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You may or may not know the Korean Hip-Hop group Epik High. Well, they're pretty popular in Korea. Now, one of the band members has a brother who lives in the US and that brother posted something in response to a recent episode of Infinity Challenge (very popular saturday evening variety show) that was filmed in NYC. His statements caused somwhat of a national uproar.
Here's what he had to say:
"I did have my worries when I heard that the Infinity Challenge members were coming to New York... and I totally felt like dying from the embarrassment while watching.
The internet is being all crazy now, saying how 'our Korean humor worked in New York too'.
ARE YOU FUCKING SERIOUS?
They were ignored like dogs on the streets from the New Yorkers for mumbling gibberish and not even being able to speak a word. They were also treated like retards at a pizza place by being thrown a random slice to eat.
Also, street casting?? Internet radio?? The one who calls himself the "Nation's MC" dances like a grasshopper inside a crappy warehouse with a green screen those 20 year old white boys call a 'studio'. Was it just me or did those dumb-looking white boys make him a complete fool? I wonder what those white boys were thinking (Actually never mind. Even if they said it out loud, the Koreans wouldn't have understood). They perhaps thought, 'WHAT THE FUCK ARE THESE RETARDS DOING??'
I know you guys are being 'real' for entertainment, but keep the low-quality comedy in Korea. Please, ok? You guys make millions per year? Did you really have to go overseas and especially the capital of the world, New York City to be bunch of jackasses? MBC sure knows how to put themselves on the top.
To MBC who produced this piece of crap and those crowd of reporters who publicized this shameful event as if it's something we need to be proud of... Of course, this episode is just perfect for those Koreans who think this low-quality comedy is just so funny.
Since when was it so humiliating to be a part of our Korean race?
Get rid of the 'food' and why not tell those New Yorkers with your gibberish that Dokdo1 is our land? You guys act like you can attack Japan any day when you guys are the ones who copy their shit?"
When I first read that I thought FINALLY someone who will be heard says something. Sure, he was harsh and exaggerated, but if he had said it in a nice and friendly manner, no one would have noticed.
Now my main point is not the content of that guy's post, it's the (once again) ridiculous response of Korea's netizens. The guy is getting flamed to death, everyone is in shock, I mean, how does someone dare to criticize Korea?! The group Epik High gets negative press so in order to not ruin his brother's career, the guy already posted an explanation and an apology. (explanation / apology)
Maybe it's my German upbringing but I just can't deal with this so called Korean pride. In this respect Korea and Germany are just complete opposites. History has taught Germans that it's always good to question your country, to criticize if necessary, to never blindly follow the mass, to not racially or otherwise discriminate. In my opinion Germans overdo this to a point that they don't have any real national identity, I guess there is some sort of national pride, but hey, we (yeah we, German pride yo) can't show it for obvious reasons. If some famous German guy's brother had said something like that guy above, NOONE in Germany would have even remotely cared. On the contrary, lots of people might even have agreed and said yeah, Germany sucks or something of that sort. I'm not(!) trying to say Germany is better than Korea or something like that, just saying they're opposite extremes in this matter.
There was this recent incident where the US-born leader of a famous Korean boy-band had to leave the country because Netizens had found old myspace entries of him saying that Korea sucks. Of course, netizens went crazy and he basically got kicked out of the country. They even had a suicide petition for him, with several thousand people signing. I mean WTF?!
I don't think having a healthy amount of national pride is a bad thing, but this is just ridiculous and it's just the tip of the iceberg. I personally like Infinity Challenge and other Korean shows and I even like some K-Pop songs, but hey let's be honest, most of it and the industry in general is just TRASH. I know cultures are different and who am I to decide what's trash and what's not but let's take a look at how the Korean entertainment industry works. Everywhere in the world the pop-music industry is a shiny plastic world, Korea is no different but takes it to a whole new level. Like everywhere else, rather than the music, the industry tries to sell an image, a brand. Well in Korea they don't even pretend that it's about the music anymore. Hot artists don't release albums anymore, they release mini-albums! Mini album means you have 1 song (at most 2) that are designed to top the charts and 3-4 other trash songs nobody cares about. That's great because instead of 10 trash songs you now only have to produce 4 to make an album. Now the hit song has a certain concept, look and dance going along with it and the production company pays the broadcasting stations to promote the song and group nonstop so everyone and their mother knows about the song. People who have been to Korea will probably have experienced this, it's coming from EVERYWHERE, on the street, on tv, in the supermarket, ringtones. Now this lasts for as long as they can milk money out of it, then the group rests to start a comeback (yeah they call it comeback) with a new mini-album 5 months later.
The disturbing thing is, the whole system is so established, they don’t even pretend anymore at all. They can even joke about it on a meta level. On any given TV show in Korea you’ll find conversations like these:
“Hey admit it, you had plastic surgery to have more success“
“Well yes, just a little…”
“Haha, don’t worry, me too. We all did eh?”
“Hehe yes, I had surgery at 3 places”
“Me 4!”
“Haha!”
“Hehe!”
I mean it’s great they’re open and all. But first of all, they have no other choice, because zealot netizens would find out anyway. And secondly it’s just an accepted fact that you have to be pretty (or extremely ugly) in order to achieve anything. Everyone knows it’s the way it works but I know no other country in the world that is so obsessed with prettiness – and DOES NOT EVEN THINK IT’S A BAD THING. Maybe they’re just so advanced and the whole world will turn out like that at some point, but I certainly hope not.
The most pitiful of the bunch are the string puppets, idols as they call them, who perform the songs. They’re hardworking people, some of them really talented, but they just get screwed over. The three big production companies all have their idol training camps where young guys and girls get trained to be ‘stars’. If they’re lucky they get picked for some band after a few years of training, they’ll have their window of fame and well, I guess by then they’ll be brainwashed enough to not even hate the songs they have to perform and be disgusted by the act they have to put up. But again, Koreans are very open about this. On TV shows if groups introduce themselves they’ll say something like, I’m xxx and I’m in charge of being cute, I’m xxx and I’m in charge of being pretty, I’m xxx and I’m in charge of being edgy, etc. Why not just openly say that you were put together to milk the money out of the poor kids who buy that crap. I mean, that’s how pop music works everywhere, but in Korea it’s just so extreme in every way. The idols live in dorm like apartments, much like progamer houses, don’t even have their own rooms, get a little spending money every week and have to work really hard. If you misstep only once, your career can be over. That pressure must be unbearable, just look at all the suicides among Korean celebrities.
Now Korean entertainment in general has this problem. They can't do any insightful witty jokes because they have to be extremely careful what they say. Political jokes are an absolute taboo. There's no evening talk show like Leno, O'Brian and all those others, because jokes like that just don't work in Korea. One ambiguous statement and you got your army of haters just waiting to massacre you. So what to do? There's only one option left, we jump around like 5 year old idiots, do some grimaces and there we have our comedy. They also love hinting at those bad bad things you do in the bedroom. But only after you’re married of course. The idol gets kissed on the cheek! Who dares kiss my idol? Let’s have a suicide petition. Just look at the red light districts in Seoul, then you’ll be, yeah… right.
Well this kind of got longer than originally planned. There’s much more to say but it’s all just different facets of the same thing. Hope I didn’t offend anyone. It is not my intention to blame or attack individuals, but the whole situation is just a mess.
 
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is awesome32263 Posts
Yeah I have been wondering about this a little when watching Kpop on MBC in the ads they put between games or ads for other shows. I just guessed it was because MBC Game was aimed at kids and that it wouldnt be as bad in other channels...
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S. Korean culture has rude, arrogant kitschy pop-stars. German culture...WWI, WWII, Holocaust. So, just like the Germans have needed some time to learn, give the S. Koreans some time to learn -- some time to reach the critical, self-reflective state of mind you Germans have reached.
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How is this K-pop dude's post any less about Korean pride than the netziens who flame him for dissing a Korean group? He's ranting about the sketch comedy group going to America and ruining Korea's image and having white people mock Korea and making it an embarassment to be Korean.
If that isn't Korean pride I don't know what is. Yet you agree with him while the same time bashing people with national pride. Seems a bit contradictory to me.
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Many artists produce mini-albums because they are contracted by their entertainment industry to produce multiple albums per year, every year. You will not be able to produce a full album in that short time frame consistently. And since gross income from sales is a mere fraction of what other countries like the US amount to, they HAVE to rely on mass releases in order to turn a profit. For that reason, they have to squeeze as much quality into a mini-album as they can in whatever time they are given.
Hot artists don't release albums anymore, they release mini-albums!
You might want to expand to expand your horizons outside of what akp tells you. PLENTY of artists release full length albums all the time, even the "hot artists."
Mini album means you have 1 song (at most 2) that are designed to top the charts and 3-4 other trash songs nobody cares about. That's great because instead of 10 trash songs you now only have to produce 4 to make an album.
I don't see how this is different from any other country in the world. In every country, even Germany, albums consists of a few title tracks while the others are obviously subpar. Yes I'm sure there are good amount of exceptions (even though it is all subjective) but you can't just pin something like that to just Korea and play it off as it not being true anywhere else in the world.
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NeverGG
United Kingdom5399 Posts
Tbh these days nothing shocks me in relation to the power of Korea's netizens. The double-standard exhibited by them in the case of Park Jaebeom was painful to watch even as an 'outsider.' As soon as he threatened the perfect image of Korea he was no longer regarded as a Korean, but as an American (and someone to whom it was perfectly acceptable to direct a horrific suicide petition.) I'm not surprised he left after seeing how quickly his so-called fans and others could turn upon him.
When people start talking to me about Dokdo and other issues of Korean nationalism my eyes glaze over and it's time to start planning what's for dinner tomorrow night. I can understand a degree of patriotism, but the long-standing grudges that some people seem to hold (in other countries aside from Korea as well.) baffle me. 90-100% of the people involved in these incidents are dead so what good does it do to keep hating their descendants who weren't even born at the time?
Korea has fantastic culinary culture, beautiful historical architecture and artifacts and an economy that has begun to flourish in modern times. I just wish some people here would stop trying so desperately to prove that korea is a faultless and perfect nation. Nowhere in the world can lay claim to such a title.
By disputing trivial matters and having dramas over the smallest things (even in the world of Kpop and entertainment which is rife with this kind of personal dissection just as much as any of the British or American entertainment magazines and sometimes even to a much more severe degree) Korea is probably not promoting the image it might want to or helping its constant bids for globalisation and acceptance in the modern world.
This is only my opinion btw ^^ I just get sick of listening to the latest scandal over nothing or (a select and often completely random) people telling me about how terrible the rest of the world is compared to Korea. It's impossible to deny that awful things happened to the Korean people, but the past is not something we can change - certain people and organizations need to look to the future.
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real good post, 5 stars
national pride isnt a bad thing, germany was a solid example. Becoming a bland, tasteless nation without pride is another nightmare
fanboyism can get ugly, but i would take it over indifference any day. In fact some of those celebrities get extra media attention thanks to those incidents. Korea is very traditional and this is a part of its culture, not something that can be changed easily
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korean netizens are some of the most rabid fans in the world. Things like this coming from them aren't really that surprising considering Korean culture is just ridiculously patriotic. They try their hardest to convince themselves that their country is perfect and until they get over that it's going to be a major hurdle in social development.
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T.O.P.
Hong Kong4685 Posts
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the brother seems insecure
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3861 Posts
Korea is even more so (THIS IS MY OPINION) because over the years, we're a nation that's been stomped on and shit on. Only within the last 50-60 years has Korea actually BEEN anything notable in the history of the world. Of course they are going to be prideful as a nation; unfortunately they kind of go overboard with it. The communal, mass societal thinking thing is just what we are used to - there is almost nothing individualistic or independent about Korea's thinking. But that's just how this culture is.
Korea is a 15 year old boy in a 40 year old man's body. As much as the country has developed, the mindset hasn't changed or "grown up" to match the physical aspects. The grudges held over Japan or whatever... is all because of that collectivist mind again - children told by parents and grandparents... and the children believing that they can do something about it for the greater good of their families.
On the flipside, because of things like this, Korea has a greater sense of family and respect for elders and pride of culture. I agree with the poster above me - having NO national pride is just as bad. You lose identity.
I dunno where I'm going with this.
BOO K-POP!! (I miss old school bands like Roora, DJ Doc, Seotaiji and Boys...) but if you look hard enough, the musicians are there, the rock lovers are there, the indie bands are there. We're just a very external, aesthetic culture right now, because all Korea cares about is looking good to the rest of the world. So not to get stomped on or shit on again.
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This made me remember Japanese (female?) baseball fans who decided to mock Koreans and came to Korea with signs telling how their team owned Korean team... and they were like greeted with smiles
I agree with zulu.
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In my experience, this extreme nationalism isn't just for Korea, but other Asian countries as well. China and HK (yes I know they're technically the same country but they have very different cultures) both "suffer?" from overactive national pride and a tremendous taste for scandal.
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good read and I agree that koreans can be pretty obsessed with image and I say this as a korean.
I didnt know anything about this kpop thing or the netizens and I am kinda ashamed..or more indifferent actually. I've realized growing up that having a close attachment to the 'motherland' is kind of trivial when I've never lived there. I also concluded that koreans are no less flawed than anyone else - yes americans too.
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On November 24 2009 13:31 lilsusie wrote:
Korea is even more so (THIS IS MY OPINION) because over the years, we're a nation that's been stomped on and shit on. Only within the last 50-60 years has Korea actually BEEN anything notable in the history of the world. Of course they are going to be prideful as a nation; unfortunately they kind of go overboard with it. The communal, mass societal thinking thing is just what we are used to - there is almost nothing individualistic or independent about Korea's thinking. But that's just how this culture is.
careful of the netizens.
and good point.
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This is basically the same thing as Asian Americans berating FOBs. An exaggerated feeling of shame stemming from whatever insecurities one contains towards his native culture in the face of different cultures. If the brother realized no new yorker gave a shit about how those Koreans acted which I'm sure was what happened, instead of conjuring up some fantastic mass of condescending foreigners, which, while I'm no psychologist, seems to actually fit his own attitude rather than that of the "white boys," he wouldn't feel the need to write an angry post addressing what he interprets to be "Korean Pride," but rather just his own insecurities and failures at adjusting to a new culture.
I don't know the show or the context behind the incident it but I really can't see what they did to be an example of korean pride.
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what are "suicide petitions" ?
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That brother seems to have a rather cynical eye (or a pair of them) towards viewing the American reactions to the Korean show. I mean, it is embarrassing that those "top comedians" from Korea couldn't string together a decent sentence in English, and it is something that the nation should and is striving to improve upon (English is being taught more rigorously in public school curriculum). Still, so many of those rants in that dude's rant seems to have such extreme interpretations on minor events.
He (that brother) could just be another one of Korea's super-troll-netizen, ravaging the virtual space with extremist views and short-thought statements that even he would probably regret and be ashamed of in a day or two. As people pointed out above, Korea developed very quickly through the late 1900's and early 2000's, evolving from an ex-colony 3rd world nation in 1945 to "one of the leaders" in tech (and e-sports, of course!) and manufacturing nowadays. This massive rise of position and power, in pair with the rapid expansion of the virtual network (internet, as we call it) gave citizens easy access and anonymity online to express their (rather spontaneous, on-the-spur kind) emotions. In this online group is anywhere from 50+ year old, old-school nationalists who grew up through the hard times and the changing times, and also 10-15 year olds, fresh and blind, ignorant but brave. Of these people, there are of course the "better netizens" who have some sense of control and manner, but the extremists get the headlines and hot issues.
One case that should be brought up is the case of Park Jae Bum, former (and still, IMO) leader of 2PM, a k-pop male group. He left negative comments about Korea a few years ago (before his debut), made his debut about a year ago, and then some malicious person decided to dig up that old post he made years ago, interpret/translate it with a strong bias towards negativity, and then publish it on the internet. It caught on like fire, netizens burning him down, leaving daring comments (some said he should suicide). PJB immediately acknowledged his mistake, apologized publicly, but due to constant pressure and negative media, he was pretty much forced to quit his career and escape back to USA. Once he left, the netizens turned around 180 degrees, criticizing each other for being too harsh and stubborn.
What can we learn from it? Korean netizens are scary? Perhaps. But this is just a consequence of rapid growth, retained nationalism, and so on. I personally think that Koreans (including myself) have a great sense of national pride, but it often blinds us into making quick judgments and unintentionally extreme remarks. It probably trickles down from the never-ending strife within the political parties in Korea (that's another huge topic to explore which doesn't need further details here).
I just realized I didn't really make a solid point in my block of text...
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On November 24 2009 14:18 MyHeroNoob wrote:
what are "suicide petitions" ?
basically an online petition asking for an individual to go commit suicide in public
it's a little bit on the sick end imo
the former leader of 2pm got a couple tens of thousands of signatures if i remember correctly
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Hong Kong20321 Posts
On November 24 2009 13:43 meeple wrote:
In my experience, this extreme nationalism isn't just for Korea, but other Asian countries as well. China and HK (yes I know they're technically the same country but they have very different cultures) both "suffer?" from overactive national pride and a tremendous taste for scandal.
oh yea, dont really know about china but here everyone loves scandal...but in no way are hk ppl as rabid and crazy as korean people... seriously the image of korean netizens is just like O___________O
hk ppl just wanna make money and w/e lol
very intesrseting read snowbird!
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EPT
