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On November 24 2009 14:18 MyHeroNoob wrote:
what are "suicide petitions" ?
Exactly what they sound like.
Anyways, a very insightful and interesting post. While I was aware that Koreans are very prideful and nationalistic, I didn't know that netizens carried so much power. Are Korean celebrities so prideful that they allow forum posts they read on the internet to influence how they live there lives? It seems a stark contrast to Western culture, where statements like this have little to no effect on the lives of the people who make them. I feel like I need a better look at how cyberized Koreans actually are.
As for the statement itself, I see no reason for this man to be so heavily criticized. However, I also see nothing wrong with old fashioned slap-stick humor. I don't care what culture it is, it's always fun to watch somebody make a fool out of themselves. Are the antics of these Korean comedians in New York really that different from those of Borat? I don't think so, but then again, I haven't seen the clip yet.
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Insecurities pretty much sum up the Korean attitude towards criticism.
Has there been no mention of the recent 'loser' incident here? I find it disgusting that a girl can be raped on the internet (not to mention get nationwide attention in other media) for saying men under the height of 180 cm are losers on TV, in a nonserious manner at that.
anonymity + sheep mind + insecurities = hate
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51290 Posts
netizens could form a political party and rule korea with an iron fist.
thats how much power they have over one country.
who would have thought a single piece of technology (internet) manages to pretty much control a country of 40m+ people.
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NeverGG
United Kingdom5399 Posts
On November 24 2009 14:31 blue_arrow wrote:basically an online petition asking for an individual to go commit suicide in public it's a little bit on the sick end imo the former leader of 2pm got a couple tens of thousands of signatures if i remember correctly
No, Jaebeom's suicide petition got an initial figure of 3,000 signatures and his 'come back' petition got in excess of 70k in a shorter amount of time as far as I'm aware. Also the korean 'Hottest' (the name for people who support 2pm.) fans are still protesting with posters/origami roses/flash mobs and other activities around the world. The Korean protests have been the most visible of course, but there have also been protests from America, other parts of Asia and Europe. I think it really hit home how much influence the Korean netizens have when Jaebeom suddenly fled Korea and is now still refusing to go public about the aftermath of leaving. A lot of them (mainly the young girls who are 2pm 'fans') realized how idiotic they'd been. However, so far their efforts to get him to come back have failed. (I think it basically serves them right.)
2pm has also come back with their first album as a 6 member group. JYP (their company manager.) has expressed support for Jaebeom returning, but has not made his stance clear upon whether it will ever happen. The 2pm members have also left support messages for Jaebeom in the 'thanks to' section of their album packaging and also during their award acceptance speech at the MAMA awards only a couple of days ago.
(I know way too much about this lol...)
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On November 24 2009 14:58 NeverGG wrote:Show nested quote +On November 24 2009 14:31 blue_arrow wrote:On November 24 2009 14:18 MyHeroNoob wrote:
what are "suicide petitions" ? basically an online petition asking for an individual to go commit suicide in public it's a little bit on the sick end imo the former leader of 2pm got a couple tens of thousands of signatures if i remember correctly No, Jaebeom's suicide petition got an initial figure of 3,000 signatures and his 'come back' petition got in excess of 70k in a shorter amount of time as far as I'm aware. Also the korean 'Hottest' (the name for people who support 2pm.) fans are still protesting with posters/origami roses/flash mobs and other activities around the world. The Korean protests have been the most visible of course, but there have also been protests from America, other parts of Asia and Europe. I think it really hit home how much influence the Korean netizens have when Jaebeom suddenly fled Korea and is now still refusing to go public about the aftermath of leaving. A lot of them (mainly the young girls who are 2pm 'fans') realized how idiotic they'd been. However, so far their efforts to get him to come back have failed. (I think it basically serves them right.) 2pm has also come back with their first album as a 6 member group. JYP (their company manager.) has expressed support for Jaebeom returning, but has not made his stance clear upon whether it will ever happen. The 2pm members have also left support messages for Jaebeom in the 'thanks to' section of their album packaging and also during their award acceptance speech at the MAMA awards only a couple of days ago. (I know way too much about this lol...)
oh.. that's good to hear, guess i mixed up the two
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I hate to generalize but I fell out of love with Korea for a while now. Maybe 1-2 years ago. It's the way that Korean people think that make me very... bitter. I know that every society has their own faults and North America is far from perfect and I know that there is a great push for some people to conform but there are WAVES of people who are strive for imperfection rather than perfection.
In North America, and specifically Toronto, where I am from, people I meet embrace imperfection and it doesn't matter if you're ugly, hot, tall, short, rich or poor, you can appreciate what you have. Once again, I'm not saying that all North Americans are like this but there are people who DO believe in imperfection.
But with Korean people, there is an image that pop culture has been tattooed into their minds. You must be tall, rich, good looking, smart and well-connected... period. Hanging out with Koreans made me the most insecure guy in the world. I always had to worry about fashion, how much money I had, how nice my house was, what kinda girlfriend I had, how tall I was, etc.
Once I stopped hanging out with Koreans, and I'm not talking about the 4 same guys kinda thing, I mean church, volunteer groups, high school and university Koreans, so I've met a lot of different people. But once I stopped all of that and just embraced anything that came to me and I was slowly happier with what I had. I didn't care if I was short or poor or ugly. I just didn't care. And I see some old Korean friends of mine contemplating whether they should get leg surgery or not to become taller and shit, I'm just like wtf?
I don't know. Something is wrong with Korean pop culture. Not Korean culture in general. But pop culture is having too much influence. I know North America has the same problem but why is it that there is so many people who are willing to go against it and they don't give a shit about who complains. People in Korea should have the freedom to not follow this pop culture bullshit without having their balls chopped off.
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On November 24 2009 13:31 lilsusie wrote:
On the flipside, because of things like this, Korea has a greater sense of family and respect for elders and pride of culture. I agree with the poster above me - having NO national pride is just as bad. You lose identity.
I'm Me, and I'm Canadian. 34,000,000 other people are Canadian, but only I am Me. If I only said I am Canadian, it would be very hard to find Me.
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United States32997 Posts
caaaaaaal moooltkeeee~~
please :D
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is this why a lot of asian americans feel the need to put "AzN" in all of their screen names?
lol, sorry if that sounded offensive. i've always been curious though.
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On November 24 2009 13:31 lilsusie wrote:
I agree with the poster above me - having NO national pride is just as bad. You lose identity.
Could you and the other people that said similar things please explain why you think having no national pride is a bad thing? Because I think identifying yourself with what YOU are and with what YOU have achieved makes for a purer and more distinct identity than identifying yourself with a nation. What influence did i have on Germany's history? None, so why should i feel proud about anything Germany has achieved? Maybe I can be proud of Germany when I am an old man, because then I might have influenced Germany a tiny bit but feeling proud of Germany right now feels like taking credit for something I had absolutely no influence in.
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On November 24 2009 15:01 jjun212 wrote:
I hate to generalize but I fell out of love with Korea for a while now. Maybe 1-2 years ago. It's the way that Korean people think that make me very... bitter. I know that every society has their own faults and North America is far from perfect and I know that there is a great push for some people to conform but there are WAVES of people who are strive for imperfection rather than perfection.
In North America, and specifically Toronto, where I am from, people I meet embrace imperfection and it doesn't matter if you're ugly, hot, tall, short, rich or poor, you can appreciate what you have. Once again, I'm not saying that all North Americans are like this but there are people who DO believe in imperfection.
But with Korean people, there is an image that pop culture has been tattooed into their minds. You must be tall, rich, good looking, smart and well-connected... period. Hanging out with Koreans made me the most insecure guy in the world. I always had to worry about fashion, how much money I had, how nice my house was, what kinda girlfriend I had, how tall I was, etc.
Once I stopped hanging out with Koreans, and I'm not talking about the 4 same guys kinda thing, I mean church, volunteer groups, high school and university Koreans, so I've met a lot of different people. But once I stopped all of that and just embraced anything that came to me and I was slowly happier with what I had. I didn't care if I was short or poor or ugly. I just didn't care. And I see some old Korean friends of mine contemplating whether they should get leg surgery or not to become taller and shit, I'm just like wtf?
I don't know. Something is wrong with Korean pop culture. Not Korean culture in general. But pop culture is having too much influence. I know North America has the same problem but why is it that there is so many people who are willing to go against it and they don't give a shit about who complains. People in Korea should have the freedom to not follow this pop culture bullshit without having their balls chopped off.
I'm glad that you are feeling better about yourself now. But I don't really see how you can justify your claim that something is wrong with Korean pop culture. It seems like you mean something along the lines of "The objects of Korean pop-culture desire are bad." And I just don't know what standard you are using to say that some desires are good and some desires are bad. I can totally see you saying the standards Kpopculture uses make you feel bad -- and that is a good reason not to hang out with people that value those things. But I don't see how that gets you to your criticism.
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On November 24 2009 16:00 lOvOlUNiMEDiA wrote:Show nested quote +On November 24 2009 15:01 jjun212 wrote:
I hate to generalize but I fell out of love with Korea for a while now. Maybe 1-2 years ago. It's the way that Korean people think that make me very... bitter. I know that every society has their own faults and North America is far from perfect and I know that there is a great push for some people to conform but there are WAVES of people who are strive for imperfection rather than perfection.
In North America, and specifically Toronto, where I am from, people I meet embrace imperfection and it doesn't matter if you're ugly, hot, tall, short, rich or poor, you can appreciate what you have. Once again, I'm not saying that all North Americans are like this but there are people who DO believe in imperfection.
But with Korean people, there is an image that pop culture has been tattooed into their minds. You must be tall, rich, good looking, smart and well-connected... period. Hanging out with Koreans made me the most insecure guy in the world. I always had to worry about fashion, how much money I had, how nice my house was, what kinda girlfriend I had, how tall I was, etc.
Once I stopped hanging out with Koreans, and I'm not talking about the 4 same guys kinda thing, I mean church, volunteer groups, high school and university Koreans, so I've met a lot of different people. But once I stopped all of that and just embraced anything that came to me and I was slowly happier with what I had. I didn't care if I was short or poor or ugly. I just didn't care. And I see some old Korean friends of mine contemplating whether they should get leg surgery or not to become taller and shit, I'm just like wtf?
I don't know. Something is wrong with Korean pop culture. Not Korean culture in general. But pop culture is having too much influence. I know North America has the same problem but why is it that there is so many people who are willing to go against it and they don't give a shit about who complains. People in Korea should have the freedom to not follow this pop culture bullshit without having their balls chopped off. I'm glad that you are feeling better about yourself now. But I don't really see how you can justify your claim that something is wrong with Korean pop culture. It seems like you mean something along the lines of "The objects of Korean pop-culture desire are bad." And I just don't know what standard you are using to say that some desires are good and some desires are bad. I can totally see you saying the standards Kpopculture uses make you feel bad -- and that is a good reason not to hang out with people that value those things. But I don't see how that gets you to your criticism.
I'm sorry. I guess what I was basically trying to say was that, although I have no PhD evidence on what I'm about to state, I believe that Korean pop culture is creating a standard on a mass majority of young Koreans and that is affecting how they view the people around them. Creating insecurities and what not.
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On November 24 2009 13:02 beefhamburger wrote:Many artists produce mini-albums because they are contracted by their entertainment industry to produce multiple albums per year, every year. You will not be able to produce a full album in that short time frame consistently. And since gross income from sales is a mere fraction of what other countries like the US amount to, they HAVE to rely on mass releases in order to turn a profit. For that reason, they have to squeeze as much quality into a mini-album as they can in whatever time they are given. You might want to expand to expand your horizons outside of what akp tells you. PLENTY of artists release full length albums all the time, even the "hot artists." Show nested quote +Mini album means you have 1 song (at most 2) that are designed to top the charts and 3-4 other trash songs nobody cares about. That's great because instead of 10 trash songs you now only have to produce 4 to make an album. I don't see how this is different from any other country in the world. In every country, even Germany, albums consists of a few title tracks while the others are obviously subpar. Yes I'm sure there are good amount of exceptions (even though it is all subjective) but you can't just pin something like that to just Korea and play it off as it not being true anywhere else in the world.
Yeah that's all true. But the mini-album thing was just one tiny example I picked because it came to mind. It doesn't really matter and doesn't change my overall point.
On November 24 2009 12:57 BlackJack wrote:
How is this K-pop dude's post any less about Korean pride than the netziens who flame him for dissing a Korean group? He's ranting about the sketch comedy group going to America and ruining Korea's image and having white people mock Korea and making it an embarassment to be Korean.
If that isn't Korean pride I don't know what is. Yet you agree with him while the same time bashing people with national pride. Seems a bit contradictory to me.
I think there's as difference and it's an important difference. As I said earlier I don't think having a healthy amount of national pride is a bad thing, it can be productive and constructive. I'm just saying this blind pride that many Koreans exhibit so religiously, that's a bad thing. If there's something wrong in your country, why not just admit it? There are reasons why things are like they are in Korea, lilsusie's and Optical Shot's posts explain that very well and I agree. But it's not about blaming anyone, it should be about reflecting, understanding and ultimately doing something to make it better.
Having your right to express your opinion restricted by law is obviously a bad thing. In Korea it's not restricted by law, but by culture and social pressure and that's just as bad. There are so many problems I didn't mention like the totally messed up educational system, Korea's two-faced stance towards sex/pornography, racial discrimination, work conditions, gender equality, the outdated seniority system (more power/rights because of your age rather than your accomplishments). All those problems have complicated reasons and have developed over time, I know, but I'm missing the public awareness of these issues. Instead everyone complements themselves how it's great that Korea rose up from nothing to one of Asia's leading countries and how the Korean Wave takes the world by storm. Of course I am overgeneralizing and it's not like Korea completely ignores these issues, just exaggerating to make my point clear.
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On November 24 2009 15:18 Waxangel wrote:
caaaaaaal moooltkeeee~~
please :D
I pmed him and i'm waiting for his analysis :p
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On November 24 2009 14:34 Athos wrote:Exactly what they sound like. Anyways, a very insightful and interesting post. While I was aware that Koreans are very prideful and nationalistic, I didn't know that netizens carried so much power. Are Korean celebrities so prideful that they allow forum posts they read on the internet to influence how they live there lives? It seems a stark contrast to Western culture, where statements like this have little to no effect on the lives of the people who make them. I feel like I need a better look at how cyberized Koreans actually are. As for the statement itself, I see no reason for this man to be so heavily criticized. However, I also see nothing wrong with old fashioned slap-stick humor. I don't care what culture it is, it's always fun to watch somebody make a fool out of themselves. Are the antics of these Korean comedians in New York really that different from those of Borat? I don't think so, but then again, I haven't seen the clip yet.
There's nothing wrong with good old fashioned slap-stick and I like Korean variety shows (watch them every week). It's just that sometimes when I'm amused about them talking about their "scandals" or when I like a kpop song or when I think some random girl group member is cute, I get this bad feeling that I'm feeding the fire.
Watch Korean TV and you'll notice they have tons of shows promoting Korea in every way possible. Going around the country showing the beauty of the scenery, the warmth of the people, the amazing local food, the modernity of the cities, the cutting edge technology, their respect for the elderly and tradition. They have festivals to raise national pride (I love Korea festival for example), after broadcasting hours are over the channels play the national anthem, they praise the Hangul alphabet as if its the greatest achievement in the history of mankind. They are proud that their girls are the prettiest, they praise lower class jobs in order to show that also the little man is a part of what makes the motherland so great.
I'm not saying all of this is bad. In Germany, TV always seems to be about laughing at the stupidity of your fellow citizens. Germany really could use some of these measure to increase national spirit. The thing is, Korea seems to be completely blinded by all of this. I mean Korea has had amazing development in the past 50 years, but everything comes with a price. But that's not even the problem, every country has its issues, many of them worse than Korea. But it won't get any better if you outlaw everyone who mentions these problems, if you're so into keeping up the facade that you only show kindergarten shows on TV, what do you expect to happen? You can do your politics in the background but its the people who need to realize whats happening.
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Away with all nationalism~~ not just Korean but nationalism in general...big contributor to the 20th century's unhappiness (nationalism influenced World War I, World War II, and numerous other conflicts...)
I hope for the day when the biggest group identity is individual interest group (like TL!!!), not nation...
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There are a lot of problems with Korean society right now. I don't think I could ever really live there anytime soon even if I do like going to Korea.
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Well, I'm Japanese/Korean so I find myself always looking at an awkward situation :/
My friend (Japanese) points out that there're two movements in Korea. The first is that the Japanese Pokke was "stolen" about two years after it was established in Japan, and now the Koreans are selling their derivative (forget what it's called) and calling it the "real" one, despite apparent (I have no idea, never bothered looking, so I'd take his statement with a grain of salt, too) documentation proving the Japanese one came first. Plus I notice most Korean stores in my area sell Pokke, instead of the Korean one, too, so...
Also the Koreans are trying to push for an olympic sport, which is so blatantly a rip off of kendo. But they're calling it a Korean thing, and actually even defending it, arguing that samurai and bushido come from Korea (wtf).
Personally I find it preposterous that Korea's trying to pull this stuff (presumably out of national pride/hatred of Japan), while at the same I find it bizarre Japan's not really defending themselves about this stuff either. I dunno, weird stuff going on.
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Canada9720 Posts
On November 24 2009 22:13 thedeadhaji wrote:I fear that voicing my thoughts on this topic will spark yet another e-drama episode 
lol
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EPT
