EPTWhich non-Korean pros are the best?
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SiarX
133 Posts
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FlaShFTW
United States10354 Posts
For non-Asian, it would be Bonyth followed closely by Dewalt. Bonyth just has this ever so slight advantage over Dewalt. | ||
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RJBTVYOUTUBE
Netherlands1201 Posts
On January 03 2025 03:32 FlaShFTW wrote: Mihu is really damn good right now, he's won a handful of the past few BSLs. There's also XiaoShuai who has one the last 2 Chinese Starleagues, beating Mihu. For non-Asian, it would be Bonyth followed closely by Dewalt. Bonyth just has this ever so slight advantage over Dewalt. in pvz pvt i take dewalt over bonyth. pvp bonyth over dewalt. zhanhun seems weaker in pvz than pvt, weakest in pvp. xiaoshuai stronger in zvp weaker zvt, weakest zvz. mihu stronger tvp then zvt and weakest tvt. | ||
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CicadaSC
United States1899 Posts
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CruiseR
Poland4014 Posts
But generally its like this: Protoss: Dewalt, Bonyth (those two stand out above the rest imo), next is probably DragOn, BoA, Razz , maybe Tech, dxtr13 etc. Zerg: Sziky, CroSsie, JDConan, maybe eOnzerg or trutaCz (truta is inactive though, don't know if Sziky is as well), Stryker, then prob Julia Terran: TerrOr, Dandy, kogeT, maybe some US Terrans like gypsy, then probably Sterling, Nyoken Edit: @CicadaSC - if everyone went back from inactive i would estimate that number around 40. Hitting low S isn't that hard (problably some people can hit it and you never heard of them), the hard part is to maintain it, be solid S instead of high A / low S. I still would estimate that number as higher than 25, probably closer to 40. Regarding Artosis, I would rank foreign terrans as following (excl. Chinese): Terror, Dandy, kogeT, gypsy, Sterling, Nyoken, spx, Grimeboss, Tarson - in no particular order, as for sure better than Arty. Next spot would be Artosis (on par with players like UltrA, maybe MadiNho, WolFix etc) Every Terran I mentioned above is easily capable of hitting and maintaining S. And it's 13 players. If you extrapolate that to Zergs and Protosses, you already have 39 solid S players. And I for sure forgot about someone, so that number would be even higher than 40 ;p (another proof is every BSL tounrnament, in last Proleague there were 28 participants, all of them capable of hitting S, some players from Gosuleague would be too, and there are many that didn't play. The number is def higher than 40). | ||
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sophisticated
61 Posts
(I'd like to exclude variety streaming from this definition) | ||
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[sc1f]eonzerg
Belgium6830 Posts
On January 03 2025 07:38 sophisticated wrote: It is my understanding that pro means "professional", as in, "deriving their main source of income from playing the game". Are there any non-korean pros in this sense? (I'd like to exclude variety streaming from this definition) When do you say variety streaming do you mean streaming different games ? Or just people that make a living from streaming ? (Artosis / Tasteless ) ? Cuz in a sense every pro (koreans included) make a living from Streaming. All the income is coming from people donating to daily proleagues. ASL is not the money feeder to Koreans. I dont have knowledge about the chinese players but i remember when fengzi was the top dawg there Scan mention that he didnt make a living from SC either but he had a family business. I dont know about the new top players. I know they have a very active scene with multiple tourneys. But is it enough to make a living in China ? idk. | ||
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CruiseR
Poland4014 Posts
On January 03 2025 07:38 sophisticated wrote: It is my understanding that pro means "professional", as in, "deriving their main source of income from playing the game". Are there any non-korean pros in this sense? (I'd like to exclude variety streaming from this definition) SC is 27 years old. There aren’t many sponsored tournaments because sponsors prefer to support other, more popular games like SC2. My post excludes Korea and China (in Korea there are pros, and in China I lack this knowledge- probably there are some, but not many). There are no professional teams that provide regular salaries. While it’s possible to earn some money through tournaments (which are rare), I doubt there is a single 'true' professional player based on your definition. For example, players like Dewalt and Bonyth have earned around $30–50k in their careers, but as far as I know, it’s not their main source of income. Some players, like Artosis, make a living through commentating and streaming. However, according to your definition, there isn’t a single 'pro' player outside of KR/CN | ||
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sophisticated
61 Posts
On January 03 2025 07:51 [sc1f]eonzerg wrote: When do you say variety streaming do you mean streaming different games ? Or just people that make a living from streaming ? (Artosis / Tasteless ) ? I was unsure how to phrase it. I think it's not about playing different games, it's about what draws people to the stream and how skill factors into it. People watch proleague/ASL players because of their skill, therefore pro. As in, if the skill wasn't there, people would leave. People watch Artosis for reasons largely unrelated to his skill at the game, therefore not pro. But really I'm just making stuff up to classify the status quo such that someone like Artosis is not a pro but Shuttle is (who as I understand draws big numbers, but not primarily because of his skills). Because I associate "pro" with "professional" and it's just weird and frankly unfair to compare the literal professionals in ASL/proleague with what are ostensibly Amateurs (in the financial sense) in the foreign scene by putting them all under the umbrella term "pro". Cuz in a sense every pro (koreans included) make a living from Streaming. All the income is coming from people donating to daily proleagues. I would consider that money to be regular old prize money and proleague streaming therefore one of the simpler cases of a daily tourney that happens to be crowdfunded. But yeah, stuff gets murky because fundamentally what streamers do is entertainment and what "pro gamers" in the competitive sense do is well, compete, but as any of jinjin's "pros react" videos show, many of them bridge that gap quite effortlessly. On January 03 2025 07:53 CruiseR wrote: However, according to your definition, there isn’t a single 'pro' player outside of KR/CN That was what I was kind of going for, but it feels like gatekeeping. These "non-pros" compete in serious tournaments with thousands of dollars on the line, which is nothing to scoff at. (sorry for diverting the thread, OP) | ||
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RJBTVYOUTUBE
Netherlands1201 Posts
On January 03 2025 07:53 CruiseR wrote: SC is 27 years old. There aren’t many sponsored tournaments because sponsors prefer to support other, more popular games like SC2. My post excludes Korea and China (in Korea there are pros, and in China I lack this knowledge- probably there are some, but not many). There are no professional teams that provide regular salaries. While it’s possible to earn some money through tournaments (which are rare), I doubt there is a single 'true' professional player based on your definition. For example, players like Dewalt and Bonyth have earned around $30–50k in their careers, but as far as I know, it’s not their main source of income. Some players, like Artosis, make a living through commentating and streaming. However, according to your definition, there isn’t a single 'pro' player outside of KR/CN Koreans themselves don't actually refer to themselves as pros anymore because they think pretty strictly within the limits of "pro license, yes/no?". But that neglects the fact the environment has changed. Back then streaming for a living didn't exist. Players NEEDED teams and pro licenses and an income in order to be at a competitive level or to even compete. Now players can make a living and beyond by streaming. They are independent. They no longer need a team in order to compete. They can compete all on their own. They no longer need a license in order to compete either. It is an open qualifier. In that sense anyone who competes in official events, in proleagues, in weekly events or premier tournaments is now a pro player. This includes BSL players, this includes the Chinese competitors. So whether non-koreans are pros? not if you ask the koreans. are the currently active koreans pros? not if you ask the koreans. They call themselves Ex-pros or amateurs. But are they correct? perhaps not. | ||
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Navane
Netherlands2751 Posts
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jindi5
China194 Posts
Best player outside of South Korea TvT - No.1: Mihu No.2: XiaoXiaoMa/gypsy TvZ - No.1: Mihu No.2: XiaoXiaoMa TvP - No.1: Mihu No.2: - PvP - No.1: Dewalt No.2: Zhanhun/QiaoGege/Bonyth PvT - No.1: Zhanhun/Dewalt No.2: QiaoGege/Bonyth PvZ - No.1: Zhanhun No.2: QiaoGege/Dewalt ZvZ - No.1: Sziky No.2: XiaoShuai/Fengzi ZvT - No.1: XiaoShuai No.2: Sziky/Fengzi ZvP - No.1: XiaoShuai No.2: - | ||
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jindi5
China194 Posts
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jindi5
China194 Posts
【腾讯文档】中韩星际选手实力排名CHN&KOR SC BW Ranking·3.38&20241224 https://docs.qq.com/sheet/DTndhR2hYdlR4Z2x4?tab=BB08J2 | ||
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M3t4PhYzX
Poland4244 Posts
2. (P) Zhanhun --> [China] 3. (Z) XiaoShuai --> [China] 4. (P) Bonyth --> [Poland] 5. (P) Dewalt --> [Russia] | ||
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zelevin
United States316 Posts
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Biff The Understudy
France8026 Posts
Nothing to do with making money out of the game. I guess that’s one definition. | ||
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arb
Noobville17922 Posts
On January 04 2025 23:04 Navane wrote: Ironically Artosis is the only one making a living from streaming StarCraft. If only for his complete degenerate audience, but still due to his streaming the StarCraft. #BrownBrewCrew | ||
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