while DCLXVI's responses are "yeah but if he WERE mafia it'd be so easy for him to hide!" Something about this just doesn't strike me as particularly innocent on DCLXVI's part, as he seems to be posting an unnecessary defense of himself when Kenpachi died, and a lot of "we should do/have done X" statements recently. His vote for zeks isn't particularly well-justified; in fact it's a bit of a 180-degree turn as he suddenly shifted from "Kenpachi is scum" to "scum must have bandwagoned Kenpachi in the end to save zeks!" (Post on this sometime tonight as well)
Okay, off to work. Hope that's enough for you guys to chew on for tomorrow. Someone else come up with a night plan? In general, Gabriel might be good to check; DTA/Inf as well; DCLXVI cuz I think so. Medics protect who you can/find most compelling. This is the first try at an actual analysis, imo. But I’d tend to agree with you. It’s not that great. You paraphrase things with a major bias, and you end up with a weak argument that doesn’t help the town. Then you act like you just contributed a bunch of information for the town to “chew” over. LOL, at the end you tell medics to heal whoever they think is the most compelling, something that you criticized someone earlier for doing. Scummy inconsistencies…
Yes. This is bad play. I'm sorry for that.
On December 16 2010 14:58 Kavdragon wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2010 22:49 d3_crescentia wrote:On December 15 2010 22:38 flamewheel wrote:
lol post quiet you Spam Yes, counter-spam. FW should keep his mouth to himself.
On December 16 2010 14:58 Kavdragon wrote:Show nested quote +On December 16 2010 09:43 Amber[LighT] wrote:I believe this is what the quote in question was supposed to mean. I have made a number of post edits and it seemed to be getting spammy. On December 15 2010 07:50 ShoCkeyy wrote:Want to bandwagon against me? Well heres your chance to now redeem yourselves from what I'm about to post. Analysis for Day 1: Already agreeing with each other, but hey this isn't enough yet. + Show Spoiler +On December 10 2010 07:43 LSB wrote:I'll just use posts made before Inactives:Show nested quote +A big problem in every mafia game is inactivity. I don't want another drag_ being able to squeak by with barely any posts. We should immediately show it is not okay to be inactive.
Inactive players hurt the town as they waste lynches down the road as the town will need to try to separate the mafia from the inactives.
We should therefore lynch an inactive day one. This will force the assassins to discuss and not be able to turtle, increasing the chance they will slip up. PlanFirstly. DO NOT CLAIM DO NOT CLAIM Good now that we got that out of the way, some other ideas. One plan that would work is to use the blue roles to promote activity in the town. The Alakazam should check the inactive people and the lurkers, as it is incredibly difficult if not impossible to tell the difference between a bored townie and a lurking mafia. The Chansey's should protect active players, this way the mafia won't be able to take out the people who are contributing the most to town, so people won't be scared of trying to put forth their opinions. On December 10 2010 07:47 Amber[LighT] wrote:
*Things like role checks.
I agree with LSB as well, no role claiming strategies. They almost never work. On December 10 2010 10:03 d3_crescentia wrote:
Hesmyrr with the insubstantial "I agree" post. Let's watch out for him. d3, why don't you also watch out for your team mates? or are you trying to confuse the town as well. Here's some more agreeing by LSB, BUT CONTRADICTING. First d3 says meh to LSB plan, but then later on agrees to LSB plan. + Show Spoiler +On December 10 2010 10:15 d3_crescentia wrote:
LSB's blue plan is pretty meh. It's not a good plan of attack for our Zams to check lurkers and inactives; they should be checking people who could be scum, including whoever is contributing the most. Keep in mind that all the mafia needs to do is to distract and confuse the town enough so that they make poor decisions. On December 10 2010 10:11 LSB wrote:Remember, the town's best weapon is analysis. By checking the inactives, we flush out the mafia to the limelight where they easily could be found. We want the mafia to attempt to distract the town, this way we can catch onto what they are doing. The town has to be vigilant to guard against these attempts + Show Spoiler +
Discussing a plan is one of the best ways to generate activity and catch a scum btw
On December 10 2010 10:15 d3_crescentia wrote:
I'd rather we just kill the inactives. I think checking them is a waste. Some more agreeing from d3 to LSB + Show Spoiler +On December 10 2010 10:32 d3_crescentia wrote:Show nested quote +On December 10 2010 10:31 LSB wrote:
Wait. What?
Lynch is less important than a DT check? Seconded. That is kind of bullshit.
Something a townie once said, which is quite true. Why would you go into a game already telling what people to do? Why do you constantly force your opinion to be "the voice of reasoning" + Show Spoiler +On December 10 2010 08:53 jcarlsoniv wrote:
@LSB: While trying to coordinate blues seems good, I have to say, the more games I play, the more I hate to see people directing blues in thread. On Day 1, I think they need to do what they think needs to be done without influence from the thread. Any direction from the thread can also be seen by scum, and thus they will be clued in as well. No, obviously, I know that the blues don't need to listen to what is said in the thread, but they will be influenced by what is said. Let's hope we have good blues this time around. On December 10 2010 09:59 jcarlsoniv wrote:Show nested quote +On December 10 2010 09:53 LSB wrote:On December 10 2010 09:48 jcarlsoniv wrote:On December 10 2010 09:40 LSB wrote:On December 10 2010 09:16 jcarlsoniv wrote:
Also @LSB: I don't think we should say "we need to lynch inactives". While it may pressure scum to come out from hiding, I have seen it hit town more often than not. I think we need to deal with who is out and talking and giving us things to analyze rather than just blindly shooting into a room with a shotgun. How do you propose we deal with inactives/lurkers then? We can't just 'leave it for another day'. It's going to be a problem, and if we have no good leads day one, we should do this early, rather than late. On December 10 2010 08:53 jcarlsoniv wrote:
@LSB: While trying to coordinate blues seems good, I have to say, the more games I play, the more I hate to see people directing blues in thread. On Day 1, I think they need to do what they think needs to be done without influence from the thread. Any direction from the thread can also be seen by scum, and thus they will be clued in as well. No, obviously, I know that the blues don't need to listen to what is said in the thread, but they will be influenced by what is said. Let's hope we have good blues this time around. So your saying that plans are bad? Interesting. Take my plan, what's bad about it? I agree that we should point to inactives if we have no other leads, but I'm saying to not just say "ok, let's find the inactives" right away. We have 48 hours to find candidates for lynch, no reason to dismiss the possibility of finding one right off the bat. I didn't say your plan was bad, seeing as you didn't really post a plan, nor did I say the word "plan" I was merely pointing out my own observations. What you had posted was good, it was vague, and a good general direction. Getting anymore specific than that at this point can be dangerous. On December 10 2010 09:40 Gabriel wrote:On December 10 2010 09:16 jcarlsoniv wrote:
Also @LSB: I don't think we should say "we need to lynch inactives". While it may pressure scum to come out from hiding, I have seen it hit town more often than not. I think we need to deal with who is out and talking and giving us things to analyze rather than just blindly shooting into a room with a shotgun. I rather start the blind shoot into this small room with a shotgun. We are not getting analysis going too far away day one. Picking the right guy at the right time is picking a dead weight at first. How can you possibly say this? The game literally just started, and we have 48 hours to scumhunt. Again, I am going to say, there is no reason to dismiss the idea of finding a lynch candidate Day 1. You must understand. In order to make sure that people are active, we have to decide early that we going to punish people who are inactive. This way, people are going to be warned and hopefully people won't be inactive. Best case scenario we won't have to lynch an inactive person in the first place since everyone will contribute to the town. I notice you avoided discussion on my 'general direction.' Do you support it? Why? Do you now think we should give general directions to blues? I don't not support it (if that makes any sense). I am going under the assumption that our blues are at least halfway competent players, and will be able to think for themselves to use their roles effectively. This may be very naive though. I think general direction right now is fine for now, as long as we don't get too specific, especially Day 1. The last thing I want is for blues to be sniped right away. In this sense, I definitely agree with you that everyone should keep their roles secret for now. Tube Calling out LSB after LSB tried to "Defend" himself from Kav + Show Spoiler +On December 11 2010 14:39 tube wrote:Also, before you defend LSB you should take another look at the manners in which hes been posting Show nested quote +On December 11 2010 12:55 LSB wrote:
Kav, you completely misinterpreted what I did in the game.
Take a look at my posts with Jcarlsoniv. They are not spam, they serve a specific purpose. If you want me to explain, sure... but it's quiet obvious
Secondly, you are taking all of the posts out of context. Most of them are responses to other people. Look at his defense against Kav's [long] list of suspicions. He tries to answer for all of his posts by merely responding that they were all taken out of context. Nor does he even say what "specific purpose" any of those posts had. If those purposes were to answer questions, they had more of an effect of making him look like hes trying hard to come off as town. Though apparently we should see his purposes as "quiet obvious" to the point where he does not have to explain them. (or can't?) Day 2 Coming soon. You should probably also note in your smear campaign that the post you quoted from me wasnt a simple agree. I had another post that you neglected:On December 10 2010 07:46 Amber[LighT] wrote:On December 10 2010 07:42 Oceanic wrote:
Doesn't it say in 1 of the guides posted that lynching an inactive day 1 is not something you should do? Lynching an inactive typically results in lynching an apathetic townie. Everyone should be posting frequently to discuss who should die for day 1. There are no PM's so everything should be out in the open. We should really worry less about how the blues should play. Thinks like role checks won't be overly reliable, and saving people cannot be discussed in the thread. It probably would be a good idea for the electrodes to think about where to place voltorbs and pick up on good scum tells. YES! Your first analysis! Good job! A little late to start though, SCUM.
This is Amber's analysis.
On December 16 2010 14:58 Kavdragon wrote:Show nested quote +On December 16 2010 10:39 d3_crescentia wrote:On December 16 2010 10:35 LSB wrote:
If I die, check out Shocky, D3, and Brocket I'm pretty sure I'm not TR. The other two might be worth a look though. Spam. But true.
On December 16 2010 12:36 d3_crescentia wrote:
I took the fourth hit.
This confirms nothing. Mafia could have stacked hits, and then had you claim to take a hit. It’s an interesting claim though.
On December 16 2010 12:49 d3_crescentia wrote:
No more FoS. At this rate the discussion isn't going to get anywhere if we just keep pointing FoS at each other and do NOTHING with our votes. My current candidates to consider for TR, in no particular order, are:
DCLXVI
Infundibulum
Kavdragon
Brownbear
Wheren’t you just complaining to DrH that there wasn’t enough FoS to analyse?[/QUOTE] If you read all my posts together like that, sure. But an entire night cycle had passed without adequate discussion of the vote lists, and so more pressure is needed for people to speak up.
On December 16 2010 14:58 Kavdragon wrote:Show nested quote +On December 16 2010 12:58 d3_crescentia wrote:On December 16 2010 12:49 DCLXVI wrote:On December 16 2010 10:19 d3_crescentia wrote:On December 16 2010 03:28 DCLXVI wrote:On December 15 2010 22:49 d3_crescentia wrote:
I don't pretend I'm good at analysis; in fact I'm probably trash terrible at it. Shortened because I have to go to work soon -_-
Here's what I noticed about the Zeks list in particular:
- Much of the voting comes from Gabriel's early game analysis of Zeks. While Gabriel himself could be whatever, at least one of his supporters IS scum. Let's work on analyzing Gabriel and his early-game followers.
- The discussion between DCLXVI and chaoser wrt to Kenpachi is particularly telling. Chaoser's defense is along the lines of "Kenpachi just posts that way" while DCLXVI's responses are "yeah but if he WERE mafia it'd be so easy for him to hide!" Something about this just doesn't strike me as particularly innocent on DCLXVI's part, as he seems to be posting an unnecessary defense of himself when Kenpachi died, and a lot of "we should do/have done X" statements recently. His vote for zeks isn't particularly well-justified; in fact it's a bit of a 180-degree turn as he suddenly shifted from "Kenpachi is scum" to "scum must have bandwagoned Kenpachi in the end to save zeks!" (Post on this sometime tonight as well)
Okay, off to work. Hope that's enough for you guys to chew on for tomorrow. Someone else come up with a night plan? In general, Gabriel might be good to check; DTA/Inf as well; DCLXVI cuz I think so. Medics protect who you can/find most compelling. Might as well pull a shockeyy and start defending myself heavily. Next time I would like to see you quote my posts instead of summarizing them tinted heavily from your perspective. If I truly act scummy then there is no need for you to change what my posts say. I voted for kenpachi because he acted scummy and was useless for the town. I said that the defense "well he normally acts scummy" is a terrible defense and we should still lynch him because he acts scummy. Umm, I flipped and thought zeks was highly likely to be scum because I found out that I was wrong day 1 and kenpachi was green? You never have to revise your views of people when we get more information? I didn't think gabe was red (and still don't) and I really didn't like your last minute bandwagon on shockeyy with lsb and amber. That sort of play just screams scum to me. Okay, I get it. You're just a trash poster, scum or not. WTF? Did you read what I posted? I accuse you of changing the meaning of my posts and you call me a trash poster? How does this have any relevance to what I posted? On December 10 2010 15:09 DCLXVI wrote:
Alright just read the thread. All I have to say is fuck you Team Rocket, Oak is the best character in the game. How did TR even manage to sneak up on him? Oak can tell from halfway around the world when you get on a bike, but he can't see a few clumsy TR members?
Seriously though, I am confused by gabriel. he makes some decent points about hesmyrr looking active but no content and infund's poor logic, but then he supports his points terribly. He attacks everyone who responds to him and then ragequits. Then the people he attacked + brocket vote him. Not sure if brocket is a newbie or is scum jumping on a free bandwagon. I need to read though the thread a few times more to get a clear view of what is going on, but I would like to hear some more posts on why gabriel/brocket/hesmyrr/infund are posting the way they are, not just people jumping on one side or the other. Early in the game - a call for more discussion. This isn't particularly scummy yet. another "trashy" post of course Sure, if you want to look at it that way. On December 16 2010 14:58 Kavdragon wrote:On December 12 2010 03:39 DCLXVI wrote:
Thank you insanious and tree.hugger, I hope to see more people post like that. I don't understand why people are letting Kenpachi off the hook for bad posting. So what if he has a history of being less than stellar for the town. We cannot allow him to spam and distract the town because even if he isn't mafia, this helps the mafia. He is playing in a way that benefits the mafia, so even if he isn't (though I think he is), he is dangerous for the town. I really don't like the defense used by darth and meepak of "oh, well this is just how he normally plays". Townies don't intentionally hurt the town by doing what kenpachi is doing.
I'll hopefully be back in a bit before the vote ends, but I feel safe in putting my vote on Kenpachi. Every vote on him is a vote to clean up the town. Restatement of what tree.hugger/Insanious said; no real contribution of his own. Do you just read the first line of what I post and then ignore the rest? Because that is the only way I can understand what you are talking about. On December 12 2010 15:21 DCLXVI wrote:On December 12 2010 14:44 chaoser wrote:
Guys...for everyone who played Salem...that's just how he plays -_- he was playing the exact same way he did in Salem, if he was mafia there would have been slight differences -_-. No comment. I did my best, I have no regrets Seriously though, I do not regret voting Kenpachi. He was distracting the thread from focusing on possible scum and was posting no relevant information. This does not help the town at all, and we were lucky that he was not a blue. Just because he normally acts scummy does not give him the right to post scummy. It would have been so easy for him to hide behind your terrible defense of him if he was mafia, and we cannot allow that to happen. @Meepak - Why do you want to vote for zeks or gabriel? Do you suspect mafia bandwagoned Kenpachi to save a teammate? Which one of them do you suspect more and why? Please answer these sorts of questions instead of posting accusatory one liners all the time. I was ready to write up a nice long post about the different people who defended kenpachi, but now that he has flipped green I need to rethink my arguments. Sorry for the lack of activity recently, let me sleep and in the morning I'll start pointing some fingers. Post-death justification when one was NOT NEEDED. We all knew Kenpachi was a trash poster in the first place (or at least I did) and that his death would not be missed. No one accused you of anything, so why bother to defend yourself? Because of some inner need to appear innocent at all times, perhaps? NOT NEEDED but asked for, notice I quoted someone who questioned the lynch. I'm sorry for further explaining my rationale behind voting, perhaps next till I will just randomly vote people off a list like you do: On December 14 2010 23:47 d3_crescentia wrote:
##vote: Shockeyy On December 15 2010 05:23 DCLXVI wrote:
With the number of swing votes that happened last time, I think that it is very likely that some scum jumped on the kenpachi bandwagon to save zeks. Not that Gabriel is posting any better, but I think that it is more likely that zeks is scum.
@amber
I don't think we analyzed the night actions enough. We barely covered the possibilities of what happened, and didn't bother to speculate which player was killed by mewtwo. That in itself could prove helpful to finding mewtwo, as well as finding scum connected to the other players who died.
and I loled at one inactive accusing another. And for those of us that have some BRAINS we realized that Zeks fell into the same category of posting as Kenpachi - trash terrible, but nonetheless a waste of a lynch. Also, if you bothered to do any THINKING at all you'd realize that it's in the best interest of Mewtwo to play town-aligned in the early game. Why are you interested in finding Mewtwo unless you were RED and worried about yourself? Maybe if you had some FORESIGHT you could've prepared better for losing mew. Now it will be even harder for us to find mewtwo, especially since people like you try to stop any town discussion like this. Notice the town cannot win with mewtwo alive, so while it might be in M2's best interest to appear townie, the town still needs to kill him. Why are you so scared of us finding mewtwo? Is that your role? On December 15 2010 05:39 DCLXVI wrote:On December 15 2010 05:31 Brocket wrote:
I guess if a detective (alakazam or mew) wants to check me out that could be productive. I'll show up as either a true townie or a gengar pretending to be one. Chansey's honestly should just use their prevention on whoever they want to keep in and if they decide that they themselves are the most valuable then so be it. Give gabe/zeks a scan too if they survive the day vote and future night attacks.
I could be a blue. Or a townie pretending to be a blue. Would it matter too much to the town if I was killed off by mafia? I sort of think of it as taking one for the team so the blues can get a night off.
I could be mafia. I think I'd like to be just a koffing. I wouldn't know who to sleep as a weezing. I talk a lot as you can see but I try to be productive without any hard evidence (then again who does?).
As far as mewtwo is concerned, he's just a wild card that confuses the night attacks and he's more likely to kill townies than mafia the first few nights until our numbers sufficiently dwindle. Sad but true.
tl,dr; Hey guys I'm trying to confuse the town and withhold information but that's ok because I'm town or maybe I'm not but thats fine maybe blues should do what I tell them but maybe not because that could be bad and maybe mewtwo is bad for us now but good later so lets not worry aboutanything. Nice, finally some condescension. Too bad it isn't an actual push for a lynch. If you're not scum you're still being too fucking lazy about this, and if you are - well, that's the perfect level of sneerage to detract from your own posting. Maybe if you had some BRAINS you could've noticed the sarcasm in the post, pointing to the uselessness of brocket's post. I guess things like this are too subtle for players of your caliber. On December 15 2010 15:54 DCLXVI wrote:@LSB While I like your idea of forming up a list of all the inactive/scummy players and then using dt's (or mad H's) on them, I don't think that it is a viable strategy now. A list like that would have to include around 85% of the players. In fact I'll whip one up right now: + Show Spoiler +1. deconduo
2. BrownBear
3. Eiii
4. GGQ
5. LSB
6. DarthThienAn
7. RebirthOfLeGenD (Pikachu, Night 1 Kill)
8. Amber[LighT]
9. dinmsab
10. jcarlsoniv (Pikachu, Night 1 Kill)
11. DCLXVI
12. Ghrur
13. Kenpachi (Pikachu, Day 1 Lynch)
14. Node
15. KtheZ
16. tube
17. chaoser
18. Oceanic
19. Gabriel
20. Insanious
21. Meapak_Ziphh (Pikachu, Night 1 Kill)
22. Shockeyy
23. seRapH
24. Kavdragon
25. tree.hugger (Electrode, Night 1 Kill
26. Infundibulum
27. Pandain
28. Brocket
29. kitaman27
30. d3_crescentia
31. zeks Right now I am trying to get more active, but as far as I see there are about 5 seriously active players. That is why we cannot have the medics self protect like you asked tonight. Night one mafia+M2 took out 3 of the most active players, and I would bet that they will continue that trend tonight. We desperately need every last active player, so unless the medics themselves are high priority targets for the mafia, they should not self protect. I am not trying to open up the medics to be hit, but lets be reasonable. What motive does the mafia have to try to hit random lurking blues over the few active players? Not to mention if they hit mew, they are pretty much screwed. Medics please decide who you want to live and lead our scum hunting tomorrow, Dts follow your gut, same with electrodes. Vets just be tough It would be nice to have some dt's give us information in 2 days (three night checks) so that we know about 1/2 of the alignments with some room for error with millers / GF / fake claims. We could hope for ~2 scum revealed this way, with maybe one fake claimed scum. (all numbers estimated in my head with my assumptions, check yourself) However I think we need to see how desperate our plight is come that time, maybe it will not be necessary then. On the other hand, Double lynching is becoming increasingly necessary. With our multiple bandwagons forming and splitting each vote, it looks like the mafia is having an easy time pulling votes off their team and sending townies to the noose. If we lose to many more townies tonight we won't be able to control the lynch very well in the coming days. We need to take advantage the DL to try and catch back up against the mafia's kills. That is something we seriously need to consider and vote on tomorrow depending on the night kills and the level of town activity come tomorrow morning. I want to see the night kills before I comment on potential scummy players tomorrow. Good night, and make sure you are well prepared for any multiples of trouble. Nice general advice. Doesn't really say much except "Maybe on Day 5 DTs should reveal all they know," not accounting for the fact that the Mafia will target those that the DTs check. Maybe the DTs will check inactive players, but what's to stop the mafia from counterclaiming with their own fake DT and sowing more chaos? There needs to be a better plan than just "in 3 days let's reveal." Of course, I realize that you yourself don't have much confidence in this plan of yours, seeing as how it's just plain terrible for town. Or you might just be TR putting thoughts in our mind. So step up and defend yourself, or I'll be putting my vote on you first thing come Day. Yeah I guess I don't say much besides criticizing LSB's plan and commenting on the double lynch benefits and outline a decent plan for the medics to follow (which they didn't, and now we lost more active townies ). I guess I should post more like you: On December 16 2010 10:39 d3_crescentia wrote:On December 16 2010 10:35 LSB wrote:
If I die, check out Shocky, D3, and Brocket I'm pretty sure I'm not TR. The other two might be worth a look though. And you call my posts trashy. All of my posts at least have a reason behind them, as I, unlike you, don't feel the need to spam to seem active and townie. So in an effort to be a better townie should I go back and summarize your posts however I like, call you an idiot, and then try to start a bandwagon on you? Because that seems like one of the scummiest plans I can think of, but you manage to pull it off and people think you are one of the towniest of us all. Congratulations on returning fire; don't you feel GREAT about yourself now that you've contributed a post that amounts to a "NO U"? I'm sorry, "medics protect who you think you should" isn't telling them anything they don't know already. Post some real content for fuck's sake, because criticism and disagreement means jack shit unless you provide alternatives. If you haven't noticed, I'm trying to get town back on the right track, whereas all you do is whine about how I've mischaracterized you instead of contributing. Go analyze some other people, unless you're too scared to out your scum buddies. Wow. You’ve summed up my comments to you pretty well. People, read it for yourselfs. Vote Scum. Vote D3. Does anyone else see this?(Sorry if I was a bit brief on the last few posts. I’m on a bit of a time crunch.)
I hadn't noticed that latter part about the medics, so I guess I'm just terribad. I think it's fairly obvious, but then again my hypocrisy and blindness to my own poor play has doomed me. At any rate, while I might disagree with the analysis it's good that we're getting more.
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On December 17 2010 02:56 Kavdragon wrote:Show nested quote +On December 17 2010 02:42 LSB wrote:
Consider this question.
What is scummy? What is bad play? In my opinion, Scummy play is play that benefits the Mafia, but not the town. Bad play is play that benefits the Mafia, AND the town. Good play is play that benefits the town, and not mafia. This asks the next question. What benefits the mafia, and Town? Town benefits from good analysis and discussion of suspects, with some emphasis on civility. Mafia benefits from everything that gets in the way of good discussion and analysis. (I.e, Spam, Bashing, etc...) I'd like to hear other's opinions though. Especially yours.
I disagree with your definition of mafia play.
Scummy play is play that COULD benefit the town and does NOT hurt the mafia. I think civility has little to do with this. Beneficial for town is that it leads to mafia. Bad for town is that play that does not. The key point here is that for the most part the mafia have to play a waiting game. Sowing confusion, spammy playing, aggressive finger-pointing are helpful to mafia but aren't TELLS.
I'll give an example: TLMafia XXII, where I *was* mafia and posted with as much civility as possible. It nearly fooled everyone except for Ace. A stronger example from the same game was Incognito, who should be the epitome of strong-town-appearing mafia. The mafia have all the more reason to play like town - mild mannered with civil discussion, etc. so long as none of their own are targeted. Note that every post that the mafia made ambiguously benefits the town, i.e. calmly pointing out players that aren't doing anything or have fallacies in their logic... against all of whom were town. When scum were identified, the rest of the mafia cut their losses.
The problem here is that the town is bad at finding scum, unless pressure causes them to say something suspicious. Ace identified me off the bat in XXII after a stupid slip-up. (Then again, he's Ace, so...)
I don't think calm discussion will get you anywhere without at least some aggression. Rapid aggressive finger-pointing won't be much better, so I'll try to back up my statements with a little more effort.
As it stands, though, it looks like this game will likely be more like TLMXVI, where the town isn't participating actively enough to find scum, and that people that are trying to find scum are only doing so reactively, like DCLXVI. The fact that nothing stands out so far is because people aren't pushing hard enough.
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One more thing, Kavdragon - what are your thoughts on DCLXVI?
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kitaman27
United States9244 Posts
I'm not going to lie, this is starting to get real hard to follow with these huge walls of text. For example, quoting 4 separate blocks of text and replying "Meh." "Okay." "Don't care." and "But true." really takes away from your argument. Highlighting your main ideas, rather than responding to every single comment is definitely appreciated to keep the spam count low.
Also, I would like to remind everyone that we really should push for a double lynch today. I haven't seen a valid argument why this isn't a good idea.
Kavdragon, deconduo, ShoCkeyy all voted without requesting a double lynch and should be pressured to do so.
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EPT
